Deseret News | LDS have big image problem

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LDS have big image problem

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Lapsed Mormon | 11:48 a.m. Nov. 24, 2008

I have lived in many parts of the US, and Europe, and where ever I go I find that Church members are too insular and have too little interaction with members of the community at large. When the majority of one's activities are Church related, and/or with other members, there is only marginal exposure of Mormons, and their beliefs and values, to others. It is time for the Church to encourage members to reach out and become a larger part of the world that they live in.

John Pack Lambert | 11:49 a.m. Nov. 24, 2008

I agree with the 6:46 commentator that we need to follow the counsel of Church leaders more.
I would urge people to go and read the talks by President Hinckley and Elder Ballard on being better neighbors.
THat said, people need to realize if they maintain hate for their LDS neighbors over past events, the problem is in themselves. Many of the people who offended you are dead in some cases, unless you forgive them, the cankering feeling of dislike will not die until you do.
We all need to be more willing to forgive those around us.

manifesto | 11:55 a.m. Nov. 24, 2008

so can we take this to be the Mormon "manifesto" of how they are going to gain "acceptance of their behaviors" among "mainstream Americans?" Oh thatï¿½s right we are suppose to save these pointless charges for people we donï¿½t like. My bad. Hey, do I still get the free toster?

Comments continue below

whitie | 11:56 a.m. Nov. 24, 2008

i love how people have this crazy idea that mormons have to conform to any sort of public perception. hello world....anything that has ever been said from any prophet ( Old testiment, new testiment, 1800s, 2000s have never been a real big hit with the masses. it isnt' expected to be. It saddens me to think the author of the article would feel that it is the job of the church to win some popularity contest. I've always enjoyed the fact that mormons AREN'T like everyone else... have people forgotten simple phrases like certain people will find the truth hard to hear...and prophets will have no respect in their own country. I can't believe people are lame enough to think it is about pleasing the masses...lame lame lame

To John Pack Lambert | 11:56 a.m. Nov. 24, 2008

WHY do you feel it is YOUR obliation to PONTIFICATE about EVERY post on this board?

John Pack Lambert | 11:56 a.m. Nov. 24, 2008

I agree with 7:57 that there needs to be resistration to post, but I would say no particular group has a corner on the market of hateful comments.
I have seen many sincere and helpfu comments made by people of many faiths and of no faith at all.
I have also seen comments made by church members that were of a nature that Elder Ballard said should never be made.
So, I think it is too much to expect an end of hate from those of other faiths until we remove the hate from in ourselves.

JPL @ 11:10 | 11:59 a.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Actually - in regards to Mr. Hardy and his diploma, he finished his last "Church History" class via independent study. According to BYU Policy, independent study students are not bound by the BYU Honor Code in that they are not on campus. So, he was not in violation.

Also, I know Mr. Hardy and he did not "purposely set up" any situation, he just wanted to finish his degree and that process started long before any issue came up with the calendar.

Senhor Tambor | 12:02 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

>>when their mormon candidate fell quickly by the wayside, after a landslide rejection of Mitt Romney.<<

Romney's defeat was not a rejection of Mormonism. Romney's defeat was a rejection of Weaselism, Opportunism, and More-Of-The-Same-Idiocy-For-Policy-ism.

John Pack Lambert | 12:04 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

To Outsider,
I am appreciative of your comments.
At least during this month in general comments by believing members have been pro-Catholic as far as I hae seen. I do have to admit the people who act like Bishop Weigand's comments were unique ignore the fact that Catholics and Latter-day Saints worked together to pass pro-marriage legislation in Hawaii in 1996 and that LDS Humanitarian Services has paired with Catholic Charities on numerous projects for years.
I am with you that many Christian Churches do not speak ill of other religions. The missionaries where I live here in Michigan were recently invited by a minister at another Church (It was a protestant denomination, I think Presbyterian, but I might be wrong) to come in and explain to a youth group what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes.
There are groups (Westboro Baptist Church is the one that comes to mind the quickest) that clearly hate the LDS Church, and since the most vocal tend to also be the smallest, in a count of Christian denominations who hate Latter-day Saints, or Catholics for that matter, their number will far exceed their percentage of believers.

