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Hundreds take to S.L. streets to protest, support Prop. 8 ban on gay marriage
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Dutch | 5:08 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
See the lilies of the field see how they spin see how they toil !!
Anonymous | 5:12 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Democracy 4:33. I don't know what Rodrigues is referring to, but CA
electorate passed a bill that defined marriage as between a man and a woman.
Then their Supreme Court overturned it. Prop 8 is the second time the people of
CA have voted to define marriage as between a man and a woman. Why do YOU get
define what marriage is but not me? Separation of Church and State also means
keeping your STATE out of my Church. You say you're not going to force me
to allow gay marriages in our buildings and temples, but your vitriol,
vandalism, and violence make your middle-of-the-road promises seem very, very
empty.
your momma!!! | 5:12 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
6,156,848 people voted yes on P8, and only 749,490 people in California are LDS.
what does that mean??? Over 5 million people dont support gays marrying, and nor
do I. why single out a church that has only has a few people in Cali? Are you
looking for someone to blame for your defeat?
Comments continue below
Joe | 5:13 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
The GLBT loves to distort the issue, huh. Its not taking away any rights,
because they have all of the same rights in a civil union. Its looking for
validation of a behavior choice. Readers here, did you know that the scientific
community has never EVER found any evidence that you are BORN gay? They have
tried and tried, but there is no Gay gene, no gay instinct, nothing but high
hormone levels and screwed up homes/relationship backlash. Being gay is not
forced on a person in any way, no matter how loud the GLBT shouts that it is. I
will always vote against laws that encourage people to be gay because I
don't want to support the lies that state that being gay is anything more
than a physical/mental problem. The GLBT community needs therapy, not
encouragement!
Vigilant | 5:13 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
The anti-Prop 8 protesters are proving that the left's charade of demanding
"tolerence and acceptance and diversity" is a bunch of lies. They
want tolerence for THEIR views, but not for others, even the majority.
The gay "rights" agenda is unacceptable. Gay "marriage" is a sham, as well as unacceptable.
Go home and leave us alone. You had a chance at the ballot box and lost. The will of the people has clearly spoken and overturned the despicable acts of activist California judges.
If Prop 8 comes up again, we will fight twice as hard to defend traditional marriage.
The gay "rights" agenda is unacceptable. Gay "marriage" is a sham, as well as unacceptable.
Go home and leave us alone. You had a chance at the ballot box and lost. The will of the people has clearly spoken and overturned the despicable acts of activist California judges.
If Prop 8 comes up again, we will fight twice as hard to defend traditional marriage.
The NIT - Culture Division | 5:14 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
I am so tired of the half-truths and complete lies offered by the
"homosexual community" regarding this issue.
For once and for all - it's NOT a right. Marriage is not a right - got that - NOT a constitutional right. You have no more a "right" than a many times convicted DUI offender has to continue driving a motor vehicle - that's the best analogy. Nobody took ANYTHING away from you.
You have every right to choose another lifestyle. You have every right to change your ways. You have every right to form a civil union. You have every right to be whatever you call it in your own privacy - I don't want to know about it.
The PEOPLE in three states have spoken - you lost at the ballot box [a novel idea,huh?]. And, as one of yours said, you may have awoken a sleeping giant and it's not you. For example, I like your great turnout in New York City - a few dozen out of millions and millions of people.
For once and for all - it's NOT a right. Marriage is not a right - got that - NOT a constitutional right. You have no more a "right" than a many times convicted DUI offender has to continue driving a motor vehicle - that's the best analogy. Nobody took ANYTHING away from you.
You have every right to choose another lifestyle. You have every right to change your ways. You have every right to form a civil union. You have every right to be whatever you call it in your own privacy - I don't want to know about it.
The PEOPLE in three states have spoken - you lost at the ballot box [a novel idea,huh?]. And, as one of yours said, you may have awoken a sleeping giant and it's not you. For example, I like your great turnout in New York City - a few dozen out of millions and millions of people.
