Deseret News | Graffiti at LDS chapel treated as a hate crime

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Graffiti at LDS chapel treated as a hate crime

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ACLU | 11:01 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Call the ACLU, this is a hate crime.

Kevin | 11:04 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008

If I were investigating these crimes, I would not rule out individuals who are enemies to both Mormons and homosexuals.

These crimes are committed by the very few. If these crimes are committed by homosexuals, please realize they are not representative of gay people, and gay organizations have condemned them.

Hate crime? | 11:08 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008

"Police are investigating it as a possible hate crime."

Gee, do ya think? And here I thought that all these LDS buildings being vandalized was just a bunch of random buildings being targeted. Never mind that the odds of 7 "random" acts of vandalism happening to 7 buildings belonging to the same church are astronomical.....it "may" be a hate crime. What a laugher....

Comments continue below

Bigots | 11:09 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Oh how the criminal mind works. Having worked in law enforcement for many years to include the jail I discovered some widely known facts.

Fact, criminals always justify their actions. They do not see anyone as victims except themselves. Is the same sex marraige advocates of the same mentality? Those of them who are damaging churches are absolute hypocrits. On one hand they accuse religions of being bigots and prejudiced. They say it is not fair so they turn around and damage property of another. Do they see themselves as the only victims? Well hear this, we who believe very strongly in the sanctity of marraige feel feel victimized as well.

Well here's a little preaching for ya. Old Testiment, "each did that which was right according to his own understanding." Given as a description of Sodom and Gamorah afteri their destruction. Sounds too familiar today.

Here's a thought, maybe God does actually condemn homosexuality (New Testiment). Maybe the gay community is trying to justify their own actions to that which is right according to their own understanding. Just because you want it to be true doesn't make it true.

jjfarming | 11:12 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008

"nobody's born a bigot"... to the person that tagged the wall, that may or may not be true... since he/she believes people can be born with sexual preferences why can't someone be born with discriminatory preferences?

another annoying elementary outburst... and to him/her that vandalized: just to make it fair why dont you go tag the other chirstian churches in davis county too? they arent on your side either.

Not Natural | 11:15 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008

"Nobody's born a bigot."

Nobody's born a gay, either.

Nothing to get worked up about | 11:21 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Most people on both sides of the debate believe that the best way to move forward is with civility. In the grand scheme of things, a little graffiti on a wall is nothing to get riled up about. Let the police handle this one.

jce0609 | 11:27 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Before every one goes off on this latest act of vandalism maybe we should find out who's responsible instead of assuming who the culprits are.
to: bigots, between the terrible grammer and atrocious spelling I'm not sure what your point was, please clarify.
to: jjfarming yes it was a childish outburst, I think that's what you meant by elementary, but not all Christian churches side with the LDS point of view.

re: jce0609 | 11:48 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008

You're absolutely correct that all Christian churches don't side with the LDS on this; for me that doesn't matter. What matters to me is that I belong to a Christian church that does take a stand for something that they believe in, despite knowing that there would be plenty of negative repercussions

Oh please | 12:21 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

They have no leads, and they never will. Because they don't care. That's what those who did it are counting on. Oh, but it's not as "deploreable" as picketing right outside a temple. No offense, but that's hypocritical. I wouldn't dream of holding a demonstration right outside a jewish temple, or a catholic cathedral. But then I actually respect them for their own choice in beliefs.

Stan | 12:28 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

To the poster filed as "Bigots"

Fact: the Bible is nonsensical. However, if you insist on using it to push your closed-minded, sheepish views, here are some other lovely passages by the god you quote; should we assume you believe these as well?

- God will punish men by causing their wives to be ravished(Isa 13:16, Zech 14:2)
- God gives rules and regulations for selling daughters (but not sons) into slavery (Ex 21:7-11).
- Rules for taking a captive woman to wife and what to do if you decide you don't like her after all (Deut 21:10-14).
- No woman should have authority over a man (1 Tim 2:12)

The bible is full of others and you can't conveniently pick and choose your quotes to simply justify your own biases. The point: stop being such a bigot just because your church tells you otherwise - think for yourself. Marriage is a man-made legally binding contract - stop pretending otherwise.

