Typical behavior. I am sick of Gay bashing.They cry their rights have been
violated, so have mine. We are not the only faith to stand up for what we
believe is right. Many many others are also now doing the same thing. Many
African American churches nationwide have voiced the same opinion. Gays slam our
faith saying we are horrible and non-loving people when they themselves are full
of violent acts, and destruction. Gods laws are unchanging. It says so in the
Bible.He is the one who made this law.Our world is unraveling. I am so
disappointed in the gay community.They can keep vandalizing churches,
sending hate mail,hacking and whatever they need to do to send their message.
This is getting to be typical behavior for the gay community. THEIR actions are
hateful. Far more than opposing prop 8.
Jessica, I think it's pretty irresponsible to blame this on the LGBT
community. ANYONE could have hacked into the system. It could be anyone who
feels the LDS church has done them wrong. It could be anyone who is using the
Prop 8 fight as a reason to target the Mormons. Be rational.
Dear Concserned,Let us see. Sinc ethe passing of prop-8 over 20,000
pro-gay-marriage people have been threatening to burn down the temples and
churches of the LDS, to murder LDS members, to picket, shout obsenities, threats
and other falsehoods.This is all in less than a week. But no...
they couldn't be behind any of this... no siree...
Calling your opponents hateful is just a tool to silence them
Let's see, GLBT's have all the rights of marriage with civil unions, but that's
not enough. They want the approbation of society to their unnatural acts, and
they want to indoctrinate our children into their "lifestyle".I
don't see how GLBT rights are being abused, when they are trying to change 6,000
years of civilization's respect for man-woman marriage.
Ah yes, now it begins. Typical of "they can dish it out, but they can't deal
with it". How about a parade gathering similar to the homosexual "Pride" thing,
only it would be for traditional marriage. Can you imagine the negative Media
coverage and the backlash?? The CA black people voted by 70% for Prop 8. Have
you heard of any black church being vandalized?? No, because the homos are
afraid to be considered racist.
Um, Concerned, who ELSE do you think might have done this? You must have some
other suspects in mind if you think the same people who would storm an LDS
temple in broad daylight would NOT hack unseen into a prominent Mormon-culture
website.I'm willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. And
sure, the specific individuals have yet to be identified. But in this case,
sorry to say, there's really not much wiggle room. When those individuals ARE
identified, there's a really, REALLY high probability that we'll find they're
part of the anti-Prop. 8 mob.In the past few days, we've seen a
fairly substantial group of "tolerant," "loving," "equality-minded" people show
that the ONLY right they deserve is one to a speedy trial. "Marriage" doesn't
even enter the discussion at this point.So no, Concerned, I'm afraid
there isn't much doubt.
Even when it's true? Because, I'm pretty sure the white powder was a true
gesture of hate.
I too am getting tired of the militant gay community trying to force their
"morality" on the rest of us. If you don't believe the way they want you to
believe they are going to picket your places of worship, boycott you out of a
job, terrorize you with letter bombs, and burn your religious. For a group
began by just asking for tolerance, it sure has turned ugly!
Are you saying, "Calling your opponents hateful is just a tool to silence them"
in reference to what was said in this blog by jessicasmith | 11:24 p.m, or are
you referring to the thousands of blogs, and I mean thousands, that I have read
by people that oppose Prop 8, saying this about anyone that has supported Prop
8? Saying these one-line, truth-filled statements, anonymously must make you
feel you are a voice of reason in the wilderness, championing your cause for the
opponents of Prop 8, but when it comes down to it, it shows how little you have
listened to and thought through this controversy and the rhetoric that has been
spewed from both sides of the issueOn the other hand if you are
listening to the rhetoric from all of the blogs, from all of these Prop 8
related articles, then yes, both sides are trying to control or silence one
another. It is not just the Prop 8 supporters. While we're at it,
some (overused)statements used by mainly the Prop 8 opponents, used to try to
control a faith-base movement, are: "Shame on you",and "It is so Christ-like of
you to (fill-in-your-own-Prop_8-Opposition-Phrase)
Lets blame the LDS for everything:1. Wiping out on your bike when
you were 5 years old2. Losing your job.3. Getting a "B" in
spanish4. Losing the football game three years ago.5. For
something that will happen two years from now.Why do people seek to blame
the LDS church for everything.What is that about?
Would you call these actions "loving"? Liberal extremists are the most
open-minded people in the world until they encounter someone who disagrees with
them. The people who supported Prop 8 have not picketed, attacked, vandalized or
bothered this bunch in any way. What they have done is taken a moral stance in
an immoral world. They (and of course it's not all of them) are acting like
spoiled brat children who didn't get their way and are throwing a fit. If you
can't win the argument you attack the messenger. It is hateful and obviously
it's not going to silence them because they have no morals and no shame.
Concerned,You be rational. Just your everyday Mormon haters are not going
to put lesbian porn on the site. The timing is also too coincidental. We should
not accuse anyone without evidence, but it is not irrational to suspect gay
activists in this case.These groups are very skilled at their attacks and
at pushing their agenda. They have a live target with the LDS church and they
are at war. I now believe this is the sad truth. It is too bad for all. These
kinds of actions and the "rationale" coming from the gay community are
unfortunate for all, especially the kind and "good" in the gay community.
Current actions will polarize communities and ultimately the whole US. Very
Whatever the rioters/opponents of Prop 8 do will not make the LDS Church change
their stance or their beliefs. Nor will it make the devote members of the LDS
church less strong in their convictions. That's all.
seeing these people's true colors. This is what they are made of. They have
revealed themselves and it sure isn't pretty.
Why are the LGBT targeting the Mosques? Just wondering...
Head Under a Rock-I live in CA accross the street from a "mega church" (the ones
that have like 25k members attend every week) that participated and they are
picketed on Sundays as well. All people who contributed are getting picketed.
Part of freedom of speech is accepting the consequences of freedom of speech.Should anyone have done this? Absolultey not. However, can you really
think of a better way to upset an LDS themed website right now? Until they talk
to the person who did it, we will not know the cause.
One other thing, I have not heard of death threats against members of the churh.
The picketing is not uncommon in a situation like this. Similar to the way there
were "Yes on Prop 8" people holding signs at every major intersection in CA,
people who are opposed to what happened want to make their voice heard and
further the fight. Quite honestly, I don't think anyone in the
church PR office is suprised at this response. The LGBT community is upset about
what happened. They are finding a way to keep it in the spotlight. Not uncommon
either. The problem is that for some reason lots of members of the church
thought that once the election was over, this would end. This is like the
church's involvement in the ERA. It isn't going to go away. People who disagree
are not going to forget.The church took it's stand. Others will take
theirs. Similar to the fact the church said it was not picking on the LGBT
community, they are not picking in the church.
Bring it on. As the lgbt tip toe around threatening people, this will backfire.
I believe some of us are getting sick enough to start dishing their hateful spew
back at them. Remember, 98% of people aren't lgbt.
The gays calling the LDS cjurch hateful won't silence it one bit. Truth is
truth and right is right. Sin will always be sin. The gay lifestyle
is immoral according to the commandments of God. It always has been and it
always will be. We feel for those involved in it and pray for their salvation.
If you read the blogs on the DN and all other sites regarding Prop 8, you'll
find hateful expressions on both sides targeting the other. As LDS, we should be
examples of charity and love toward others. The gays may call us names. They may
fight to teach our children that homosexuality is not only acceptable, but the
only choice for those with gay tendencies. They may fight to have their unions
equalled with that of heterosexual marriage by redifining marriage. They may
picket and shout obsenities at us. They may boycott Utah (they won't boycott
their own state). But given all that, we must understand that this activity is
not the norm for the greater gay community. For the most part, they are loving,
caring couples who are trying to be valued as living, breathing, thinking,
intelligent brothers and sisters to all human kind. In the same way we don't
want to be labeled like the few bad examples of LDS, let's not judge all gays by
the acts of a few (who may not even be on the gay side of the battle). Love thy
neighbor and vote for righteousness in our communities.
The bunch of sore losers on the prop8 thing ought to grow up, take their lumps
and at least be civl in thier protests.I worry about a what a
backlash from the prop8 supporters and those with no stake in this who are being
openy attacked might be.
