People should be given the right to vote for what they believe. If I do not feel
that extra tax dollars going to build a monument would be beneficial for
society, I should have the right to vote no.Also, one more note...
If gays and lesbians are now allowed to marry, what about those polygamists who
would be thrown in jail if they legally married multiple wives. I don't see the
situation much further off. If we allow gays to marry, who has the right to tell
polygamists they cannot marry?Marriage in our society is between a
man and a woman. Not between a man and a man, a woman and a woman, or a man and
Major hate on this blog! For all of you who believe gay people are the
Anti-Christ and will destroy the world - do something REALLY Christian and get
to know just one gay person before making up your minds.Seriously -
ignorance and fear will get you nowhere!
Colored people like me are for Prop 8!! So what? Are u going to manifest in
Watts, Compton?? Go ahead,chances are you will get blown off!!! The Church is
true and its led by a prophet and thats it!! California has spoken and thats
it!!! Tolerance?? Now we can see the real color of some!!Not all of them
thankfully!You already have right so be grateful and maybe a little bit less
ignorant please about the LDS church..In case you do plan to use violence just
remember that mormons do know how to fight,i would if someone messes up with my
family or friends just because of our religion! Be Aware!! Mormons are not going
to be intimidated!This Church will Stand,make no mistake and for me its
worth dying for!
To Trish: I find your statement that what the LDS teaches "will scare the heck
out of you" to be true.Who wants heck to be inside you anyways? Is that
evil?..LOL. The church explains that people who have never heard of Christ will
get a chance to hear it in the Spirit World. That is the most positive message
you can ever know. Others belief that those people are doomed, but the LDS
church shows a positive and uplifting message that they will hear the gospel.
That certainly "scares the heck of me" LOL.
To Trish: African Americans were always allowed to be members of the LDS church.
One of the reasons they were chased out of Missouri was because the church
newspaper condemned slavery. The LDS church members never had African slaves,
but I doubt most churches in the United States can not say that.Elder
Ballard was interviewed once and asked why he believes Blacks did not hold the
priesthood until 1978. He said, and I paraphrase, that it was because the
church needed reach a certain stage of maturity. Today the LDS church is one of
the fastest growing religions in Africa.
To anonymous: Polygomy was done in order to increase the membership in church.
It had practical purpose. The problem with it is that it is hard to get rid of.
That is way it was necessary for the Lord to use outside forces. Polygamy was
always considered wrong by God. Read it. It's right in the Book of Mormon. Read
Jacob chapter 2 verses 27 thru 33. That scripture has always been there and it
clearly states that Polygamy is done only to raise "seed" unto Lord.
Roger: It does't matter who appointed the judges.The bottom line is that
they created law by redefining what marriage was originally designed to be. The
right for women and blacks to vote was decided by legislature and not by judges.
That is why thoses issues are not controversial. Like I said before, a Gay man
can marry a woman and Lesbian can marry a man. They have the same rights that I
do. Redefining marriage through corrupt activist judges is not the way to make
Roger: I read your post. Many people are mistaken that you are going to see
immediate repercussions on this social experiment. Take a look at what has
happen to our public schools when values were removed from it by judges. It use
to be that we worried about chewing gum but now we are worried about shooting
While I live in Utah and don't care for the LDS church or their way of doing
things, Marriage is between a man and a woman. This does not mean that life
partners should not be able to choose who they want to leave their things to
should they pass on, or that they should not be able to visit their partner in
the hospital. But marriage, no that is for a husband and a wife. If people
really want to be upset with what the LDS church does then read of the what they
believe, find out why African Americans where excluded from so many things in
their church. The truth behind what they teach will scare the heck out of you
and you will see why they are so nuts.
when the united states government took utah from the polygomist utahians that
was democracy at work?-"democracy" had an impact on utah in the 19th century and
now a similar "democracy" has no impacted california in the 21st century. you
would all be in plural marriages right now if it weren't for "democracy." you
can believe that the church doctorine changed through divine intervention, but
I'm pretty sure it was at the barrell of a gun. look at yourselves before
casting stones. polygamy was a choice, not a divine right...homosexuality is
inborn, it is not a choice.
I believe those judges were appointed by Republican governors. You can't vote
away rights. We life in a republic, not a pure democracy. Alex: Read
my post. The train has left the station. You just don't know it yet. Gay
marriage is coming, and it will be good for America (I'm straight, married 40
years by the way).
What is wrong about the whole thing in this case is that four activist judges
abused their judicial power and decided to create law. The three descending
judges wrote a scathing letter against.Proposition 8 was about democracy
and the peoples will. The four judges should be impeached for abuse of power.
Marriage is between a man and a woman. If Gay man wants to marry women, he has
that right. If a Lesbian wants to marry a man, she has that right.
Gays have the same rights as heterosexuals when it comes to marriage. A Gay man
can marry a women if he choses. The definition of marriage is between a man and
a human. It should not be based on your changeable desires. www.anotherway.com
if you want to change. You can learn to like or dislike anything. The biggest
lie told is that you can not change what you like. I say the truth does make
you free. Knowing that you can change what you like is the most positive
message you can know.
Lets agree meet on the steps of the Utah State Capitol at 1:00 PM on July
1, 2020. By then, this issue will be resolved, and I will accept your admission
that gay marriage was no big deal.If I'm lucky, I'll be 74, and I
hope you live a long and happy life like me. The arguments of the
opponents of gay marriage are easily turned into the stuff of satire with a
simple question. Will the marriage of Jim and Bob of Arbuckle City, California,
really lead to the destruction of the United States of America? Answer: Of
course, not. The following countries have legalized same-sex
marriage, and straight marriages have continued or increased and divorce rates
have not changed: Netherlands (2001), Belgium (2003), South Africa (2005), Spain
(2005), Canada (2005), and Norway (2008).Its fine to oppose gay
marriage, but dont make a law against it. Dont restrict a persons free agency.
The percentage of people who favor gay marriage will continue to
rise until gay marriage becomes the subject of a well-deserved yawn. The young
straight people will be the yawners as the old fogies of my generations leave
Religion is the root of all evil. It creates division between people all over
the world and yet time over time again people dont see it. Why cant we live and
let live. The world would be a better place if we did do that. Mormons fighting
over one simple word "marriage". I think its stupid and a total waste of time
trying to defend its definition. Gays on the other hand are fighting for the
right to be treated equally as any other american citizen. See the difference
now mormon brothers and sisters? There are gays born everyday and the day will
come when we shall rise to overcome your bigotry.
Right on... how else could you gays be born to this life if God's commandment
that man and man be married, or woman and a woman be married? Maybe you should
change prop. 8 from marriage to partnership or something. Why don't you just
live together and leave marriage alone for a man and a woman! Please go home...
I support Prop 8 because the marriage between a man and a woman has been around
for thousands of years. I don't have a problem with gay couples being together.
I don't support the idea of gay marriage. Also, the LDS church did what the
constitutional rights give them, the right to give the members what views to
take and decide themselves. The church does not force members to do anything.
The gay community needs to realize that other churches were involved in this
too. The gay community and those who oppose Prop 8 are being disrespectful to
the right of free religion.
The church chose this gay marriage issue because Lesbians and Gays are a very
small minority and thus easy to pick on. Lesbians and gays just want to be let
alone. They are all too well aware of how many people regard them.Mormons
are a very small minority who constantly try to recruit new members and yet
number only 12,000,000. Those within the bubble have no idea how unpopular
Mormons are with many citizens.They will now find out.
Change is inevitable. Change is coming. Deal with it.
I protest and boycott your opinion. (It doesn't matter whether or not it makes a
good point -- if it's different than what I think, then I will protest and
Watch the Keith Olberman video on gay marriage (Countdown with Keith Olberman).
He makes a good point in my opinion.
Mormon and Catholic churches now MUST marry ANY heterosexual couple or be sued
because of their arguments for prop. 8.I created a youtube video on
the subject... please search for fightbackon8 on youtube.Their lies
can be legally used against them.
The Mormon church and the Catholic church et. al. unite to persecute another
minority then have the nerve to complain that the persecuted demonstrate to
protest the churches' backing of the stripping of another minorities' rights?
What do they expect? When they attack someone they should expect to be attacked
back, and rightly so. And none of these so called "Christian" churches has any
record of acting in any way like Jesus himself taught. He never condemned
homosexuals, but he sure condemned the rich and when is the last time you heard
any of these "Christian" churches condemn the rich and call for them to be
excluded and denied equal rights under the US constitution and bill of rights in
our supposed secular state? Never, they wouldn't want to lose all that money.
Hypocrites all!The Mormon church has a short memory. They forget a
very similar thing was done to them in the 1800s in Idaho when the Republican
party (as usual) passed a constitutional amendment to remove Mormons'
citizenship because they were disgusted by Mormon beliefs (doesn't this sound
familiar now?). Those rights were not restored officialy until the 1980s.Religion is what separates us from God.
I doubt anyone will read my comment, but I have to say that I don't agree with
homosexuality. I believe it is against the Plan of Salvation, and is therefore
wrong. I choose to use my understanding of gospel principles to guide other
aspects of my life. To segregate the two would be to live two lives (I believe
most people refer to that as being a "Sunday Mormon").I have read
numerous reports and law briefings on the subject of Proposition 8, but my
fundamental support of Proposition 8 stems from my understanding of the entire
Plan of Salvation. I'm sure there are statistics of all sorts to be quoted on
both sides of the argument. When people understand what the Plan of Salvation
is and how each one of us fits into that plan, I think it puts this whole issue
in perspective.I hope there can be mutual understanding on the
matter. This will be a subject most bishops in the Church will need to address,
and therefore must understand. On the other hand, there needs to be
understanding from the LGBT following of why Mormons believe what they believe.
Is it just me or is it rather disturbing that gas prices have fallen 50% in the
past couple weeks?Smells of cheese being dangled in front of a
Actually, more money was contributed to the "No on Prop 8" side than the "Yes".
It's interesting to note this, especially since the protestors keep trying to
use it as their excuse to target the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints. Please educate yourselves first about such an issue, then you can
protest all you want, with correct information.
I suggest you all go to the SF Chronicle website (sfgate dot com). They have
posted the database with all the names of individuals who donate money for and
against Propositon 8, both in and out of the state of California. Then you can
decide whom you want to boycott or support. This is NOT a witch hunt as some of
you would suggest, but a matter of public record. Remember that next time you
donate to such a political cause.
I have posted several messages on these boards, both "pro" and "con." Try to
figure out which are which! You are all so very very gullible!
To the 5:22 commentator, Do you follow God or Mammon? Do you sustain
Thomas S. Monson as the prophet? Are you ok with our enemies having
showed LDS missionaries as house ransackers? With the initmidation of people on
the way to the temple? With vandalism of chapels and the walls around temple
lots? With people being forced out of their jobs because they headed the
counsel of the prophet. I call on all church members to boycott the
California Music Theatre. Any organization that would foce someone out for
following the teachings of their religion has no support from me.
I think that the reason why all the gays people in california are sore they
don't have the right to do what natural. They are just genderly confused, that's
all, they can't chose, but they can change, isn't that what all the crazies that
voted for Obama want anyways? But I also don't think that it right for them to
protest in front of our beautiful temples because we're doing what's right for
our souls. Marriage is and always will be a sacred belssing for a man and a
woman to partake in, to share their lives together and to bring beautiful
children into this world together, and as we all know, you have to have two
different parts to let that happen. It's just not natural for a little child to
have two moms or dads, the natural thing is to have one mom and one dad and I
strongly think that we should keep it that way.
The 52-48% ratio is surely not congruent to the voting demographic of an urbane
and cultured theater-attending community, as illustrated by this resignation.
A theater, of all places, with an invariably active gay and gay-friendly
audience probably couldn't afford to keep him on staff. This company shouldn't
have to suffer because of one staffer's indoctrinations against a participating
minority. Presumably his name was on the financial contributor list, because
there is no reason anyone should have had to disclose their vote to their
workplace. Another matter I am confused about is that while I
oppose Prop 8 ad infinitum, I fail to see how sacrificing your position because
your morals would be considered cowardly, or anything but gracious in your
religious community. Your reaction seems especially paradoxical.
You mean he was forced to resign.I find it disgraceful that a man
can vote his conscience -- and not even that, but for an amendment that PASSED
-- and then be treated like this.I agree with Benedict. This theater
is cowardly.Boycotting season is open.
Mr. Eckern was not fired. HE RESIGNED. I found his apology and self
justification to be very typical of your Mormon double-speak.
No, it was cowardice pure and simple. Do businesses really want patrons to make
every decision based on what side somebody voted on in an election?What was the percentage on this vote -- 52-48? Do businesses that supported No
on 8 want to lose out on 52 percent of their customers? The Yes on 8 supporters
are probably too mature to react in that way. But I suppose what's good for two
ganders is good for a goose and a gander.The fact that this theater
forced an employee who had served them well for 25 years to resign because of
his religious convictions is complete and utter cowardice. Talk about a
religious discrimination lawsuit in the making.
There are plenty of good moral people who will boycott the theatre in
Sacramento. I know alot of people who are boycotting McDonalds, levi strauss,
google and Spielberg movies. It goes both ways. Go ahead and boycott Utah.
I'm sure the conference visitors will more than make up for the sundance
festival and skiing. you don't need their filthy lucre.
Not when they tie up traffic and freeway off ramps have to be closed for three
and a half hours.
I am LDS and voted against prop 8. I view it as a secular matter, not
religious. Because of those views most LDS posters on this site have called me
an apostate, the BYU newspaper ridiculed people like me as "so-called active".
Where is my "sacrosanct" (Scott Trotter's, church spokesman, word) right to vote
as I please? Aren't my personal "circumstances and experiences" (church's
words) valid reasons for voting against prop 8? I see no difference
in the rational for this poor treatment and the treatment Eckern received.
It was a business decision. The theater company wants to sell tickets. Any
supporter of prop 8 will deflect interest, and any removal of said suppoter will
result in more ticket sales. Expect to see a lot of this: the name, hometowns
and workplaces of each financial contributor of prop 8 have been
I would like to congratulate the California Musical Theatre for cowardice on a
level I couldn't even hope to attain.
To the 4:12 comentator, There was a good book on this subject entitled
"Free Speech for Me but not for Thee".
The California Musical Theatre is spineless. That they allowed Eckern to resign
just because he voted, and supported, his conscience, and considering that it
was within his rights to do so, according to the statement by the theater, is
unconscionable.I guess the flip side is for everyone to start
boycotting every project by every Hollywood type that donated money to the No on
8 cause.The only betrayal here is that the California Musical
Theatre tossed Eckern overboard to appease threats of a boycott.Ever
notice how you're only a "Free Thinker" if you share the opinion of the
liberals? If you think differently, they will persecute you until your bones are
picked clean.I guess voting isn't the American way any longer.
I have found a more complete statement by Eckern. I think he brings up many
valid points. "I understand that my choice of supporting Proposition 8
has been the cause of many hurt feelings, maybe even betrayal. It was not my
intent. I honestly had no idea that this would be the reaction. I chose to act
upon my belief that the traditional definition of marriage should be preserved.
I support each individual to have rights and access and I understood that in
California domestic partnerships come with the same rights that come with
marriage. My sister is a lesbian and in a committed domestic partnership
relationship. I am loving and supportive of her and her family, and she is
loving and supportive of me and my family. I definitely do not support any
message or treatment of others that is hateful or instills fear. This is a
highly emotional issue and the accusations that have been made against me are
simply not true. I have now had many conversations with friends and
colleagues,and I am deeply saddened thatmy personal beliefs and convictions have
offended others." There is more, but this is his main point.
Thanks to everyone who is protesting prop 8--an assault on human dignity, love,
and civil rights. Human rights cannot be put up to majority vote. We will
I think that Brother Eckern went to far in apologizing for speaking in favor
of traditional marriage. I think the fact that people can not follow
their religion and maintain their job is very disturbing.
Okay you win.
If everyone took the time and effort to see how a lot of religions have treated
their gay brothers and sisters through the ages, I think it would be apparent to
understand the anger they have towards them. I think this was probably the
"They are acting like children both in the bedroom and on the streets." So, you are not a believer in legal, organized protests?
The California Musical Theatre in Sacramento, California today confirmed that
its Artistic Director, Scott Eckern, a Mormon, resigned under pressure this
morning after gay and lesbian artists began organizing a boycott of the theater
company over Eckern's $1,000 contribution in support of Proposition 8.The Theater's Board of Directors said the organization is "dedicated
only to the mission of providing quality theatrical productions. At no time
does it involve itself in political issues or ever impinge on the rights of its
employees to engage in political activities of their choice." Before
he resigned, Eckern issued an online apology through the theater publication,
Playbill. "I honestly had no idea that this would be the reaction,"
Eckern wrote. "I chose to act upon my belief that the traditional definition of
marriage should be preserved. I support each individual to have rights and
access and I understand that in California, domestic partnerships come with the
same rights that come with marriage. I understand that my choice of supporting
Proposition 8 has been the cause of many hurt feelings, maybe even betrayal,"
Eckern wrote. "It was not my intent."
We shall see, we shall see.
Yes, IMAN, just as soon as all the mindless vandalism, pointless protests,
message board rants and profane placards all fade into oblivion, we will all
return to our previous state of irrelevance.Thanks for noticing!
The majority of Los Angeles county voted to ban gay marriage. That shows
despite the celebrity endorsements and the big bucks thrown to the no campaign,
the majority of Californians are intelligent, moral people who can see through
the lies and deceptions. No raised more money and had alot more TV ads than yes
did. They aired during the top rated shows. Guess what, it didn't work. These
ads claimed gay marriage had nothing to do with schools and yet it was a well
known fact that first graders were taken to a lesbian wedding. Yes on 8 won!!!!
Deal with it.
Step back away from the edge, Gisele ... take a deep breath ... let rational
thought occur before typing any further responses ...I'm halfway
convinced that you are a Yes on Prop. 8 troll, whose purpose it is to make the
"No" side look ridiculous by spouting such utterly inconceivable rhetoric.But ... in the slight case that you are for real ... I suggest you learn
what the separation of church and state is. It is not that generally religious
ideals, morals and ethics cannot be reflected in societal laws. It is that there
is no state-sponsored religion. This country was founded on the basis of
"freedom of religion" not "freedom from religion."No one is
suggesting a "unity of church and state" as you so "flabbergastingly" suggest.
For you to so state is either just another in a string of lies espoused by the
"No on 8" crowd or stratospherically arrogant and a low point on the childish,
inarticulate scale of debate.Thanks for "enlightening" us with your
dogma.(The preceding message was approved by those who don't feel
the need to capitalize random words to express their points of emphasis.)
If California says homosexual marriage is bad, it must be really bad. If they
say it twice, it must be really, really bad!!!!!!
no venting just the facts. They are acting like children both in the bedroom
and on the streets.
RE:Steveyou and your religion are already sliding down th eslippery
slope of irrelevance. It's only a matter of time.
Starting today, gay marriages being in Connecticut. Are you Mormons going to
turn your venom on that state now? Doesn't your prophet worry about the
children there and start another hate campaign towards that state?
"gays simply choose not to grow up. they're stuck in the elementary school
mindset of thinking the opposite sex has cooties. they also choose to throw
temper tantrums when they don't get their own way."Venting is what
goes on here, not exchange of reasonable ideas.
Boycott Utah, The Hate State!
I'm glad we have the articulation police patrolling this thread. The
establishment clause treats the subject of government-sponsored religion. If you
think we're trying to cause the government to establish our religion, you are
clearly mistaken. There are plenty of secular, evidence-based arguments
promoting traditional marriage, and there are plenty of religious-minded people
trying to protect a natural order. Is there plenty of religious fervor in this
debate? Absolutely! How can you separate life from religion?! Not even the gays
can claim immunity from religious conviction! Humans, by nature, are
Over and over and OVER on these Prop 8-related comments, I have seen supporters
of prop 8 proclaiming that there is nothing in the Constitution that separates
church from state--like it is their right to allow their dogma to dictate the
government's actions. I will enlighten you. If there was no separation of church
and state, the STATE would be dictating YOUR beliefs. NOT vice versa.The STRATOSPHERIC arrogance of some of the childish, inarticulate religious
supporters of prop 8 on these message boards is flabbergasting! Do you REALLY
think your religion, a tiny minority itself, would BENEFIT from a unity of
church in state against everyone else's beliefs in all of the religious
institutions in your imagined American democratic theocracy?You had
better thank your lucky stars that this is NOT the way our country is run and be
VERY careful what you wish for.
Same sex marriage will be taught in school if prop 8 is overturned. California
teachers union contributed to the vote on no. Other contributors to the no vote
include McDonalds, Levi Strauss, Southern Cal. Edison, Steven Spielberg, the
good governor of California speaks out in favor of a no vote. Does that not
leave cause for concern? These are people who have a lot of influence on youth.
A good friend of mine is concerned her children will one day have a field trip
to a gay wedding through the school. Sound ludicrist? Well, it happened and
could happen to her children too. How many field trips have you seen a school
take to see a straight marriage? What message did that carry? Of course there
will be sad reprocusions if the gay rights succeed, both morally and legally.
How come all the defacing these people have been doing is not being
considered by the law as hate crimes? Their faces were on TV as they hung their
signs in LA on the LDS temple wall. Not rocket science as to who did it, so why
does not the law enforcement act when appropriate?
gays simply choose not to grow up. they're stuck in the elementary school
mindset of thinking the opposite sex has cooties. they also choose to throw
temper tantrums when they don't get their own way.
A vote yes on prop 8 bans same sex marriage in Calif., a state I left because it
became increasingly hard to watch what was happening to this good state. All
the hate and indecent, immature behavior is coming from the gay community it
seems. They sound furious with religion in general. I remember the fires and
looting in LA some years ago that was very frightening. The lawlessness shown
here is no less frightening. How do they expect us to respect them when they are
so disrespectful to everyone else. I'll not change my religious convictions in
spite of all the hateful mean things that are directed against my faith. It's
pointless. It is the gay plan (read their site on the net) to stir up all the
trouble they can across the nation to try to force their views down everyones
throats. Remember too, that the gay community had heavy contributions on their
side. Shall the majority of the nation march against these people, boycott them
and spew out hate? We're better than that.
This isn't about what they do in private. It's about how their private behavior
affects the public. If it is legalized, children must be taught about
homosexuality as part of diversity. A first grade class was taken to a lesbian
wedding. When have you heard of instruction time being used to attend a
traditional wedding? Use the internet to educate yourself about the reality of
what has happened in Mass. since gay marriage was legalized. The next step will
mandate that pedophilia be taught as part of diversity because you cannot
discriminate based on sexual preferences. they have their registered domestic
partnership CA family code 297.5 which clearly states they have all the rights
of a spouse. The activists aren't happy with that. They won't rest until
they've invaded our schools and can indoctrinate our kids. It was legal here
for only a few weeks and it didn't take long for them to take first graders to
a lesbian wedding. Let the indoctrination begin.
wow such hate on both sides. love thy neighbor as thy self.
People don't decide to be gay or lesbian. They just are.Marriages
between same sex couples and mixed sex couples are recognized in the
Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, South Africa and Canada. There are also Mormon
Temples in the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, South Africa and Canada. As far as I know, not a single same sex couple in any of those locations has
filed a lawsuit demanding they be allowed to be married in their local Mormon
Temple. The Mormon Church remains free to exclude mothers, fathers
children and siblings who don't meet their standards from even attending
weddings in its Temples.
Steve, passage of a law allowing gay marriage may indeed have drastic
repercussions on the continued decline of morality in the world today, but it
will not result in the downfall of the church.If you believe LDS
doctrine, as you say, you should know that the church will never again be taken
from the Earth until the Second Coming.
I predict that years from now, thanks to the Internet, the meticulously
documented and well-circulated list of contributors to the Prop 8 fund, their
hometowns and employers will be looked upon with historical respect from their
descendents because they stood up for what they believed in and feared God more
than the prevailing doctrine of man.
I predict that years from now, thanks to the internet, the meticulously
documented and well-circulated list of contributors to the prop 8 fund, their
hometowns and employers will be looked at as a historical disgrace from the
ascendants of those contributors.
To any of my fellow LDS people here who are unaware of how letting them do what
they want affects us, allow me to sum it up for you.If Prop 8 is
passed, gay/lesbian marriage becomes legal.If G/L marriage becomes
legal, they can be married according to their choice. Everybody with me so
far?Now here's the bad part. Suppose somebody that is LDS decides to
be G/L anyway. Where will they want to be married? thats right. In the
temple.But we wont let them marry in the temple, because is it
against our standards and doctrine.So, suddenly, the church is
discriminating because of something that apparently is now legal.This could spell out a major blow, or even the downfall of the church. THAT is
why I am for Prop 8, because I believe that the LDS church is true, and I do not
want it removed from the Earth.
"Just over a 100 years ago, we were the ones fighting for the acceptance of the
"Mormon" definition of marriage (e.g. one many/many wives)."While I
do give you full marks for having a good point, you are forgetting a key point.
This article is not about them trying to get acceptance (though many of the
comments are), it is about a rally held in Salt Lake. 100 years ago, when the
government ruled that marriage was to be between ONE man and ONE woman, the
church leaders immediately declared that we would obey the law. These people are
not doing the same. They are acting in denial of the law, and refusing to
believe that they could possibly be wrong.
Who wrote:"The LGBT group has gained ground, a 10% gain in popular
opinion in 8 years, judging by the vote in Prop. 22 in 2000 over the Vote in
Prop 8 just last week. That's wasting time? Obviously you will not change your
mind because you are set in your own locked up mind, but 10% of the population
has changed their mind in the last 8 years. Too bad yours is locked up in
age-old mentality."Speaking of locked-up minds, what are the chances
of you changing your mind?That's what I thought. Looks like you are
set in your own locked-up mind.Just because public perception is
changing doesn't make it the right thing to do.Ya know, I'm pretty
sure all those people who refused to board Noah's Ark considered themselves free
thinkers, too.Morality talks. Free thinking walks.
Who wrote:"Wow, 24 pages of comments - obviously the "hot-button"
issue of our day. I gave up reading about/arguing about this topic several days
ago. I'm not going to change my mind (I was for Prop 8) and I don't think I'll
change anyone else's mind on it. Why waste your time?"Waste time?
--- you don't see the change in society. The LGBT group has gained
ground, a 10% gain in popular opinion in 8 years, judging by the vote in Prop.
22 in 2000 over the Vote in Prop 8 just last week. That's wasting time?
Obviously you will not change your mind because you are set in your own locked
up mind, but 10% of the population has changed their mind in the last 8 years.
Too bad yours is locked up in age-old mentality.We'll wake your mind
up when everyone has equal rights. Don't worry.
Re: Free Thinker vs. Ultimate Thinker:Game, set and match to
Ultimate Thinker.Free Thinker Dude, try bringing your "A" game --
if you have one -- next time.
Methinks Free Thinker lost the caboose off his train of thought:1.
"Religion is a personal experience for each and every person. How dare ANYONE
try to define it."Personally, I trust God to define it.2. "We ALL get to heaven in our own way."Data does not compute.
So, now you can get yourself to heaven all by yourself? Please share your
secret. In fact, show us now!Everyone gets to heaven no matter what
kind of life they've lived? I can't wait to share the good afterlife with Adolf
Hitler, Charles Manson, Osama bin Laden and their ilk. Sounds like a great
reward for living a good life.3. "Those that supported this 'ban'
are nothing more than bigots."You don't really seem to be much of a
Free Thinker after all.4. "I have lived in SLC and ALWAYS thought
..."Whoops, I guess that "Free Thinker" label kind of comes and
goes, doesn't it?5. " ... that the 'insistence' of the LDS church
has always been to benefit a few and to protagonize anyone else.Is
"pro-tagonize" the opposite of "con-tagonize"?Moral: Apparently Free
Thinking is worth about what you pay for it.
Obviously you haven't seen what's happening to the religious in Canada.
Ministers are being sued, and in one case arrested, for preaching that
homosexuality is a sin. Religious organizations, such as adoption agencies and
family counseling and the like are being shut down all over the country because
they don't cater to homosexuals. There are lawsuits pending to allow polygamy to
be legal because it's discriminatory to allow homosexual marriage but not plural
marriage. There are many other issues going on as well. Just ask Canadiandy to
repost his list of all the problems arising from this issue.
I've always loved the idiocy of those who claim to be "Free Thinkers" simply
because they have a different opinion than yours.Using their same
illogic, doesn't the mere fact that they have made up their mind on something
mean that they are, by their own definition, no longer free thinkers?
Yo, Free Thinker, how do you like your irony served?Your liberal
abuse of the English language, er, um, "is clearly, the result of a failed
public-education system and the subsequent failure of intelligent parenting."
No biological study has conclusively proven that all gays are born not made and
I doubt there will ever be one.Most religious people like me have
deeply held convictions that cannot be explained to the non-believer. Frankly,
the put downs and "intellectual" arguments posted on here and by others really
have no effect.At the same time, I realize it is important to many
gays to be validated in the eyes of the majority. I really think marriage is
just their chosen vehicle to get to this validation, but everyone wants to be
validated nonetheless.The bottom line then, is how do we compromise
on a solution that gives one group their civil rights without violating the
first amendment rights (remember religious freedom?) of others?Both
sides have to be willing to give some ground here or this will simply escalate
and get uglier. It could easily escalate into violence which won't solve
anything other than more needless loss of life.
