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Gay-rights activists call for LDS help
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Hot Diggi ty Dog | 1:00 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
This argument is going nowhere. There will always be those who DO NOT BELIEVE IN
HOMOSEXUALITY. So all you guys need to give it up! You cannot change the minds
and thoughts of people who are against the "PRACTICE" of
homosexuality..
Shrewd Move, Equality Utah! | 1:00 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
Excellent, better than a protest, better than petitions to eliminate mormon
tax-exempt status.
This is a constructive use of anger. If successful, the rights of families in Utah will be extended. If it fails, then the hypocrisy of the mormon leadership will be exposed and their anti-gay purpose even more in the open for all to see.
Ask them to stand up to their words. If they do, then perhaps the rift might start to be healed. If they don't, then the mormon leadership will be exposed as hypocrites and bigots. They said it was about marriage and not about gay people and that they were willing to allow our families some rights as long as we don't call it marriage. They are on record as saying so. Let's hold them to their word.
This is a constructive use of anger. If successful, the rights of families in Utah will be extended. If it fails, then the hypocrisy of the mormon leadership will be exposed and their anti-gay purpose even more in the open for all to see.
Ask them to stand up to their words. If they do, then perhaps the rift might start to be healed. If they don't, then the mormon leadership will be exposed as hypocrites and bigots. They said it was about marriage and not about gay people and that they were willing to allow our families some rights as long as we don't call it marriage. They are on record as saying so. Let's hold them to their word.
To CaliforniaGal | 1:09 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
"I am a firm believer in Christ and living a Christ like life. I stand for
his teachings to love the sinner but not the sin."
Jesus did not preach this. It is not in the Bible. It was said by Mahatma Gandhi on one of his not so good days and it has been used to beat people up. It has been used to do violence to people ever since. Something Gandhi would never ever have wished. Something Jesus would not approve of either.
Jesus did not preach this. It is not in the Bible. It was said by Mahatma Gandhi on one of his not so good days and it has been used to beat people up. It has been used to do violence to people ever since. Something Gandhi would never ever have wished. Something Jesus would not approve of either.
Comments continue below
realitycheck | 3:19 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
the problem is - you mormons are pushing your morals onto others, when your
morals are based on a book written by men back in the dark ages.... and on
another book written by a guy that claims to have talked to God back in the
1800s...
and then regularly you have leaders that say they had a revelation... AND YOU BELIEVE THEM!!!! that right there makes you very strange - and you want us to adhere to your ways? r u serious?
why do you insist on pushing your bizarre, old-school ways on every one else? either join the 21st century or keep your judgementalism to yourself...
and then regularly you have leaders that say they had a revelation... AND YOU BELIEVE THEM!!!! that right there makes you very strange - and you want us to adhere to your ways? r u serious?
why do you insist on pushing your bizarre, old-school ways on every one else? either join the 21st century or keep your judgementalism to yourself...
to hev | 4:52 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
Thank you for your reply. I like what you say. Especially about not judging
others. Reading some of the posts here, I see just that-- people judging other
people. I believe we ought to be a little more considerate of what we say. And
that goes also for the way we use scriptures, I think. S&G is the story (as
it appears) of a violent, degenerated people. Even if they were homo- or
bisexual back then, I think we miss the mark, if we reduce the story to sexual
orientation. The gay people I know, are some of the nicest people I ever met.
They are no more practising the sins of S&G than you and I. It is offensive,
I believe, to say they are. The same goes for the scripture in 1 Corinthians
e.g., where it talks about prostitution and not homosexuality. Translations in
other languages make that clearer.
RE: Hot Diggi ty Dog | 9:17 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
"This argument is going nowhere."
You must be new at this.
You must be new at this.
re: what a dumb agenda | 9:20 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
"Gays should seek human rights w/o asking the church to back their
unions."
It is silly asking the church to help with human rights.
It is silly asking the church to help with human rights.
anonymous | 10:09 p.m. Nov. 20, 2008
you want it all.....
hideous behavior towards the votes on Prop 8 not only towards the Church, but towards others, now you want them to hurry up and answer your pleas for help! Hmmmmm a bit contradictory don't you think?
hideous behavior towards the votes on Prop 8 not only towards the Church, but towards others, now you want them to hurry up and answer your pleas for help! Hmmmmm a bit contradictory don't you think?
Stay Firm in our Actions | 6:55 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008
We need to stand for something and stay strong on our Actions. Don't bend.
First something small like giving gays benefits as couples will make the entry
to legal marriage in the forseeable future. Once it happens, I will home school
my children so they don't have to see the parents as two men or two women.
It's not right.