Gays: show yourself | 5:15 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Gays- show yourself. Oh, you already have. Bigoted, hateful, vengeful,
violent, arrogant, law breakers, and unconstitutional. Yep, the description
seems to fit well. Oh, California is burning. Why are you not there supporting
the state. Too busy, protesting in another state for selfish reasons? Not
considerate of your neighbor in their plight? How sad that your cruel behavior
shouts so loudly across the land that no one can actually hear your rants of
meaness towards others' beliefs.
What Sir Elton John says | 5:16 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
"I don't want to be married. I'm very happy with a civil
partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should
have a civil partnership," said John. "The word marriage, I think,
puts a lot of people off. You get the same equal rights that we do when we have
a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil
partnerships."
The dinner, held at Cipriani Wall Street, was hosted by CNN's Anderson Cooper and featured a performance from Gladys Knight. John's foundation gets a four-star rating, the highest available, from CharityNavigator.com and John, in his speech, called for the enactment of a national AIDS policy.
The dinner, held at Cipriani Wall Street, was hosted by CNN's Anderson Cooper and featured a performance from Gladys Knight. John's foundation gets a four-star rating, the highest available, from CharityNavigator.com and John, in his speech, called for the enactment of a national AIDS policy.
Tax Exempt Status is the Thing | 5:18 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Of all the many many supporters of Prop 8, the reason the LDS Church gets
singled out is not because the protesters think the Church made the difference
in the Prop 8 outcome. The vast majority of these protesters probably don't
even care about gay marriage.
Instead, their protests are fueled by their general hate for the LDS Church and all things LDS, and the opening they're taking is based on this thinking: "Hey, hey, hey, we see an opening to take away the Church's tax exempt statuts. Let's go for it. Then, finally, we could cripple the Church's influence, growth and progress around the world."
The gay marriage prop 8 thing is just a pawn. The end game is destruction of the Church.
Man, oh man what deep-seated bigotry is alive and well in this the 21st century. The struggle for freedom from religious bigotry goes on.
Instead, their protests are fueled by their general hate for the LDS Church and all things LDS, and the opening they're taking is based on this thinking: "Hey, hey, hey, we see an opening to take away the Church's tax exempt statuts. Let's go for it. Then, finally, we could cripple the Church's influence, growth and progress around the world."
The gay marriage prop 8 thing is just a pawn. The end game is destruction of the Church.
Man, oh man what deep-seated bigotry is alive and well in this the 21st century. The struggle for freedom from religious bigotry goes on.
Peter | 5:19 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
The Gay Activist claim that they're only seeking
�equal rights� is seriously
disingenuous because they seek to turn society into Sodom and Gomorrah as Lot
experienced described in Genesis 19. The blessings and sanctity of the family
were established in the ancient law of marriage reflected in God giving Eve to
Adam to be his wife with the command to multiply and replenish the earth. The
sanctity of the family was further magnified in God's promise to Abraham
that through his posterity �all the families of the earth
would be blessed� with the gospel of salvation even life
eternal. The emphasis is on Family not the separate individual!
This ideal can not, could not, and never could be possible with any conceivable homosexual relationship. The sexual relationship between gays violates and corrupts the sanctity and promise for life eternal in holy marriage as blatantly as do adultery and fornication. To make a homosexual couple a �family� would pervert, destroy and overthrow this marvelous ancient law of eternal promise!
Their lie is vividly demonstrated in Massachusetts where parents seeking their parental right to protect their child from being taught homosexual behavior in primary education were thrown in jail.
This ideal can not, could not, and never could be possible with any conceivable homosexual relationship. The sexual relationship between gays violates and corrupts the sanctity and promise for life eternal in holy marriage as blatantly as do adultery and fornication. To make a homosexual couple a �family� would pervert, destroy and overthrow this marvelous ancient law of eternal promise!
Their lie is vividly demonstrated in Massachusetts where parents seeking their parental right to protect their child from being taught homosexual behavior in primary education were thrown in jail.
Sir Elton John con'd | 5:19 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
The entire text of this article which appeared in Wed Nov.12, 2008 USA today.
It can found online at their website or at protect marriage. Note also that
Gladys Knight, a Mormom, sang at his benefit. We truly don't hate gays.
See this article for yourself and then email it to everyone you know. He is the
world's most famous gay man and he says civil partnerships are equal to
marriages!!!!