Voice of warning to the no on Prop 8 community: We need to be careful here...by
all this protesting, we are awaking a "sleeping giant" of religeous and
non-religous citizens who are sympathetic that mormons are being singled out. I
am fearful we are taking a step backward and hurting the cause...many who sided
with us on prop 8 are now re-thinking their stand all because of believed
"unfair" treatment to a little church. Please be careful!
There are a few people who are out of control, not all. Like I said, I live in
CA and there were also a few "Vote yes on 8" people who were out of control
too.You know as well as I do, there are idiots in any organization.
If someone participated in supporting prop 8, that is their right. It is also
the right of the people who support same sex marriage to boycott them, etc. They
chose to get involved in a political fight (even if it was for their moral
reasons). They have to accept the consequences for their actions.And
take their lumps? Really? So Rosa Parks should have just shut up and sat at the
back of the bus?
If the courts invalidate Prop 8, you will see supporters refile the Prop to
amend the CA constitution. At that point in the next election, the backlash
against the anti-Prop 8 crowd will make pass by a far larger percentage than it
did this time. The intimidation tactics by the anti-Prop 8 crowd as well as the
religophobic (did I just create a new word?) anti-Prop 8 crowd are doomed to
fail. Just like Roe V. Wade, the far left can't get anything passed unless the
courts do it for them. When the people actually speak, that can't handle it and
go out and cry, freak out, and pout.
NO ONE in the world practices what they preach. Live and let live would end
world suffering and conflict. If you are passionate about your cause, live it
without having to let the world know about it or force it on anyone else. YOU
are NOT correct about anyone elses lifestyle or choices. Offer a kind hand to
someone in need and follow through when the it is accepted. Baptists protest
Mormons and LDS can't figure out why. Alternate lifestyles want to teach young
school children about having two mommys or daddys and try to force the issue
through courts. PETA would have you eat and wear only what they deem worthy. Why
do we have to define love, if we are preaching unconditonal love is the answer.
Why can't we pray to who we want when we want and post copies of these wise
reminders for all to see ? Why would good people fight so hard to take down a
symbol on public ground for a highway patrolman killed serving or go out of
their way to heckle a funeral procession of a fallen soldier who fought for them
? These are sad times.
Less than 5% of the USA population is homosexual. Where do they get all that
power? My opinion is that homosexuals are being used by the powerful people who
are trying to destroy the traditional Christian values that made this such a
I have had it. The rogue mobocracy homosexual propaganda machine has gone too
far. The LDS faith, Catholic faith (30% of Cali voters), and
hundreds of other religions and NGO organizations ethically follow every law,
every rule to exercise their constitutional rights to defend fathers and
mothers.The citizens of California voted in the millions TWICE to
strike down articically creating and supporting an illogically conceived
'protected class of citizens', with their own rights and authority to strip the
rights of the rest of our society...all based on their bedroom preferences.How does the homosexual propaganda machine respond? With visciousness,
hate crimes targed at the LDS faith. So far:Burning hate signsBurning a Book of MormonThreats of assaultHacking into the LDS
website following the passage of prop 8Calls to murder members of the LDS
faith on blogs (SL tribune)Shooting windows out of multiple LDS chapelsAct of terrorism mailing the SLC temple anthrax-looking substance.I have TRIPPLED my sizable donation to the next state battle to protect
traditional marriage. Responsible citizens must not allow this madness to
I didn't support prop 8 because of the average gay person who would handle
things peacefully and get their way and move on. I supported it because of these
extremists. Anything to keep some kind of law on them, they're sick perverts and
yes shove it down everyones throat. These are the same people who would sue
churches and try and force their life style on everyone. To bad they've ruined
it for the rest of the peaceful gay community.
1. These are the latter days and latter day challenges will come -- this is
only the beginning.2. As tough as it may be, we are commanded to
and commended for LOVING our enemies.3. Satan and his angels know
who the Church is and knows of its prophetic future. Satan and his (un)masked
angels, who regard this earth as their telestial turf, will (a) vigorously
resist all rezoning efforts and (b) attack the LDS Church with more vigor than
anyone else since we truly possess the truth ... and they hate truth.4. President Cannon in 1866 warned that "the war" in Heaven has transferred
to earth and that this conflict "will [come to] occupy the thoughts an
minds of all the inhabitants of the earth." (Journal of Discourses 11:227-29)
The LDS Church "will be at the epicenter of all that." (Elder Maxwell in a talk
"All Hell is Moved," BYU, 1978)5. We need not be alarmists,
pessimists, dismayed or dislocated by the difficulties that will most assuredly
arise as we stay the true course.6. As we stand for truth, fence
sitters will slowly be shaken loose and the Gospel will march forward boldly.God bless.
Mormons cast their bread upon the water, and now it is returning to them ten
fold.Puzzling that you would expect anything different when you deny
people their equality and rights!
"Part of freedom of speech is accepting the consequences of freedom of
speech."Free speech and picketing are one thing. Criminal acts
(hacking websites, obscenity, vandalizing religious buildings, sending white
powder through the mail) are entirely another. Free speech does not include the
right to engage in criminal acts, nor are criminal acts the proper "consequences
of free speech."
Re: goodvsevilGood point. There are a lot of non-gays that support their
friends, and there are those that just want to support that lifestyle, even if
they are not gay. Many people out there have no values so it is easy to
participate in destroying traditional Christian values.
What part of Leviticus 18:22 don't you understand?! And after reading that try
Lev. 20:30, or maybe Gen. 19:1-11, or why not Rom 1:27, and possibly Jude 1:7
too. ANY church that performs or approves same-sex marriage CLEARLY hasn't read
Most of these comments seem so inflamatory that it could give the impression
that they represent the majority view on both sides of the issue...or maybe not.
There have always been haters, judgers, pushers, immoralists, both straight and
gay, on a wide variety of issues...if we would only do a little reading of
history, including our own here in Utah, we might notice this. Look at the crime
statistics, even for the Salt Lake Valley, and you can draw your own
conclusions. To me, most of these comments reflect the need on all sides to
repent ourselves first... then maybe we would better know how to remove the
beams from the eyes of others.
A "No on 8" website suffered from a sophisticated Denial of Service cyber attack
before the election as well. The attack originated in Georgia, Texas, California
and New Jersey and prompted an FBI complaint. So it's not just Meridian Mag
being targeted for mischief.At this point there is so much
disinformation and hyperbole on both sides of the issue, I don't see how the
core problems can be resolved outside of the courts. Given the enormous issues
facing the country, war on two fronts, and the downward spiraling economy, this
internal "uncivil war" is dividing us to distraction. Rather than
fixating on an election year wedge issue, there are far more pressing problems
facing us ALL that need attention. How about the number of families in poverty
that go hungry or are losing their homes? How about our seniors who have to
decide between food, meds, or heat? Where's the blazing passion for those
issues?Just a thought.
Remember the words of Elder Hales in this last General Conference. Some people
mistakenly think responses such as silence, meekness, forgiveness, and bearing
humble testimony are passive or weak. But to love [our] enemies, bless
them that curse [us], do good to them that hate [us], and pray
for them which despitefully use [us], and persecute [us]
(Matthew 5:44) takes faith, strength, and, most of all, Christian courage.Yes, we can speak out, but do so in love and respect. Take the high road.
"Lets blame the LDS for everything:1. Wiping out on your bike when
you were 5 years old2. Losing your job.3. Getting a "B" in
spanish4. Losing the football game three years ago.5. For something
that will happen two years from now.Why do people seek to blame the LDS
church for everything.What is that about?"If the LDS has
nothing to do with the passage of prop 8, why did the church put so much effort
into it? Why were millions and millions of dollars requested? Why did church
leaders praise the efforts of the members? Why did members walk neighborhoods,
make phone calls and show their signs?If it had no effect, why did
you bother?In my part of CA, I saw few minorities on the corners.
All I saw were my LDS friends.
Brigham Young said that as the church grows in popularity and we become more
affluent in these latter days, persecution will began and be more severe than
ever known. Is this the beginning. Prayer? I pray for the second
It seems that the gays live by the standard, "Live and let live...unless you
disagree with us, then we will have a hussy fit and scream at you".
whats next, marry an animal? maybe they love their cat and want to marry it?
