Reader comments
Hundreds take to S.L. streets to protest, support Prop. 8 ban on gay marriage
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to Erika Skougard | 9:43 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Your statement is inaccurate. The has been vandalism of church buildings during
demonstrations/protests, ie, the LA Temple. These people are calling for a right
that isn't a right. Rights protect what we are not the lifestyles we engage
in. Homosexuality is a lifestyle and while I believe there are those that have
tendencies, I do not feel that anyone is made gay. Everyone has a choice. Once
we begin to adjust the mores of society to accommodate the preferences of
others, we lose our foundation and society becomes anarchy. Just as a parent
doesn't allow a child to touch a hot stove because of understanding and
love, we cannot allow gay marriage to be. It not because of hate but because of
understanding and love. Stop throwing the tantrum and see things as they really
are.
Disappointed | 9:56 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
I have many friends--some LDS, some Catholic, some Gay, some Straight...
I have no issue with people exercising their Constitutional right to protest peacefully...
Nor exercising their constitutional right to vote however they want...
I don't know about you but I have my own mind and can make my own decision...as I trust everyone is California does as well!!!
BUT I have a BIG PROBLEM with people resorting to violence, intimidation, and vandalism...(Dr. King would also be discusted, guaranteed).
I have no issue with people exercising their Constitutional right to protest peacefully...
Nor exercising their constitutional right to vote however they want...
I don't know about you but I have my own mind and can make my own decision...as I trust everyone is California does as well!!!
BUT I have a BIG PROBLEM with people resorting to violence, intimidation, and vandalism...(Dr. King would also be discusted, guaranteed).
Comments continue below
Stand Up & Be Counted | 10:11 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
RE Richard G: Hmmm, blacks and women were loud and boisterous when it came to
bigotry and inequality. Remember, to change the status quo, you must stand up
and be heard. As a dedicated, gay father to a LDS daughter, I understand all
about the definition of "morality." That's why I continue to
stand up as an example to her. When a church, guided by what they deem as
"truth," attempts to mandate that perspective far and wide, then
we've arrived at an immoral and dangerous time in history. That's not
the kind of governing or country I believe in.
Bob2 | 10:12 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
I live in So Cal, but I want to say thank you to every protester and to tell you
that I've never been prouder to be from Salt Lake. Lines have been drawn on
this issue and Salt Lake is ground zero. When gay marriage is as common as
having a black president, I will be proud to say that the genesis was in my home
town.
John | 10:18 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
This is a lot of talk over an absurd issue. I have heard a lot of people
against prop 8 who are well versed and argue eloquently about how they are being
discriminated against. It is almost unfortunate that others argue against them,
thereby dignifying what they have to say. What it all boils down to is that
gays and lesbians are defending behavior that is completely disgusting and
reprehensible on so many levels.
Seriously | 10:19 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Let it go. This has nothing to do with us in Utah. It was in CALIFORNIA! Did you
get to vote on Proposition 8? I didn't. I'm sick of hearing about it.
Stop reporting on it and the protestors will lose their interest because they
won't be getting attention anymore. There are better ways to get what you
want, protesting does absolutely NOTHING.
Rita | 10:22 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
The big crowds at the protest's prove nothing.
Many of the people are paid, to make it appear that more people are against it.
Check it out.
Google: Paid protesters.
Many of the people are paid, to make it appear that more people are against it.
Check it out.
Google: Paid protesters.
?????????? | 10:25 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Why do my comments always get cut? Sodomy is the legal term and central to this
topic.
What's not reported | 10:27 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
I know a large number of gay men and women did not attend the rallies. Why?
Because they just don't care about the issue. They already had other plans
to work, to volunteer at charitable organizations, and to be a part of their
larger community. These men and women know how to not isolate themselves and be
neighborly.
Also, attendance at many LDS churches increased last week. I noticed that at my ward, and I heard the same report from many friends. That could really mean that a sleeping giant has awakened, and it decided to go back to church.
Also, attendance at many LDS churches increased last week. I noticed that at my ward, and I heard the same report from many friends. That could really mean that a sleeping giant has awakened, and it decided to go back to church.
