Reader comments
FLDS mom drops action against Texas CPS
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nosugrof | 5:48 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
Someway, Somehow, a way must be found to hold CPS accountable for its actions.
Howwever, I believe that individuals can be held accountable.
Salt and pepper | 7:10 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
Someway, Somehow a way must be found to hold the pervetrators accountable for
their actions.
I beleive many individuals will be held accountable. There are now three more indictees who wont turn themselves in, looks like there might be a manhunt, Wheres Waldo M. Jessop?
I beleive many individuals will be held accountable. There are now three more indictees who wont turn themselves in, looks like there might be a manhunt, Wheres Waldo M. Jessop?
Cody | 7:28 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
I agree CPS should be held accountable for their mistakes. State, organization,
police who let them, and management/politicians who made it happen.
Over 400 mistakes they made here, over stepping their bounds for each person they kidnaped away from their loving parents.
Over 400 mistakes they made here, over stepping their bounds for each person they kidnaped away from their loving parents.
Comments continue below
re: Cody | 8:25 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
Calling what happened with FLDS in April "kidnapping" is an insult to
anyone who has actually experienced having a loved one kidnapped.
Why do FLDS defenders insist on using such overblown, hysterical words and phrases?
Why do FLDS defenders insist on using such overblown, hysterical words and phrases?
Kidnapping is the right word | 9:09 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
"Calling what happened with FLDS in April "kidnapping" is an
insult to anyone who has actually experienced having a loved one
kidnapped."
-------------
It's actually worse. When the government steals your kids in collusion with a judge, there's no one to turn to.
-------------
It's actually worse. When the government steals your kids in collusion with a judge, there's no one to turn to.
to re: Cody | 9:17 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
What do you want to call it if it wasn't kidnapping?
realitycheck | 9:45 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
what do we call it?
we call it "protecting young girls from a religion that includes statuatory rape as a church doctrine."
we call it "protecting young girls from a religion that includes statuatory rape as a church doctrine."
re: to re: Cody | 9:52 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
I would call it a child abuse investigation.
re: Kidnapping is the right word | 9:55 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
LOL there it is again. No one "stole" the kids! If you insist on
speaking about the children as if they were merchandise, at most you could say
the government had them on rent-to-own.
CompassionPlease | 10:30 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
No matter what you call it, or which side of the issue you stand on, those
children were traumatized by the state's actions, contrary to the law, and
there should be monetary compensation.
realitycheck | 10:46 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
the kids weren't traumatized. they finally got to see how people live in
the real world, and to realize it's not the sodom and gommorah that all you
religious zealots said it is. maybe they can have a real life now....
Joey | 11:31 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
raelitycheck, I suggest to traipse over to the truthwillprevail site and read
the Willson's story, or go speak to the parents themselves. They ALL say
those children are having emotional problems now, ever since they were abducted
and held hostage by the state of Texas. They run scared for their lives whenever
CPS comes snooping. Young children have regressed to wearing diapers. This all
may have something to do with the aweful SANE examinations the state workers did
on them, on top of other intrusive medical exams. They are all scarred for life,
being forcefully separated from their mothers. It's a common predicament
for kids who have experienced foster care.
re: CompassionPlease | 11:33 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008
Oh of course the FLDS wants monetary compensation. I can only imagine how much
revenue they lost by having their 10-year-olds in state custody instead of out
working at construction sites or home feeding the livestock, picking vegetables
and tilling the fields.
Why don't we talk about how traumatizing it is to tell your kids that everyone outside their own small group is evil and damned?
Why don't we talk about how traumatizing it is to tell your kids that everyone outside their own small group is evil and damned?
Skyking44 | 12:03 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
Ripped away from your parents, made to live for weeks in squalid, overcrowded
conditions... Hospitalized from gerardia (sp?), food poisoning, dehydration, and
other illnesses brought about by your abductors... Unable to worship, kept up
all night by marathon questioning, bright lights, and loud noises... Finally
placed in the care of strangers who delight in exposing you to ideas, foods, and
customs foreign to you, while being hundreds of miles from your loved ones. This
is the real world?
realitycheck | 12:24 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
abducted? traumatized? read the truthwillprevail site? as if it's
actually telling the truth?
come on. we don't fall for your shenanigans anymore. You want sympathy? then stop handing over your daughters to statuatory rapists and stop worshiping a convicted felon.
you all are way out there, and you put your religion before your children every time. You want to be left alone? then put your family first and our religion second.
of course, we know you won't do that. so what's your next stop? Jonestown?
come on. we don't fall for your shenanigans anymore. You want sympathy? then stop handing over your daughters to statuatory rapists and stop worshiping a convicted felon.
you all are way out there, and you put your religion before your children every time. You want to be left alone? then put your family first and our religion second.
of course, we know you won't do that. so what's your next stop? Jonestown?