Marriage is for a Man and Women.
To goodvsevil:The reason "they" get all that power is because you still
think only 5% of the population is different from you - wrong! Look
around, chances are that someone in your family, a co-worker or even your boss
is different than you. Just because someone lets you rant and rave about your
traditional values does not mean that they agree with your extreme views. You might want to look in the mirror as well and see why you are so
Sending white power through the mail, illegally hacking web sites and
vandalizing buildings are not the consequences of free speech. They are the
consequences of a community of sore losers, that for all their pomp, are
nothing but little kids who can't understand why someone would disagree with
them. Childish, simplistic and tedious, that is going to be the perception of
the Gay community if this stuff continues.
Hacking websites and posting obscene content doesn't help their cause. It only
reflects poorly on gay/lesbian community as a whole and hinders their efforts to
force people to accept their immoral actions as natural and normal.
I am happy that Prop. 8 passed, but I don't believe it will be upheld by the
lawless courts. I DO think that soon, very soon, gay "marriage" will be legal
everywhere. I see this whole Prop. 8 situation as a test for the LDS people.
Some have said that they are faithful members and that they follow the Prophet,
but that in this instance he was wrong, while others have followed the counsel
of the Prophet. Well, what better way to sift the wheat than with something
like this? This isn't a test for the world. This is a test for the LDS. Who
is on the Lord's side? Who will follow the Prophet? When push comes to shove,
and things get a little uncomfortable (or a lot uncomfortable!), and we want to
lean unto our own understanding, what better test than one like this? We know
things are supposed to get very bad, far worse than Sodom and Gomorrah, but I
truly believe that this is a test for the Church members. We are being sifted
to see whether we will stand firm as wheat or be blown away by the PC winds like
so much chaff...
This issue is a polarizing effect. It is what is called sifting the wheat from
the Chaff. This whole thing is doing one really great thing and that is getting
the church's name out there. True there will be some people who will be sad,
angry and sometimes violent. Some of our own members may leave the church over
this issue. That is sad. But at the same time there are millions of people who
are hearing this controversy and it is the first time they have ever heard of
the church and it's teachings. There are many people out there who agree with
what the church has stood for and because of this they will seek out the church
because we have made such a stand. This story has gone all over the world and
has reached people in places where missionary efforts were ineffective.The
same thing happened while I was on my mission. The whole polygamy thing was big
in the news. I thought it would close doors, but it opened more doors than it
closed. The same thing will happen with this.
The LDS has brought this upon themselves. Cinemark Theaters, Outback
Steakhouse, Burger King ,PocoLoco, and other companies are being targeted by the
boycott. Here in Kansas City Missouri we have a very strong LGBT community with
three weekly papers. The boycott is going very well and picking up.
If they Gay Protestors really want to 'see' HATE tell them to LOOK IN THE
MIRROR! This has never been an anti-gay issue..it's a 'marriage' issue. Their
Civil Unions have every benefit afforded any marriage...they just want to be
validified with the name 'marriage'.Also, if they are so content to
boycott any person/business that supported Prop. 8...then turn around should be
fair play...Oh, but wait..that's descrimination!!! I personally am going to read
that list as closely as possible and give those businesses my total
support...even if they are in CAand urge all of my CA collegues to do the
Anonymous 8:14 a.m. Nov. 14, 2008 said, "Puzzling that you would expect anything
different when you deny people their equality and rights!"So
equality and rights gives you the right to threaten physical assault, emotional
assault (white power in the mail, a federal crime too), religious bigotry and
more. You may call it equality and rights but homosexuality is still
IMMORAL. We still love and care about you but it's that lifestyle that is
If I were a member of the LDS church, I would be proud to be the object of scorn
from the homosexual community. Onward Christian Soldiers.
The gay/lesbian community is trying to make themselves a strong voting bloc by
raising up new "converts" to their movement. Why do most gay people "find out"
they are gay when they are young...because they are impressionable. This is why
the gay community targets grade schools, universities and colleges. This was
quite apparent when I lived in Massachusetts. I have yet to read one headline
about gay pride day at the senior citizen center. The more converts they can
get, the stronger voting bloc they are, the more political power on society they
Persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may
defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till
it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and
sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the
Great Jehovah shall say the work is done
Remember Whose battle this is and by Whose principles we have agreed to
fight."And every nation which shall war against thee, O house of
Israel, shall be turned one against another . . . [and] the time cometh
speedily that Satan shall have no more power over the hearts of the children of
men . . ." Read the whole thing in 1 Nephi 22.See also 3 Nephi 20,
particularly the phrase: "And behold, I am he who doeth it." We we
only jeopardize what we care most about by accusing without evidence, getting
fed up, or using the enemy's tactics in any way, and they are many. Some gays
hate the Church, some don't. Some evangelicals hate it, some don't. Some
politicians and their followers hate it, some don't. Let's focus not on people
or groups but on actions-- especially our own. Support the good not only in
precept (thanks, Prop8 supporters) but in manner, tone and conduct. Then the
victory will be Lord's victory, by His rules and in His due time. It may
include many whom we thought it might not. Let's behave in such a way that it
will include us.
Since when are traditional values extreme?? Traditional values are the anchor of
society. It's the world's values that are extreme and they change with the wind.
I agree with 'ohmygoodness'. We don't need terrorists or toher countries.
we're going to destroy ourselves & our neighbors with all the hate. Can't we
just all get along? What happened to love thy neighbor? Black, white, gay,
straight, catholic, mormon? There is too much hate in the world
you are falling into the trap of making blanket statements about 10s of 1000's
of people by the actions of a few. You shouldn't judge a group of people
by the actions a few bad apples. I won't judge Mormons by the comments I
read on the Deseret News forums, because if I did I would be a real hater. I
judge people as individuals and by their individual actions.
I wonder what type of protest would happen if you took peoples guns away. If you
take a right away they people protest. Yes the CA constitution before prop 8
gave them the right so yes their right was taken away. Whether right or wrong,
you supported the taking away of rights. Plain and simple.As for
respecting traditional marriage--70% end in divorce. Nobody respects marriage. I
guess polygamy was respecting marriage as well. Why don't we spend time and
money on preventing divorce. Such hypocritics.
Isn't saying Gay Lesbian, as in GLBT, redundant? Maybe I need clarification on
The best thing we can do is continue to live our lives in a productive, happy,
law-abiding way as we have, regardless of the angry voices that condemn us. Let
us be loving and courteous to all, remembering we are God's children. Some may
hate us, but at the top of the list of all beatitudes is found: "Blessed are
the peacemakers." I hope all who live as LDS can be termed as peacemakers.
I am not surprised at this news. And I would not be surprised if the president
of the LDS church has gotten many death threats over this. What these people do
is hateful and I have the freedom of speech (at least for now) to say so.
Political correctness (which is on the side of Prop8 protestors) can't silence
me. I'm sure that calling what they do as hateful will not silence them. They
are tenacious with a capital "T" and they won't rest until the ACLU helps them
get their way.
I agree with you 100 percent! Only good can come from this, just have to have
Boycotting and picketing are one thing, but when you said "the LDS has brought
this upon themselves" you weren't seriously condoning illegal hacking and
vandalism, were you?
Equating Gay rights to the civil rights movement and using Rosa Parks as an
example is not only a giant stretch but is insulting to the black community and
the injustices they faced.In no way, shape, or form can any gay man
or woman say they are discriminated against in any way that can be comparable.
In fact the vast majority of Americans want to accommidate gays as much as
possible. However, with anyone and anything, the line has to be drawn
somewhere. There has to be boundaries, that is a key component to any successful
society. Marriage, as a government endorsed institution, is seen as bettering
society in that it promotes societies healthy growth. If there were no benefits
to society there would be no reason to endorse it or to set guidelines for
it. No civil right is being violated with the passing of prop 8.
Any person can get married in California (that is their equal right), but only
under the provided definition of marriage. I'm sorry that it doesn't work out
for their chosen lifestyle.
The gay community wants support, so what do they do? Put up gay porn. What a way
to win supporters!