Jim | 12:06 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

People who feel they have to "please others" are just weak. they stand for nothing because they are constantly adjusting their stances to fit the mood. It is really sad that there are poeple out there thinking that anyone with some convictions should actually adjust theirs for the sake of being liked. Some people may like you, some people won't like you no matter what you do, and nothing is going to change that. At least if you stick by your guns there will be people who may not agree with you, but they'll respect you more for standing firm in your beliefs rather than thinking you have to re-invent your image to be more popular. we aren't in high school folks. Its ok if everyone doesn't like you. To rephrase in my own words the idea of an old pioneer leader. Half the people who read or hear thing about mormons they don't like won't believe it anyways, and half of the people who do believe it are of no account anyways. Lets' get back to keeping our eye on christlike activity and stop worrying about popularity

Frank | 12:07 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

The church has always had an image problem. I cant remember a day or have never read of a day where the church didnt have an image problem.

Recovered Mormon | 12:08 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

I left the church over thirty years ago and am a fully recovered Mormon. But half of my brothers and sisters are still active members. Their whole lives are centered around their ward. The church takes up all their time with meetings and assignments and they only socialize with friends who are all ward members. I find it sad that they have no idea of what a cocoon they live in. My other brother and sister who also left the church years ago seem to have much happier and well balanced lives without all the hangups of the other three.

Glenn | 12:12 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

If every neighborhood in the world had a bar-b-que each week, and all were invited, there would never ever be contention. If everyone loved their jobs, this would be a perfect world. If all families were super close and best friends, this world would be ideal. If all religions could get along, we would live in paradise. But this is a fallen world. And we all struggle with the balance between juggling family, work, school and community. As LDS I apologize if we are not friendly. At times we can be so into our family that we are not friendly. But there are 24 hours in a day and we can't always be there for our families and everyone else. We are sorry. The family is being ripped apart and we have to love the ones nearest and dearest to us. If every family worked on being closer (tough work!!!) we would not be arguing about how someone down the street or at work treated us. Utah's number one problem, in my view, is the same as America's, it is not religion, it is education. We need to learn how to throw more bar-b-ques.

Sarah Nichole | 12:13 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

One thing that nobody seems to be mentioning is that like surrounds itself with like. Meaning, people with similar values, beliefs and lifestyles tend to flock together. It doesn't mean you can't be good friends with somebody who is completely different than you in every way, but people don't like to be pushed out of their comfort zones, especially when it comes to personal standards.

Growing up in Utah, it seemed that there were the LDS kids who actually acted like they were LDS, the LDS kids who were only LDS by virtue of the fact that their parents wouldn't let them drop away while they still lived at home, the kids who weren't LDS but who were either religious or had high personal standards, and then there were the kids who lived by no rules whatsoever. The first group was rather large, the second group was larger still, and the last group was the very largest. Unfortunately, the third group was the smallest.

It's not usually that people don't want to associate with non-Mormons, it's that they don't want to associate with people who don't have the same standards of behavior, regardless of their religious beliefs.

David O McKay said, | 12:15 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

"If the gap between the Saints and the world is daily widening, we can be assured we are on the right path..."

EdM | 12:17 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

We spend so much time bashing each other's religion that ALL of us fail to live the message of Jesus: to love one another fully. I have read all of these postings and only a handful call ALL of us to live that very message. How sad the things we do in Jesus' name that go against HIS message. Oh, btw...I am a Catholic in love with a lovely LDS woman.

lostinBoise | 12:17 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

We can't let ourselves be liked what will all of the martyrs in the church build their faith on. The fact that very few knew very much about us says a lot. Either they could care less or our missionaries need to knock on more doors dressed in a more appealing way.

Gary Halley | 12:20 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

John Pack Lambert writes: "I think the Church's public stance on Proposition 8 has really helped public perception. People have seen we are an organization committed to following the teaching of Jesus."

What exactly were those teachings of Christ in regards to the gay marriage issue, Prop 8? I've looked high and low for anything Christ said about homosexuality and found nothing. I did find some words of Paul regarding this, but one could understandably dismiss him as sexually repressed and uptight.

Could you please enlighten us as to what Christ said regarding this issue?

John Pack Lambert | 12:28 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

To Mr. Halley,
Read "The Family, A Proclamation to the World". This is a document issued by all the apostles of Jesus Christ living at the time. If anything tells us what his teachings are on issues of are day, this does.