To all LDS Members | 12:28 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Let's turn the other cheek on this. It's unfortunate that these events are happening, but I believe a majority of No on Prop 8 supporters would be disappointed with the actions of a few who don't represent the whole. Let us all be a little kinder to each other.

Anonymous | 12:43 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

They can destroy all they want. If i have to go to church at my house I could care less. Doesnt change my beleifs

Are you surprised? | 12:45 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Hate always breeds hate in reaction. Perhaps the LDS Church should try love instead of hate. Hatred leads to more hatred. Why is the Church so afraid of gays? Is the Church that weak?

Re: Surprised | 1:10 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

The LDS church is not afraid of gays, Marriage is between a man and a women. That's what we believe. Should the LDS members start drinking beer because Budwieser is pressuring us? Start drinking coffee because Starbucks looks down at us? Get real here, hate has nothing to do with it.

Edmond | 1:28 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

My ward building in CA was vandalized way worse than this, and the police aren't even investigating, let alone calling it a hate crime.

@ Are you surprised | 1:29 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

It's not about hating them, in fact, they accept them for who they are, not what they think they are.

In any case, I have mixed feelings. I am a member of the church and I believe there should be a separation of church and state, and if it was separated PERFECTLY then gay marriage would be legal.

But I also believe that this country was founded on principles that are Christian, and we all know what happened with sodom and gomorrah... being gay is not right. So upholding the belief that marriage is between a man and a woman is something that should never change.

LDS | 1:36 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Why should LDS views on marriage be imposed on non-LDS members? It's not like gays were trying to force LDS members to enter into a gay marriage.

Marriage: everybody gets one before anybody gets two.

news flash | 1:47 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

to:Are you surprised? Why don't you get it right this is one of probably hundreds of the churches that get vandilized or broke into and it is one of the few that are in the news papers. That is just because it is the most well know church and people are intimidated by it.
You need to get over your selves and respect what these people think and feel. They have their rights own rights and you need to eat your words.
They do not hate they just don't believe that same sex marriage is man made MARRAIGE IS FOR MAN AND WOMAN if it was right for same sex mariage both would have the reproductive systems capible for having kids.
Oh and i think that poeple should piont fingers back at themselves for being bigots because they take the rights away from other people. you just need to get your facts right about people.

Matt | 1:48 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

The problem is that mormons used RELIGOUS beliefs to change LAWS (in another state). That is a problem with church/state. You cannot base your LAWS on RELIGOUS beliefs. It is simply illegal. Period. You mormons based your support of prop 8 on your religous beliefs. That's why I'm upset. Religion has done more evil in this world than it has good. Just my opinion.

A friend. | 1:52 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

To "Are you surpised?": Are you expressing your own reaction to hate? As a convert to the LDS faith, I have found that love and compassion are the expression of all who have true testimonies of Jesus Christ and His Gospel. The hate you speak of seems to be present in those that oppose doing what is best for the majority of people of all faiths and all walks of life. Fear and weakness are the reason for the hate that has been expressed by those unwilling to live by the laws of the land. That hate has been met by calm expressions of peace and love by those it has been directed towards. Choices have been made and expressed on both sides of the marriage issue. Accountablity for the choice that was made in California through lawful means requires that all people in that state accept it. Would you feel it was hateful for LDS members to vandalize the Gay Rights meeting houses or would that just be the hate they have coming back to them? I am so sorry you feel so lost and unloved. You are a child of God. He loves you and so do I.

