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Prop. 8 protest draws thousands in Salt Lake City
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To If our Church | 7:46 | 8:51 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Too bad you're leaving -- we'll miss you. And, sadly, your family,
for generations to come, will miss the truth.
But we'd be missing a lot more if we bought into the world's view that standing up for truth is hate.
It's not. It's love.
God loves you. He loves us all, including Californians on both sides of Prop 8. He wants us all to be happy. But he knows giving in to sin never brings happiness. And giving in to your hate won't bring happiness either.
God bless in your new life. When you get tired of hating, remember, we're always here for you.
But we'd be missing a lot more if we bought into the world's view that standing up for truth is hate.
It's not. It's love.
God loves you. He loves us all, including Californians on both sides of Prop 8. He wants us all to be happy. But he knows giving in to sin never brings happiness. And giving in to your hate won't bring happiness either.
God bless in your new life. When you get tired of hating, remember, we're always here for you.
Rights aren't created by statute | 8:52 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Be Still and Know,
"Gay people have the right to marry just like everyone else. They just don't have a special right to marry someone of the same sex."
Marriage is not a right and we shouldn't refer to it as a right. The problem we are having is because the people are referring to everything as right.
Rights are inalienable and can not be granted or denied by government. Rights are individual, not collective.
We have a right to freedom of speech. But don't have a right for government to promote or publish it.
We have freedom of religion. But don't have a right to force government to recognize our religion.
We have freedom of assembly but that doesn't mean that Congress has to allow us to assemble in the House chambers.
We have freedom to participate in public meetings but the majority and their representatives don't have to allow us to remain if we are disruptive.
We have freedom to elect members of Congress but the majority of Congress doesn't have to allow them to take their seats and can expel our Congressman.
Simply put, rights are independent of Government and cannot be violated. Marriage isn't a right.
"Gay people have the right to marry just like everyone else. They just don't have a special right to marry someone of the same sex."
Marriage is not a right and we shouldn't refer to it as a right. The problem we are having is because the people are referring to everything as right.
Rights are inalienable and can not be granted or denied by government. Rights are individual, not collective.
We have a right to freedom of speech. But don't have a right for government to promote or publish it.
We have freedom of religion. But don't have a right to force government to recognize our religion.
We have freedom of assembly but that doesn't mean that Congress has to allow us to assemble in the House chambers.
We have freedom to participate in public meetings but the majority and their representatives don't have to allow us to remain if we are disruptive.
We have freedom to elect members of Congress but the majority of Congress doesn't have to allow them to take their seats and can expel our Congressman.
Simply put, rights are independent of Government and cannot be violated. Marriage isn't a right.
Comments continue below
heleninoz | 8:53 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
It amazes me! People criticise the LDS church for contributing money toward such
an important issue but I would hazard a guess that many of those who are
whinging and whining now, would gladly take the handouts and help that the
Church gives in times of disasters. A lot of money generously given by LDS
members is because they fast meals. They contribute the money not used for food
to the Church. I know how the LDS members give generously not only financially
but physically.
I am a LATTER DAY SAINT; I AM A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS. How thankful I am to have a Prophet to guide me in these Latter Days.
I am a LATTER DAY SAINT; I AM A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS. How thankful I am to have a Prophet to guide me in these Latter Days.
anne | 8:57 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Maybe it will make a difference. Look at them with love and see if it's any
easier to see their frustration.
Just because a person is wrong doesn't mean they can't feel hurt and pain. A little empathy goes a long way. Both directions is even better. :D
You can not change them. No person can change another person. You can be an example to them. Teach them with Christ like attitudes. If they don't want to be taught then just love them because they are God's children and our brothers and sisters.
You know what? I was speaking as a LDS person but this all works both directions.
There is a nice non religious saying "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar". Maybe it's true! It is certainly more kind. And there's a lot fewer hurt feelings. And more listening. My gosh! It just might work!
