Reader comments
Draper mulls 'free speech zones' near new temple
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Anonymous | 2:17 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
This topic is a sticky wicket indeed. I am active LDS and a great lover of the
1st amendment. The framers of the constitution surely imagined a people who
would be civil and try not to disrupt the peaceful religious ceremonies of
others. That having been said shame on extremely noisy and obnoxious protesters
outside of this new temple who are obviously VIOLATING the idea os the 1st
ammend., and shame on the city officials for making restrictive zones which are
not constitutional.
Sigh | 2:27 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
More like No Free Speech Zones....
Free Speech | 5:19 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Free speech is a Constitutional Right
Quite clear Draper does not know we have a Constitution
This is a problem through out Utah
Ignorance has been elected into all the cities og Utah
The Constitution is a Federal Law
No laws shall me made to over throw these laws
Amendment 1
Freedom of speech
What is this $750.00 Fine
What is this Jail time?
This is Dictatorship
America is the land of the free
4500 Young men and women have died for freedom in Iraq???
Many more are injured and we have nuts in Draper that did not serve their country
I am sure Independance day was celebrated
( Fire Works )
Yet these people do not know the meaning of Independance
Free Speech is legal everywhere
The Police are the problem and the Judges and Prosecutors are ignorant of the law as well
Yes we want change and these people in Draper is not changing
Quite clear Draper does not know we have a Constitution
This is a problem through out Utah
Ignorance has been elected into all the cities og Utah
The Constitution is a Federal Law
No laws shall me made to over throw these laws
Amendment 1
Freedom of speech
What is this $750.00 Fine
What is this Jail time?
This is Dictatorship
America is the land of the free
4500 Young men and women have died for freedom in Iraq???
Many more are injured and we have nuts in Draper that did not serve their country
I am sure Independance day was celebrated
( Fire Works )
Yet these people do not know the meaning of Independance
Free Speech is legal everywhere
The Police are the problem and the Judges and Prosecutors are ignorant of the law as well
Yes we want change and these people in Draper is not changing
Comments continue below
Albert C. Montoya | 7:15 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
I am a card carrying member of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS. The courts
have previously ruled incorrectly. The entire U.S. is a free speech zone.
Ordinances may limit unpeaceful behavior but all people have a right to peaceful
assembly in a public right-of-way. People are responding to LDS involvement in
Prop 8. What will be our LDS response when communities establish "free
speech zones" for LDS missionaries to keep them off the streets?
craiger529 | 7:30 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
I have always thought that it should be requisite for those protesting to have
their " church " or meeting place on file so that that I can go picket
and shout insults at them when they are meeting. I am guessing that the Free
Speech war cry would not be nearly as well received at Mr. Barnards office or in
front of one of the " churches " that seem to always show up at any
L.D.S. function, as it is near Temple Square or other L.D.S. facilities.
Free speech for all? | 7:32 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Right. Aren't their severe resrictions on free speech near any and all
death factories, I mean abortion clinics? Try to use that free speech crap near
an abortion clinic and see what happens. That kind of speech is hate speech
right? Whereas the people protesting at places of worship is just citizens
exercising their constitutional rights.
david | 7:36 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
"Free speech is a Constitutional Right
Quite clear Draper does not know we have a Constitution"
Actually it's the protesters who don't understand the law. They often violate the rights of worshipers by blocking the entrance to temples, tresspassing on private property to show thier
hatred for the church. If they want to protest they need to do it on public property- not the property owned by the church. In this case I suspect city officals are aware of thier blantant disregard for the rights of LDS church members. They are actully upholding the constitution by providing these hate mongers with a place to gather.
Quite clear Draper does not know we have a Constitution"
Actually it's the protesters who don't understand the law. They often violate the rights of worshipers by blocking the entrance to temples, tresspassing on private property to show thier
hatred for the church. If they want to protest they need to do it on public property- not the property owned by the church. In this case I suspect city officals are aware of thier blantant disregard for the rights of LDS church members. They are actully upholding the constitution by providing these hate mongers with a place to gather.
Anonymous | 7:39 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Yes this is the US with Free Speech but there are LIMITS placed on free speech
everywhere to protect others. Private property is protected. Limits to what
you can say in crowds are in place. And HATE speech is not allowed.
That's the problem here. This is what needs to be limited is the hate
speech and religious bigotry. The minority homosexuals have turned to agressive
hate speech, religious bigotry, and intimidation, and that should not be
tolerated.