Wow, 24 pages of comments - obviously the "hot-button" issue of our day. I gave
up reading about/arguing about this topic several days ago. I'm not going to
change my mind (I was for Prop 8) and I don't think I'll change anyone else's
mind on it. Why waste your time?
If gay marriage is so evil --- why has Canada not gone into the toilet?Because they live and they let live.I can think of a lot of things
that are "heinous" and I don't see the fundamentals taking to the streets and
emptying their pockets to fund a proposition with millions.
To Smart and Final:Truth is cheaper than therapy.
To Smart & FinalWOW. I was under the impression that abusive,
offensive comments would not be posted.Plain & Simple is just
stating the facts.
oops...is protagonize even a word? I don't think so.Should be
The religious right in this country is pathetic. Religion is a personal
experience for each and every person. How dare ANYONE try to define it.We ALL get to heaven in our own way. Those that supported this
'ban' are nothing more than bigots. This is clearly, the result of a failed
public-education system and the subsequent failure of intelligent parenting.I have lived in SLC and always thought that the 'insistence' of the LDS
church has always been to benefit a few and to protagonize anyone else.LDS + CATHOLIC=BIGOT
Everyday it gets a little stinker on here. Whoooy!
To Plain & Simple:Do you have an obsessive compulsive disorder?
Suggest you get therapy...
While the church may not have given financial support itself, it encouraged its
members to do so and was very public about it. A clear case of "Do as I say,
not as I do," if you will. Opponents of Prop 8 will not consider your argument
claiming no financial involvement based on your transparent technicality. I
myself reviewed a very long published list of the individual names and their
associated companies and places of employment for each donation, large and
small, all from Utah in a very public newsletter I subscribe to online.
Protests against these sources and their affiliated institutions will continue,
and those institutions will be held accountable.
To Majority Rules???:Hats off to you that you have read In re
Marriages. I am glad you have such certainty that Prop 8 will be overturned.
It is one thing to overturn a statute enacted by the people, but to overturn the
consitution when the people have used the democratic process to amend it amounts
to nothing more than judicial tyranny. These judges do not have life time
appointments and will come up for reconfirmation. I am sure they remember what
had to Justice Bird and the other two justices she lead who refused to upheld
any death penalty cases.
To Judeges in California:I suppose the point you were trying to make
with the make up of the California Supreme Court being made up of 6 Republican
appointed judges and one Democrat is that the court is conservative and not
liberal. That may be true on criminal cases, but not social issues. Just
because they were appointed by a Republican doesn't make them conservative.
Does the name Earl Warren mean anything to you? He was one of our nation's most
liberal justices to the U.S. Supreme court and was appointed by Dwight
David LeCheminant is quoted in the article as saying that "The LDS Church sees
this as a moral issue." My understanding is that there were also legal concerns,
like the possibility that the LDS church, or any church for that matter, could
be forced to perform same-sex marriages or be shut down. I cannot speak for the
church leaders, but my sense is that if they could have been guaranteed that
they would not be forced to compromise their doctrine, they probably would not
have been so vocal or involved. I'm sure they would have reiterated the church's
stance on the sanctity of marriage between a man and a women, and they may have
encouraged their members to support that position specifically (or maybe not).
However, I think it's also possible that they would have, like they do every
election, simply encouraged their members to exercise their right to vote, first
of all, and second, to vote for candidates and policies that each member feels
best support his or her values. I think there was more to the church's concern
than what kind of marriage is "right" or "wrong."
To Heidi:"The LDS church gave $22 million . . ." Stop the lies; if
you believe you are telling the truth then back up that stuff with a source.
The LDS church did not donate $22 million. Over 19,000 entities mostly
individuals made contributions. The truth is easily found on California's
Secretary of State's website, but most people know it is easier to sit at a
keyboard and spew out falsehoods when facts aren't important.
To Joseph:"The Mormon church's enormous financial support of this
proposition is hurting both." The church gave no enormous financial support.
If you would take the time to check the California Secretary of State's website
you would know that. However if you want to emote do not go there, because
facts get in the way of emoting.
To Nigel UK:Your assertion of " . . . commanded to obery. Every
Mormon bishop in California was instructed to inform you, based on your tithing,
how much you should contribute to Prop 8." How about a source for that one?
Interesting that someone from the UK would be weighing in on California
To True Californian:Wow two whoppers in one post! Your sources
please on the amount you claimed. Also your assertion that the LDS church
dumped money into California from Utah. Tell that to all the coalition members
in California. Better yet look up the California Secretary of State's website
and you can see where the donors came from and how much they gave. Admittedly
that takes more effort than to report misinformation.
To Ekaternia: "I think the LDS church should have its tax exempt status
revoked...It would help our economy. Don't be so limited in your thinking of
helping the economy. Go after all the coalition churchs, and all the churches
addvocating liberal views.
Marriage definitions:Judicial activism is not leadership; it is
judicial tyranny. The California George court has placed our society on a
slippery slope that is steep and icy with the outcome below if it is not
overturned by upholding Prop 8.Group 1; Yes on 8; Narrowest
definition; marriage is the union of a man and a woman as husband and wife.
Source of authority; God, history, all cultures, religions and societies, legal
precednt, common law, all dictionaries.Group 2; No on 8; Broader
definition; same as above plus domestic partnerships. Source of authority; 4-3
vote In re Marriages, acknowledges domestic partnerships as having the same or
nearly the same substantive rights as marriage, but having two names (marriage &
domestic partnerships) they don't provide the same dignity and respect; therfor
impinging on the right to marry.Group 3; Future plaintiffs; broadest
definition; same as Group 2, plus parent to child, sibling to sibling, man to
beast, & multiple spouses. Source of authority; In re Marriage page 6, "The
core substantive rights include, most fundamentally, the opportunity of an
individual to establish. . . and entitled to the same respect and dignity
acorded a union traditionally designated as marriage."
Why are Mormons so surprised that they are the target for those that lost the
right to marry the one they loved. The Church members under direction of Church
leadership orchestrated 70% of the funding and 80% of the footwork. Volunteer
sheets were passed around Priesthood meetings every week. So now the Church can
be proud that they imposed their religious beliefs on an entire state. The
Church can also be proud that they got this vote by distorting the truth and in
some cases outright lying in the Yes on 8 TV ads. And do you believe you have
opened hearts to hear the gospel? What do you think the reaction will be from
almost half of the states population that supported not taking away the right to
marry from couples that love each other? A gospel of love? Hardly. Has the
Church forgotten so soon what it felt like when their constitutional rights were
voted on by the state of Illinois? And yes, allowing everyone the right to
marry was a constitutional right that has been taken away. So now the Church is
just going to have to pay the price for its role.
On photo 8 that accompanies this article there is a sign held up which reads
"When do I get to vote on your marriage?" The answer to that is or was on
November 4, 2008. That is when the ballot measure read that marriage would be
defined as between a man and a woman. It says nothing about between a
homosexual and another homosexual. Therefore the measure was about my marriage
and my marriage won. Get over it. The people have spoken.The sad
thing about this issue is not that any group lost, it is the fact that our
country is turning in a direction that is so foreign to our constitutional
foundation. There are groups that are striving with their might to take away
all rights to stand for virtue and morality. They mock the very moral base that
this nation were founded on and now they want to shut the mouths of those that
are just now starting to push back.You may rally. You may have the
courts overturn again the vote of the people. But virtue is virtue, sin is sin,
and those that are with us way outnumber those against us.
You can't vote to take away the rights of the minority. That's the problem, and
that's why people are stirred. It's not about Mormonism. It's about the policy
of the present LDS leadership. And guess what? It will gradually change as
people fifty and older die off. I'm 62 and think this whole debate
will look very strange in 2020. On July 1, 2020--if I'm still alive at
seventy-four--I'll be standing on the steps of the Utah State Capitol Building
saying, "Look, I told you, gay marriage was not the end of the world, and it
turned out to be good for America."Mormons may still not allow gay
marriage, but it will be legal in most places, maybe even the entire country.
It's legal in Spain and elsewhere, and nothing terrible has happened.PS: I like Mormons and think they are Christians.
Next we should get all the students who hate going to school to march on the
district office to demand they abolish all the schools. And while were at it,
playing in the street is good fun but people tell me I cant, who are they to
tell me how to live my life? I have my rights! Lets vote to let people play in
the street to their hearts content!
You lost. Deal with it like an American, or go to one of the tyrannical
countries like Venezuela where they use arguments and anger like yours every day
to justify their anti-social behavior. They'll be more "loving" and "tolerant"
of you in their own special way.
To all LDS members who disagree with the Church's stance on Proposition 8, think
of this. If the LDS Church does not perform gay weddings in the temples, gays
could sue the Church for discrimination and the temples would be shut down for
not being in compliance with new legislation. The Church would also lose their
tax-exempt status. The Church had to make a stand to prevent temples from being
John Pack Lambert is happy that Prop 8 passed. Let's just keep it at that.
To Deedra, You have not had someone try to steal their identity like I
have. I know what I posted, and I know what I did not post, and I have
never posted that I think this is other than an important issue. How
could I post such and be consistent with following the direction of the First
Holy Crap. Read all these comments from us and it is no wonder we are hated so
much. Just stop it people we are embarassing ourselves. Enough now! The people
have voted let it die!!
Homosexuality is a sin--there is no greater sin, next to murder and adultery.
Oh, PLEASE! John Pack Lambert. You post so often that you probably forgot what
you posted or when you posted. Their are several of you on all blogs, and who
always fight over who is John pack Lambert. Geeze! No one cares who you three
guys are. Perhaps you should take a break and get over yourself.No
on is attacking your family. Your family isn't being singled out from millions
of others... Geeze! You need to get a grip, and just stick with prop-8. And try
The person at 7:33 may be named John Pack Lambert, I do not know, although I
have a very, very, strong suspicion that he is not, however he is not the John
Pack Lambert who has posted over and over and over again on these boards, and
who has been attacked and maligned many times. I am not even convinced
that this new John Pack Lambert knows what this ballot measure is. Is he saying
he has homosexual family members and does not see it attacking them, or does he
think it would legalize same-sex marriage and mean that. I guess that is
consistent with his insitence that the issue does not matter, however his
repetative posting on the issue, including trying to claim the name is not. I have to admit I find it very suspicious that the one other person who
attempts to use a real three name post somehow mysteriously happenes to have the
same name as me.
Homosexuality is sinful? I can think of a greater sin.
This is absurd! I'm the real John Pack Lambert and whomever posted at 2:51 is
being deceitful and rude. I really think we need to relax and worry about the
real issues. (The economy, terrorism, health care.)Like I stated earlier, I
don't see this ballot measure as an attack on my family.
Re: Mary AnnIt may be sad for you, but it is not sad for me. I plan
to stay firm and stand up for what's right. NO MORE GAYS. The medical world
needs to figure out what to do with these people who have weird sex with the
same sex. It make NO SENSE--THAT's THAT!
It is interesting to see the Gay comunity show their true colors.
Sad and very sad is what we have become as LDS. I think a little better tact
could be used. It is sad that lay people comment without any intellegence, it
makes us look bad. Right message, wrong people. I would feel it appropriate that
the Prophet speak up about this and give it straight. I am soooooo tired of John
Pack Lambert and the such. Lets hear the skinny form the source and maybe quell
Ohhh everyone is going to boycott Utah. Give me a break, for every boycotter
there are 3 wanting to come see what Utah is all about. Go ahead, stay away, I
won't lose sleep over it. Tourism will be just fine. I bet we see an increase
because of the controversy. Most people don't even give credence to boycotts. I
don't have to accept homosexuals, I can tolerate them but I don't have to accept
your values just like you have the right to refuse mine. Don't cry fowl when you
all preach the same thing, just with a different face. You cry about how your
rights are tramped on and then jump on the religous trampling bus and dish out
your own. If a church wants to stand up for their beliefs, it is no different
then your religious organizations that stand up for your Homosexual beliefs. We
have the right to decide what we want in our state. When and if it ever gets
defeated in ours, I won't shed a tear over it. I just won't accept it.
I've seen many posts touting the fact that the majority has spoken and get over
it...May I remind some that the will of the majority, if unjust, is
still unjust. Southerners overwhelmingly supported Jim Crow and segregation,
but the activist judges on the Supreme Court overturned the will of the majority
on constitutional grounds. How is this any different? I just read
the 100 page decision of the Cal. Sup. Ct. and it puts this issue squarely
within the fundamental right of marriage acknowledged in the Cal. state
constitution. From a legal standpoint, it seems Prop 8 does nothing more than
resurrect Prop 22 from 2000. It will be overturned again and rightly so -
popular will holds no trump card over fundamental rights...
comes that my son marries a man...it will be the END..the END...riders on the
Yes, Michelle -- you quite possibly are the only one in the entire world with
love for everyone. (Sigh -- you must be so lonely up there in your ivory
tower.)I thought I loved everyone, but have since learned from
recent protests that if my opinion is different from somebody else's then my
feelings must stem from hatred not from a greater love.Personally, I
love people who make non-sensical declarative posts. (So, Michelle, wink, wink,
you wanna get together later?)
In the Words of T.I. .........Stop looking at what you ain't got and be thankful
for what you got!
No, you're not the only one. I'm an old guy and married a long time. Live and
let live is my philosophy Gay marriage will be good for America.
If you oppose gay marriage, then so be it, but don't try to shove your opinion
down other people's throats. There is nothing wrong with being gay and having a
loving gay relationship. I'm not gay, but I follow the philosophy of
live and let live. I've been around 62 years and married forty years, and I've
found that works best. Quit concentrating on what your neighbors are
doing in the bedroom. As long as they are consenting adults, it is none of your
Boycott all Tourist spots In Ca + Utah !!! Hit'em where it hurts in the pocket
"What are the gays doing now?"Protesting centuries of hatred towards
people like them. Prop 8 just happens to be the backdrop.
Times change and laws change. I hope gay marriage is one day accepted by all
people. The posts on this board make me sad. I strongly believe in loving
everyone. I guess I might be the only one . .
By all means - feel hurt, protest, live whatever lifestyle you like - BUTDon't try and normalise your inappropriate behaviour by covering it in the
cloak of respectability by using the term 'marriage'. That has been reserved
for the relationship between a man and a woman.If you wish a term - go for
it - be creative - come up with your own - one that clearly describes to all
your situation and DIFFERENTIATES it from the current understanding of marriage.
It is not the same and never will be.This is not mean spirited - it is a
'stand up and fight' reaction in response to a proposed erosion of something
that is valued in society.
the funnest part about being a yes on 8 supporter was when we got to follow
every voter into the voting booth and put a gun to their head and threaten to
shoot them if they didnt vote yes. Say all you want, the people spoke and said
no to gay marriage without threat or coercion. What a the gays doing now?
Threatening. What a bunch of hot air.
popular culture is based on hypocricy, excess, addiction, and regret and the
elimination of freedom. It's too bad when we have to bow to secular
Hey, Valentina, if your governor Ahnuld had any gravitas, he would have made a
stand before the vote. If the proposition was unconstitutional, they should have
not let it on the ballot.You have judges writing their own laws,
saying something is contrary to the state constitution. So the constitution is
legally amended by the vote of your citizens -- and now you want to hide behind
your liberal judges again?Talk about subverting the Constitution.What wooden, second-rate actor are you going to elect next? Keanu
religion is based on hypocricy and a reduction of civil rights. It's too bad
when we have to bow to religious fanatics, like the mormon church.
Are they going to the headquarters of the NAACP to protest next? After all, 75%
of black voters voted in favor of Prop 8.
To Reply at 3:19pm.Read more articles! They have attacked people,
vandalized churches, ect.This is what you call freedom of speech?And that is all I have to say about that!
Any of you remember how the civil rights of the FLDS were trampled in Texas. I
dont agree with polygamy, the laws that stand with polygamy and same-sex
marriage are fine with me. Just want to know where all these equal rights
protesters were when the FLDS civil rights volition occurred. Seem the streets
were pretty quite then. Is just that it is ok some civil right volition take
place, just alone as they are ok with you.
Violence? The article I read said the demostration was peaceful. Regardless of
where you sit on the Prop 8 issue, I for one am still extremely grateful to live
in a country where freedom of speech is preserved. That's all I have to say
Just like babies they through a "HISSY FIT" They claim to be tolerant. Only
Tolerant of anythng they agree with.It just shows what a bunch of
babies they are. They will go away soon enough.
The Gay Protest is getting pathetic. They have come to violence to get what they
want. I have to agree that they have ticked a lot of people off. Those who have
been victimized by their violence and tantrums are better people for what they
have gone through. Gays are not earning people's respect at all.
To Fact vs. MythsWhat part of No didn't we understand? The part
that says that you and the millions of dollars that Mormons donated shouldn't be
able to amend a constitution to ALLOW discrimination. Talk about going
I don't know about you but our Sacrament meeting was packed on Sunday. No empty
Hey Bored, I can't think of a better thing to do on any night than
standing up for Civil Rights. In fact, I couldn't think of anything better to do
on Saturday night, which is why I was out marching in LA with thousands of other
people, gay and straight, who think that taking away the rights of American
citizens is absolutely wrong. Even our Republican governor told us
not to give up and expect it will be deemed unconstitutional.
Hey, Jill, I'll see the cancellation of your family trip to Utah and raise you
by aborting my family's planned trip to San Francisco because I don't want to
subject my kids to the "All's well in Sodom and Gomorrah" attitude.Now, have we really accomplished anything?I guess "Wow" is in the
eye of the beholder.
Re: Active Citizen.The world is a dangerous place because of the
type of people who supported prop 8.
I did not post the 1:54 comments. I take major, major issues at people using
my name in making posts. This is very disturbing to have others steal my
identity. I have to admit that this is the only race I really deep down
cared about. Prop 8 passing is what makes it so I am happy right now.
Jill, please don't cancel your holiday vacation to Salt Lake because you don't
want your kids to be around that kind of narrow influence. I'm sure the bigoted
protesters will be long gone by then!
Yo, Shilo, I know exactly what I said, but you apparently don't know what you
read.You took exception with: "Gays already are currently allowed in
the congregrations. Sexual sin -- be it gay or straight -- will never be
acceptable. The day when sexual sin is allowed will never arrive."Where did I say that sinners aren't allowed in the congregations? Nowhere. Of
course the congregations are filled with people who have sinned in every
different kind of way. What I said was, "The day when sexual sin is allowed will
never arrive." Sexual sin will never be condoned. In the same way, if adulterers
want to protest around LDS Church buildings because they have been
excommunicated for simply following their natural desires -- I would say the
same thing ... it will never be condoned or accepted just because of protests,
etc.The Church doesn't change its stand based on the precepts -- or
political correctness -- of man. It never has, it never will. That's all I'm
sayin'.You're preaching to the choir.
People have a right to protest. The responses to this story show how we all
want to defend ourselves and many are spiteful. Is that what we're taught at
church? I must belong to a different church because mine, from its top leaders,
tell us to be tolerant and kind and not mean-spirited. I'm LDS and support Prop
8 but I don't wish the protestors any ill feeling, even when it is against the
church I love and believe in.
You missed the point of To Heidi's comment. He or she said that homosexuals are
already welcome in the congregation, because Heidi claimed they weren't. He said
that the sin would never be changed to something acceptable, not that they
weren't allowed to come to church. It works the same as any other sin. The
behavior is wrong, but the people committing the behavior are always welcome.
It's just that they can't attend the temple unless they're doing their very best
to control those behaviors.
"The Catholic Adoption Agency had to shut their doors in Boston because
they lost their funding and tax exemptions for refusing to allow gay
adoptions"They chose to shut their doors. They did not lose their
funding. If they stayed open, they needed to do same-sex adoptions because they
take public funds.I think this is the type of "erroneous
information" lds.org said was coming from the no on 8 side.
To Roger Carrier,You said, "I dont see for the life of me how gay
marriage hurts anybodys marriage."That's understandable. If you
can't see how changing the definition of marriage affects society and the
fundamental institutions of marriage and the family, then fine, but you are the
last person who should then speak for anybody else's marriage. No offense. You also say, "If a church or person doesnt believe in it, then fine.
But dont pass laws against it."If marriage is defined as between a
man and a woman, being gay does not exclude anyone from that definition. No law
has been passed against gays marrying. But with how much debate there is on the
matter, apparently an ammendment clearly defining the law was very necessary.It is done. This is yesterday's news. It just proved to be a matter of
democracy running its course. Now that it has, it is clear that the decision
upholds marriage as being between a man and a woman, without discriminating
against any civil rights. Other unions may still lobby for benefits that
government may have attached to marriage (But government benefits don't define
Correction: Those that voted for Prop 8.
LDS Father of four young children in Utah. Gays have the right to marry who
they want, just like the rest of us. Religion has no right in Voting stations.
Some of you that voted against Prop 8 will be denying some of your own childrens
gay rights, you just dont know it yet. And when it happens, you just may regret
it. Besides, our falling economy, housing market, crashing dollar,
loss of jobs, and much more crisis should be a greater issue than just another
American way of trampling over peoples rights. Let the gay community be. Lets
worry about our country and our own problems in our OWN homes. And nothing more.
The ignorance continues ---To those who label the Supreme Court of
California to be liberal judges, read up... These were the judges who
overturned Prop 22.Ronald M. George, (since 1991), appointed by Gov.
Wilson; elevated to Chief Justice in 1996 Marvin R. Baxter, (since 1991),
Associate Justice; appointed by Gov. Deukmejian Ming W. Chin, (since
1996), Associate Justice; appointed by Gov. Wilson Carol A. Corrigan,
(since 2006), Associate Justice; appointed by Gov. Schwarzenegger Joyce L.
Kennard, (since 1989), Associate Justice; appointed by Gov. Deukmejian Carlos R. Moreno, (since 2001), Associate Justice; appointed by Gov. Davis Kathryn Mickle Werdegar, (since 1994), Associate Justice; appointed by Gov.
Wilson Makeup of the CourtSix justices were appointed by
Republicans (George, Kennard, Baxter, Werdegar, Chin, and Corrigan) and one by a
Democrat, Moreno. - - - -To LDS who feel singled-out and
Mormon-bashed --- (sorry) --- in the same vein that you feel the democratic
process is in place by voting ---* marching is also democratic* taking the issue to court is also democratic* voicing our opinion is
also democratic* calling those who sponsored the issue in a free debate
is also democratic
I live in No gay marriage California. On the front page of today's paper there
was a color picutre of the protesters at the Oakland Temple. It said that their
protest closed nearby offramps for THREE AND A HALF HOURS. How stupid can they
be thinking that ticking off thousands of people who can't get from point a to
point b because of their childish ranting and ravings, is going to help their
cause. Last night on the news it said a different protest also disrupted
traffic. Keep it up. We are not threatened by you. We KNOW who is on our side.
How many of you straight people went through a phase when you were in elementary
school and hated the opposite sex? Normal people grow up and mature and outgrow
that mindset. How many of you threw a temper tantrum when you were small
because someone said "no" to you? This just proves how immature the gay
population is, both sexually and emotionally.
"FaithNoMo | 11:33 a.m. Nov. 10, 2008 It's great to see that the church is
being called out on the issue. Don't forget that our government is set up to
protect the MINORITY. You love the majority when you are part of it."Hey, "FaithNoMo", no, in fact our gov't is NOT set up to only "protect the
minority". If it did that then the voice of the majority would mean nothing.Hmmmm....strangely like the pro-gay crowd is trying to do now. But!, I
digress...So what IS the government established to do? They are to
enact laws as voiced by the MAJORITY of the people with the Constitution being
our guide and, no, nowhere in the Constitution does it say that allowing
homosexual marriage is a God-given right.
to Michelle...very good and an astute observation. Unfortunately I doubt any
will listen. You have to feel sorry for these angry and misguided men and
women. When they chose to be gay or homosexual they chose the
consequences..that's the way it is. Their lifestyle is not acceptable by the
majority and if they want to continue to live that way they may have to go back
to their closets. We don't want to see or hear about their escapades. It is
nauseating and we want to protect our families from this type of behavior. We
don't hate them, we just do not accept their choice to live against God's will.
Hopefully they will simmer down and we can start living our lives once again
without fear or their rage and behavior. That is my prayer.
I'm actually glad that this is happening because it is opening many eyes that
have been blind.
To Heidi in Wonderland,You said, "Gays already are currently allowed
in the congregrations. Sexual sin -- be it gay or straight -- will never be
acceptable. The day when sexual sin is allowed will never arrive."If
sinners are not allowed in the congregations, there will be NO CONGREGATION!I am a sinner. I don't struggle with a sexual sin, but the sins I do
struggle with are no less sins. I am in the congregation.The Church
is supposed to be a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints!Gays are welcome in the congregation. So are adulterers. Liars are also
welcome. So are thieves. Even the accessory to murder, Saul of Tarsus, was
welcomed in the ancient congregations! Jesus ate and drank and socialized with
such people. The Pharisees condemned Him for keeping bad company. He replied
that His ministry is specifically to the sick and the lost sheep of the house of
Isreal: the sinners--the sexual sinners, liars, theives, prostitutes,
hypocrites, proud, arrogant, adulterers, fornicators, and even blasphemers!ALL sinners are welcome into the congregation. ALL! Anyone who tells you
otherwise is NOT teaching Jesus' doctrine!
Is it because domestic partnership doesn't sound as good as "Marriage?" All
"rights" are equal under the domestic partnership laws of 2003, except you can't
go get a marriage license. Do you need it to define your "love?" Or do you
need it to rationalize or mainstream your lifestyle? The lds church has NEVER
come out against domestic partnerships or the rights of gays UNTIL they wanted
to redefine Marriage...tolerance? We've been doing it all along.
All the protests in the world won't change the truth. Homosexuality is sinful,
but it is also unnatural, illegitimate and destructive to society. God fearing
people everywhere need to stand up for the truth. This conflict will continue
until the second coming. Making gay marriage legal is one more step in forcing
the gay agenda on the rest of us. One of the arguments for passing prop. 8 was
that it would lead to conflicts and a loss of religious freedom. They called
this a big lie! So it passes and what do they do? Protest at churches thereby
attempting to restrict our religious freedom of attending church! Our way of
life is at stake, and our freedom to live our religion and teach our children
correct principles. No matter how hard they try, homosexuality will NEVER be
natural, legitimate and accepted by God.
So what about Florida, Arizona,& Arkansas? Florida and Arizona stopped gay
marriage. Arkansas banned them from adopting. I bet it was all the mormons in
Arkansas, dirty little rats. Fact: The majority (as witnessed in
the recent and past elections) are against gay marriage.Sure the
mormons helped pass Prop 8, but people still had to go to the booths and vote
and they did. NONE of the ads were deceiving or lies, let's just say they were
for the sake of arguement they were, welcome to the political arena.California Native, California Livin'
If the anti-8 crowd were smart, you'd shut up and stop protesting.Why?You "claim" you only want respect and to be treated as equals
and that was why you wanted to be able to legally marry. "Treat us like you
treat others!", you screamed.How can you not see that after the
citizens of CA voted "no" against gay marriage earlier (in 2002?) and then again
"no" last week that your friends and neighbors legally, democratically voted
against your wishes and now the way to garner respect is to quietly,
respectfully abide by the wishes of the MAJORITY of your friends and neighbors?
It's like arguing with my wife; when I'm wrong, the more I argue the
more respect she loses for me. How can she not?And so it is with
It is in the Bible. God put Adam a(MAN) and Eve a (WOMAN) together. The animals
get it and they don't even read. What is natural is for a man and a woman to
marry. Come up with something else if you want to that can tie you together,
this concept is already taken. People who live together (without a commitment
of marriage) don't protest they should have the same rights as married couples.
I am sure there is something you could think of with all that energy you are
putting into fighting for whatever you think are your rights.
I read out church's information on being singled out by gays, and read world
newspapers about the same. I think we're getting what we deserve.
Wow, I cancelled my family's holiday vaction to Salt Lake. We lost some
deposits. But I don't want my kids to be around that kind of narrow influence.
The boys have a lesbian aunt who they love and respect. We're going to some
other place, out of respect for her, too.
You know up tell know I have defended the LDS church and there right to engage
in the process but I am sick of the excuses, how cares those that did so that
where not LDS are just as wrong but it does not justify the LDS voters
behaviors. So say what? you want call me a hater you know what I dont care
anymore, I am tired of defending you and your hateful self righteous behaviors,
so if that makes me a hater, how cares? you destory peoples lifes sorry but
thats hate. deal with it.
Several of my companions were gay. Im not. I accepted them, they never hit on
me. I like to live and let live. Im sure they'll be gay all their lives....they
told me they never liked women.
Im gay. Im mormon. My family loves me.
OK, after some research I found out that the Supreme Court undermined the voters
in Massachusetts by voting 4-1 in favor of gay marriage.WE need to be
voting against the Supreme Court by having so much power when the people have
Poor picked on mormons.....you're so innocent. Just like the wolf crying out
after trying to eat little Red. Get your hands off my rights. Wow, looking
over slc papers and tv.........you have to dig deep cause anything gay or anti
mormon is hid a thousand pages back...nice whitewash you all do there.
Good Times in Salt Lake wrote:I have spend the last 20 min reading
hundreds of comments for and against prop 8...I agree whats done is done...and
how is this comparable to the Civil Rights movement back in the day.. Last time
I checked I didnt get to choose to be born an African American...Being gay isnt
a race of people..or maybe I'm just a silly ChristianPeace and Love
Would you please clarify what you meant about gays? Nobody is saying
that gays are a different race, but the two groups with the longest history of
discrimination are people with darker skin and gays.If you are a
Christian, please don't link your religion to a political issue. You can be
against gay marriage but don't force your opinion down the the throats of
others. Sorry if I misinterpreted your letter. Thanks, Roger, a
straight male, married 40 years. Gay marriage is no threat to my married. Is the
marriage of Bob and Jim off in Arbuckle, California really going to destroy the
For those LDS members who have, and will continue to rail against the prophets,
please go read Helaman 13:25-26, 38 and see what the Prophet Samuel had to say
regarding your behavior.Enough said.