Idea. | 5:21 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
I know!
Let's just vote on it...
oh, wait...
Let's just vote on it...
oh, wait...
just reward | 5:22 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
The mormon church is getting exactly what it deserves. You spout bigotry and
that's what you get in return. The mormons have united the LGBT community
more than ever before. We're mad and we're not going to take it any
more.
Clark | 5:22 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
For years and years and years, anti-Mormon preachers, speakers and protestors
have been saying the LDS Church is fading away into oblivion. They claim the LDS
Church is no longer able to produce any kind of effective change in the society
at large and that eventually, there membership will disappear into just a few
pockets of people here and there.
Well, if all this were true, then how come Prop 8 passed? How come the LDS Church has become the main target of gay activists? How come the LDS Church continues to receive large amounts of press coverage?
Simple, many people, whether they will admit or not, truly fear the LDS Church. It's not an Osama Bin Laden type fear, but a fear that, despite the best efforts of anti-mormons everyone, the LDS Church is growing and will continue to grow.
And as for Richard G. 4:04's comment, as well as Henry Drummond 4:11's comment, YES, the LDS Church has sown something. The have sown an awakeness to the world that they mean business, that they don't shamlessly cow-town to the winds of political correctness, and that even with small numbers, they can make a difference.
Well, if all this were true, then how come Prop 8 passed? How come the LDS Church has become the main target of gay activists? How come the LDS Church continues to receive large amounts of press coverage?
Simple, many people, whether they will admit or not, truly fear the LDS Church. It's not an Osama Bin Laden type fear, but a fear that, despite the best efforts of anti-mormons everyone, the LDS Church is growing and will continue to grow.
And as for Richard G. 4:04's comment, as well as Henry Drummond 4:11's comment, YES, the LDS Church has sown something. The have sown an awakeness to the world that they mean business, that they don't shamlessly cow-town to the winds of political correctness, and that even with small numbers, they can make a difference.
Chip | 5:23 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
I think the more accurate assessment of the situation is that 5 judges awoke the
real sleeping giant - the voting public. Gay marriage has been voted down in
every state where the citizens have been given a voice. A full 29 states have
constitutional bans on gay marriage, and we're still counting.
Contradiction!!! | 5:24 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
The gay community is extremely fierce about protecting its viewpoints because
they feel like another group (the LDS church) is infringing upon their beliefs.
Their desire to protect their beliefs is commendable. However, they argue that
this all comes down to protecting their personal rights to marry and because
another group feels differently than them, they call that group a bunch of
hating bigots. This is where they begin to cross the line.
On the other hand, The LDS church rarely gets involved in political matters, unless it is a moral issue in which the outcome could affect their beliefs as a church. So, in response to Proposition 8, the church encouraged members in California (not in Utah) to take a stand on an issue that could affect marriage, the core belief in their church.
Hmmmmm, both groups take a stand on an important issue that they both believe is effecting their rights. When the voice of the people decide the issue (not one church!) the gay-rights supporters freak out, point fingers and start calling names, because the church was doing the same thing that they are trying to do?
Seems like a contradiction to me! Who are the haters?
On the other hand, The LDS church rarely gets involved in political matters, unless it is a moral issue in which the outcome could affect their beliefs as a church. So, in response to Proposition 8, the church encouraged members in California (not in Utah) to take a stand on an issue that could affect marriage, the core belief in their church.
Hmmmmm, both groups take a stand on an important issue that they both believe is effecting their rights. When the voice of the people decide the issue (not one church!) the gay-rights supporters freak out, point fingers and start calling names, because the church was doing the same thing that they are trying to do?
Seems like a contradiction to me! Who are the haters?
david | 5:26 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
if you were at the demonstration today then you know the speeches were not anti
LDS. The focus was on marriage and equality. Speakers were explicit, as well,
in the need for respect of religious and other rights. Sheesh.
Democracy is about protesting to make your voice heard. The fact tat someone has a belief and has to deal with protesters because of the consequence of their belief is also democracy and takes no ones right away. That is part of the system. Stop whining pro-8 people. You won the election, now you see the energizing effects of your vote. That is how the system works.