In addition to our stated rules, any comments containing threats or references
to violence of any kind will not be posted. If the trend continues, all comments
will be barred from this story.
Practice What GOD Preaches wrote: "What part of Leviticus 18:22 don't you
understand?! And after reading that try Lev. 20:30, or maybe Gen. 19:1-11, or
why not Rom 1:27, and possibly Jude 1:7 too. ANY church that performs or
approves same-sex marriage CLEARLY hasn't read their Bible."Lev.
20:30 should be Lev. 20:13 and thank you for the references. They are very
clear and plain. I think more GL supporters should read them and understand
that this lifestyle is not acceptable to God and is not appropriate for a
Christian to support or live. Any Christian church that performs same-sex
marriages and/or supports this lifestyle isn't Christian. Again, thanks.
good for you Richard, let me know how that works out for you.
Hey no skin off my nose. I've always boycotted all the gay establishments my
entire life. But I know your little boycott won't last forever. There's no way
you'll be able to hold out for long when you start craving those Burger King
Triple Whoppers with cheese or a Double Croissonwich (a favorite of the gay
community). You know you want one. You're getting
weaker...weaker...cravings...too strong...can't...hold out...much longer.......
Why do gays seem to oppose the democratic process? Prop 8 was submitted before
the California public and the majority voted FOR it, so it passed into law. This
is how it works. Why picket and target the LDS church when it was the majority
of CALIFORNIANS who voted for it? This is how democracy works, the majority
decides and in this case they did.
It's going to be a bumpy road from here to eternity!
Hang on tight! It's going to be a bumpy road from here to Eternity!
Well, Crazy, since according to you "Nobody respects marriage" why does anyone
care what the definition of marriage is?Do your research and you will see
that, at least the LDS Church, spends significant time and money on trying to
prevent divorce. In the future you may want to think about educating
yourself on the issues before boldly diving into a forum with faulty arguments
that lead to false conclusions.
ALL religious websites, no matter what their denomination or the message they
have, receive hate email. (You should read some of things written by so called
"Christians" and sent to ReligiousTolerance - which is a Christian site.)Posting pornographic materials, however, totally uncalled for. (May I
suggest a better security system?)
Umm - "gay bashing" does not mean what you use it to mean."Gay
bashing" means attacking - verbally, physically, spiritually, etc. - gays.What you are talking about is either "bashing by gays" or "Mormon
bashing."None of the above should be acceptable.
"Gay" can refer to either a man who likes men or a woman who likes women. It is
often distinguished by using the term "gay man." "Lesbian" refers only to a
woman who likes women. When the two terms are used together - as in Gay,
Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender - "Gay" is taken to refer to men and "Lesbian" is
taken to refer to women. If the term "Gay" is used by itself, it is meant to
refer to both men and women.Hope this clarifies things a little.
If you were against Prop 8, please ask your fellow supporters to stop these
activities and abide by the law.
Lionheart | 9:24 a.m. Nov. 14, 2008 If I were a member of the LDS church,
I would be proud to be the object of scorn from the homosexual community. Onward
Christian Soldiers.Very funny Lionheart. That's what I think. I'm
proud to be the object of scorn on this unhappy community or eco-terrorists and
moral bigots.Listen, if I viewed child porn and thought it
acceptable, I can put into the minds of others that it's okay until 10 years
down the road some judge declares child pornography as acceptable. It's not
that different folks, we need to love those who've made wrong choices, but we
don't teach our children that they SHOULD make those choices.
I just hope that we in the LDS community can reach and maintain a high road
rather than do the easy thing and return eye for eye and bash for bash.
By their fruits ye shall know them....
Seriously? Does the gay community really think they can do anything to the
Mormons that hasn't already been done over the past 150 years? It's almost like
a 3-year old throwing a tantrum because they have to go to bed. So, get all
your 3-year old friends together and take all the reason and logic out of your
argument and just make it about hate and anger. Why do you feel this way?
Because you are acting in contrary to laws that have governed the universe since
it's creation. So, to the 3-6% of you who think your temper tantrum has even
been given an afterthought you are wrong. I now look upon your position with
even less credibility than before. So, good luck with the hate and anger, I'll
stay posted. And in 2 months when the only press your getting is a Jay Leno
joke remember you could actually be making a difference in society. Become a
gym teacher, design some clothes, decorate a room, host a talk show. Just try
and contribute to the human race, and make sure if you do a parade to pick up
WHAT is the F.B.I DOING about all the HATE towards our members.
Would someone please reference the part of the Constitution that guarantees
someone the right to marry whomever they wish? I didn't learn about that one in
school, but somehow Anonymous thinks that someone's rights and equality are
being stomped on.This is a democracy and it has spoken. It may
change, but for now the voice of the people (they are the ones who voted after
all) has been heard.
I am very sorry that people would attack in such crude ways. That said, actions
have consequences and going to war over the simple of right to marry and honor a
relation between two people is going to have a response. The LDS church spent
millions of dollars and campaigned actively to pass prop 8. It did everything
it could influence the vote. It must not surprised by the response.Meridian is a very right wing, Mormon site. It has every right to be what it
is, but it too must not be surprised when people strongly disagree with it.Mormons are always surprised when they are not viewed as benvolent, kind,
upstanding folk.It will take years to repair the view that the LDS church
is bigoted and discriminating. This is the same thing we saw in the 60's and
much of the rhetoric on both sides resembles the fight against denying the
priesthood to black men.Both sides need to pray for each other.
Are you aware that tomorrow is National God Out Day. Prop. 8 is now being used
by athests and others as another reason to beat up on Christians. Because we
voiced our opinion and exercised our rights as citizens. Because we objected to
the Government sticking its nose into what is basically Church business. With
judges making law from the bench, we have lost the will of the people. Here in
California we had 4 judges make law from the bench based on nothing. Prop. 8
was the People of California stating their will again. There is no base for the
judges to over turn Prop. 22. The passage of Prop. 8 is a statement of the
People's Will. The passage of Prop. 8 is protection for Churchs who do not want
to preform same sex marriages. If Prop. 8 had failed anyone who doesn't want to
do business with a gay couple would be forced to. People all over the U.S. are
being forced to act against their beliefs. We as Christians are losing our
rights of association.
Filth is going to make Christians 'bend the rules' for people acting hatefully
and sinfully - Now I get it!
It's unfortunate that the horrible behavior of a few people (on both sides of
this issue) is being portrayed as the "entire" group. There are MANY people who
believe that you can feel strongly about an issue and have the constitutional
right to express those believes without disrespecting another. People should
remember that the horrible behavior of a small handful of people, does not
necessarily reflect the entire group.
If these acts were supported or condoned by the fringe extreme portion of the
gay community, then where are the reasonable/regular gay community leaders
calling out such hateful religiosly bigotry and calling for a return to
civility. Take it to the courts. Speak out but also speak out against hate
crime. Religious bigotry is the new racism in this country.... Conservatives vote but extreme liberals picket, vandalize, terrorize and put
bumper stickers on their cars...Where is all the picketing in the almost 40
states that have a similar item in their state laws which recognize marriage as
an institution between a man and a woman? Day by day the cause of homosexuality
loses credibility and advocates with its inability to speak out against true
hate and not the "perceived hate" that they claim because the majority pass a
law.I actually love gay people but they can't redefine the
dictionary. A horse is a horse no matter how much you want it to be a cow.
President Hinkley said at one of his last general conferences that persecution
"WILL INCREASE". A prophet of God has spoken it and it is coming to pass. I'm
afraid this is just the beginning. Persecution in time, may match or likely
surpass what the pioneers suffered.
what do you people expect when you butt into peoples lives and push your
rediculous religious agenda on others? perhaps if you would stop forcing your
beliefs on the rest of the population then you wouldn't have these problems.And Elaine W 12:10pm - Prop 8 wasn't the People of California stating
their will. It was the result of the mormon church sticking it's nose into
everyone else's business. If you people hadn't spent $20Mil on bogus ads full
of untruths the prop would never have passed. I thought lying was against your
religion, but I guess you all get to pick and choose. Sounds like you are all
FLDS....By the way - I'm not gay - but when my neighbor, an
inter-racial couple that couldn't have married 50 yrs ago, has a sign in their
yard for yes on 8 - then there is too much religion and not enough consideration
of the rights of others. I'm still suprised that people of color, who's rights
were denied for centuries, would vote based on their religion rather than their
At 9:30 am Georgia wrote:The gay/lesbian community is trying to make
themselves a strong voting bloc by raising up new "converts" to their movement.