Just because a person is wrong doesn't mean they can't feel hurt and pain. A little empathy goes a long way. Both directions is even better. :D
You can not change them. No person can change another person. You can be an example to them. Teach them with Christ like attitudes. If they don't want to be taught then just love them because they are God's children and our brothers and sisters.
You know what? I was speaking as a LDS person but this all works both directions.
There is a nice non religious saying "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar". Maybe it's true! It is certainly more kind. And there's a lot fewer hurt feelings. And more listening. My gosh! It just might work!
James | 8:57 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The Church stated "Once again, we call on those involved in the debate over
same-sex marriage to act in a spirit of mutual respect and civility toward each
other"
...isn't it too late? You have not show the gay and lesbian community respect by taking away their civil rights...can you really expect the same?
...isn't it too late? You have not show the gay and lesbian community respect by taking away their civil rights...can you really expect the same?
Dare to differ | 8:58 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Bring on the boycott. Isolation is what Our ancestors sought for in the first
place..... to have a sanctuary to live their religion according to the dictates
of our own hearts, the Lord God himself and not the government of Mamon. We
have plenty of natural resources in gold, silver, oil, coal, iron, copper,
uranium, natural gas. We have some of the world's most beautiful and
pristene scenic wonderlands in our canyons, mountains and deserts. We
definitely have the greatest snow on earth. There's plenty of us to
support our own economy....so go ahead and bring on your boycott......don't
be surprised when you find out just how insignificant you really are because
there are plenty of non Mormons out there who appreciate not only us as a people
but what we have in our state.
James | 8:59 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Danny C. you are wrong! change will happen! Progress will happen! No longer
does society ban interracial marriage, and support segregation of African
Americans and Whites.
Ready or not...here it comes!
Ready or not...here it comes!
alternate | 9:22 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
protest rocky. Funny how he shows up when it's hate time. This time hate
against the LDS church.
Hey, Rocky, maybe you can go after our new President-elect also. Am I not correct that he spoke up in favor of marriage being a man and a woman? Next you best move on to Florida, Arizona and all the other States.
Hey, Rocky, maybe you can go after our new President-elect also. Am I not correct that he spoke up in favor of marriage being a man and a woman? Next you best move on to Florida, Arizona and all the other States.
Anonymous | 9:23 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
People should not take the frustrations of these protesters too personal. After
all they have suffered a huge disappointment.
How would you feel if an outside force tried to influence our states and communities social laws?
Well, actually tons of money came in to Utah to fight a similar law we passed.
And tons of outside money was spent to stop the church and the city from allowing the churches right of way down town.
And tons of outside money has been used to tie up Utah lands in wilderness and tell us how to use it, often preventing its use.
Clinton even set aside the Escalante staircase monument while in Arizona as a political stunt to get Arizona votes, undermining a more substantial discussion going on in our state legislature.
But we should play the bigger part and not be bothered by their defacing our property and using hate to fight �hate�.
After all, voting ones conscience is a form of hate.
How would you feel if an outside force tried to influence our states and communities social laws?
Well, actually tons of money came in to Utah to fight a similar law we passed.
And tons of outside money was spent to stop the church and the city from allowing the churches right of way down town.
And tons of outside money has been used to tie up Utah lands in wilderness and tell us how to use it, often preventing its use.
Clinton even set aside the Escalante staircase monument while in Arizona as a political stunt to get Arizona votes, undermining a more substantial discussion going on in our state legislature.
But we should play the bigger part and not be bothered by their defacing our property and using hate to fight �hate�.
After all, voting ones conscience is a form of hate.
Devout LDS | 9:25 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
This is another testimony to me that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints is the one church that encompasses the fulness of the gospel. That is why
Satan has to work so hard to try to thwart this church but not the others.
In CA | 9:25 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
"This is the moment we as a gay society need to stand up and fight for
ourselves," said Whipple, a gay man who planned to wed in California in
April.
Why do they have to be a separate society? If they are sparate then civil unions should work just fine.
Why do they have to be a separate society? If they are sparate then civil unions should work just fine.
