Deseret News | Reader comments: Gay-marriage supporters protest at Arizona LDS temple

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Gay-marriage supporters protest at Arizona LDS temple

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life goes on | 12:23 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Let it rest.

Live and let live | 12:42 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

I wish Mormons let gays live their lives in peace. It's not like gays were trying to change the Constitution to limit Mormon rights. It's a one-way street with the Mormons.

Anonymous | 1:11 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

I find it refreshing to find a religion that will stand up for its tenets regardless of secular pressures. I've made an appointment with the LDS missionaries to find out a bit more about their church.

Comments continue below

In good standing | 1:28 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

I wish gays would let Mormons live their lives in peace. It's not like the Mormons didn't use a defined constitutional process to partcipate in the vote. Maybe gays only believe in the law when it only serves them, not others.

double standard | 1:42 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

The real story isn't that the mormons supported the vote, the real story is that gays got so angry and have resorted to violence when they didn't get their way. That's coming from a group who has begged for tolerance and acceptance for years. Turns out they can beg for it but not grant it.

SkiUtah!! | 2:22 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

I have been impressed by the devotion of Utah members of the LDS Church to family values.
I am bringing the 120 employees of my East Coast firm to Utah for our Christmas Party. Our orginal plan was to go to San Francisco but we will spend our $480,000 in Utah instead.
really.

@Live and let live | 2:51 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Practice what you preach, it wasn't the 2 percent of Califonia citizens that are Mormons that voted yes that made the difference, it was the 52 percent of Califonians that voted yes, TWICE.
Now get over the fact that Americans don't want gay "marriages" and leave the Mormons alone.

Baladus | 2:51 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Protests against mormons are being stages continually accross the country. This was minute. How about hundreds of gays in Boise, how about IF gays and friends. If you insist on hate, I insist on telling you to stop it.

Tired of homosexuals... | 3:09 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Freedom of religion is a constitutional right, and LDS people have the right to stand up for what they believe in. Homosexuals should practice more tolerance for others' religious beliefs, and stop their bigotry. The media should stop reporting on the homosexual demonstrations, since the majority really don't want to hear it.

John | 3:21 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Contributing to the propositions against gay marriage is only contributing toward discrimination. I grew up believing the church worked to unite people together. What a shame the mormans and catholics put so much effort in keeping people apart. Gays havn't done enough yet to fight this discrimation that comes from bigotry!

Ruby | 3:35 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

This really isn't about hate or bigotry. It's about how people want to organize society. Some people happen to think that same-gender marriage is unwise.

The LDS church does unite people. Notice that they haven't said one antagonistic word against homosexuals or SSM supporters. They are just going about their business living what they believe is right.

They didn't call anyone "sinful" or "homo" for voting against prop 8. Those words weren't even used once in the coalition's campaign.

As for the lights. the more the merrier. they a symbol of Christ.

wish i could be there to see them and celebrate truth.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Old Geezer | 3:53 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

This was not one of the LDS church's great moments, and the victory will not be a lasting one. It will soon become a consensus that same-sex couples are just as worthy as different-sex couples, and as deserving of marriage. The enactment of Proposition 8 may actually hasten that day.

unity | 4:10 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Prop 8 was a shining moment for LDS.
Various denominations and races worked together against the odds to achieve a huge social good.

Tom | 4:47 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

This is definitely about bigotry. We've seen throughout history that bigots use religion to rationalize and justify discrimination.

One Human Family | 6:08 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

I wholeheartedly agree with a previous poster that said:

"I wish Mormons let gays live their lives in peace. It's not like gays were trying to change the Constitution to limit Mormon rights. It's a one-way street with the Mormons."

Props 8 and 102 were about prejudice. People can try to explain it away all they want, but that truth will always remain.

As people get to know gay people, they realize that they are no threat. My brother is gay and an amazing person and deserves all of the opportunities that I have. It is too bad that my church and many of my fellow members cannot get past prejudice.

To all you gay Mormons out there. Be yourself and do not allow other people to tell you that you somehow less worthy than they are!

@Tom | 6:28 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

It's not about bigorty, it's about morality and biology.