30 states have marriage protection with 20 left to go. I hope the next election
in 2 years we see more states following California, Arizona and Florida in
passing marriage protection. States need to realize that the only way they will
have true protection against the homosexual onslaught on marriage is to follow
the democratic process and pass laws. This is "peaceful" war with no compromise.
Either they win or we "the people" win. The people of California voted and won
marriage protection and now the opposition once again is attempting to erase
democracy and silence the voice of the people by going to the liberal courts.
This will be an on-going fight from state to state until marriage and moral
values for society are protected across the entire nation.
I can just imagine the families in Massachusetts wishing they had a bigger LDS
population in their state and regretting how much GUFF they gave the church for
building the Boston temple!Now their kids are being taught homosexuality
in school.The Catholic Adoption Agency had to shut their doors in Boston
because they lost their funding and tax exemptions for refusing to allow gay
I bet that most people reading this have never met someone who is gay. To leave
peoples rights up to the vote of people who have probably never talked with or
met anyone who is in the gay community is horrible. Does anyone else see this.
And for all those people who think being gay is a choice... How do
you know? are you gay? Even though I am gonna say that it is not a choice you
will not believe me. Growing up through school was hell, I lost a lot of
"friends" who later realized I was no threat to their lives. I tried
so hard to be like everybody else.And just so you know... I was
raised LDS. I was baptized LDS and held the priesthood. I really liked going to
church, until one day my bishop told me I was an abomination and had to be
fixed. How would that make you feel? Would you still "CHOOSE" to be gay after
that?I just hope that some of you could get a better understanding
of what its really like before voting on their lives. Have you been affected by
any of the 16000 gay marriages?
I laugh at the No on 8 argument, "I don't think God descriminates." So let's
say I'm a murderer, given your logic, he doesn't discriminate against me and
wants me to continue on right, cause he doesn't discriminate... :| murderer,
non murderer, we're all the same right?...
But I have to side with the church and not just this church because aren't we
all suppose to stand and do what we think is right..these guys should be no more
stereotyped or generalized than what the protestors are doing to the members.
Many lds members died along with members of other denominations so that the
sacred vote could be used. There are good people here who are using that sacred
right to vote..the protestors had the same opportunity to raise funds for the
vote. The vote worked for a form of non-violent protest in itself as to which
way the people wanted things to be ran in the election of the first african
american and i am sure there were some members who voted that way with their
sacred right...you have a right to protest but no right to intimidate!
Gay people protesting against people in Utah for how people in California voted.
I get it now. It makes perfect sense.
FactIn Mass. children are read fairy tales about princes marrying princes
in public schoolsParents by law CANNOT opt out of gay lifestyle
instruction nor are they notified ahead of time.Catholic charities
in Mass no longer place children for adoption because the gov't said they MUST
place children in gay marriages. Rather than betray their morals they will
adopt no children to anyone.This demonstrates the demands of a few
usurping the rights of many.Gays in CA still have the same rights as
married couples. Read it for yourself CA Family code 207.5 THIS PROTECTION WAS
NOT TAKEN AWAY UNDER PROP 8.During the few weeks gay marriage was
legal, a first grade class was taken on a field trip to a lesbian wedding.
Children were being indoctrinated and it didn't take long at all until it began.
What people fail to understand is that this issue is not about gay
relationships. We know they're not going anywhere. If gay marriage
was legal, it would be required to be taught to very young kids as part of
diversity.Can you imagine a 9yearold boy who doesn't like girls at
that age, being brainwashed and told he is gay because he doesn't like girls?First graders in SF WERE taken to a lesbian wedding. They should be in
class learning to read and write instead of being indoctrinated.Gays
in CA still have all the rights of a married couple. READ CALIFORNIA FAMILY
CODE 297.5 Those rights were not taken away. Just the right to call it a
marriage and require it to be taught in schools. The people in CA
have TWICE said NO to gay marriage. WHAT PART OF NO DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?
Yo, Heidi,Sadly, your protests likely will have an eventual impact.
I have no doubt that gay marriage will be made legal within the next 10 years --
if not much sooner. But this is nothing to brag about. Morality continues to
erode the ideals of what this great country was founded on. The ideals of the
majority are dismissed to offset the risk of offending the minority -- it
doesn't matter who's right or who's wrong or whether the country as a whole
benefits.At least know a little bit about what you are criticizing.
African Americans were always allowed in the congregations and allowed to be
members. The prophecy always was that they would one day receive the priesthood.
That day arrived.Gays already are currently allowed in the
congregrations. Sexual sin -- be it gay or straight -- will never be acceptable.
The day when sexual sin is allowed will never arrive.
I find it interesting to see an American Flag flying in the picture. Basically
you are protesting one groups rights to voice an opinion because it is different
than yours. So what I am really saying is put down the American Flag if you can
not and will not tolerate others rights as Americans. Your right as an American
is strictly Civil that does not include Marriage.
Hey all you Mormon haters out there did you realize that of all the people that
voted For Prop 8 not all of them were mormons. Interesting I guess it is not
just the LDS people that oppose gay marriage. I love how whent he public votes
and this is twice now in california the people that lose try everything they can
to win. Sorry people you lost, now get over it and try again sometime down the
road when again it will be voted that Marriage is between a Man and a Woman.
Keep crying and keep protesting cause everything you do is not going to change
the fact that the sanctity of marriage is between a Man and a Woman!
Religous Bigotry. Please don't be fooled into thinking it is anything else. Do
they really believe in the time honored tradition of marriage and want to be
included in it? This is anti religion, and being able to project there agenda on
It's great to see that the church is being called out on the issue. Don't
forget that our government is set up to protect the MINORITY. You love the
majority when you are part of it.
The Mormons passed this proposition in California. I didn't know Mormons had the
majority vote in California. How come it is a blue state? It was just wrong the
Mormons sided with the majority on this issue. How dare them have an opinion on
this issue or take action at all, the Gay community has never express any
opinion or taken any action against Mormons.
you guys will never tire of patting yourself on the back.
When struggling to understand this whole situation,and believe me, it's been a
struggle, a good friend of mine told me: "It comes down to this, do you believe
that the prophet receives revelation? He sees the bigger picture, so we must
have faith and hope that there is a reason we have been called upon to take a
stand on this issue."For those of you who are LDS and struggling to
accept the stand our leaders have taken, take a moment to search the scriptures
and your soul for answers. We do not always understand why we are called upon to
do certain things, but need to move forward in faith with the understanding that
the Lord's purpose will be revealed to us in His time.Surely, the
Lord could resolve this issue in the twinkling of an eye if he so desired.
There must be a reason why we are all being called out of our comfort zones to
action.I do realize that feelings are raw on both sides of this
issue (I have a gay uncle myself), but spewing forth hate and condescension
toward one another will not solve anything.
how the LDS church with 800,000 members in California, of which only half voted.
Convinced 5.5 million voters of all faiths to vote in favor of Prop 8. I think
the angry gays are looking for a scapegoat to protest against and picked the LDS
church for some reason. They should march on their own state to other religious,
or non-religous groups who voted for Prop 8. The numbers just don't add up, and
either does the financial support. I guess the majority of Californians see the
family unit as a man+woman=children. That's also gods plan for us too.
The Gay agenda groups is a mean spirited operation, they use the court system in
hopes they can get a liberal judge to force law on the majority. This kind of
underlying guilt can make for ugly and cowardly acts towards people that morally
don't justify this behavior. People in this world make choices, we cannot spin
right and wrong just to make our choices easier on the soul.
CIVIL RIGHTS...OKMARRIAGE....MMM...NOPE...Marriage was establish BY
GOD, NOT THE HUMAN KIND!!! MUST BE MAN AND WOMAN...IF YOU DONT LIKE IT...TALK TO
GOD!!!You'll have an answer!!!
Yawn. This is so lame. The voice of the people in CA has been heard. UT had
very little to do with this mess. Let's stop crying and do some good in the
world. Go volunteer at a charity and forget about yourself. You might realize
your life is not so bad.
Really? I don't think so. A few members will leave, I'm sure, and those of us
that stick with the church over the next century or so will be put through the
refiner's fire, but in the end, we'll be much stronger for it. Don't
forget that your prophecy about the church crumbling goes directly against a
revelation by a prophet of God: "Every previous gospel dispensation
has drifted away into apostasy, but ours will not. Some individuals will fall
away; but the kingdom of God will remain intact to welcome the return of its
head-even Jesus Christ. While our generation will be comparable in wickedness to
the days of Noah, when the Lord cleansed the Earth by flood, there is a major
difference this time. God has saved for the final inning some of His strongest
children, who will help bear off the kingdom triumphantly." -Ezra T. BensonWhich prophecy do you think will come true, the one made in the name of
God, or the one made in the name of homosexual marriage? My bet's on President
The church stood up for morality. The world riots against it. This divide will
become greater and greater. Love the sinner, not the sin.
This is great! Finally, we may see some who have been on the sidelines of the
church have to take a stand. If they stand up for what is right, liberty
prevails in their life; if they stand up for what is wrong, a loss of liberty
occurs, including perhaps their dissafection from church! More freedom and less
liberty! Battle lines are being drawn! Doing evil in the name of liberty is the
"Blesssed are you when you are persecuted for my word" Let us all remember there
are more sins to fight against. We all need cleansing.Revelation
21:7, 87He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his
God, and he shall be My son8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the
abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and
all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and
brimstone: which is the second death.Revelation 22:12-16
12 And behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with me, to give every man
according as his work shall be.13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and
the end, the first and the last.14 Blessed are they that do his
commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in
through the gates into the city.15 For without (outside) are dogs, and
sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth
and maketh a lie.Lies: novels, movies, DVD's, television, anti-God
laws, etc..To have power to overcome wickedness, we must be righteous and
chose leaders who want God's ways.
I have spend the last 20 min reading hundreds of comments for and against prop
8...I agree whats done is done...and how is this comparable to the Civil Rights
movement back in the day.. Last time I checked I didnt get to choose to be born
an African American...Being gay isnt a race of people..or maybe I'm just a silly
ChristianPeace and Love
I am a straight male, age 62, married 40 years, and I dont see for the life of
me how gay marriage hurts anybodys marriage.If a church or person
doesnt believe in it, then fine. But dont pass laws against it.The
anti-gay marriage people have hyped their cause to preposterous levels. Does the
marriage of Jim and Bob of Arbuckle City, California at the Colusa Country
Courthouse really have any affect on anybodys marriage? By preventing Jim and
Bob from getting married, we are saving the family? Come on, get real.IMPORTANT: I don't believe the LDS Church is a cult, and my disagreement is
not with Mormon theology. I disagree with the mean-spirited policy and the
funding of a crusade off in California. Some Mormons that I've known have been
salt-of-the-earth people. I've lived in Utah my whole life.
If a few judges want to deem the current definition marriage unconstitutionally
biased again and again till it sticks, fine by me. Apparently the
country went the wrong way with the civil rights movement. We need those judges
to redefine the unconstitutionally biased term "white" to include african
americans, hispanics, asians, and indians. Apparently there is no such thing as
seperate but equal. I want to be white!!!
it was nice to see the people of California stand up for traditional moral
values that made America great and can keep America from falling further into
societal decay. The democratic process is open to all, but it is sad the way
some people respond. Shooting out windows at an LDS church. It appears mob
mentality is the response of those who disagree with the outcome, and probably
giving a lot of peaceful protestors a bad name.
Thank you California for passing Prop 8. I was thrilled to be able to send some
money to support Yes on Prop 8. And thatnk you to all the others who supported
this in any way they could. The intolerance shown by a small activist group of
the LGBT community does a disserve to those who I know to be Gay & Lesbian. If
they would put their effots to promoting the real needs they have of property
rights, visitation rights etc that they say they want for themselves and their
partner, without hijacking Marriage, they would be getting what they want and
need. This radical activism does just what Mr. Whipple says the LDS church did
for his cause. It encourages me to be more actively supportive of protecting
marriage. Expect me to double my contribution the next time it is needed.
"I am embarrassed to be called not only a Christian and a Mormon. There will
come a day when the Savior returns, and I promise you he will not be coming to
the LDS conference Center..."You're right. He'll first appear at
Adam-Ondi-Ahman, and then He'll descend down to the Mount of Olives in
Jerusalem. I don't imagine the LDS Conference Center is anywhere near the top of
the list, though I'm sure He'll visit there someday. =)
you mormons are so self centered. I'm sorry that you feel like if gay marrige
is allowed, your marrige will be viewed as "less valid" but those are YOUR
VIEWS. If you believe that god meant for marrige to only be between a man an a
women, then good for you, but obviously gays don't believe in that, so why are
YOUR VIEWS, changing the way that they live their lives. It's fine if a person
doesn't believe in gay marrige, but that is thier views and it shouldn't be
changing the way other people live.
What is up with Rocky Anderson? After the wimpy way he waved the flag during
the Olympics...why would you even want him representing anybody? What a 'ditz'.
Do any of you protesters really think you'll change anyone's mind? I am amazed
at the hypocrisy coming from the gay community. You are only 'for something' if
everybody else agrees with you. They wanted Prop 8 on the ballot, so you could
all vote in favor of it. Oh, but wait...it got defeated, and now you are just a
bunch of whiners. I wanted McCain over Obama. Obama won. I guess I will deal
with it and go on with my life. Why can't you pathetic cry babies do the same
I am a straight male, age 62, married 40 years, lifelong Utah resident, and I
dont see for the life of me how gay marriage hurts anybodys marriage.If a church or person doesnt believe in it, then fine. But dont pass laws
against it.We have dozens of Utah families living in homeless
shelters, and that money spent in California could have changed their lives.
Doesnt anyone see the contradiction with Christian family values?The
anti-gay marriage people have hyped their cause to preposterous levels. Does the
marriage of Jim and Bob of Arbuckle City, California at the Colusa Country
Courthouse really have any affect on anybodys marriage? By preventing Jim and
Bob from getting married, are we really saving the family? Come on, get real.IMPORTANT: I don't believe the LDS Church is a cult or not a Christian
religion. My disagreement is not with Mormon theology but with the mean-spirited
policy and the funding of a POLITICAL crusade off in California. Some Mormons that I've known have been salt-of-the-earth people. I've lived in
Utah my entire life and love many tithe-paying Mormons.
Sorry, but your logic makes no sense whatsoever.But thanks for
proving the scriptures and all the prophecies about the last days correct. Even
the very elect will be deceived.But those who follow the prophet
will not be deceived. See, you will never go wrong following the prophet. It
comes down to whether you believe the president of the church is a prophet. If
you don't -- fine. But why be a member of a church where you don't believe one
of the most basic tenets of its beliefs?What good is it to be a
member of a church whose teachings are dictated and swayed by public opinion?Christ did minister to all. But he also said "If ye love me, keep my
commandments." He said the healthy need not a physician -- but when he "hung out
with" them, as you say, he didn't condone their behavior. He taught them the
right way to live. He told them to "go your way and sin no more." And when he
taught contrary to the prevailing thought of the day, he was killed.Christ did love the sinner -- but never did condone the sin. Ever.
The LDS church gave $22 million to the efforts to Pass Prop 8.........and you
wonder why they are being singled out? Pa-lease!!This protest WILL
make an impact. There will be protests, like this one in almost all 50 states
in the next month. With enough interest and momentum, the choice will go to the
supreme court and Gay Marriage will be legal. And let me guess, those
"prophets" you follow will claim God has spoken to them and allow Gays into
their congregation just as with African Americans...? What a bunch of BS!
As a mother of young children, I am NOT willing to let my innocent children be
indoctrinated by people who thumb their noses at God's law. God made Adam and
Eve, NOT Adam and Steve. "We, The People" refuse to let you hijack the term
"marriage" for your sick lifestyle. You have the same rights under a different
name. Quit whining! Vandalism doesn't give you more credibility, it just shows
your true colors. Oh, and by the way......you have not lost rights because gay
people NEVER had the right to be married. FYI, LDS people out there who voted
No on Prop 8......you will be held accountable for your actions by a higher law!
no more G and L. California voted. The foundng fathers spoke of. This country
was no intended to be a play ground for the travesty of G and L.
We are now seeing the true colors of the gay rights movement. They vandalise
church property and harass people as they go to church. And they do this
becuase they didn't get their way. If prop 8 would have been defeated do you
think LDS people would have been keying cars, breaking windows and picketing gay
rights people? I don't think so. Prop 8 was voted on and passed by the voters.
I guess this doesn't count if you are gay. Gay people should have special
rights and not have to pay attention to what the majority wants. I didn't vote
for Obama. Gee maybe I should start breaking the windows of homes that belong
to Obama supporters. Maybe I should try and get some activist judges to put
McCain in the whitehouse. Who cares what people voted for? Come on people.
What is a demacracy good for if what the people vote for is not upheld? I'm
afraid gays are going to get their way no matter what the people want. The
system is too corrupt to work anymore.
What an absurd amount of time wasted on such none christen like behaviors, if
you are tired of people viewing the LDS church so negatively then stop posting
on these ridiculous threads and get out and help your community and your
neighbors regardless of their religion or sexual orientation. You do not have to
approve of every part of a persons life to show them a little christen love.
Civil Rights: OK, everyone have the right to be supported by the goberment as
equal...as human being...BUT "Religious Marriage" IF YOU REALLY believe in God
and want to live by GOD'S LAW, not changing for your convenience, Dont fight
agaisnt THAT LAW, God doesnt change, He said Man and Woman, THAT IS NOT MY LAW,
OS GOD'S LAW!!!
Judging by a lot of these comments there is going to be some serious sifting of
the wheat from the tares going on in the LDS church. I'm shocked at how many
LDS members don't comprehend their own religion. It seems a lot of the members
come because of the social aspect. These people are not going to last.
Anything that brings money into the state's economy is GREAT!Protest
the Mormons, buy gas, buy food, stay at hotels, go shopping, protest some more,
stay long enough ski, spend more money...Is doesn't matter why
they're here, they're here! Booya! Ka-ching! Thanks for the money (and by the
way, your protests aren't going to change the minds of the Mormon old men).
I like how people are accusing the Church of lying to get Prop 8 passed when the
Church never produced any materials in support of Prop 8. The only thing SLC
ever put on paper was a letter to members asking them to support Prop 8, and the
reasoning given was that this was a moral issue. Any ads providing other
reasoning were produced by the various coalitions and were funded only in part
by individual members, not SLC.
This is not about discrimination. This is about a distinction among different
behaviors. All laws distinguish among different kinds of behavior. All laws
are based on what people believe to be good versus what they believe to be
wrong. All laws have a moral foundation. 25 Therefore, choose you
by the voice of this people, judges, that ye may be judged according to the laws
which have been given you by our fathers, which are correct, and which were
given them by the hand of the Lord. 26 Now it is not common that the
voice of the people desireth anything contrary to that which is right; but it is
common for the lesser part of the people to desire that which is not right;
therefore this shall ye observe and make it your lawto do your business by the
voice of the people. 27 And if the time comes that the voice of the
people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will
come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction
even as he has hitherto visited this land.
Also, one other thing to you. You don't think the church is well aware of all
the problems on the earth and uses its resources to help others?? The church
spends untold millions of dollars each year in worthy causes to help other
people. And where does that money come from? From the members of the church
who faithfully pay their tithes and offerings. You are embarrased
to be called a Christian and a Mormon? And all because the church felt like it
was right and proper to define holy matimony as being between a man and a woman.
I will continue to fight against that, wich is contrary to the teachings of
jesus christ. Homosexuality is not condoned in any way or form in the
scriptures. If that doesn't sway their thinking and they just desire gay
marriage because straight people can get married,then talk to my two and four
year old children. Becuse you can't always get what you want.Beside that point
marriage is ordained of God. It states that a man will take a women and there
become one before God.It is plainely stated. If you decide to through God out of
the picture and make it fit your requirements then thankyou for fullfiling a
prophecy and makeing the second comeing, come a bit sooner.
Let's take the post beginnint "We have genocide..." and rewrite it from the
other side, just for kicks:We have genocide in Darfur, we have AIDS
ravaging Africa, Breast Cancer is killing millions, ETC.... but of course the
most important LIBERAL AGENDA is to REDEFINE MARRIAGE SO two guys down the
street CAN PRETEND TO BE married, so let's throw all of our money time and
effort to defeating the WILL OF THE CALIFORNIA VOTERS.When did we as
RADICAL GAYS become the DICTATORS OF SOCIAL POLICY? How in the last 30 years has
the GAY COMMUNITY gone from the CLOSETED cult to the big bully on the
playground?You can't spout love, and support it with hate and
lies.I am embarrassed to be called a HOMOSEXUAL. There will come a
day when the Savior returns, and I promise you he will not be coming to the GLBT
HEADQUARTERS... Read the scriptures and figure out who Christ ministered to, AND
HOW HE TOLD SINNERS TO SIN NO MORE.It wasn't with the Pharisees who
took upon themselves the ROLE of God as the Judge, Jury, and moral authority.
The GAYS have taken on this modern day ROLE!Touche, eh?
When prop 8 went your way (homosexual) I am not clear where the LDS people had
there 4000 person march and where did we vandalize, whine and moan?Oh ya, we
didn't...We took our rights based upon our correct beliefs and VOTED to not have
our families morally shredded.The family,by the way,is the most fundemental
structure since the beginning of time and along come the homosexuals in 2008 and
think "Well,we will just change the most natural thing God has given us,no big
deal."Pretty sure God didn't give girl on girl or guy on guy the right to
procreate,when you can change that call me and I'll switch to your side.And what
in the world does taxes have to do with marriage?It's fishing.Do as you want but
when you attack the most sacred gift known to man,my family,we are not going to
hell without a fight.
We have genocide in Darfur, we have AIDS ravaging Africa, Breast Cancer is
killing millions, Hunger, homeless on the streets, Iraq and Afghan War vets not
getting treatment for PTSD and other related injuries.... but of course the most
dangerous thing to humanity is two guys down the street getting married, so
let's throw all of our money time and effort to defeating these liberal judges.
When did we as Christians and LDS become the Pharisees? How in the
last 100 years has the LDS church gone from the hunted minority cult to the big
bully on the playground. You can't spout love, and support it with
hate and lies.I am embarrassed to be called not only a Christian and
a Mormon. There will come a day when the Savior returns, and I promise you he
will not be coming to the LDS conference Center... Read the scriptures and
figure out who Christ ministered to, and "Hung out with" It wasn't
with the Pharisees who took upon themselves the roll of God as the Judge, Jury,
and moral authority. The Church has taken on this modern day roll!
The majority of California voters went to the polls to excerise their civic
duty, outcome...the majority voted for passage of proposition 8. Though the Gay
and Lesbian say they are disappointed and hurt it appears they cannot acccept
the truth. Like an upset adolesent they turn to name calling,lies and causing
civil unrest on city streets and hiways in So. California. On local news one gay
man commented "We will have thousands of transvesites here every night at the
Morman Temple if needed". It is interesting to note the protesters have not the
courage to protest at the doors or gates of the AME church in South Central
L.A.. The Gay community is rapidly losing respect and supporters by the
thousands as result of their chilish actions since the election on Tuesday.
I've seen 5 year olds who don't get their way act the same way........
It's weird to me that people are treating "gay's" as if they are not regular
human beings but rather a "special" group of people that need "special" rights
for their immorality. Yes, we are to love all of God's children but that
doesn't mean that we have to accept or condone their lifestyle. Parents don't
need to choose their religion over their children's behavior. The Mormon
religion teaches parents to love their Lost Children, to pray, support and help
their children come back to our Savior, Jesus Christ and our Father in Heaven.
It's not a Crytal Ball that is used to see that it's the best thing for
families, it called SPIRITUALITY!
When the Nazis came for the communists,I remained silent;I was not a
communist. When they locked up the social democrats,I remained
silent;I was not a social democrat.When they came for the
trade unionists,I did not speak out;I was not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,I remained silent;I was not a
Jew.When they came for me,there was no one left to speak
out.This is how majority rule has ruined American.
It's interesting to watch this debate from outside of Utah and California. As I
read this comment thread, I keep thinking. Do my fellow Mormons not see the
ultimate irony and hypocrisy of the Church's support for Prop8? Just over a 100
years ago, we were the ones fighting for the acceptance of the "Mormon"
definition of marriage (e.g. one many/many wives). I find it horribly ironic
that in 100 years we have gone from being the persecuted to being the
persecutors. It's very disheartening to see that our leaders would prefer us to
devote our time and energy in order to marginalize 10% of the population. With
all of the travesties, poverty, and war in this world, you would think the First
Presidency would their energy focused on these issues. And that 6 point
"Commentary on what would happened if Prop8 fails" that was passed around in
chruch really made me angry. As a lawyer, I found that the reasoning in it was
totally deceptive and misleading. Going down that road only opened the church to
I was born and raised in CA. I lived in a suburb of LA for 30 years. I have
friends of every race, religion, and sexual preference. The only "spewing" going
on is by those who oppose defining marriage between 1 man and 1 woman. I have
friends whose home was vandalized because of a pro prop 8 sign in their yard.
Moreover, their sidewalk and driveway sported foul bigoted lanuage. The police
told them the only remedy or recourse they had was to take the sign out of their
yard! I didn't see anything in the media about THAT one. Now the property of a
sacred religious place has been damaged by those who did it in the name of
"acceptance" and "love" for all? Hmmm...not so loving huh? Of course you love
your son. Of course you want him to be happy. No one wants to deny that to him.
But please, don't call quietly defending ones moral and religious beliefs
"spewing". The only thing being denied to homosexuals is the religious
legitimization of an act that has boldly been delcared by the Maker of us all to
be out of harmony with His plan.
The liberals threw a ton of cash at this (more than the Yes campaign). They
have screamed for democratic process. When that doesn't suit them, they have a
tantrum. LDS folks accounted for 2% of the Yes vote... Why didn't these people
scream a week ago when there was a vote to be had?
I do think the church is awesome for supporting this... however it dont mean a
thing if the people of california dont actually vote for it. so dont hate the
church hate the majority of california. well on second thought dont hate anyone
just become strait and you'll find you like it
How does the Chruch know that it is doing what is best for families. It seems to
me that they are asking many parents to choose between the children who were
born to them and who they have loved forever, and the religion. To those of you
with high and mighty opinions about the happiness of families and what is best
for them....perhaps your God did not deem you worthy to be given such a
beautiful child in these so called "latter days".
Being gay is a choice of lifestyle. In the bible, this is an abomination in the
eyes of the Lord. The LDS church is doing what is best for its families and in
keeping family traditions. The church is doing what is best for our children and
for our future.
Nothing more to say than that. The legal process will work its way back through
the courts, but the voice of the people of California twice have ruled that
marriage is between a man and a woman. Guaranteed if the courts overturn this
yet again, eventually nothing will be deemed illegal. Those in favor of
legalizing same-sex marriage claim it is ridiculous to claim that the slippery
slope to legalizing pedophilia (child brides), polygamy (multiple spouses), and
bestiality begins with same-sex marriage, but that is the logical conclusion if
the courts deem you cannot "discriminate" based on sexual preference even with
constitutional verbiage. How can you think the FLDS could not claim polygamy
and child brides are not to be discriminated against if same-sex marriage is
legalized? No one is condoning any type of government interference in the
bedroom or lives of same-sex practitioners, merely the democratically passed
proposition stating that marriage is between a man and a woman. Civil unions
and legal rights are available in California for same-sex practitioners but not
marriage, so no discrimination exists by law.
It makes me sad. There are good Mormons, there are good Gay people. The Mormon
Church's enormous financial support of this proposition is hurting both. Put the
money toward more productive use.
I don't care what side of the fence you sit on...it is sad to me that a prophet
of god asked members of the lords church to support the proposition and some
have chosen to be in open defiance to this council? I don't understand.
Anti California H8 are LDS too; plenty of us in fact. Be careful in discounting
the opinion of your neighbour. I love all these commnets from Utah LDS. Very few
I know in CA would spew such comments, amazing. I have a gay son and if push
comes to shove I chose him, I believe his conviction more than most LDS who have
posted here. All I see her from LDS is hate with no reason other then "that is
what I have been told." Sorry for the rant, I am just an upset mom and
frustrated with the church and some of the people.
Gov. Arnold S. of California stated this morning on CNN that the gay marriage
issue will probably go back to the California Supreme Court and be overturned
again. I am glad to see that Arnolds views on this subject have evolved and he
is now in favor of marriage among the gay population (if in doupt, read the LA
Times today). Not worry all, Arnold told the homosexual community to never give
up for what is right. Stay strong and equal rights will prevale.
I truly believe that the Native Americans, Black/African Americans, Irish
Americans and the Chineses Americans deserve better rights than they have now.
They have been through a lot more than anyone in this country. Gays already have
their rights. What more do they need? Stop getting greedy!
A little English and Math lesson for those who are spreading disinformation
through their gender confusion."Gay marriage" is one of the greatest
oxymorons ever.Gay = man+man or woman+womanMarriage =
man+womanTruth does not equal "hate." Nor does a belief and practice
that differs from yours and is grounded in time-honored and socially beneficial
mores equal "hate." You can scream hate a dozen times, a million times for that
matter, and it won't change the truth, which is: Others who disagree with you
have just as much right to voice their opinions as you do without those being
ironically, erroneously and continually denounced and spat upon as "hateful."
