Comments about ‘Protests over Proposition 8 outcome getting personal’

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Published: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 12:08 a.m. MST

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UtahGuy

You can protest all you want. It is not going to make a lick of difference.

Teeky

I disagree Tom - the solution is that no one should get marriage by the state. The reason so many religious people oppose alternative forms of marriage is because they view marriage as a religious sacrament or rite. Thus these people view the state as administering a fundamentally religious rite.

The answer then is to get the government out of the marriage business. All relationships between consenting adults would get the legal status of civil unions from city hall. Then, if they wanted, they could get married within a church. Religious institutions must be granted freedom to refuse marriage to anyone, and existing same-sex unions could be considered legal. This could be done without any change to the law, just the restriction on what government can do. CA should pass a law that the State does not have the authority to perform marriages, but only allows the state to bestow legal rights on relationships in which the participants want the legal benefits offered by the state.

Unfortunately I don't think such a sterile contract reflects what marriage traditionally means to our society. But the competing traditions of heterosexual marriage and equal protection are being balanced here and somethings gotta give

The Truth about Prop 8

To all of you "brave" gay protesters who beat up old ladies and attack certain religions who in a very Christ-like way turn the other cheek let me explain something to you. Prop. 8 was about religous liberty.

Without Prop. 8 if the LDS or Catholic church refuse to marry people of the same sex same they could be subject to legal prosecution. The whole 1st ammendment to the constitution would be at stake. Ultimately the Constitution could "hang by a thread".

Gays have protection under the law against discrimination. Legal protection for any partnerships can be attained for property rights, insurance etc. Gay marriage is really an attack on organized religon. That is the dirty little secret that the Gay protesters don't want you to know!

JG - Reply

Utah is most definitley a hate state. My LDS neighbors don't speak to me and their kids don't play with mine. It's this elitist attitude that only takes spark to ignite the hate in non-mormons.

When the mormons start praticing what they preach will they get the benefit of the doubt when taking a side.

I can't wait until 2030..

Weak Arguments

Ok, I support Prop 8 and would have voted yes had I lived in CA. But I have to address two of the weakest arguments in the history of debate that keep coming up. 1. History says so. I could go on and on about how people historically have been wrong about all types of things. ALL societies at one time or another have come to the conclusion that women are inferior and should be treated as such. Does that mean it's right? So just because hetero marriage is the way it has always been done does not necessarily make it right. 2. Democracy. I don't know whether people in Utah learn about govt or their country in grade school but we do NOT live in a freaking Democracy. We live in a Republic - remember the pledge of allegiance - which PROTECTS the rights of all including the minority through a Constitution enforced by law (judges). Just because the majority has spoken does not make it right if it limits the rights of others or discriminates in some way. Really only one argument holds water -- God said so. There's another one but don't have enough wordslefttowrite it.

Clifton


Free Agent | 6:14 a.m. Nov. 13, 2008
As the LDS Church often states, "choices have consequences". The church and its members chose to get involved in the political process on a red-hot issue (the church putting pressure on the members from the pulpit and even in temple recommend interviews), and ought to have anticipated the possible repercussions. I don't agree with the reactions, which are extreme, but the church took a stand and now needs to deal with the consequences.

Free agent: What you posted here is an out and out lie. Never in my many years in this Church have I heard anything remotely resemble hate, bigotry or anything political supporting a cause or issue preached from the pulpit and that includes Prop 8. Nor anything like it in Temple recommends How is it you think you know so much about these things? Perhaps you need to wise up and check your sources again, or better yet wise up!

RE: Tom

Marriage is not a civil right, as it's defined by a union between a man and a woman. Homosexuals have equal rights - under the law - with civil unions. These unions grant every "right" to homosexual couples as married couples. This is not about rights, it's about finding something else to rally about and complain, which strengthens your belief system.

I admire the boldness and courage of the homosexuals for standing up for what they feel is important. They represent less than 5% of the poplation, but have a very strong voice for such a small percentage. I hope I have the same courage to stand up for my personal convictions.

For me, altering the definition of marriage goes against my fundamental beliefs taught in the scriptures. Making a sinful lifestyle mainstream is like making it OK to commit adultery (oh wait, that was already done), or saying it's OK to steal. A sinful lifestyle should not be acceptable in a culture that loves God and keeps the commandments he has given us to abide by on this earth. These laws help us know how to govern ourselves in this short life to be happy in the next life.

Richard

"Opponents of Proposition 8 issued a statement last week asking those disheartened by the passage of the initiative not to target those who voted the other way."

Those would be wise words to listen to. Because now prop 8 has fullhearted supporters like me who preiviously backed the gay community until they were stabbed right in the back by the religiously bigoted views of the groups they were rallying with. I was all for tolerance and comprimise until anti-prop 8 supporters shared their intolerant uncomprimising hate for anyone they could judge by their religious affiliation istead of who they really were.