Cali Observer | 6:39 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

It's funny to see cry babies whine so much about people exercising their constitutional right to vote. Because the vote went against them, homosexuals are showing their true rainbow colors of intolerance, bigotry, and discrimination. They want to intimidate people to get their point across. Sob, sob, whine, whine, boo, hoo, hoo. Take it like a man and get over it! Well, take it like grown ups and get over it! The majority of Californians have spoken on the issue, TWICE.

manaen | 6:42 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Tom,
I agree wtih you 100% the bigots are using religion to rationalize and justify descrimination. Just look at the bigots rationalize their boycotts and pressure for people to lose their jobs who voted against them -- and the bigots use lists of members of a religion (mine/LDS) to target their victims. As you said, this definitely is about homosexuals' bigotry against any and all who oppose them.
- manaen

manaen | 6:52 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Isn't it interesting that those who would have destroyed the definition of marriage so that it included homosexual couples:
.
* Insisted that Prop 8's defeat would not have led to taxing the LDS Church and now they're calling for taxing the LDS Church.
.
* Say that this should be decided by the courts instead of by the will of the people in an election but they didn't say this before the election, calling for Prop 8 to be removed from the ballot as in the wrong venue, but assumed they'd win the election.
.
As one astute writer noted, they're innovations not only include a "right" to be included in the definition of marriage but also the right to win elections.
.
-manaen

Ruin | 7:23 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

They've ruined the word GAY, they've ruined the word RAINBOW, and now they want to ruin the word MARRIGE. They've ruined enough.

Nevada Lawyer says | 7:25 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Hate incidents are protected as freedom of speech and hate crimes are not. I'm not sure how long you should be allowed to linger around a building but the Church might want to file for a TPM (time place and manner) restriction of when it is OK to protest and where physically a line is drawn that cannot be crossed in the protest. Our news in Nevada has stated many times (not sure if it is accurate, but seems to be) that the reason Yes on 8 won that can be attributed to any one group specifically is the Black vote. Blacks preferred Yes on 8 70% to No on 8 30%. Other measures (such as race, sex, party affiliation, etc.) were all fairly close with 50% yes/50% no. So, I found that to be very interesting polling data.

Nevada Lawyer again | 7:26 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

There was also a Catholic Leader on our news in Nevada defending the Mormon church and that how wrong these protests are, as one church should not be singled out when most major religions supported Yes on 8. I'm a people lover and not an eternal damnation judger so I too will love all peoples. However, I have no tolerance for all of these protests that are not directed or located near City Hall areas. I feel the churches and temples are totally improper places to protest. I think the next move for Yes on 8 supporters should be to seek amendments to the Education Code and to exclude nuptial services as field trips. No child needs to attend any wedding on a class fieldtrip - children should attend weddings with their families period.

From Elton John | 7:29 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

"I don't want to be married. I'm very happy with a civil partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should have a civil partnership," John says. "The word 'marriage,' I think, puts a lot of people off.

"You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships."

Just me | 8:04 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

I am a member of the LDS church and I have many homosexual friends and coworkers. I accept them and I associate with them daily. We share our experiences and have a lot of good times together. However, I supported Prop 8. WHY? Because I believe that my Father in Heaven finds the homosexual lifestyle to be sinful.

I have many straight friends who also lead sinful lives but I love them just as well. But when the votes are counted you will always find me standing for what is right regardless of who my friends are or are not.

My homosexual friends can stop being my friends if they choose.. as that is their right. In the end.. I will stand with God.

I would rather align myself with God than with a popular opinion of mankind.

Billy Ray Valentine | 8:16 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

I wish not to teach my children that homosexuality is a proper form of conduct anymore than I want to protect the alcoholic, drug abuser, gambler, or any other harmful addiction that an addict of such dieses is faced with. The statistics of promiscuous behavior (resulting in STDï¿½s and other emotional traumas), speak volumes to the problems that such behavior warrants. Practice your addictions within the privacy of your own homes and do not try to influence the innocent to your corruptible ways!

straight woman... | 8:18 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

who understands the gay point of view. i have many friends and even relatives who are gay, i also grew up Mormon. i can't understand why the church asked people to spend money on this??? it doesn't hurt any religious or straight marriages. when the courts made it legal this summer they specifically said that religions didn't need to change their policies. so you could still legally keep gays from marrying in churches/temples.

my ancestors practiced polygamy in Nauvoo and wanted tolerance from their neighbors. Americans back then couldn't handle this "non-traditional" marriage so they burned their houses, tarred and feathered them and pushed them out of the country into Utah territory. they wanted TOLERANCE to do something they believed was OK with God.

fast forward 150 yrs and now Mormons are the ones being INTOLERANT--the keepers of "traditional" marriage. yeah right. prop 8 was unfair and the campaign was filled with lies. I cringed when the commercials came on.

Mormons need to look to their history and learn a lesson about TOLERANCE.

@Straight woman | 8:38 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Gays need to look at their history and learn a lesson about morality and biology.

Thinking | 9:06 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Straight woman, can we also have the church leaders who gave the impression that gay couples produce children attend these biology lessons?

Out numbered | 9:08 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

The protesters will always be out numbered. The LDS folks and many others can procreate and reproduce like minded family oriented supporters. The gay folks have to recruit over time because, well, they can't reproduce. So as time goes on, the pro family group will always out number any other group of anti man-woman marriage hate groups.