Democracy is about protesting to make your voice heard. The fact tat someone has a belief and has to deal with protesters because of the consequence of their belief is also democracy and takes no ones right away. That is part of the system. Stop whining pro-8 people. You won the election, now you see the energizing effects of your vote. That is how the system works.
Proud to be ME | 5:25 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
I am proud to support the GLBT efforts. This county has a strong history of
civil rights movements. I'm just glad I can play an active role in this
one. March on my friends, march on.
Re: Henry Drummond | 5:27 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
You are quite mistaken. These protests are exposing the nation to the radical
fringe of the gay rights movement. That portion that feels singling out
individuals at their workplace, boycotting church farms and programs that serve
the needy, and yes even committing acts of domestic terrorism are all fine in
the name of tolerance. The irony is so very rich. I promise you, we'll
have public opinion survey soon enough and you'll see that most Americans
will be turned off by the extremist tactics employed by gay rights activists.
They are the ones who stepped over the line. They preach a message that faith
is the equivalent of hate. That supporting the traditional definition of
marriage is some how an explicit act of hate. It is not. We are taught to hate
the sin and love the sinner. We love our gay brothers and sisters, they are the
ones that have reduced us to a catch-phrase. Their rhetoric is firing up
nihilists and fanning the flame's of this country's culture war. They
would be wise to stop blaming others for their defeat and consider how they
managed to lose in one of the most liberal states in the nation.
Please | 5:28 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
If every voting elegible California mormon voted against prop 8, it still would
have passed. California democrats had a significantly greater role in passing
prop 8. The LDS church had a very minority roll in prop 8. For a group that
already has full domestic partnership rights, you are falsely making yourself a
victom. Please stop the delusional claims.
steve Semita | 5:30 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
The gays and lesbians need to realize that the Church of Jesus Christ bases its
doctrines on scriptures that are thousands of years old and on modern
revelation. The Bible leaves no doubt that marriage is to be between the sexes,
not within them. You cannot expect to challenge ancient laws and directions from
God by introducing changes that contradict these established rules. God calls
homosexuality an abomination. What homosexuals do is called sodomy since it is
recorded that Sodom was destroyed because of the practices of its inhabitants.
Will follows of Jesus Christ resist those who wish to call their actions
correct? Bet on it. Gays, lesbians, do what you want. That's your right.
But it is not marriage. It is not ordained of God and it must be fought against
as unacceptable to those who follow the teachings of God and His Son.
Rights | 5:35 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
The LDS church is not confined just to the state of Utah. There are tons of
members in CA, so the church has a right to protect it's members there as
much as anywhere. "Protect" you say? That's right. If people
would actually read the legislation that Prop. 8 overturned then they would know
that it actually would have been a major violation of rights for LDS people to
practice marraige in CA. LDS members could have lost the right to perform temple
marraiges in CA because they would have been required to allow gay marraiges in
LDS temples. This violates LDS beliefs about who is allowed to enter their
temples. As a result, the temples in CA may have needed to close. This is why
the church got involved, to protect it's members rights, not because of
hate. If gays want equal right, that's fine, but not at the expense of
others rights.
lawsofmurphy | 5:39 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Has anyone considered that this may not be a vote against Gay Rights as much as
it is a vote against the Judges in CA who CONSTANTLY introduce laws and do not
go through the proper channels? I feel like the national media is missing this
important side of the issue.
Not being from CA, but being in CA during the vote and listening to the discussions, most people I interacted with weren't anti gay, but "anti judges."
Not being from CA, but being in CA during the vote and listening to the discussions, most people I interacted with weren't anti gay, but "anti judges."
YAWN, YAWN, YAWN | 5:41 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Same stuff different day. Why can't the GLBT's come up with something
original.
We can fight back and forth all day long, but it does not negate the fact that the California's voted and it did not go your way.
What kind of cheese can I find for your "Whine".
We can fight back and forth all day long, but it does not negate the fact that the California's voted and it did not go your way.
What kind of cheese can I find for your "Whine".
Please | 5:43 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Why aren't any of these protestors showing up outside an Obama press
conference? He has stated on multiple occasions that he does not support gay
marriage. Where's the outrage?