It's a shallow tactic, and can easily be seen through by anyone with half a
All these comments are lame...no one is a bigot for having a view point. The
religious right has as much claim to freedom of speech and religious beliefs as
homosexuals. Ballot initiatives are the purest form of democracy we have. Those
that would have Prop 8 repealed by the judges in California would love to have
the government subvert the will of the people. If homosexuals don't like it they
can move to a state where it is recognized. The people have spoken...end of
I live in LA, and I will truly celebrate the day that I will leave this state
when I finish school. I feel that someday Church members will have to leave this
modern-day Babylon so that the Lord will be able to do what he sees fit with the
whole state, whether it be burn with wildfires, destroyed by earthquakes, or
swallowed into the ocean. The Church used to have a stronghold in LA, but it has
just continually gotten weaker and weaker, and it is because of the liberal
mindset of the majority of people in LA and the entire state, including many
churchmembers. I believe Church leaders have seen that the failure of Prop 8 or
other similar legislation would/will be the beginning of a moral downturn in
California and in the rest of the US. It's okay to take away any mention of God
and the pledge of allegiance from school, but heaven forbid that we fail to
discuss the alternative lifestyle choices of the moral minority. This is the
beginning of the end, biblical prophecy will be fulfilled, as it always has, as
the latter days wind down. Let me out of here!
wow what is going on in USA. Homosexual is life style people choose and what.
Democracy isn't anarchy. It's sign of world end.
I don't think it's surprise on the part of most members of the LDS Church. It's
disappointment that anti-8 people are acting so bigoted, and then have the nerve
to call us that for voicing our opinions.
Nice...I'm going to give you a solid 9.4 on the self righteous scale.
RE: You're THAT guyHow does my attitude represent or give the mormon
church anything, when I am not even mormon. Your comment didn't make any
DEAR Ashamed: if you don't think those "lies" that you call them aren't
true...then you don't watch the news or read much...check it out before you
claim it's a lie...it's right around the corner and happening already in some
schools. My grandson has already experienced it.
To Anonymous 9:43 pm: (and all of you who have made similar comments) Your
comments are mean spirited and have not an ounce of decency! Your words speak a
lot about you and that is really sad. This kind of speech does nothing to help
each other see others' points of view, it just alienates people and makes you
look like a "pot stirrer".
It's nice that things like this come up every once in a while so that the Lord
can separate the wheat from the tares (see Alma 14:11).As our
primary children remind us: "Follow the prophet, follow the prophet, follow the
prophet, don't go astray. Follow the prophet, follow the prophet, follow the
prophet, he knows the way!!!"
Lol...Washington celebrates Pioneer Day Also...Yes
indeed we are glad the mormons stopped in Utah and did not make it this far west
TO: Non-LDS Man HereThat kind of self righteous attitude is exactly
what the Mormon Church doesn't need. I can't believe the amount of people on
this blog who try and prove another's apostasy by there 2 sentence post on Prop
8. I'm embarrassed how many members choose to react with a "holier then though"
attitude, it's sad.
Missionaries are going to have a tough road ahead. I think we are in for though
times and converts may be hard to come ny. I hope I am wrong but this is my
This thread is so sad. It is sad that the LDS church and its' members are being
called "mean spirited, judgmental, nasty, etc...". just because of their
religious views. Most people who are deeply religious will hold these same
views, not just the LDS members. Unfortunately what I am seeing as mean
spirited, judgmental and nasty is the way that churches and temples are being
vandalized because of the views the church holds. I hope and believe that most
homosexual people do not agree that this is right and would not condone it.
While the LDS church has stood firm on upholding the law concerning the
definition of marriage, they believe that gay couples should have civil rights,
access to a partner's health care and insurance, death benefits etc... and have
stated this many times. Please be nice everyone. Stating your views is fine
(without all the sarcasm!), but bashing each other is unproductive! I've been
saddened by the cruelty on here.
To: RE: KitchsunichYour comment above shows that you obviously don't
even have a testimony of the the Mormon gospel, if you are willing to leave and
not look back easily like that. So what is it about the church you love, the
social aspect of it all?
No need to ask what is wrong with us. There are free thinkers in the LDS church
and some are compassionate beyond a photo opportunity. It is great to think for
yourself on subjects and you know what I could care less what my ward members
care. I love the church and serve the church well but you know what, I am strong
enough as a women to leave and not look back if this kind of action is the
I am an active LDS Member.You would think that of anyone to
understand what it's like to be left out, bullied, and persecuted against.. it
would be us.. It makes me so sad to read and hear all these people
making judgement of others. Love one another.
We say "Let them protest", "Let them whine", "We win" and "You lose." We say
this all in the name of Heavenly Father??? I think some of you LDS need to take
a look at your comments and think about what you type. We are not a mean
spirited people but many of you make us look bad. Agree or disagree we need to
be respectful. I disagree with H8 and so did about fifty percent of my ward. It
has been a sad month or so and now all you are making this much worse with your
comments. What is wrong with some of you!
GOOD JOB voters of California! Yeah for democracy! Hooray for the LDS an any
other church that stands up for what they believe in, and allow their voices to
be heard on this MORAL issue.Let the poor protestors protest, it's
like the sorry other person who throws the game board in their tantrum after
they've lost. One they go too far, the rest of the moral country will organize
against THEM, and shout down their pout.Believers in God will
overcome the amoral in the United States of America!
Doesn't the Prophet have a little something better to do than take away the
rights of homosexuals. I believe there is a ~5 billion dollar mall that needs a
little attention. All the while people starve and die in poverty but we can
shop. Why on earth champion the gay rights issue when there are far more human
trageties occurring. Building a mall or banning gays rights will not serve
humanity. I just don't get the mormons but then again it is a business and I am
not am business man.
Lookie me Lookie meI am gay and you must accept meYou Gays are
out of control and I for one am glad the LDS Church stepped up. No other church
or organization contributed as hard or so much and I am proud that marriage in
CA is still between a man and women. Thank you my Brothers ans Sisters. We did
the right thing and once again set the example for others to follow.
Right is right and wrong is wrong. There is no gray area. Who decides what is
right and wrong? God does. He tells us through the scriptures. Remember Sodom
and Gomorrah? Bible is pretty clear why that place was no more. Good for all the people who stand up for what is right. We need more people
to take a stand for right in this country and in the world. Right does not mean
hate, it means truth. People who do wrong hate the truth.
When a letter is read over every pulpit from the First Presidency of the
LDS church, that is church doctrine. The thinking is done for you, you are
commanded to obey. Every Mormon bishop in California was instructed to inform
you,based on your tithing,how much you should contribute to Prop 8. There is no
choice in the matter, it is pray, pay, and obey. If that is not acceptable to
you then it is time to leave the LDS church.
The mormon god and jesus is not the one I know. With all the hate the mormons
have I would suggest they take a deep look at who is at the head of there church
and examine the values of the leadership.
I'm a gay Episcopalian from Massachusetts trying to evaluate the assertion of
LGBT protestors that the LDS is actively anti-gay, beyond its role in California
politics. I think some of the comments here reflect an animus that unfortunately
bears out the perceptions. I am worried for the physical safety of gays in Utah.
In re: Voice of the People and others like him"The prescriptions in
favor of liberty, ought to be leveled against that quarter where the greatest
danger lies, namely, that which possesses the highest prerogative of power: But
this [is] not found in either the executive or legislative departments
of government, but in the body of the people, operating by the majority against
the minority." -James MadisonI am amazed that the LDS Church, who in
the context of its history so clearly understands what it means to be a minority
deprived of its fundamental rights by a mob majority, became in turn a leader in
front of a majority who is denying a minority of its right to worship according
to the dictates of their own conscience.
you are protesting against Prop 8 and the government that gave us the rights to
protest things that we don't believe are right. You are also protesting against
God by trying to be what you are not. Of course you can protest all you want,
but the fact is, you were born either a male or a female. God doesn't make
mistakes, humans do!
Marriage is a "RIGHT" for anyone other than one man and one woman?I'll
make a deal with those who support anything other than Marriage between one man
and one woman. As soon as any other compination of sex, ie.
male-male, female-female, male-male-male, female-female-female. . . you name it,
have a natural biological child on a regular basis, (other than ONE Man and One
Woman) without any scientific help, then I will consider saying ok to marriage
for them. If they can't (and they can't because nature won't allow it)I stant on
"Marriage" for ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN"!!!!! End of argument, period.Therefore, if a right is not god-given than that right has to be taken from
someone else. Is that the kind of "Rights" we want to have in this world?I for one do not.
The reason why the United States of America promotes marriage between a man and
a woman is because it is socially/economically the best bet for the country and
for people. Not all marriages are stable, but stable families do form a
backbone and stability for their country and their children. There are studies
that prove this. If gay people want to co-habitate that is their
RIGHT, but it is NO ONE'S right to redefine marriage as stated by law. And NO
JUDGE IS TO TELL ANYONE HOW TO VOTE, or take away the right to the law making
process of this nation. If the courts just decided everything, WHY WOULD WE
NEED TO VOTE? The result would be tyranny by the courts. AND THAT would go
many different ways...FOR or AGAINST ANYONE. Our country was
founded on checks and balances. The vote in California was, for me, a check
against judges telling everyone else how to vote.
Gay= bigotry and hate. Want proof! Go watch the protestors.
I don't condone attacks upon individual Mormons, but the Mormon church used its
offices and influence to help fund a deceptive and fear-mongering campaign to
deny an existing civil right to thousands upon thousands of law-abiding
Californians (and prevent one for Arizonans and Floridians). It would NOT have
happened without directives coming from Salt Lake City. It's about time the LDS
church owns their intolerance.Sore losers? Roe V. Wade didn't stop
the pro-life movement. Why should Prop 8 stop the movement for marriage
"It's ridiculous that this debate has gotten so nasty. If two people want to
call their union marriage, I still don't see how that's an attack on my family.
It's not. Are we just looking for fights? We've got real problems in this
country right now...I wish we had this passion about education and health care."
by John Pack Lambertthat is hilarious...who has posted more
passionately these past four months than you?
First of all, gays are not, as mentioned by many here, being denied any rights.
They are indeed, as denied by many of those here against prop 8, requesting
special rights. If everyone on the planet were gay or lesbian, we would die out
within a century. So, it only works if only a few people are gay. So why do
these people go around handing out propoganda? If it only applies to a few then
it is indeed special rights.
I'm glad the homosexuals are marching on SLC. It's good press for good
Americans out there. They get to see that the LDS stand up for something good
in a world of devolving standards - the time-honored tradtion or marriage
between a man and a woman. Notice something curious - the gays aren't marching
on Catholic cathedrals, Jewish synagogues, or Evangelical chapels, are they?
Remember folks, they were also big supporters of Prop 8. Go ahead, press. Give
us the good exposure. For once, you're getting it right! And you don't even
see that, do you? That's cool...
All these "protestors" are really demonstrating is how bigoted and intolerant
they are! A temper tantrum! I say let them protest, it just shows the rest of
the world what they really are! Put them on TV and let other people see their
little tantrums and religious bigitory in action!
Way to go California! You know there wasn't only mormons voting for this in
Califonia. It's good to see other religions share the same beliefs. Get a
I am LDS and ashamed at how many self rightous comments are here, are we only to
be kind and understanding when we are among people who agree with our beliefs or
do we recognize Gay, Straight or otherwise we are all Gods Children and should
treat each other as Jesus would want us to???I have read alot of hate hear
and think it is just sad, not a Day that the self rightouse should be proud
I can't believe all that has been said about the church. What is wrong with the
G/L groups that I thought was to be loving and caring, come on what you all have
been doing is consider as hate crimes.What members of the church has done
was to stand with other's who voted yes on 8 because they believe that marriage
is only to be between male and female.And for your information I want to
say thank you for all the attention as more people want to know more about our
church and likes us even more. So if you think you will brake us down you wont
for God will protect those who obeys his laws and his commandments from those
who wants to do us harm, and if you hurt one of us you are hurting the
SAVIOR.Now let this go We VOTED now let the courts handle what they feel
needs to and you all grow up children are watching and you all are sending a bad
message of hate not peace and love. The LDS members don't hate you, we just love
what marriage stands for.GOOD LUCK AND KEEP SAFE UTAH!!!!!!!!!!!
To all who keep saying citing the Bible and want to keep marriage a religious
institution: Fine. Keep marriage in the church. Just don't expect the government
to give you spousal social security benefits. Don't expect your employer to
provide spousal medical benefits. Don't expect the IRS to let you claim your
spouse on your taxes. I'm glad so many of you think that homosexuality is
a choice. Just one question. Do you think heterosexuality is a choice? Did you
have to decide to love a member of the opposite sex?
Church funds were spend. It is documented that travel expenses of church leaders
were contributed for a talk to the faithful, not illegal but they were spent.
You are wrong in this part of your comment as well the rest of your comment.
Hate breads hate and the LDS church is good about picking a fight with hate.
Some of these comments are so out of touch with reality it baffles my mind.1. Yes, there are LDS gays --- get a clue. Yes, I am gay. Yes, I am
LDS --- served a mission and all. In the church since 1979. BTW, did any of
you bother to see how some promiment LDS people are voting no on 8? Obviously
not.2. Marriage for gays will keep traditional marriages intact ---
for fundamental LDS people, it's called temple marriage.3. The
repeating comment that somehow extending the same rights to gays as heteros have
will somehow change how education is done or allow people to sue ministers
baffles me. -- That is the underlying message on protectmarriage.com. But no
worries, traditional marriages are alive and well, at least half of them are ---
the ones that don't end in divorce.4. By ignoring the rights, yes,
rights, of LGBT community, and then turning around and saying, in the same
breath, "we are not homophobes" is speaking out of both sides of your mouth.5. And no, we will not let this rest. We will not stop, until equal
rights are enjoyed by all. Until then...
It is ADAM and EVE not ADAM and STEVE. WHEN will you people get it. God had
spoken through his Prophet and HIS living Church. What do you not understand
Once again, NO Church funds were spent on Prop 8. If individuals who are
members of the Church spent their own money on prop 8 then so be it. It is the
anti-Church groups that are being hateful and vicious. Get real. This is not a
political issue and will not be influenced by any amount of protesting.
"LDS official lauds work for California's Prop. 8" "Elder Clayton
says leaders 'grateful'..." And you wonder WHY the church is now
being targeted? It has nothing to do with your prophet, your god, or your
scriptures. It has to do with your venemous conduct.
I have tried to keep up with this blog and I am continuously amazed at how
ignorant people are. First, comparing what this vote did to Gays and what
happened to mormons in history is awful. No gays are dying because of this
vote, they are not getting ripped from their homes and tarred and feathered and
killed in front of their families. Second, the leaders have every right to tell
their people what God wants from them. That is why we have them. Third, when
you say that you never voted to go against mormon plural marriage, you show your
ignorance again. Plural marriage was banned by the US government and rather
than protest or get in to a pissing contest, the mormon church leaders told
their members to stop the now illegal practice adhering to the laws that were
voted in. Why can't the Gays do the same thing. The church does not have
plural marriage now and will never have it again as long as it is illegal! Suck
it up and go with what the people want. We voted, you lost!
For you information,Oregon does indeed celebrate Pioneer Day!We are
greatful that the mormons stopped in Utah.
to what happened: The people in the church aren't any more contentious that
ever before. Some are and they don't know when nice works better than whatever
it is they are doing on here. Most people in the church are as nice as they ever
were. :D I wish there weren't those willing to let their emotions get away
from them on both sides. Surely most homosexual people are nice people too. The
ones I have known are. Kay and Barbara were great! (just in case they happen to
be reading saying hi!) Always willing to take all those swarming bees out of our
backyard. lol.I think its pretty much a few on both sides stirring it up.
Time to take the foam down a bit!
I just heard on the radio that protests continue against Mormon churches today
in La Jolla and Oakland, California. There will undoubtedly be more to come.
That is what they get for picking this fight in the first place. Your nasty
church earned this black eye.
Personally, I think Utah should take it's Church of Mo and withdraw from the
Union. In the meantime, they should keep their money out of California
elections, and stop dumping $20 million into fear monger commercials that had
nothing to do with the issue at hand.
The Mormon church should not "wonder" why they are being singled out by the
demonstrators. It is because of the truly mean-spirited campaign they conducted
on behalf of Proposition H8 and for the outright lies they promulgated so
vociferously, unlike the other churches and organizations that merely supported
it. They took it upon themselves and now they deserve what they get.
please define a few years ago.
I thought the people of California voted not the church. What makes a democracy
work is that after the election, we all accept the decision. I did not vote for
Obama, but I accept him as my new President. Only once in US history did people
not accept the people's election result and that resulted in a bloody civil war
that divided the nation and thousands lost their lives.A key foundation of
a democracy is when the people vote via the ballot box and we all accept the
decision. Yes, we may continue to protest but peacefully and without targeting
any group or individual. "Play the ball and not the man" is what my coach used
to tell me.
Opponents of Proposition 8 insist that the electorate is softening and that the
future is bright for their cause. They better get busy. With each passing
year, California becomes more Hispanic and more African-American. Evidently,
the majority of folks in those two demographics still think that having children
is a good thing and that marriage between a man and a woman is the way it should
work. While liberal white "educated" folk in California work on the gay agenda
with their dogs, cats, and same-sex partners, the very demographic that
primarily opposes them is growing exponentially. Those who opposed Proposition
8 may have seen their best chance evaporate before their eyes this year. At
last check, each passing year notes fewer and fewer states without
amendments/legislation proscribing gay marriage. Y'all have a long row to hoe
and you better make hay while the sun shines because it's looking more and more
desperate for you....
I think the LDS Church should have its tax exempt status revoked as they are no
longer a spiritual institution, but rather, a political machine. It would help
ANONYMOUS | It's comical that Mormons are out front defining
marriage when just a few yearS ago Mormons were defining marriage as one man and
anywhere from one to a few dozen women. Why do Mormons think they are such moral
highbrows that they should be out telling everyone else how they need to
live.Mormons never pressured society to change the definition
of marriage in fact they wanted to keep to themselves and live their lives in
peace. When the United States Supreme Court ruled against polygamy, the
practice was stopped. Contrast this to the gay movement. Homosexuals have lost none of their civil rights. Have they been sent to
prison for being gay? Have they been disenfranchised for being gay? Have they
been denied the right to sit on juries because they are gay? Have their homes
been invaded unlawfully in a search to find evidence of illegal cohabitation?
Have they been forced to leave the country? All these things happened to
polygamists. Can you truthfully say that the Mormon Church has hurt gays like
this. Trying to compare polygamy to gay marriage and the denial of civil rights
is like mixing apples and oranges.
Kudos to California for passing prop 8, it was and is the right thing to do.
The lifestyle is wrong and perverted and one day these folks will have to stand
before the Lord and explain themselves. The church has the moral right and
responsibility to speak out this and they have done so , but the people of
California have spoken ever more loudly, so give it up and let it go.
oh brother! now I've heard everything.
Proposition 8 is right. Gay marriage is WRONG, and it`s lifestyle is WRONG too.
Look at the stats! God knew all along, it was not for human consumption. Give
your heads a shake, and get right with the Lord! After gay marriage, they will
want to adopt pure little kids into their den of hell, they are out to deceive
the world. Resist corruption!
THANKS REALLY| 8:11 a.m. Nov. 9, 2008"I think its inappropriate in most
cases to be quoting scriptures to these people that are already feel hurt by
this situation."I think it is very appropriate. The
scriptures are for everyone not just the believers. They have a lot of good
counsel too and serve to put the learning of the world in its perspective. If
you do not give a person the opportunity to learn the other side of the argument
they really cannot exercise their free agency.
I am straight, but left the church many years ago for my own reasons. I belong
to another church now (and have no intention of going back), but I did not
remember it being so contentious and so apparently full of ill will. In fact,
it used to seem the opposite. What happened?
That's right, I believe it because I read it in God's book - the Bible - which
covers the history of the entire Old World and shows that whenever nations
condoned homosexuality they were destroyed and I have this thing called a
survival instinct.There are other books of scripture like the Torah
and the Book of Mormon which also cover the history of entire nations or
continents like the New World and testify of the same things.The
world has enough witnesses and histories. Those who do not learn from history
repeat the same mistakes. What praphanalia are you reading and how does it
trump 7000 years of history?
God is dead. Humans have evolvedto the point where a diety is not needed to
answer the unknown. Get over yourselves mormons and this god you speak of. You
look pretty irrational to all us normal people. I know see why Utah is such a
screwed up place. Utah, you can keep you laws and religion. We don't want either
of them here.
It's ridiculous that this debate has gotten so nasty. If two people want to call
their union marriage, I still don't see how that's an attack on my family. It's
not. Are we just looking for fights? We've got real problems in this country
right now...I wish we had this passion about education and health care.
I find it interesting that the Gay Rights Activists are now protesting after the
vote. If they really didn't want it voted on, they should have protested when
it was originally put on the ballot. Why didn't they? Because they never
thought they would lose in a state as liberal as California. So now, after they
realized that more than half of the state doesn't want them to have gay
marriages in their state, they attack an easy target.The Yes on 8
campaign did a great job bringing to light the adverse effects of gay marriage
rights. Thanks to all of you who funded and supported it. We did what we could
to educate Arizonans on Prop 102 and we are glad it passed down here.
I'm an active member of the church who decided not support prop 8. What bothers
me most about this whole ordeal is the fact that the church got involved in a
heated political issue and is surprised by the negative press/protests...This is
exactly why I'm uncomfortable with the church & state issues. As church leaders
you taught us the principles, let us govern ourselves.
Get a grip folks. Has anyone out there thought of what God says about this. You
cannot make sin right. God says not and we follow what He says. I am a member of
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints and proud of it. I have members
in my family who are attracted to the same gender. They need self control as we
all do. I am thankful for a God who leads us through his Prophet Thomas S
Monson. Enough said
Californias quit whining, it could be worse; you could live in Utah. At least
you had a chance to vote. Here in Utah ther is no democracy but a
theocracy, the church speaks and the legislature and sheep follow. There are no
two ways about it.Be glad you at least had a shot at representation
in an election. That stuff just doesn't happen in Utah.
For all the ranting and raving from gay activists, you are not going to change
millennia of documented history. Take a look back over the documented history
of mankind...from the bible, the koran, the Tanakh and other writings, and ask
yourself...EVER..EVER..has there been a time in the written history
of mankind ANYWHERE on this planet where same sex marriage has EVER, EVER been
condoned by a society, and been DOCUMENTED as such, SURVIVED as such and to this
day, can it be EVIDENCED as proof that same sex marriage is what all MANKIND
want?In 7,000+ years of documented "NO WAY!", do you honestly expect
that you are going to change the minds of a people who honor and love their God?
You expect our God fearing nation to change a fundemental
institution founded on HOLY principles in order to condone a behavior that his
been recorded for millennia as being a perversion in God's eyes. No
one is taking away your free agency; You can be gay if you want. This nation's
people refuse to go against their God, whether He is the God of Israel or Islam
and give your perversion the holy name of "Marriage".
Wouldn't it seem a lot more difficult to say those 3 words if we had legitamized
gay marriage? How about "In God We Trust."I hope God blesses
Roger,If you look at the Bible than Soddom and Gommorah looks pretty
foolish and so does any other nation that legitamized homosexuality.And since you brought up looking back at history, the Book of Mormon is a
history of the people on this land and people who were dark or light, woman or
man chose the wrong in the majority they were shown to be foolish and suffered
the wrath of God. When they chose the right they were blessed and free.When the people of this country broke the laws of God and had slaves
they suffered the wrath of God by having to endure the Civil War.So,
the Founding Fathers were not perfect but they were right about following God
just like Christians may appear to be self-righteous sometimes because of their
imperfections even though they are right about choosing to live by God's law.I suggest that people stop looking at the faults and imperfections of
those who want to obey God on this subject and instead focus on what God says
regardless of which imperfect person is saying it - nobody is perfect and that's
why we need to follow God.
much has been made of the sacredness of "traditional marriage" ... the problem
is, throughout much of recorded history, women in "traditional" marriages were
nothing but the property of the husband and were child-producers for the benefit
of the husband and his family ... they were required to bring an acceptable
dowry ... if they were royal born, they often were used to cement strategic
alliances between countries ... today, partners in marriages may, MAY, be
somewhat more equal (though i think many women still have not reached parity)
... but i find it amusing that many of these newly emancipated now are saying
that other human beings should NOT be able to marry ... for many years the
church taught that persons with a genetically determined skin color were not
quite good enough ... that has been remedied, at least officially ... now the
issue is that other people, whose attraction to the same gender is almost
certainly genetic, are being marginalized ... we haven't learned much, have we?
So who gives anyone the right to say they are right and the gays are wrong..
People arent born and grow up and find out they are gay.. they are born that
way.. with certain genes, hormones, ect that makes their body feel the way it
does.. im not gay, im not LDS, but i feel that this has gone to far.. how many
LDS families have a member that is gay ?? I would bet quite a few, but would
they love them less?? We are all put here on this earth by one person.. Treat
people the way you want to be treated.. If god intended us to be the same, it
would be a very boring world.. God made us all different for a reason. So why
try and tell someone that they cant do something that they feel is right? I have
no problem with people that are gay, ect.. Because they are different doesnt
make them less of a person..
"When you chose to be gay you consiouscly choose to give up certain rights and
privilages.""but they need to understand that being choosing to be
gay..."Most gays do not choose to be gay. That fact won't change,
no matter how many times you may suggest otherwise. The End
Protests are a sign that our democracy is thriving. Good for them. "It really bothers me that the gays are being so nasty about it. It is exactly
how they don't want to be treated. I don't know any LDS people who spew hatred
like they are doing towards us."It's pretty obvious that you haven't
been reading this thread. Overall, the Mormon commentators have been far more
spiteful and hate-filled (no matter how much they deny it) than the anti-Prop 8
"I would really like to know how you Gay and Lesbian Coalition contribute to
society as a group. All I ever see is a "take, take" attitude. If you would take
the time to go give service to someone in need instead of protesting you would
get more respect."Could you have made it clearer that you've never
met a gay person? Like it or not, gays are involved in pretty much every aspect
of American society. They contribute to the arts, the sciences, etc. Yes, they
do give service. The fact that you think otherwise shows your complete and
Standing many times in Sacrament meetings, I have heard it say that "they are ok
with unions, as long as they do not call it marriage."*********************What kind of sacrament meetings have you been standing in?I have never
heard anyone speak in a Sacrament meeting agreeing with civil unions.The
Church of Jesus Christ of LDS has always stood against Homosexuality and if you
commit that act, you will be excommunicated or dis-fellowshipped.You are
either anti-Mormon, which many of these comments are- or you have never set foot
in an LDS church.
It is a bad idea for mormons to post in defense of these. The more and more you
post the worse you all look. It is sad and I do not think the mormon church will
recover from this blunder.
the issue here is the definition of marriage. I am all for all of the benefits
of marriage insurance , health care, etc. being given to gay couples. However I
am not ok with the redefinition of marriage. This is not about acceptance as
much as it is indoctrination and limiting parental rights or a churchs right
with regards to marriage. If you believe the commercials for prop 8 were
exxagerated then you are mistaken as these things are happening in
Massachusetts. There are priests and ministers being sued over not performing
gay marriages, there are documents being given to kindergartners portraying
things that should be left to the parents to discuss. The alarming thing is that
twice now in california this resolution has passed and now we will endure the
legal trials over this. I am appalled by the protests that are spewing such hate
yet they proclaim to be accepting of all. The truth is they are accepting as
long as you agree with their point of wview.
I'm neither gay nor Mormon. I don't like either one of you. You both belong in
It really comes down to this:Those of you who voted YES on Prop 8
believe you know what God truly wants, because you read it in a book.Those of you who voted No on Prop 8 just want gay marriages to be treated as
100% equal to heterosexual marriages. If you believe that the gay population
has all the rights all ready, under civil unions, then it should be no big deal
if we get rid of the concept of marriage and we all just have civil unions.
Sounds good to me, just along as everone is treated 100% the same.
This is a democracy. I do not like the outcome of the recent election, but I
will support the new president and the leaders of this nation. The voice of
the people has also spoken in the matter of Proposition 8 and the people of our
country need to respect that, or move to another country. I will always
believe that a marriage is between a man and a woman and GOD and always will be.
I will also always believe in our Country and the rights given to us in the
Constitution. It is time the protesters do the same.
Re: Wow @11:10Truth be told, there are right and wrong answers to most
basic moral questions.This is the difference between you and I. I have a
clear direction that I follow in this debate, you are confused with your own
I fail to see how the LDS Church can be accused of trying to force their
religious beliefs onto others. Shame on those you have tried to twist Joseph
Smiths words to prove that the Church is going against its own teachings. How have we tried to force our beliefs on others? The only thing the
Church has done was to ask the members in California to encourage their friends
and neighbors to support prop8. How is supporting a belief that marriage is
between a man and a women and has been supported by Muslims, Christians and Jews
for thousands of years, any sign that Mormons are attempting to force their
beliefs on others and using the ballot to do it.The idea of
separation of Church and State is nowhere to be found in the constitution. If
anyone can find it, please let us know. It does keep the government out of
religion though. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; How much plainer does it
need to be. As to tax except status threats, again read the constitution; OR
PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF
Since I never mentioned the US specifically and to turn the argument into "the
majority" again won that battle cause it was right is off the mark and lets not
touch on it since so many sacraficed is missing the point. I would simply
pointing out that we look back and see that Slavery, Women's rights, Civil
rights movement, Earth being flat and not being at the center of our creation
seem silly to us now but those people certainly and majority of them belived it
to be so or ok. It was a question, will we think this is silly say 100 years
from now? If you honestly believe that the human race didn't majority line of
thinking, even in this country, think slavery, womens rights, african americans
rights that the majority of the people were against them from the beginning whom
is the one in ignorance? It is I sir who am cringing and not buying "it was just
a concession." Since the majority of the founding father owned slaves. Again the
questions stand, Are the majority always right and will future generations look
back at our ignorance?
