Deseret News | Marriage at center of 3 rallies today

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Marriage at center of 3 rallies today

Richard Ryberg Adams | 7:26 a.m. Nov. 15, 2008

At this time, Mormons would be wise to recall their embarrassing history of discrimination against African Americans and realize that history favors those who fight for their civil rights and not those who try to suppress others.

Hoboclown | 7:28 a.m. Nov. 15, 2008

Smells like Mittard campaigning to me
"See we`re mainstream Christians too"

Ever hear of the sermon on the mount?

Matthew | 8:58 a.m. Nov. 15, 2008

Religious organizations used their members' money and manpower to revise California's state constitution to reflect their personal religious beliefs. However, the United States is not a theocracy! We separate church and state.

California's constitution can be *amended* by a majority vote, but it can only be *revised* with the approval of two-thirds of both houses of the legislature and then submitted to voters. This vote was a REVISION that removes the constitutional guarantee of equality. A majority is not granted the power to take away a right guaranteed by the constitution.

It is unjust and unconstitutional to discriminate against a category of people in the United States of America. Voters have disenfranchised American citizens by denying them their constitutional civil right to marry. Marriage is a a legal right.

The California Supreme Court majority opinion did not affect religion. It stated that "no religion will be required to change its policies or practices with regard to same-sex couples, and no religious officiant will be required to solemnize a marriage in contravention of his or her religious beliefs."

The guarantee of equality exists to protect minorities from discrimination at the hands of a majority.

Comments continue below

Shucks | 10:42 a.m. Nov. 15, 2008

Richard Ryberg Adams, it was a long standing desire from within the membership of the church and not from the civil rights movement that spurred the eventual blessing of bestowing the priesthood on all worthy males. Even prophets are limited in doing God's will when he alone assigns a time line. Remember also Richard, when all this priesthood activity first began it was a one in twelve system...meaning only males from the tribe of Levi held the priesthood which in the beginning was the lessor priesthood, once referred to as the Levitical, now known as the Aaronic priesthood. The Civil rights movement had nothing to do with the development of the early Priesthood and certainly had little if anything to do with extending priesthood rights to African American members of the church. The Civil Rights movement did however instill very strong feelings among the membership and several prophets to prayerfully plead to our Heavenly Father to open the passage for this long awaited manifestation.

I fail to see any correlation between bestowing something promised by God in his own due time and the desire of righteousness to suppress immorality being anywhere near being embarassingly historic or discriminating. God despises immorality

What Sir Elton John says | 11:28 a.m. Nov. 15, 2008

"I don't want to be married. I'm very happy with a civil partnership. If gay people want to get married, or get together, they should have a civil partnership," said John. "The word marriage, I think, puts a lot of people off. You get the same equal rights that we do when we have a civil partnership. Heterosexual people get married. We can have civil partnerships."

The dinner, held at Cipriani Wall Street, was hosted by CNN's Anderson Cooper and featured a performance from Gladys Knight. John's foundation gets a four-star rating, the highest available, from CharityNavigator.com and John, in his speech, called for the enactment of a national AIDS policy.

Sir Elton John continued | 11:31 a.m. Nov. 15, 2008

The entire text of this article can be found online at USA today or at protect marriage. He is the world's most famous gay man and he says they have equal rights as gays. Notice also that Gladys Knight, a Mormon performed at his benefit. We truly do not hate gays.

John Pack Lambert | 11:36 a.m. Nov. 15, 2008

To Shucks,
Official Declaration 2 was a revelation from God. If you study its history you will see the main issue to President Kimball was that without it the church could not teacher the gospel to every nation, tongue and people, and the gospel could not preached to every man in his own language.
It was the longstanding revelations, not the civil rigths movement that caused men like Spencer W. Kimball to plead to God for an understanding of what the church's policy should be.
On the other hand Spencer W. Kimball said that the church would condemn homosexuality as long as men had bodies to defile.
The analogy to civil rights is meaningless. Homosexuality is an identity built around sin. Affirmation wants the church to stop defining all homosexual behvior as a violation of the law of chastity. God's laws are not open for negotiation, and until they realize that they will make no headway.

Robo | 12:10 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

Matthew 8:58 a.m.

"It is unjust and unconstitutional to discriminate against a category of people in the United States of America. Voters have disenfranchised American citizens by denying them their constitutional civil right to marry. Marriage is a a legal right."

What about polygamists then?

1 person 1 vote | 12:25 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear in the constitution at all. The First amendment of the constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."

Seems to me what happened in California was that people exercised their religious as well as democratic rights. Everyone, Mormons, baptists, penicostols, seventh day adventists, Muslims, athiests, agnostics, and the GBLT community all had an equal vote.

Now it is up to the courts to determine if prop 8 was constitutional or not. No amount of marching around LDS temples or even the Vatican will change the law without due process.

ryan | 12:36 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

Polygamists support a lifestyle that is psychologically recognized has being easily abusive.
So Robo, there is your answer.

Me too | 12:42 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

Marital status has NOTHING to do Equal Rights. We are all protected equally the same!

Anon 808 | 1:53 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

In reality the Churches History with Blacks is quite good. Dating way back.