Joey | 1:31 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
realitycheck, if all the underage girls from YFZ were in such danger of being
married off, why are 9 out of 10 of them unmarried virgins?
I'll answer that question for you, since can't resist the urge to stereotype. These families are autonomous families. They behave differently. Some have said they would never allow their daughter to marry before 18. If a couple did, that's their fault, and their fault alone. Marriage in the FLDS (I'm not FLDS BTW) is a very private affair, and noone knows who's married to whom for the most part, unless the families are particularly close.
This was a relatively large community, with people coming and going. The police went in and painted them all with the same brush, and violated their Constitutional rights. They should have done things differently.
I'll answer that question for you, since can't resist the urge to stereotype. These families are autonomous families. They behave differently. Some have said they would never allow their daughter to marry before 18. If a couple did, that's their fault, and their fault alone. Marriage in the FLDS (I'm not FLDS BTW) is a very private affair, and noone knows who's married to whom for the most part, unless the families are particularly close.
This was a relatively large community, with people coming and going. The police went in and painted them all with the same brush, and violated their Constitutional rights. They should have done things differently.
realitycheck | 1:46 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
Joey -
the ONLY reason there were any unmarried underage girls was because Jeffs hadn't selected them for marriage yet. If you believe the parents wouldn't have done exactly what Jeffs said, then you are extremely naive.
the ONLY reason there were any unmarried underage girls was because Jeffs hadn't selected them for marriage yet. If you believe the parents wouldn't have done exactly what Jeffs said, then you are extremely naive.
Joey | 2:16 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
realitycheck, let the families speak for themselves. It's those exact
presumptions you are making that kick-started the illegal raid.
Gal50 | 8:15 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
While I understand that older children got to experience life in the real world,
younger children did suffer trauma when removed from their primary caregivers.
The caregivers need to realize that they should not have anything to do with
child predators.
Optimally, children under ten would get to stay near or with their parents and have supervised visitation. The problem is that the taxpayer doesn't want to pay for children all across the United States to be placed in a setting where there are a full-time supervisors and beds for parents.
The FLDS basically got what every other parent would get. There was a report of abuse, the FLDS were known to commit abuse.
These people were very clear that they didn't believe that Warren Jeffs was a child abuser even though a court found him guilty and there were photos showing him tongue kissing a 12 year-old. How can they protect their children from Warren Jeffs and others if they don't believe they need too? These children slept under a picture of what may be a child rapist. How much confidence would that give an investigator that these children are protected?
Optimally, children under ten would get to stay near or with their parents and have supervised visitation. The problem is that the taxpayer doesn't want to pay for children all across the United States to be placed in a setting where there are a full-time supervisors and beds for parents.
The FLDS basically got what every other parent would get. There was a report of abuse, the FLDS were known to commit abuse.
These people were very clear that they didn't believe that Warren Jeffs was a child abuser even though a court found him guilty and there were photos showing him tongue kissing a 12 year-old. How can they protect their children from Warren Jeffs and others if they don't believe they need too? These children slept under a picture of what may be a child rapist. How much confidence would that give an investigator that these children are protected?
Gal50 | 8:26 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
By the way, why aren't these men turning themselves in? Any theories? I
remember Merril Jessop seemed to disappear fairly quickly. Maybe one of the
warrants is for him. I was thinking that he may want all of the men to disappear
so that the forces looking for them would have to be allocated to each of the
disappearing men. Or he may want all of the men to disappear so that he
doesn't stand out and signal that the FLDS men at the top are chickens.
Another idea is that all of the men in this indictment were men at the top of
the power structure and so all of them have disappeared. The FLDS may not want
to bankroll the disappearance of all of the indicted men, but they may be
willing to bankroll those at the top. Maybe they are still planning to turn
themselves in.
gretchen | 8:30 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
If flds are such remarkable caregivers,why don't they know even about
crayons, deny the kids pets?Why do they brainwash so? Why has the head honcho of
the ranch not been seen since? Why is he not proud of his handiwork(abetted
pedophilia?)Ex-flds say the ones who remain in it know full well they are
breaking US laws. It is a big part of their religion to ignore laws and lie if
their leader tells them to. They are also taught from birth to treat non-flds
like the plague, so running when cps comes calling is just normal for these
people. They view all non-flds as destined for hell, every moment of every day.
