Comments about ‘Protests over Proposition 8 outcome getting personal’

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Published: Thursday, Nov. 13 2008 12:08 a.m. MST

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Stop and think

The riots and hurtful media regarding Prop 8 against Christian beliefs and especially the Mormons are HORRIBLE. Mormons show love and understanding to others no matter individuals circumstances, color, decisions or beliefs. All I ask is the same in return. Its easier to be understanding of a group that isn't yelling insults. As a people we can all be understanding of others wants and wishes, but being understanding doesnt mean we have to agree with them. If respect is not given how do gays expect to be treated in return? Those of you who are Mormon, or not Mormon, may be pro 8, or against 8. It doesn't matter... What matters is that whichever side of the fence you are on, treat the other side with RESPECT. Yes, this country is a free country, but living in a free country doesn't make it okay to publicly criticize, harass, insult, slander, or punish one another. Just because a church tries to protect a belief doesn't mean anyone opposing are bigots and it doesn't mean the church hates the people doing whatever they don't believe in - it just means the church has principle and enough sense to stand up for it.

No end in sight

"Matt, your 8:37 comment is really useful I think. People should step back and try to see how they would feel and react if the shoe were on the other foot."

Couldn't agree more for both sides of the fence. Unfortunately, this is an ultra-emotional issue. The religionists see it as good vs evil. The uneducated can't see past the "ick" factor of the homosexual. Gays and their supports see it as a civil rights issue. There is no common ground. It ain't gonna happen.

These verbal poundings will continue as long as DesNews prints articles.

Pete

I am not sure of all of the religious arguments about this, but I do understand that it is, legally, a slippery slope to start down if you give gays and lesbians a constitutional right to marraige. I have nothing against them getting this right . . . I am just pointing out it will open the door for lots of other groups can make their arguments that they should be able to marry whoever they want too.

Re: Matt | 8:37 a.m. Nov. 13, 20

I agree. Mormons have never had their marriage practices under attack, mormons have never been targeted, belittled, acused of indoctrinating youth, had the law used against them, and been denied the right to life, murdered, ravaged, or tortured, or kicked out of their homes in the middle of the night, watched their sick die, moved from home to home, city to city, state to state.

They wouldnt know how to judge in this situation right??

To Bob

What an uninformed opinion. Absolutely no money came from tithing funds, tithing interest, or any other church sources.

The money donated by individual Mormons accounted for approximately 40-50% of the money raised by the Prop 8 side. The anti-8 people have sites which actually name or identify donators - and appear to be using the information to make personal attacks on those individuals. The case of the director of a California Theater Group (for over 25 years), was targeted, and chose to resign rather than have the anti-8's hurt the group. The Catholic dairyman was 'outed' and is being personally harassed.

Perhaps all pro-8's should look at who donated to the anti-8 side and boycott/protest against them? Perhaps not buy any more Corel software for example as at least a million was donated by the founder who lives in Utah. Also big companies such as McDonalds, Levi Strauss, PG&E and others. No more WordPerfect, burgers or jeans, and develop alternative sources of energy so we don't have to be dependent on PG&E in our neck of the woods. Tit for tat would not work.

Anti-8 protesters are wrong to protest in the way they are doing.

optimistic

Hey look on the bright side, they are only carrying around signs and chanting. At least they aren't ransacking our houses or dragging us out in the street and tarring and feathering us like people in the past have when they didn't agree with us.

Feel Like Ralphing

Yo, Ralph, did you happen to catch the "No on 8" ad that portrayed two Mormon missionaries bullying their way into a Lesbian household, going through their underwear drawers and tearing up their wedding certificate in their faces?

How accurate was that?

Show me one instance where that has happened?

Yet everyone rails on the Yes on 8 ads that claim gay marriage will become acceptable to be taught in schools -- this when there was a clear case where a class of first graders attended a lesbian wedding on a field trip.

So which side had the most deceptive ads again?

KathyB

This issue is not about politics OR religion- it's all about the MONEY. Gays wouldn't seek marriage if there wasn't some economic benefit to it- tax breaks, legal rights to estates, etc. If they want those things, that's not wrong. But it is my right to practice my religion's belief about what I believe God calls a marriage.

PapaBear

The Gay Rights folks have their rights to their beliefs and opinions ,they just do not believe that others should have the same rights . The majority does not count any more. The california problem just inforces my belief ,that the individual vote means NOTHING...

Nate

To 10:07: Public funds, use of public property, public interest.

In those cases you cite, the entities were either receiving taxpayer funds or using public property. You cannot participate in public programs (even if you call yourself private) and discriminate. There is not a single case where a fully private institution has had its free speech or rights restricted.

@jfs

I am not sure if you are aware of this jfs but those rainbow organizations you speak of including equality Utah and Equality California are not tax exempt because they do lobby. Some of the people calling for the tax exempt status to be removed from the LDS church is based on their belief that it creates an uneven playing field by giving the LDs church an unfair funding edge. I personally really do not care but I thought you should know.

To Protests are Fair and Healthy

Someone with their head in the sand wrote: "Also, there weren't gay-funded Mormon-bashing commercials ..."

