Deseret News | Reader comments: Costs top $12.4 million for raid on FLDS

Reader comments
Costs top $12.4 million for raid on FLDS

Dan | 1:25 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

This mess proved to be not only a waste in terms of ripped apart families but a waste of money as well. I hope it will teach something for the future.

Bail out | 2:10 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Sounds like the state of Texas bailed these people out! Money can by almost anything is seems!

Nosugrof | 3:38 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

The sd litem and the state are not on the same sides. This isn probably why the state made it hard for Susan Hays to rpresent her client. This is paticurly true when the removal is unjustified.

Comments continue below

Joey | 5:19 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

I just feel sorry for all those children who were stripped searched and given intrusive SANE exams, during their two-month detention by CPS. No one deserves that kind of aweful treatment, much less children.

Anonymous | 5:30 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

12.4 Million is small change compared to the forthcoming lawsuits against the Texas CPS for its civil rights abuse.

Yes | 6:21 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

It is and has been money well spent. My hat is off to the law enforcement agencies of Texas. You break the law, you endanger the kids, you pay the price.

Cathy Snyder | 6:41 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Yet another case of mis-guided *justice*. You'd think, with the court backlog as it presently stands the system would be better served prosecuting those who are *clearly* in breach of law and *fining* them to work to pay the cost of their misuse of power.
I think it's about time that those in *power* began to pay for THEIR tyranny! Aren't those in the *paying for it class* about tired of having NO SAY as to how debt is incurred for them?
cj snyder

zxcvbnm | 6:58 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

The State of Texas uses some interesting accounting methods to serve its ourpose,

CPS reported a $10million dollar cost of the raid and a $30 million dollar total after the release of the children. What was the purpose of releasing the higher numbers?

It would seem that the reduced numbers came about by simply paying everyone a reduced rate but hey.....getting a negative response by the public for the higher figures worked against the flds for a while. We had State legislators screaming about confiscating the Church and siezing property.

Sounds to me like a bit of "creative accounting" is in the states benefit now that public opinion has shifted against the state.

question | 7:09 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

how much did the innocent FLDS people lose defending themselves? That should be included also, not to mention all the stress, pain and suffering they put those people through. Texas needs to change the law the indemnifies them from being sued. They are out of control and act without conscience. There needs to be some sort of checks and balances when you are talking about people that have the power to take your children away. They should have to consider they might be some consequences when they go out and remove the rights of over 400 children. I hope they all lose their jobs.

TexanUt | 7:30 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Sounds like all the above messages are from fdls members.I guess now all the children have to fight off their fathers until they escape the compound.

zxcvbnm | 7:39 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

RE Question..... THe US 5th circuit has ruled that State workers can be held liable on a personal level in the future.......but the State still gets off the hook.

Cats | 7:40 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

I'm glad the State of Texas is willing to value children enough to spend some money trying to protect and defend them. I hope they can do something to help the innocent victims of the FLDS leadership. If not, it will be another generation before anything can be done to stop these crimes against women and children.

And So..... | 7:42 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

After Texas has spent $12.5 million, what has Utah learned from all this? Come on now, you all know the answer!

well | 7:55 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Utah wont learn from this because then history wont be able to repeat it self. my best wishes go out to the FLDS. keep up the Great work.

comic | 8:12 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Hay Government if you give me $12.5 million, I will let you split my family for a few month too..

erudite | 8:17 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Texas state immunity won't help these agencies once the FLDS attorneys get them before a federal court on allegations of violation of civil rights. And, oh yes, "Yes", the point is that none of these children or their parents were breaking the law. That's why Texas is in such a mess on this.

nosugrof | 8:20 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Rozitz Swinton broke the law and ahe has not been arrested. The state does not want to remind people that this began with a hoax.

zxcvbnm | 8:48 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

26 oregnant teens = 3 teens pregnant
Arsenal of Guns = 5 rifles
466 children = 440 children
440 Children = 339 children
14 day hearing = months?
3 pregnant teens = 3 pregnant adults
30-40 million in costs = 12.4 million
One pregnant abused child = 1 nut

Looks like CPS needs a math class

Anonymous | 9:12 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

This is news? From the New York Times, June 15, 2008:

The cost of the raid on a polygamist compound in West Texas in April is expected to exceed $14 million, about one-third of it in legal fees, according to an analysis of state records.

