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Lee Benson: BYU president is alumnus of red; Utah's graduated blue
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BillBob | 12:48 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
And the University of Utah was founded by Brigham Young. Go figure Ute fans.
:-D
Re: BillBob | 3:37 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Exactly- Brigham Young founded the University of Utah - but wasn't the
founder of BYU. And the current LDS church president was a graduate of the U,
not BYU. Go figure Cougar fans :)
Anonymous | 5:47 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
HA!! they're all PURPLE!
Comments continue below
Matthew | 6:00 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
A short time after founding the University of Deseret, Brigham Young ordered a
small satellite school to be built about 50 miles south, and it remains there to
this day.
Class Acts | 6:03 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I hope all of the fans during this week can be as classy as the respective
leaders of each institution. A clean fun rivalry can't be beat.
School of the prophets | 6:47 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
It used to be the school of the prophets mostly because it was one of the only
real university options, but by in large, the prophets and church leaders who
went there 50 plus years ago have sent and send their kids to BYU. BYU is
today, what Brigham Young intended the University of Deseret to be. The
University of Utah is a solid state school for Utah but it isn't what the
church intended the University of Deseret to become. In the scourging days of
the church, Salt Lake became the hang out for federal anti-LDS judges and they
recruited and developed an anti-LDS aristocracy at the university. The
university changed forever as it became a bastion of LDS bashing. Every once in
a while it has an LDS president (young, talmage, widstoe) who mend the divide
and temper the religious bashing but that "intellectually free"
element of the university will always exist as a state school. Many good people
have gone and continue to go to the U, but BYU is the University of the Church
and the modern representation of the original university.
MAYHEM MIKE | 7:04 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Looks like both university presidents needed the benefits the other school
offered. . .
Lil Mel | 7:14 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
What a fun, clever article. I had no idea. This makes the rivalry more fun,
which is what it should be.
Wow | 7:35 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Because we haven't known this for 5 years. Thanks for the news flash.
Cats | 8:13 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
To Re: Billbob: President Monson got his MBA at BYU.
I actually went to both schools. There are a lot of good people at Utah. However, in all honesty, I must admit that leaving Utah and transferring into BYU was like coming from the darkness into the light.
Both coaches are great and both teams are great. Both teams have a lot of great guys on them. I hope we can have a great game and treat each other with respect and friendship. I know the coaches and the players will. I hope the fans will.
GO COUGARS!!!
I actually went to both schools. There are a lot of good people at Utah. However, in all honesty, I must admit that leaving Utah and transferring into BYU was like coming from the darkness into the light.
Both coaches are great and both teams are great. Both teams have a lot of great guys on them. I hope we can have a great game and treat each other with respect and friendship. I know the coaches and the players will. I hope the fans will.
GO COUGARS!!!
Anonymous | 8:37 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Go Utes, otherwise Boise State will be the BCS Buster. You have hung in there all season and it is time you got the reward for your consistency. BYU has too much pride and there is too much image of Mormonism tied up in their quest. I'm all for a complete break of church and state. You are the ones who deserve to win. Go Utes.
Both of them can see clearly | 8:38 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Harline, is still open.
Anonymous | 8:47 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
It is ironic that this rivalry in some eyes has become a "Holy War,"
missing the deep connections between the two institutions. Beyond the two
Presidents, it is worth remembering that the U is coached by a BYU alum, and
several of his coaches are BYU grads. It is worth celebrating the fact that both
are excellent schools who happen to have very competitive football programs.
bottomline | 8:53 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
byu is weak and will lose and go to blue turf bowl
utah goes BACK to fiesta bowl
utah goes BACK to fiesta bowl
Carl | 9:22 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I can tell you the score of the game before they play the first down--zero to
zero. I would love to see Utah go undefeated, but two teams with only one loss
looks great. My prediction: BYU 29 Utah 27
Re: Cats | 9:27 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
"...leaving Utah and transferring into BYU was like coming from the
darkness into the light."
I beg to differ. While I spent my freshman year at BYU, I realized what an academically stifling uncommonly homogenous community that exists there, and transferred North to the U. At the U, "conventional" wisdom could be challenged, "independent thought" was invoked, and "critical thinking skills" were magnified.
It was like coming from the darkness into the light.
Having attended both universities, I'm well aware of the perceptions the student bodies have of each other. Y students feel that SLC and the U are some sort of den of iniquity, and that students who go there only do so because they couldn't gain admission to the Y. In my 3 yrs at the U, I'd met TWO students who fit that description. I found there are intellectuals existing at both schools, as well as those whom I wonder how they even graduated from H.S.