And don't try to give me this lame excuse that the "Mormons started it...they limited our rights." That just not accurate. Mormons couldn't do anything in California by themselves. When I see you protesting Catholics and Jews and Hindu and blacks and hispanics and just plain old Lakers games...then maybe I might believe this is anything but religious bigotry. Because in reality, it was the people of California who twice passed this law...not the Mormons.
Yep, homosexuals have the right to protest. But I also have the right to be able to go to the temple and not have to hear profanities and religious hate speech. The city is looking for a balance between those freedoms.
And don't try to give me this lame excuse that the "Mormons started it...they limited our rights." That just not accurate. Mormons couldn't do anything in California by themselves. When I see you protesting Catholics and Jews and Hindu and blacks and hispanics and just plain old Lakers games...then maybe I might believe this is anything but religious bigotry. Because in reality, it was the people of California who twice passed this law...not the Mormons.
Yep, homosexuals have the right to protest. But I also have the right to be able to go to the temple and not have to hear profanities and religious hate speech. The city is looking for a balance between those freedoms.
Double standard for gays | 7:56 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Next time the gays have their lovely little gay rights parade, perhaps the
Westboro Baptist Church should arrive to practice their right to freedom of
speech. The peace-loving gays won�t be so happy about
people being able to practice their right to freedom of speech then. Of course
everything would be different then.
Free Speech -What? | 8:04 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Free Speech, here I though all this time that our soliders were dying in Iraq
for oil and George Bush's lies? Man this is getting confussing.
Jason | 8:06 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
So, I guess the big question is who has the most rights? The ones who think they
should be able to yell and protest anywhere or the person who wants the right of
reverent worship and peace?
Contstitutional right | 8:10 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
What about my right to peaceful assembly. What about my right to walk down a
sidewalk or drive down a street?
If you've seen the area around this temple, there is no where to assemble that is not on the street or sidewalk or private property.
If you've seen the area around this temple, there is no where to assemble that is not on the street or sidewalk or private property.
So it's O.K. | 8:11 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
So we just ignore these clowns who burn The Book Of Mormon, shout obscenities,
display scandalous placards, vandalize our private property, and desecrate
anything which is sacred to LDS members? I guess that is our only choice, just
ignore. Matters not that none of our pro 8 tactics came even close to the sort
of vile and disgusting tactics utilized by these sore losers. Even before
election day. But when have followers of Satan ever displayed any sort of
decorum or public decency in trying to promote their agenda. Their message is
clear: "give us your children so we can pervert them too".
long time member | 8:12 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Free Speech rights come with responsibility just as all rights do. Civil
protesters, using the broad context of the word 'civil', have the
responsibility to allow worshipers free access, to go and come without
impediment. If they obeyed this civil rule there would be no need for
restricted zones.
Free speech doesn't need to be obnoxious and disrespectful to get its pont across. It is actually more effective that way, I believe.
Free speech doesn't need to be obnoxious and disrespectful to get its pont across. It is actually more effective that way, I believe.
Anonymous #2 | 8:13 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
In the present world "situation", people of culture, virtue and humble
traditional views had better resolve to understand their Bible and realize the
fact that anti-God is here, is developing as per prophesy and Christians must
strengthen their personal determination to witness for our Savior in the midst
of chaos and growing evil. Nowhere in the Bible are we told it would be easy.
When we saw our "nation of laws" began to crack apart, we invited chaos in and guess what? It`s here! Our laws mean little anymore... (witness the long expensive trial and ORDERS to one Tom Green upon release from prison. Everyone inside of Utah and outside watched all that. Now a couple of years later the "law" has (typically for the times) "disappeared"! Tom Green has now fathered 2 more babies "unlawfully" with 2 law-forbidden "wives" and absolutely nothing will result of it. We HAVE no more LAW to rely on. Chaos can be expected to grow and real God-fearing people had better strengthen themselves from within. It is all we have left. The external world is lost and gone.......
When we saw our "nation of laws" began to crack apart, we invited chaos in and guess what? It`s here! Our laws mean little anymore... (witness the long expensive trial and ORDERS to one Tom Green upon release from prison. Everyone inside of Utah and outside watched all that. Now a couple of years later the "law" has (typically for the times) "disappeared"! Tom Green has now fathered 2 more babies "unlawfully" with 2 law-forbidden "wives" and absolutely nothing will result of it. We HAVE no more LAW to rely on. Chaos can be expected to grow and real God-fearing people had better strengthen themselves from within. It is all we have left. The external world is lost and gone.......