Re: Robert Oh | 5:45 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Thanks for displaying your true colors.
You've been the catalyst for me to worker even harder in the future to prevent the indoctrination of my children.
Gay people, thank you again.
You've been the catalyst for me to worker even harder in the future to prevent the indoctrination of my children.
Gay people, thank you again.
To Stenar | 5:45 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
America is governed by the majority. We vote to elect a president,
representives, etc, does not the majority rule. Guess we should through out
Obama because the majority should not have their say. We need to be protected
from the Majority. Stenar, are you for real????
Everyone is treated equally | 5:47 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Disgusted,
"I agree with Anonymous. Why shouldn't we be able to vote on marriage between men and women. For all of you who are in straight marriages, just imagine if one day your marriage was not viewed as legitimate. How would that make you feel? Of course you would fight back."
If that vote targets a specific race, gender, sexual orientation, religion or any other factor then it is a violation of our civil rights and everyone would be well within their right to protest but that is a different issue because marriages of homosexuals are not invalidated based on their sexual orientation, or their race, or their gender, or their religion or any other factor. A gay person or a straight person who marries a person of the opposite sex will not have their marriages invalidated based on sexual orientation. A straight Mormon who married a gay Lutheran will not have their marriages invalidated based on their religion or sexual orientation.
This is what makes the current definition of marriage non-discriminatory. A woman can marry a man and a man can marry a woman regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race, religion or any other factor.
"I agree with Anonymous. Why shouldn't we be able to vote on marriage between men and women. For all of you who are in straight marriages, just imagine if one day your marriage was not viewed as legitimate. How would that make you feel? Of course you would fight back."
If that vote targets a specific race, gender, sexual orientation, religion or any other factor then it is a violation of our civil rights and everyone would be well within their right to protest but that is a different issue because marriages of homosexuals are not invalidated based on their sexual orientation, or their race, or their gender, or their religion or any other factor. A gay person or a straight person who marries a person of the opposite sex will not have their marriages invalidated based on sexual orientation. A straight Mormon who married a gay Lutheran will not have their marriages invalidated based on their religion or sexual orientation.
This is what makes the current definition of marriage non-discriminatory. A woman can marry a man and a man can marry a woman regardless of sexual orientation, gender, race, religion or any other factor.
Deal? | 5:48 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
This is from my good friend:
Dear people who are persecuting the Mormon Church for supporting Proposition 8,
I can understand why you�re angry. However now that you are mad at us about this can we finally be off the hook for polygamy? It hasn�t been practiced for over 100 years in our church and we�re still getting grief over it. It doesn�t make sense for you to criticize us for practicing an unorthodox form of marriage 100 years ago when that is what you are fighting to have the right for today.
Dear people who are persecuting the Mormon Church for supporting Proposition 8,
I can understand why you�re angry. However now that you are mad at us about this can we finally be off the hook for polygamy? It hasn�t been practiced for over 100 years in our church and we�re still getting grief over it. It doesn�t make sense for you to criticize us for practicing an unorthodox form of marriage 100 years ago when that is what you are fighting to have the right for today.
RE: JUST REWARD | 5:48 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
You are oh so mad, oh oh so mad, and you won't take it anymore...go line up
in the streets, yell, kick, scream, whatever you have to do to feel better...
Why don't you go line up on the borders of California, seems like the
MAJORITY over there voted yes, and they aren't Mormons....get a life...
Skippy | 5:49 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Lets move on to some other news. This story is old and yes I posted this
comment.
New Yorker | 5:49 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
expat:
you might think about tiptoeing back into the closet.
you might think about tiptoeing back into the closet.
geedub | 5:50 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Homosexuals are not now nor have ever been banned from marrying. Marriage is
DEFINED as the union of a man and a woman. Homosexuals are free to marry anyone
who is of the opposite sex.
German | 5:53 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Mormons have the right to disagree with a life style. They don't have the
right to interfere with some else's life.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire (1694 - 1778),
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Voltaire (1694 - 1778),
Please learn what a Republic is. | 5:55 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Stenar,
"America is not a simple democracy. America is a republic. This means the minority should be protected from the tyranny of the majority."