At the Y, most students I knew said they chose the Y over ______ University because of the spiritual aspect. I feel, if the Y is the only place they can find that, it's a terrible spiritual handicap.
GO UTES!!!
I beg to differ. While I spent my freshman year at BYU, I realized what an academically stifling uncommonly homogenous community that exists there, and transferred North to the U. At the U, "conventional" wisdom could be challenged, "independent thought" was invoked, and "critical thinking skills" were magnified.
It was like coming from the darkness into the light.
Having attended both universities, I'm well aware of the perceptions the student bodies have of each other. Y students feel that SLC and the U are some sort of den of iniquity, and that students who go there only do so because they couldn't gain admission to the Y. In my 3 yrs at the U, I'd met TWO students who fit that description. I found there are intellectuals existing at both schools, as well as those whom I wonder how they even graduated from H.S.
At the Y, most students I knew said they chose the Y over ______ University because of the spiritual aspect. I feel, if the Y is the only place they can find that, it's a terrible spiritual handicap.
GO UTES!!!
A fan! | 9:44 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Good luck to both teams and may the best, hard working team and school win!
Digbads | 9:53 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I too attended both Universities. My kids attend BYU. I became a bigger BYU
football fan during my 2 years of grad school at the U. Dealing with Wayne
Howard's knucklehead football players as a chemistry TA was my biggest
motivator.
Cats | 9:58 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
TO Re: Cats: I was waiting for someone to come on and say what you said.
People at U of U have such a chip on their shoulder about BYU--especially a lot
of LDS. Anybody who feels stifled at BYU shouldn't be there. Believe me
there are plenty of people who are dying to be there, so go your way and let
someone else attend. But, if you have problems with the standards at BYU, you
need to take a look at yourself.
I consider the fact that I graduated from BYU to be one of the greatest blessings of my life. If you are someone who doesn't appreciate the spirit and special atmoshere at BYU, you shouldn't be there. Go to a state University like Utah where you feel more comfortable. But, there are many things that are missing there. I know this from personal experience.
BYU is a VERY SPECIAL PLACE WITH A SPECIAL MISSION and many people have the insight and maturity to realize that. If you don't, then go somewhere else.
I consider the fact that I graduated from BYU to be one of the greatest blessings of my life. If you are someone who doesn't appreciate the spirit and special atmoshere at BYU, you shouldn't be there. Go to a state University like Utah where you feel more comfortable. But, there are many things that are missing there. I know this from personal experience.
BYU is a VERY SPECIAL PLACE WITH A SPECIAL MISSION and many people have the insight and maturity to realize that. If you don't, then go somewhere else.
Cougute! | 10:41 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Alright everyone... let's settle down or someones going to get their eye
poked out!
It's going to be a great game so,
GO Utes... I mean Go Cougs.... Oh Whatever!!
It's going to be a great game so,
GO Utes... I mean Go Cougs.... Oh Whatever!!
Re: Cats | 9:58 a.m. | 10:50 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
"...if you have problems with the standards at BYU, you need to take a look
at yourself...BYU is a VERY SPECIAL PLACE WITH A SPECIAL MISSION and many people
have the insight and maturity to realize that."
People at the Y have such a chip on their shoulders about Utah - especially against the LDS students not in awe of all things BYU. Comments such as the ones quoted above are common among those self-righteous members who often insecure in their own spirituality, and fear being persecuted for their [narrow] beliefs. It takes a special brand of insight and maturity to realize that we don't need to be told what to think, nor need we to be commanded in all things.
Incidentally, most major post-secondary schools have Institute classes for scripture study much like BYU�s Religion classes. You just don�t get college credit for it.
BYU is indeed a �VERY SPECIAL PLACE WITH A SPECIAL MISSION�, so if you NEED somebody to hold your hand all the way through college, this truly is the place.
You may also need to take a look at yourself.
People at the Y have such a chip on their shoulders about Utah - especially against the LDS students not in awe of all things BYU. Comments such as the ones quoted above are common among those self-righteous members who often insecure in their own spirituality, and fear being persecuted for their [narrow] beliefs. It takes a special brand of insight and maturity to realize that we don't need to be told what to think, nor need we to be commanded in all things.
Incidentally, most major post-secondary schools have Institute classes for scripture study much like BYU�s Religion classes. You just don�t get college credit for it.
BYU is indeed a �VERY SPECIAL PLACE WITH A SPECIAL MISSION�, so if you NEED somebody to hold your hand all the way through college, this truly is the place.