Equal rights | 10:35 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
What the LDS Church does with its doctrine is fine --- confined to their homes,
churches, temples.
When they support their members to vote on how gays live their lives is WRONG. Yes, they interfere --- because the legislation directly impacts how they lives their lives.
And call marriage holy and sactimonious all you want. By your own logic, what do you call the hundreds of thousands that get married civilly every year at city halls?
We will not take anything less than marriage.
Rosa Parks called... and she, like us, refuse to sit on the back of the bus anymore by what you will give us --- domestic partnerships and civil unions. Separate but equal is inherently unequal.
As far as vandalism on places of worship --- it is wrong, and most protests have been peaceful.
Please understand that the LGBT community has lived with hate crimes, slurs, homophobia, discrimination for years --- some way before they came out.
Any kind of hate is wrong.
But we will win this, even if you do not like it.
When they support their members to vote on how gays live their lives is WRONG. Yes, they interfere --- because the legislation directly impacts how they lives their lives.
And call marriage holy and sactimonious all you want. By your own logic, what do you call the hundreds of thousands that get married civilly every year at city halls?
We will not take anything less than marriage.
Rosa Parks called... and she, like us, refuse to sit on the back of the bus anymore by what you will give us --- domestic partnerships and civil unions. Separate but equal is inherently unequal.
As far as vandalism on places of worship --- it is wrong, and most protests have been peaceful.
Please understand that the LGBT community has lived with hate crimes, slurs, homophobia, discrimination for years --- some way before they came out.
Any kind of hate is wrong.
But we will win this, even if you do not like it.
To Things that make you go hmmmm | 10:37 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Haven't your church leaders taught you to be kinder and less judgmental
towards your brothers and sisters? I know I am trying to follow that admonition.
nottyou | 10:38 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
I'm glad I live in Riverton.
It's not a choice | 10:43 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Do you think if I had a choice I would have chosen:
* harrassment
* alientation from family, friends, co-workers, school
* ridicule
* less benefits at work
* depression
many, like me, have "tried" to go "straight," to no avail --- just breaking other people's hearts. It's not fair to the hetero community, and it's not fair to us.
* harrassment
* alientation from family, friends, co-workers, school
* ridicule
* less benefits at work
* depression
many, like me, have "tried" to go "straight," to no avail --- just breaking other people's hearts. It's not fair to the hetero community, and it's not fair to us.
What is wrong with marching? | 10:47 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
What exactly is wrong with marching? --- as long as it is peaceful?
Many would would to pour their millions, keep their voice secret, and then run away and hide, wanting to maintain their views and bigotry, yes, bigotry, secret and undisclosed.
We do it out in the open --- we have our voices heard. It is also part of the democratic process.
Many would would to pour their millions, keep their voice secret, and then run away and hide, wanting to maintain their views and bigotry, yes, bigotry, secret and undisclosed.
We do it out in the open --- we have our voices heard. It is also part of the democratic process.
This is our time | 10:50 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
This is a right whose time has come.
We have waited too long for this right --- keeping what the majority would give us --- but no more.
We will petition the courts --- I know some of you don't like that, but sorry to break the news, courts are also part of the democratic process, else, why have them?
We will march.
We will speak with our neighbors, families, friends, co-workers --- not to spread "a lifestyle" - as some may call it, but to petition to have equal rights and protection under the law.
I can't believe that in 2008, we are having to request equal rights.
We have waited too long for this right --- keeping what the majority would give us --- but no more.
We will petition the courts --- I know some of you don't like that, but sorry to break the news, courts are also part of the democratic process, else, why have them?
We will march.
We will speak with our neighbors, families, friends, co-workers --- not to spread "a lifestyle" - as some may call it, but to petition to have equal rights and protection under the law.
I can't believe that in 2008, we are having to request equal rights.
Voice of Reason | 10:52 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Marriage has always been, is now, and always will be, a heterosexual institution
by its very nature. It has never been a government endorsement of sexual
pleasure or love - it has always been, is now and always will be a government
endorsement of stable heterosexual relationships as the very core of
society's continued existence.