Anonymous | 12:31 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

re: Mark | 9:30 a.m. Nov. 23, 2008

At one point, The LDS faith used to take great comfort in being a peculiar people.

That philosophy has gone by the way side IMO.

The nearly 2 centuries long persecution has made for quite an inferiority complex which some are trying to overcome almost overnight.

Look @ the BYU football striving psychotically hard for worldly recognition (i.e. busting the BCS), Prop 8, etc...

K | 12:34 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Good grief. To those who think the world feels it's okay to protest outside LDS temples but not other churches so wrong. It happens to the Catholic churches all the time with people trying to receive the sacrament in a rainbow sash inside our places of worship or protesting outside cathedrals about the abuse scandals, trying to get women ordained as priests, ect.... Not to mention those envelopes sent to K of C. Catholic Bishops have issued statements decrying those actions against the LDS. I'm sure our Jewish brothers and sisters feel the same way and many other Christian faiths besides.

The arguement why is it just us (LDS) when so many other's helped pass, would you feel better if all churches were attacked? It shouldn't happen to any.

We aren't on this earch to be popular. We are here to know, love and serve the Lord. Sometimes that means we will be hated.

Gary Halley | 12:35 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Mr. Lambert, I was hoping for something that Christ himself said, not the words of Gordon Hinckley. Wouldn't Christs words be found in the New Testament?

What?????? | 12:36 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

To John Pack Lambert:

RE: "This is a document issued by all the apostles of Jesus Christ living at the time."

That makes absolutely no sense at all. Are you referring to your Mormon "apostles"? At what time?

You are demonstrating your own very narrow mindset with your answers.

Gary Halley | 12:57 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Mr. Lambert,

Cat got your tongue?

Shocking? | 1:01 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

This is not shocking at all. Living our religion is not easy, nor is it politically correct. It is not meant to be popular. It is simply meant to be worth it. Public perception of our beliefs will NEVER gain very much ground. We have an adversary utilizing all possible means to ensure this. This is not terribly worrisome, especially if you have a testimony.

Truth | 1:05 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Tell the truth about the early history of the Church and let the chips fall where they may. There was so much misinformation fed to me growing up in SS, seminary & institute classes about a "history" that just did not line up with reality that I cannot believe anything that is said now. Read "In Sacred Lonliness" by Todd Compton, read "Rough Stone Rolling" by Richard Bushman, read "Studies of the Book of Mormon" by BH Roberts, read "Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith".
These are good, honest histories of the early LDS Church and they do not line up with what you get taught in SS class, institues, etc. They have something to hide and it shows. Until the Church comes clean about all of this I just cannot really look at it the same way I used to.

Utah | 1:14 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

To Arizona:

I couldn't have said it better myself. The public does not know that chronologically the book of John came after Revelations. We Mormons get viewed as being in the wrong because of the scripture that we have, when NO man of any faith can Identify the original bible.

The books of the bible were written and rewritten to best represent the views of the man translating it over hundreds of years. The bible was translated into many languages before it was ever translated into english. This is why the Mormons use the King James version of the bible, because it is most accurate.

Please Mr. Lambert!!! | 1:15 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

To: John Pack Lambert.

Let me start by saying that I'm not an "anti-mormon" or someone attacking your right to express your feelings.(You certainly have the right.) I'm a member of the LDS church who is politely asking you to quit posting messages on every controversial topic as if you were given authority from church leadership. You are embarrassing yourself and a lot of good people. Please Stop.

re JPL | 1:27 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

I think the greatest reason many tend to have a negative view of the church are members like you: Pompous, Arrogant, Superior, Moralistic Know-it-All's who think they and they alone know what is best for everyone. Are all members like this? Of course not! Are some (you, in particular)? Absolutely!

Gary Halley | 1:32 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Mr. Lambert seems at a loss for words regarding the teachings of Christ in regards to homosexuality. Does anyone else have knowledge of Christ's teachings on the subject...New Testament, Book of Mormon...anything??

Mr. Lambert's attempt to slip in under the radar with "This is a document issued by all the apostles of Jesus Christ living at the time." was misleading and dishonest to say the least. As another poster pointed out...at what time?