People bring up Declaration II when they have nothing else to go with.

This is so far from that in anyway. Dec II Granted (forced in some cases) Equality to a small and very special group of people. Worthy males of any Color, not just Black.

This was perhaps the Greatest Statement of Equality ever expressed, and the Church caught all kinds of flack for that.

As one of my Institute Instructors said "we where right then and we are right now" if the Prophet ever gets the Revelation to accept and allow and support Gay marriage I am sure he will. In the mean time if you need the Churches stand in Writing go to the Churches Web Site. Their stand on Gay marriage and just about everything else is there. Organized in Alphabetical Order by Subject. Plainly spoken and real easy to understand.

uncannygunman | 2:29 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

I'm curious as to whether the "Honor Democracy" folks would be organizing the same rally had the vote gone the other way.

meshe | 2:31 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

Let me make sure I understand this. Everyone in America CAN get married if they meet the qualifications. Like being of age, not marrying your sibling and you can't already be married. Gay people opted out of the program because it requires for a woman to marry a man. Now gays have the "right" to redefine marriage to include themselves? You have the "right" to have gay sex taught to our children (gays don't make children by themselves) like they do in Massachusetts? Gays have the "right" to infringe upon religious liberties? (See NPR article outlining the cases that have already been presented before the courts.) Gays have the "right" to redefine marriage and in turn threaten the freedom of speech of millions? Speaking out against homosexuality will be considered "hate speech" and punishable by law.

eastern mo | 4:41 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

"Love thy neighbor" means to love the person, not the sick, neurotic, abusive behaviors the person may exhibit. It is the behavior that is denounced and hopefully corrected.

Immoral nations seldom stand long because of its internal decay. Anyone who can read can discover this for themselves. This is why so many use the democratic process to keep sodomy from the definition of marriage.

Furthermore, those who scream separation of church and religion have not read and understood the 1st Ammendment: there shall be no state church and the sate will not infinge upon the religious.

Shucks..... | 5:20 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

John Pack Lambert, I couldn't agree with you more. The whole analogy lacks any basis when immorality cowardly guises itself as a main stream civil movement. Perversion nor the devients who practice such immorality, which has long been defined in all societies, cannot be transformed merely by politicizing itself as a fictitional discriminated minority. To be allowed to do so in itself is a perversion of the need to maintain not only a main stream society but especially a morally endowed society. Sodomy is no different now than it was at the time of Sodom and Gamorah. As you said there is no room for negotiation of God's laws....nor can any earthly government supercede them. There is no civil right issue when civility itself means promoting and adhering to moral values. Religion has an absolute obligation to keep government in check.

Tom Wall Hemet Stake | 7:32 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

I express my gratitude to all the Latter Day Saints who in service to future generations are working together to avoid the pain and problems that come to families, neighborhoods, and institutions when some refuse to act in accordance with values set by a loving God. The following five characteristics of our Latter Day Saint population are what have always kept us on the correct path.
We work together and head in the same direction.
We focus upon doing that which we believe Jesus wants us to do.
We are unified for a righteous cause.
We glorify Jesus by living His commandments.
We accept those called by the Savior as our leaders without objection.
To those who harass us we want you to know that we fear our God more than man. The day will come when you will under stand us.

Zobewan | 7:34 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

Matthew - Marriage is NOT a right. It is rooted in religion.
Civil Marriage Is between a man and a woman outside the church context.
Back in the 60's "marriage" became passe', unnecessary, and irrelevant outside the context of religion! "Who needs a piece of paper?", we ALL said.
"Marriage" IS a religious term and should not be used outside the context of a man and a woman....think of another term...other than marriage...oh, you already have one??..then what's the point??? Must be a MONEY thing...ah yes, the almighty something for nothing motivation disguised again as the irrelevant, and selfish fulfilment of self and satisfying of your own selfish desires. Marriage is the LEAST self-serving thing that can be done in life because you both give up yourselves in the rearing of CHILDREN.
It is NOT your civil right to get more of my tax money for nothing.
It is my understanding that 44 states voted FOR the ban, so redouble your efforts, without the violence, cz thats just hurting your cause, and try again next time, like all the rest of us have to do, in pursuit of those goals important to each of us individually.

ThomasAlex | 10:46 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

The word Marriage may have derived from Religion, but the act there of didn't. The conjoining of individuals into a relationship is based on our primitive need for love and companionship, for social or legal engagement. The Traditional Christian Marriage may have been blessed by God. But the earliest of such unions existed thousands of years before, this Christian Institution was created. With History, we are given hundreds of thousands of years of human and social change. Your choice of Religion is your free will, choosing your mate is the root of our existence.

ThomasAlex | 10:55 p.m. Nov. 15, 2008

Only 30 States have bans on Gay Marriage!

To Matthew | 12:30 a.m. Nov. 16, 2008

I wonder if you understand what a tornado will be unleashed when you again convince 4 California supreme court justices to again negate the votes of millions of Californians.

Today's demonstrations will pale in comparison to those that will erupt when 52+% of Californians become convinced that their right to vote has been sold off to curry favor with less than 1% of the population.

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