Gay activists' stunningly hateful, violent, and fundamentally evil response to their fair-and-square democratic loss will reap a whirlwind of traditional conservative reaction the likes of which they have never seen. They are truly awakening the sleeping giant.
The line is drawn here. No further. This is a fight for our nation's very survival.
Gay activists' stunningly hateful, violent, and fundamentally evil response to their fair-and-square democratic loss will reap a whirlwind of traditional conservative reaction the likes of which they have never seen. They are truly awakening the sleeping giant.
The line is drawn here. No further. This is a fight for our nation's very survival.
Bill | 10:56 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
I would like to take a minute to thank the LDS Church. If they hadn't
entered the Prop 8 fight and had their members working so feverishly to repeal
it, yes, gay marriage would be legal in California now, but this great
cross-country awakening of gay people and the straight people who support them
would not have occurred.
I was at the rally yesterday to support my gay sister and it was a very moving experience. (The media may have focused almost entirely on the anti-gay protesters, but that was a very small part of a very large event and most people there just ignored them.)
And now other people, people who maybe never really thought about it before, and people who truly do believe in the separation of church and state, will begin to see what all this boils down to is that millions of their fellow citizens, fellow citizens who work and pay their taxes just like they do, still do not have the same rights as the majority does.
And they will recognize that in the United States of America, where liberty and justice are supposed to be for ALL, that this is just not right.
I was at the rally yesterday to support my gay sister and it was a very moving experience. (The media may have focused almost entirely on the anti-gay protesters, but that was a very small part of a very large event and most people there just ignored them.)
And now other people, people who maybe never really thought about it before, and people who truly do believe in the separation of church and state, will begin to see what all this boils down to is that millions of their fellow citizens, fellow citizens who work and pay their taxes just like they do, still do not have the same rights as the majority does.
And they will recognize that in the United States of America, where liberty and justice are supposed to be for ALL, that this is just not right.
Why, and when? | 11:04 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Why should heterosexuals have the right to tell gay people what they CAN and
CANNOT do?
When will gay people have the chance or opportunity to vote on the status, rights and privileges of OTHER PEOPLE'S marriages?
When will gay people have the chance or opportunity to vote on the status, rights and privileges of OTHER PEOPLE'S marriages?
Standingup | 11:12 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Mr. Gardner,
Please explain to me how this is about children's rights? A child deserves to be raised in a stable environment-- not in a two-year contract which is what "traditional" marriage has devolved to. Over half of the nations marriages end in divorce. Why would you want to deny a group of people that just want that 50/50 chance so that they can have thier OWN families? Contrary to some deranged comments, LGBT families are not out to get your children or destroy your marriage. They want to protect thier children, and protect thier families. No more children should suffer the fate of Lawrence King.
Think about it, when you tell LGBT people they cannot marry--you are possibly denying your own flesh and blood the right to pursue their happiness. If two people love each other, you don't have to support it, or even condone it...but to stand in the way of it is inhuman.
Please explain to me how this is about children's rights? A child deserves to be raised in a stable environment-- not in a two-year contract which is what "traditional" marriage has devolved to. Over half of the nations marriages end in divorce. Why would you want to deny a group of people that just want that 50/50 chance so that they can have thier OWN families? Contrary to some deranged comments, LGBT families are not out to get your children or destroy your marriage. They want to protect thier children, and protect thier families. No more children should suffer the fate of Lawrence King.
Think about it, when you tell LGBT people they cannot marry--you are possibly denying your own flesh and blood the right to pursue their happiness. If two people love each other, you don't have to support it, or even condone it...but to stand in the way of it is inhuman.
Thanks Patrick | 11:16 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
We very much appreciate your reasoned and passionate plea for equality and
understanding. Unfortunately not all those from the LGBT share your
level-headedness. Even though they carry signs that decry our supposed hatred
and bigotry against them-it is they who hate and destroy in the name of
tolerance.
It is important for you and those that stand with you to understand that there is not one iota of hatred or bigotry emanating out of the LDS church or even from the overwhelming majority of its members.