Curious reader | 8:14 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
To Albert C. Montoya: You mean there already aren't restrictions against
missionaries? Ever tried to tract in Beverly Hills (let alone just walk the
sidewalk)?
As I see it, the main problem is that the "protests" aren't peaceful but are quite disruptive and filled with angry people who want to inflict damage or harm to others. The right is "peaceably to assemble."
To Free Speech: This is most certainly not a "dictatorship" situation. Your lack of world history is horribly showing. America used to be the land of the free, but the Draper Council is not the cause of the demise of freedom in this country. My religious beliefs are attacked by government very frequently. Symbols of my religious belief are belittled and dismantled from the public square all the time, and those symbols have been there from the start of the country and before. So, we are not free. It's just an illusion.
As I see it, the main problem is that the "protests" aren't peaceful but are quite disruptive and filled with angry people who want to inflict damage or harm to others. The right is "peaceably to assemble."
To Free Speech: This is most certainly not a "dictatorship" situation. Your lack of world history is horribly showing. America used to be the land of the free, but the Draper Council is not the cause of the demise of freedom in this country. My religious beliefs are attacked by government very frequently. Symbols of my religious belief are belittled and dismantled from the public square all the time, and those symbols have been there from the start of the country and before. So, we are not free. It's just an illusion.
@Double Standard | 8:20 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
There are ALWAYS groups like the Westboro Baptist Church at Gay Pride parades -
it is expected, actually. So, I don't understand your comment. I guess you
are just uninformed, like most Americans are on so many aspects of their
country, their government and their neighbors. Pretty sad.
Nice | 8:32 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
This is the same city counsel that would not let a Deseret Industries Center in
the city limits.
Cats | 8:34 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Free Speech-what?: That was a really SILLY blog.
cb | 8:40 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
The same people who want free speech with no restrictions are the first to limit
freedom of religion. You have to follow the whole first amendment.
Oklahoma Mormon | 8:55 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
This is great. I don't believe in Baptists. Can I protest outside their
buildings?
So it's O.K. | 8:56 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
A large gathering should be allowed to assemble without being interrupted by
protestors penetrating a specific perimeter. Only makes common sense to keep
away protestors whose tactics are intentionally inflammatory and provocative.
Sure let'em protest, let'em have "their" space, but civil
libertarians who don't want their rights trampled on don't want their
bodies trampled on either. Use a bit of common sense here boys and girls. Not
every one is going to play nice as we have seen since election day. Draper
Temple open house will likely be the most immense security nightmare ever
witnessed by the Church to date.
Robert | 9:04 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
It is perfectly permissible for any government to create free speech zones.
I was in Los Angeles when the Democratic Party held its convention there. A zone for protesters was set up behind a chain link fence in the parking lot of the Staples Center, where protesters were permitted to protest. The city did not allow protests anywhere else around the arena during the convention. That way, the protesters could see and be seen, and could make all noise they wanted, but could not disrupt the convention.
Similarly, in Salt Lake City, during the brouhaha about the LDS Church Plaza, Mayor Anderson, a lawyer himself, was busy drawing up maps for "free speech zones" in the plaza before the city and the church resolved their differences concerning ownership.
I'm sure Draper city officials are getting lots of legal advice and will be right with the law in the end.
I was in Los Angeles when the Democratic Party held its convention there. A zone for protesters was set up behind a chain link fence in the parking lot of the Staples Center, where protesters were permitted to protest. The city did not allow protests anywhere else around the arena during the convention. That way, the protesters could see and be seen, and could make all noise they wanted, but could not disrupt the convention.
Similarly, in Salt Lake City, during the brouhaha about the LDS Church Plaza, Mayor Anderson, a lawyer himself, was busy drawing up maps for "free speech zones" in the plaza before the city and the church resolved their differences concerning ownership.
I'm sure Draper city officials are getting lots of legal advice and will be right with the law in the end.
Himself | 9:07 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
"Draper Councilman Bill Colbert, who has seen capital city protests
firsthand"
Bill has been to Salt Lake. Makes him kind of suspect, he could be tainted.
I think the idea of a 'Free speech zone' in Draper is a good start. Then we can start adding the rest of the constitution block by block.
Bill has been to Salt Lake. Makes him kind of suspect, he could be tainted.
