Deseret News | Gay-rights activists call for LDS help

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Gay-rights activists call for LDS help

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go | 1:36 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Not out, or not at all? | 1:38 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

This appears to be an interesting tactic, to claim support that isn't supported by facts that can be substantiated.

No fear, if lawmakers are supporting the measures, they will be known when they vote.

LdsNana-AskMormon | 1:40 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

"This is going to take time..." These people have no clue about eternal principles, do they?

Comments continue below

CTMac | 1:46 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

ï¿½Now is not the time to sit back and be quiet anymoreï¿½.

Here here! Those of us who support Prop 8 and supporting traditional marriage, letï¿½s also not sit back and be quiet! If those who are out to destroy traditional marriage are going to prepare for battle, the vast majority of Americans who support traditional marriage need to do the same.

We have been told that the day would come where society will call evil good and good evil. It is time for us to stand up and defend good and make it known that we will not stand for evil to be called good!

Danny C. | 1:56 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

"Now is not the time to sit back and be quiet anymore...Now is the time to speak up for what you believe in."

Would Mr./Ms. Redstone mind if I did the same, AGAINST gay marriage? Or would my house and place of worship be vandalized next, my name and contributions published on the internet so I can receive hate mail and boycotts?

Don't be surprised if the LDS Church doesn't voice its support on these bills. While it may not oppose them, helping them pass would look an awful lot like endorsing the homosexual union.

Rights are already there | 1:56 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

This publicity stunt is not about ending discrimination but forcing societal validation for their way of life. Gay couples already have the ability to grant hospitalization rights to their partner through existing laws.

Their strategy is to pass seemingly harmless laws that will give them legal precedent so that once enough laws are in place, they can file a lawsuit against the constitutionality of the gay-marriage ban by claiming that they already have all of the rights and benefits associated with marriage, and therefore, their relationship should be recognized the same as marriage by government and society.

Senator Scott McCoy who leads the gay rights legislative agenda in the State Legislature is no dummy. He knows exactly what he's doing.

Comfortable? | 2:00 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

What makes me uncofortable is the thought of Prop 8 passing...and having my church sued and adoptions messed up etc. because gay activists want to have their way. It happened in MA. Don't try to say it won't happen in CA if it would have failed.

I get sick of hearing how civil rights have been violated. What a croc. There are NO civil rights violations here because being gay is a CHOICE. If you choose to do something that is wrong, you shouldn't be awarded additional rights just because you don't want to change.

Enough ! | 2:00 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

When are the gay and lesbian community going to ever get it? Please quit trying to cram your views down our throats. I couldn't care less about political correctness! I'm tired of this! In my eyes, your "alternative lifestyle" is not acceptable and nothing you say or do will ever change my beliefs on the subject. And in so doing, you will never find inner peace! All the forced acceptance you could ever receive, won't clear your conscience.

Why? | 2:01 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Why do they want the support of the LDS church? I thought their whole basis of lashing out at the Church--the protests and all the "secret" persecution was to declare that the LDS church should stay out of societal issues because of "separation of church and state."

Dianeslc | 2:03 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

I wonder if we'll hear anything this time around. Will the plea be different when listening to parents talk of their unprotected children?
These are basic rights - basic Human rights. I can't imagine, as a parent, raising a child while the State you live in treats them as second class citizens.

Anonymous | 2:12 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

I don't trust these gay activist people. They are pretty slick at pulling the wool over our eyes. We agree to give them basic rights (which they already have) and next thing you know, they're trying to tell us that 2+2 =5, and if we tell them it doesn't add up...they protest and sue everybody.

Tom | 2:15 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Why do people think that Gay marriage will destroy the union of marriage. More than 50 persent of marriages fail and end in divorce.

It is time for everyone to get off of their moral high horse and look at the Consitution of the United States. The right to Life, Liberty and the Persuit of Happines, regardless of religion or belief.

It is your right to not agree with Gay marriage, but not your right to deny them their persuit of happines just because you dont agree with it. They are not harming any individuals by getting married.