It is all a matter of pure semantics, as you already have civil unions recognized nationwide with all the attendant rights and privileges that regular hetero marriages have as well.
But, know you are not satisfied wanting the rest of the world to totally accept you and your lifestyle by changing the very definition of marriage that has existed from the beginning of time.
Just as we can not call not a horse a cow, neither can we call a civil union between two men or two women a marriage. You can live however you want and we will grant you all the same rights you crave-but we will not call it a marriage.
It is important for you and those that stand with you to understand that there is not one iota of hatred or bigotry emanating out of the LDS church or even from the overwhelming majority of its members.
It is all a matter of pure semantics, as you already have civil unions recognized nationwide with all the attendant rights and privileges that regular hetero marriages have as well.
But, know you are not satisfied wanting the rest of the world to totally accept you and your lifestyle by changing the very definition of marriage that has existed from the beginning of time.
Just as we can not call not a horse a cow, neither can we call a civil union between two men or two women a marriage. You can live however you want and we will grant you all the same rights you crave-but we will not call it a marriage.
Sean J. | 11:19 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
I find the backlash against the LDS church interesting. As has been mentioned,
it seems the LDS church is being singled out because of its stand on preserving
marriage. I think there is more to that than its support of Preposition 8. The
gay and lesbian community is waging aware not on civil rights, but on the
doctrine of ordained marriage. I feel the recent protests and push for
"equal rights" is not so much a push for rights as it is a push for a
change in Mormon values. It seems like in the gay and lesbian community, there
is more of a desire for justification of their behavior rather than equal
rights. The Church will not change its stand, and I suppose many in the gay and
lesbian community will not as well. We might try the novel concept of agreeing
to disagree and live civilly towards one another
Askyourselfwhy | 11:21 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
There have been comments that gay's that have left heterosexual marriages
are destroying marriage. Has anyone ever stopped to think that if they could
have married the person they wanted to in the first place...those sham marriages
would have never happened?
How many suicides could be prevented if families didn't disown thier own children for being gay?
How many families would be saved from tragedy if they could only have the same rights as thier neighbor.
There is not a person in the world that does not know a gay person. They may not know who it is...but they know them. Oftentimes, they are your sister, your brother, your neighbor, your best friend. But they are afraid to tell you because they are afraid that in being true to themselves, they'll lose you. You don't have to agree with gays, you don't have to like them...but try to imagine how you would feel if you lost a loved one because someone couldn't look beyond hate. How would you feel if someone told you that a farm animal being raised for slaughter had more value than your family?
How many suicides could be prevented if families didn't disown thier own children for being gay?
How many families would be saved from tragedy if they could only have the same rights as thier neighbor.
There is not a person in the world that does not know a gay person. They may not know who it is...but they know them. Oftentimes, they are your sister, your brother, your neighbor, your best friend. But they are afraid to tell you because they are afraid that in being true to themselves, they'll lose you. You don't have to agree with gays, you don't have to like them...but try to imagine how you would feel if you lost a loved one because someone couldn't look beyond hate. How would you feel if someone told you that a farm animal being raised for slaughter had more value than your family?
Bill | 11:23 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
"Once same-sex marriage is 'legal', will the government then
attempt to REQUIRE churches to marry same-sex couples, regardless of that
church's moral opposition?"
I've heard that people have been told that this will be the case but IT IS NOT AND NEVER will be.
Think about it, no church is ever forced to marry people it doesn't want to marry. A friend of mine had a hard time getting married in the Catholic Church, even though he IS Catholic and so was his then fiance, (now his wife), because the maid of honor was a Wiccan and the priest at his parish refused to marry them because he objected to her religion.
Churches have always been able to refuse to marry whoever they don't want to marry, even if it is one of their own members to another. This will not change.
I've heard that people have been told that this will be the case but IT IS NOT AND NEVER will be.
Think about it, no church is ever forced to marry people it doesn't want to marry. A friend of mine had a hard time getting married in the Catholic Church, even though he IS Catholic and so was his then fiance, (now his wife), because the maid of honor was a Wiccan and the priest at his parish refused to marry them because he objected to her religion.