Lisa Young | 9:25 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
There should be a separation of church and state on this issue. Until all LDS
families step up and adopt children outside of their families they have no right
to stop other citizens from forming families and adopting. This has far
reaching social implications. Preach love not social separatism. Accept
differences in others.
Sam | 9:28 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Dear Mormon people. The best thing WE can do, is not even take notice of what
is going on in SLC. Do not give the protesters any notice. We need to quit
blogging here. Just let it go. They will stop. They want us to get all riled
up. Just ignore them.
Numbers | 9:30 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
To Shaun, who said: "The more you hate and persecute......the more
we're going to grow in numbers and stength." The problem with that
idea is that we are not large and strong. It seems that way in Utah, but the
truth is, although the Catholic Church is growing by only one percent a year,
that one percent per year equals the entire world population of the LDS Church.
Imagine adding the entire size of the LDS Church every year! Why do you think
the protestors are attacking us and not the Catholic Church? Because they can
damage us. Beware.
to Aaron: | 9:34 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Aaron was the brother of Moses remember? You might want to read about Aaron and
ponder his situation in the Land of Egypt and out in the wilderness. Remember
his disobedience when the masses began to riot that they wanted a golden calf
and Aaron actually help make it because at the time Moses had been on the Mount
too long and the people began to murmur. So, they convinced Aaron that what
they wanted was right and he bought into to their request only to be ashamed
later when Moses appear and the terrible consequences for the Israelites
followed. Aaron, we are not much different today when we are disobedient to the
Lord. The consequences will follow disobedience. Following the crowd has
usually never been the right path when is goes against the teachings of the
Lord. The Bible is very clear about what happens to those who abuse the sacred
blessing of our bodies where procreation is concerned. The Lord will not be
mocked in this sacred relationship between and man and woman since Adam and Eve.
He loves us but his laws are Eternal and just.
Cherilyn Bacon Eagar | 9:34 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Some points at the heart of this discussion:
1. Many churches were involved.
2. 70% of the black vote influenced the outcome.
3. The media has deceived the public by falsely portraying homosexuality as immutable (i.e. unchangeable; see NARTH.org for supporting social science research).
4. This issue is not about adult sexual relationships. It's about society protecting the optimal environment for raising children - in a family with both a mother and a father.
5. Parental rights were at stake because government-funded schools in countries and states in which same-gender marriage is already lawful are required to, and do, teach the lawful definitions of marriage, including same-gender marriage.
6. Religious liberties were at stake because countries in which same-gender marriage and hate-crime legislation is already the law can fine or penalize individuals and organizations that fall within the definitions of hate crimes statutes.
7. Protests are futile. There were similar protests against the LDS church during the Women�s Lib movement. The LDS church was right in forecasting the depravation that would be heaped upon the family when the protected status of women was �equalized.�
1. Many churches were involved.
2. 70% of the black vote influenced the outcome.
3. The media has deceived the public by falsely portraying homosexuality as immutable (i.e. unchangeable; see NARTH.org for supporting social science research).
4. This issue is not about adult sexual relationships. It's about society protecting the optimal environment for raising children - in a family with both a mother and a father.
5. Parental rights were at stake because government-funded schools in countries and states in which same-gender marriage is already lawful are required to, and do, teach the lawful definitions of marriage, including same-gender marriage.
6. Religious liberties were at stake because countries in which same-gender marriage and hate-crime legislation is already the law can fine or penalize individuals and organizations that fall within the definitions of hate crimes statutes.
7. Protests are futile. There were similar protests against the LDS church during the Women�s Lib movement. The LDS church was right in forecasting the depravation that would be heaped upon the family when the protected status of women was �equalized.�
Gay | 9:35 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The word "gay" used to mean someone who is happy! I am happy, does
that make me gay? Who changed the meaning? Next word on the change agenda is
apparently, "marriage". What will it mean to be married in 10 years?
Probably very little if these people succeed in yet another definition change.