Flavio Lima | 2:31 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

I think the LDS church or any church in general should stay OUT of this issue of marriage!! This is the law and a society issue. I'm sick of this religion debate over marriage!! Remember that it is in the name of religion that people today hate Americans and killed many in the past. Come on... Grow up people and start to take care of your own business. So many people are concern about what others are doing or how they live their life that they forget to do the most important principle in this life which is to live it!! You don't like gays getting marriage don't marry one. Stop forcing other to do as you want or believe is right!! If you are perfect please throw the first stone, but someone we all know taught me otherwise. Is that simple... and by the way I'm NOT gay!!

Clear Headed | 2:50 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Its about time we start calling what it realy is! Deviant Behavior. And not accept two wrongs as a justification for a right. We as a people must stand up for the future of our country and world. The idea that two be people can fornicate as long as it's consensual, is ludicress, and dangerous. Just look around and see if you can find any one famiy thats not impacted by imoral behavior.(and yes it is Deviant Behavior). The idea that civil rights are being denied is a false premise, and is a dangerous prescind, as is abortion on demand,and the impact on so many lives. Homosexuality is not an excuse for hate but, When ever a small segment of socity tries to change the perception of an obvious wrong thats the injustice! So to all you out there that are concerned for our country and people, beware of the messange! A behavior is not an instinct or is it genetic. No one is perfect but we can strive to be better. Be brave and don't give up.

Cams | 2:54 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

I don't think the Church will respond to this request. Wouldn't that be shooting themselves in the foot? Openly supporting rights is like supporting the gay lifestyle, and I don't think THAT's going to happen.
That being said, the whole anti Prop 8 protest thing is just ridiculous. I've done my research (believe me) and the only difference in rights in CA is that gay people might have to pay some money to set up a legal will for their partner, whereas in a marriage it's often automatic that the spouse will inherit. The Federal Government however is a different story. They won't allow gays to file taxes jointly therefore they miss out on tax benefits. But that's the Feds.
In the meantime, if you think that (I quote) "50 persent of marriages fail" anyways you must not think of marriage that seriously anyways, so what's the big deal. Can't you have a ceremony anyways? (without the legalities)
I believe in marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN, and that is MY right. I DON'T agree with people threatening and scaring others about their rights--that's called tyranny--the minority trying to rule over the majority. Think about THAT!

Schizophrenia | 2:54 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Hey mike thompson, instead of grandstanding have you tried calling the LDS Church on the phone? That would be the modern thing to do. Before you call, figure out if you want a seperation of church and state. One day you do and the next day you don't. It sounds like you movement is suffering from a little bit of political schizophrenia.

Anonymous | 2:57 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Interesting comments have been made, including, "Now is the time to speak up for what you believe in" and "This is the law and a society issue." So which is it? Should we speak up for what we believe in or stay out of a law and society issue? Aren't they one and the same? I believe that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God. In this democratic society, all have a right to vote as they believe and to speak up for what they believe.

Kit | 2:58 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Just because I don't want two men calling their relationship marriage doesn't mean I am throwing the first stone. This is getting rediculous! Just because I'm not willing to change my definition of something doen't make me hateful, judgemental or a bigot. I can definetely say alot more
"stones" have been thrown by the gay community.

Joe in California | 3:04 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Comfortable says: "There are NO civil rights violations here because being gay is a CHOICE." "Comfortable" might want to check his facts with medical and scientific organizations such as The American Psychiatric Association, The American Psychological Association or a host of others. Having spent almost 20 years in "corrective" analysis in the days where being gay was seen as an illness and finally having come to accept myself as God made me and getting on with life after so many years of struggle, I can tell you that nobody would make such a "choice." Being led to believe that one can make such a choice or pray away being gay has been the road to many suicides, depressed and dysfunctional people, to say nothing of being unable to find the happiness a relationship can bring you. I can speak for that also, having a wonderful partner now and being happier and more creative and alive than any time in my life. We both wonder why it took us so long in life to find each other. But the answer lies in the kind of disinformation "Comfortable" is pushing.

Hi FLavio | 3:05 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Trying to take religion out marriage is like trying to take elected officials out of government. Religious beliefs have always been a part of marriage. It was God who instituted marriage in the beginning.