I think the idea of a 'Free speech zone' in Draper is a good start. Then we can start adding the rest of the constitution block by block.
Cry- babies ! | 9:12 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
I think its thoughtful to consider a designated section for HATE mongers to
assemble and bask in their misery. I think the city counsel could have provided
comfortable seating for them, food, hot coco, and port- potties. But then there
still would be complainers that its never enough.
Gretzky | 9:24 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
if ANY of you have been to the draper temple site you will take note that it is
a suburban neighborhood and i seriously doubt the neighbors and residents want
anyone up at all hours of the day and night marching around with picket signs,
dressed up like the devil, desecrating sacred clothing, and/or shouting
obscenities around their children and homes. It is so interesting and in fact
weird that folks would act like they do during opportunities for interested
individuals to witness a beautiful building at an open house.
Double standard again! | 9:36 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
WBC must not make as much noise and run around without any clothes on like the
gays at gay parades. Perhaps that's why they don't make the news. Only
the sicko and perverted gays make more noise in order to be noticed and make the
nightly news. Watching the news is the way most people have of keeping up on
what happens at gay parades. Normal people wouldn't attend such a sick
event so it isn't a matter of not being informed, its just that the gays
make the most noise in order to receive coverage. Coverage that is repulsive to
everyone else. They must repent or roast.
Bowling for Dissidents | 10:05 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
How about free speech zones and the freeways coinciding? The lines are already
drawn.
Scott, Iowa | 10:09 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Protest is something Christianity should be used to by now. Since Jesus, people
have always protested Christianity in one way or another. Jesus himself was
protested against. Did he not say, "Remember the word that I said unto you,
The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will
also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours
also." (John 15:20). There will always be malcontents.
Robo | 10:24 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
It's simple really, your rights end where mine begin.
Bill | 10:27 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Pay Attention you so called Free Speech adovates there are abosolutely
conditions to protests. The Supreme Court has up held numerous times the right
to buffer of protest zones. Even at the last National Conventions and Winter
Olympics.
The problem with the recent protests over prop 8
is the so called Gay Rights Activist are actually acting agressively and with threats and violence.
This is a Fact check their blog sites. This is not freedom of speech it is domestic violence againts others so to intimdate people exercising the right to vote. This is no more than Hate Crimes against Protected Class Religion. Google Freedom Of Religion Act.
What do you think would happen if Pro Prop 8 sent a listt out to the public of contributors and accuse them of being gay and encourage people to harass them target their business and places of wordhip or homes. The Media and ACLU would declare War.
Face it there is an open double standard in the world today. Stand up and call it what it is Domestic Terrorism. The Truth will make you free or in America reverse Hate crimes under the Banner of Freedom of Speech and Hate!
The problem with the recent protests over prop 8
is the so called Gay Rights Activist are actually acting agressively and with threats and violence.
This is a Fact check their blog sites. This is not freedom of speech it is domestic violence againts others so to intimdate people exercising the right to vote. This is no more than Hate Crimes against Protected Class Religion. Google Freedom Of Religion Act.
What do you think would happen if Pro Prop 8 sent a listt out to the public of contributors and accuse them of being gay and encourage people to harass them target their business and places of wordhip or homes. The Media and ACLU would declare War.
Face it there is an open double standard in the world today. Stand up and call it what it is Domestic Terrorism. The Truth will make you free or in America reverse Hate crimes under the Banner of Freedom of Speech and Hate!
Brian is a complete moron | 10:32 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
According to the loser Brian Barnard, "Under the First Amendment, the
entire country is a free speech zone," and according to the same loser
"Free speech is supposed to be everywhere � government
property, all public streets, all public parks � those are
all free speech zones. Restrictions have to be very limited, very finely
tuned."
This guy calls himself a lawyer and yet he doesn't know that the Courts have ruled that the government has a right to regulate the time, place, and manner of speech without abridging our freedom of speech. Our freedom of speech doesn't give us an unlimited right to speak wherever we want. The chambers of the House of Representatives and the chambers of the U.S. Senate are also government property but that doesn't mean that anyone can walk into the building, go onto the floor of the House or Senate and start speaking whenever Congress is in session.
Brian needs to get a brain and go back to law school since its clear he's an ignoramus.
This guy calls himself a lawyer and yet he doesn't know that the Courts have ruled that the government has a right to regulate the time, place, and manner of speech without abridging our freedom of speech. Our freedom of speech doesn't give us an unlimited right to speak wherever we want. The chambers of the House of Representatives and the chambers of the U.S. Senate are also government property but that doesn't mean that anyone can walk into the building, go onto the floor of the House or Senate and start speaking whenever Congress is in session.