And no, I am not a bigot or a homophobe. I just don't think marriage should
be tampered with. To some of us it is sacred institution ordained by God
himself. If true, then these people's arguements are really with God! But
can they "tolerant" Him? Can He tolerate them is a better question!
Tolerance | 9:40 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Must we tolerate everything? All behaviors? Are we bigots and intolerant if we
can't abide everything and everything? Is no behavior untolerable?
Are they Equal? | 9:43 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
If civil unions are the eqivalent of marriage, why not let gays get married and
you straights can have civil unions? Why would YOU object to that?
Arizona resident | 9:45 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Arizona and Florida passed the same proposition- No protestors here..... WAKE
UP and smell the loss. America wants marriage left between a man and a
woman.
Civil Rights for Christians too.
Civil Rights for Christians too.
Another View | 9:46 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I read on the Church's media site the press release by the Archbishop of
Sacramento. He condemned the senseless targeting of the LDS Church. He noted
that this was a movement by many groups and singling out one church was simply
wrong.
I also must state that I agree that the GLBT community is showing its true "colors" by acting just as bitter and bigoted as they claim all of those that supported Prop 8 were. Show that you deserve what you are demanding. Show that you can understand that people think differently and that a majority of citizens joined together to voice their opinion.
I also must state that I agree that the GLBT community is showing its true "colors" by acting just as bitter and bigoted as they claim all of those that supported Prop 8 were. Show that you deserve what you are demanding. Show that you can understand that people think differently and that a majority of citizens joined together to voice their opinion.
Minority | 9:49 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Gay rights activists are unfairly singling out the Mormon Church calling members
bigots. What of the 70% of African American voters who were "yes" on
prop 8, 50% of hispanic voters, and hundreds of thousands other minorities who
voted "yes." One does not hear and see signs calling these people
bigots. Why is that?
Thank God | 10:02 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Those of you who think it is your "right" to decide who should enjoy
civil rights in the name of democracy" are sadly mistaken. No minority
group (women, blacks, the handicapped, etc.) achieved those rights by a vote of
the people. They were won only through the courts. Gay and lesbian couples are
no different. Thank God for the Constitution that guarantees Equality for ALL.
And thank God for the Courts that enforce it!
Thank-you prop 8 | 10:02 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I am a hispanic Christian Mom of 2 and I invited the missionaries to my home
today after voting yes on Prop 8 Tuesday. I loved everything the missionary
sisters had to say and can't wait to hear more.
The Mormon Church is good people. I will pray for you tonight. May God Bless you.
The Mormon Church is good people. I will pray for you tonight. May God Bless you.
Anonymous | 10:02 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
There is a reason the ballot measure in California attracted so much attention.
If it had failed to pass, other states might well have been forced to alter
their recognition of what constitutes marriage to encompass the whims of a
strange court in California.
Real America has no wish to bow to the fanciful causes promoted by the courts in California.
I don't feel much sympathy for those who are carrying the strange flags, signs, and otherwise running amuck on our city's streets. My suggestion to them: stop watching so much TV; instead, read a fine book, enjoy the beauty of Autumn, take up a hobby, etc.
Real America has no wish to bow to the fanciful causes promoted by the courts in California.
I don't feel much sympathy for those who are carrying the strange flags, signs, and otherwise running amuck on our city's streets. My suggestion to them: stop watching so much TV; instead, read a fine book, enjoy the beauty of Autumn, take up a hobby, etc.
Ing | 10:06 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I thought I'd respond to a couple of comments here...but there's no
point.
What I will say, though, is that from reading the article, it looks like the protesters were well within their constitutional rights--just as the LDS church was in encouraging people to vote for Prop. 8.
What I find a bit suspect is that the protest targeted the LDS church specifically, when none of the other groups that were prominently involved seem to be targeted by anything like this.
Seems to me like the protest is just taking a pot shot at a convenient target. Probably the only group more easily vilified and publicly misrepresented than homosexuals is the LDS church. But all's fair in love, war, and sexual politics, I guess.