Churches have always been able to refuse to marry whoever they don't want to marry, even if it is one of their own members to another. This will not change.
BobP | 11:24 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
I am active LDS and totally opposed to gay marriage. That said the appears to
be a great deal of confusion over the difference between rights and
priviledges.
In the American system "anything not specifically forbidden is allowed."
Gay marriage is specifically forbidden.
In the American system "anything not specifically forbidden is allowed."
Gay marriage is specifically forbidden.
Dictionary Issue | 11:28 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
This seems to be more of an issure for a dictionary.
Marriage means the union between a man and a woman.
Gay people are not happy with that. They want the word changed.
Heterosexual means the sexual attraction between a man and a woman. Perhaps the gay community wants that word redefined also. After all isn't the fact that the word heterosexual is defined as it is take away gay's rights to be called heterosexuals.
It seems to me Californians voted on keeping the meaning of the word marriage as it is traditionally.
Should there be a different word for a man and a women who live together as a couple versus a man and a man living together as a couple? Moral issue? Semantics issue? Whatever it is the California population has spoken on it's position.
Marriage means the union between a man and a woman.
Gay people are not happy with that. They want the word changed.
Heterosexual means the sexual attraction between a man and a woman. Perhaps the gay community wants that word redefined also. After all isn't the fact that the word heterosexual is defined as it is take away gay's rights to be called heterosexuals.
It seems to me Californians voted on keeping the meaning of the word marriage as it is traditionally.
Should there be a different word for a man and a women who live together as a couple versus a man and a man living together as a couple? Moral issue? Semantics issue? Whatever it is the California population has spoken on it's position.
re SY&BC | 11:31 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Come on sir.
The truth stands alone as the truth. And it not just the LDS church or the other faiths that joined with it in support of Prop 8, but God himself who mandated the definition of marriage.
As a gay man, you probably have little or no use for any type of deity in your life, but that does not alter the fact that there is a loving God of us all that cares about you and your children.
Flame away friend, but all the posturing in the world will change this basic fact of nature.
Although you find it hard to stomach a country ruled by majority law, perhaps you might enjoy some totalitarian country that not only targets gays, but murders them on a regular basis. I have lived in such a nation and tell you that such places do exist. Not sure that you would like it there.
You (and your partner) have every right that my wife and I do. So, please quit whining about that which you can not have.
Truth is truth and it is not on your side.
The truth stands alone as the truth. And it not just the LDS church or the other faiths that joined with it in support of Prop 8, but God himself who mandated the definition of marriage.
As a gay man, you probably have little or no use for any type of deity in your life, but that does not alter the fact that there is a loving God of us all that cares about you and your children.
Flame away friend, but all the posturing in the world will change this basic fact of nature.
Although you find it hard to stomach a country ruled by majority law, perhaps you might enjoy some totalitarian country that not only targets gays, but murders them on a regular basis. I have lived in such a nation and tell you that such places do exist. Not sure that you would like it there.
You (and your partner) have every right that my wife and I do. So, please quit whining about that which you can not have.
Truth is truth and it is not on your side.
Canadiandy | 11:32 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Actually John, Gay Marriage does threaten all marriages. Like someone printing
exact replicas of our Canadian Dollar and then flooding them into the market, in
which case my own bills are now devalued.
Same-sex marriage here in Canada has clearly made marriage less valued socially. It has "Hallmarkized" (anyone can pick them up, for little investment, and they hold much less value than a traditional card) marriage here and as a result fewer people are getting married. The problem is that people are still having children at the same rate, but now these children have mothers with partners instead of mothers and fathers.
The right of a child to have a mother and a father alone outweighs all of your arguments in favor of SSM.
Same-sex marriage here in Canada has clearly made marriage less valued socially. It has "Hallmarkized" (anyone can pick them up, for little investment, and they hold much less value than a traditional card) marriage here and as a result fewer people are getting married. The problem is that people are still having children at the same rate, but now these children have mothers with partners instead of mothers and fathers.
The right of a child to have a mother and a father alone outweighs all of your arguments in favor of SSM.
