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Jeffs, 3 others are indicted in Texas probe
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Prosecute the criminal | 10:39 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
"Essentially the case is on hold while she's undergoing this mental
health evaluation," said El Paso County District Attorney's
spokeswoman Lin Billings"
What does her mental health have to do with this? She committed a crime and her being crazy or ill doesn't have anything to do with it.
Are they going to offer the same courtesy to the FLDS if their lawyers claim they aren't mentally healthy? This woman was capable of making a phone call and living a independent life before now so I think that she is normal enough to be prosecuted.
She knew enough to make the false claims which means she knew who to call to make the complaint which is proof that she knows the law well enough.
What does her mental health have to do with this? She committed a crime and her being crazy or ill doesn't have anything to do with it.
Are they going to offer the same courtesy to the FLDS if their lawyers claim they aren't mentally healthy? This woman was capable of making a phone call and living a independent life before now so I think that she is normal enough to be prosecuted.
She knew enough to make the false claims which means she knew who to call to make the complaint which is proof that she knows the law well enough.
I can see clearly | 12:51 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
This has NOTHING to do with Rosita and her mental health. It is EVERYTHING to
do with Texas and Colorado covering up the evidence against her, which would
expose themselves and their conspiracy to commit genocide.
Comments continue below
Police fools? | 12:58 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Re: Police ". . . charge in with good intentions and make fools of
themselves."
It may well be that Ms. Swinton made a fool of herself, but to ascribe that to police or other early responders is groundless and insulting.
Police and child protection agencies did exactly what the law and common sense dictated under the circumstances. 9 indictments resulted.
So far.
FLDS and their sympathizers are attempting to vilify Ms. Swinton, diverting attention away from their own acts. And she may well have committed a crime.
But that cannot and should not excuse the unspeakable actions of FLDS pedophiles.
The justice system often becomes informed of crime by the serendipitous stupidity of criminals (eg., the dope dealer who complains to police of the theft of his stash). So what?
Thank goodness the law provides no defense to a criminal based on the stupidity of another.
It may well be that Ms. Swinton made a fool of herself, but to ascribe that to police or other early responders is groundless and insulting.
Police and child protection agencies did exactly what the law and common sense dictated under the circumstances. 9 indictments resulted.
So far.
FLDS and their sympathizers are attempting to vilify Ms. Swinton, diverting attention away from their own acts. And she may well have committed a crime.
But that cannot and should not excuse the unspeakable actions of FLDS pedophiles.
The justice system often becomes informed of crime by the serendipitous stupidity of criminals (eg., the dope dealer who complains to police of the theft of his stash). So what?
Thank goodness the law provides no defense to a criminal based on the stupidity of another.
nosugrof | 1:28 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Texas has not arrested Rozita Swinton because they do not want to remind the
public that this case began with a hoax.
John Q | 2:24 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
To nosugrof | 1:28:
Speaking as a member of the public, I don't care that the case began with a hoax. 17 FLDS will now be called to account for their actions.
How lucky can we get?
Speaking as a member of the public, I don't care that the case began with a hoax. 17 FLDS will now be called to account for their actions.
How lucky can we get?
Re Police fools? | 12:58 p.m | 2:31 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
In hindsight we know that the police did act like fools. They overreacted based
on bogus information they were given and the biases the bogus report fead
into.
If they didn't overreact, why have all but 4 of the 400+ cases been "un-sued" by the state?
You never rush in and take every child in a community from their families. Especially when the reason to enter their property in the first place was an obvious fabrication.
All Texas officials needed to do to confirm that the call was real or a fake was ask the simplest of questions. Something that could be verified. Check caller ID or cell-tower records for pete's sake! You could easily discover that the calls were not coming from the person nor the place they claimed. There is no way authorities thought this caller was legitimate, or-at-least-didn't-want-to-know(so-they-could-claim-plausible-ignorance-I-guess). Especially not with the confidence needed to get a search warrant or to break in and take all their personal records, computers, pictures, jurnals, AND EVERY CHILD!
They overreacted plain and simple. If the reaction were waranted they would have been able to bring charges. Instead almost all children have been released to their parents.
If they didn't overreact, why have all but 4 of the 400+ cases been "un-sued" by the state?
You never rush in and take every child in a community from their families. Especially when the reason to enter their property in the first place was an obvious fabrication.
All Texas officials needed to do to confirm that the call was real or a fake was ask the simplest of questions. Something that could be verified. Check caller ID or cell-tower records for pete's sake! You could easily discover that the calls were not coming from the person nor the place they claimed. There is no way authorities thought this caller was legitimate, or-at-least-didn't-want-to-know(so-they-could-claim-plausible-ignorance-I-guess). Especially not with the confidence needed to get a search warrant or to break in and take all their personal records, computers, pictures, jurnals, AND EVERY CHILD!
They overreacted plain and simple. If the reaction were waranted they would have been able to bring charges. Instead almost all children have been released to their parents.