What I will say, though, is that from reading the article, it looks like the protesters were well within their constitutional rights--just as the LDS church was in encouraging people to vote for Prop. 8.
What I find a bit suspect is that the protest targeted the LDS church specifically, when none of the other groups that were prominently involved seem to be targeted by anything like this.
Seems to me like the protest is just taking a pot shot at a convenient target. Probably the only group more easily vilified and publicly misrepresented than homosexuals is the LDS church. But all's fair in love, war, and sexual politics, I guess.
Classic comment | 10:06 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Hilarious comment, whoever posted this:
"I guess these folks don't think you should get involved with your community and defend your beliefs."
"I guess these folks don't think you should get involved with your community and defend your beliefs."
Bill | 10:08 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
It is amazing that these protest go on. The Church requested its members help.
Many did and many also supported the other side. The fact remains though that
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is led by a living
Prophet/Prophets of God. When they speak together or seperately they are
speaking for God. Sure the war isn't over yet. We have won one battle and
there are more to be won on this issue. We as members know that the war in
heaven is still be fought here with the righteous against the powers of Satan
and his army. We must continue to listen to the Prophet and heed his warnings.
I stand with President Monson, the First Presidency and the Quorum of the
Twelve. This is the same fight that happened in the Old/New Testament of the
Bible and the Book of Mormon, Another Testament of Jesus Christ. I know that my
Redeemer Lives and is the head of the Church.
Anonymous | 10:09 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I am glad Prop 8 passed, but unforutnately I believe the courts will overturn it
in time. When the courts do overturn it I will be glad that I don't live
in California because distruction will surely follow. God will only be able to
put up with only so much before He says, "Enough is enough."
Let me say | 10:10 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Let me say that I am LDS and I DO NOT HATE "gay" people. But I support
Prop 8 in CA and 102 in AZ because I feel a need to protect myself from
frivolous lawsuits designed to force me to accept a lifestyle that I don't
believe in. Be honest -- The gay rights lobby is pushing the agenda onto the
opposition.
What's the point? | 10:10 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Gays and Lesbians will bus themselves to Salt Lake City and scream and yell and
cause damage. So what? California law will not bend because gays are screaming
in Utah over a Proposition that was past mostly by blacks and other religious
groups. This is nothing more that a dog and pony show for the news media to go
after Christians in the country and they think they can intimidate the church
because they think no one cares about Mormons and could care less is they are
destroyed. Problem with their point of view: The Lord, Jesus Christ, has
promised His church will not be taken from the earth again. " No unhallowed
hand can stop the work from going forth".
Overturn8 | 10:10 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Nobody is asking for special rights.... we are asking for EQUAL RIGHTS
Upset | 10:11 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Prior to these events I was someone who was fine with gay people being allowed
to be married. After these events though I would vote to ban gay marriage. I
don't think people should go and intimidate others because they lost an
election or because people don't agree with them. It has nothing to do
with hate, but a disagreement about marriage being only between a man and a
woman. I didn't vote for Obama, but I would never think to get a bunch of
people rounded up and go out and intimidate people who did vote for Obama. The
fact is that the Mormon church had very little to do with this vote. There were
many Catholics who voted against this. Why aren't they protesting and
initmidating them. There were many African Americans who voted to ban gay
marriage, why aren't they being intimidated. I think they are going after
the Mormon church because they know they are an easy target. The Mormon church
is used to protests. As far as boycotting Utah, does anyone really think that
Utah is a top vacation spot for gay people?
Thomas | 10:13 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I'm so tired of hearing people call this a civil rights issue. Marriage is
a civil issue, but don't equate the LGBT movement to the civil-rights
movement of the African-American community in the 1960s. Homosexuality is not
an immutable characteristic. Moreover, a ban on same-sex marriage is not
analogous with a ban on interracial marriage as those unions are still between a
man and a woman. Stop trying to force your newly-fashioned definition of
marriage on the rest of us. The people have spoken and they don't like
what you're selling. Marriage is, and always will be, between a man and a
woman. Stop trying to alter the fundamental nature of the primary building
block of society to justify your alternative lifestyle.