It also means that the majority must be protected from the tyranny of the minority. It doesn't go all one way. In this instance it is the minority who is trying to impose their will on the majority even though the majority doesn't discriminate against them based on their race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
Thomas Jefferson said it best when he said "[Bear] always in mind that a nation ceases to be republican only when the will of the majority ceases to be the law" and "We are sensible of the duty and expediency of submitting our opinions to the will of the majority, and can wait with patience till they get right if they happen to be at any time wrong." He went on to say "Against such a majority we cannot effect [the gathering them into the fold of truth] by force. Reason and persuasion are the only practicable instruments" and "If the measures which have been pursued are approved by the majority, it is the duty of the minority to acquiesce and conform."
"America is not a simple democracy. America is a republic. This means the minority should be protected from the tyranny of the majority."
It also means that the majority must be protected from the tyranny of the minority. It doesn't go all one way. In this instance it is the minority who is trying to impose their will on the majority even though the majority doesn't discriminate against them based on their race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
Thomas Jefferson said it best when he said "[Bear] always in mind that a nation ceases to be republican only when the will of the majority ceases to be the law" and "We are sensible of the duty and expediency of submitting our opinions to the will of the majority, and can wait with patience till they get right if they happen to be at any time wrong." He went on to say "Against such a majority we cannot effect [the gathering them into the fold of truth] by force. Reason and persuasion are the only practicable instruments" and "If the measures which have been pursued are approved by the majority, it is the duty of the minority to acquiesce and conform."
To Anonymous at 4:03 | 5:58 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
That is the dumbest comment that has ever been blogged. This issue is over
marriage defined between a man and woman. Not whether or not marriage can
happen. I am sick of hearing about all of this as a civil rights issue.
Everyone I ask cannot tell me how this is a civil rights issue. I have asked
both sides and the only thing I hear is marriage should be between anyone. Stop
comparing yourself to the African American movement. No one is beating or
killing gay or lesbians. You are not being shunned when you go into a
restaurant. You are not separated by a dividing line. The question is
marriage. It is defined as man and woman. No one is withholding benefits.
Nothing is being taken away except the sanctity of marriage being withheld. Sue
whomever you want. Marriage will always be between a man and a woman. Even if
some judges think differently. The power of procreation cannot happen between
two women and two men.
Last thing, stop addressing this as the Mormon's fault. No matter how much you protest in Utah or at any other Mormon church or temple it will not change the church's stance.
Last thing, stop addressing this as the Mormon's fault. No matter how much you protest in Utah or at any other Mormon church or temple it will not change the church's stance.
Stand firm | 5:59 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
If the only thing at issue were the civil rights of gay people, I would never
have voted yes for Prop 8. But, that is not the issue. You lost, and you
cannot bring yourselves to accept that all of your Hollywood money could not
overturn the people of Florida, Arizona, and California. The people have
spoken. See you in 2012.
George W. Bush | 5:59 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Actions have consequences. When you step into the fire, you should expect to
get burned.
We showed those Dixie Chicks what it means to be a citizen and speak out. Drive 'em out of business. Burn their CD's. Show them who's boss.
Keep following our righteous example. We showed you exactly how to do it.
We showed those Dixie Chicks what it means to be a citizen and speak out. Drive 'em out of business. Burn their CD's. Show them who's boss.
Keep following our righteous example. We showed you exactly how to do it.
Constitutional Rights? | 6:06 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Wow!
Can someone please tell me which constitutional right is being violated by a law the protects traditional marriage? I'm not quite seeing it.
IF there is a federal constitutional right involved, then why waste all the time and agony currently being undertaken? Why not just get a case before the U.S. Supreme Court and have the Court declare unconstitutional the law the voters in California just approved. Simple.
IF there isn't a federal constitutional right involved, then the people may pass a law limiting marriage to the traditional definition (which they have just done) and, given the fluidity of the California initiative process, other people may propose a different initiative and have that passed. Again, it's simple.
Until then, why doesn't the majority rule?
Can someone please tell me which constitutional right is being violated by a law the protects traditional marriage? I'm not quite seeing it.