Brian needs to get a brain and go back to law school since its clear he's an ignoramus.
To DS Again | 10:34 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Your response proved the other posters point.
I was invited by some gay friends to attend this year's parade in SLC. There wasn't more 'skin' displayed than you see in Vitoria Secret TV ads or in the Sports Illustrated bathing suit edition.
What really struck my wife and I was the anti-gay protestors. They yelled and screamed things that offended me as a Christian and I couldn't help but see the irony in that they all professed to be Christians themselves.
The Christ that I follow taught love, to not judge your fellow man and to "Come, follow me." It's difficult to understand the hate and vitriol expressed by people that claim to be disciples of Christ.
I was invited by some gay friends to attend this year's parade in SLC. There wasn't more 'skin' displayed than you see in Vitoria Secret TV ads or in the Sports Illustrated bathing suit edition.
What really struck my wife and I was the anti-gay protestors. They yelled and screamed things that offended me as a Christian and I couldn't help but see the irony in that they all professed to be Christians themselves.
The Christ that I follow taught love, to not judge your fellow man and to "Come, follow me." It's difficult to understand the hate and vitriol expressed by people that claim to be disciples of Christ.
Texas Mormon | 10:41 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
I think it may be instructive to look at the whole 1st amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an eetablishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
Interesting that the framers of the constitution treated assembly separate from free speech and stressed peaceable assembly. I think some of what I have seen in the media have been anything but "peaceable".
"Congress shall make no law respecting an eetablishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
Interesting that the framers of the constitution treated assembly separate from free speech and stressed peaceable assembly. I think some of what I have seen in the media have been anything but "peaceable".
There's always a double standard | 10:42 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Double standard for gays,
"Next time the gays have their lovely little gay rights parade, perhaps the Westboro Baptist Church should arrive to practice their right to freedom of speech. The peace-loving gays won�t be so happy about people being able to practice their right to freedom of speech then. Of course everything would be different then."
You should watch the YouTube video of a group of Christians who gathered to sing peaceful hymns who were physically and sexually assaulted by a group of gay thugs being escorted out of the Castro District of San Francisco by police in order to protect them.
They said things "don't come back," "we will follow them all the way to their doors," and other hateful comments. They made it pretty clear that they thought that the Castro District was their property. Never mind that it was public place. That is different. We never see Mormons storm the Prop. 8 protesters so that the police needs to escort them out of downtown Salt Lake as Mormons shout "don't come back, "we will follow them all the way to their doors." The difference? We respect the rule of law while they are tyrants.
"Next time the gays have their lovely little gay rights parade, perhaps the Westboro Baptist Church should arrive to practice their right to freedom of speech. The peace-loving gays won�t be so happy about people being able to practice their right to freedom of speech then. Of course everything would be different then."
You should watch the YouTube video of a group of Christians who gathered to sing peaceful hymns who were physically and sexually assaulted by a group of gay thugs being escorted out of the Castro District of San Francisco by police in order to protect them.
They said things "don't come back," "we will follow them all the way to their doors," and other hateful comments. They made it pretty clear that they thought that the Castro District was their property. Never mind that it was public place. That is different. We never see Mormons storm the Prop. 8 protesters so that the police needs to escort them out of downtown Salt Lake as Mormons shout "don't come back, "we will follow them all the way to their doors." The difference? We respect the rule of law while they are tyrants.
Professor | 10:45 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
It's interesting that when Mormons build something of value the American
Association of Selfishness asks for space out in the gutter so it can
demonstrate the 1st Amendment is alive and well.
The Barnard Double Standard | 10:48 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Every time Brian Barnard gets the chance, he sticks his nose into another case
where he can get media exposure. I am all for freedom of speech and freedom to
assemble but, honestly, Barnard is about only about publicity for Barnard.
Several years back, he was driving down the street and while at a stop light, saw a personalized license plate that he deemed offensive. He then turned around and sued the state to prevent them from issuing license plates that he thought were offensive- he won. Doesn't THAT stifle free speech?
Barnard's a class act. He's all for freedom of speech, as long as he doesn't disagree with your kind of speech.
Several years back, he was driving down the street and while at a stop light, saw a personalized license plate that he deemed offensive. He then turned around and sued the state to prevent them from issuing license plates that he thought were offensive- he won. Doesn't THAT stifle free speech?