The Fort Worth Star-Telegram published its findings Saturday after reviewing more than 400 pages of invoices, e-mail messages and other state records that it obtained under an open-records request.

More invoices for overtime, travel and professional services are likely to add to the final cost, the records indicate.

The biggest part of the spending is expected to stem from court proceedings after the state seized more than 460 children from the Yearning For Zion Ranch of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in Eldorado.

Did God say you could do that? | 9:16 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

It is immoral to send in a government agency to do what we as individuals have no right to do. We are the one's who give these rights to our "government of the people." And we are accountable to God for what we authorize our agents to do for us.

Years ago I did foster care with good intentions, but quit when I saw that I was really causing damage by assisting in the breakup of families.

1) they will remove one child from a family but leave other children at home.
2) when the money runs out they still send them back to the same home - no changes.
3) the people doing the removing often don't even have children of their own and are self-righteous idealists.
5) What makes you think the foster home is any better? Is that guaranteed?
4) Foster parents are told not to get attached. Don't love them. What good can be done under those conditions?

No parent is perfect. If I am more perfect than you, can I take your child away? And where do I get the authority to do that? Where do you draw the line?

natty | 9:18 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Oh Yeah, and that "Body Worlds" ad at the top of Deseret News? Yeah it features the corpses of Chinese prisoners who were murdered by the state, cut in half, and preserved for your viewing pleasure. WWJD?

As I have loved you... | 9:38 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

While living in an apartment I heard constant crying from the lower unit. Finally I went down and knocked on the door to offer help. Nobody answered. Much later I saw the parent come home. My roommate and I went down and introduced ourselves and offered to help the young single mother who was sick and alone. The apartment was filthy. The child was neglected. That mom let us take the baby off her hands for two weeks. We had a lot of fun. The baby thrived. That two weeks gave that young mom a chance to think things through and she decided to give the baby up for adoption.

Cost to the state: Zero

RE: Natty | 9:49 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Get your facts straight. The bodies are from donors who supported the method for study. You're referring to a different exhibit. Sometimes it's good to ask questions or even, gasp, find out for yourself before you make bold biased claims about things you know nothing about.

Think!!!!! | 10:00 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

As I have loved you:

That is a very special story and you must be a very special person to do that for someone you did not even know. Thank-you.

But, the children of the FLDS were not unhappy where they were. All proof on the table, it was just the accusations of apostates and people who guessed they were abused that made these children suffer at the hands of the State of Texas. Prejudice can cause a lot of blindness. Thanks again for that sweet story--and notice, the FLDS children love their fathers. Abused children dispise their abuser.

zxcvbnm | 11:07 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

We know beyond a shadow of a doubt......because CPS said so.......402 of those children were not subjects of abuse.
We can only guess at this point that the 37 remaining kids are the families of the indited men.

One kid is in foster care to protect her from a man in Jail.

And the farce goes on.

As I have loved you... | 11:25 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

I don't agree that abused children despise their abusers. I was abused. I loved my parents. I know I am not alone. And whether you love your parents or despise them is not criteria for removing children from their homes.

The point is that it does not matter if children are "happy" where they are or not. (That changes from moment to moment.) What matters is if what we are doing is right.

And the point is, again, that we should work by love and not by government force. That was the point of my story.

And the point is that we...are..."the government."