Why do most gay people "find out" they are gay when they are young...because
they are impressionable. This is why the gay community targets grade schools,
universities and colleges. This was quite apparent when I lived in
Massachusetts. I have yet to read one headline about gay pride day at the senior
citizen center. The more converts they can get, the stronger voting bloc they
are, the more political power on society they can affect._________________________________________________She is absolutely
right! The #! contributor to the No on 8 campaign was the California Teachers
Association! They want to push gay and lesbian agenda. Poor children, they are
the casualties in this battle.The LDS church is right to defend the
interest of the children.
Lets clarify as this has been a myth that has been propagated by the anti-prop 8
crowd. The LDS Church spent exactly 0 dollars of the churches money on anything
related to the passage prop 8.People who happen to be members of the
LDS Church donated time and money to the cause of campaigning for, and the
passing of Prop 8. So did Catholics, Jews, blacks, Hispanic, etc, etc.
Just prior to the Election, the No on 8's website was also hacked and went down
for some time. Both sides are guilty, and Meridian Magazine has printed some
pretty anti-gay stuff over the years, so they are not completely above the fray
you just lied. i'm curious -how does it feel when a person full of religion
lies? millions of "church" dollars were spent to pass prop 8. it
may not have directly flown through the church, but your leadership told all
mormons to donate - so it's the same thing.you can twist it if you
feel better, but it's still a lie. hope you're proud of yourself.
The Gay community obviously doesn't have the same moral system and they do not
see their lives or the education of children about gay sex as immoral. They
view the right to marry as a civil right and many have the very narrow-minded
perspective that redefining marriage will not damage our society or infringe on
the rights of others. They do not see that already citizens are being legally
forced to condone homosexuality and there is a clash between religious and civil
liberties. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and parental rights are all
on the line here.I would hope that you could look at both sides of
I will eat at Outback Steakhouse for dinner.Thanks for your suggestion!
The ninth ammendment to the US Constitution states,"The enumeration in the
Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage
others retained by the people." Rights not specifically mentioned in the
Constitution which are still retained by the people are referred to as
unenumerated. One question seems to be is the right to marry whomever you want,
including someone of the same sex, one of these unenumerated rights. The second
question is does the state have to recognize every marriage that is performed
just because the pariticipants say it is a marriage. I believe the answer to
the first question is yes and the answer to the second is no. In other words
you have the right to participate in whatever ceremony you chose to create a
civil or spiritual contract between you, your partner and whatever God you
worship, but you do not have the right to force the state (i.e. the people) to
recognize that ceremony as a legitimate marriage.
the next time some disaster happens and Mormons hand out food, water, blankets,
hygiene & sanitation kits, or volunteer personal time to clean up damaged homes
and cities do you think they ask a persons sexual orientation before providing
those things? NO!if, due to a disaster, a homosexual found
themselves in need of food, water, blankets, hygiene & sanitation kits or
needing help to clean up damaged hones and cities do you think they'll refuse
that aid because it came from Mormons? Hmmmm, that will be interesting to see.
@ Susie Q:The difference in picketing is the "when" factor. Do you
see John McCain on the street corner holding a McCain-Palin sign still? How
bout any commercials? The difference is are you doing it before or after the
election?Hold your signs, get excited and voice your opinion on Nov.
4th, after that, live with the results and fight the next time it comes up
If you have to get a license for it, then it is not a right. If you have to get
a license for it, then the government has asserted the power to regulate.
Marriage is not a right. It is regulated. The Edmunds-Tucker act, as upheld by
the US Supreme Court, affirms that the government may determine which types of
marriages are acceptable. This issue was over in the late 1800s folks.
I couldn't agree with you more. I am not saying it is the LGBT community doing
it, but who else is it, it is either the community or people who believe in
same-sex marriage and disagree with Prop. 8. I just think it is too bad that
all this has to happen. Whether Mormon, Catholic, or whatever religion, we have
the right to push for something we believe in and we did, we won fair and
square, we won the votes, so therefore there is no more to be discussed or
It's interesting that people of other races are never racist, right? only white
people. It's interesting that hate crimes are only committed by white, straight
people, and that anyone else could never be the instigator of a hate crime. wow,
when did we give up all of our rights??? who is it that haas painted us into a
well said.unfortunately, the issue isn't "marriage". The issue is
having the same rights as other couples. I've heard it said that civil unions
provide the same rights to a couple as marriage does. That's totally untrue.
If it were true, none of this would be an issue. Marriage is just a word, just
like civil union is just a word. Gays could care less what you call it, as long
as they are treated just like any other "joined" couple.btw - I'm
Seems to me those protesting the LDS Church for spending money to support Prop 8
are hypocrites. Obama out spent McCain by one of the largest (if not THE
largest margin) margins in campaign history. I wanted McCain so now should I
seek revenge on the people and organizations that supported Obama? The very
people who are complaing that Mormons bought Prop 8 bought the Presidential
election for Obama. When will we wake up and start treating each other with
respect. You leave our 6000 year old definition alone, and we will not complain
that unatural acts are being performed in the privacy of your own bedrooms. We
all have an axe to grind. Lets move on.
It sounds like you are saying religious people do not have the right to vote. If
it is just about the fund raising, the no on prop-8 side raised a lot more
money. If it is about church's not involving themselves in moral issues without
fear of losing tax-exempt status, then the churches who came out against prop-8
must also lose theirs.Religious people have a right to vote and to
be a part of the campaigning process. Many Mormons were against prop-8 and there
was no backlash whatsoever. Being encouraged to help is different than force.
Why are you, Mormons, so intolerant? Intolerant? Since when did it become a
matter of intolerance for an individual to want to retain their personal belief
of what marriage is? When did it become so unpopular to want to hold onto
"traditional" values and when did "traditional" values start leaving such a bad
taste in people's mouths? Is progress in society today based on how much we are
willing to give up to make everyone feel good about themselves?re:
realitycheckYou find it hard to believe that your interracial couple
neighbors voted based on their religious beliefs instead of their experience.
You ever stop to think that maybe it was because of their religious beliefs that
they were able to get through those experiences?
I'm getting questions from co workers at work about LDS Beliefs and I'm
referring them to the missionaries in my stake. What a great missionary tool...
Ernie, How do you think your wife would feel about going back to
"traditional marriage"? An arrangement where she had no say, was basically
purchased from her father and her ownership was transferred to her new husband.
That is the kind of marriage that has traditionally been on earth.
You want traditional marriage? You better now stop with Prop 8.
I always wondered what it would be like to attend church with police protection.
Well, I just found out. It is very eerie....... What a world we live
Exactly! The constitution gives all people rights and that's what
this is simply all about. I see people treat the gays badly, but give lip
service to straight couples that can't even raise their kids properly. I've seen
a high percentage of gays treat their kids and raise them up far better than
many straight couples do. Like Jesus said in the scriptures, judge
not less ye be judged. Prop 8 simply would have ensured that "couples" be given
the same rights as a union. And remember only a very small small percentage of
such unions would comprise of such couples less than 1%. Another
thing Jesus said was love one another and he showed that to everyone, and I mean
EVERYONE! We can learn from that and be more tolerant and realize that it's
important to love than to hate and judge. Looks like those so called righteous
right wing religion zealots think they have it all perfectly. geeez?? They act
just like the Pharisees of whom Jesus criticized the most for being so
narrow-minded and lacking in love. I am an active LDS by the
way...and would have voted NO to Prop 8.