Earl | 1:39 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Mormons are elitists, many religionists are but Mormons are even more so and people detest them for it. That will pass, it's taken most of a hundred years but the church has been dragged, kicking and screaming, inch by inch into the future in exchange for their identity. But considering their recent public foray into politics, that they've always managed to keep somewhat quiet before in the past, they still have a ways to go. However, I don't want any of them as neighbors, hell, I don't even want them in my state. I prefer enlightenment as apposed to the superstition Mormons teach.

re JPL | 1:47 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Jesus Christ said nothing regarding homosexual people or homosexuality anywhere in the New Testament. If you are as good a scholar of religion as you would have everyone believe, you would know that.

Perry L. Porter | 1:49 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

So many here have claimed that the church was NOT suppose to be popular, but when Steve Young was the MVP of the Superbowl Mormons were very proud of him, but not so proud of Jim McMann, (BYU - Catholic).

Who are you kidding, Mormons LOVE being popular, and popular Mormons like Former Miss-America, (C. Wells) and Marie Osmond (on dancing with the stars)

You all totally miss the idea that the reason Mormons are not popular is because evil people hate the righteous..... but most everyone hates the self-righteous!

Dah!

"As members of the true church we should" ... blah, blah, blah...

By saying the things said here, most of you are saying those interviewed are evil and we in the church are righteous.

Are such comments of superiority going to improve public opinion, or cement the negative perception?

Perry L. Porter

Gary Halley | 1:54 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Mr. Lambert has apparently thrown in the towel. Many members of his own church are asking him to shut up. Perhaps the LDS hierarchy got the word to him to cease and desist, lest he do any more harm to their image.

Roy Man | 1:56 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Only a suggestion, but as a non-member of the LDS Church it would be great if my daughter could continue to play with LDS children. Once LDS parents find out we are Catholic, for some reason my children can no longer play with the LDS kids (great kids by the way). If you want to change perceptions, perhaps the actions should mirror the verbal message?

Advise for Earl | 2:11 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

You should try having a loving heart instead of hating a whole group of people. It makes life much more pleasant.

hammer time | 2:17 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

re: Lapsed Mormon | 11:48 a.m. Nov. 24, 2008

>>I have lived in many parts of the US, and Europe, and where ever I go I find that Church members are too insular and have too little interaction with members of the community at large.<<

LM's observation that Church members are too insular hits the nail on the head.

To John Pack Lambert | 2:36 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Blah, blah, blah.

Seriously, are you like this with all your circle of friends, family, co-workers?

What a pity.

If you are trying to make the Church look good, you are making a really poor job. You flunk, my friend.

To: Mr. Halley | 2:37 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Um, this is just a wild guess, but perhaps like most adults, Brother Lambert actually has a job. This is a week day, you see, and most of us can't afford to spend hours upon hours a day playing online while we're working, which many of us do on week days. I believe he's said in the past that he is in his late 20s, so my guess would be that at this stage in his life, he needs to work for a living.

And, as a member of the LDS church, I don't find his posts to be embarrassing at all. A bit garrulous sometimes, perhaps, but always well meaning, and he usually hits the nail on the head as far as doctrine is concerned.

To answer your question, while Christ didn't specifically mention homosexuality, He DID mention chastity and man/woman marriage. [Matt 19:3-6, for one reference, though there are others] He made it quite clear how he feels about marriage, what defines it, and about sexual relations outside of marriage. We are all expected to follow those rules, regardless of who we find attractive, or we will have to explain to God why we didn't keep His commandments.

if they can't get you | 2:40 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

into the church, or BACK into the church, many (most?) lds people simply don't want to have much to do with other people ... they lack the big picture.

realitycheck | 2:41 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

JPL 11:21am

the king and king? r u serious?

that was a made-up story put in the classroom by a rogue teacher. it's like a gambling addict teacher showing the class how to gamble. it was a fluke.

why do you all insist on making that an actual issue, including putting it in deceptive ads pre prop 8 voting?

and it occurred prior to the bill passing in Mass, not after. and again - it was a rogue teacher. what don't you get?

why do you religious fanatics have to lie in order to force your morals onto others? I don't get it - I thought that was against your religion. Oh - wait - the mormon religion is about "increasing tiths from converts", not about the truth. my bad.