Legal rights - Utah | 3:16 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

My partner and I have spent over 5K to set in place the legal paperwork to allow for hospital visitation, inheritance, etc. Does that seem fair to you?

Still, I cannot leave my pension to him or he to me. In case of death the next of kin can still come in and challenge the work we have done.

The watered down civil unions in SLC do not come anywhere near what the equal rights that SSM couples in California have. And remember, the civil rights only apply to SLC proper, not the county or the state as a whole

Equality for all!

Anonymous | 3:27 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Since when is being gay a choice? I don't know of anyone who would choose that lifestyle. If we had always protected traditional marriage, blacks wouldn't be able to marry whites. How does it impact any of you if your gay neighbors can get married or not? They are still going to live together, they are still going to raise children, and still going to pay taxes. What they do in their own homes is none of anyone else's business.

to Joe | 3:28 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

God made you male. He didn't make you homosexual. Could you please explain to my why homosexuals don't outgrow their dislike of the opposite sex that is normal in early childhood? Normal adults which comprise 98% of the population do grow up. They also outgrow throwing temper tantrums when they don't get their own way.

interesting-more lies | 3:30 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

He claims now is the time to speak up and yet refuses to name the lawmakers who have supposed come over to his side. Maybe because he lied and might get sued if he falsey named names.

jfs | 3:45 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

speak up and not be silent.

I support Prop 8

Thanks for the call not to be silent.

wey | 3:47 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

For Tom's understanding, the US Constitution does NOT guarantee the right to define marriage. Marriage existed long before this Constitution, or any government, came into existence.

The vast majority of people in all societies throughout history has embraced marriage as a covenant between one man and one woman. While we should not dislike anyone who approves or practices otherwise, we need to realize that the acceptance of non traditional marriage leads to malfunctioning society.

In addition, once such acceptance takes root, even among well meaning people of all parts of society, supporters of traditional marriage become the "enemy" and subject to the mob's wrath. All of us should have been shocked by the outpouring of hate and venom that came from the anti Prop. 8 camp recently which appears to be spreading. They are the ones most vocal about tolerance and practice it the least, if at all.

Constitutional laws that once protected families have been and will continue to come under attack so that it is possible that those who simply favor traditional marriage will be guilty of criminal behavior.

Nika | 4:09 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

yall just need to hush up.

i do however agree that he should not hav asked the LDS church for help wen before he wanted to sepperate religion from government.

also, this country was founded on religion, and the freedom of. wen in court u stil have to swear in on the bible. god is also stil in the pledge as far as i know.

get over yourselves. all of you. no, for most gay is NOT something they chose. its something they hav learned to live with, for example if you were born with an extra eye. its not something you chose for yourself, just something you have to live with. Enjoy who you are, dont be ashamed of it!

and why should you care? they are not forcing us to like them. simply to accept them. they simply want to have the same rights the rest of us do.

if you think im wrong or have any other arguments, please, email me. thers nothing i love more than a good debate with someone who knows how to argue.

Nikisha Luzzelliniya
Nikalu137@yahoo.com

Truth | 4:23 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

I'm appalled at the reaction of the gay community because they did not "get their way". How sad it is that they don't understand the plan of life. We did not make the rules about marriage. That was determined (for good reason) by a loving Heavenly Father, before we ever came to earth. This truth will never change, no matter how hard they try to make it otherwise.

JCH | 4:25 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

What about being gay is "evil"? What about being gay and married is "evil"? Why is that term used so freely here, by commenters on this website?

And, if you're not gay, how does gay marriage reach, let alone get crammed down, any of you're throats?

I'm genuinely curious about these questions. I've never read any reasoned explanation on this page for opposition to gay marriage which didn't depend, ultimately, on the presumption that God or the Bible had mandated opposition. But that's the same presumption that was once used to support opposition to miscegenation, isn't it? Especially in Utah, with our fondness for mixed marriages, we have moved past that antiquated argument. Why is it a logical or moral presumption now?

RE: LdsNana-AskMormon | 4:28 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Thank you. Exactly what I was going to post...until I read yours.