I Like the Controversy!! Call me crazy if you will, but We in the LDS Church
can't BUY this kind of press. We had it in the late 70's & 80's with the denial
of the ERA Amendment, and we had it here in So Cal with a libel lawsuit against
the Church that was laughed out of court, If you look at the Data of CONVERT
BAPTISMS...The Church baptised MORE in times of Controversy than in supposed
"peaceful times".PROTEST ALL YOU WANT...People will Investigate,
Feel the Spirit and will COME UNTO CHRIST!!Thanks GLBT Peeps!! The
Work of God will GO FORTH
Victor Randazzo | 11:48 a.m. Nov. 14, 2008 WHAT is the F.B.I DOING about
all the HATE towards our members. What is the FBI DOING
about all the HATE that Mormons exhibit toward others?
gays have the right to do exactly whatever they want. can they not live
together and have all the rights of a heterosexual couple? what am I missing, do
I and my wife have some extra special rights denied to them? we live together,
we love each other.. marriage is not a "right" it is a ceremony.
religious or not.why do they feel like they are being denied a right? nope. what they want is acceptance and validation. racism cannot be
compared with this, if someone is denied the right to go to school, or take
public transportation, that is denying a right.but you cannot demand a
ceremony as a right, thats like saying I am being discrimated against because I
cannot go to graduation at the Harvard law school and get handed a JD degree.
why are they leaving me out, I feel like I am being discriminated against, am I
not worthy of that right? well harvard has rules for who gets to graduate, it
is defined by Harvard. same with marriage, it is defined now in CA and 40 other
The no voters have clout. They get a lot of the liberal media, entertainers
like Whoopie, Ellen D., RoseAnn, governator, Brad Pitt, Oprah, etc. etc, etc. to
back them up. Seems to me it would be wise to turn off the TV., not go to the
movies of these people, After all, boycotting can go two ways. I am so tired
of being bombarded by these people. I'm just a poor sap who thought that voting
was important. Now I know that all you need is a big mouth and a microphone.
How sad is that? The media needs to stop making our choices for us. The vote
was real, they just need to accept it.
YES!!!! YOUR RIGHT! Jesus did love everyone - the sinner and the righteous - He
also gave commandments and then said - If you love me keep my commandments! He
also said "Come follow me". Have you read the OT lately? He also gave us a
Prophet and asked us to follow (sustain) him. Love is importart but it dosen't
mean that we have to allow others to walk alll over us - or what we hold sacred
or the right to raise our family in God's way! The church has always said that
the Family (traditional families as is talked about in the Proclamition of the
Family) is the greatest unit on the face of the earth -I have no doubt that He
would want us to uphold His views of the Family!
Just means the church is true. If it wasn't, it wouldn't matter!
Wicked men rules when good men DO NOTHINGThank you for voting
yes on propotion 8
The No-side played the game and it lost even with all the talent of Hollywood,
Silicon Valley, the Media, and the politicians.
Terrorism and Gay Rights Activists Part 1Terrorism is a criminal act that
influences an audience beyond the immediate victim. The strategy of terrorists
is to commit acts of violence that draw the attention of the local populace, the
government, and the world to their cause. Terrorists plan their attack to obtain
the greatest publicity, choosing targets that symbolize what they oppose. The
effectiveness of the terrorist act lies not in the act itself, but in the
publics or governments reaction to the act.
The current reaction of those who opposed Prop 8 is showing what true bigotry is
all about. To do criminal actions because the outcome of a vote wasn't the
result you wanted is wrong. This isn't helping anyone's cause. It is very bad
representation for the majority who voted against Prop 8. If you want to make
progress, you need to play nice in the sandbox. I have no problem with
encouraging others to vote for what they believe in, but the post election
actions are disturbing.
Yes, Lionheart, you are very right! No good idea goes unapposed. Like Paul, we
should count our tribulations small. The prophets and apostles of old suffered
mocking. Are we better than they?
Let's support those business targeted by the activists. Here are some facts:The family is the basic unit of society.Children are society's
future.No one has a "right" to be married.When rights for same-sex
couples are expanded, freedom of speech and religion are threatened through
coercion.The Netherlands, the first country to legalize same-sex marriage,
has already seen an explosion in the illegitimacy rate and a decline in the
number of couples getting married. When legalized, more children will be
taught against their parents wishes, that homosexuality is healthy and normal.
In Massachusetts, homosexuality is taught as part of a diversity program
and parents do not have the right to opt out their children.Catholic
Charities, dropped their adoption program because they do not let same-sex
couples adopt and did not want to face lawsuits.A photographer in New
Mexico was fined for declining to photograph a lesbian "commitment ceremony"
because it violated her religious beliefs.Where same-sex marriage is
legalized, promoting motherhood and fatherhood could legally be considered
discriminatory. Promiscuity in marriage will become more generally
accepted. The average same-sex relationship is 3 years. Only 3% of American's
are homosexual. Let's stand together to protect the family.
As unfortunate as many of the gay and lesbians have been reacting to the passage
of Prop. 8, I feel sure that this will end in being an overall positive
experience for the Church's missionary efforts. Provided that we, as members,
continue to treat others with respect and civility even if it is not
reciprocated. Already the negative treatment of our Tempes and members by the
gay/lesbians have opened up positive dialog with my husband's co-workers. Many
non-members have witnessed the unfair attacks on us and have eome to our defense
and have pledged their unity with us. The Lord always knows how to turn
situations like these to His advantage. All is well!
I have always been of the mind to let others live the way they want. With all
the things going on with prop. 8 I have become a little more educated on this
issue and believe I can see things more clearly now.The gay community is
wrong. And their words and actions speak volumes on who they are. They claim
freethinking, tolerance and love. I guess that may be the case unless you
oppose their way of thinking. If prop. 8 would have failed would religious
people have acted in similar ways, using intimidation tactics to punish their
opponents? I think not.Thank you to the gay activist's. I can see things
much more clearly now.
It is a total shame on how the No on Prop 8 folks are reacting and dealing with
how the democratic process worked on 11-04-08. Gee, last time I checked the Bill
of Rights, it mentioned something about freedom of religion. God bless America!
I was hoping that this would open the door to family members marrying each other
-- brothers and sisters, mothers and sons, fathers and daughters, cousins, etc.
Shouldn't we have that right? Shouldn't we have the right to marry more than
one mammal, male or female, possibly a beloved pet so that we can transfer
wealth and avoid estate taxes? Or what about marrying someone under the age of
12? How about children's right to marry? There are folks that think they
should have these choices sanctioned by the state, but marriage is regulated for
I haven't read every comment, but I think we are missing a huge point of
interest. Having read about Connecticut and how they can teach the children that
gay, lesbian "marriage" is a viable alternative to traditional marriage, I'm
concerned that that is one of the main sticking points involved in Prop 8.
Wouldn't this dictate that that lifestyle be taught to our children even if
parents opposed it? Let the homosexuals be a union, but don't let them stuff it
down our children's throats!
Not only is your bitterness showing, but your ignorance also.IF you
bother to check facts, you will find that other groups can be racist and hate
crimes have been committed against whites.As for what has painted
you into a corner - that would be your victim mentality and unwillingness to
address the real issues.
Been listening to the Book of Mormon alot. Please Remember what happens
eventually to those that forget the Lord and remember what you need to do each
day and never forget.
Why don't these "tolerant" (only if you agree the way they do) No of 8
protesters do it in South Central Los Angeles where the vast majority of
African-American live and voted? Because those who live in SCLA won't put up
which their shenanigans. The African-American took offend to the No on 8
protestors because the No on 8 were making it a civil rights issue and that
ticked off those who live not just in L.A. but throughout the state.No on
8 have lost a lot of supporters and have become vitriolic on how they have
reacted and protested those business owners who were Yes on 8 supporters. They
picket and use name calling to keep patrons away. Those employers even employ
gays and lesbians in those restaurants).The next time this proposition
appears and it will. There will be a lot video footage as to what is going to
happen if you dont support there position.Im a convert to the Church and I
couldnt be more humble on how the LDS people in LA have been let alone tolerant
and demonstrating a Christ-like approach to all this media attention.
Unfortunately the gays who are now so inappropriately protesting the democratic
process are just giving themselves, and other reasonable persons with their
choice of lifestyle, a terrible name.
To Anonymous of 11:56 a.m. Not only will you not find
marriage in the Constitution, but in Lawrence v. Texas (which thegays
applauded) the court went out of their way in overturning Bowers by affirming
that there isno fundamental right for gay marriage. Let me repeat for
those that may have missed that (hintfor the George court in California).