You are absolutely correct when you say "Just because a majority thinks they
know better doesn't make it right" but being in a free country means you have
to live by the majority's vote - even if it is wrong. That is the rule of law;
and if one day the majority chooses to allow gay marriage they will be just as
wrong as they are today.When the voice of the people chooses
something that God has forbidden than the entire nation will suffer God's wrath.
I am sorry that this is so hard for gay people (even though they still have the
same legal rights as straight people) but the voters have chosen to live
according to God's word in a Christian land. The founding fathers always meant
for this people to be virtuous and live by principals taught in the Bible.BTW, it is not self-righteous to vote for living by the commandments.
Relying on your own understanding and going against nature's laws and centuries
of procreative definition of marriage is. Sorry if you feel the way you do.
Your way of life cannot continue more than one generation by itself.
Here are some companies to watch out for:AppleLevi StraussGooglePG&E
These people are complaining about how rights are being taken away from them.
I've got news for you people. The law applies to everyone. The rest of us cant
be homosexual either. So, no, no rights are being taken away from you. You are
equal to the rest of us.These people are complaining about how they
are being discriminated against. I've got more news for you. As so many people
here have already pointed out, being gay is a choice. If you think you are being
treated unfairly, and if you dont like it, quit complaining and do something
useful about it. Notice the word useful. Dont go handing out propoganda, just
change and be heterosexual. There is absolutely nothing keeping you from doing
it.Lastly, many people are saying that the church was discriminated
against and hated for something that we could change as well, so we, of all
people, should know how it feels. Guess what! We decided to hold to our beliefs
and turn the other cheek. You are standing by your beliefs as well. But dont do
it by vandalizing and writing hate mail. If you want respect, show us that you
But, the gay agenda people (as a whole) have NOT shown that respect, civility,
or love back. They have not acted equally. They want equality, but refuse to
show it in return when they don't get their way.This whole thing is
NOT about equality. Section 297.5 (a) of the CA Family Code says homosexuals
have the same rights, duties, and responsibilities as heterosexual couples.
Where is the discrimination? They already have the same rights so their argument
there is hollow.
It's ignorant to suggest that Mormons alone pushed prop 8 through. California
has 36 million citizens, 750,000 of which are Mormon. What about the other 35
million Californians? Didn't they count. In this country we all have to live
with the will of the majority... for good or bad. Respect for rights? Gay
marriage is not an established right. Free speach is, and that's what the Mormon
church was doing. Pretty hypocrital if you ask me. "Tolerence" should go both
Clearly, many things will not change. The LDS Church will never reverse its
position, as many have outwardly spoken. Even though Mormons might be a
majority, they clearly made their voice heard in the campaigning.What fundamental LDS members fail to understand is that the LGBT people are
not asking for special rights. The argument that traditional marriage has
always been so is not true. There have been many kinds of marriages --- but I
won't go there now.Second, the LGBT community, as of right now, does
not have equal rights under the law. Standing many times in Sacrament meetings,
I have heard it say that "they are ok with unions, as long as they do not call
it marriage." However, do LDS members come in droves to protect the rights of
the LGBT community? No, they do not. But when it comes to limiting their
rights, they vote and campaign fiercefully. Is there an unspoken message
here?While this Prop might have failed now, society is changing.
This was a slim margin clearly showing how society is changing from the 2000
Prop 22. We will hold our ground. While we may not agree, we will gain our
OK, it's as simple as this:Those of you who voted YES on Prop 8 fear
God more than man.Those of you who voted No on Prop 8 fear man more
Utah is full of ignorance. Why do people here seem to think they are always
right, that there is no other right answers in the world? Truth be told, there
is not a right answer to every question. I see self-righteous people
on both sides of the issue. It is you, the extremes, that cause hatred between
the two fractions. Everyone has a right to their own beliefs, but you cannot
enforce them on another group.J. Wright: You are the city on the
hill as far biogtry goes. And you, my friend, cannot take away the right of a
homosexual's right to choose to love whomever they please.
Why are people screaming that the issue is about gay rights, when:1. No
rights are actually being taken away.a. If you are homosexual, you may
still voteb. If you are homosexual, you may still own weapons.c. If
you are homosexual, your partner under the domestic partnership law, still
protects as if a spouse.d. If you are homosexual, no person will prevent
you from using the term marriage though you are legally a domestic partner. 2. Polygamists are equally if not more effecteda. Under the amendment,
no polygamists may legally marry since by definition polygamists seek out 1 man
and multiple women.b. Under the domestic partnership laws, no woman may
marry another woman if she is already married to a man. So, the domestic
partnership is bigoted against polygamists.
Do we really believe that slavery was ever a majority issue? Or was it a
concesssion to create "these United States." Every time I hear the argument
posed by Roger above... "Lets take a look back at some of the thing the
"majority" thought was right....slavery...most people would say should have
known better." ... I cringe. Roger, the majority eventually went to war to
eliminate slavery because they never believed it was right. Many paid the
ultimate price. Most of us don't see gay marriage as being equivalent to the
whole civil rights movement and most of us, mormon or otherwise, are not buying
the whole gay marriage as a basic human right thing.
There have been about 85,000 posts in response to this piece, and I don't know
if I've read even one that mentioned God's will on the subject.The
reason members of the LDS faith went after Prop 8 so heavily is not becuase they
don't want flamers to have any rights. It has to do with their belief that
homosexual marriage is a grevious sin in the eyes of God and hence, destructive
on society.It would be like a group of Mormons wanting to write a
future propostion to ban alcohol. Do you think their wouldn't be any resistance
and demonstrating against the idea from the other side? As sure as hell their
What???????????? Out of the 900+ comments, by far, that one is the most
I am a teacher and a library student in CA and I can personally testify that we
are ALREADY BEING REQUIRED to teach gay agenda stuff--it's been in the social
studies curriculum for YEARS (so you can't exempt your kid). Libraries have
gay-promotion as part of their agenda as well. As to closing doors of
charities, it has already happened in MA. And churches in Canada have already
been forced to do gay marriages. The Church and the prophet did not
lie--prophets are forthtellers as well as foretellers. We were merely warned by
those who know about what might have happened should 8 have failed.
The gay community threatened that it will use education of our children to get
their way. Once children have been taught that being gay/gay marriage is okay,
they will vote that way. It is called brainwashing. The activist judges
overturned Prop 22 so that they could honestly claim discrimination--thus
villifying people who took a yes stand. The fact that we went from 61% to only
52% tells us that their agenda is already working. We need to be very afraid
for our nation and keep fighting for righteousness lest evil prevail. See
The irony of this whole thing is overwhelming!We, the LDS, have not rights
to our religious believes??? Because we don't agree with yours???What in the world are you talking about?I have a right to believe
that God doesn't agree, in fact dispises, the thoughts of homosexuality. I believe the scriptures, as do the Catholic, Protestants, Methodists,
Church of Christ, etc etc etcAnd also thanks to you all, many more
will become interested in our religion because they too see homosexuality as a
perversion. So what you are doing ends up in our favor. And to you professors at the U of U who hold your students grades in your
hands according to if they agree with your philosophy of supporting the gay
rights for a better grade ... Shame on you for your discrimination! Yeah ..
this is an OBVIOUS example of DISCRIMINATION.
Years ago, my wife and I were having a conversation about persecutions that the
church and it's members may have to endure in the coming years. It was hard to
believe things could go negative. The church was receiving a lot of positive
press throughout the world. It's future, as far as public opinion was
concerned, looked bright. We talked about the Presidency's statement,
The Family, Proclamation to the world, the timing of it, (1995) and why it is so
important. We felt that God inspired our prophet to bring this forth to
reeducate it's members and prepare them for upcoming events. This Proclamation
makes very clear Gods will for the church and it's members.The gays will
continue to move with their agenda to have gay marriage and adoption legalized,
and legitimize their lifestyle through Hollywood, media, and public
education.The Church and it's faithful members will continue to support
marriage and the family, and oppose those things that are detrimental to this
institution and society as a whole.Although we may be persecuted for our
stand, we will also continue to grow with added membership of those who share
our ideals and love of family.
Homosexuality = Gender Identity ConfusionAll the 'gay marriages' in
the world won't change that simple truth.All the picketing in the
world won't change that for homosexuals on a personal level.You
cannot take away others right to choose. You cannot control their minds and
hearts to accept your confusion. You can only deal with it on a personal
level.You have chosen a dark and dreary path one in which there is
no right turns. You cannot reproduce so you must recruit and therein lies the
truth. You must recruit from children of heterosexuals. I don't believe that
you would want this lifestyle for your own children. You would not inflict the
misery you suffer on your own innocent progeny.Look to the
Light...Only God can heal you.
To my fellow LDS members. We obviously are supporters of Prop 8. However, I
think that we need to be very careful about the way that we respond to some of
these posts. Remember, the few can make it look like they represent the masses.
We are taught to be respectful I think that we can do a better job of that.
Reach out with love, not with cutting words. We may not have the same views,
but we can be civil and friendly.
The irs code talks about CANDIDATES not propositions.
The church to me seems to be the most pro-marriage organization in the world,
not the most anti-gay. According to most Californians marriage is defined
between a man and woman, not two guys or two girls, but one of each. Ah, what a
day, finally. Quit getting it mixed up people, just accept what happened and
live your life in your own closet!
Nearly every law we have is based on religion. Read the Ten Commandments and
you'll find the basis for our laws against murder, stealing, perjury, etc. To
suggest that people can't vote according to their Church's teachings is to deny
us our right.Whether or not gay marriage will hurt society is very
difficult to know at this time. Many turn to their own wisdom and 'compassion'
when making their vote. Many others, including myself turn to God for the
answer because we don't trust the wisdom of man.We know you do the
same and do not fault you when you vote against giving rights to bear arms. You
think it's better for society and we get that and never claim that if the
majority felt that way the laws would be constitutional.The left's
denial for us to vote as we see is best for society is the real oppression of
rights and I strongly object.
Nasty and Self-righteous?))Sounds like you are describing the Liberal Gay
Activists.I know that these Gay Activists will continue to 'kick
against the pricks' until the millennium.If God asked me what I did
in this life?I can say that I voted against Gay marriages and
Abortions./Maybe that might get me in the door.... yo!
When the prophet speaks, the thinking may NOT have been done. It is good to see
protests in front of church buildings. It should have happened years ago.
I love the "argument from majority" that so many people here use in this state.
Just because a majority thinks they know better doesn't make it right. I wonder
if this issue in future generations will look back and say, "they should have
known better." Lets take a look back at some of the thing the "majority" thought
was right....slavery...most people would say should have known better. The
church of all people should know what its like to be thrown under the bus for
"marriage" issues. They certainly weren't in the majority then. There is an
inhert flaw in putting a vote to the public were the majority can impose its
will on the minority. The majority time and again isn't always right...I guess
cause "God" said so the earth is still flat and we are at the center of his
creation.."they should have known better?" Slavery, womens rights, interracial
marriage, etc all sound rediculious and we think we are so superior in our
morality yet I argue we still wear the same blinders.
There is a major difference between religious marriage and civil
marriage......my partner and I are Roman Catholic...we would fight for our
church's right to not recognize our relationship...the Pope has primacy in our
faith, though we don't agree with him -- he is the law of the RC church. However, we will fight for our civil rights to be full citizens in our
state. Seperate but equal is not equal in civil law in the United States -- see
Brown v Board of Ed 1954. We will prevail in the courts and we've come
extremely close even with this vote because THE US IS NOT A THEOCRACY as much as
some people would like that to be true. Individual rights have always
ultimately prevailed in this country---read the history.
Are all Mormons this nasty and self-rightous?
There are more homosexuals in the world than Mormons by far. Do you want us to
vote on your religion?
"I think its inappropriate in most cases to be quoting scriptures to these
people that are already feel hurt by this situation.I fully support
Propostion 8 and donated to the cause but rubbing it in by reading scriptures
that make you sound like their personal judge seems against the counsel of our
church to not vilify or be disrespectful in this situation.Please be
careful about how you talk to our brothers and sisters and remember to be
respectful."Thanks for this post. Unfortunately, self-righteousness
has overtaken the proud. Or maybe pride has overtaken the self-righteous.
Bigotry, particularly in the name of Jesus, is never justified. The Inquisition
was based on the same logic. So were the Salem witch trials and Cotton Mather.
The amendment to define marriage took away NO civil rights from anyone. If you
are homosexual, you may still vote. If you are homosexual, you may still own a
firearm and etc. Again, no civil rights were lost. You also retain the same
rights under the domestic partner law, which unmarried heterosexual couples may
not participate, as married spouses. The only difference is that your
committed and legal relationship remains a domestic partnership while a
heterosexual couple is either only "shacking up" or is equally legally protected
as the domestic partnership and married.
I've been undecided on this issue, but now watching the reaction of the gay
community to a legal and fair vote of the people I cannot choose their side. It
is obvious the gay agenda goes far beyond this ballot. Thankd you for your
immature handling of the loss...it tells me all I need to know about your
complete lack of character, and morals. Would the "Mormons" be acting like this
if prop 8 had been defeated? No.
If the Lord teaches us not to judge one another, then why do we have courts and
Read the following and then, other than reinterpreting the word marriage, what
legal right was lost?297.5. (a) Registered domestic partners shall
have the same rights,protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to
the sameresponsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether
theyderive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules,government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sourcesof
law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses.
Do the gay activist watch the news. Fox news reported that the reason Prop 8
passed was because the african-american people turned out in record numbers to
vote for Obama. These people have high family values and believe marriage
should be between a man and a woman and they voted that way. Its just not the
LDS church that have these values but the majority of americans believe this
way. Gay activist want tolerance and understanding but they do not show any
towards other groups.
The LDS was the major money and manpower force behind passing Prop 8. Be proud,
you bought and paid for it. But with actions come consequences, the LDS Church
is now officially the most anti-gay organization in this nation.
We don't care THAT YOUR'VE LEFT THE CHURCH it's YOUR MORTALITY THAT YOU'VE LOST
BUDDY !!! TALK TO THE LORD WHEN THE SECOND COMING COMES !!!THE
CHURCH WILL CONTINUE TO GROW WITH OR WITHOUT YOU BUT YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE AND it's
your loss really !!!IT'S FUNNY THAT THE MORMONS ARE THE ONES BEING
ATTACKED MORE THAN THE GAYS MAYBE THEY SHOULD BE THE ONES PICKETING !!! OTHER
RELIGIONS WERE PART OF THIS TOO ???
OF COURSE EVERYONE IS GOING TO PICK ON THE LDS CHURCH ! BECAUSE THE LDS CHURCH
STANDS FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE AND THEY DON'T WAIVER FOR NOBODY ! NOT CELEBRITIES
OR ANYTHING OF THE WORLD !I LOVE THIS CHURCH !!!!
To @ Plain and Simple:Up until last Tuesday gay couples had
the legal right to marry in California . . .Marriage, along with being a
symbolic act to formalize a commitment made by a couple, is firstand
foremost a civil issue.. . . Please define marriage for me. Here is my
definition a unionbetween a man and a woman as husband and wife. Therefor
by definition gay couples cannotmarry. They have a civil union. The fact
that you and your partner have been together for 25years and want the same
rights and protections has been granted in the California Family Code. Iam assuming you are a Californian since Prop 8 only affected citizens of that
To Boyd Henderson:"God said it is not good for man to be alone."
You conveniently left out what God did about it. May I remind you he created
Eve, a woman not a man. If you would look in any dictionary you would see that
marriage is a union of a man and a woman as husband and wife. By definition
gays cannot be married. They can live together and if they have enough clout as
in California they even can get laws passed to give them all the same rights and
privileges as married people. So it is not about rights but about what they
call their living arrangement that has sparked all the protests.
Being straight doesn't mean you get special rights either! The bigoted majority
who voted in California's Prop 8 have crossed the line between church and state
FORCING THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEF into law. They are saying that others who do not
share their belief or even churches who support gay marriage may not do so. That
is immoral, unconstitutional, and downright selfish and evil. Your religious
freedoms ends where my civil rights begin.
To Anonymous at 10:45 a.m.: Marriage has always been defined between a man and
a woman, in all societies and religions. They numbers may have changed at times
depending on the society and religion (See Old Testament and Muslim to name two
others besides early Mormonism), but it was never with members of the same sex.
The coalition is not going away.The Prop 8 California coalition of
protectmarriage will stay together to defned marriage. GLAD is mad they have a
political challenge. They thought they held all the political clout over our
elected officials. We will hold elected officials accountable. We will be
watching the mayors of Los Angeles and San Diego, assembleymen and state
senators who ignored the will of the people and sued the very people who elected
them. For too long the gay community has held them hostage. They have no
family and lots of free time to lobby and strategize. We have found our voices
now and will be heard. We might have families to take care of, kids to take to
soccer practice and other interests besides our jobs. However, we have learned
how to manage our time to devote to a cause that is just. We are not going
away. We have as much resolve and tenacity as our opponents, who with their
tantrums have awakened a sleeping giant. We will challenge every unjust
judicial decision, every school board member who promotes the disintegration of
marriage and every other politician you thought you had in your back pocket.
To Blue: Nice dodge of the question. If name calling is your best shot no
wonder you side can't win on the arguments when put to the vote of the people.
patty 4:27you have some unresoved issues. I sugest calling Dr. loura on monday.
did you read the post delivered at the same time "did anyone ask the
blacks?". this teacher gave a stark response from her research. you should ask
some blacks why they supported prop 8 like this good teacher did. blacks
and hispanics voted overwellmingly in support of prop 8. the no on prop 8 should
look at there actions in the black urban communities as a source of defeat. stop spewing hate against the mormons. a little over $2000 doesn't seem like a
reason to show so much hate against mormons.
To reason: What is your source of Mormons giving 40% of the money for Prop 8.
Do you people just pick a number and we are all supposed to accept it as a fact?
To John: Define marriage. If you use the word as we know it from any
dictionary it is impossible for two person of the same sex to be married. What
they have is a civil union. No one is taking their right away from being
together. We merely ask to let words mean what they mean and stop trying to
change the language until we no longer understand one another.
Gays will never be satisfied because they know what they are doing is wrong and
they just want another way to justify their actions... hate to break it to you,
but prop 8 or any other law will never satisfy your insatiable appetites for
that which unnatural. Yep i said unnatural, face the facts of your problem by
yourself and quit making it everyone elses problem!
To Straight Guy for Gay Rights: You define marriage and you will get the good
reason you are looking for.
to sureshot 2:16you say that you do not have the same rights as
"married" people. civil unions gives you every right a married person has with
the lone exception of the name. why do you feel that you are being
discriminated against? because prop 8 vacated the special protections and case
law you needed to push your agenda forward and down the necks of unsupecting
people.How can you say that you should have the same leagle
protections granted minorites espcailly African-Amaricans. have you gone through
what that community had gone through simply for having more skin pigment. how
about women and the handicaped. they are easy to see and understand why they
were granted special protections the kind the california supream court gave the
homosexual communities.the only way to identify a homosexual is by
his or her, its behavior. that is why the vast majority of minorites blacks and
hispanics voted for prop 8. so why attack or protest against the
church. maybe because mormons have been discriminated against more than any
other religious organization in this nation. maybe because they get a pass for
attacking mormons.so just how is bigited here? it's not the mormons.
Think for a moment.If we allowed a small state like NH to have only
married gay couples. Refused to let any gay couples in that state adopt
children.Within 2 generations all the married gay couples in NH would be
gone.Not quoting scripture- God didn't set up the Garden of Eden
with Adam marrying Bruce and Eve marrying Beth. This earth life we have
known would have ended. Satan knew it- God knew it.Sodom and
Gomorrah were destroyed for their own sakes.
Sadly, i suspect most of you posting on this site do not know a gay person - and
within your own families likely someone who is gay would not come out in such a
hostile environment. Likely these are your sons, daughers, brother, sisters, who
for reasons unclear to you leave the state, and go to NY or California to find
happiness and peace. So you all reinforce your beliefs and alleged "knowledge"
with each other, never gaining any fresh perspective from an intimate one to one
talk with maybe someone you love, who happens to be gay. If you had that talk, I
think your eyes would open to the subtle truths of what is universal - the need
to love, be accepted, and belief in your fellow man. This was what was all
shattered with Prop 8
I could not agree more with the comment posted above by "Hello my fellow
Mormons". It is true that Prop 8 is the correct choice, but by quoting scripture
especially the B.O.M we (as members of Gods true church) are, in a way, not
loving them, but bashing with them and one thing we can not do is convince them
of their sin. Love the sinner hate the sin!
why are the protestors complaining. A vote was put, all those wishing to vote
did so, and the outcome, legaland fair was not to their liking. Tough. It must
also be pointed out that LDS. are not the only religious group involved, so
where are the pickets outside other religious buildings??? Could it be because
"they", the pickets, know that the laws of God and of the mass of people are the
same. Marriage is between man and woman, always has been, and, one hopes,
always will be.
it seems to me that everyone is overlooking the fact that everyones rights have
been affected not just the GLBT community. I no longer have the right to marry a
man due to prop 8 just as any gay man. homosexuality is defined as a sexual
attraction to the same sex, they still have the right to marry an opposite sex
person, but choose to ignore this right of theirs because of where their sexual
preference lies. it seems all very ridiculous to me that laws should have to
argued around the sexual preference of a minority
Liberals always look to the courts to win what they cannot win at tha ballot
box.Want to be call a really bad name? Just disagree with a
liberal.Disagree with the gay activists and you are a homophobe.Disagree with Obama and you are a racists.Try to rein in the excesses of
Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac when they brought affirmative action to the mortgages
and you are a racists.Disagree with abortion and you are a sexist.They have names at the ready for every occasion.
See Re:Doodles - really meant for you.
Dear Doodles,Actually, our freedom was founded on Christian
principles. This is a Christian nation who's constitution was based on
principles found in the Bible. Your freedom was founded on Christianity and if
it weren't for God you would not even have your freedom.You don't
even know your country's own heritage. The Founding Father's always recognized
the hand of divine providence from the God of the Bible but shunned any
state-sponsored religion by a specific church.BTW, atheism or
humanism is its own religion so saying that you don't want to have Christian
values pushed on you is really saying you want to push your humanistic religions
on us - which will actually destroy the freedom of this country.If
you don't like living in a Christian land you don't have to live here.
Christians accept and love people from all religions but they don't have to give
up the values of religion our freedoms are founded on. You are free to practice
whatever kind of lifestyle you want, even if it is perverted but don't pervert
the values of this great country by changing its laws - keep it to yourself.
As posted by "To Doodles":"..how does allowing gays to marry damage
your society and your "Christian" virtues??"Allowing gays to
REDEFINE marriage to include same-sex relationships damages society first and
foremost by ceating the illusion that gay relationships contribute to subsequent
generations no differently than straight relationships. The former
cannot and will never contribute to child-bearing and raising in the same way
that the latter, as a man and a woman are crucial to creating a child in the
first place, and a mother and a father are both key components to that child's
well-being throughout life. Some traditional families are deprived
of such an ideal by circumstance, not choice. However, in all homosexual unions,
such a deprivation is purely by choice. The mindset that says, "One type of
parent (mother or father) is good enough for my kid" is borne out of
selfishness, not out of what's best for children. I'm a parent, and
there's no way on earth I'd ever wish upon my children (or other children) a
situation where they couldn't enjoy having parents of both sexes and realize the
unique contributions that only a father or only a mother could bring to their
People of various faiths can still love gays and lesbians unconditionally and
vote their conscious. Just because I don't want to teach my kids in school that
being gay is OK doesn't mean I don't love someone. That is a far-fetched
accusation that protecting my children means I don't have unconditional love.
Not supporting proposition would be unconditional stupidity and unconditional
irresponsibility on my part as a parent.By the way, I do have a love
for the infinite and a relationship with him as well as people of many faiths
and religions who voted down gay marriage. I am not sure who "the infinite" is
to you but if he is the god of the Bible then I don't think you understand the
scriptures so try reading them again. If he is another God then you should know
that this country is a Christian nation which was founded on Christian
principles. The founding fathers taught that the constitution was designed for
a virtuous, God-fearing people and would work for none-other. The People have
the ability to lose true freedom if they vote to do so against righteous
principles. Freedom was preserved.
the lord teaches us not to judge one another.
was in the beginning...for a man and a woman...it takes this to do that. That is
what marriage is all about and has been since the beginning. Marriage is fot
this and for raising and protecting the children of that marriage. How do two
men, or two women multiply and replenish the earth. Gay marriage is conterfiet
marriage in the sigtht of God, man, and His church. The mother of the human
race, created by God was Eve, not Steve. Get with it people. Just because they
want it does not mean that they should have it.
I think its inappropriate in most cases to be quoting scriptures to these people
that are already feel hurt by this situation.I fully support
Propostion 8 and donated to the cause but rubbing it in by reading scriptures
that make you sound like their personal judge seems against the counsel of our
church to not vilify or be disrespectful in this situation.Please be
careful about how you talk to our brothers and sisters and remember to be
Welcome to our lovely city. Notice the cleanliness, the courteous people, the
order and the unique beauty of our families. Our city was scratched out of the
desert by the ancestors of the citizens you are protesting. This grit is
generational as is the depth of our faith and our testimony. It is probably not
anything you will ever understand. We have been bullied before and grown
stronger. Our concerns are multi-generational and are more profound than you
could understand in a short commercial or soundbite. How arrogant and terrifying
to assume that one is wiser than thousands of years of tradition, not to mention
the Father of us all. How foolish to try to wipe out generations of wisdom in
one generation. Are your motives truly unselfish? I wonder. I wish you could
have seen the face of my teenage daughter that we adopted overseas a year ago
when I asked her if she would like to have been adopted by two moms or two dads.
It spoke volumes. By the way, if an earthquake leveled S.F.,I along with
hundreds of other Mormons would be on the frontlines helping you out. Can you
wrap your brain around that?
re: Revoke tax exempt status | 6:05 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008 Give me
a break. How many times did Obama, Cinton, ad naseum go to various democrat/left
leaning churches and blame Bush and other republicans for all of the evil that
is going on in this world. Yes, please IRS, go after ALL these
churches that decide to mix religion and politics. No exceptions.
Let's move on.
re: MoHo | 8:01 p.m. Nov. 8, 2008 Ditto.
This is crazy. So, you can't get married. Too bad so sad. The only reason why
most of the Gay/Lesbian population wanted this to pass was to have society
giving them a pat on the back a hey it's o.k. to live this type of lifestyle.
Well, at least you are not being attacked for your lifestyle choice just for
your wanting need to feel normal. Well, the masses have spoken and your
lifestyle choice isn't going to get the green light from the masses. Keep
living how you live; but, sorry marriage is between a man and a woman. Not a
man and a man or a man and a cat etc. By protesting it just shows that
you can't accept the facts. That even though a judge granted a right that he
didn't have the power to grant. That the checks and balances of the popular
vote vetoed his decision.
I'd like to thank all the out-of-state gay people who stayed in Salt Lake County
hotels for helping pay for RSL's new stadium.:OBring
more people next time - we need more TRT funds for the expo center/arts
district/acquarium/etc... My heartfelt apology to Utahns who havn't stayed in a
Utah hotel in the last 10 years who think THEIR tax dollars have gone to the
Our new elect president said it. Marriage is between a man and a woman. Thank
you very much
is that Religion is abolished from the face of the earth. I feel in my heart
that I have a relationship with the Divine Creator, however the religious dogma
that causes our world to be divided is nothing more than religion. My
experience of being a part of the Mormon Church for nearly ten years, is that
its members are fully commited to an organization and rarely do they have a
relationship with the Infinite. When we as a people can learn to love each
other unconditionaly without any strings attached, then and only then can we
grow as a people. When we continually want to prove that our way is the right
way, all we are doing is strengthening our egos. I have know ill will to any of
the Mormon population or the Mormon Church, it is all that you know.....When the
LDS Church is pushing their agenda on people who are not interested, people who
live their lives through spirit realize their egos are doing all the talking.
Have a great night....Love
Our "Non-member" friends here in California have been thanking us for all of the
work that we as members here did to get Prop 8 passed.
I am strong for PROP 8. I don't care if Gays marry, i really don't. I just
don't want my children being taught in school that this is natural. Its not. I
don't want children to be adopted into these gay marriages either. Its not fair
to the children. They have no choice. They end of having a dad and a dad, not
a dad and a mom. thats why I vote yes on 8
"I believe that those who choose to practice homosexuality damage themselves and
our society and its Christian virtues."Thats your belief- but
honestly how does allowing gays to marry damage your society and your
"Christian" virtues?? Seriously they are not the ones trying to take your rights
away! Personally I believe your opressive Christianity has done more to damage
our society- which was founded in freedom and justice for ALL.
The people spoke. Marriage is between a Man and a women. It has being and it
will be. If those people want to push that again. we Will defeat them. We are
the majority. Thank goodness.