You may also need to take a look at yourself.
Old News | 11:42 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Same thing every year. Benson, you're a columnist, find something
worthwhile to write about!
To: School of the Prophets | 11:49 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
"they recruited and developed an anti-LDS aristocracy at the university.
The university changed forever as it became a bastion of LDS bashing."
Do you even know the history of the U? A good majority of the buildings at the U bear names of great academic minds who were respected members of the faculty and also members of the LDS Church. To name a few: David P. Gardner, Libby Gardner, Henry B. Eyring, Robert L. Rice, J. Willard Marriott, Jon M. Huntsman, James C. Fletcher, David Eccles, Kent and Sally Burbidge, and the list goes on and on.
The U is rich in tradition and history from all religions and backgrounds which makes it a truly unique experience for all of its students. Stop trying to take away from that history with comments that are not true.
And learn how to do a bit more research. Google would be a good start.
Do you even know the history of the U? A good majority of the buildings at the U bear names of great academic minds who were respected members of the faculty and also members of the LDS Church. To name a few: David P. Gardner, Libby Gardner, Henry B. Eyring, Robert L. Rice, J. Willard Marriott, Jon M. Huntsman, James C. Fletcher, David Eccles, Kent and Sally Burbidge, and the list goes on and on.
The U is rich in tradition and history from all religions and backgrounds which makes it a truly unique experience for all of its students. Stop trying to take away from that history with comments that are not true.
And learn how to do a bit more research. Google would be a good start.
Cats | 11:59 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
To Re: Cats 9:58: About Maturity--I rest my case.
The math | 12:25 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Boise State is overranked. They are riding on nostalgia of the Oklahoma game.
They should be ranked about 20th (based on teams played and margin of
victory).
Utah should be ranked 9th. They've had a great season with victories over very good teams.
BYU should be ranked 19th. They've struggled this year, though they've continued to win.
I'm a BYU grad and cougar fan, so I'm rooting for a statistical anomoly and a BYU win.
Utah should be ranked 9th. They've had a great season with victories over very good teams.
BYU should be ranked 19th. They've struggled this year, though they've continued to win.
I'm a BYU grad and cougar fan, so I'm rooting for a statistical anomoly and a BYU win.
Linda | 12:26 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
It is so nice to discuss something so "American" as a football rivalry
instead of all the political rhetoric we are being bombarded with recently. By
the way--Go Cougars !!
Jeff | 12:27 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Just remember how lucky you are in this state. I am a transplant from Utah to
Washinton where we are playing the biggest looser game of the century. Washigton
vs Washinton State. 1 win between both teams this year for the prestegious apple
cup. BYU wins by three and If they don't go Utes.
Artemisia Tridentata | 12:39 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Actually, "School of the Prophets", the BYU-I is a lot closer to what
Brother Brigham had in mind than BYU or UofU. It is what BYU could be. (and
probably should be.) Perhaps giving up intercollegate football would be a good
start.
Mark in Peoria | 12:47 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
re: Artemisia
BYU give up football?...not going to happen. There is a lot to be gained by the sport: it pays for other athletics at the school and brings notoriety to the campus.
Go Utes!
BYU give up football?...not going to happen. There is a lot to be gained by the sport: it pays for other athletics at the school and brings notoriety to the campus.
Go Utes!
Washington Cougar | 12:56 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Out side of Utah except for a few barbs, there seems to be respect between the
two schools. One of my best friends is a Ute and my young brilliant corporate
attorney is a Ute. I love BYU, but I respect UTAH. It is excellent university
and it's medical facilities are wonderful. I would not be diappointed if
one of my remaining two kids at home went to Utah. ( BYU is cheaper ) I have
been to a Utah-BYU game and I have a hard time understanding F...you BYU. Do
those morons know where their head coach went to school? I give the Utes a nod
on this however, greater speed and home field is large hurtle to jump for the
Cougs.
Re: Cats | 9:58 a.m. | 10:50 a.m | 12:59 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
AWESOME! SIMPLY AWESOME! Well stated.
I live in SoCal. You can always tell the BYU grads in church. Last month, we had some guy in our joint Priesthood-Relief Society session stand up and tell everyone how much non-members and less-active members LOVE having the missionaries over in their homes and the spirit they bring with them. He really believes it too.
He just graduated from the Y last semester.
I live in SoCal. You can always tell the BYU grads in church. Last month, we had some guy in our joint Priesthood-Relief Society session stand up and tell everyone how much non-members and less-active members LOVE having the missionaries over in their homes and the spirit they bring with them. He really believes it too.