IF there is a federal constitutional right involved, then why waste all the time and agony currently being undertaken? Why not just get a case before the U.S. Supreme Court and have the Court declare unconstitutional the law the voters in California just approved. Simple.
IF there isn't a federal constitutional right involved, then the people may pass a law limiting marriage to the traditional definition (which they have just done) and, given the fluidity of the California initiative process, other people may propose a different initiative and have that passed. Again, it's simple.
Until then, why doesn't the majority rule?
Rights... | 6:07 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
So why did Proposition 8 not go the way of the gay rights people in California?
I think that it could only be those big bad Mormons! I mean, what were we
thinking, allowing others to make a choice and vote on an issue? How silly.
Certainly everyone who wasn't Mormon and voted against the gay rights
people were brainwashed by those naughty boys in white with tags. If it
weren't for those big bad Mormons, surely gay rights would be different in
California right now.
Douglas | 6:08 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
The fact is that the voters in 3 states voted on an issue that was left to the
voters. It's interesting that homsexuality is being viewed as the same as
racial prejudice. Last I heard, sexual orientation isn't a minority. You
chose a life style that is far different than the norm. You don't qualify
as a couple, you are not the norm. You are also not a minority that needs
protecting. Marriage is a means of joy where families are created through the
gift of procreation. I don't think that's possible in a homosexual
relationship. I guess that's something that you will just have to get used
to. Hence the difference in marriage and civil unions.
re: John 4:49 | 6:09 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Homosexual marriage threatens traditional marriage in that once it becomes legal
homosexuals will use that power to legitimize homosexuality in churches,
schools, etc. This is not a lie.
Go ahead, any of you homosexuals (especially now that you are smoking angry at the LDS church) and HONESTLY tell us that the homosexual lobby doesn't have the destruction of organized religion on their agenda. This is what will happen when they decide to sue.
Go ahead, any of you homosexuals, and HONESTLY tell us that indoctrination of our children will not take place once homosexual marriage is legalized by the state. It's already taking place in Massachusetts...google it.
Regarding your slam on polygamy:
What do you think will happen when homosexual marriage is legalized? Use the same arguments for homosexual marriage and HOW CAN YOU DENY POLYGAMISTS THE SAME RIGHT??? Legalization of homosexual marriage is a dangerous slippery slope that you yourself don't want to walk down (as evidenced by your concern about polygamy).
Most Americans really could care less what people do with their private lives. But there is a line drawn when we realize equal "marriage" is a not what it seems. It's a power play. Pure and simple.
Go ahead, any of you homosexuals (especially now that you are smoking angry at the LDS church) and HONESTLY tell us that the homosexual lobby doesn't have the destruction of organized religion on their agenda. This is what will happen when they decide to sue.
Go ahead, any of you homosexuals, and HONESTLY tell us that indoctrination of our children will not take place once homosexual marriage is legalized by the state. It's already taking place in Massachusetts...google it.
Regarding your slam on polygamy:
What do you think will happen when homosexual marriage is legalized? Use the same arguments for homosexual marriage and HOW CAN YOU DENY POLYGAMISTS THE SAME RIGHT??? Legalization of homosexual marriage is a dangerous slippery slope that you yourself don't want to walk down (as evidenced by your concern about polygamy).
Most Americans really could care less what people do with their private lives. But there is a line drawn when we realize equal "marriage" is a not what it seems. It's a power play. Pure and simple.
Anonymous | 6:15 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
I hope the church takes a beatin' on this one. They have chosen...poorly.
Los Angeles | 6:17 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
The attach on LDS members and buildings has slowed in LA a bit because of the
backlash here. Many people who have not necessarily been very friendly to the
LDS have called to thank them for their actions. Pastors have asked their
congregations to call and thank there LDS friends.
The Gay and Lesbian leaders here have suddenly realized that their actions have been counter productive to their cause. They are now viewed as mean, vindictive, intolerant and vulgar. Beating up old women and using filthy speech in the presence of children has definitely not helped their cause. The media may be on the side of the Gays and Lesbians in this instance but the people are not.
I suspect Prop 8 would pass by a more substantial margin today than on Nov. 4.