Fact: The Church has made it clear, the Savior has made it clear in the
scriptures! What else needs to be said? If your LDS and you don't agree with the
Church, then you obviously don't agree with the Savior because you don't read
about what he says in the SCRIPTURES ON HOMOSEXUALITY. Therefore my suggestion
is you do 1 of 2 things: 1. Repent and be sorry and get your act together. 2.
Ask your bishop to have your name removed from the church records because you
obviously don't agree with the Church's doctrines, nor that of the SAVIORS
DOCTRINE! With that as the case you are in a very sad lot of selfishness and
denial of what the Savior has said since the beginning of time, and you are
being a student of the Devil and what he wants you to believe. If you have been
to the temple, go back and PAY CLOSE ATTENTION! Your being dupped my friends,
and selfishness and pride are controlling your thoughts, not humility,
compassion and love. So many accuse the Church and it's members of hate and
persecution, when quite the opposite is true, we feel for them, and love them.
Homosexuals have the right to choose, just like a woman has the right to choose.
A woman's right to choose "Abortion" is the wrong choice in my opinion, but she
has that choice. A gay person's choice to excercise his Gay tendancies to have
sex with someone of the same gender is his/her choice and nobody is trying to
prevent that although many believe it to be wrong. However trying to make it the
NORM to be "Married" as a husband and wife have had the RIGHT to be since the
beginning of time is WRONG and beyond acceptable in society. Why can't you just
be "gay" about your ability to have sex and a romantic relationship with someone
of the same sex? Why do you have to have this "In Your Face" attitude? It's
wrong, and the behavior is wrong, yet you push for more and more and more. GIVE
IT UP! Be happy with the perversions you excercise now, stop trying to push it
down our throats! Your downfall shouldn't be the downfall of the whole society!
Let them be gay. There's no future in it. It will die out with each individual
After reading all 17 pages of comments on this story this evening, I want to say
just a few things. When a man and a woman commit socially,
financially and sexually to one another, our word for that commitment is
"marriage." That is what it is called. Two men or two women making
a sexual committment to one another is called "homosexuality," meaning one sex.
Among religious people of all major faiths and through all recorded time, this
has been a sexual perversion and a sin.I personally object to
allowing sodomy to be enshrined in law and to call it marriage. I am a
Christian and believe the Bible and it's teachings on homosexuality. I take
serious issue with the anonymous post that proclaimed "Our country wasn't
designed to enforce the Bible." That is not true. The motto of the United
States of America is "In God We Trust." I believe that those who
choose to practice homosexuality damage themselves and our society and its
Christian virtues. I believe that homosexuals have the right to
choose, for themselves. They also have consequences for their choices.Many of the comments on these 17 pages are heartbreaking to me.
Since most people here are stuck in the past, I have observed far more parallels
to the corrupt Pharisees from the Mormons than I have observed parallels to
Christ's teachings. Just my personal observation.
Hey "Mormons Out," can I have job?? I'm tired of having to lie about my gentile
status in job interviews.
I wonder why we supported Prop 8... hmmm, maybe because it's an abomination
before God and flat out disgusting.
For those who keep saying how hypocritical it is for the church to say they
believe in acceptance and love for all and then urge members to vote for prop 8,
let me fill you in. We are NOT taught to accept and love sin. We are taught to
love all mankind, but not sin! We believe the bible and it teaches that
homosexuality is an abomination before God. God does not change or He would
cease to be God. Therefore, the church will not change its' views on
homosexuality no matter how many protest or even how many members are upset by
this. Protesting won't change anything, it just stirs the pot.
I am LDS, and if I had been a resident of CA, I would have voted Yes on 8, too.
Marriage is a sacred ordinance, between a man and a woman. It should stay that
way. Let gays have civil unions, with legal rights, but not marriage. The
past few days, since the Election, have been sad for me. I supported Barack
Obama, and I'm very happy he won, but I have lost a friend over it, who thinks
Mormons can't be Democrats, and have the Spirit with them. Then, when I
heard about the vandalism at the Los Angeles Temple, and saw the pictures on the
news, I cried. I have never seen as much hate and bigotry as
happened with this Election. The anti-Mormon sentiment was rampant with
Romney's candidacy. Then, the videos of Republican rallies,with threats against
Obama, fear and bigotry because of his name, lies and smears, etc. made me sick.
Now this, one of the Temples being forced to shut down, by a mob of angry
protesters who didn't get their way! Satan is alive and well, and
feeding on all the contention. Is persecution far behind?
Don't forget that Connecticut now ALSO allows gay marriages, not just
I live in CA and worked to pass Prop. 8 - and reading all the comments above, I
am amazed at the lack of factual information some of you have. To "Ashamed to
have ever been a Mormon", please find out the correct information before you
write. Yes, indeed, the California Education Code says that marriage will be,
and is now,taught in schools. If the "NO" vote had won, new text books and new
curriculn materials etc. would have to be provided for all public schools. And
yes, there is a distinct possiblility that, if the "no" proposition had passed,
churches would be required to perform gay marriages, or lose their right to
perform marriages. No doubt you would love to see no more temple marriages in
California temples?? It seems to me that the gay community has given themselves
special names, and set themselves aside in special groups etc. -- why can't the
gay community create a name special to themselves for the civil unions already
permitted that would make it their own special "marriage"? Under the civil union
provision, they already have all the civil rights that a man/woman marriage
Great! TRUE marriage has been defended, and the gay agenda has been revealed for
what it REALLY is.I live in California, and I got to vote YES on Prop. 8.
It felt GREAT. Marriage isn't about two people in love wanting to share their
lives together. A civil union accomplishes that. Marriage is about bringing
kids into the world (that takes a man and a woman) and ASSURING kids' rights to
having a male role-model and a female role-model. Marriage isn't about rights,
it's about what is RIGHT, and "gay marriage" isn't it. You may eventually
legalize it and gain worldly acceptance and validation, but it will NEVER be
right in the eyes of God.
Hey the last time I checked the Bible's first marriage was between Adam and Eve,
not Adam and Steve!
Those who continue to protest against prop 8 are only hurting themselves. When
they deface private property and yell hateful things to to anyone who disagrees
with them, it only makes me feel stronger about keeping the definition of
marriage only between a man and a woman. Go home to CA or maybe you should move
RE: Eliza 9:37pmThat's a well thought out, intelligent comment. I
like your plan. Count me in.Hopefully we can all be civil to one
another on the inevitable path to acceptance.Most of the things
being said here (on both sides of the argument) would NEVER be said if we were
all in the same room together.
I think the LDS Church is the only organization in the world who can elicit
protests and picketing from both the evangelical community and gay rights mob
(though for very different reasons, of course). On that basis alone we must be
doing something right. Should make for an exciting General Conference next
spring! Life is good!
Who was the lousy 'HR' director that states they fire people based on religious
beliefs? If you think this is an idea that helps your company, you may want to
publicize it as a special advantage that consumers would want from you. Don't
let it being not only unethical but also illegal stop you, convince them how
much morally superior you are that you can make such a decision against the laws
of the land and probably the policies of your own company.
Stop deluding,If you are wary of the results of modern research, you
may hastily look up the current statistics on the online encyclopedia of your
preference under "homosexuality." There you can also be informed of the sources
of the research conducted.
I truly believe it is only a matter of time before the resolution is made that
the government's only duty is to grant couples civil liberties thus giving civil
unions to both heterosexual and homosexual life partners. Let
marriage be governed different from church to church. The abstract criteria and
ideals of the label of "marriage" can be left for the institutions from which
they came to sort out. If marriage is sought, a couple could then go find a
church which welcomes them, giving same-sex couples a number of options (i.e.
Episcopal, MCC).I can see no other solution which would appease
everyone, a solution for which we should all be striving together.
I hate California anyways. Let's put it for a vote in Utah
Charlotte,"Modern research has concluded that between 2 and 7
percent of people are exclusively homosexual, not 1 in 3, as you stated." 7% of U.S. population is approximately 21,079,796 or an average of
421,595 people per state. Your statistics are really screwed up if
you think that many people have been proven to be exclusively gay. A 7%
exclusively gay population would result in a drastic decrease in our population
over the years. California's population is 36,553,215. The adult population of
California is 26,100,000 which would mean that 7% of the population of
California who are gay would be 2,558,725. If that was true then this vote
should have easily went no on Prop. 8. Just over 10 million people voted in
California which means that a dedicated population of 2.5 million would be half
of their total vote.This numbers may not be 100% correct but you get
the message. For 7% of the population to be gay would have results in a) this
proposition overwhelmingly passing or a very high percentage of heterosexuals
are opposed to same-sex marriage, and b) with that kind of population being
exclusively gay it would result in a drastic population decrease.
My questions for the the "No on Prop 8" protesters: Do you need the state to
tell you you're married? Do you need the state to validate your relationship and
by extension your sexuality? Do you need everyone to approve of your lifestyle?
My advice to you is to accept yourselves and stop asking others to accept you.
I can't understand just what rights that they are talking about? I don't have
the right to marry another man, my wife doesn't have the right to marry another
woman. There is no unequal treatment. Besides, nobody is saying eliminate
domestic partnerships, they just don't want the definition of marriage to be
destroyed. Why all the fuss? Can't the GLTC let it be? In my opinion it's them
trying to destroy my right to marriage (husband and wife).
Since the Mormons were not the only ones to vote against the proposition are you
treating the Catholics,Latinos and the African Americans, etc the same at your
company. I hope that one of your "lay-offs" is reading these
comments and figures out who you are and then takes legal steps to handle it!
Sophie,"The LDS church was singled out because they gave the largest
percentage of financial support to support prop 8 and were very public about it.
Their intolerance simply had a boomerang effect."The LDS Church
didn't donate any money to support Prop. 8 except to make a single in-kind
donation of $2,078.97 to cover the travel expenses for Church leaders who went
to California.On the other hand the U.S. Conference of Catholic
Bishops donated $200,000 and the Knights of Columbus donated $1 million. In
addition the California Conference of Catholic Bishops issued the following
statement "...we strongly encourage Catholics to provide both the financial
support and the volunteer efforts needed for the passage of Proposition 8." The LDS Church issued a similar statement and some members chose to
respond to that request. Others did not.If you take the total $27
million that individual Mormons donated and divide it by an average of $5,000
(some would have given more and some less) we arrive at a total of 5,400 Mormons
donating to Yes on Prop. 8. Thats a small percentage of the Church's
membership.No matter how you look at it. The Church played a very
The number of Mormon people in California is irrelevant. It's the amount of
financial support that the Mormons donated to the "Yes on 8" campaign which has
made them the target of protest. Try to use a little logic.
Over 800 comments on this article alone. I get the feeling that neither side is
going to budge; yet both sides blame the other. I am convinced that the LDS
church will not get the Lord to change his mind. I am convinced that
gays/lesbians as a group are not going to quietly go away. What are we going to
To: not even a minorityModern research has concluded that between 2
and 7 percent of people are exclusively homosexual, not 1 in 3, as you
stated.Even if it were lower than 1 percent, it is unconstitutional
to vote to ratify legislation that oppresses a minority without the 2/3 majority
of legislators at the very least. Our founding fathers knew this and designed
our constitution for these very situations. It's Constitution 101. Prop 8 will
Hey Warrior heart,The LDS Church has not done ANYTHING to promote
hatred to these guys. The only thing the Church has done is to reaffirm their
position that marriage should be between a man and a woman. It's amazing that we
even have to define that, but this is how crazed the left has gotten.On the other hand, you've got these crazies running around, threatening lives,
name calling (homophobic, bigoted, narrow-minded, etc.), parking vans outside of
prop 8 supporters homes with signs accusing the occupants of being all kinds of
things, vandalizing LDS temples, mocking doctrines and buildings that are sacred
to LDS, threatening to hire private investigators to look into the lives of prop
8 supporters, and so on. Why? Because some LDS chose to exercize their
constitutional rights of expression and political action?THIS IS
TOLERANCE? THIS IS FREE SPEECH? The left has no intention of tolerance/free
speech. They want us to accept their ideals, and we can just cram it. Well, for
one, I don't accept that pathetic arrangement.
Go get married in Mass. or Conn. it's still legal there. If gays want to get
married, do it, I don't care, just don't bring your issues into the classroom
and into my children's lives, they have enough to deal with, they don't need to
hear about men being with men blah blah blah. I don't want to be the one to
explain how that works because some teacher has to explain it in school
I was happy to be a volunteer for the Yes on 8 campaign and to donate my time
and money. People of all faiths joined with us to help pass this important
proposition.I'm told there are about 750,000 LDS people in Calif.
and there were over 5 million "yes" votes cast. Obviously there are other
people who believe that traditional marriage is what they want for society.This is the SECOND Calif. vote! Prop 22 passed in 2000 at 61% and now
again in 2008 at 52%!The African American vote was 7 to 3 in favor
of this proposition. The Latino vote was 53% in favor of Prop 8. If
Prop 8 had not passed I don't see all of us going up to West Hollywood, Long
Beach, Laguna Beach or San Francisco to protest. We would accept the will of
the people. Those protesting obviously are not. They were so convinced this
would not pass.The people who are protesting have no idea how much
support that people of other faiths are showing to those of us who are LDS
during this time. They are shocked at the outlash toward the Mormons.
To: not even a minorityIf we follow your logic, why should
California, with over 30 million residents, listen to a tiny sect like
Mormonism? Get over it yourself!
"The ProtectMarriage coalition, which led the successful campaign to pass
Proposition 8, was an historic alliance of people from every faith and
ethnicity. LDS were included but so were Catholics and Jews, Evangelicals and
Orthodox, African-Americans and Latinos, Asians and Anglos."Only 2%
of the population of California are Mormons. That is a small part of the
population. If LDS Church had that much power don't you think there would be a
bigger percentage of LDS members in California? 52% of the population passed
this law. Do the math 52%-2%(LDS)= 50% that is non LDS!
Between stealing, vandalism, slandering, attempted intimidation, death threats,
singling out scapegoats, and other forms of hate, these people are starting to
make totalitarian regimes look pathetic. The wiser step would have been simply
to go to the California polling places and destroy any ballots with 'Yes' votes
(which would have been congruent with their lack of respect for democracy).
Marriage is a religous institution not a political. Twenty years ago the gay
community called marriage an antiquated instition from the dark ages. So now
they have to have it. What changed....oh that's right the money. Now they want
the insurance money. So much for principles.
To: A friendThe LDS church was singled out because they gave the
largest percentage of financial support to support prop 8 and were very public
about it. Their intolerance simply had a boomerang effect.
A friend,"It is so amazing to me that the LDS Church was the only
one singled out --there were many other religions that participated in the Prop
8 results--please lets at least be fair!!!!!"There is over 11
million Catholics in California compared to a mere 900,000 or so Mormons. The
U.S. Conference of Bishops donated $200,000 in support of Prop. 8 while the LDS
Church made a single in-kind donation of $2,078.97 to cover the travel costs of
Church leaders who attended a meeting in California. There's a
difference between targeting a Church who represents less than 2% of the
population for supporting Prop. 8 while not protesting the Catholic Church that
makes up about 34% of the population of California for its support of Prop.
8?They see the LDS Church as the low-hanging fruit which they can
pick off to teach others that they will destroy anyone who doesn't bow down and
worship them. The Church isn't afraid though and will not be intimidated. We see
this for what it is. Intolerant bigoted tyrants who want to deny the majority
its freedoms and rights by trying to change the law by minority fiat.
Gays have the same rights as everyone else, including marriage to an
opposite-gender partner as is granted to everyone else. What they are demanding
and trying to intimidate others for are special privileges to redefine society
in their image. Why do they assume that their sexuality should give them special
status above and beyond other Americans?
Prop 8 passed! Time to accept it!You could always move to MASS to get
married!Remember and never forget that, Marriage is ORDAINED OF GOD!We will keep all of you protestors in our prayers, God knows you need them!It's really sad to see the reaction be so hateful and violent especially in
Los Angeles!By their fruits ye shall know them!!
The belief that 10 percent of the population is homosexual is based on
discredited research done by Indiana University zoologist Dr. Alfred Kinsey in
the mid-20th century. More recent research puts the number between 1 and 3
percent. Why should 1 - 3 percent of the US population tell the other
99-97 percent of us how we should perform our marriages.The state of
California handled this correctly,52 percent said NO-Just ** LIVE
WITH IT. **
It is so amazing to me that the LDS Church was the only one singled out --there
were many other religions that participated in the Prop 8 results--please lets
at least be fair!!!!! The LDS Church made a proclamation on the family and what
constitutes a family long before Prop 8 was ever a consideration--why not defend
a belief and not let a minority of people decide what is right and what is
wrong!!! The LDS church has spoken--please respect its views.
Let's get real here,"There were about 11 million people who voted on
this prop 8. Over 5.5 mill voted to over turn it. Do you really think the LDS
church had that much influence over this."Not when we have less than
a million members in California and the Church only made one in-kind donation of
$2,078.97 to pay for the travel of Church leaders to attend a meeting in
California."There's probably not even one million members in
that state."There isn't. There just a little over 900,000 and not
all of them are qualified to vote, registered nor did all of them vote and some
didn't support Prop. 8."Marching on Temple Square over this result
is just plan stupid by these folks."It also shows their willingness
to terrorize anyone who disagrees with them and has the audacity to vote in a
way they don't permit us to. Furthermore, our in-kind donation doesn't come
anywhere near what the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops donated.As for individual Mormons choosing to donate to support Prop. 8. That is their
right and the Church didn't force them to. I didn't donate a single dime to
I am all for civil unions myself, just as long as it's the only option for
heterosexual couples as well.
There were about 11 million people who voted on this prop 8. Over 5.5 mill voted
to over turn it. Do you really think the LDS church had that much influence over
this. There's probably not even one million members in that state. Most are
just free thinkers and are not going to listen to the LDS church anyways. Most
people voted yes to overturn it because that's they way they personally believe
it should be. Marching on Temple Square over this result is just plan stupid by
LOL...Oregon celebrates pioneer day too. We are so glad they stopped
When the Church steps into the political arena, which is an unfair arena by
definition, it should expect this sort of thing. No one made the Church be so
public about Prop. 8 except the Church; it got itself into this mess.
ProgressivePerson,"I for one find the Church's actions in this
situation very hypocritical. They name their church after Jesus Christ yet there
is absolutely nothing Christ-like about their behavior in this matter. Jesus
Christ was a compassionate man who loved and accepted all-lepers,sinners, and
homosexuals." Jesus didn't condone or approve of sin. He accepted
people who were repentant of their sins and did not judge them unless they
continued in sin."If homosexuality is indeed wrong as the Church
claims it to be, then homosexuals will be judged by God in the end. It is not
the role of mere mortals to pass judgement on their own."But you
seem intent on passing judgment on us but that is different isn't it because you
are always right and those of us who disagree with you must be demonized even
though the Church spent a mere 2,000 dollars while other religions spent 100
times that and I mean that literally since the U.S. Conference of Catholic
Bishops donated $200,000.I have no problem with gays living their
life as they choose but I will not stand by as they force their beliefs on
others and try to terrorize the majority.
How about we make "civil unions" the only thing the government does administer
(for everyone) and then leave the churches to do whatever they wish? You could
still give Catholic, Evangelical, etc. ministers the authority to perform
legally-binding civil unions and then they can follow up with any type of
ceremony they wish and call it whatever they like. Make everyone pay the same
fees for a civil union license, and give everyone the same legal status, and
everyone will have the same "civil right." Why are homosexuals so
bent on co-opting the word "marriage"? This is not about civil
rights as there are reasonable solutions (e.g. above) upon which a majority will
agree, especially in California. (Try going down South with your tirade--good
luck!.) This is all about "If you don't embrace my lifestyle, you are forcing
your lifestyle on me!" Push people long enough and they will push back. Back off
and talk.Unless your more moderate voices stand up in protest of the
hateful extremists currently leading your rabble, you will set your "movement"
back years. Cool off a bit and try to understand why you lost in three states.
(Please don't conclude it was the Mormons!)
NowAntiMormon,"Good job showing the world you are a bunch of
discriminatory, hateful people, who come from a long long history of abusive
religions. I hope you get your tax exempt status pulled."For what?
For our members voting in an election and donating of our own money to support
those causes we believe in? The actual Church made a single in-kind donation of
$2,078.97 to cover the travel of Church leaders who went to California to attend
a meeting."Shoving your beliefs down other peoples throats and
denying them the same basic human rights other enjoy is disgusting."It's you who are shoving your belief down our throat and want to force the
majority to obey you because you feel a minority has the right to change the law
even though you aren't discriminated under it. It is disgusting and you are
tyrant and a bigot. Now shut up and stop attacking those I love for our votes
and our rights.What are you going to do next? Stone an atheist to
death? Burn some women at the stake? Maybe start a mormon inquisition?
Bravo."So that is how you want to play it. You terrorize us.
And Gays/Lesbians think that this is a matter of civil rights, what about the
civil rights of Christians????? In Massachusetts, kindergarteners
are read books about homosexuality ending with men kissing men. "The King and
the King" One family wanted the ability to opt out on their children being
inside the classroom when homosexuality was discussed and the school officials
arrested the father. The parents are now home schooling their children.
How can the Mormon church, or any church for that matter, claim to have a
message of love and hope, when it chooses to make a minority feel unloved and
hopeless? If you kick a dog, the dog will eventually bite. Why be surprised
that a group that feels discriminated against is choosing to exercise their
right to protest? Why keep kicking a minority group down in the name of love
and hope? Where is the hope in this? Weren't we all made in "His image?" or
did I miss the fine print somewhere in my bible that says "Love Thy Neighbor,
unless they're gay." And did I also miss the part that says marriage is between
"A man and as many women as he wants." If you want to talk about
non-traditional marriage, the Mormon church defines it.
"Separation of church and state" isn't in the constitution of the United States.
Stop citing it as such.
To the 3:21 commentator, Polygamy is illegal in Utah. It is banned by
the Utah State Constitution, which may be the only state constitution that
contains such a ban. Your comment is one of the most irrelevant ones I
have read. The Utah State Constitution has banned plural marriage since it was
first written in 1895.
RE: Mormons out | 6:03 p.mI hope you are a troll posting on the DN
board because your company is going to have a lot of lawsuits coming their way.
I have worked for many companies who are "diverse" and offer benefits to gay
couples. It shows how petty you are if you are firing people based on their
religion and not workplace performance.Get over it and move on gay
marriage supporters. We are tired of you tearing down every single institution
that doesn't believe or support your beliefs and behavior. I doubt the DN has
this many gay readers. The pro-gay marriage posts on this article are from a
small group of individuals and others who hope the novice message readers get
pulled into believing their is a mass movement in Utah sympathetic to gay
marriage.Your right to marry in California is a fluke due to
judicial malpractice by judges who think they are smarter than everyone else in
PEOPLE! Pull it together! Take 5! We need to let this go and treat each other
like HUMANS again!MORMONS: You got your "one woman one man"
definition of marriage protected in one of the most liberal states in America.
Nice one.GAY COMMUNITY: "The Church" has, by their involvement, made
certain that people EVERYWHERE will be extremely vigilant the next time a stunt
like this gets pulled. And it's likely prop 8 will eventually be ruled
unconstitutional when it inevitably gets to the courts.In the
meantime, can we please remember that we are all US citizens entrusting our
future well being in one another? Is it so much to ask?The tone of
the majority of these posts (from both sides) is disturbing. At best.
You're still invited to attend church at any Mormon chapel you wish. And if any of those triples got left behind, you really ought to spend an hour
or two browsing and reading. A more important day awaits all of us
than the day we get hired or fired from some job.
Our erstwhile Mayor has shown that he will only be Mayor for the special
interest groups. Yo Ralphie! Way to be self-serving and let anarchy abound!
Good job showing the world you are a bunch of discriminatory, hateful people,
who come from a long long history of abusive religions. I hope you get your tax
exempt status pulled. Shoving your beliefs down other peoples throats and
denying them the same basic human rights other enjoy is disgusting.What
are you going to do next? Stone an atheist to death? Burn some women at the
stake? Maybe start a mormon inquisition? Bravo.
I for one find the Church's actions in this situation very hypocritical. They
name their church after Jesus Christ yet there is absolutely nothing Christ-like
about their behavior in this matter. Jesus Christ was a compassionate man who
loved and accepted all-lepers,sinners, and homosexuals. I find it hard to
beleive that he would support such blatant discrimination against his brothers
and sisters. It is time for the Church and it's members to start practicing what
they preach. If homosexuality is indeed wrong as the Church claims it to be,
then homosexuals will be judged by God in the end. It is not the role of mere
mortals to pass judgement on their own.
Come on people we can hit the 1,000 comment mark. I am glad to see the online
protest and anti-protest.
Coming to get you.
I agree with you! Isn't it interesting how the previously persecuted become the
It's in the bible. Crack it open and read it. NO truely religous person will
disregard this doctrine, because if they disregard this sin they are wolves in
sheeps clothing. BEING GAY IS A SIN PERIOD. IT'S IN THE BIBLE.
Why does California celebrate Pioneer Day?Because the mormons did
not make it that far!
To my replier:I acknowledge your love of family and would never say
homosexuals don't feel it. The question is whether we continue the legacy of
love of family--of grandfathers, parents, children--or cut it off.Tradition family is the clear, guaranteed, sure-fire, time-tested,
unquestioned-for-millennia provider of the human need for love--love that
requires sacrifice, duty, loyalty (to one's entire family--to FAMILY itself!)
humility, unselfishness, submission, AND endurance THROUGH THE GENERATIONS. It is the KNOWN course. Nothing in society is more sure
than this! So for what would we put this, our very foundation, into
question? For what better possible course would we risk teaching our children
that there is a different--a better way--for anyone?
Well, for starters, up until last Tuesday gay couples had the legal right to
marry in California- now they don't. This proposition removed those legal
rights. Don't you consider removing rights once determined to be equal as
discriminatory? Marriage, along with being a symbolic act to formalize a
commitment made by a couple, is first and foremost a civil issue. Each and
every marriage starts with a license granted by the state, not their church.
Once issued, that couple can then choose whether or not to have a religous
ceremony. Irregardless of their choice, their relationship is granted
recognition, rights and protections by the government. My partner and I have
been together for 25 years and as law abiding, tax paying citizens would also
like our government to extend us these rights and protections. We have no
interest in trying to change anyone's religous beliefs, we just want the ability
to persue our own.
Although I find it repulsive that the LDS Church encouraged its members to
donate to a proposition that legislates morality, I also find it disappointing
that protesters would vandalize private property. Sure, some of them have had a
basic right ripped from them, but there's fault on both sides.Prop 8
protesters, keep it civil.Prop 8 promoters, you've already vandalized the
rights of numerous couples.(Response to "Let's just hope that the
Salt Lake City officials (unlike those in LA) have the guts to confront and
prosecute those who deface the property of the LDS church during these "peaceful
It is interesting that those who supported Prop 8 are considered bigots,and
narrow-minded fanatics, while those who opposed prop. 8 are poor picked on
victims why is it that the minority feeling and positions are always more
important than the Majority. Why is the Christian concept of a proper family so
important to the non-believers anyway? Prayer forbidden schools, is offensive
to me, taking in God We Trust is offensive to me as is Gay marriage, I believe
these feelings are those of most of the people in this Country
I'm Director of HR for a large corporation in Utah. Every time a resume come
across my desk with clear indication of LDS (ie missionary, member) I throw it
in the garbage!I suggest all those that have hiring authority in
their organizations do the same. Last week we had a company wide
layoff. I used the opportunity to get rid of several mormons that proudly
displayed a triple combination or picture of Jesus in their office/cubical. I
expect more layoffs to come and more mormons to go. :)This is my own
private way to fight the battle one person at a time.
Remember Anita Bryant. Pie anyone? It's too bad Utah doesn't have
fine enough soil to export any produce, so a boycott similar to that of the
Florida Orange in the 1970's could take effect. Or is there something Utah does
contribute that we could all live without (besides intolerance)?
Thousands of years defined racism, and fortunately it has been somewhat
curtailed by civil rights legislation and sound thinking. Your
claim that laws are made because of experience is flawed. Just because laws are
made doesn't mean that they are correct. Think about women's suffrage,
segregation, Hitler's regime, etc.And gays aren't asking for any
special rights--just the rights to marry whom they choose.(Response
to "Being gay doesn't doesn't mean you get special rights. Thousands of years
have defined marriage and now you want to change it. Laws are made because of
experience. Nuff said.")
I support your right to be gay - more chicks for the rest of us. Same with butch
lesbians. I'm also in favor of lipstick lesbians, but for different reasons.I wish everyone would keep their sexuality private. I worked with a gay
man for five years and never knew it - it was a non-issue. However, there is
another gay man I work with and every other sentence out of his mouth refers in
some way to his homosexuality.We don't hold hetero-only parades and
events. Heteros don't talk in a "special" way to distinguish themselves. Heteros
don't sue their former employers for wrongful termination based on them not
being gay. Gays - you are an extreme minority of the population. You
are not being discriminated against. You can shop at the straight-stores, go to
baseball games and concerts, sit in whichever seat you wish on the bus. You
can't marry each other because you and your partner are of the same sex. That's
the law of the land and you're going to have to live with it for now or find a
new land. Nobody said you can't be gay. You're no worse off than you were
who writes this stuff? were they even there? i was, and i can tell the protest
was anything than peaceful. we were in seven and we were being attacked from
everywhere. as for the police being prepared, they didn't even have shields. if
the crowd wanted to break into temple square, no one would have stopped them. it
is shameful to portray this protest as a peaceful gathering. it was a hate
Do you heterosexuals really believe that the kids of the parents who divorce at
nearly half the rate of marriages are A-OK without either a mommy or a daddy?