@news flash | 2:05 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

to:LDS if you are trying to combined LDS with poligamy you are wrong we do not believe in more then one wife you are thinking of the reform mormons that are way different from us so why don't you get your history right before you start pointing fingers. they may not be trying to force us to be gay but they are trying to get us to let them use are sacred temples for they can be married in them. but that is not what they are meant for like the chapel down in Los Vegas are for. They also do not need to throw tantrums because they did not get there way.
to:Matt we LDS members stick together and we help each other when it is needed we do not leave them to fend for themselves.

sodom and gomorrah? | 2:06 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Sorry we all don't know what happened at sodom and gomorrah. I didn't learn it in science or the book of Assops Fairy Tales. The bible and its stories are not proven to be true and do not hold any scientific value. Therefore we don't know nor care. The 14th amendment is all that matters since the constitution is the law of the land, not the bible.

Anonymous | 2:21 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

I've lived in Utah my whole life and vandalized 2 churches. I'm not gay. If I were to do it tomorrow would that mean that it's linked to gays. Maybe I just don't like the "Holier then thou" attitude here in Utah. In other states LDS members are the best people out there but here in Utah they are rude,condescending,stuck-up,& elitist. (For anyone wondering I was with two members that actually did go to those churches so your own people do it too)

Anonymous | 2:23 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Before you start dissind the LDS church why don't you look into it and see what it is all about instead of assuming what it is all about you might be surprised what you find out about it and a lot of the they say about us is very wrong.

Steve Olliverson | 2:29 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

It's about time that the bishop's of these buildings sleep in them all night to protect and serve them.
Happy Thanksgiving!

get the facts | 2:31 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

There are things in the bible that have been proven to be scientifically correct but scientists don't put it out there so they can keep religion and country seperate or how ever you put it. i guess it just that darn public eduaction that affects all your guy's brains.

Mormons are Afraid | 2:37 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

If Mormons truly believe based on their own religion that marriage is between a man and a woman, why not simply practice that belief among your own kind? Why does the Church feel compelled to pay $22 million to impose its beliefs on others who do not share their beliefs. What is wrong with religion is it divides -- it does not unite. Think of all of the hate in the world right now, caused by people who all believe that their church is "the" true church. Grow up -- there is no true church.

LGBT are Afraid | 2:49 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

If the LGBT truly believe based on their own sexuality that marriage is between a man and anyone, why not simply practice that belief among your own kind? Why does the LGBT feel compelled to pay $22 million to impose its beliefs on others who do not share their beliefs. What is wrong with the LGBT is it divides -- it does not unite. Think of all of the hate in the world right now, caused by people who all believe that their sexuality is "the" way. Grow up! Goes bothways buddy!

John Pack Lambert | 2:54 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Winslow exemplifies Deseret News reporters learning too much from the mainstream media and too little from church leaders.
Proposition 8 did not ban same-sex marriage, it defined marriage as the union of a man and a woman. This is a very important distinction.
I would recomend anyone who wants to understand this subject read Timonthy J. Dailey's indepth analysis of the issues.
The fact of the matter is that homosexual relationships are unstable and putting children in them is unadvised. One example of this is the fact that the first child adopted by a homosexual couple in New Jersey was an orphan by the age of five. True, being an orphan happens in many ways, but we should at least consider high mortality rates when we weigh who should and should not be allowed to adopt.

John Pack Lambert | 2:56 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

To the 11:01 commentator,
No help from the ACLU here. They supported a law in Colorado that makes it illegal to publish anything demeaning to homosexuality. How this does not constitute a ban on publishing the Bible especially where it describes homosexual practices as abominations I have yet to understand.
The ACLU wants us to keep our religion in the closet.

John Pack Lambert | 3:03 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

To the 11:21 poster,
Since the No on 8 campaign has never denounced the hate ad against missionaries, I am not sure how you can claim that "most people" on both sides believe in civility.
With the lengths to which anti-8 people have gone to justify everything from the hate 8 to the Idaho Test Oath, I have yet to sense civility from many of them.
With the outright lie that Mormons are "allowed" to practice polygamy, their failure both to understand that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been excommunicating people for polygamy for nearly a centrury and defining it as morally equivalent to adultery if practed in the present for well over 80 years, as well as their failure to understand it is a criminal offense that can lead to jail time in most (if not all states) and that it has always been banned by the Utah State Constitution constitute such major failures to understand the issues at hand that I have to assume a level of ignorance of fact that assumes people are operating at sub-90 IQs in order to even come close to believe they are acting civilly.