Donna K | 9:11 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

As a wife and mother I am sorry to see such anger and hate on both sides. I have nothing against anyone gay or straight wanting to honor their relationship by marrying.
No one is telling the LDS church they must perform any kind of marriage. Gays seem to just want to have all the civil rights that a civil marriage gives.
I have already explained to my children that there is nothing wrong with being gay if that is what you truly are. The only sin would be to pretend to be straight, get married to a heterosexual and try to have a family that would be a sham.
To have a successful marriage is hard enough; no matter what the flavor.

Taking the Lessons | 9:20 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

I have been taking the missionary lessons. I was impressed by what I heard. I am now so discouraged by seeing what the LDS church does to anyone who disagrees with it that I must now cancel the remaining appointments. Prop 8 seems such a minor thing to be so upset about. I wish the LDS church would be as upset and agresive with what is happening all over the world with hunger and disease. I must continue my search.

TOLERANCE | 9:21 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Its about time the "gay community" GETS IT, The "Behavior" is what was Voted Down. Most people don't accept this Immorial Behavior. By packaging the behavior as normal and puting it on diplay, only reminds people how repulsive there behavior is. And if they continue to use the TOLERANCE card then they are going to be very unhappy. As the gays get Judges to sanction their actions, the majority will continue to loose faith in our System of Government. What will protect our rights then? AK47? So be careful for what you ask for!

Question: Chicken or the Egg. Did hate crimes start to increase, before or after the gays started insisting that their behavior was normal and acceptible?

Maybe its the behavior that should be recognized for what it is.

Instead of TOLERANCE how about Traditional Rational behavior.

May GOD continue to bless our country.

re: Taking the lessons | 9:33 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

I guess you already had an agneda. It seems that the majority agreed with prop 8. I guess then, the majority of the people will start taking the lessons. Thats a net increase. If standing up for something that is right, is wrong, then you already have sabotaged the result.

Rex Arnett | 10:04 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

I would hardly call the protest as a group "out in force" as headlined in your paper. I live near the Mesa Temple and saw only a handful of protestors with less than a half dozen candles lit in the area they had vowed according to local press report. to fill the area with 25,000 protestors. Today's local newspaper very generously estimated the turn out at 150 persons supporting the call to action. Meanwhile the temple lighting ceremonies went off normally, except it seemed to me to be more crowded on the Temple ground than I have ever seen it. Just to set the record straight.

Question for LDS | 10:34 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Here's a question for Mormons who oppose the rights of gays based on the idea that marriage is between 1 man & 1 woman: what if conservative Christians pushed to make marriages in LDS temples illegal, based on the fact that some of these marriages are spiritually between 1 man & 2-plus women? Would you be for or against this? If you are against gays getting married in this scenerio, you should also be against LDS marriage in this potential question. It is the same concept. If you are against one, you should be against the other. If you are against one and for the other, you are being selfish. You support descrimination towards other groups who are different, but against descrimination towards yourself, when the descrimination is based on the same principal.

For the record, I am & would be against both these acts of descrination. All bigotry & descrimination is a thing that must go.

And what are you going | 10:38 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

to say when the decision is eventually reversed? Many places in the world have gay commitments allowed and it's only a matter of time. Let go of fear and start to practice love and tolerance for all.

Texas Belle | 11:22 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Intolerance cuts both ways. However, I have yet to hear of any Mormons being beaten, sexually assaulted or even killed because they don't personally practice gay marriage. These are fears many gay people have to live with every day - simply for being who they are.
From what I've heard, the main reason that many GLBT people in California are angry with LDS members in other states is because they deliberately influenced politics in another state that didn't even affect them. What's more, Prop 8 was specifically designed to take rights away - not to protect them. Imagine how the protests would look if Prop 8 had been designed to repeal the Civil Rights Act, for example. The groups involved would be different, but the feelings would be much the same.
Maybe we just need to have civil unions for everybody, and leave marriages to the church. That way, everyone is equal under the law, and those who are concerned about "the sanctity of marriage" don't have to worry about it. It's not ideal, I know; but sometimes compromise is the only workable solution.

Re: Donna K | 12:07 a.m. Nov. 30, 2008

You have explained to your children that there is nothing wrong with a gay lifestyle.
I have explained to my children that sex outside of marriage is a sin and that homosexual sex will never be condoned by God.
You teach your children that it would be a sin to put off same gender attraction and that if someone was able to do that, and be married, and have a family, that their life would be a sinful sham.
I have explained to my children that God intended for men and women to have families within the bonds of marriage. That all people have things that they struggle with, but with Gods help we can all overcome our weaknesses.

I don't want my children taught that a gay lifestyle is a legitimate lifestyle for society. It goes against the teachings of God.
God teaches to love everyone as he does.
God also taught that sin is not justified.
I don't hate people because they may be gay, but I can't stand silently while the foundation of civilization is under attack by those who would legitimize the gay lifestyle as a viable alternative.