J | 7:30 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008
For the arguments using the American Psychiatric Association or the American
Psychological Association, be careful. I was earning my psychology degree in
the era that homosexuality was removed from the DSM (manual of diagnoses). It
was not based on science, and really was not completely political correctness,
either. At that time psychiatry was struggling to have credibility in medicine,
often derided as a "pseudoscience." A lot of pressure was placed on
them to remove it and they did. It was political pressure, not correctness.
History is now rewritten and most will not admit this, but as a witness to those
changes, it is very real.
It is an "alternative lifestyle" because it is an alternative from what is normal. Even Darwin would have to admit that it would be hard to survive if procreation (which last I checked requires a man and woman) were not a part of society. Whether youi can twist around that with adoption, surrogacy, etc., does not take away that such behavior deviates from what is necessary for survival. It wouldn't have worked if it was Eve and Eve.
It is an "alternative lifestyle" because it is an alternative from what is normal. Even Darwin would have to admit that it would be hard to survive if procreation (which last I checked requires a man and woman) were not a part of society. Whether youi can twist around that with adoption, surrogacy, etc., does not take away that such behavior deviates from what is necessary for survival. It wouldn't have worked if it was Eve and Eve.
To J | 8:35 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008
"It is an "alternative lifestyle" because it is an alternative
from what is normal."
So is being left handed. So is being red headed. It does not have to be a big deal. If we take our judgements out of it, it is just being different.
"Even Darwin would have to admit that it would be hard to survive if procreation (which last I checked requires a man and woman) were not a part of society."
No one is trying to change EVERYONE to become gay. Only 3-5% of the population is homosexual and that has been consistant throughout time - Just like about 10% of the population will be left handed. They are just looking for the rights that all Americans should enjoy per our constitution.
Gays are glad that there are heterosexuals and that they are having children and raising them. They are not trying to make everyone exactly alike. The only ones that I see trying to do that are the religious heterosexuals.
Live and let love.
So is being left handed. So is being red headed. It does not have to be a big deal. If we take our judgements out of it, it is just being different.
"Even Darwin would have to admit that it would be hard to survive if procreation (which last I checked requires a man and woman) were not a part of society."
No one is trying to change EVERYONE to become gay. Only 3-5% of the population is homosexual and that has been consistant throughout time - Just like about 10% of the population will be left handed. They are just looking for the rights that all Americans should enjoy per our constitution.
Gays are glad that there are heterosexuals and that they are having children and raising them. They are not trying to make everyone exactly alike. The only ones that I see trying to do that are the religious heterosexuals.
Live and let love.
Utahmn | 8:52 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008
@J
You have a point when you state �such behavior deviates from what is necessary for survival, but as psychology major you should be aware that Homosexuality has been around since the beginning and is less than 5 percent of the population. It has had no impact on �mankind�s� ability to procreate (over 6 billion and counting).
You have a point when you state �such behavior deviates from what is necessary for survival, but as psychology major you should be aware that Homosexuality has been around since the beginning and is less than 5 percent of the population. It has had no impact on �mankind�s� ability to procreate (over 6 billion and counting).
Hal | 10:12 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008
Anyone who thinks homosexuality is a threat to the survival of the species is an
idiot who hasn't had a good biology class in a long time. The survival of a
species is not simply the result of sexual reproduction (between males and
females). Non-reproducing members of a species are essential to its survival and
this fact is demonstrated in every species on the planet! Homosexual behavior is
also demonstrated in almost every species in the animal kingdom. It serves an
important ecological purpose.
Wake up and get a clue, people. There are NO biological arguments against homosexuality. The only arguments against homosexuality are religious and come from religious bigotry, fanaticism, and superstitious baloney!
Wake up and get a clue, people. There are NO biological arguments against homosexuality. The only arguments against homosexuality are religious and come from religious bigotry, fanaticism, and superstitious baloney!
Anonymous | 11:43 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008
Being left handed and red headed makes you special. Being a homosexual makes
you a pervert.
Kathleen | 11:45 a.m. Nov. 21, 2008
California has no limit on the number of times an initiative can be put on the
ballot. When Blacks received the Priesthood it wasn't mass social pressure
that turned the tide. It was a small branch of Black members who asked the
Brethren to come down and administer the Sacrament. They could not do it. The
Brethren were moved
and eventually prayed in the Temple
about it. Brother Hinkly talked about this shortly before he died.
The Genesis Group here will be the Grandmothers of Married Gays with adopted children who are being persecuted at school, even when their
parents are married. Yes, there are already 30-40,000 California children
in Gay families.
Entirely Gay people cannot reproduce,
but as the ancient Druids once said,
a fertile womb doth not a mither make.
Marriage may be sacred, as Mormons view it, but it does not always work
for children. Many people can't afford
lawyers.
and eventually prayed in the Temple
about it. Brother Hinkly talked about this shortly before he died.