The Gay and Lesbian leaders here have suddenly realized that their actions have been counter productive to their cause. They are now viewed as mean, vindictive, intolerant and vulgar. Beating up old women and using filthy speech in the presence of children has definitely not helped their cause. The media may be on the side of the Gays and Lesbians in this instance but the people are not.
I suspect Prop 8 would pass by a more substantial margin today than on Nov. 4.
Jared | 6:17 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
At the core of this debate is the separation of church and state. The Book of
Mormon warns against laws governing beliefs that would "bring men onto
unequal grounds" (Alma 30:7). At the same time, churches need to be
protected from government intervention that would infringe upon the
church's practices (providing that these practices are not harmful and do
not take away the rights of individual's outside of the church).
Ironically, the solution to this debate resides within the current practices of
the LDS church. Currently, the church acknowledges a "tiered" marriage
system consisting of a "civil" or "legal" marriage and a
"higher" marriage system based upon the religious teachings of the
church (Temple Marriage). By separating the "legal" and
"spiritual" compenents of marriage, the legal rights and
responsibilities afforded by government recognized marriages can be extended to
all individuals while church sanctioned marriages could be controlled by the
religious institutions offering them as part of their practices. Churches would
have control over the conditions of entering into these religiously governed
marriages (e.g., by limiting to heterosexual couples). Ultimately, the church
could then focused on strengthening members through the meaning and sanctity of
the religious aspects of the marriage.
Sky | 6:20 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Gay community? Why does the LDS church and it's member think someone who
supports individual rights, which also means yes gay people, are they themselves
gay?
I am a married hetro sexual female who stands by the bible verse judge less shall be judged. I accept this is not my place nor anyone else on this beautiful planet to judge another. Perhaps members of LDS faith should stop reading the Book of Mormon for a moment and re educate themselves on the Bible and what it means to say you are a christian.
Love only creates more love. Anger and hate are the destruction pieces of any civilization.
I am a married hetro sexual female who stands by the bible verse judge less shall be judged. I accept this is not my place nor anyone else on this beautiful planet to judge another. Perhaps members of LDS faith should stop reading the Book of Mormon for a moment and re educate themselves on the Bible and what it means to say you are a christian.
Love only creates more love. Anger and hate are the destruction pieces of any civilization.
Enough | 6:20 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
If the press wouldn't give them so much attention, maybe they would shut up
and go home!
CATE | 6:21 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
Can't the so-called blacklists work both ways? Those of us who deeply
believe marriage between a man and a woman is the best way to strengthen a
civilization (not to mention perpetuate the population - has anyone taken
biology?) can send support and business to the people who voted their
conscience. The sleeping giant actually represents those of us who are so busy
trying to keep our communities together, despite efforts from those who just
want their way regardless of consequences. We don't have time to protest,
because we are parents and teachers and community volunteers picking up the
pieces of a very threatened society. I am not threatened by anyone in the GLBT
population, and I know there are many good people who have been hurt. But they
ARE free to pursue their lifestyle, just as I am free to pursue my traditional
lifestyle. Let's show our support instead of fighting!
CITIZEN | 6:22 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
I am so concerned about al the demonstrations that i tossed and turned last-nite
and didn't fall asleep untill 9 p.m.but i'm sure i'll get over
it!!!
Anonymous | 6:22 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008
why can't i say God at graduation?
why can't i say in God we trust during the preamble...in fact, why did we completely get rid of saying the preamble?
Why can't we say a prayer at sport games anymore?
Why can't we say a prayer at graduation anymore?
GAYS believe in being OPEN minded- as long as it is THEIR way!
LIBERALS believe in being OPEN minded- as long as it is THEIR way!
When it comes to the average God-fearing person...our rights have quickly been taken away!
why can't i say in God we trust during the preamble...in fact, why did we completely get rid of saying the preamble?
Why can't we say a prayer at sport games anymore?
Why can't we say a prayer at graduation anymore?
GAYS believe in being OPEN minded- as long as it is THEIR way!
LIBERALS believe in being OPEN minded- as long as it is THEIR way!
When it comes to the average God-fearing person...our rights have quickly been taken away!
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