James Watkins | 11:56 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008

I'm from Texas and find the complete operation to be a sinful and atrocious waste of needed state funds. Much better use could have been found for this money rather than this thoughtless expenditure
by bureaucrats of state resources for an imagined crime.

zxcvbnm | 12:58 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

JW........I also am from Texas and agree with your concern, however, there are a few perverts in the bunch that in all likelyhood will get off without punishment because of the bungling by State officials.

From the targeting of the group with laws taylored to bust them to charges that defy recent Supreme court rulings to seeing things that weren't there, the few that were harmed won't be helped.

This is a case of the ends not justifying the means.....and I still wonder just how 30-40 million became 12.4 million.

CPS is broken and the investigation promised by CPS officials has not even started.

awsomerom | 2:54 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Money very well spent. I am so proud of the State of Texas for taking the action that they took. You do not do what was done to these young girls, under any excuse, let alone the cloak of Marriage. Good Job Texas and if need be do it again.

Lack of funds is not an excuse for not enforcing the Laws. Adults having Sex with underage Girls is Rape weather or not the female consents in some manner, even through so called marriage. Because she is to young to say Yes, and if the parents allow it they need to be in Jail along with the pervert that was Raping the child.

realitycheck | 3:19 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

who cares? the kids went back to the parents - no harm no foul. 12 mil is nothing to protect children

get over it.

and whoever said lawsuits were coming doesnt know much about the law....

re Think!!! 10:00 am | 3:25 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

you said "accusations of apostates"....

what, pray tell, are apostates? anyone that is not FLDS, right?

you call us apostates - we call you freaks. won't know who's right until we're all dead, so how about not calling names anymore, ok?

apostates.... how ridiculous...

zxcvbnm | 4:00 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Oh RC......no harm no foul huh......lol....

More damage done by the State in one week than by the FLDS in a lifetime.

Since you aren't concerned about the money I suggest that you mail a check to the State Treasury....but do it before the dollar is worthless.

realitycheck | 4:22 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

more damage done to who? the parents? good. the children? I think not. The FLDS do more damage to children than the state could ever do.

and since you live in Texas and I don't, with your attitude I'd rather spend your tax dollars, thank you very much...

X POLYGAMIST WIFE | 4:27 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

FLDS aren't worth a nickel. They are evil and beyond evil.

realitycheck | 4:43 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

by the way, zxcvbnm - don't get the wrong impression. I very much appreciate how you chipped in on paying for this.

Doesn't it feel good to see your very own tax dollars spent protecting children?

zxcvbnm | 4:49 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Yep RC.damage.....traumatized children...........parents strapped for cash which means less for the kids......and the long term damage of another generation of FLDS that have a reason to not trust the government.

1953...2008......yep, another generation of children that will grow up telling about the raid on their church and another audience that will build the walls taller.

This could have been avoided | 5:26 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

if some how , some way the people could have learned to live the law of the land by obeying the law since it's inception in 1891...everyone else did!

LAW | 5:48 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

THey did obey the "law of the land".....they practiced their religion just as the constitution and Smith taught.

To x poly wife | 6:24 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

I'd love to hear some of your stories. Maybe xz*b@v*n% will finally get it.

I also agree that it was money well spent. Thank you Texas tax payers.

I have a great idea, why don't the fdls sell some of the property on yfz. Then they would have plenty of money. Or better yet, they could all go to work.

conclusion | 8:12 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

From reading this blog/forum, I can conclude that there are some humans who do not wish to face up to the problems of the polygamy in Texas. Rape is rape.

How does one justify it? I do not know.

Robin | 9:49 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008

Doing God's work is expensive. How does one measure the cost to the children that the terroistic brown shirted Child Protectors took to serve who's Best Interests? Socialism or Democracy?

Add your comment

Comments are monitored. Any comments found to be abusive, offensive, off-topic, misrepresentative, more than 200 words or containing URLs will not be posted.

Words Remaining

E-mail address: For internal use only. We may want to contact you to publish your comment (not your e-mail address) in the newspaper or for a separate story idea.