You don't speak for us | 10:13 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
James,
"Danny C. you are wrong! change will happen! Progress will happen! No longer does society ban interracial marriage, and support segregation of African Americans and Whites."
Will you stop hijacking what my people went through and endured as a result of slavery and segregation. We never asked for any rights that any white person didn't already possess. The only thing we asked for was that we receive those things on the same terms that whites did.
We didn't ask for a new form of a marriage. We only wanted to receive it on the same terms as whites. If a white person could marry a person of the opposite sex than a black person should be able to do so and not be discriminated against based on the race of the two persons.
In terms of homosexuality and heterosexuality this would mean we would be ask that a gay person would not be denied the right to marry a straight woman because he was gay and she was straight. We didn't ask to redefine marriage but only that our race not be a factor in its application.
"Ready or not...here it comes!"
Martin Luther King would never say that.
"Danny C. you are wrong! change will happen! Progress will happen! No longer does society ban interracial marriage, and support segregation of African Americans and Whites."
Will you stop hijacking what my people went through and endured as a result of slavery and segregation. We never asked for any rights that any white person didn't already possess. The only thing we asked for was that we receive those things on the same terms that whites did.
We didn't ask for a new form of a marriage. We only wanted to receive it on the same terms as whites. If a white person could marry a person of the opposite sex than a black person should be able to do so and not be discriminated against based on the race of the two persons.
In terms of homosexuality and heterosexuality this would mean we would be ask that a gay person would not be denied the right to marry a straight woman because he was gay and she was straight. We didn't ask to redefine marriage but only that our race not be a factor in its application.
"Ready or not...here it comes!"
Martin Luther King would never say that.
Brett | 10:14 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I find it funny that members and leaders of the Catholic Church and other
Christian churches, which were heavily involved in the campaign to pass
Proposition 8 are not coming under the same kind of attack. The LDS church, as
well as it's members have a constitutionally protected freedom of speech
which the GLBT community is seemingly trying to protest. Not setting a good
example for yourselves guys. LDS Church is only 2% of the population of
California. The people of AZ & FL have also spoken. Last year was Nevada.
Democracy voice has been heard in the State of California. Twice.
Jeremyinitalia | 10:22 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
To the person posting the holding of the May 2008 CA court decision - you need
to read the opinion more carefully. The court erroneously determines
"substance" of rights with interesting leading words (ex. may,
perhaps, could) As in, this "could" bring about an unequal standard.
Too bad the laws are written equally. Too bad this is an incorrect
understanding of the principle of standing. Their holding was wrong and they
knew it...they acknowledge the problem with the holding but then continue to
muck it up. Another thing...their holding directly contradicts that of Brown v.
Bd. of Education and the Loving v. Loving case (US S.Ct. cases) They apply
general themes from those cases but fail to include the entire, exact holdings.
Sorry Dude...
Rights, Tolerance, and Morals | 10:23 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Some feel laws banning same-sex marriage is discriminating ones
�rights�. Proponents of this theory
have yet to explain the fairness of laws banning prostitution, pornography, and
illegal drugs - restrictions placed on private behaviors. Do these laws also
discriminate?
Most rights carried to extremes conflict with other virtues. Freedom of speech conflicts with the �right� to yell in a library. To bare arms conflicts with the �right� to own nuclear weapons. Is tolerance any different? Should tolerance trump in all cases? Tolerance is highly desirable; it can also be harmful.
Should neighbors tolerate those who label them mindless bigots? Yes. Should neighbors tolerate those who mock and protest their religion? Yes (to me those who label, scorn, mock, and protest are like 3-year olds throwing temper tantrums - not really effective, somewhat amusing, but ya love�em). Should neighbors tolerate same sex couples who live together? Yes (if a church member, the minister, clergy or bishop handles this within their authority). Next tolerance level, should society tolerate same sex marriage? No. While tolerant individually � society sees the legalization of this and other immoral behaviors harmful. God bless us.