The U. S. Supreme Court said there is no fundamental rightfor gay
He knows the way! This is nothing new to the watchmen on the towers." Read what
Elder Maxwell said in 1979 at BYU, reprinted in the Ensign 1979 - "Make no
mistake about it, brothers and sisters, in the months and years ahead, events
are likely to require each member to decide whether or not he will follow the
First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two
opinions...This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a
society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being
ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets
of Jesus Christ!" Read the whole thing for yourself "A More Determined
Discipleship" at LDS.org And relax, God is in His heaven, He leads His Church
let us get out of his way let HIM be in control. All we have to do is follow the
prophet! I love that it is really THAT simple!
To NigelUK:Part 2I am not a spokesman for
Meridian, but I dont think they are surprised that some people disagreewith their viewpoint of the issues. However, disagreement is one thing,
having your companyhacked into and having its home page turned into a gay
porn site is something else, unless youthink disagreement is morally
equivalent to breaking the law. There are not enough words left to
even try to take on the discrimination charge but will have toleave that
for another post. See realitycheck below.Both sides praying for
each other would be a good idea. It is heartening to know that the No sidebelieves in God and prayer. From the tone of their posts such sentiments
could easily be missed.
To realitycheck:Yea, that pesky Prop 8 coalition is forcing
their beliefs on all us of having marriage mean it isbetween a man and a
woman. What radicals! Imagine a 52.5% of the vote versus 47.5%. Howdare
the people speak up against a one judge swing vote 4-3. Dont they know that
judges are thewisest persons in the whole wide world? Who are these
people of California to think anyone ofthem has more intelligence and
wisdom than a judge? (Just dont ask his wife.)As far as your
inter-racial neighbor couple goes maybe they know that your argument ofcomparing sexual behavior is different from race with which they were born.
You wont find anygays fighting for the right to vote, nor for the right to
go to school, get a job or find housing asblacks once did.
To realitycheckPart 2By the way since when
couldnt churches talk about marriage to their congregations. Last time Iattended it seemed like marriage is a doctrine that can be discussed. Fact -
the Mormon churchdidnt cast one vote. If you read the Dan Walters
11/11/08 column in the Sacramento Bee youwill learn it was the surge for
Obama that sealed Prop 8's victory. He said normally 13% of thevote is
African-American in California. This time it was 18% due to a big Obama turnout
thatresulted in 500,000 more votes. 70% of those votes voted yes on 8.
To re Craig:The issue is marriage. Prop 8 amends the
California State Constitution to say that, Onlymarriage between a man and
a woman is valid or recognized in California. Californians havedomestic
partnerships in the California Family Code giving them all the rights of
marriage. Thefact that gays feel treated different will never go away by
laws, whether constitutional or statute. However, they can have all the
same rights even if their unions have different names.
To Beatrice:What is the FBI DOING about all the HATE that
Mormons exhibit toward others? Would thatmean voting with millions of
other Californians of all faiths? Is that what you call hate? Maybeyou
can inform us of the vandalism done to gay bars, or the white powdery substances
mailed togays, or the Yes on 8 protesters with their signs that said Gays
go to hell, Gay scum. Oh,wait, there werent any. It was the No on 8
crowd that had those signs but used the wordMormon instead of gay. Well
be waiting for your evidence of Mormon hate for others, butwont be holding
our collective breath.
This issue is becoming very difficult for me. I love and trust the prophet, and
my own heart that tells me supporting prop. 8 is right. But I have a very close
friend (my oldest friend, even). He would never behave or condone the behavior
of the protestors. He is gay, and has adopted two children. I think he's a
wonderful father, a great friend, and a good person. I had the unfortunate
displeasure of having to discuss my views on his community and desire to be
married to another man some day, with him last night. Our friendship is still in
tact, but I don't feel comfortable even talking about it. I don't want to make
my friend feel I'm judging him less than me. It's so painful. He says he's happy
with "who he is". How do we humbly help beautiful people see our views on this
issues? What words to us?
I think we should be cautious about laying the blame on the Proposition 8
opponents. Most of them have come across as sincere and passionate, but not in
any way supportive of oppressive or intimidating tactics. I suspect that these
issues are arising from long-term enemies of the Church who see this as an
opportunity to spread hate, and in doing so are casting a shadow on the many
good and honest people who opposed Proposition 8. Charging this to the No on 8
campaign simply plays into their hands.
I have commented several times, but even though they show accepted, they never
appear in the comments even though they have all conformed to your rules.Can you please reply to let me know why.
Stopping same-sex "marriage" is not (or should not be) an issue of hate toward
anyone who supports it or toward anyone who engages in homosexual conduct.
Support of the principles of marriage is not an emotion. Someone who stands up
for correct principles still can and should love people who support same-sex
"marriage" and love people who engage in immoral behavior.
I think the pro-gay marriage movement is being underwritten by divorce
attorneys. If gay marriage becomes legal everywhere, it will take an army of
attorneys to handle the divorces 6 months down the road.
All of these people that are so upset over Prop 8 are many of the same ones that
were crying with joy and rapture when Barack Obama was elected. Obama has
stated unequivically on many occasions that he is opposed to gay marriage.
Maybe they should picket him instead. After all, he will be the most powerful
person in the world in about 8 weeks.
I think they're just having fun deleting everyone's perfectly valid comments
I can't wait to read the talk. Thanks.
I know that at the head of our Church is a Prophet of God, who speaks for God.
God does not make mistakes and neither do our Church Leaders. We need to really
pray and refrain from lashing out at others, our local law enforcements are
there to keep the peace, let them do their job. Those that are breaking laws by
vandalism will be brought to justice. Hopefully those that are involved in
violent protests and intimidation will remember that our government takes
domestic terrorism very seriously. All is well, our journey is not through.
Thank you Richard Adams @9:22- Now I know which businesses I will support even
Obama has also unequivocally stated that he is against Proposition 8.
Let's see now: hacking, disturbing the peace, verbal abuse, etc. Sounds like
these are some "nice, calm" people. I'm not a member of the LDS church, but I
hope they'll keep fighting on and never back down.
Huhhhhh???? Please explain what HATE the Mormons exhibit towards others? The
LDS church is the first organization to send food, clothing & aid to disaster
areas all over the WORLD! They are prepared to help the minute there is a
disaster, just ask the Red Cross. Yep, that shows real hatrid towards others
doesn't it. Too bad you don't know more about the LDS church - Hey, I know two
young men who would love to teach you more about what we believe.........
We need to put an END to this NOW!!I am sick and tired that we (LDS Members)
have to always turn around and give the other cheek!!!!We need to STAND UP, GET
UP and fight for OUR RIGHTS!
Wow. I an grateful that the Church took a stand on this.Paul said
he gloried in his sufferings that he suffered for Christ, and I feel to rejoice
with him.God bless all who stand up for what is right and are
persecuted and scorned for it!
To: Love gays too. Try being the Mom of a daughter, raised in the church,
married(I'm Canadian) to her lesbian lover. I love my daughter, love her mate,
but cannot condone their relationship. If one reads the Bible with an open mind,
they will understand that Heavenly Father condemms ALL sexual activities outside
marriage, by His definition, between a man and a woman. I don't hate gays, but
do hate the sexual garbage that we are being inundated with. I work in a public
serving job. Many times I can feel the love that the Lord has for his children,
just by being in their presence. How can I do any less than the Lord, I would be
a hippocrit.I am dismayed by the public hatred and lack of understanding
expressed by those who feel that we must agree with their ideas or we hate them.
Perhaps the shoe needs to be put on the other foot. They don't agree with
us...hummm Hate the sin, love the sinner. Living with that motto would bring a
lot of peace into the world.
No matter what is going on at this time, we know who is at the bottom of it and
it is NOT The Lord.The old addage of "sticks and stones may break my
bones, but words will never harm me" is still true.Why do we need to do
anything to people who don't know any better? Of course if it will make anyone
happier, go ahead. As for me, I know what is right and what is wrong as many of
us do.This too shall pass. Heavenly Father is still in charge and we are
all just renting space here on earth. Keep the faith and follow the
Prophet and all will be well!