RE: Joe | 4:40 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Religious people don't check their facts with the American Psychiatric Association; they check them with the Bible. I believe that being gay comes with an innate tendency much of the time (just like people have innate tendencies towards addiction, self-destructive behavior, etc.)mixed with environmental factors. I am extremely sensitive to the issues that gays face. We all have demons to contend with and we all do it in our own way. But no matter what my inner thoughts are on the issues, I know that God did not intend for people to be gay, just as he didn't intend for them to be drug addicts, adulterers, gambling addicts, and alchoholics. We ALL have behaviors that we need to overcome. Mine are just different from yours.

Ted | 4:44 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Watch Hollywood increase the number of gays (especially gay marriages)in movies and television to make our children think this type of marriage is normal behavior in our society. We need to stand up and be counted to fight for our traditional marriages.
We need to organize a national traditional family marriage day and march in every city. Let's see the millions not a few thousands show up.

Professor | 4:50 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Every credible study in the world concludes that homosexual desires are found in less than 0.0002% of any species. Homosexuality is a function of nature meets nurture. It is a behavior that can be controlled. Why should we even consider courting this type of deviant behavior?

David | 4:53 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

If being homosexual is not a choice, why did once proclaimed lesbians Anne Heche and Julie Cypher now proclaim themselves heterosexual? BTW Anne Heche had a gay father that died of AIDS. Recent studies suggests experimenting with same sex relationships common for children with gay parents.

HOnesty | 4:56 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Civil protections for gays is not a moral issue and so it is very unlikey the Church will ever get involved in that.

And the church has already made their statement on those things.

Re: Legal Rights - Utah | 5:20 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

You got taken to the cleaners.

From my personal experience, it costs very little to name someone as a beneficiary of a life insurance policy or pension, or to put someone's name on your savings or checking accounts, or to put someone's name on a house title, or to name someone as a beneficiary in your will.

Straight, unmarried people who cohabitate do it all the time.

And setting up a trust/living will isn't that expensive either; a few months ago I received a quote of only $700 to set up a trust for my family.

Perhaps you need to hire an attorney who won't take advantage of your ignorance and paranoia.

Chris A | 5:22 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

The majority of Americans are moral people. We believe in marriage between a man and a woman. It is that union of their marriage to cerate and belong to a family unit. That is what a family is Dad, Mom and children. It is not 2 Dadï¿½s or 2 Momï¿½s. Marriage plain and simple it is ordained of God; it is a Man and a woman give the poiwer to creare life. Just because some people do not believe this to be true, doses not make it any less true. Just because the majority of Americans still believe in and want wholesome family values dose not mean we should have to give up our rights to satisfy those who willing give up their rights.

Clear Headed | 6:00 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Here We Go Again! gay Marriage is just one more attempt to cover the lefts real agenda. The complete and total redesign of of the american culture. Forget your religion, forget your heritage, forget all american tradidtions. In the last 25 years I can not think of any traditional american practice that has not been attacked or subverted.

Can't have it both ways... | 6:18 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

You either want the Church to stay out of your lives, or to be involved. Why is it so important that an organization that has no place for GLBT within its ranks lend their support to your cause? Lobby the government for Civil Unions, as is your right. But asking a religion to support you when it doesn't support your principles is strange!

re:TOM | 7:08 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

YOU JUST DON"T GET IT1!! Yes, they will be hurting us! They will be able in the schools to teach OUR children that their life style is normal. They will be able to have people arrested that speak out against their life style of teach others that it is wrong arrest... They will be able to force our Bishop's to marry them or be arrested. They will do a whole lot of things to religious people and if you don't think they won't then WAKE UP because it is already happening!

re: comfortable? | 7:41 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

As long as the church doesn't receive federal dollars, you can still discriminate in your adoptive services. And don't worry. Gay marriage is legal in Canada and nope, the church still hasn't been sued for not marrying them. Relax people!!!

Rich D | 8:01 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

Let's see. They call us bigots and tell us to stay out of this, then want us to support them? What part of NO do they not understand? The Church will always oppose gay marriages, otherwise we would be just be a bunch of hypocrits.