Most rights carried to extremes conflict with other virtues. Freedom of speech conflicts with the �right� to yell in a library. To bare arms conflicts with the �right� to own nuclear weapons. Is tolerance any different? Should tolerance trump in all cases? Tolerance is highly desirable; it can also be harmful.
Should neighbors tolerate those who label them mindless bigots? Yes. Should neighbors tolerate those who mock and protest their religion? Yes (to me those who label, scorn, mock, and protest are like 3-year olds throwing temper tantrums - not really effective, somewhat amusing, but ya love�em). Should neighbors tolerate same sex couples who live together? Yes (if a church member, the minister, clergy or bishop handles this within their authority). Next tolerance level, should society tolerate same sex marriage? No. While tolerant individually � society sees the legalization of this and other immoral behaviors harmful. God bless us.
true blue | 10:26 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Let them blame the LDS Church. If this is the price of us standing up for our
beliefs then I'll gladly take it. That being said it was the Californian
voters that passed the law.
Jesse | 10:26 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Bigoted attacks on Mormons for the part they played in the coalition are
incredibly shameful. Granted, their membership contributed large sums of money.
Only a small number of mormons consisted of the total of individuals who
supported Proposition 8. It is discusting the GLBT community of California
would attack and deface sacred etifices (LDS Temple Grounds)in their attempts to
express their displeasure in the democratic process.
Novel idea | 10:27 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
If California doesn't want the gay community (and the vote demonstrates
that while people say they are welcomed they really aren't) then why
doesn't the entire gay community pack up all of their money, businesses and
people and move to Vermont, a state that will welcome them openly and permit
them to marry? That would teach California and rally the gay community to one
state where they would be welcomed with open arms. And while we're
talking, taking the gay business out of Utah and protesting the Sundance
Festival would be a great lesson to Utah, one the people of the state may even
welcome themselves if they sit down to think about it!
Robo | 10:29 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I yahoo searched states with similar type constitutional amendments and found
there are now approximately 30 with the recent additions of CA, AZ, and FL. I
doubt that the LDS church had much sway in say Nebraska or most of those 30
states. Utah? Sure. Idaho? Sure. Arizona and Hawaii? Probably some.
Otherwise, no. Obviously, there are more than just Mormons that think marriage
should remain between one man and one woman.
Southern Californian | 10:31 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
GAY = ANTI-RELIGION
We, the people of California have spoken....twice. If you are gay and want to get married, move to Connecticut or Massachusetts.
Your response to the fair outcome of a democratic process just reinforces why we must hold the line on morals in this country. You are already showing how you want to take the religion out of churches and try to force people to try and accept perversion as truth.
Gay rights means trying to force people to be afraid of worshiping a God who loves all BUT does not tolerate sin.
We, the people of California have spoken....twice. If you are gay and want to get married, move to Connecticut or Massachusetts.
Your response to the fair outcome of a democratic process just reinforces why we must hold the line on morals in this country. You are already showing how you want to take the religion out of churches and try to force people to try and accept perversion as truth.
Gay rights means trying to force people to be afraid of worshiping a God who loves all BUT does not tolerate sin.
Man and Woman | 10:33 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
To James 8:57 | 10:36 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
You should read the history of the Edmonds-Tucker Act which forced the LDS
Church to end polygamy. Hundreds of LDS men were ripped away from their families
and thrown in prison. Federal officials, without search warrants, forced their
way into LDS homes, looking for polygamists. Dozens of LDS Church leaders went
into hiding, including President John Taylor, who died partly because no doctor
could reach him.
There's no doubt in my mind, if the gay and lesbian community had the means, they would pass a similar law, forcing the LDS Church to allow gays to marry in its church, otherwise, the arrests, raids and hiding will return.
If the LDS Church is only delaying the inevitable, how will the inevitable come? By harassment, threats and intimidation, followed by laws which strip away freedom of speech, assembly and religion?