Barnard's a class act. He's all for freedom of speech, as long as he doesn't disagree with your kind of speech.
Rights | 10:49 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Aren't there already laws to prevent Destruction of property, Vandalism,
Inciting a riot and disturbing the peace?
Why not enforce those laws?
I don't understand why a new law needs to be made to create free speech zones. As one writer said, the entire USA is a free speech zone.
Why not enforce those laws?
I don't understand why a new law needs to be made to create free speech zones. As one writer said, the entire USA is a free speech zone.
Brian Barnyard? | 11:07 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Guy sounds like a complete jerk. Let's help publicize Barnyard since he
wants the attention.
His parents are also losers | 11:16 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
To: "Brian Barnyard?"
I agree. Maybe a protest outside of his home and law office will result in him coming to our defense and saying that all of America's a free speech zone.
Maybe after the 10th night and 11th day in a row he will sue the government to make sure that they don't stop us from harassing him.
When he goes to eat at the local diner we should follow him and change our signs to "as long as Brian Barnard is your customer we will protest outside of your business" and when he is told not to come back because he isn't welcome anymore then he might sue the government to make sure that we have the right to exercise our freedom of speech anywhere we choose since all of America is a free speech zone.
Or maybe Brian is just an idiot who doesn't know what he is talking about because his parents raised a moron. It's obvious Brian's mommy and daddy are losers like their son. I have the right to say this outside their homes too since I have freedom of speech anywhere in America.
I agree. Maybe a protest outside of his home and law office will result in him coming to our defense and saying that all of America's a free speech zone.
Maybe after the 10th night and 11th day in a row he will sue the government to make sure that they don't stop us from harassing him.
When he goes to eat at the local diner we should follow him and change our signs to "as long as Brian Barnard is your customer we will protest outside of your business" and when he is told not to come back because he isn't welcome anymore then he might sue the government to make sure that we have the right to exercise our freedom of speech anywhere we choose since all of America is a free speech zone.
Or maybe Brian is just an idiot who doesn't know what he is talking about because his parents raised a moron. It's obvious Brian's mommy and daddy are losers like their son. I have the right to say this outside their homes too since I have freedom of speech anywhere in America.
Battman | 11:29 a.m. Nov. 27, 2008
LDS trying to take away more rights of those who do not think like them. Wow,
the LDS need to stop it already.
Re: battman | 12:43 p.m. Nov. 27, 2008
Wow! your smart!
Tom in Lazybrook | 1:54 p.m. Nov. 27, 2008
So I guess the Church Office Building members are ordering the Mormon leaders of
Draper to ban speech on public streets critical of their attempts to take away
all civil rights for Gay people.
FREEDOM OF RELIGION | 4:38 p.m. Nov. 27, 2008
YOU ARE FORGETTING ANOTHER ONE BOYS!
Bob | 5:10 p.m. Nov. 27, 2008
I have no problem with people speaking their minds, whether it's
intelligent or not. However, their freedom of speech ends when they violate the
rights of people to peacefully assemble and their freedom of religion.
Why does one right trump another right? Why do ACLU lawyers get to decide for the nation what rights are priorities?
We should start marching and yelling at the ACLU lawyers at their homes and work, and see how much they enjoy freedom of speech.
There is a huge difference from people foaming at the mouth yelling profanities at you, and having someone go on tv and explain why they dislike a group of people.
I have the right to defend myself and live in peace. If a protester comes at me I will end it there.
Why does one right trump another right? Why do ACLU lawyers get to decide for the nation what rights are priorities?
We should start marching and yelling at the ACLU lawyers at their homes and work, and see how much they enjoy freedom of speech.
There is a huge difference from people foaming at the mouth yelling profanities at you, and having someone go on tv and explain why they dislike a group of people.
I have the right to defend myself and live in peace. If a protester comes at me I will end it there.
Californian #1 @94131 | 6:02 p.m. Nov. 27, 2008
What could be more public than a national park? I often go to Muir Woods, a
redwood forest near San Francisco that feels like a temple or cathedral. Just
outside the gate is a space with an official sign: "First Amendment
Area." It goes on to say the space is provided for people to express their
First Amendment rights. As you enter the park, there are signs identifying
"quiet zones" (lowered voices, no phones, etc.) so visitors can enjoy
the beauty of the redwood groves.
