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Pleasant Grove religious case in top court today
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Why Not | 10:54 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
I think a monument to Saint Priapus would look most lovely in the park.
Suds | 11:02 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Only the Supreme Court Justus's have the right and calling to receive
revelation for the whole United States. God will tell them what he wants us to
know...
Umm, ...wait a minute, maybe I'm a little confused. Is this the part where the constitution hangs by a thread or is this the part where the very elect will be deceived?
Can we please go back to talking about Gays again?
Umm, ...wait a minute, maybe I'm a little confused. Is this the part where the constitution hangs by a thread or is this the part where the very elect will be deceived?
Can we please go back to talking about Gays again?
Comments continue below
dr smith | 11:04 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
"Utah" was Mexican territory at the time of settlement, so we ought to
have indigenous beliefs (involving peyote, for example) if "history"
is part of "government speech." There is no genre of speech called
"government speech" recognized by the First Amendment; DuH; this
pertains to citizens only, of course. PG is an embarassment to the nation. PG
is horribly confused on this point, and the SC has a long tradition, tradition
or liberal or otherwise, of finding against government sponsorship of
'religious' materials to the exclusion of any single religion. Would
you want your tax dollars spent on an "Ode to Odin" pagan monument?
Why should non-Jews have to support a Jewish Law, which I recall Jesus roundly
condemning Nephite Apostles for their continued adherence to? The law is done;
a new law is given, and that has for two centuries guided this nation's
'tolerance' of religious and non-religious persons alike. Perhaps we
should being offering stonings of adulterers, at government expense?
Robert Oh | 11:48 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
"The country's laws based upon the ten commandments."
Well, except for those pesky first five.
Well, except for those pesky first five.
Here are the seven | 1:50 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
From their website:
The seven great Summum Principles upon which the Summum Philosophy is based are as follows:
I. THE PRINCIPLE OF PSYCHOKINESIS
II. THE PRINCIPLE OF CORRESPONDENCE
III. THE PRINCIPLE OF VIBRATION
IV. THE PRINCIPLE OF OPPOSITION
V. THE PRINCIPLE OF RHYTHM
VI. THE PRINCIPLE OF CAUSE AND EFFECT
VII. THE PRINCIPLE OF GENDER
Each of these items is followed by a descriptive paragraph. The Washington Post has a paraphrased version on their site.
The seven great Summum Principles upon which the Summum Philosophy is based are as follows:
I. THE PRINCIPLE OF PSYCHOKINESIS
II. THE PRINCIPLE OF CORRESPONDENCE
III. THE PRINCIPLE OF VIBRATION
IV. THE PRINCIPLE OF OPPOSITION
V. THE PRINCIPLE OF RHYTHM
VI. THE PRINCIPLE OF CAUSE AND EFFECT
VII. THE PRINCIPLE OF GENDER
Each of these items is followed by a descriptive paragraph. The Washington Post has a paraphrased version on their site.
The Seven Aphorisms of Summum | 1:54 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
From the W.P.
1. SUMMUM is MIND, thought; the universe is a mental creation.
2. As above, so below; as below, so above.
3. Nothing rests; everything moves; everything vibrates.
4. Everything is dual; everything has an opposing point; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes bond; all truths are but partial truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled.
5. Everything flows out and in; everything has its season; all things rise and fall; the pendulum swing expresses itself in everything; the measure of the swing to the right is the measure of the swing to the left; rhythm compensates.
6. Every cause has its effect; every effect has its cause; everything happens according to Law; Chance is just a name for Law not recognized; there are many fields of causation, but nothing escapes the Law of Destiny.
7. Gender is in everything; everything has its masculine and feminine principles; Gender manifests on all levels.
1. SUMMUM is MIND, thought; the universe is a mental creation.
2. As above, so below; as below, so above.
3. Nothing rests; everything moves; everything vibrates.
4. Everything is dual; everything has an opposing point; everything has its pair of opposites; like and unlike are the same; opposites are identical in nature, but different in degree; extremes bond; all truths are but partial truths; all paradoxes may be reconciled.
5. Everything flows out and in; everything has its season; all things rise and fall; the pendulum swing expresses itself in everything; the measure of the swing to the right is the measure of the swing to the left; rhythm compensates.
6. Every cause has its effect; every effect has its cause; everything happens according to Law; Chance is just a name for Law not recognized; there are many fields of causation, but nothing escapes the Law of Destiny.