So next time you pull out your signs, spray cans, and start screaming at someone because they're different(a lesson you'd think some would understand), maybe realize that you could be screaming in the face of one of your supporters.

Matthew

Some people need to label and villify those that disagree with them because they are so insecure in there position/opinion that they can't deal with someone disagreeing in any other way. Some people need to label and vilify those that disagree with them because they are so insecure in there position/opinion that they can't deal with others disagreeing in any other way. This is true of some people on both sides of most issues. Having said that, there are often a few villains on each side of most issues as well. Just be thoughtful about ones attempts to point out those few villains. If you indiscriminately use a broad brush, you might end up being one of the villains.
Being officially married in the eyes of the state is genuinely important to some Gay/Lesbian people. Applying marriage to a Gay/Lesbian union does fundamentally change the meaning of marriage and is thus of genuine concern to many people. This is a fundamental disagreement, but does not involve hate on either side.
Unfortunately some angry demonstrators are choosing to show their own hate by unjustly labeling others as hateful. Hopefully they are a minority of those that share their position.

Supplanting the Vote

If the CA Supreme Court Rules Prop 8 invalid, then We have NO REASON TO HOLD ELECTIONS. If democracy is the will of the people, and a few judges can OVERTHROW that democracy, then we have surrendered the RIGHT to "Petition the Government for a Redress of Grievances" in favor of a Despotic Judiciary.

re: Tom

"Marriage is a fundamental right - everybody gets it, or nobody gets it." No Tom - you dont get it.
Marraige is not a right and there are numersous restrictions even for heterosexuals: focus on something real.

InAZ

That's what desperate people do.....if they have little or no more reasonable points to make they get personal. In an argument/debate, if you have to resort to personal attacks, you lose your argument.

Jason

All of you pro Prop. 8 people continue to spew your hypocrisy, venom and lies. This is a republic not a democracy. The supreme court said prohibiting gays and lesbians from marrying was unconstitutional and legally allowed up till now the GLBT to marry. The right to marry WAS taken away! Get your facts straight people! Mormons are so convinced that they are the only church, and that their leaders speak for God here on Earth, that they cannot see what they have done is wrong! Along with countless of other faiths as well! You say you have a right to voice your views, but then the GLBT community voices theirs and they are religious bigots, hypocrits, etc. Excuse me? You are the hypocrites ladies and gentlemen not the GLBT community. The constitution was never intended to say that the rights that tax-paying citizens can only be reserved for specific groups is WRONG! That is what was said when Prop. 8 passed. Pure and simple! You all need to grow up and get over yourselves. I am so glad I left the church. BTW, criticizing those who leave the church shows you as hateful too!

Why would I

Want to have screaming, intolerant, bigoted inviduals waving rainbow flags to frequent my business or my state? What would they frequent them with, stones and spray paint? Stay away! I don't want your business or your tourism dollars. I support marriage between a man and a women, am free to do so and to speak out against homosexual marriage. If you can't handle that Prop 8 passed, learn to get over yourselves.

Familiar arguments

I'm sick of bigotry against me. i'm sick of being unfairly targeted for something I was born into and believe with all my heart. I'm sick of being targeted and repressed. but more than anything, I'm sick of people hell-bent on destroying my character and infringing my constitutional rights.

signed...the Christian Right.

(to LBGA and those like-minded, keep up the H8 speech and vandalism, it's doing wonders for advancing your cause.)

LDS in NYC

I live right next to the NYC temple and was welcomed home last night by 5,000 people spewing hate at the church. Does this bother me? Maybe a little. Am I glad it is happening? Yes. The more they protest, the more they discredit their cause. They look foolish and simplistic using words like 'hate' and 'homophobia' to describe a people that, collectively, have never hated anyone. The general public doesn't buy this type of intimidation and the LDS will not be intimidated. In a world where it was once legal to kill a 'mormon' upon seeing him/her, this is just another bump in the road...

jt

looks to me like these people who profess to be targeted by hate crimes are doing just that. they are committing hate crimes towards anyone who is against them. i find that prejudice and they should be penalized. i will pray for their souls. when they stomped on that womans cross, they committed a hate crime. nuff said.

Re CABE

If you had the guts to disclose your business name, you can bet you would be targeted for boycott.

Future Generations

To all those posting pro-Prop 8 comments. I want you to print them out and stick them in a drawer or filing cabinet in your homes. I'm sure you'll want your grandchildren to know you were the authors of such comments. They'll want to know know that you proudly fought against equal civil rights for all members of society.

Eye for an Eye

So, what's with the vandalism at LDS church meeting houses? The news on TV last night reported someone lighting a Book of Mormon on fire and throwing it at a church. The police were unsure who did it (duh!), but they are classifying it as a "hate crime". All these protestors are labeling the church as a hate organization. Who are the ones vandalizing churches? Who are the ones commiting "hate crimes"? Figure that one out...

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