Rich | 11:36 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
My comments seam to be getting cut too.
The gays have a basic right that they should use. They have the right to leave the country.
The gays have a basic right that they should use. They have the right to leave the country.
Not 51/49 | 11:39 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Actually Carlos it was not 51/49 (never let a good rant get in the way of the
truth). The results were 52.5% to 47.5%. That is a spread of 5%. And if just 5%
of Californians took to the streets the way these 'fringers' have it
would shut down the entire state.
Up Democracy, down Mob Rule! America is not spelled A-N-A-R-C-H-Y.
Up Democracy, down Mob Rule! America is not spelled A-N-A-R-C-H-Y.
Elton John is For Prop 8 | 11:47 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Take some adivce from Elton John.....
"Sir Elton John has come forward saying he�s for Proposition 8, which bans gay marriages. He believes gay couples should stick to civil unions rather than getting married.
Elton and his longtime partner David Furnish celebrated a civil union ceremony back in 2005. At the Elton John AIDS Foundation in NYC on Monday night, he said, �We�re not married. Let�s get that right. We have a civil partnership. I don�t want to be married. I�m very happy with a civil partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should have a civil partnership. The word marriage, I think, puts a lot of people off. You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships.� "
Article from Hollyscoop
"Sir Elton John has come forward saying he�s for Proposition 8, which bans gay marriages. He believes gay couples should stick to civil unions rather than getting married.
Elton and his longtime partner David Furnish celebrated a civil union ceremony back in 2005. At the Elton John AIDS Foundation in NYC on Monday night, he said, �We�re not married. Let�s get that right. We have a civil partnership. I don�t want to be married. I�m very happy with a civil partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should have a civil partnership. The word marriage, I think, puts a lot of people off. You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships.� "
Article from Hollyscoop
Cats | 11:57 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Isaiah 5:20...Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil; that put darkness
for light and light for darkness.
How tragic that those who try to follow Christ and live the commandments of God are called bigoted and uneducated.
How tragic that those who oppose the sanctity of marriage and family, as established by God for thousands of years, are considered enlightened.
We must all stand together with faith. Those that be with us are greater than those that be against us. We will always stand for what is right no matter how much persection is heaped upon us. It is true.....they have awakened a sleeping giant.
How tragic that those who try to follow Christ and live the commandments of God are called bigoted and uneducated.
How tragic that those who oppose the sanctity of marriage and family, as established by God for thousands of years, are considered enlightened.
We must all stand together with faith. Those that be with us are greater than those that be against us. We will always stand for what is right no matter how much persection is heaped upon us. It is true.....they have awakened a sleeping giant.
Anonymous | 11:58 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
It's a civil rights issue. The right to marry was already defined as a
fundamental civil right. I think that the LDS shouldn't have acted as a
political action committee to take away minority groups civil rights. Everyone
has the right to believe their religion but the gay people also have the right
to believe that they were born that way. So, we are getting into differing
belief systems neither of which should cancel out any civil rights from the
other side. Any reasonable person should know that in a free society no one
should lose civil rights for their beliefs. Not the Mormons and not the gays
although, I do see a compelling reason why the government should start looking
at the LDS tax exempt status's if it is really acting as a political
organization.
Agree with Robert Oh | 11:59 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Yes, thank you to all 52% who voted for Prop. 8 and for the fundamentals in Utah
whos supported it.
And get over yourselves, you want to avoid the punches when you start messing with our lives --- your religion might be sacred, but guess what? so are own lives. So give a punch, take a punch back. Take that.
You just made a closet gay come out and start moving things.
If I didn't see it before, I see it now.
AND...
Is this the way half of Utah treats their gays on a regular basis? Their friends, sons, daughters, co-workers, I pity you people.
And not only are not happy keeping their gays in misery in Utah. They want to spread the misery to two states over. Just pathetic.
And get over yourselves, you want to avoid the punches when you start messing with our lives --- your religion might be sacred, but guess what? so are own lives. So give a punch, take a punch back. Take that.
You just made a closet gay come out and start moving things.