7. Gender is in everything; everything has its masculine and feminine principles; Gender manifests on all levels.
Anonymous | 2:18 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
[i]Not only should we have displays of the 10 Commandments displayed in public
spaces, we MUST have, along side of them, the Biblically (God's Law)
prescribed penalties for violating any of God's Commandments!
Following another religion? DEATH
Working on the Sabbath (Saturday)? DEATH
Disrespectful to your parents? DEATH
Swearing? DEATH
Telling a lie? DEATH
You get the idea. Salt Lake Resident | 9:21 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008 [/i]
Do we really need any other evidence that keeping government and religion separate is wise? If this wasn't required by the Constitution, as a thinking and caring person, I would beg a majority Justices to read it in.
Following another religion? DEATH
Working on the Sabbath (Saturday)? DEATH
Disrespectful to your parents? DEATH
Swearing? DEATH
Telling a lie? DEATH
You get the idea. Salt Lake Resident | 9:21 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008 [/i]
Do we really need any other evidence that keeping government and religion separate is wise? If this wasn't required by the Constitution, as a thinking and caring person, I would beg a majority Justices to read it in.
Majority Rule | 3:16 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
You have weird beliefs and you are different. Either pack up and move like we
did or be quiet.
@majority Rule | 5:17 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
please push away the keyboard and pick up a basic us government test book before
you embarrass yourself and the state of Utah any more.
John Pack Lambert | 9:19 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
If the SCOTUS follows the precedents of the past it will rule in favor of
Pleasant Grove.
I think Pleasant Grove is right that this is government speech, and they have a right to accept or deney what they wish to.
Whether or not the use of religious monuments in government speech is ok is another issue.
However Summum's argument that the park is an open forum for monuments is false, and so they can not set up a monument.
This will be the ruling if there is any belief in precedents on the court.
I think Pleasant Grove is right that this is government speech, and they have a right to accept or deney what they wish to.
Whether or not the use of religious monuments in government speech is ok is another issue.
However Summum's argument that the park is an open forum for monuments is false, and so they can not set up a monument.
This will be the ruling if there is any belief in precedents on the court.
John Pack Lambert | 9:27 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
To the 1:43 commentator,
When the government set up the ten commandments monument they felt it was in the general feel of pioneer park.
Summum people can carry around big placards of their aphorisms all they want in the park.
When the government set up the ten commandments monument they felt it was in the general feel of pioneer park.
Summum people can carry around big placards of their aphorisms all they want in the park.
John Pack Lambert | 9:31 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
To SLR at 9:21,
You are 100% right about Brian. At one point he put out a notice to try and figure out where the other FOE Ten Commandments monuments were. Of course, they are infringing so much on people's rights when people have to search long and hard to find them.
You are 100% right about Brian. At one point he put out a notice to try and figure out where the other FOE Ten Commandments monuments were. Of course, they are infringing so much on people's rights when people have to search long and hard to find them.
John Pack Lambert | 9:38 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Stop the calling for people to move. Read Elder Ballards's talk from a
few years back where he denounced such.
Pleasant Grove is right that they should be able to say yes or no on a monument. Whether having the ten commandments monument constitutes an unacceptable establishment of religion is a seperate issue, however based on precedent the Supreme Court will likely allow that as well.
Pleasant Grove is right that they should be able to say yes or no on a monument. Whether having the ten commandments monument constitutes an unacceptable establishment of religion is a seperate issue, however based on precedent the Supreme Court will likely allow that as well.
The Prophet Speak | 11:23 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
REPENT. Send the Church money. It's the last days. The Second Coming is
nigh at hand.
Thank You @majority | 11:31 a.m. Nov. 18, 2008
Re @majority Rule... Utah, I'm afraid, is always embarrassing itself with
incorrect facts and history. I don't live in Utah anymore, but, wow,
reading these blogs is a lot like a family from the Appalacian mountains finding
a computer for the first time and plucking down their belief, albiet misplaced,
ideas of history and the facts....
HILARIOUS!!
HILARIOUS!!
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A Ten Commandments monument stands in Pleasant Grove's Pioneer Park. The monument was a gift to the city in 1971 by the Utah Aerie Fraternal Order of Eagles.
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I'd explain further, but I'd probably have better luck getting a tree to understand the basic principles of our country's legal foundations.