In other words, don't meddle in gays having a right to marry when
you cannot show that "traditional" marriage is working anyway. You can be sure
that gay couples who have a child are more likely to care for them because they
have to do more to obtain them.In other words, just live and let
live, and don't throw your millions toward lies-infested propaganda that
legislates morality.Response to "Do you homosexuals REALLY believe
that kids are 100% A-OK without either a mommy or a daddy?"
To John C. .... remember Governor Boggs?
You better watch it. That could be classified as a Hate Crime if you protest
infront of a gay club....LOL!!!
Are you then saying that your own urge to have sex should also be avoided unless
you're doing it specifically to have children? Or will you admit that being
sexually intimate - without wanting to produce children - is a healthy part of
your relationship? Please, try to understand, for gay couples sex is only part
of the relationship too. Like your marriage, love, companionship, support AND
intimacy all function to create a healthy partnership.
California has almost 14 million Catholics, over 2.5 million blacks, and 780,000
Mormons. All three groups voted overwhelmingly in favor of Prop 8. The Catholics are to big to attack, it's absolutely politicaly incorrect to
attack blacks. It's easier to attack the small guy.
They chose to make this personal and to bring it to us so now it's time that we
returned the favor. How many people would be interested in a protest at the home
of Bruce Bastian who donated $1 million dollars to defeat Prop. 8. He lives in
Orem so anyone whose willing to participate in a protest outside of his home
please post here so we can get an idea. We will also find out who else in Utah
donated to defeat Prop. 8 and hold similar protests at their homes but before we
do so we will target Scott McCoy, Jackie Jackie Biskupski and Christine Johnson
in Salt Lake for their participation in the protest on Friday.We
could hold a protest outside of their homes next Friday and outside of Bastian's
home on Saturday. If they no longer want to reserve this issue to the ballot box
than we can make it personal too. Instead of voting as civilized people do we
will launch personal attacks on anyone who supported Prop. 8. So, John Doe, the
average guy in Salt Lake, had better hope he's not on a list of donors to oppose
Huh? posted:I am just baffled how people...complain when their
opponents march on someplace that they hold to be sacred. Did they ever stop to
think that the 18,000 legally married gay couples in California also believe
their marriage vows to be sacred?""Sacred" in what sense of the
word? Or is this yet another concept you want to redefine to suit your purposes?
The main definition of sacred is:1. Dedicated to or set apart for
the worship of a deity.2. Worthy of religious veneration.Can
someone explain to me how gays who obtain a "civil" license to "wed" consider
such an act as "dedicated to God?" Isn't the entire point of civil marriage to
leave God out of it?
Thanks, Rover! I knew it would come. I was hoping it would
come.Thank you, for posting it.lolSecond best
laugh of the day. :o)
Yes, my bet is also on those under 25, that one day, they'll again make it legal
for the government to physically force Mormon out of their homes and cities. And while liberal churches, who get invloved in MANY more politcal isues
than the LDS Church does, will get to keep their tax exempt status, the LDS
Church will be forced to give up theirs, simply because its views are not
politcally correct enough.Let freedom ring!!!!?
It's offensive to black people when gay people start crying foul about civil
rights. Sexuality is not an identity, but an activity.
Mormons got what they deserved in Missouri and Nauvoo. The only problem is you
enjoy and thrive on being "persecuted."
Plain & Simple,"To Jason: Your tone was hysterical; source please of
how tithing funds were used. You have none, but it sure is easy to make
allegations isn't it?"The LDS Church made an in-kind donation of
$2,078.97 to pay for the travel arrangements of Church leaders who went to
California for a meeting. The Church did not make any other donation to support
Prop. 8."Your comments on churches tax exempt statud convince of one
thing. You are not a tax attorney."Of course he isn't since a single
in-kind donation of $2,078.97 to a political cause doesn't affect a tax-exempt
status. The Church is prohibited from donating to or endorsing political
candidates."Exactly what rights have you lost?"Wrong,
the purpose of the courts are to see that justice is done, not legislate from
the bench. Legislation is left for another branch of our government to do."I agree. The Courts have no right to change the definition of marriage
as it is legally defined but it does have the right to protect due process and
equal protection which haven't been violated since gays are treated the same as
straight people under the law.
Nice, I knew sooner or later someone would pull the 'if you don't like it move
card. Mormons are so predictable.
Some folks have made the comment that if gays don't like where they live then
maybe we should just move. We've tried that and it always backfires on us -
straight people are never far behind! We move into the most run-down
neighborhoods, ones that nobody cares about, we fix up the houses and yards, and
inevitably straight people end up following us! But who can blame them - we're
good for their property value.
Morality is behavior. Laws govern morality and draw a line between what is
acceptable in a society and what is not. Polygamy is a moral issue. Pedophilia
is a moral issue. Drunk driving is a moral issue. Homosexuality is a moral
issue. Gay marriage is a moral issue. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and
that is what the legislative and constitutional amendment processes do: draw
lines. The gay community has a right to its opinions and to peacefully express
those opinions. Once they go beyond peaceful expression, they've crossed another
line and should be punished accordingly. Regarding gay marriage, why should the
line be moved? Gay marriage does not benefit society as heterosexual marriage
does. Therefore, society should not grant special privilege and sanction to gay
I am encouraged by the report of hostility in this article. I did not
contribute money or time on behalf of Prop 8, but you can bet I will next time
it comes up!
Utahns and LDS church turned a blind eye to mormon sect who practiced polygamy
in utah but chose to take a stand in state where they do not belong. I don't get
it. The LDS pick and choose what is moral and where it needs to be legislated.
The God I know would not instuct with such inconsistency. I have to wonder who
is at the head of this church.
It is time to play hard balL.Not only is it important to boycott the
tourism industry but to boycott some ot the church's other activities. In the
spirit of free agency: You don't have to go on your mission if called. If you
are a parent you do not have to send your child to a mission you do not have to
pay for it. Do not go to the BYU for your education. Boycott the BYU. Do not
attend their games. Do not donate to the Alumni Association. The Sundance
film event is small. Think big
Floridian,"As a Mormon I understand the position of the Church. But
honestly I do not know the position of all the gays and lesbians. What are you
looking for? Is the word marriage what your are trying to add to your
relationship? Please use this forum to educate. Honestly if you do it with
respect and civility many Mormons will listen to what you really want and
feel."Because the majority doesn't agree with them they need to
resort to force, intimidation and lies and they have repeatedly tried to
hijacked the civil rights movement which has nothing to do with this.Blacks never asked for additional rights or for any change in the definition
of any institution or law instead we only asked that we have the same access to
the same thing for the same price or under the same terms and that we would not
be denied based on our race.Legal marriage doesn't discriminate
based on race, gender or sexual orientation. A woman can marry. A man can marry.
A gay person can marry. A straight person can marry. A white person can marry. A
black person can marry and do so under same terms.
David S, I think you're overlooking one important thing - we too are members of
the same families you speak of. Where do you think we come from, Mars? The
love and respect we have for families (biological and otherwise)is at the very
least equal to yours - please don't think that just becaue you're staight that
you've cornered the market on love and respect of your family - how absurd.
Me, I'm looking forward to the first gay president, and I hope she's a woman.There. Did your heads explode? Good.
There are alot of opinions on prop 8. I'm troubled with this judging others.
Becuase God wants everyone to be happy. I just don't see how the church supports
the subject of judging others. The LDS Church explains only God has the right to
judge, and mankind has no right to judge. Just because they're a sanctuary of
religion they're not God and should not be judging anyone. They don't have to
allow it in their church, but they are taking their judgements into the public.
Mixing state and religious rights. You don't choose to be gay. If you're happy
keep doing what you're doing. Love each other, support each other. Keep fighting
for what you believe in. Don't let the government, state, or LDS Church win by
To numberous posters: Lots of charges of discrimination and equal rights being
demanded. Could you specify what equal rights have been lost from the passage
of Prop 8 and how Prop 8 discriminates against you? I am anxious for your
I am just baffled how people, under the direction of their church, spend
millions of dollars to take away the legal rights of fellow Americans, can be so
astonished and insulted when the people they're working against get upset. Then
they complain when their opponents march on someplace that they hold to be
sacred. Did they ever stop to think that the 18,000 legally married gay couples
in California also believe their marriage vows to be sacred?It
should also be pointed out that the proposition passed by a very narrow margin.
Also worth mentioning is the fact that around 62% of voters under 25 voted
against the proposition while around the same percentage of those 60 and older
voted for it. Come next time who will there be more of? My bet is on those
A tendency toward homosexuality may not be always be choice, but acting upon
homosexual urges is most definitely a choice. And the same goes for any
biological urge known to man. Those urges that absolutely cannot be controlled
are known as "sicknesses" - is that how you want to classify homosexuality?But even worse to me than the choice of acting upon homosexual urges is
the choice to force society through judicial fiat or overturn of public
referendum to accept your "private" deviant act as normal.
Children raised by homosexuals either have two mommies and no daddy, or two
daddies and no mommy... So, which one is completely unnecessary, mom
or dad?No, this is not a "hateful" or "bigoted" or "intolerant"
post, it's a very important point about homosexual marriage and how it affects
children.Do you homosexuals REALLY believe that kids are 100% A-OK
without either a mommy or a daddy?
To anonymous 7:18 a.m.: ". . .there are hundreds of thousands of church members
that participate in sexual relations with members of the opposite sex outside of
marriage . . ." I only except this premise for this argument. Even if your
premise is true none of those sinners are on a "self-righteous high horse" and
asking society to change the definition of their sin to call it marriage as is
the gay community.
Proposition 8 passed not just as a result of Mormon voters, nonetheless these
gays are within their rights to protest peacefully, just as we were within our
rights to vote yes on proposition 8. I hope that people will stay vigilant and
protect marriage and protest to keep marriage a union between one man and one
woman , in places were this definition has been eroded. In general society was
built on marriage between one man and one woman, I hope that it can stay this
way, supporters of proposition 8 must not become complacent to attempts from gay
activists in the future.
Back when the government originally told the mormons they couldn't perform
polygamy because it would ruin the sanctity of marriage they had all these
reasons why it was okay. Now it seems they are on the other side of the fence
tell ing somebody else they shouldn't have certain rights because it would ruin
the sanctity of marriage.mormons, you need to stop thinking you are
on top of the world and the only ones with knowledge or a plan. until you
realize we are all the same you will be stuck.
Tru,"The LDS church isn't the only church that spent millions of
$s."The Church didn't spend millions of dollars. It only made an
in-kind donation of $2,078.97 to pay for the travel of Church leaders to a
meeting in California. On the other hand the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops
made direct donations of $200,000.Please don't help these liars
spread falsehoods by accepting their lies as truth and posting based on that
assumption."You have equated Sexual Preference with natural rights.
Race & gender are things over which people have no control. Sexual activity is.
To bunch them together is a mistake. Sexual activity outside of marriage is a
moral issue, which is why the church is involved."Equal protection
and due process under the law requires that the government not deny a person
people marriage based on their race, gender or sexual orientation as the law is
defined.The law states that one man and one woman can marry so we do
not discriminate based on gender. Nor do we discriminate based on race or sexual
orientation.We can't prohibit blacks, gays or women who are 30 from
serving as U.S. Senators if they meet requirements.
Vice is a monster of so frightful mien,As, to be hated, needs but to be
seen;Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,We first endure, then
pity, then embrace.And let me add an additional
verse.Once embraced we protect it by law,And reinforce our
freedoms fatal flaw-That the evil can change the legal decree,To
protect that which is of depravity.
I love how so many homosexuals call the rest of us "breeders", like pointing out
that heterosexuals have the ability to have children of their own is supposed to
be an insult or something. All it really does is show spite and jealousy. It
doesn't hurt anybody, it makes us roll our eyes.
To the minority of Mormons who did not support prop 8- how were you able to vote
against it while the church was using millions of your own tithing money to get
it passed?? I don't get it.
Mormons:Be aware that the whole country has had enough of your nonsense.
Once you would have been able to get away with bankrolling regressive
legislation without people understanding that your church was behind it. I even
knew people a little while ago who did not understand what Mitt Romney was up
to, so I set them straight. And crybaby Gordon can go back to packing peas.A pox on all of you and your phony way of life.
I am glad Californias spoke out. Gays live with it. They dont want you there.
Did anyone ask the black community why so many who went and voted Obama voted
yes on Prop 8? I did. I teach in an Urban school of 600. 49% are black- 43%
Hispanic- whites and other groups are the minority. I asked the parents of some
of my students who supported Prop8. Here is what they said. I was amazed. They
said-The gay community comes in to our neighborhoods looking for young guys to
take to the clubs and use them until they are older. They dump them back into
our neighborhoods when they no longer care about these older boys. They treat
them like used garbage. Too many black women are raising children on their own
or their momma's raising them. The gays do nothing to help the community. They
don't go to their churches, their places of entertainment and they certainly
don't live among the blacks. Black women are particulary angry at gays as
man/daddy robbers. Black students are very cruel to gays and it requires a lot
of work to protect the gay students at my school from the blacks who persecute
them. These are some of the reasons for the vote.
To Ken from Galt: Your source please that the majority of the money came from
members of the LDS church. Another wild accusation with no evidence.
Same sex marriage is not a constitutional right. Activist judges are to stick to
the constitution and that document is not supposed to evolve. The saddest part
of all this controversy is that this historic institution is being "hammered" by
those who want to change it and won't take "no" for an answer. Activist judges
chose to make this a divisive one when then told the people that their vote
didn't matter and in essence that they were too stupid to understand the issue
and the constitution. By the way, "no" only has value for some groups if
they're the ones saying it!Prop 8 was right and it protects children from
the agenda of those who want everything they live to be given public sanction.
The people of California have spoken twice and all faiths and races have been
the voice of their belief. If some don't like it, maybe they need to understand
that voters see the long range social and moral implications of their demands
and are willing to stand for what they know.
GAY AND PROUD,"I have to laugh at you heterosexuals...you spend so
much time worrying about what we gays are doing in our bedrooms..."We don't care what you do in your bedroom. I have never given it a second
thought but this issue is not about what you do in your bedroom. Instead this is about the right of the majority to define legal institutions
so long as the majority allows everyone to access it regardless of gender, race,
or sexual orientation. That is the case here. Gays aren't denied the
right to marry a person of the opposite sex because they are gay while straight
people are allowed to marry a person of the opposite sex because they are
straight. Nor are gays denied the right to marry a straight person because they
are gay. It would be a violation of due process to only allow gays to marry
gays. A gay man can marry a gay woman or a straight woman and a straight man can
marry a straight woman or a gay woman."I couldn't care less what you
do in yours..."It's none of your business what I do in my
To Jason: Your tone was hysterical; source please of how tithing funds were
used. You have none, but it sure is easy to make allegations isn't it? Let me
try one. Jason hates Mormons. That was easy to say as an allegation but I have
no source to back it up (except maybe your post).Your comments on
churches tax exempt statud convince of one thing. You are not a tax
attorney."Our rights have been taken away from us." The amendment
in California says, "Only marriage between a mand and a woman is valid or
recoginized in California." Exactly what rights have you lost?"The
purpose of a supreme court is to protect the minority from the the tyranny of
the majority." Wrong, the purpose of the courts are to see that justice is
done, not legislate from the bench. Legislation is left for another branch of
our government to do.
Discerning between right and wrong is not "hate," unless you're given to
self-serving epithets and propagandistic name-calling.Try to be fair
about this, at least - if voting for or supporting Proposition 8 is "hate"
toward gays, then voting against it is "hate" toward heterosexuals.The sniffy indignation behind "why do you care what I do in my bedroom?" is
really laughable since gays has made it their agenda to CODIFY public approval
for their private acts.
Man has the potential to live beyond his own narrow interests--through families:
grandparent, parent, and children families. No person, through the
lives of their forefathers, the span of their own life, and the life extending
through their posterity will ever experience the deepest fulfillment outside the
traditional family.Gays/lesbians, however great their individual
souls may be, will never enjoy this enduring, extended kind of fulfillment.Let those of us who trust family as THE enduring intuition of growth and
happiness never be ashamed to protect it.
Anonymous,"Why are we targeting the LDS??? Because you stick your
noses in other peoples' business where you are not welcome. Have you not noticed
that most of the time your so called missionaries are NOT welcome."The law that we live under is our business as much as it is the business of
those who opposed Prop. 8. You don't have a right to vote while we don't. Many
non-Mormons donated to oppose Prop. 8 including Bruce Bastian who donated
$1,000,000 even though he lives in Utah. Members of the Church donated on an
average of $5,000 which is less then the donations of many supporters of
same-sex marriage.We have never stuck our noses in anyone's
business. We don't care what you do in the privacy of your own home but it is
our business what the law is and our opinions have as much right in the public
square as does yours and to suggest that we don't or to target the Church for
exercising the same right as other associations of individuals is tyrannical.
Freedom will prevail and the enemies of liberty who want to force their will on
the majority will not prevail.
Yes, the "people have spoken." However, it will be resolved when the Supreme
Court has spoken. Equality trumps bigotry every time.
Hmmm, maybe all you Mormons are right. People keep saying that no rights have
been taken away from me, I still have the right to marry someone of the opposite
sex. Well gay folks, maybe it's time to listen. If every gay man married a gay
women, think of the tax revenue we'd deny the straight community, and boy could
we mess with their heads! I've got great health care coverage, are there any
lesbians out there who'd like to share my piece of the pie? Bring your kids too
- the more the merrier! Or, how about this - we could all make a little extra
money by marrying illegal aliens - you know, for a fee of course. And, there's
an endless number who are just dying to get here! Wow, we could really pad our
pocket books, couldn't we. Hey gay brothers and sisters, maybe they're actually
2% of California is Mormon. There are more gays than Mormons in California,
which makes the fact that 77% of the money for Yes On Prop 8 came from Mormon
sources mostly outside the state rather awkward for California's Mormons.
Lets see, a male named Whipple is whining that he can't marry another man in
Utah because a bunch of people in California, for the second time, against this
arrangement?Whipple clearly is far too much time on his hands or
cannot find any real injustice to correct.
As a Mormon I understand the position of the Church. But honestly I do not know
the position of all the gays and lesbians. What are you looking for? Is the
word marriage what your are trying to add to your relationship? Please use this
forum to educate. Honestly if you do it with respect and civility many Mormons
will listen to what you really want and feel.
Being gay is not a choice...don't go mouthing off stuff you have no clue about
Why are we targeting the LDS??? Because you stick your noses in other peoples'
business where you are not welcome. Have you not noticed that most of the time
your so called missionaries are NOT welcome.
LDS Moral? Oh please...give me a break
I have to laugh at you heterosexuals...you spend so much time worrying about
what we gays are doing in our bedrooms...I couldn't care less what you do in
yours..if I did I would probably throw up
The LDS church isn't the only church that spent millions of $s. Anyone
protesting in the Vatican??? You have equated Sexual Preference with natural
rights. Race & gender are things over which people have no control. Sexual
activity is. To bunch them together is a mistake. Sexual activity outside of
marriage is a moral issue, which is why the church is involved. Laws are in
place to protect gays to visit loved ones in the hospital, inherit when the
loved one passes away, and even to adopt. What more do gays need? need does
not equal want...What they want is a recruiting vehicle like the schools and
other state mandates to impose the gay choice upon a heterosexual society. If
everyone were to become gay the human race would eliminate itself in one
Thank you LDS for supporting Prop. 8...they won't have our children to
So you think that my being gay is a sin? I really don't care what you think and
you don't care either that I think being LDS is a sin...so we are even. Get a
I am so happy I left the mormon church a few months back. I left because I
believed the history was full of lies, they preach hate and hypocrisy.After reading these post and hear people talk about this issue, I thank god I
no longer have any association with these people.
I think it is time for Rocky Anderson to come out of the closet.
Imagine if, in deference to the self-esteem of lazy students and mathematical
idiots, PI was declared by judges to be exactly 3.This is precisely
analogical to what the CA Supreme Court did in declaring marriage to be between
two individuals regardless of sex.The sole point of difference is
that the inevitable damage from the stupidity of defining PI to be exactly 3
would occur almost immediately (any future engineering relying on PI would cease
Anonymous,"Has anyone else noticed that the Mormon Church leadership
has not instructed its members to donate $20 million for a political campaign to
end polygamy in Utah?"Polygamy isn't legal in Utah and Utah's
Attorney General, a Mormon, has enforced the law. The lies will not work and you
will prove to the world that you bigoted tyrants will do and say anything to
force your opinion on the majority.
Do you think you are being original when you say the Adam and Steve bit? It is
dull and stupid and if you think abut it God DID create Adam and Steve!!! And
gays normally do come from heterosexual intercourse so can that mean that you
breeders create gays and lesbians? Think about it
As I read "a man and a woman" in Prop 8, I see nothing in that pertaining
EXCLUSIVELY to same sex couples; however, it seems that for whatever reason or
reasons, that seems to be what it evolved to. How did it come to this? Thank you
Attorney General Jerry Brown, as it would appear the way you worded the
information on the ballots regarding Prop 8 brought this on as exclusively
pertaining to same sex couples. Woe is me! Seems to me like some people need to
go back to school and learn to read or more importantly learn meanings of words.
Obviously there are other situations that are not "a man and a woman"!!!
What,"You don't get it. Nobody is upset that people voted against
it, they're upset that the church spent millions of dollars supporting any
bill."It's obvious you don't get it since:1) this was
not an bill. Please learn the difference between an initiative and a bill.2) the LDS Church only made an in-kind donation of $2,078.97 which means
that the Church reported money it spent in support of Proposition 8. 3) Individual Mormons donated and so did many others including Bruce Bastian,
a non-Mormon, from Utah who donated 1 million to oppose Prop. 8. I suspect that
the average donation of Mormons is $5,000.We as individuals have a
right to donate to any cause we choose and to be free from harassment when we
choose to become involved in free elections. The Church did nothing different
than the organizations who opposed Proposition 8 and many of them donated far
more time, money and resources to oppose Prop. 8 so give it a rest.
RE: arcthe constitution will hang by a thread and orrin hatch will save
it.Or Mitt Romney.
Hate state? Utah? Hmmm, sounds like the Utah I have known for many years. Too
bad we continue to be like this.
Polygamy in Utah is already illegal. Polygamy in this entire country is
illegal. They can't prosecute them because they are not getting married by
legal law. They marry the first wife by law and marry the rest by what "they
believe" to be a spiritual marriage. You might want to check out a book once a
while and read up on these things before you speak.
I have a dear friend who attended the protest against the church for its stand
against gay marriage. This lead to a discussion that exposed the hypocrisy of so
many of those who marched at the temple. I asked her why she would hold the
church accountable for it's position against gay marraige, but she voted for
Barack Obama who repeated said and I qoute "marriage should be left between a
man and a woman" How could they vote for a candidate whose open position is
closer to the Mormon church's than there own. The Knight of Columbus was a huge
contributor to fight this iniative, but not a single protest at the cathedral of
the Madeliene. 52% of Californian's oppose gay marraige in one of the most
liberal states outside of France.
"God's Will" posted:"... It is human arrogance and foolishness to think
that God could not have created mankind as a species that procreates
asexually."No, it's your total ignorance of historical and
biological reality that could even create such a pretense. You're obviously not
aware of the definition of "asexual":1. Having no evident sex or sex
organs; sexless.2. Relating to, produced by, or involving reproduction
that occurs without the union of male and female gametes, as in binary fission
or budding.Mankind produces sexually naturally through the union of
a man and a woman. Assert otherwise, and you might as well be chasing rainbows
and hunting unicorns."God also created mankind as a technology
developing species. "If man were meant to fly, God would have given him wings!"
So we invent airplanes and space flight."Just because man can,
doesn't mean man should. It's called "self-restraint," a concept radical gays
don't seem to handle very well. The fruits of progress can be used for good or
ill, but homosexual unions masquerading as "marriages" is not progress; they are
only a pathetic approximation of the natural role of men and women and aren't
conducive to healthy families.
I'm going to gather my straight friends and I together and go protest in front
of a gay club. This is stupid.
As a Jew, I cannot let your post go by without comment.Kristallnacht
was a pogrom in Nazi Germany on November 910, 1938. On a single night, 92 Jews
were murdered, and 25,00030,000 were arrested and deported to concentration
camps. Tomorrow is the 70th anniversary of the horrific event.Please do not compare the peaceful anti-8 demonstrations to this.
Has anyone else noticed that the Mormon Church leadership has not instructed its
members to donate $20 million for a political campaign to end polygamy in Utah?
If the people in CA voted for YES on 8 they (ie gays, lesbians, and what every
else you call the wackos) need to respect it. Not all California is all San
Frqncisco and West Hollywood. If they do not like the way the vote came out GET
OUT OF CA. Don't bnlame the churches because of your lifestyle change you have
made. If you do not like it here MOVE OUT. No one is stopping you.
People who have that kind of money to donate.
I hope you read the comments posted by "just some facts" posted at 1:35. Maybe
YOU should get your facts straight before making such stupid remarks. There were
MANY, MANY of us who joined with the Mormons working in Southern California to
correct the travisty of justice brought on by four judges earlier this year.
This issue was as much about the audacity of these judges - who, on thier own,
stole the right of the voter to have his vote count. Just in case you have
forgotten this is a government FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE. This issue was
already decided on BY THE PEOPLE but was overturned by just these four judges.
Prop 8 was just as much a voting rights issue as it was a was a moral issue.
California voters WERE NOT all Mormons! They DID NOT even make up the majority
of voters! Exactly what part of this is it you are not able to comprehend? WAKE
UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE...postum?
Let them move to Conneticut or Massachusetts...orFrance. The people have
spoken...We the people havea right to protect what we do or do not find
"People like Brad Pitt donated 100K to the NO campaign."What are
"people like Brad Pitt"?
vote for laws, candidates or any other position for whatever reason they want
to. It doesn't matter if they have religious reasons for their voting habits or
not. There is no law whatsover on any piece of legislation in the United States
that says that a person's reasons for voting how they wish have to be secular
reasons. Every single person in this country goes into the voting booth with
their individual background, circumstances, morals, values and beliefs with
them. Elections and ballot measures are not interested in WHY somebody voted for
something, just that they DID.
To pjw, Over $8,000,000 is no song and dance. Then the church gave the
city more property to secure ownership on land they already had purchased.
On the comment about half of California being Mormon the person was saying that
mockingly about the claim that the Church is solely responsible for this measure
passing. The commentator knew that they were saying something ludicrous, but it
was to show how ludicrous it is to claim this was some sort of Mormon plot.
You don't get it. Nobody is upset that people voted against it, they're upset
that the church spent millions of dollars supporting any bill.
to follow thw money. the money didn't come from church funds. it came from
The LDS church is the only one being persecuted for the passing of prop 8; That
is such a confirmation that we did the right thing! satan knows where to blame,
because he is pointing out to the whole country where the truth is. What a grand
missionary moment! I am so grateful to know that even though few in numbers we
may be, the Lord has used us in His hand as instruments, and we need to rejoice
that we are worthy of persecutions for His purposes. This is prophecy happening
before our eyes; Bring it on!....More be with us than be with them.
To Steve at 7:55, I do not think anyone has claimed that homosexual
activists do not have a right to protest. We have pointed out that it is
sad that they do so by spreading lies such as that Mormons practice polygamy. However, do they have a right to vandalize property? I believe the answer
is no. I think the other point people are making is this is not how we
as members of the church deal with issues. Those of us here in Michigan
are not out protesting the defeat of Clifford Taylor even though it was the
result of outright lies by his opponants.
The recent display of "protests" by pro-gay marriage adherents against the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints reminds me of Kristallnacht "the
night of broken glass" when the Nazis "protested" against another religious
minority with intimidation, violence and destruction Jewish property.Why no peaceful passive resistance by the anti-Prop 8 group? Why no respectful
civil disobedience by the pro-gay marriage group? Why no Christ-like attempt to
persude with kindness gentleness or meekness by these gay-rights protesters.Martin Luther King would weep. Gandhi would be shamed. And just maybe
Jesus Christ would throw the "protesters" out of His temple. Again.
Affording married people certain rights and priviledges, our government and
legal institutions have blurred the line between church and state. I see why the
religous organizations are against gays&lesbians getting married. If marriage
laws were made equitable, then straight married people would no longer enjoy
special rights and priviledges. They say marriage should be only between man and
woman because they believe God wills it so, which is clearly a religous reason,
and should not be enforced or supported by government. If "traditional marriage"
supporters use cultural tradition as an argument against gay marriage, they are
following in the political footsteps of those who were/are also against equal
rights for blacks. Those arguments are outdated and biggoted. Married people
shouldn't receive tax breaks and other special rights just because they are
married, unless all people are able to get married. Religion and tradition are
not acceptable excuses for legalized biggotry or discrimination. Equality and
separation of church and state are ideas that make this country great. Our laws
should express these values. I'm for traditional marriage, and gay marriage too.
But, both should be legally acknowledged or niether should be.
the church only asked its members to vote not how to vote
Either the 6:05 commentator is being sarcastic, or they can not comprehend the
law that they posted. It clearly only applies to actions in favor or a
CANDIDATE. The church did not endorse or oppose any candidate. The church
endorsed a proposition. That is entirely different, and if you do not
understand the difference you have major issues.