If I didn't see it before, I see it now.
AND...
Is this the way half of Utah treats their gays on a regular basis? Their friends, sons, daughters, co-workers, I pity you people.
And not only are not happy keeping their gays in misery in Utah. They want to spread the misery to two states over. Just pathetic.
Adam & Eve | 12:03 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Adam and Eve are turning over in their graves....
To: Equal Rights | 12:10 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
To: Equal Rights - "Please understand that the LGBT community has lived
with hate crimes, slurs, .....discrimination for years"
Welcome to the club.
Welcome to the club.
The Wakeup Call to Reason | 12:11 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Sorry to pop your bubble...but marriage has NOT always been a purely
heterosexual institution... read something other than a eurocentric text
book.
As for government endorsement, go to Canada, Spain, Massachusetts... they recognize stable relationships between two consenting adults as a human right.
As for the activists... you're taking less than 1% of the people rallying around the country and stereotyping the lot of them. That's sad. What if the gay population were to blame you personally for the murder of Matthew Shepard?
Only in America would a person have to travel to Canada to be treated like an American.
As for government endorsement, go to Canada, Spain, Massachusetts... they recognize stable relationships between two consenting adults as a human right.
As for the activists... you're taking less than 1% of the people rallying around the country and stereotyping the lot of them. That's sad. What if the gay population were to blame you personally for the murder of Matthew Shepard?
Only in America would a person have to travel to Canada to be treated like an American.
Confused? Please Help? | 12:15 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
I am confused, Approximately 5.4 million Californians voted on Prop 8. There are
approx. 700,000 Mormons in California, half of which are under 18 and cannot
vote. So lets just round up a bit and say 400,000 Californians voted yes on
prop.8. Basically 5 million non Mormons voted yes on 8, so how is this the
Church's fault? It is okay to show support for something, all the Church
did is show support, period. You no on 8 people rallied to fight it too, and
spent more than yes on 8 did. Had this gone the other way would you see Mormons
taking to the streets and be saying hateful like you supporters? Doubt it.
Defeat is always painful, you no on 8 supporter lost, fair and square. And the
Mormon church is only one brick in that wall of 5 million voters. Please accept
that. The state chose, not the Church.
Adam and Eve, Not Adam and Steve | 12:16 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Enough said!!
Adam and Eve | 12:38 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
if you believe in them, are the father and mother of all living people. That
would include gay and lesbian progeny.
Eyes Rolling Noisily | 12:40 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Heterosexuals are being allowed to destroy same-sex marriage, not vice versa.
They are the tyrants. Stop playing the victim.
To confused | 12:45 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Please get educated. Obviously you haven't read how the LDS Church
encouraged Church members to donate money, time, and energy into Passing Prop. 8
--- based on lies.
Hope you're not confused now. Glad I could help.
Hope you're not confused now. Glad I could help.
Liberals | 12:56 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
It's kind of funny how liberals LOVE the constitutional right of free
speech and opinions. Except when it works against one of their causes. Back
atcha libbies!
Patrick | 1:10 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Thank you for your well-worded response.
One thing I disagree with is when you say there "is not one iota of hatred or bigotry emanating out of the LDS church". Fact is, there is bigotry on both sides of the issue. Ultimately, we are both doing what we believe is best for our families--and have a hard time understanding the other side.
As for semantics...I wouldn't mind having a civil union, if they were indeed recognized nationwide and by the federal government, which they are not. Also, civil unions do not currently provide all the rights and privileges that marriage current grants.
The definition of marriage has changed over time and varies throughout cultures...it is no longer about ownership, thank everything holy.
I don't mind if you choose not to call our lifelong bonds marriage. However I will continue to fight for and defend my right to the same rights and privileges afforded to my married heterosexual counterparts.
The LDS church has said it's Pro-Family, not Anti-gay. We're not Anti-LDS, we're Pro-Family. Let's work together instead of against another. The church should help us repeal amendment 3 and pass LGBT friendly legislation that will protect all our families.