That is absolutely false. There was a commercial portraying two Mormon missionaries entering a lesbian couple's home and bullying them while searching for their wedding certificate so they could gleefully tear it up in their faces. For crying out loud, it even showed them giving the underwear in their drawers a nice squeeze while they were rummaging through them.

Protests are fair and healthy -- as long as they are respectful. People would have a lot more respect for the gay crowd if they held respectful protests. Instead they're acting like a bunch of lunatics. Did you see the goon who tore a cross out of an old lady's hand at the protest yesterday. They threw the cross on the ground and stomped on it, then this moron kept shoving his "No on 8" placard in the lady's face.

Utterly discraceful. Your crowd is the only one who has the right to protest and let their thoughts be known?

What an embarrassment to today's society.

Re being told to donate

I'm a California active LDS person. I was ASKED to donate, along with doing all I could to support Proposition 8. During this same period I needed to renew my temple recommend, and neither my Bishop or the Stake President asked me ANYTHING about politics. Just the same questions as prescribed in the handbook. Period.

Did I donate? Did I walk the neighborhoods? Did I pass out literature? Did I vote yes? Only I would know that. Neither my Bishop or any other leaders in my Stake in Northern California have EVER asked. If it happened in other areas it was overzealousy on the part of the leaders.

Your attacks honor my position

Claim I am hateful: boycott me, yell at me, vandalize my property, and demean me and my religion. Call me names: call me a homophobe or whatever you want. Call me a liar. Say I am in the wrong and you are in the right. None of that changes the truth:

No matter what, MARRIAGE REMAINS DEFINED BETWEEN A MAN AND A WOMAN. For the purpose of upholding everyone's best interest, I advocate marriage's definition be upheld so that the fundamental unit of society can be upheld. I believe my position best benefits everyone. Whether male or female--which constitutes all of humanity--marriage remains equally available to all. I am sad if you exclude yourself from marriage as it is defined, If marriage as it is defined is not what you want, than rather than attack what marriage is, doesn't it make more sense to go directly after benefits for your unique unions.

I will still treat you w/ civility as a human. I will uphold your freedoms, including all your rights; allowing life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I will respect your vote on issues. I will even try to understand your position. Will you?

if proposition 8 hadn't passed?

if prop 8 got hadn't passed...would gay activists still protest on LDS church property for supporting prop 8 even thought it hadn't passed?

people have spoken

Yes, this is a democracy and people do have the right to vote on things, but the US Supreme Court established that marriage is a fundamental right in the case of Loving V. Virginia back in 1967. Under the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution, all citizens are supposed to be given due process and equal rights, thus this issue should never have been brought before the voters.

Nate, the voters are the people. This is a government created for the people by the people. The government is our servant and not vise-versa. If the government does not listen to the will of the people, they can be replaced even the judges if necessary. Read the preamble to the Declaration of Independence, it outlines the process beautifully.

Amercenary

Matt 8:37 See American history October 27,1838 Missouri Executive Order 44. Not only were "Mormons" marriages forbidden, but "Mormons" were forbidden to live in the state of Missouri.

Check your history. Nothing in Prop 8 says that "Gays and Lesbians" are forbidden to live in the state of California.

Missouri Executive order stood until 1976.

Let me see if I understand you correctly I as a "Mormon" am not allowed by executive order to live in the state of Missouri until after 1976. You want my sympathy for a minority with a chosen life style that is being forbidden the rights of marriage where in this country has the gay community been given an excutive order to leave this state or die?

stop your hate now

What is most surprising is that mormons, as a persecuted group, are so happy to persecute another group!! Why should you give a rat's behind as to how other people want to love each other? I have a great idea, let's pass a referendum that says that mormons are not fit to raise children (let's not forget what happened in texas recently). i am sure a lot of mainstream americans would support such a referendum. How would you feel then, all of you bigots who are so gleeful that you "won"? Don't forget, while you are so giddy with the victory of your hateful agenda, that most Americans perceive the mormons as a cult, and i believe with good reason. Isn't it in cults that members blindly follow the directives of leaders? That is exactly what has happened here. People who are not capable of independent thought join the 'pile-on' against any weaker group. Open your eyes.

John Pack Lambert

Proposition 8 was about protecting children from attacks. Learn about the kindergarten children in Hayward, California who were being taught about coming out day without any warning being given to the parents.
The radical elements within the homosexual movement are trying to corrupt five year olds. Notice I said radial elements, not everyone who practices homosexuality let alone everyone who feels such inclinations is involved in these totally sick actions, but there are those in the movement who have no problem urging their agenda on kindergartners, and if they were able to redifine marriage as a basic, inalienable right there would be no stopping them.

JG

All of you are so right.. I am outside my house name calling and acting out.. I guess waving toward your neighbor and getting nothing in return is too much to ask.. And please, it's not neighbor, it's neighbor(s). We even attend our neighborhood July 24th party and never felt so isolated. Were we excited about the celebration of that date? Nope, not at all but respected the tradition.

And the "move if you don't like it" comment.. Love it.. Sorry.. I'm here to stay. I've lived in quite a few states and have never experienced the seperatist feeling of Utah.

I've heard rumors of such neighborhoods where LDS and non's get along.. Just haven't seen it in person.

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