Comments about ‘Avoid name-calling’

I AM intolerant. I am intolerant of intolerant, hateful bigots who actively force their religious beliefs on others by denying marriage equality to same-sex couples.

I have lost sympathy for the gay cause.

If the shoe fits...

To jackhp:
Get a life (if possible) and find another cause, The "gay" movement is getting old.
You can pretend all you want that "gays" should have a right to get married, but marriage is a man/woman thing. Go get a civil union and be happy (if possible).
Pretending to be married is just that....fake!

New Yorker you are an embarrassment to the state of New York and should stop using that moniker.

It doesnt matter. The proposition will be rescinded within 8 years. Then we can read the sky is falling letters.

So lets see if I can follow the logic of the letter writer. The LDS poster on these threads are fond of using phrases like "you want us to call evil good and good evil" yet the letter writer seems to want those of us that view the LDS church as something less then good or honorable in this situation to call them good. Sorry it does not work for me. The LDS church has its right to spew its hate speech and I have the right to speak out against them. If that makes me a hater in your mind then so be it but I will not call evil good.

There is a reason Mormons have been run out of most places when their numbers get too high. The gays have found out why the hard way.

This is just sad. I don't like the church of my heritage being called hateful, or my many Mormon friends and family called bigots either. But I also don't like being called immoral or told I'm a threat to children.

Re: Free Speech (7:44).

"The LDS church has its right to spew its hate speech and I have the right to speak out against them."

Yet another person who thinks that when they speak their mind they are just speaking their mind, but someone saying the opposite is using "hate speech."

I'm more than a little tired of people on both sides of this issue abusing this term "hate speech" to suit their propaganda-style arguments. There are times it fits, but usually it is merely manipulative and shallow. Like here.

A religion that not too long ago had doctrinal racism should be careful when actively campaigning to restrict the rights of a growing minority group. How could anyone in the church be surprised by the reaction?

Do unto others what you would have done to yourself.

that they are bigots.

jackhp | 12:54 a.m.

At least you can admit that you are NOT Tolerant. Admiting the weakness is the first step towards overcoming it.

But somehow I suspect you have no intention of overcoming this. You seem to display your intolerance as a badge or honor.

I guess you expect a pat on the back for being intolerant (because obviouisly your intolerance is better than the intolerance of the group you are not tolerant of)

I guess you feel intolerance is a good quality to be cultivated as long as your intolerance is aimed at someone who wasn't tolerant?

Free Speech | 7:44 a.m.

Can you quote one example of "Hate Speach" from the LDS Church?

You said, "The LDS church has its right to spew its hate speech and I have the right to speak out against them."... I'm just wondering if you know what you're talking about, or if you are just caught up in the frenzie.

Any example of "Hate Speach" directly from the LDS Church will do. I'll be watching for your reply.

It's NEVER justified to retaliate against people for their votes or their voice. Being able to vote and speak politically WITHOUT fear of harm or retribution is just fundimental part of our form of government.

We are NOT ruled by mobs or angry people who threaten people if they don't vote the way they want! And Utahns didn't even get to vote in this referendum!

Of course protesting is also a fundimental part of being American, but vandalizing, intimidating and threatening people with harm are NOT accepted responses to an election result.

And Utahns didn't even get to vote on this proposition, yet you come here and say, You're going to be sorry you ever messed with us??? That type of response doesn't help your cause in the long run. The next time this issue comes up do you hope they will change their vote out of FEAR?

You should be protesting in Califorinia, where the voters decided to pass this proposition. And you should be protesting ALL the churches and other groups that supported the proposition, not just ONE (IF... your cause is really gay-rights and not Mormon Hatred).

Protest,make-speaches,-and-be-heard-all-you-want,-but-stop-the-vandalism!

so Joe when someone uses their free speech rights to invade another persons life and home and rip apart their marriage and their life what should we call it? Caring speech? Love speech? Sometimes the term hat speech fits.

I am the author of this letter. I am surprised how when I call for love and tolerance, people attack me and my fellow Saints as "haters". I will have all of you know that I had and have very conflicted views on the Church's involvement on Proposition 8. But to attack members who were conflicted or saddened, all because they prescribe to this particular religious system seems odd to me.

We don't claim to understand the Church's involvement. I still don't. And I may not even agree with it, but let's stop attacking each other and learn to be civil. We can have differences of opinion and still get along.

ironic,one group feels persecuted by a group who feels persecuted by the same group who felt persecuted by, and on and on it goes.MYOB

I would like someone to define "tolerance."

As it is, I think people are just talking in circles.

And can we all agree that not everything should be tolerated? Is there anyone who will stand up and say EVERYTHING should be tolerated? No?

I say this because when people get fired up, I like to define the extremes. It creates a boundary, and a common ground, and a sense of perspective.

By "retaliate" I guess you just mean speak out, right? I don't condone any actions other than speaking out, but it seems those gays were doing just what the LDS and other supporters of prop 8 were doing: speaking out. Please don't assume that the vandals represent the "gay community" or that these events are even related. That is unfair.

And people ARE protesting in California. See the article "Gay-rights protests continue across California" in this very paper. It's not just against the Mormons, though they were by far the biggest donors to Prop 8.

You are right though that we as a society are not ruled by mobs. In our country, fundamental rights are not ultimately decided at the ballot box. A majority cannot simply vote to take away rights from a minority. Maybe temporarily, yes, but the struggle continues and the tide is definitely against those who would treat gays as second-class citizens.