Please Answer- Serious Question | 2:58 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

With all the Bible references about homosexuality, does anyone else but me find it somewhat strange that there is no reference to in in the Book of Mormon? Why does not this "Second Testament of Christ in the New World" fail to condemn it?

re 2:41pm | 3:05 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

The King and King was a real book that was put into a bag as part of a reading series on diversity of families in Massachussetts. It was never read (as far as I can ascertain) to a class, and certainly was never part of the curriculum. It was made into a big issue when the Wirthlin family, sensing opportunity, got all up in arms about it. Look close enough into the whole anti-gay marriage issue, and you'll find a disproportionate amount of members of a certain Utah-based religion leading the charge against gay people, and equal rights for their partners and their families.

outsider | 3:09 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

I see one giant self-fulfilling prophesy here.

The LDS church and its members does things that may offend or bother others. This much is true. Then they say, like Marky at 800 this morning "in the last days, the wicked will revile against the followers of God and be persecuted and even killed for their belief in God." Also, there is a belief built in that people will persecute you, and that is proof of your righteousness. Isn't that convenient? You can do whatever you want to others, and if they get upset, its their fault because they're wicked and you're right!
I also find it troubling that so many of you DONT CARE why people dont like you. "We're not here to win popularity contests." When I was a kid, nobody at school liked me much, I didn't have many friends. I had no idea why. I later found out it was because I was a bit of a spoiled brat, and I said lots of awful things to others without realizing I was being hurtful. If I had taken your attitude of not caring, I would've continued to hurt people throughout my life. You should care somewhat!

Bill | 3:12 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

JPL spoke honestly and with great sincerity. The Old Testament along with Paul of the New Testament are testimonies and writings of Prophets and Apostles of Jesus Christ. In Amos of the Old Testament it states that God will reveal his word through his prophets. Moses was a prophet of God and Jesus Christ is the God of the Old Testament as he is Jehovoah. Paul is an Apostle of Jesus Christ, thus when it is spoken by them as a special witness of Jesus Christ it is the same as if it came from the mouth of Jesus Christ.

Today we have living apostles, fifteen of them as a matter of fact with one President Thomas S Monson as the official mouth piece of Jesus Christ. This is the official stand of all LDS members as we sustain these men as Prophet, Seers and Revelators. When asked to act by them, we generally without question will do so because of the mantel he has.

Unless you're gay..... | 3:16 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Old Friend wrote: Dear Clint,

I'm sorry you decided to leave. Many of us miss you and morn your departure. We love you still and will always call you a friend. Please know that we would welcome you with open arms if you should choose to return.

Riiiiiiight.

My response | 3:28 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Answer to "Please Answer - Serious Question"

The Book of Mormon people had something similar to the Old Testament with them and so they knew the teachings written in there. Though the Book of Mormon might not specifically mention homosexuality, it certainly speaks of sin and man's dependence on the Savior and His atonement. In Mosiah 4:29 it reads "I cannot tell you all the things whereby you may commit sin."

Today, the Holy Bible and Book of Mormon are to be had "hand in hand" and compliment one another. Plus, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have the blessing of continuing revelation. Many of the Ancient prophets in the America's saw our day and were inspired in their writings.

Homosexuality itself is condemned, but not a person who struggles with homosexual tendencies who lives a pure, chaste life and strives to keep his/her covenants.

I do not believe that we need every little detail of sin spelled out. People know if they are involved in sin.

I will check back later to see if this answered your question.

JC | 3:31 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Just a word from God: I don't like self-important people. It burns me up.

to Mr. Halley | 3:36 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

Mr. Halley, My guess is that Mr. Lambert has stopped replying to you, because you started to get quite contentious. I'm guessing that his intent was not to be contentious, but to explain his view. So when you became derisive and contentious, he probably chose to log off. He may not have been tactful in some of his replies (and they certainly were quite numerous), but he certainly was not contentious as you clearly were.

Howard Stucki | 3:36 p.m. Nov. 24, 2008

When Nephi had his vision of the 'tree of life' he saw a building full of people that were scoffing at
the righteous. The building and people represent the pride of the world. How did Nephi say we should respond to the ridicule coming from the building.
'We paid no heed' to them. That is how we should conduct ourselves. Also later when talking about the last days and the Gospel going throughout the world, Nephi said the Saints would combat persecution
by 'being armed with RIGHTEOUSNESS. Good advice.

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