Those who have left frequently say they are extremely sad these kids were
turned back over to this wretched belief system.Why are there hundreds of
ex-flds who keep reporting the same things- that they witnessed very frequent
abuse, serious depression, serious overwork, seriously poor education, and felt
sick with fear about their daughters' futures, so left this awful cult?
Why are the ones lucky enough to get out(before being assigned to
compounds,)completely ready to call this a dangerous cult in a way the news
often won't?
from GA | 9:39 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
To rip nursing children from their mothers' arms was flagrant abuse by CPS.
The FLDS obviously have issues, but the mothers and babies didn't deserve
the cruel and unusual punishment they were dealt.
re: from GA | 11:14 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
Nursing FLDS moms WERE allowed to stay with their babies. You need to read more
information than just the propaganda provided by angry FLDS members.
Hmm | 11:15 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008
from GA
The mothers new from there behavoir someday this would happen so dont tell me they were like deer in headlights
The mothers new from there behavoir someday this would happen so dont tell me they were like deer in headlights
Joey | 7:29 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008
Yes, some people think it's okay to rip one and two year olds from their
mothers for no good reason. The Nazis didn't have a problem with doing that
either.
re: Joey | 8:36 a.m. Nov. 20, 2008
Did you really need to prove Godwin's Law so early in the discussion?
Red | 3:09 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
Gal50 8:26 pm: "By the way, why aren't these men turning themselves
in?"
Well, one reason they aren't is that they have.
Most -- all? -- have already turned themselves in.
('Xcept Jeffs, of course -- his keepers wouldn't let him leave jail to go to TX)
Well, one reason they aren't is that they have.
Most -- all? -- have already turned themselves in.
('Xcept Jeffs, of course -- his keepers wouldn't let him leave jail to go to TX)
sarah king | 8:46 a.m. Nov. 26, 2008
why is it ok for the government to steal over 400 kids and take away the rights
of a whole religion.
these people are very misunderstood, and the media made them all look like devils. hurting a religion because they are different, is stupid and wrong.
The Government should Apologize! and pay each kid $10 thousand for what the government did to them.
these people are very misunderstood, and the media made them all look like devils. hurting a religion because they are different, is stupid and wrong.
The Government should Apologize! and pay each kid $10 thousand for what the government did to them.
zxcvbnm | 11:40 a.m. Nov. 28, 2008
Yep gal 50....life in the real world.
The children were introduced to dogs as therapy......in violation of their religious teachings.
The children were taken to the beach.....in violation of their religious teachimg.
The kids were dressed in cloths that violated their religious and social dress code.
Lets take all the Catholics and give them fish on friday classes or introduce LDS to caffine. How about mandate a dance at a private Baptist school.
See how long it takes to get the ACLU involved in a civil rights suit if Moslems were forced to eat pork.
DeputyHeadmistress | 6:19 p.m. Nov. 30, 2008
Nursing mothers were NOT allowed to stay with their babies if the babies were
older than 12 months. Babies over 12 mos were forcibly weaned, and that is
traumatic to young children.
And the FLDS children do know what crayons are. That's just one of several silly and demonstrably false allegations made.
CPS and the state of Texas blew it, traumatizing young children for life and all on the basis of a lie.
It's also false that they don't have pets- I've seen pictures of the children with parakeets. They have toys, as well- photographs of the children taken before the raid show them with blocks, sand toys, coloring, fingerpainting, and more. Their classroom shows posters that have been colored with crayons, markers, and colored pencils.
The no crayons story is a slanderous bit of gossip started by Helen Pfluger, & her story has changed (she first gave crayons to one FLDS woman *the night of the raid*, and she asked, "what are we supposed to do with these?" Not because she didn't know, but because she didn't want to color, she wanted to go HOME.
And the FLDS children do know what crayons are. That's just one of several silly and demonstrably false allegations made.
CPS and the state of Texas blew it, traumatizing young children for life and all on the basis of a lie.
It's also false that they don't have pets- I've seen pictures of the children with parakeets. They have toys, as well- photographs of the children taken before the raid show them with blocks, sand toys, coloring, fingerpainting, and more. Their classroom shows posters that have been colored with crayons, markers, and colored pencils.
The no crayons story is a slanderous bit of gossip started by Helen Pfluger, & her story has changed (she first gave crayons to one FLDS woman *the night of the raid*, and she asked, "what are we supposed to do with these?" Not because she didn't know, but because she didn't want to color, she wanted to go HOME.
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