Comments about ‘Protests over Proposition 8 outcome getting personal’

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Published: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 12:08 a.m. MST

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Anonymous

I wonder if these kinds of boycotts were going on in the reverse if it wouldn't be more plastered all over the national media.

I am sorry that people from the lesbian and gay community have felt ridiculed for their sexual orientation over the years. I am also sorry for the LDS people who have always largely been misunderstood by the public. Hmmm, seems these two groups have a lot in common.

But the misunderstanding doesn't lie in people exercising their religious and social beliefs in an election through the democratic process, it is by those who are trying to vilify their opponents. There is no room for that on either side of the argument, and I hope that people can act mature and civil about this.

Carl

Perhaps we have a problem with semantics. One big problem is that churches, like the Catholic church sees marriage as a religious ritual, and has many rules regarding whom a person may marry, and whom they cannot...we have extended this belief to the civil sector, where ministers even act as agents of the state. I believe that the word "marriage" as is seen by some religious organizations should be redefined as a "religious" term, and then each denomination could use that term as it sees fit. All "marriages" then should be considered civil unions as being recognized by the state or government, with the same rights and privileges as our so-called marriage now enjoys. Civil Unions could then be universally recognized, "marriage" can retain its sacramentality, and everyone would be happy.

Fred

Some of you are understanding what is going on here, while others are still in the dark. Please read the comment from "To Tom." He clearly and correctly gives an accurate summary of this situation: Marriage is not a right! This is not about hate or limiting someone's civil rights. It's about creating a legal definition of the word marriage.

In principle, gay marriage is no different than polygamy or any other type of union, including marrying your car, pet, or lamp post. Before you know it, the Democrats socialized health care will be using our taxes to pay for tune-ups for sick cars, counseling for suicidal pets, and light bulb replacements for neighborhood lamp posts, all because we demanded the 'right' to marry whomever or whatever we want!

Thomas

Some people should be careful on inviting them to be targeted, you'd be surprised how many gay guys have a very discrete military backgroud that could target you from a very long distance in a blink of an eye. The american people pride themselves on the contstitution but we tend to ignore the part that separate church and state, why do personal religious beliefs have any bearing on laws being made in any state? What if some believe in a religion that accepts gay marriage? Where do their rights fall into this? Its bigotry and prejudice no matter how you paint it.

EJ

The above noted comments attributed to Elton John are spot on. The Gay community has moved the fight for equal rights to a battle that requires those rights be called marriage. I find it odd that those who take so much pride in being different are fighting and protesting to be the "same." If Gays truly want equal rights then fight for those rights not for a name.

Marriage is NOT a right

Even judges arent 100% certain that marriage is a right. Every single supreme court vote that has granted it was a 4-3 split. Marriage is a privilege.

Government borrowed the institution from religion (check your history) as the best means for insuring future citizenry. Therefore, marriage is, by its very nature a religious institution. So don't tell me that I can't vote my religious conscience.

Sam the Army man

I think those that are calling Mormon religion, bigotry. Should stop and take a look at them selves, when a group of people gather and starting mobs which then cause them destroy property or deface a church and to harass individuals. It throws a black mark the Gay people. The real bigots are those that are doing this. They act like spoiled Brats and are throwing a fit. This is immaturity and will not get you any were when you act like a two year old. So grow up, stop what you doing and follow the rules that were passed. If Prop 8 had failed do you think we Christians would take to the streets and start causing turmoil amongst the Gays. Would you like it? The good Lord does not like this and would not accept these actions. So respect this new ruling. Respect our right to vote the way we choose.

wow

If the religous community forced someone to resign because they supported gay causes; they would get labeled "nazis": well guess what.

I am homosexual and I am embarrassed by a gay community that has become the very thing it claims to despise.

I'm tired of this

Marriage is not a civil right - it is a choice. Being a certain race or gender - qualities that a person is born with and cannot change - is not a person's choice. Those rights need to be protected. But I'm tired of people saying that Prop 8 is taking away rights. I'm calling BS.

If you want to fight about taking away rights, why don't you let polygamy legal so all non-traditional families get to be legally married. Let's make incest legal. We have to define marriage and CA voters voted to define it as one man and one woman.

I know many hurt sob-story comments and retaliations are going to reply to this post. Go ahead... Be predictable: make my prediction true... I dare you to resist.

Eric Larsen

Re: Jayce Cox
Thank you for being open enough to use your name. While I disagree with the practice of homosexuality, I find it far too easy to hide behind pseudo-names while attacking the other side; again, thank you for being "adult" enough to stick your neck out there. I hope we can all be mature enough to speak openly, intelligently, and calmly about the subject at hand.