The Genesis Group here will be the Grandmothers of Married Gays with adopted children who are being persecuted at school, even when their
parents are married. Yes, there are already 30-40,000 California children
in Gay families.
Entirely Gay people cannot reproduce,
but as the ancient Druids once said,
a fertile womb doth not a mither make.
Marriage may be sacred, as Mormons view it, but it does not always work
for children. Many people can't afford
lawyers.
utahmn | 3:01 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008
@Anonymous
Being "Anonymous" makes you ignorant
Being "Anonymous" makes you ignorant
Anonymous | 4:05 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008
"Being left handed and red headed makes you special. Being a homosexual
makes you a pervert."
Stating things like this make you seem very judgemental (and a little fanatic and not very Christlike.)
Stating things like this make you seem very judgemental (and a little fanatic and not very Christlike.)
re anonymous 11:43am | 4:19 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008
so - safe to assume you are not gay and do not want to be gay.....
so why do you care if others are? how does it hurt you? or you just a fanatical religious bigot?
no need to answer - it's clear already...
so why do you care if others are? how does it hurt you? or you just a fanatical religious bigot?
no need to answer - it's clear already...
to anonymouse 405 | 5:46 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008
So it's okay for you to be judgemental and not very Christlike to tell me
I'm a fanatic. Homosexuality IS a perversion, the majority of Californians
know that as well as millions of others across the USA. I know that. You
don't know me, so you're not in a position to judge me. I also know
that AIDS is a direct result of this perversion and sadly, there are innocent
victims who contract this deadly disease from immoral perverts. That's not
being judgmental or a fanatic. Just stating the facts. Countless children have
been emotionally scarred by pedophiles who are also perverts. Not being
judgmental or a fanatic. Just stating the facts. I know that not all gays are
pedophiles, nor are all pedophiles gay, but the facts are the facts and I dare
you to dispute them.
Steve | 6:04 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008
Hey!! I know!!! First we'll protest them, then we'll vandalize their
sacred place, and then we'll ask them why on earth they arent already
supporting us!!!
They don't want... | 8:59 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008
...the kind of help they need from the LDS church.
One Hand Clapping | 9:53 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008
I find the most honest, productive and righteous way to support my principles,
is to simply live them, not to work to take away, yours.
To:To members of the ch | 11:38 p.m. Nov. 21, 2008
I'm incredibly disappointed in members of the LDS church who use a public
forum like this to talk down to people with differing beliefs. I'm
incredibly disappointed with members of the LDS church who feel they have to
legislate their own beliefs and then demonize anyone who disagree with them. As
an active Mormon that's who disappoints me.
High School Student | 1:14 a.m. Nov. 22, 2008
One thought. If gay marriage were to be allowed in California and 2 gay men
were married there. Then they move and go to a state where gay marriage is not
recognized. Should they be recognized in that state? Because if I get my
license in Utah and then go to California, I am still able to drive around
because my licence is recognized. By the same token, should gays who were
married legally in one state, then move to another, be recognized as a couple??
This is more than just a State issue...This can and most likely will be a
national issue.
LDS4gaymarriage.org | 10:04 a.m. Nov. 22, 2008
High School Student wrote - "One thought. If gay marriage were to be
allowed in California and 2 gay men were married there. Then they move and go to
a state where gay marriage is not recognized. Should they be recognized in that
state?"
LDS - Good question. The answer is that the new state does NOT have to recognize the marriage. Under the Constitution's "Full Faith & Credit" law (Section 4, Paragraph 1), most documents in one state DO transfer over, but not all. Here's an example. In the state of New York, a person cannot get a drivers license until 18. In other states with that same requirement, they DO recognize the license of a 16 year old kid issued by another state. New York doesn't. If you are 17 with a VALID license from another state and you get pulled over in NY. You will get a "driving without a license" ticket. Medical, law and contractors licenses aren't always recognized elsewhere.
The bottom line is that those who claim this will lead to lawsuits are shedding more heat than light. Mass. has allowed gays to wed for years yet there is no tidal wave of lawsuits
LDS - Good question. The answer is that the new state does NOT have to recognize the marriage. Under the Constitution's "Full Faith & Credit" law (Section 4, Paragraph 1), most documents in one state DO transfer over, but not all. Here's an example. In the state of New York, a person cannot get a drivers license until 18. In other states with that same requirement, they DO recognize the license of a 16 year old kid issued by another state. New York doesn't. If you are 17 with a VALID license from another state and you get pulled over in NY. You will get a "driving without a license" ticket. Medical, law and contractors licenses aren't always recognized elsewhere.
The bottom line is that those who claim this will lead to lawsuits are shedding more heat than light. Mass. has allowed gays to wed for years yet there is no tidal wave of lawsuits
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