To Police fools? @ 12:58 pm | 2:53 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
It looks like you've already made up your mind without knowing too many
facts (the reporting by this and other newspapers has been sloppy). Easy.
Polygamists are always guilty of every crime dreamed up against them. Right?
It's too bad we as a society willingly accept all forms of deviants. What we don't tolerate is anyone trying to live a funadmental, segregated, Biblically based society.
A commune? That's okay. Multiple partners? Sure, as long as you're not married to them. Two guys or two gals hooking up? That's great--we love and respect you. But don't any of you ever try and set up a separate community where God's law rules. That's despicable.
Some of you Mormons would go along with society's wish to imprison Brother Brigham if he were alive today. Think for a change, rather than accept the news as the gospel.
It's too bad we as a society willingly accept all forms of deviants. What we don't tolerate is anyone trying to live a funadmental, segregated, Biblically based society.
A commune? That's okay. Multiple partners? Sure, as long as you're not married to them. Two guys or two gals hooking up? That's great--we love and respect you. But don't any of you ever try and set up a separate community where God's law rules. That's despicable.
Some of you Mormons would go along with society's wish to imprison Brother Brigham if he were alive today. Think for a change, rather than accept the news as the gospel.
common sense | 2:57 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Eight more indictments! Four more people. And one more Grand Jury hearing in
December.... Way to go Texas!!!
tigerlily | 3:24 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
I can see clearly: this whole mess started because of the phone call.
tigerlily | 3:25 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Re Police fools?::: only one child is still in state custody
Re: Re Police fools? | 2:31 | 3:33 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
As I'm sure you are well aware, but hate to admit, there was no
overreaction or foolishness on the part of the police, only the FLDS.
There was no question of resolving the issues by asking a few questions -- all FLDS were evasive, accusatory, and obfuscatory from the get go.
The information received was not obviously bogus. It was internally consistent and, in fact, proved to provide a valid description of many circumstances observed within the compound.
Finally, all but a handful of the nonsuited cases are still subject to court and CPS surveillance under court-supervised parenting agreements.
A far cry from your blame-all-but-the-guilty approach!
Early responders were faced with a situation in which every adult they were permitted to speak with was evasive and uncooperative. Since then, it has also been shown that all adults in the compound were either involved in criminal activity, or in actively covering for the perps. That renders them all co-conspirators. And every child in the compound at-risk. You attempt to to buttress your bogus claims by saying they couldn't bring charges.
The total is now 17.
And counting.
There was no question of resolving the issues by asking a few questions -- all FLDS were evasive, accusatory, and obfuscatory from the get go.
The information received was not obviously bogus. It was internally consistent and, in fact, proved to provide a valid description of many circumstances observed within the compound.
Finally, all but a handful of the nonsuited cases are still subject to court and CPS surveillance under court-supervised parenting agreements.
A far cry from your blame-all-but-the-guilty approach!
Early responders were faced with a situation in which every adult they were permitted to speak with was evasive and uncooperative. Since then, it has also been shown that all adults in the compound were either involved in criminal activity, or in actively covering for the perps. That renders them all co-conspirators. And every child in the compound at-risk. You attempt to to buttress your bogus claims by saying they couldn't bring charges.
The total is now 17.
And counting.
tigerlily | 4:33 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Re: Re Police fools?: obviously you didn't read the whole article. it said
some of those new charges were for some of the earlier people. so no the count
is not 17
Joey | 5:39 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Actually the whole raid was done in error, because they were raiding a community
of households, i.e. separate families, whose rights were not respected. The
police don't have the right to execute blanket warrants of whole towns,
which is exactly what they did. Too bad for Texas and the haters, because all
the evidence will now have to be tossed since it was gathered in a reckless
fashion.
Alex Trebek | 7:04 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
RE: I can see clearly,
Dude, calm down. Genocide? You've got to be kidding, right? Accuse the police of being overzealous and overreacting. Claiming genocide is asinine. Stop trying to put yourself on par with the Jews and other peoples in 3rd world countries who were TRULY targeted for genocide.
Dude, calm down. Genocide? You've got to be kidding, right? Accuse the police of being overzealous and overreacting. Claiming genocide is asinine. Stop trying to put yourself on par with the Jews and other peoples in 3rd world countries who were TRULY targeted for genocide.
Ohioan | 7:06 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
GOD BLESS TEXAS!!!!!!!
They are doing something Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and who knows where else, should do!
They are doing something Utah, Colorado, Arizona, and who knows where else, should do!
anonymous | 7:13 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
13 men have now been indicted, all felony , assault, of underage girls. Bigamy,
wow, this is great!!
TX is dragging this out | 7:25 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
The only reason why these indictments are slowly being issued to to build
publicity for the State of Texas. They know the convictions will be overturned
in Federal Court but that will take years.
Plenty of time for people to foget this was a waste of 40 million dollars.