Re: Matt | 3:04 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

"You Mormons," like the LDS church was the only one the was involved and the only people that voted. The same argument could be said in reverse, the law needs to stay out of what a church says is not allowed within it's religion. I don't think most people understand that if the LDS church is forced to recognizes same-sex marriages to be legal in any state it will no longer be able to practice their beliefs there. Because the church could be sued for discrimination for not conducting marriages for it's gay members. Does that make sense? Matt you act like it's not fair for the LDS church to think people should change their beliefs about homosexuality to be a member. But that it is totally ok for the homosexuals to demand that the church change one of it's most sacred covenants. The LDS church is strong and did exactly what this country was designed around. It protected itself, same-sex marriage lost the vote, period. You want that to change, get another vote and win this time. Stop targeting a group of people that only had a small part in getting things done in their favor.

re: not natural | 3:17 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

"nobody's born a gay, either"
So, how then does one become gay? Are they recruited? Do they come in pairs to your doorstep with name badges asking if you have heard of the marvels of being gay? Is it a choice? "Hey, that looks fun! All the hate & discrimination, I think I'll choose that!" Really? Have you ever talked to someone who is gay? They would probably tell you it makes life a fair amount more difficult. If you believe being gay is not part of the personality they were born with, and you believe there are people who are gay (could be a moon-landing conspiracy), bridge that gap for me. Explain why gay people say they had no choice. How is it that you know more about gayness than those who are openly gay? Something you want to tell us?

re JPL: | 3:28 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Read Proposition 8's description: Removes the right of same-sex Couples to Marry. It does ban gay marriages in the state of California. No matter how much you say it over and over again here, it doesn't change that fact.

convenient | 3:52 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

The church spends all that money because once gay marriage is legal, polygamous marriage is not far behind. Then there would be no good reason to not practice the fullness of their gospel. Thats why they push so hard for that "one man and ONE woman" rhetoric. They want so badly to be mainstream.

nutt | 4:08 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

To Anonymous | 2:21 p.m. So first of all, why don't you move somewhere else if you hate it here so much? And secondly, people of other faiths don't commit crimes I guess. Just "our people" You sit there and judge every LDS person in Utah by a few and then in the same breath say they are holier than thou, elitist and stuck-up. HMMMMM, that just doesn't make sense now does it? Apply your same mentality to yourself first. and to Mormons are Afraid, who told you there is no true church? "Practice that belief among you own kind" What a very loving comment. You don't belong to a church do you? So it is not just religion that causes hate is it? I like how everyone is saying how "Mormons" are not loving and caring and have so much hatred, Well I guess we are not alone are we?

to jce0609 | 4:14 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

grammer? if you weren't talking about the vandlists bad grammar, i'd think you were talking about your atrocious spelling

kara | 4:17 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

I think everyone who is short tempered should band together and call themselves cheerful. They should then demand that the definition of abuse, assault etc. change so they can kick, punch, choke, stab or shoot anyone they please. It doesn't matter that there are target ranges and punching bags that give them that right. They should be allowed to abuse anyone they want and we should let them. After all, they have a tendency to be hotheaded. They can't help it. They were born that way.

Re: Matt | 4:20 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Matt is obviously too young to remember the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s, when black churches used their influence and moral persuasion to change the law in every state.

And then there was another time when Americans based their law on moral beliefs, back when they passed the 13th Amendment outlawing slavery.

It doesn't surprise me that people like Matt are so blinded by hatred they would forget history. But given Matt's childish logic I would guess he didn't study very hard in school.