There are many on both sides of the argument feeling victimized by the recent debate on Proposition 8. I hope there can be mutual understanding on the issue.

This is a topic that LDS bishops will undoubtedly need to address, meaning they must understand how to approach the issue and help their members. There must be understanding on the part of LDS leaders.

On the other hand, there must be understanding from the LGBT community. I would hope that at least a few have researched why Mormons believe what they believe. Put in context of the Plan of Salvation, homosexuality appears to be a dead end.

I am concerned that donor lists on the internet will lead to individuals being targeted for what they have chosen to support (on both sides).

Craig in WA

Proposition 8 did nothing to alter people's liberties.

Proposition 8 simply defined a requirement for statutory marriage - that the relationship consist of a male and female. There is no hate, intolerance or bigotry in this definition.

The issue is that the state has an interest in male-female relationships that it does not have in same-sex relationships. Male-female relationships have the potential to perpetuate the species, and hence society and the state itself. Same sex marriages have no such potential and are therefore not due the same legal consideration.

Because of this it is entirely appropriate to create different legal structures for each different relationship. Marriage for male-female relationships, and civil permissions for same-sex relationships.

Nate

To "Truth about prop 8" @ 8:46.

You write, "Without Prop. 8 if the LDS or Catholic church refuse to marry people of the same sex same they could be subject to legal prosecution. The whole 1st ammendment to the constitution would be at stake. Ultimately the Constitution could "hang by a thread".

That is simply and totally not true and it is a paranoid scare tactic that some proponents of 8 shamefully used. Prosecuted? It would be a CRIME not to marry those of the same sex? This is ludicrous. I respect some thoughtful and honest reasons for people to come down on either side of this issue. But lies and paranoia like this should not be a part of this debate. It is just sad if this malarkey was the basis for anyone's vote on 8.

Roger Carrier

I have always been impressed with the Mormon concept of Free Agency. Dont take away a persons right to choose. If you dont believe in gay marriage, thats fine, but dont pass a law against it.

In an age of impermanent relationships, we should encourage people to make long-lasting legal commitments to one another. For that reason, I say that gay marriage will be good for America! (And on this subject, everyone should watch the Keith Olberman video on the internet, where he talks about love. Its powerful stuff.)

SoCal

If this proposition is overturned, it is time to march on Sacramento and demand the resignation of the Supreme Court justices. It is time to stand up to tyranny by the minority.

Churches and Taxes

If you're gonna strip the LDS church of its tax-exempt status, you should do the same for all churches....including the churches that opposed proposition 8.

Don't confuse the issue

Comparisons of the civil rights movement of the 60's and 70's to the current day gay rights movement simply do NOT hold water. Race is not a lifestyle choice, homosexuality is. I don't care whether or not you believe that you are born with homosexual tendencies, to live that lifestyle is a choice, plain and simple.

Good Thing We Voted

We voted, we won, end of story. Wow. . . good thing we cleared that up. So anytime one group dislikes the actions of another group we can now simply pass a voter initiative to stop those actions. What about a voter initiative that would require a popular vote on building permits for all religious edifices? How about a popular vote on the issue of polygamy? I don't like how the Bush administration is handling the war in Iraq. . . let's put it to a vote? Voter initiatives on hot button, social issues are bad policy, period. It is far too easy to get something like this on the ballot in California. Be prepared for some other bias-based initiative for 2010--California gets one every election.

Karl

I admit what stuck out to me out of all this was this phrase: "bias-motivated arson" at an LDS site.

If any other group had been targeted, it would have been called a hate crime.

Matt

Why cant a church, made up of ordinary citizens, support a ballot measure? How can a church be a church if it doesnt openly and proudly oppose immorality in all its forms. So, if you believe that homosexuality is not immoral and that gays should have the right to be called married, how much different are you than the people who dont believe that. Its a belief. You vote on belief and conviction. Ive never been so proud to be LDS, or Mormon, than I am now. We were part, not the cause, of an historic election in which we believe that we voted for morality.
I feel any church has every right to support ballots which are fundamentally morality based. Churches keep morality alive in America.

re: JG - Reply | 8:48 a.m.

"Utah is most definitley a hate state. My LDS neighbors don't speak to me and their kids don't play with mine. It's this elitist attitude that only takes spark to ignite the hate in non-mormons.

When the mormons start praticing what they preach will they get the benefit of the doubt when taking a side.

I can't wait until 2030.. "

Of course you have nothing to do with it. I suspect if you move to Skokie Illinois and spout anti-semitic rhetoric - Jewish kids wont play with you there either. BTW I am not LDS but I get along just fine with Mormons, its the baiters I tire of (and the neighbors with the obnoxious dogs).

Please dont wait untill 2030 to look in the mirror.

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