He just graduated from the Y last semester.
Anon | 1:01 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Glad the Mr. Benson has a fax number listed so we can send him faxes.
That's my favored means of communication.
Gus | 1:16 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I'm gonna send a fax right now.
A Daughter's Father | 1:20 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
My daughter went to the U for one year and came away very unhappy saying she
wasn't going back even though scholarship money was available, which she
had been using. Being a BYU graduate myself and a big BYU fan I had mixed
feelings about this. On the one hand I didn't like the fact that she was
going to the U. On the other hand, there was the scholarship and she was going
to college.
The reason she left was because of the professors. Some of them asked their classes at the start of the school year if anyone in the class was a member of the LDS Church. Then they would find opportunites almost every class period to say something negative or derogatory about the Church and basically challenge any of the Church members present to refute it. By the way, she was majoring in art, not political science or debate.
I'm glad she got out of that situation and that for her money was not everything.
The reason she left was because of the professors. Some of them asked their classes at the start of the school year if anyone in the class was a member of the LDS Church. Then they would find opportunites almost every class period to say something negative or derogatory about the Church and basically challenge any of the Church members present to refute it. By the way, she was majoring in art, not political science or debate.
I'm glad she got out of that situation and that for her money was not everything.
Big Ten University Professor | 1:23 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
The best post was that of Artemisia at 12:39 pm suggesting that BYU give up
intercollegiate football. I favor this plus giving up all intercollegiate
athletics. The University of Chicago (my almamater) did precisely that in order
to maintain its high academic standards, and is a much better school than BYU, U
of U, and nearly every other school in the country. We should put college
athletics in its proper place, behind academics. Why should someone get a
scholarship to a place of learning because they can throw a football 60 yards
with precision? Give scholarships to scholars, not athletes. BYU has an
interesting dilemma: Beat Utah and lose money, or lose to Utah and get money
from Utah's BCS income. This dilemma is an example of the danger of
misplaced priorities at universities.
Re: A Daughter's Father | 1:38 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I'm LDS. I was a student at the U back in the mid-90s. In my 4 yrs, never
had any of my professors inquired as to the religious affiliations of anyone.
However, on many occasions (not to be interpreted as an everyday occurrence),
fellow LDS students would inject their religious convictions into the lectures.
Thankfully, they never bore their testimonies...at least not IN class.
I wasn't PolySci either. I majored in Finance.
My point is not what you claim to have happened to your daughter was false. How would I know? I am just saying that your daughter's experience is NOT common on the Hill. In fact, professors often tried to avoid those types of discussions as immaterial to the subject matter and/or may have feared a discrimination charge.
I wasn't PolySci either. I majored in Finance.
My point is not what you claim to have happened to your daughter was false. How would I know? I am just saying that your daughter's experience is NOT common on the Hill. In fact, professors often tried to avoid those types of discussions as immaterial to the subject matter and/or may have feared a discrimination charge.
RE: A daughter's father | 1:40 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Can any other Utah grads comment on the claim that UofU professors ask their
students if they are LDS? I can't imagine that happening very often.
I'm certainly aware that some of the professors at the U aren't
enthralled with much about the LDS Church, and that some are openly hostile to
it, but I find it hard to believe that very many make a point of asking their
students to self-identify so that they can use them as scapegoats for their
anti-church gripes. My guess is that this is rare.
As for football, I love it when the Cougs beat the Utes. LOVE it. But you won't hear me trash-talking about the school or its students and alumni, which include many of my good friends (and my wife).
As for football, I love it when the Cougs beat the Utes. LOVE it. But you won't hear me trash-talking about the school or its students and alumni, which include many of my good friends (and my wife).
Re: Big 10 Univ. Prof. | 1:57 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Amen to giving up intercollegiate athletics altogether. Or at the very least,
enacting sweeping changes to the system. Whenever touchdowns, along with all the
other wasted time and energy worshiping sports, takes priority over academics,
research, scholarship, and career preparation, the result is a surefire formula
for declining excellence and mediocrity.
Student athletes are under so much time and performance pressure that even those who are diligent students have difficulty doing their best in the classroom because of the demands of their sport. Collegiate athletics have become a year-round endeavor, and it needs to be seriously modified so that universities can more effectively do what they were created for in the first place: prepare individuals for the future.
Maybe the best answer is to raise the bar for student athletes to receive and maintain their scholarship: make the scholarship an academic one first, and an athletic one second. High standards and emphasis on academics or no athletic participation. If this were the standard at every school in the country, the emphasis to learn well or no play would permeate down to the K-12 level as well. Everyone, and I mean everyone, would be better off for it.