Isn't my freedom of expression limited because I am asked to limit my ranting to that one space and turn off my cell phone in the redwood groves just so other people can enjoy peace and quiet?
Remember, your tax dollars pay for this park.
Police often keep demonstrations and counter-demonstrations apart to maintain the peace. The public's right to travel, use streets or parks, and access public and private facilities is protected. Nobody's freedom of expression is abridged, unless they consider confrontation, spitting, or physical assault essential to their freedom of expression.
All of America is a "free-speech" zone, but all of America is not necessarily a "disturb-the-peace" zone.
Isn't my freedom of expression limited because I am asked to limit my ranting to that one space and turn off my cell phone in the redwood groves just so other people can enjoy peace and quiet?
Remember, your tax dollars pay for this park.
Police often keep demonstrations and counter-demonstrations apart to maintain the peace. The public's right to travel, use streets or parks, and access public and private facilities is protected. Nobody's freedom of expression is abridged, unless they consider confrontation, spitting, or physical assault essential to their freedom of expression.
All of America is a "free-speech" zone, but all of America is not necessarily a "disturb-the-peace" zone.
Amazed in Morgan | 7:10 p.m. Nov. 27, 2008
The mormon church deemed it appropriate to take rights away from gays and now
wants to take free spreech away for thos who oppose them. Very, very sad. Now
this is why a mormon will never be president, utah is mocked and mormons have no
respect. Think highly of youselves if you must but those outside your faith
think very little of your faith and ho you conduct yourself.
Anonymous | 8:05 p.m. Nov. 27, 2008
"You should watch the YouTube video of a group of Christians who gathered
to sing peaceful hymns who were physically and sexually assaulted by a group of
gay thugs being escorted out of the Castro District of San Francisco by police
in order to protect them."
I watched it. The woman speaking said she knew she would become a martyr for Christ.
These people enter the Castro where the climate is hostile, they block the street singing and this was timed to occurred after the just before the bars closed.
They got the expected result.
I'm free to go to Telegraph Ave in Oakland and wear a "Obama is out first affirmative action president too. I know, the police won't make it in time to save me.
I would never wear a 49er t-shirt to a Raiders game.
I watched it. The woman speaking said she knew she would become a martyr for Christ.
These people enter the Castro where the climate is hostile, they block the street singing and this was timed to occurred after the just before the bars closed.
They got the expected result.
I'm free to go to Telegraph Ave in Oakland and wear a "Obama is out first affirmative action president too. I know, the police won't make it in time to save me.
I would never wear a 49er t-shirt to a Raiders game.
Californian #1 @94131 | 8:15 p.m. Nov. 27, 2008
"The mormon church deemed it appropriate to take rights away from
gays...."
No one took any rights from gays. The supposed right to marry was an ill-gotten gain in the first place, granted by a misguiuded court in defiance of the will of the voters. The majority of California voters reiterated the will of the people that we already expressed in 2001 and that the court violated earlier this year.
The "right" to marry anyone of your choice has never been an unconditional right granted by any society. All organized societies have to have some kind of order. Among the things I cannot do is marry my own parent, child, sibling, a person who is not of age to consent to marry, a person who is mentally incapable of forming the intent to marry, or any non-human entity.
No amount of agitation or activism will make any of those things normal or natural.
And no amount of agitation or activism is going to turn the people's refusal to uproot a basic social institution into "discrimination."
No one took any rights from gays. The supposed right to marry was an ill-gotten gain in the first place, granted by a misguiuded court in defiance of the will of the voters. The majority of California voters reiterated the will of the people that we already expressed in 2001 and that the court violated earlier this year.
The "right" to marry anyone of your choice has never been an unconditional right granted by any society. All organized societies have to have some kind of order. Among the things I cannot do is marry my own parent, child, sibling, a person who is not of age to consent to marry, a person who is mentally incapable of forming the intent to marry, or any non-human entity.
No amount of agitation or activism will make any of those things normal or natural.
And no amount of agitation or activism is going to turn the people's refusal to uproot a basic social institution into "discrimination."
Intolerance | 9:03 p.m. Nov. 27, 2008
The only reason this is an issue is because they know the kind of sludge that
typically show up at these things. Especially in today's climate. It will
be hostile and completely disrespectful. I'm in California and I hear it
all the time in the Bay Area. If they were going to peacefully demonstrate,
fine. But that will not be the case, hence the discussion. Let the people have
their religious freedom without all the intolerant persecutors.
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