Deseret News | FLDS leader's lawyers to question anti-polygamy activist

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FLDS leader's lawyers to question anti-polygamy activist

Joey | 3:29 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

As evidence of underage marriage, Texas authorities claim they saw several pregnant teenagers. Hugh McBride, aka the "Modern Pharisee" questioned Crimmins about these alleged pregnant teenagers CPS workers "saw" groping the grounds in the middle of the night. Crimmins' answer? "Two girls gave birth while in custody." The only problem with this answer, is that those two "girls" were adults, they had "mistaken" to be teenagers. One was 18, the other 22. The authorities were grasping at straws to find probable cause to proceed with the Dawn Raid. In the end they just had to lie about what they saw, and continue to do so. The raid was carried out knowingly on false premises.

what? | 4:05 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

there were underage marriages and now there are several indictments for sexual assault of a child and soon there will be several convictions for sexual assault of a child.

the eighteen year old who had a baby while she was in custody? how old do you think she was when she conceived? she also has a three year old - how old do you think she was when she conceived (in texas by the way)? do the math. the crime does not go away just because she reached the age of majority.

That's right...grasping at straw | 4:48 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Nobbody condones dishonesty and it's not right to make false telephone calls. But there have been numerous reports that have nothing to do with the phone call. That's like saying "my house isn't on fire as reported so just ignore those thieves that you see." Another wrong does not make a right.

Comments continue below

Joey | 5:02 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Great. So they see one 18 year old with a kid (geeze, how many of those do we see around), and they haul off 465 children on suspicion they are all about to be molested? And tear all their homes apart? Give me a break.

Andrea | 5:36 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Joey,
You need to educate yourself on this. Yes, there were adults that initially got classified as children. The adults were moved once things got straightened out. There were records of more then just one underage girl having children. There were more then a few minors who had children at the time of the raid. There were also records of underage weddings and records of Warren Jeffs kissing two underage girls in wedding and anniversary photos. One of the girls was 12 at the time.

Taking all the children was overreaching but, there were some real concerns about the girls in the community's safety.

Joey | 5:51 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Andrea, it's easy to gloss over the fact to justify what CPS has done; however, as of yet, we know of only one minor, not "more than a few," ONE minor, a 17 year old, who had a child at the time of the raid. Those are the facts.

Now you start to talk about "records." Well, let me tell you something, it's a heck of a lot easier to plant fabricated "records" than it is to come up with real live pregnant teenagers. That much is a fact.

STATISTICS | 5:57 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

[FLDS & NON-FLDS]Parenting & Family
Presented by
Survey: Unprotected sex common among teens
On average, [NON-FLDS] girls lose virginity at 15; some are having sex at school

Blubber nut comments | 6:03 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Nobody wants to ever believe that the government ( in this case cps) crosses the line. Nobody wants to believe that they could be next in line- but you could be so be careful what you force others into.

Andrea | 10:53 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Joey,

There are only a few known case to the public, there are more cases that have not been released because they involve minors. There are doctor records that show multiple underage girls giving birth. Of the cases of underage girls having babies that have been made public, one is one of jeffs girls who has two children at the age of 17, and a women who conceived her first child before she was marred (legally) at age 16. This womens husband has now been charged. The FLDS were practicing underage marriages and there were underage mothers.

I do think that it was wrong to remove all the children but there is evidence to show that children were in danger.

Johnny Utah #9 | 11:23 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Re: STATISTICS | 5:57 p.m.

The difference is, most of the [NON-FLDS] girls losing their virginity at age 15, lose it willingly to boys of the same age. And yes, there are some that lose their virginity and have sex with men over the age of 18, and guess what??? That makes those men statutory rapists and felons.

Joey | 5:15 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Andrea: "there's evidence to show that children were in danger"

-----------

Who's children? Yours? If one family on your block had gotten their daughter pregnant several years ago when she was 16 (possibly in another state), does that mean YOUR children are in danger RIGHT NOW, and the cops MUST go through YOUR house and take your computers and children's diaries, and take your children for two months for extensive physical and psychological testing???
Get real.

Anonymous | 7:08 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Johnny Utah #9 | 11:23 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008

COMPLAIN TO USNEWS WORLD REPORT FOR THIS ARTICLE

Andrea | 8:47 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Joey,
I already said it but I will say it again.

I do think that CPS over stepped their boundaries by removing all the children. There were children in danger and they needed to be protected but not at the emotional expense of the other children.

realitycheck | 8:50 a.m. Nov. 19, 2008

underage girls marrying older men IS IN THEIR CHURCH DOCTRINE!!! what don't you get, Joey? They FREELY ADMIT THIS. In an interview last month with a Barlow, he was (again) told that was illegal and he said (and I quote) "if they want to do it, why should we stop them?"

suprised they let any girls between 10 and 18 go back to their parents. They trade their daughters to get on the good side of their masters (I mean leaders).

Kay | 12:06 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

The FLDS will probably be around for a while & while I respect religious freedom & people living not among mainstream socities..this is NOT 1855 anymore. AZ & UT have gone years turning a blind eye to this BS & while I'm not a proud Texan I'm glad TX stepped in. I don't think Warren will EVER be free & the other men indicted will all be convicted b/c TX doesn't mess around with child abuse cases.

TO WARREN JEFFS: Don't Mess with Texas!

Cochise | 1:28 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

I am a Texan and was involved in the legal defense of the FLDS families. After two months of incarceration, CPS was able to point to one [1] girl who may have been involved in an underage "marriage."

Andrea | 5:57 p.m. Nov. 19, 2008

Cochise ,
Excuse me while I sound doubtful. There have been evidence of more then one girl being involved in an underage marriage released to the public. There have been more then one indictment towards more then one person involving sexual abuse of a minor.

Saying that you were part of the legal defense, is not going to earn you credibility on the internet. We all hide behind computer screens. For all you know, I could be some old man. There is no evidence to support your clam and there is certantly no evidence to show that I am an 80 year old man.

menagainstpolygamy | 1:46 p.m. Nov. 29, 2008

Everyone should read "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop to understand why this phenomenon is so dangerous. Ideology allows men to trade and treat women like chattle. Sexual, psychological abuse is rampant... Women are completely disempowered, forced even to hand over their paychecks to their husbands. Instead of being able to establish normal relationships with boys their own age, male leaders receive "revelations" on behalf young girls, strip them away from their families, and force them to marry fat, hairy uncles. Most wedding nights are akin to rape rather than consentual sex, even if the girls are of age. Wake up America. Protect women and children instead of cowering under the first amendment, religious freedom, and the constitution.

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