To members of the church | 8:13 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

I'm incredibly disappointed in many of members of the church that I see either quoted or commenting in these articles. While claiming to be faithful members, they express their dissapointement in the church for involving itself in this matter, and even for not acccepting that it's okay to be gay.

Understand that you are not criticizing the church. You are criticizing God. If you are disappointed with God's decisions you need to take it up with him on your own. The leaders of the church only act on his behalf.

Anonymous | 9:17 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

"And setting up a trust/living will isn't that expensive either; a few months ago I received a quote of only $700 to set up a trust for my family.
"-- Re: Legal Rights - Utah | 5:20 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

How much does a marriage license cost?

It takes care of each of the legal arrangements you describe for a small fraction of the cost.

Equal protection under the law: what part of it don't you understand?

CaliforniaMAN | 9:52 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

I am sure that the folks in California will be more able to cope with the voter's decision than the citizens of Sodom and Gomorrah were able to accept God's decision! Much of life is despair, much of living needs repair, be straight with God and he'll take care, you can reach Him anywhere.

Eddie | 11:25 p.m. Nov. 17, 2008

How is this an issue, it is not in the constitution, marriage is a religious practice and always will be, the church has every right to defend the practice. they brought religion into government when they tried to change the definition of marriage !!

I SUpport Prop 8 and so did the majority of californians not just LDS !!!

Elder Cynic | 12:14 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Who in their right mind could believe that the church has any intention of following through with its lip-service comments about upholding the rights of gay couples in matters of probate, hospital visitations, etc. Seems to me it's just like their promise to stop proxy baptisms of holocaust victims -- apparently they are still doing it (despite a vow to stop) and will likely keep doing it based on a statement made by an LDS official who said that proxy baptism is especially sacred to the organization (and implying that they would continue no matter what was said and promised).

Anonymous | 1:09 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Fact: No study ever conducted has concluded that ANYONE is born gay. One study, conducted in Holland, concluded that genetics may play a roll, but if so, it is only ONE of a number of factors, ONE OF WHICH IS CHOICE. The position of the American Psychiatric Association is based soley on a politically correct vote of it's members and NOT ON ANY SCIENTIC STUDY. Behavior is ALWAYS a choice.

FACT: Studies prove that if an identical twin is gay there is only a 20% chance that the other twin will also be gay. Since identical twins have identical genetic makeup....so much for the born-gay theory.

And by the way...The Church has NEVER promised to stop baptizing holocaust victims by proxy. The Church only promised to stop baptizing holocaust victims who are UNRELATED TO CHURCH MEMBERS. Church members who have ancestors or family members who are Jewish or holocaust victims have a perfect right to baptize them by proxy. This has never stopped. It will not and should not.

Cats | 1:29 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

Gays are not looking for tolerance. They are on a very insidious quest to force the world to accept and embrace their lifestyle as normal. They want the rest of us to tell them that their lifestyle is morally equal to the hereosexual lifestyle.

I have a great deal of sympathy for many gays as individuals, BUT NOT FOR THEIR AGENDA. What they are trying to do is unacceptable.

We can make a law that says a dog is a cat. But, no matter how many laws we make, a dog will always be a dog and cat will always be a cat. A gay "marriage" will NEVER be a marriage...worlds without end. Gay "partnerships" will never be morally equivelant to a REAL marriage.

Wrong will never be right no matter how much gays try to redefine it. Their argument is not with people of faith. Their argument is with God. And...God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Fair-Minded FOR Prop 8 | 1:44 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008

I fail to see why it's "HATE" that I support the traditional family. It's what's kept us as a society in business for all our known existence. I have gay friends and relatives, and I value and respect them--but I'm not about to turn my back on something that's worked that long, just because a crowd of intolerant, hate-mongering, totalitarian-minded screamers tell me I have to.

We've seen what REAL HATE is, loud and clear, the past couple of weeks--and it's straight from a bunch of the same people who pour so much time and passion into moaning and groaning about "hate."

Decent-minded GLBT people can't be buying into this hypocrisy (yes, it's that, too)--can you? I hope for the sakes of the otherwise humane GLBT population, more of you speak out against what the truly insane among you are doing.

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