Student athletes are under so much time and performance pressure that even those who are diligent students have difficulty doing their best in the classroom because of the demands of their sport. Collegiate athletics have become a year-round endeavor, and it needs to be seriously modified so that universities can more effectively do what they were created for in the first place: prepare individuals for the future.
Maybe the best answer is to raise the bar for student athletes to receive and maintain their scholarship: make the scholarship an academic one first, and an athletic one second. High standards and emphasis on academics or no athletic participation. If this were the standard at every school in the country, the emphasis to learn well or no play would permeate down to the K-12 level as well. Everyone, and I mean everyone, would be better off for it.
re: A daughter's father | 2:18 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
"Can any other Utah grads comment on the claim that UofU professors ask
their students if they are LDS?"
I'm a Utah alum, and yes there are professors at the U who seem to go out of their way to make disparaging remarks about the LDS church; it wasn't daily, and I never had a professor ask specifically if any of the class members were LDS, but it wasn't difficult to tell if there were LDS students in the class.
Most students simply chose to ignore the insults, but there were occassions where a professor would say something particularly egregious and a student or two would challenge the professor.
I'm a Utah alum, and yes there are professors at the U who seem to go out of their way to make disparaging remarks about the LDS church; it wasn't daily, and I never had a professor ask specifically if any of the class members were LDS, but it wasn't difficult to tell if there were LDS students in the class.
Most students simply chose to ignore the insults, but there were occassions where a professor would say something particularly egregious and a student or two would challenge the professor.
Red Man | 2:19 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Thank you Dr. Samuelson for your continued support and monetary contributions to
the cause. GO UTES!!
See the Girl | 2:21 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
See the girl in the advertisement (holding the baby with a scared look)? Well,
that is a prototype of all Cougar fan's faces on 11/22/08.
viking | 2:25 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Ricks College is way better than either the Y or the U. Let's get serious
now!!!
Boise State | 2:35 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Go Cougards, beat the Utards so the real team the country wants to watch in the
BCS can get in.
Boise State is waiting in the wings, fresh from a weaker SOS than Utard's pathetic schedule, ready to wow the country like we did in 2007. None of these snoozers like 2004 against Pitt. Bring on the Broncos!
Go Kittys!
Boise State is waiting in the wings, fresh from a weaker SOS than Utard's pathetic schedule, ready to wow the country like we did in 2007. None of these snoozers like 2004 against Pitt. Bring on the Broncos!
Go Kittys!
re: A daughter's father | 2:37 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I recieved two degrees from the U and was never asked that question in all my
time being there.
Ute in Philadelphia | 2:50 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
The closest experience I ever had with professors injecting religion in the
classroom was in my Greek Mythology class; and religion was centered around the
Greeks. Nothing to do with the LDS.
BYU Fan | 3:04 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I want BYU to win, but what about the benefits of a loss. the Mountain West
Conference splits millions of dollars, by having Utah in a BCS bowl game? not a
bad consolation prize for BYU? But on the other hand we would have to listen to
all the Ute fans rant and rave for a year. So kiss the millions goodbye. BYU
34 Utah 28. And yes someone will be open..........................
Rich | 3:30 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
They are both traitors to their true colors!
I resign my degree from the Y. I cannot participate in a school that has a heathen leading it. A godless heathen that voted for Obama!
No sir, I am heading up to Ricks, where the politics are the only "Red" thing that blessed city.
I resign my degree from the Y. I cannot participate in a school that has a heathen leading it. A godless heathen that voted for Obama!
No sir, I am heading up to Ricks, where the politics are the only "Red" thing that blessed city.
re: Big Ten University Professor | 3:41 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I would suggest starting with getting the school where you teach to drop all
sports programs. While you're at it, you should get them to drop their
music and other fine arts programs as well. And all those history, philosophy,
and socialogy classes, get rid of them. Afterall, entertainment and
understanding each other is over-rated. We should only be using our scare
academic resources to teach hard science and business. Nothing else matters.
Does it?
Of course, you'll have to drop the "Big Ten" from your university professor title, since there won't be a "Big Ten" anymore.
Does it?
Of course, you'll have to drop the "Big Ten" from your university professor title, since there won't be a "Big Ten" anymore.
California Cougar | 4:06 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
I fear for the soul of President Hinckley. He graduated from the U and
appointed a U Man to be the President of BYU. Pretty much the unpardonable sin.
Beck is still crying | 4:08 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Wow, I can still see it now.
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