I'm not upset | 5:02 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

i listen to what nature is telling us and i have to lean toward the mormon and other religions...the creator has always used warnings...and to be blind at this time does not or will not fit the bill. I have to tell my children that even on this continent kingdoms have come and kingdoms have gone. But some how despite all the warnings , the attitude of America is that "we are a fix it society" but there will come a day as warned by the great chief seatle who to those who took his way of life...the web of life is related ...to us all...this land has seen other kingdoms rise and fall...we will see if we are related after all. So now I must teach my children well and this is not civil rights..the native people have a concept that accepts these people but this is not civil rights but deals with the spiritual and that i must live with in order to be in harmony with what i am a natural man. This does not mean to demean others with dreams but other kingdoms have fallen because of this very principle. Nature will have it's say!!

Re: Mormons are afraid | 5:15 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

For the 1 millionth time! The LDS DID NOT donate money to support prop 8. Some members of their own free will did. If you are going to come on here and say things, at least get it right!

kenny | 5:30 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

The church does not hate anyone but there are plenty of Latter Day Saints who vent their hate and anger and bigotry in this blog.Personally I think it would be a good thing if Mormon Times stops running these stories so both sides of this issue can take time and "chill out".A mob is a mob no matter what side you are on.

Marie | 5:38 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

If being gay isn't a choice, then somebody explain to me why a LARGE percentage of the men who graduated around the time I did from my HS are gay? If it is a naturally occurring phenomenon, then the percentage of gays coming out of my HS would be nearly the same as the percentage of gays in the general population. But, it's much, much higher. I can't tell you how many in my circle of HS friends are now gay. It's literally probably half my male friends.

How could that happen if it's not a choice?? It's statistically improbable to have a cluster like that.

Everly Hase | 5:58 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

The Church did nothing wrong! The Church stood up for what it believed in when no one else would. Prop 8 won get over it. Both the people and Heavenly Father have spoken. You people need to get a liefe a leave the Church alone. People it is Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve. Right is right and it is sad so many do not recognize the gift that the LDS church has given humanity by taking this stand.

My take | 5:59 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

I struggled with same sex attraction since I was a young man. I did many dispicable things with other men I met in bars, etc that I am ashamed of. I was not born this way! I chose to do it. I did it because of lust and it excited me. I know none of those other men loved me at all and I didn't love them. I finally got help from my Bishop. He helped me see things differently. I am still tempted but I have been able to live the law of chasitity for almost two years now. Some will say I am not really gay. I think I was! I know some "gay" people out there would condemn me for saying this but if you want to change, you can! If I can do it who is among the weakest of all, anyone can change. I hope my experiences will be of some value to someone out there who is like me. That is all I want to say.

Negative associations. | 6:01 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

It is sad that when either side of the issue expresses hate or anger. I believe that the majority of the gay population and the LDS church do not want to engage in hateful and vile words or actions. But I believe that the gay population has interpreted the church's support to Prop 8 as being against them and they in turn have protested in large groups against the church. Emotions become riled up in a protest situation and where 98% of the people at these protests are being peaceful, yet vocal, there is a small percentage that takes it to far. I believe that a small percentage of that group decide to do these acts of mischief, which is not condoned by this 98%.

On the other hand, I would hope that the gay population will realize and understand that in the LDS population the statistics are probably the same. I believe that members of the LDS church do not support gay marriage, as a rule, but they do not hate a person for being gay.

I hope that both sides of this issue will follow the council of their leaders and be respectful in their words and actions.

Find another passtime | 6:14 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Why can't the gay people just LEAVE US ALONE!!! These hate crimes against the church are not amusing. Only a simpleton could do such things.

PercentHomosexual | 6:24 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

BTW, the media often quote the falsified statistic that "10% of the population is gay". The fact is that over 20 independent studies conducted since 1980 have found that the percentage of homosexuals in the population varied from 1.3% to 2.3%. Not a single study since 1970 has found the percentage of homosexuals to be higher than 2.5%, and none have found the percent of lesbians to be higher than 1.2%. (search on Battelle Institute, Guttmacher Institute, etc.)

whiny whiny | 7:36 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008

Go cry over all your mean hate crimes against normal people who want to be left alone.

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