One thing I disagree with is when you say there "is not one iota of hatred or bigotry emanating out of the LDS church". Fact is, there is bigotry on both sides of the issue. Ultimately, we are both doing what we believe is best for our families--and have a hard time understanding the other side.
As for semantics...I wouldn't mind having a civil union, if they were indeed recognized nationwide and by the federal government, which they are not. Also, civil unions do not currently provide all the rights and privileges that marriage current grants.
The definition of marriage has changed over time and varies throughout cultures...it is no longer about ownership, thank everything holy.
I don't mind if you choose not to call our lifelong bonds marriage. However I will continue to fight for and defend my right to the same rights and privileges afforded to my married heterosexual counterparts.
The LDS church has said it's Pro-Family, not Anti-gay. We're not Anti-LDS, we're Pro-Family. Let's work together instead of against another. The church should help us repeal amendment 3 and pass LGBT friendly legislation that will protect all our families.
Bill | 1:21 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Btw, religious people do not have to sole right to the word
"marriage/married/marry". My wife and I were raised in different
religions, but practice neither. We chose not to be married in a church and to
have a civil ceremony instead, but we were still issued a "marriage
certificate". And no one has ever referred to us as "civil
unioned" rather than "married".
If ya'll still insist that you have the sole right to this word because you believe it should apply to only men and women, go ahead, try and trademark it for your sole use at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and see what happens.
If ya'll still insist that you have the sole right to this word because you believe it should apply to only men and women, go ahead, try and trademark it for your sole use at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and see what happens.
Get Over It | 1:43 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
To Prop 8 opponents - get over it, you lost. Its more than a little ironic that
the very people who preach tolerance for the gay lifestyle seem utterly
incapable of practicing that tolerance. Why don't you lead by example and
show the same tolerance for opposing viewpoints that you expect the rest of us
to exhibit...
Sleeping Giant | 1:47 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Yes, a sleeping giant has been awakened - those who oppose gay marriage. If
those in the gay community advancing their agenda hadn't done so in such a
confrontational manner, they might be further down the road than they are now.
As it is, these actions by the gay community will serve only to strengthen and
exapnd opposition to their agenda.
"The voice of the people" | 1:51 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
The voice of the people have made abortion legal years ago.
So LDS "get over it" The people have spoken.
Oopps... We meant only when the people we agree with have spoken. Keep protesting those abortion clinics because they disagree with your religous beliefs.
OH that is freedom of speech to harass people going inside beacuse they have different beliefs.
So LDS "get over it" The people have spoken.
Oopps... We meant only when the people we agree with have spoken. Keep protesting those abortion clinics because they disagree with your religous beliefs.
OH that is freedom of speech to harass people going inside beacuse they have different beliefs.
Another Giant | 1:56 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
The comment has been made that a gay rights 'giant' has been awakened
by the passage of Prop. 8 - for those who take this silver lining view, you
should know that another giant has awakened, i.e., the majority who oppose gay
marriage. The hatred and intolerance exhibited by the anti Prop. 8 protestors
will, and have, served to strengthen and expand opposition to the gay agenda.
Keep up the protests...
re: "Voice of the people" NOT!! | 2:03 p.m. Nov. 16, 2008
Are you really that uneducated or simply disengeneous? When is the last time
you saw any LDS at abortion clinic protests? Let me answer for you never. Or
only very, very rarely.
You are confusing us with someone else. Let's stay on point please.
It is not the LDS church (or any others) out there protesting and spewing hatred and venom-the very thing that you accuse us of.
Go ahead and call evil good all you want-it doesn't change anything. Good is good and evil is evil and nothing will change no matter how often you repeat it to yourself.
You are confusing us with someone else. Let's stay on point please.
It is not the LDS church (or any others) out there protesting and spewing hatred and venom-the very thing that you accuse us of.
Go ahead and call evil good all you want-it doesn't change anything. Good is good and evil is evil and nothing will change no matter how often you repeat it to yourself.
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"Gay marriage does nothing to threaten heterosexual marriage."
Oh really? This very article being commented on mentioned two men who were once married to LDS women but are now "married" to each other. It certainly looks like gay "marriage" broke up their marriages. I have seen countless similar examples.