We must stay strong and stand together. Hate the sin, love the sinner. A choice of behavior" does not equal a "right". That would be like
saying people who commit adultery deserve special rights and privileges because
they choose to engage in a certain behavior.
YES!! Thank you Richard Adams for all the businesses that supported YES on 8!!!
I will now give my loyal best to support them! And you all can go to
ElectionTrack.com and see who supported NO on 8! And I agree with one post that
we should turn off the TV's and start BOYCOTTING HOLLYWEIRD! As for the
governator of Cali, he was given a large amount of money by the RINOs, The Log
Cabin Republicans, the gay politicians. Just remember when we BOYCOTT these
people, we don't give monies to their movements, the liberal agenda.
I voted by early ballot in AZ before moving to Utah just before the election. I
voted YES on prop 102 in that state. I had already made up my mind about this
issue BEFORE I was encouraged to help get the prop passed. However, I did not
actively participate in the passage of the prop except to vote for it. Just
because the LDS church encourages its members to do something doesn't mean we
automatically do it. 1 pm poster to Nigel said "but your leadership told all
mormons to donate - so it's the same thing." I did not donate either time or
money to the campaign, however, I did let friends and family in AZ and CA know
that I was voting for the prop and that I hoped they would, too. All donations
of money and time by members was voluntary and I can tell you no one will be
asked what they did or how they voted. Following church leaders is a matter of
faith and conscienious. We do it because it is the right thing to do. In this
case, I had neither the spare cash or time to do more than I did.
said: "The Edmunds-Tucker act, as upheld by the US Supreme Court, affirms that
the government may determine which types of marriages are acceptable. This issue
was over in the late 1800s folks. "I'm glad someone brought this up.
Didn't the Supreme Court (the court of last resort) define marriage when it
upheld the anti-bigamy statute of Edmonds-Tucker? Why are we having to make this
part of each individual state constitution? Love to hear from the lawyers out
there. Oh, one more question: what would it take to repeal the ammendment to
the CA constitution? Is it just a simple majority again, or a different type of
The supporters of Prop 8 acted in a group-up responsible way (if they hadn't,
the media would have been all over it). Now that Prop 8 has been passed, we see
how horrible the supporters of same-sex marriage can be. Intolerance and hate
has overflowed from them. I don't see or hear anyone on the pro-gay-marriage
side decrying the terrible actions being carried out by their allies and
comrades. The pro-gay-marriage folks lost, and they are acting like babies about
it.Marriage and same-sex just makes no sense. It would be like
feminists demanding that they be allowed to have fatherhood. It's a crazy idea.
I'm not associated to the LDS church, but I do admire their family values and
standing strongly on not according acts of abomination to become part of
government. The Bible denounces such acts and no less than 7 times in the new
testament. I'm not even of a religious nature and make no claims to such, yet I
can figure out right from wrong when it comes to homosexual acts. I certainly
don't want this taught as a norm in schools and such. My hat is off
to the LDS church for their efforts. In California the homosexual individuals
already have laws in place for their desire to "domestic partner" with one
another. I see no need for them to attack the sanctity of marriage. In fact, to
view this from a religious history would easily align such an attack with an
undergrowth of evil pushing it. How many times throughout history have
Christians been persecuted in every way imaginable? Is this yet another chapter
in that history unfolding?Pray for the homosexual mind to receive God's
help in overcoming their affliction. Pray they remove the chains of their ways.
Everyone has a right to their opinion, but its totally unfair of those who were
against Prop 8 to come to places of worship ( particularly LDS) and vandalize
and have rallies outside those places. The LDS church is not the only church or
organization which cares about traditional marriage values. We are but 1 of many
and the majority voted Yes. Furthermore, we are not going to gay bars or clubs
or organizations and breaking their windows, sending envelopes with powder to
them and other things. We are not for what they want but we dont act like
hooligans. What would Jesus do? 1) he would of voted yes also 2) he would not
use violence to make his point. It wont make people accept people of that
lifestyle sooner, they will be seen as not only against what we are for, but
thugs and vandals and very poor sports also.
I think LGBT community involved here are just looking for an easy target. So
many do not realize that Mormons make up 770,000 to 800,000 of the 38 million
people living in California and of those 800,000 people, maybe half of them
would be voting age. And even though Latter-day Saints tends to have a higher
turn-out to the polls than the average Americans, I seriously doubt they had
100% turn-out. And some will still not vote with the rest.Sorry, to
blame this on the Mormon Church seems to be just too convenient (at the very
If the proposition passed, then the constitution of California is changed by a
voice of the people, right?How then can the judges in California act
contrary to their own constitution?I too am glad it passed. Any future
requests for support for similar threats to true happiness will see me stand
firm and steadfast in defense of truth and life.
Far from showing that Californias Supreme Court was wrong to extend the right of
marriage to gay people, the passage of Proposition 8 is a reminder of the
crucial role that the courts play in protecting vulnerable groups from unfair
treatment. Mormons should remember this, since you yourselves are vulnerable.
Do gays really push for equal rights for all or do they simply want more rights
for themselves? One of the big pushes against Prop. 8 before the election was
for "equal rights," claiming Prop. 8 discriminates against gays. However, are
gays also pushing for the rights of a brother to marry his sister, for a human
to marry an animal or for a man or woman to have multiple spouses? All I see and
hear is the push for the right for gays to marry each other. The other
relationships are forbidden by law because of societal beliefs, not to mention
Christian beliefs, upon which this nation and its constitution were formed. In addition, a straight couple in California cannot enter into a
domestic partnership. I don't hear the gay community arguing for that allowance
either. Where the line should be drawn for "equal" rights in forming marital
relationships is being protested and argued. However, the gay community is
merely focusing on getting only itself across the line of acceptance while
leaving others behind. To me, they simply want preferential treatment. What do
you think? Remember; Romans, Chapter 1
"It's interesting that people of other races are never racist, right? only white
people. It's interesting that hate crimes are only committed by white, straight
people, and that anyone else could never be the instigator of a hate crime."Ellen: That's not true. I'm not sure where you are getting your
information. I am a third year law student and have studied some
things (though not everything) about hate crimes. The vast majority of hate
crime legislation states that hate crimes can be committed against any group by
on the basis of certain characteristics (typically race, but often also includes
religion, sexual orientation and gender, among others). Indeed, minorities have
been prosecuted for hate crimes against other minorities, and also against
whites. Further, most hate crimes are not separate crimes, but rather
enhancements (that create longer sentences) for existing crimes (so a murder
would have a longer sentence if committed on the basis of one of the above
categories). Basically, the idea is that a hate crime is not directed simply
against one person, but rather is intended to target and intimidate the victim's
Wrong, Brother S: Straight people ARE allowed to enter into domestic
partnerships in California if they qualify under the statute.And,
how is equal treatment--wanting gay couples treated the same as heterosexual
couples UNDER THE LAW--preferrential?
you must not know any gay people, 'cause the gay people i know care about other
people too, not just about themselves. they've been abused and treated like
second-class citizens or worse for so long they have more compassion than most
straight people i know.maybe you should befriend more gay
Total absence of freedom takes place in a totalitarian system. Total absence of
restraint takes place in a society dominated by anarchy and chaos. Once you
take away the definition of mariage as the union of one man to one woman,
anything goes, and soon the world will be peopled with lonely individuals who
will only have sex as a solution to feel bonded to someone or something else.The same applies to abortion. First, women were allowed to abort; next,
the time allowed to have an abortion was extended; now, we are talking about
whether it is OK for a mother to abort a six-month old, who would otherwise be
viable with the help of modern medicine...
For those who believe there is a GOD who has given rules, commandments etc. we
have a choice to follow HIS teaching or turn against them. Those in society who
say we must comprimise and get along do not understand that if HE does exist and
if we do believe or know HE does, that they are asking us to tell our GOD that
he is wrong and that HE must change HIS rules. If that is the case then HE is
not GOD but a mans needs to worship some higher being real or not. They are are
asking us to choose betwwen there concept of life and the one GOD has given us.
Whom do ye fear GOD or man, do not ask us to turn on our beliefs so you can live
your life without anyone saying yea or nay to it. We have a moral obligation to
our Creator to stand up for HIS teachings if we are to say we believe.