Plenty of time for people to foget this was a waste of 40 million dollars.
RE TX is dragging | 7:25 | 7:42 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
I hope (but seriously doubt) this investigation and prosecution actually did
cost $40 million. That's $40 million that will be billed to the corrupt
FLDS organization under Texas' RICO statute.
zxcvbnm | 7:49 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Evasive.......bunk. The persons answered the questions it is just that CPS did not accept the answers. The initial replys by the women have been investigated and reported and were found to be truthful.
Voss saw what she wanted to see. heard what she wanted to hear, and ignored what she wanted to ignore.
It is amazing how people ignore pregnant teens that were adults, and that 402 of the "abused" kids were released because.....THEY WEREN'T ABUSED.
We now have men indited for bigamy when it is legal in this country to mix or match partners like a cheap suit and the legality of bigamy laws is being questioned by a conservative Supreme Court.
Waste some more money on this mess and cheer like teenagers at a pep rally if it makes you happy but in the end the State looks like a bunch of bumbling bozos.........Wanna buy a tank?
RICO | 10:52 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Lets see a RICO attemt to take the church land.
The $20million church land is becoming worth less and less each day that it isn't worked. A torch will take care of the cabins and all that will remain in that desert is a giant white elephant to testify to the destruction of a religion by the state.
BTW.......$30million was the official state total at the release of the children from foster care. $40million is the official state total a month ago.......State figures.........yep the numbers are real.
20 million is the appraisal of the property before the raid.
The UEP trust is being dismantled as we speak.......and YFZ was funded from funds outside of the trust.
The State will eat the $40million.........cha ching.
Interloper | 12:19 a.m. Nov. 13, 2008
I have to be the lawyer with bad news, apparently. In reading the
correspondence with the attorney generals what strikes me is that the response
could apply to any informant or informant/victim. They are refusing to release
information about people other than Rozita Swinton. The assumption that none of
the FLDS women and children have informed is kind of amusing. With so many
people involved, it is likely some did.
Wants to Know | 1:55 a.m. Nov. 13, 2008
Deseret News:
"The grand jury's term, which was extended by three months, is set to expire after it meets again Dec. 16."
Does this mean the grand jury has been extended from Dec 16th to Jan-March???
Or, does it mean that the end of the extension is Dec 16th???
"The grand jury's term, which was extended by three months, is set to expire after it meets again Dec. 16."
Does this mean the grand jury has been extended from Dec 16th to Jan-March???
Or, does it mean that the end of the extension is Dec 16th???
To RICO | 10:52 | 7:15 a.m. Nov. 13, 2008
Re: "YFZ was funded from outside of the trust."
You mean with funds looted from the trust?
Don't worry, the RICO division of the TX attorney general's office is smart enough to figure that out.
You mean with funds looted from the trust?
Don't worry, the RICO division of the TX attorney general's office is smart enough to figure that out.
To Mr. Jessop | 7:27 a.m. Nov. 13, 2008
Re: "Jessop told the Deseret News, 'When we get our day in court,
everyone will see that what they did was criminal.'"
I seriously doubt it.
Even if the actions of Texas authorities were criminal (which they weren't), evidence of their criminality would be irrelevant and inadmissible in your pedophilia case.
This is nothing more than the guilty blaming the innocent. A classic magician's trick, it's called misdirection.
They've been playing it for years -- "Watch my left hand. While I fleece you with my right."
You'll find it only works on your carefully groomed FLDS victims, not on Texas courts.
I seriously doubt it.
Even if the actions of Texas authorities were criminal (which they weren't), evidence of their criminality would be irrelevant and inadmissible in your pedophilia case.
This is nothing more than the guilty blaming the innocent. A classic magician's trick, it's called misdirection.
They've been playing it for years -- "Watch my left hand. While I fleece you with my right."
You'll find it only works on your carefully groomed FLDS victims, not on Texas courts.
zxcvbnm | 11:00 a.m. Nov. 13, 2008
Even the Texas courts will see thru misdirection. SCOTEX saw thru CPS arguments and sent children home. Even CPS finaly figured out that 26 teenagers were women and 402 kids were not subjects of abuse.
CPS could not "misdirect the court by twisting the words of its own psycologist to fit the dreamnt up scenerio.
The psycologist said the kids were well adjusted......MHMR pointed to CPS abuse....Child supervision persons cried as they watched mothers interact with children on ther one hr. per week visits. State education authorities said the kids were at grade level.
Yep......Courts will see thru CPS "misdirection".
What we need now is to find that baby graveyard......get your shovels boys.......dig in any direction that pleases you and be sure to wave at the first Chinaman you see.
Gal50 | 7:44 p.m. Nov. 18, 2008
It is six days later. Where are these guys?
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Even if some good comes out of it eventually, it's NEVER acceptable to call in a false report against someone else to get the police to charge in with good intentions and make fools of themselvs.