Isn't freedom wonderful? (As long as you agree with the gays and lesbians)
There's no doubt in my mind, if the gay and lesbian community had the means, they would pass a similar law, forcing the LDS Church to allow gays to marry in its church, otherwise, the arrests, raids and hiding will return.
If the LDS Church is only delaying the inevitable, how will the inevitable come? By harassment, threats and intimidation, followed by laws which strip away freedom of speech, assembly and religion?
Isn't freedom wonderful? (As long as you agree with the gays and lesbians)
Get off your High Horse | 10:36 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Lisa Young,
"There should be a separation of church and state on this issue."
Separation of Church and State doesn't mean that any Church doesn't have a right to participate in public square and urge their members to vote against issues that impact the Church. Our right, as an non-profit organization ends at the same line as any other non-profit which is that we cannot support or endorse a candidate for public office or a political party.
"Until all LDS families step up and adopt children outside of their families they have no right to stop other citizens from forming families and adopting."
So you decide what our rights are. It seems to me that you think you are the only person who matters. The majority of Californians don't share your view but you know more than they do because Lisa is so intelligent and her worth is greater than millions who disagree with her.
Unless you adopt every child who is up for adoption you have no right to stop others from speaking out on this issue. Until you feed the millions who are hungry and weary you cannot judge us so descend from your high horse.
"There should be a separation of church and state on this issue."
Separation of Church and State doesn't mean that any Church doesn't have a right to participate in public square and urge their members to vote against issues that impact the Church. Our right, as an non-profit organization ends at the same line as any other non-profit which is that we cannot support or endorse a candidate for public office or a political party.
"Until all LDS families step up and adopt children outside of their families they have no right to stop other citizens from forming families and adopting."
So you decide what our rights are. It seems to me that you think you are the only person who matters. The majority of Californians don't share your view but you know more than they do because Lisa is so intelligent and her worth is greater than millions who disagree with her.
Unless you adopt every child who is up for adoption you have no right to stop others from speaking out on this issue. Until you feed the millions who are hungry and weary you cannot judge us so descend from your high horse.
Jason Berntson | 10:39 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I'm glad that these protesters took the time out of their lives to protest
one of the most blatant violation of Human rights that this country currently
practices. Neither religion nor the government has a right to define what groups
of people can't marry.
If religious organizations want to decide who can and can't marry, they should start campaigning to eliminate the use of government-issued marriage licenses.
If religious organizations want to decide who can and can't marry, they should start campaigning to eliminate the use of government-issued marriage licenses.
Kelly | 10:49 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
1st of all, homosexuals do have equal rights with everyone else when it comes to
marriage. Heterosexuals can't marry anyone of the same gender either. Love
isn't the issue. The government shouldn't be legislating emotions.
2nd of all, does Rocky Anderson advertise, "Have protest sign, will travel"? Good grief. Rocky is attracted to protests like flies are attracted to manure.
2nd of all, does Rocky Anderson advertise, "Have protest sign, will travel"? Good grief. Rocky is attracted to protests like flies are attracted to manure.
Anonymous | 10:50 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
This is not the business of the church. Or its' members. They can believe
what they want. But when they come into the secular world, into the society that
includes me, they have overstepped their limits. Now they are foisting their
baseless nonsense on me. Prior to that, well they can do what they want. Now
it's personal. And I'm not gay. I hope holy hell comes their way.
Wings need clipped. You can believe what you want. If I can't, and
it's because of you, watch out.
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To make an amendment to the California Constitution that is "of substance", the amendment must come from either the state legislature or a constitutional convention. An amendment proposed by the initiative process is not sufficient to make this sort of change to the California Constitution. That's existing California law.
Why then let it on the ballot? Had it been rejected the court wouldn't have had to rule on it at all. That's their preference.
It'll be overturned, and then everybody can spend another 100 million on ads for and against the next one. Think of it as the next economic stimulus package.