RE: Question for LDS | 12:33 a.m. Nov. 30, 2008

"What if conservative Christians pushed to make marriages in LDS temples illegal, based on the fact that some of these marriages are spiritually between 1 man & 2-plus women? Would you be for or against this?"

OK, "Question," for about the 500 MILLIONTH time so far in this debate alone--THE LDS CHURCH NO LONGER PRACTICES POLYGAMY. Not since 1890! Warren Jeffs also has nothing to do with our church--it's a whole different sect.

Did you have a question that was NOT 118 years old that someone could help you with?

Info man | 1:05 a.m. Nov. 30, 2008

Your comment was thought provoking but you forgot some important points in your post.
Mormons and most all Christian denominations view homosexual sex as a grievous sin in the sight of God. You are asking a great deal from religion if you expect them to embrace a sin in the name of equality.
Marriage licenses only indicate that people are married for this life. This is the legal document for married couples.
If Gays want to create their own kind of religious ceremony and be married "spiritually" I'm sure that Mormons and other Christian denominations would have no problem with that. The problem arises when gays want to be recognized legally with a marriage certificate.
Our laws were created based on Christian-Judeo beliefs. Legal marriage between one man and one woman fits with these beliefs and has been part of our culture since --well, Adam and Eve.
I agree with you that all bigotry and discrimination must go. I just don't think that standing up for traditional marriage is bigoted or discriminatory.

info man | 1:12 a.m. Nov. 30, 2008

My comment above was directed to "question for LDS"

glenn | 2:17 a.m. Nov. 30, 2008

I suppose two gay people calling their union marriage doesn't hurt me the same as saying two trees in the forest are married doesn't hurt me or "two automobiles are married" doesn't hurt me----what does hurt is when a bed and breakfast in Vermont turns away business to alternative lifestyle couple and the business, therefore, in turn is sued in court, or in the future hotels and airlines being sued for not having the "same type of movies" for people in alternative lifestyles, or a school district being sued for not teaching another lifestyle according to correct language----lawsuits until the eye can see for anything under the sun that is not even-stevens-----that is where we will pay for all this nonsense. They say "what does it hurt?" but what they really mean is "I'm miserable in my life and now I will sue you for ever little offense and make you as miserable as I am."

Perhaps they keep | 5:13 a.m. Nov. 30, 2008

bringing it up because they know, (like I do) that you still believe in it's principles! And the sad thing is, many people don't know that the church actually does.

Tim | 6:13 a.m. Nov. 30, 2008

Now that sexuality minorities(wo dont add to the overpopulation crisis nor consummate polygamous marriages to under-age girls nor molest alter-boys) are successfully being bashed, will the rights of race-minorities be next?

William F. Butler | 10:19 a.m. Nov. 30, 2008

Question for Mormons:

Your question is comparing apples to oranges an if you don't understand why I'm saying that then it isn't worth explaining.

I like the "Elton John" | 10:26 a.m. Nov. 30, 2008

comment. If people are hung up on the word "marriage" then we should just use "Civil Unions" for gay people. Then perhaps we can get start to get over all of this intolerance. None of us are going to go away and we need to learn to live in peace.

One Human Family | 12:04 p.m. Nov. 30, 2008

To those that say they have lots of gay friends but still support Prop 8 and other anti-gay legislation, I have one thing to say. You are NOT their friend.

To Anonymous | 1:12 p.m. Nov. 30, 2008

Be aware that the missionaries will be very nice and cordial and may answer a lot of good questions. Also be aware that they will not tell you everything. These would slowly be disclosed as you joined and became "active". If you want to find these things out before you will have to talk to an open Mormon and do research at the Library etc. This is many people's mistake and complaint.

Anonymous | 2:21 p.m. Nov. 30, 2008

Let's see Mormons send their missionaries to homes all over the place expressing what they believe. Now gays go to the doors of Mormon temples expressing what they believe.....what's good for the goose is good for the gander

Anonymous | 2:32 p.m. Nov. 30, 2008

Heterosexuals, whether you are Mormon or not...just keep out of the lives of gays and lesbians. Our marriages have NO affect on yours. You should have NO right in dictating our lives. Yet Mormons you are the first to complain and whine if you even catch a whiff that someone is against you and you claim that you are martyrs. It is hatred like yours which promotes violence against gays and lesbians and makes it necessary for thousands of American gay and lesbian youth to be thrown out of their homes when they come out to their parents. If this is what your Mormon family values are...I want no part of them. And if you are afraid of gay marriage affecting your marriages then whose fault is it that 50% of hetero marriages end in divorce. Not our fault folks. Deal with your own issues of divorce, incest, rape, spouse abuse, etc before coming after us. I have heard none of you demand that gays should not be able to pay taxes. Our taxes pay for your childrens schools...so isn't that gay tainted money. That's right...Mormons will take anybody's money!!!

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