Clifton,"Another thought: The LDS people and their Church must be
doing something right in order to garnered such hatred and bigotry because of
their stance in support of Prop 8. Meanwhile,all the other Churches who
participated, sit back and watch as the LDS Church runs interference for them.
Hmmm, interesting!"The Archbishop of San Fransisco issued a press
release condemning those who were targeting the Church. He did so even though it
runs the risk of drawing their attention to his Archdiocese. That
took a lot of of courage on his part but I think Church leaders have probably
spoken to others who supported Prop. 8 and asked them not to come to the defense
of the Church because we don't want them to also become the target of these
hateful bigoted tyrants who want to force same-sex marriage on the majority.Let the sound of freedom and liberty ring from the hills to the cities
of this great country and let's stand tall against those who would deprive us of
our constitutional right to govern and enact statutes as a majority. Now they are trying disguise their violent intent behind the Constitution but
Madison condemned this.
to thin line,"no property was destroyed or defaced. the police
monitered the entire thing and not a single protester was arrested."He was referring to the Los Angeles Temple were they also held a protest. I
saw the images of the gate to the Temple being defaced with the left post saying
"bigot" and the right "liars.""We could care less about what you
believe or your own views of marriage or you exercising your religious rights.
we simply expect the government to treat all men equal. regardless of whom we
choose to be with the government is granting certain relationships legal rights
that it is denying others based which violates equal protection clauses of the
constitution."It doesn't violate the equal protection clause of the
Constitution since you are allowed to marry on the same terms as others and
aren't denied marriage because your sexual orientation. What's next? Not being
able to serve in Congress unless you are a certain age is discrimination and
violates the equal protection clause? How about freedom of speech? Will that
mean that the government MUST print your opinions if they print a Congressman's
who disagrees with you. Is that equal protection tyrant?
I am a proud member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and have
a word to my Brothers and Sisters in the Church who are not happy with the
Saviors position against same sex marriage. You seem to think you can outwit the
Lords council and run His Church your way. How did a church teaching so basic as
following our prophet get away from you. While we're on the subject did you
raise your hand and sustain President Monson as your prophet, seer and
revelator? Please think about who knows better God or man? You must speak to our
Father about this I am sure he would like to discuss this with you. Tom WallHemet, CA Stake
It is only an estimate that 10% of the population is same-gendered attracted.
People constantly misrepresent Loving v. Virginia. What was ruled in Loving
v. Virginia was that laws on marriage that make distinctions based on race are
in violation of the 14th Admendment. The ERA did not pass, so there is no
absolute ban on laws that make distinction based on gender.
The voice of the people have spoken in California.
Democracy at work baby, deal with it. If you want to live your lifestyle in
private, fine. Just don't try and promote it as equivalent to a relationship
between a man and a women which is the basis of the continuation of the species.
Even the procreation relationships have enough problems these days, and
creating even more confusion isn't a solution to anything.
People like Brad Pitt donated 100K to the NO campaign. CA teachers had some of
their paycheck donated to the NOs WITHOUT their permission. Various corporations
donated big money too. And here the LDS church members are the reason for
the win. GOD answers prayers! LET this be a lesson to you Hollywood!
no property was destroyed or defaced. the police monitered the entire thing and
not a single protester was arrested.you can try to demonize people
who don't think that religion should control everyone's life but all they are is
your neighbors, friends, brothers and sisters who expect their government to
treat their relationships the same as it treats yours. We could care
less about what you believe or your own views of marriage or you exercising your
religious rights. we simply expect the government to treat all men equal.
regardless of whom we choose to be with the government is granting certain
relationships legal rights that it is denying others based which violates equal
protection clauses of the constitution.my partner and i pay more in
taxes than our married counterparts, we have to pay lawyers to secure visitation
and inheritance rights that you take for granted. we could care less about the
religious opinions, we just want a fair government, and so should all of you.
The members of the LDS Church did raise a fair amount of money for this,
nobody's denying that. But the no-8 side raised at least $10 million more than
our side did, so why are they complaining. They had the backing of major
corporations, major celebrities that some people follow like sheep, and
considerably more cash than pro-8 people did. They were the ones who demanded
that this issue come to a head, and it did. They lost. I understand that that's
disappointing for them, but that does NOT give people the right to deface the
Temple of the Lord.I was at that protest last night, standing up for
my church leaders. We kept quite and just stood there peacefully, even though
others near us were screaming back at the crowds. There were about 20 of us just
there to support our church's stance on this, not there to pick a fight. We were
insulted, screamed at, cursed at, we had people flashing us obscene gestures,
and somebody spit on me. That is NOT love and tolerance. That is pure hatred. It
was ugly. Those people last night did not want a peaceful solution, they wanted
to cause damage.
1. Mormons make up less than 2% of the population of California. There
are approximately 800,000 LDS out of a total population of approximately 34
million. 2. Mormon voters were less than 5% of the yes
vote. If one estimates that 250,000 LDS are registered voters (the rest being
children), then LDS voters made up 4.6% of the Yes vote and 2.4% of the total
Proposition 8 vote. 3. The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints (Mormons) donated no money to the Yes on 8 campaign.
Individual members of the Church were encouraged to support the Yes on 8 efforts
and, exercising their constitutional right to free speech, donated whatever they
felt like donating. 4. The No on 8 campaign raised more
money than the Yes on 8 campaign. Unofficial estimates put No on 8 at $38
million and Yes on 8 at $32 million, making it the most expensive
non-presidential election in the country.
Go to the CNN website and check out the Prop 8 map of CA detailing each county.
To me, I think we won by MORE than 52% !
Another thought: The LDS people and their Church must be doing something right
in order to garnered such hatred and bigotry because of their stance in support
of Prop 8. Meanwhile,all the other Churches who participated, sit back and watch
as the LDS Church runs interference for them. Hmmm, interesting!
Mormon church members were the largest source of financial contributions to the
yes on 8 campaign, by far. This is exactly why the church is being targeted for
protest. This money funded a dishonest and deceptive campaign to have
discrimination written into the constitution of California. This is the first
time an existing right has actually been removed. To those who say the majority
spoke, our constitution provides for the protection of the minority from the
tyranny of the majority. Minorities need not rely on the mere good will of the
majority for their rights. The church should be embarrassed and ashamed for
their role in this.LGBT are not asking to be married in a mormon
church or temple. We hear, 'we love you, it's the sin we hate'. If you love us
so much, then leave alone and stop trying to impose your religious dogma on the
rest of us. This is the third civil rights issue the church has been on the
wrong side of in as many decades: the ERA, equality in the church for those of
African descent and now this.
10% of the population is gay. It's genetic.
Tyler said""and as soon as a group gets involved in politics, they
are subject to political protests. Deal with it."Yes and you are
free to protest all you want.There is a thin line between peaceful
protest and rioting. When property is destroyed or defaced and physical
violence is committed that line will be crossed and then law enforcement will
step in. If it really becomes out of hand, the National Guard will also step
Johnson,"All groups are being protested against. We are in SLC of
course we will march on HQ and Temple Square. We deserve the same rights as
you."You have the same right to marry as does anyone else and aren't
discriminated against because of a sexual orientation. You can marry on the same
terms as any other person but if you want to redefine the terms you must do so
through the democratic process."How does this destroy your marriage
or your family"It doesn't but a I don't recognize or promote a lot
of things that don't harm me or my family. Just because I'm not
harmed doesn't mean I'm forced to recognize as an individual or collectively as
a voter the choices of others."If you don't like us don't look at
us! You will never stop us, we will win and you know it!!!"We aren't
trying to stop you from doing anything. It is you who are trying to force us to
do something and ordering us and those who represent us to give you marriage
licenses. Do whatever you want because no one cares but we won't be forced to
I am curious, and this is a serious question. What rights do the gay community
not have that married people have? My understanding is that they do have rights
of inheritance, insurance, etc. I don't know what rights a married person has
that a gay person doesn't have.
I want every good Latter-day Saint who has commented to know how much we
appreciate the support from all of you. We have seriously been through a battle
over here and I am pleased to say I did not hear of one LDS person who lost
their cool while being viciously attacked by the No Supporters. The press has
been so negative and biased and I really find it refreshing to know we are not
alone. A lot of the people supporting No on 8 were not gays but people who are
immoral in some other way and do not like Christians and other religious people
in general. We all need to find way to validate the way we live and we saw a
lot of that here. There are a lot of angry people and they found the church
members to be an easy target. I guess they have forgotten how willing followers
of Christ are to stand strong in the faith. A little check into history will
tell them that this people will NEVER back down. No Unhallowed Hand will stop
the work from going forward. Wickedness Never Was Happiness! Marriage=One
Man~One Woman, period!
Anonymous,"If the chruch insists on injecting itself into politics
then this is what they should expect."Richard John Neuhaus said it
best "In a democracy that is free and robust, an opinion is no more disqualified
for being religious than for being atheistic, or psychoanalytic, or Marxist, or
just plain dumb. There is no legal or constitutional question about the
admission of religion to the public square; there is only a question about the
free and equal participation of citizens in our public business. Religion is not
a reified thing that threatens to intrude upon our common life. Religion in
public is but the public opinion of those citizens who are religious. As with
individual citizens, so also with the associations that citizens form to advance
their opinions. Religious institutions may understand themselves to be brought
into being by God, but for the purposes of this democratic polity they are free
associations of citizens. As such, they are guaranteed the same access to the
public square as are the citizens who comprise them."These protests
target the Church because of its choice to exercise its constitutional right to
participate in free elections. We won't be intimidated.
the most intelligent thing i've heard all day! well put!
I live in California and when the papers did a survey to figure out why the
proposition was rejected it found that the large majority of the black and
Hispanic communities voted against. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I would bet
there are more Black and Hispanics then Mormons in California. They felt it
treaded on ther rights and voted accordingly.
Its YOUR rights next! Beware the slippery slope...
It was the will of the people of California now shown for the second time that
marriage is to be defined by the majority. All the people who don't want Obama
to be president aren't running in the streets to get that decision overturned.
for the protest to come to my house here in Idaho. Please come. Looking
forward to it. A Proposition 8 supporter of MY OWN FREE WILL AND CHOICE.
It doesn't matter how much letter writers try to set the record straight, debunk
the lies and half truths directed at the Church, they the perpetrators wouldn't
listen anyway if you were to say it to their faces. Reading the nonsense posted
by these haters on this thread just demonstrates how evil, mean and hypocritical
these people can be. It's not about honesty and fair play. When these people
who are supposedly intelligent, who completely over look the fact that many
other Churches took part in Prop 8 in California, or other Churches in CA who
said no to prop 8, then their intent is to destroy the LDS Church, and their
cries for equality is nothing more than a by line and charade.I'm
wondering if those Christian groups who identified themselves as born again or
Evangelicals, those who trashed Mitt Romney during his quest for President of
the USA are getting any satisfaction from the trashing the LDS Church is
getting from leftist radicals because of it's support for CA's Prop 8?
Jan Collins,I understand your frustration, but you need to
understand that not all of Utah is LDS, and not all Mormons agree with the
stance that the LDS church has taken on this issue.Travis
If the chruch insists on injecting itself into politics then this is what they
thanks to the opponents of prop 8.... the LDS church will get some new
baptisms/investigators from all this attention. This is great advertising.
All groups are being protested against. We are in SLC of course we will march
on HQ and Temple Square. We deserve the same rights as you. How does this
destroy your marriage or your family? If you don't like us don't look at us!
You will never stop us, we will win and you know it!!!
The LDS church has exercised their first amendment rights. These people have a
right to exercise theirs too. The LDS Church is saying that they have been
singled out, but the simple fact is that 45% of the out-of-state funds came from
Utah donors which is largely a response to the LDS church's stance urging
members to donate to protectmarriage.The protest last night was a
peaceful demonstration. Those who pretend that it was anything other than that
betray their own homophobia. I watched a man on the news stand up and say, "I do
not hate Mormons and neither should you." and the whole crowd cheered.I hope that one day people will stop bickering over what consenting adults do
in private. Don't we have more important things to worry about? Why does the
government need to define marriage at all? If you think that gay marriage is
wrong, don't marry someone of the same sex. But I think that for the government
to define marriage as exclusively between a man and a woman sends the message
that homosexuals are second class citizens. If expressing that makes me
intollerant than I'll just have to be intollerant.
I find it interesting that those who claim the mantle of "tolerence" only
believes it applies when their ideas or beliefs aren't chaleenged or
contradicted. We (as an LDS people) have been subject to much worse than this ,
and it is just going to become more pronounced as the division between what's
right and what's wrong becomes more blurred. Doing those things, in our homes,
which we know to be right is far more efeective than any counter protest could
be ( remember to pray for those who spitefully use you? ) what would the Savior
be doing right know?
how dare you was my first reaction - since then i have taken a new route -- i
have told my friends to not buy products from the state of utah - not to visit
the state of utah - and to write to you all about how they feel about the mormon
church paying for and working on projects that are meant to hurt people.
hate hurts - and if you don't understand that you folks have done this
through hate and NOT love then you need a civic lesson about the rights of
individuals. i hope that you change your attitude and denounce the
actions that you have taken in california, alaska, arizona, and the list goes on
---- i don't care what you do as individuals but please keep your prejudices to
yourself." jan collins
Gays were singled out first for discrimination. Folks feel richteous by pointing
out the sinners, yet we are all sinners. This is a civil matter, not religious.
No one is asking the Mormon church to change their beliefs or perform gay
marriages. Gays just want the civil rights (not religioius that come with
marriage. Rights of inheritance, heath coverage for a spouse and the children of
that spouse, there are over 1000 rights that only come with marriage. That's
what gays want. They aren't interested in the religous side of it. Sad to see so many hard hearted people who don't respect the beliefs of other
citizens. Shall we bash athiests now?
I'm all for standing for something, but really. 600+ comments. Get a hobby. Go
rake some leaves. Read a book or volunteer somewhere.And to those of
you PREACHING to me about my salvation. Ummmm ...... Wait, let me check ...
Hang on ..........Nope. Still don't care what you think about how I
live my life or what I do in private. Because, oh yeah, it's none of your
Your opinions always make me laugh. Surely you know your name means "freedom" in
Russian and other Slavic languages. So why the compliance-officer mentality all
And that's why our nation was founded as a republic, because too often the will
of the people fails to protect the rights of all citizens. Democracy trends
with the philosophy of the moment causing upheaval around every beguiling fad.
For stability and prosperity look to less is more.
There were no rights taken away here. The people in CA still have the right to
marry anyone they choose... of the opposite sex. ;)Seriously, How can
these people single out the LDS church? The last time I checked the LDS
population is roughly 2% in CA. It certainly takes more then 2% of the total
population to get a proposition passed. The proposition passed by 4.6
percentage points. So if every LDS person in CA didn't vote the measure still
would have passed. These people need to get it through their thick skulls that
this is the will of the people in CA and not a church pushing its agenda on the
people of CA, AZ and FL!!!
Boyd, you are excellent at giving half truths. I am very impressed. God did
say "it is not good for man to be alone". Then what did he do to rectify the
problem. He created Eve. And what a wonderful woman she was. God rectified
the problem by creating a woman. You will also find many references in the
Bible about marrying is between man and wife. Please state all the facts when
you are quoting scripture rather than just half truths.
I wish the LGBT community would stop whining and accept the word of the people
(true democracy). When LDS people couldn't convince the local and
federal government with a petition for help, they fled to avoid persecution...
maybe not a bad idea for other groups (i.e.. LGBT)...Just a
Thank you Biologist 2 Cents. Well said.Are we all forgetting that
we all are part of the same humanity? Our species will rise and fall as all do.
Some procreate, others don't. We are all part of the same group and the
species survives as a whole. Why are some acting as if the same-gender
attraction group is somehow separate and distinct and not part of us all? If
"they" die out it will be along with the rest of us.How about
putting all this energy toward eradicating hunger, effecting universal
education, getting our wits about us in balancing economic interests and
ecological wellness? We could accomplishing so much more good with our time and
I don't mean to be mean or cause a fight. I am serious here. All of you anti
prop 8 people do not need to worry about all of this. I think Obama will
somehow fix things so that it is leagle in all states. So just be patient.
Also, in the meantime, why don't you just move to a state where gay marriage is
so basically because they did not get the sanction of the government to practice
immorality, they are going to harrass those who stand in their way. Make no
mistake...these people want to destroy religion...and all it stands for.
Marriage is with a man and woman. Period. For those who disagee,
your time would be better spent trying to reinvent something else. Here are my
suggestions for you to reinvent: 1)the sunrise being in the West and not
the East 2)make the sky green and the grass blue3)give fish legs4)bring back the dinosaurs5) make ducks honk and geese peepThe list is endless
Are you kidding? Two adults in a same-gender union will contribute more in
taxes even with the break than ANY typical Utah family that not only doesn't pay
in due to tax breaks, but more often than not collects a bonus. 50% of Utah
families pay 0 income tax...just about what the no offspring of same-gender
unions won't pay.
If we want to wear our sexual orientation on our sleeve I choose "Marriage" for
mine. They don't get it. A person can be of any sexual orientation
and not choose to be married. Heterosexuals can be just as immoral as
Homosexuals, Transsexuals, Lesbians, Bisexuals.Marriage to me means
I (a woman) have chosen to be married to a man, and commit to only him in my
sexual relationship. It also means I have chosen to have children, our own flesh
and blood.If a Homosexual, Transsexual, Lesbian, or Bisexual wants
that same kind of commitment, let them have it, but DON'T WEAR MY LABEL. It
must be called something different, like H-arriage, T-arriage, B-arriage,
L-arriage. They want to wear my label, but I'm not willing to give
it up. I wear it with a capital "M".
...and if you can find 10 righteous souls I will spare the city.
the real issue here is should the california supream court had given special
protection to homosexual individuals, those protections that current law grants
to miorities especially blacks, women, and the handicapted for what can best be
called a behavior?the court ruling flys in the face of justis.
homosexuals were given every right granted heterosexual couple by means of civil
unions. the gay community has not lost a singel right. but if the
court decision had stood and prop 8 had not passes. I and those in the
heterosexual community would have perminately lost rights. those right include:
having religious and moral issues desided in a court of law with out juditial
bias. the right to free association. the right to be free from harrasment due to
my moral and religious beliefs. seperation of church form the state.a protest like the ones that happend by LDS buildings are enough to tell that
the gay right crowd are willing to push there agenda on anyone. and do not care
whoes right they trample on. again what right have my homosexual
brothers and sisters lost? juditial bises of the court that should not have been
granted them in the first place?
You can say we're hateful for defending our rights, but that's easy for you to
say when you take all your civil liberties for granted
They are singling Mormons out because they are the easy target. Mormons are a
tiny minority of the people that voted for prop 8 in California yet they are
being singled out. That's about like singling out the gays for getting Obama
As a gay man, I know Jesus loves me. He loves my boyfriend too. Anyone who tries
to use religion as justification for bringing hardship to others has never read
any of Jesus's teachings in the new testament. I am a child of God, and He will
give me justice from my oppressors.
the comments are very entertaining. I appreciate the quote from John Adams,
"our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people." Very
informative if you think about it. I also think it's funny that
people are talking about boycotting Utah. I believe there will be more people
who travel to Utah because of their support for prop 8 than will boycott it. I
for one am planning a vacation their this year in my support of prop 8.Finally, all those that say this vote will be overturned. Well, if it is, it
still doesn't make it right. However, we will still abide by the laws. We will
also homeschool our children and still teach our children that the gay lifestyle
is not following God's plan. That even if you are born with gay tendencies you
still have a choice to follow them or not. I choose to stay faithful to my wife
even though I am born with a desire to procreate with all women. And lastly, I
agree with the sociologist. I think, based on studies, the gay agenda is a very
selfish agenda, not doing what's best for the children.
People on this board sound like they're from Iran - wanting religion to be the
laws of the day. The US Constitution was designed to stop such things. If you
want to leave in a theocracy move somewhere else. America is the land of the
free, which includes freedoms for minorities too. I don't attack your freedom of
religion, you shouldn't attack my freedom to the civil rights given to married
couples. I could care less what you believe, or what your bible says. Our
country wasn't designed to enforce the bible.
I love two women. They both love me. We want a long lasting relationship that
will be good for all of us. Yet you pass a law keeping us apart. Why? Do you
hate us? We are not hurting society being together we should be able to marry.
We were one time able do until society passed a law that says we cant. Why do
you in your hate take away our rights. Wait sorry, this in not the
cause you're fighting for.
Be thankful that you are allowed to protest because in some countries of this
world you would be executed for the behavior you take part in. Thank goodness
for the stars and stripes.
For those of you who say you're doing it for the children: I hope you realize
that when you're children are grown how shameful your behavior will look. Out of
fear of anyone different from you try to change laws so that your way of life is
enforced. Your theology on agency and free choice is conveniently ignored. Your
children will grow up in society where people are valued for who they are, try
to fight it all you like but equality, justice and liberty will surely prevail
God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Of coarse the church is against it.
Why is it that when radical liberals propositions or votes don't go their way
they protest and cry and scream or even worse threaten to burn down
churches/temples and kill people? I thought the gay movement people were
tolerant and non-violent. WHAT A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES!!!!!!!!
If you wanted to protect marriage you'd ban divorce. A religion that divorces
people can't really say they stand for the sanctity of marriage.
I cannot believe how many hateful homosexuals there are. If LDS is replaced with
African American or any other group who supported Prop 8, the populace would see
these people for the H8full people that they are. Shame on the LGBT community.
If you want respect, you need to respect the rule of law an the voice of the
people. Remember everybody has the right to marry. Men can marry women, and
women can marry men. No one has taken away your right to marry, nor taken away
your right to your freedom of expression. If the gay community needs marriage to
feel good about themselves then maybe they need to take a look at their
behavior. I believe that they are born gay, but I also believe that they choose
to live a gay lifestyle. Life is all about the choices we make. If you don't
like the consequences of your choices then make different choices.
For those of you who say gays aren't respecting democracy, you should go back to
school. You debase the judicial process as activism. That's part of democracy
too. And that fact that you have to change constitutions designed to protect
minorities shows that you have no respect for the established law since you have
to rush to change it in order to get what you want.And for those who
claim that prop 8 defends "traditional" marriage obviously don't realize that
one man one woman was a break from thousands of years of polygamist marriages.
and as soon as a group gets involved in politics, they are subject
to political protests. Deal with it. Maybe freedom of religion
should be voted away next since fundamental rights are up for vote.
Gays- whatever you do, don't leave that 2 block radius. I'll be there as soon
as I can. Question: do you know which Salt Lake County store has the cheapest
eggs and water balloons?
Yeah, exactly...talk about rights, (as a non-mormon) they have rights to their
opinion as well. Mormons are of the minority too. Gays asre complaining about
being discrimintated against, while they are discriminating against another
minority. Hypocrites! I read somewhere that Mormons only make up 2% of CA
population, yet it passed by 52%. Why aren't they ranting and raving to the
other 50% too? Hmmm, talk about think before you speak?!
Prop 8 passed with 52% of the votes. Mormons make up about 2% of the population
in CA. A lot of people voted to keep marriage between a man and a woman not
just the Mormons.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! "Arc" you just made my day with the best belly
laugh I've had in a long time. Ohmygoodness, I still have tears streaming down
my face.To Laura and Plain & Simple, could you folks please post a
few more comments? lol
if the lds church and its members wants to step into the civil rights debate,
expect a response. it's that simple. and if the catholic church wants to try to
weigh in on it too (especially with all the skeletons in ITS closet like looking
the other way while priests molest children), expect a response. as to calling
these protesters bigots-- the worlds pot & kettle come to mind....
Wow! Rocky Anderson as the poster boy for greater love, better
understanding, dignity and respect toward all? This one had me
God has created many species of life that procreate asexually. It is human
arrogance and foolishness to think that God could not have created mankind as a
species that procreates asexually.God also created mankind as a
technology developing species. "If man were meant to fly, God would have given
him wings!" So we invent airplanes and space flight."If God had
meant for man to reproduce in any other way than with one man and one woman, he
would have created us androgynous." So we invent artificial insemination,
maternal and paternal surrogacy, sperm banks, cloning, and even adoption.The reproductive argument against same-sex marriage is mute. It goes
nowhere in supporting the idea that same-sex couples should not be able to
marry, and goes a LONG way in showing how foolish, retrograde, backwards, and
uninformed are the supporters of Proposition 8.
I agree with the Mormons. A holy union between a man and a woman is called
marriage. Sam-sex unions?...gotta be named something else. It ain't the same,
who can argue?
The prevailing idea that homosexuality is a choice, rather than an inborn aspect
of one's nature, appears to be the deciding factor in the intolerant attitudes
of most who have posted here. If you asked yourself for a moment why, exactly,
anyone would choose to be an object of general disgust, derision, and
discrimination, you might come to understand the preposterousness of such a
proposition. Although I am now very well-adjusted to my own sexuality, please
believe that, as a young Mormon growing up, I would have given anything to be
spared such a fate. You might as well ask someone to change the color of their
skin as ask them to change their nature in this regard. Those who believe
sexuality to be a "lifestyle choice" are simply ignorant of the facts.
Scientific research increasingly supports the genetic causes of human sexuality.
Besides, what difference could it possibly make to grant a tiny, harmless
minority the basic civil rights which they desire to possess. We, too, pay a
third of our incomes to the government in the form of taxes, and deserve
equality under the law.
Have pity on these handicapped/disabled people who are homosexuals. Not only
sexually handicapped but also mentally.The people have spoken NO TO
We have no common ground on this issue.Gays believe that it's all about
love and acceptance and that they should be able to marry each other. That it
does not hurt anyone or infringe on anybody else's rights.Mormons
believe that it is all about an assault on families and a continued
deterioration of our society. That it is about trying to normalize abnormal
behavior. That it is about legitimizing actions that are contrary to the
commandments of God.I hear the Gays shouting ME ME ME!! NOW NOW
NOW!!Mormons have a much bigger, less selfish vision of how this
could effect the whole.
In the beginning God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
Well Dr. Smith, what else are you prepared to do to make sure children are
raised only in the best homes? Who else are you going to make ineligible for
marriage? Maybe only higher income groups should be allowed to marry and raise
children - there is certainly ample science to support that notion. What happens
if a study shows that children who come from smaller families are better off
than children from the large families my Mormon friends seem to prefer? Are you
going to ban them as well. This isn't about sociology - it is about
Just because a couple cannot reproduce is no reason to condemn them as immoral,
inferior, or otherwise inappropriate for true marriage.God said, It
is not good for man to be alone. THAT commandment was given even before the
commandment to multiply and replenish the earth.Marriage is about
companionship it is not good for man to be alone prior to anything else.
Couples are first and foremost couples, not parents or prospective parents!Same-sex marriage fulfills this first and primary commandment of God: to
NOT be alone. That is all the value to society marriage needs to provide. That
alone deserves protection as a fundamental civil right for ALL individuals.Thus sayeth God: Man was not meant to be alone. Marriage is divinely
ordained to answer this eternal principle of human existence, for man to not be
alone.Condemning a fellow child of God to being alone by outlawing
their right to overcome fundamental loneliness through marriage, and assigning
them a status as second-class citizens because they dont overcome loneliness in
the same way YOU do is fundamentally inhumane and contrary to the will of
I vote for less government. If the HGBLT people want a union, let them invent
their own ceremony. Call it g-arriage, b-arriage, t-arriage, h-arriage, or
L-arriage. Let them choose the name. Everyone knows there will be people at the
edge who will want more, and will keep pressing for legislation, and thus, more
government control over the family. A democracy works best when the
majority of the people want what is right and good, leaving government out of
their private lives. When they don't, civilizations crumble. This is a
slippery slope that may lead to family rights belonging to the government. YES
for Prop 8 protects family freedom, and strengthens moral agency. Because of the freedoms we enjoy, anyone can live with anything and be happy
or sad, their choice. But what happens when the people turn over to the
government all power and control over the family? What government controls it
can also eliminate. Marriage, where it began, has Adam and Eve
married by God and commanded to "be one" and multiply. Family is flesh and
blood. Life is about preserving the next generation. What will HGBLT do to
ours? Lets be tolerant while preserving the family.
With all due respect, Phillip, with a Ph. D. from Stanford you should know what
a rational argument is. No amount of wishful thinking will mean that every child
will be raised in a household headed by both a mother and a father. And what has
this got to do with gay marriage anyway? No amount of wishful thinking will
result in the end of homosexuality. You, apparently, don't deny that gays exist,
so what about this fact? Banning gay marriage guarantees a mom and a dad for
every kid? Give me a break. If you truly want to help children, let's focus on
social programs, social support to struggling families, etc. Who wouldn't be
for it? Finally, some of those children are and will be gay, and for their sakes
I do hope we will be able to truly love and help them - and I'm sorry, but "Yes,
we love you, dear child, but there is something wrong with you" is neither a
loving nor helpful attitude. Your "it's-for-the kids" argument is just one of
the several shams that duped people into Prop 8.
The LDS church is nowhere near being "terrible as an army with banners" that it
will be someday. With the LDS being about 1.8% of California's population the
gay marriage crowd needs to look for its villian elsewhere - like in about
5,000,000 California residences.
We are not seeking special rights, civil unions, or domestic partnerships. You
cannot vote discriminatory language into the constitution. We will have Equal
Rights. We will Marriage. We will fight! You have hate. lies, and neo-cons.
"Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere" ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
I find it interesting that so many commenters who pre-election were declaring
how much time and effort they were expending to pass Prop8 are now backpedaling
and soft-selling how effective they were. They're busy, busy, busy sharing the
"credit" with everyone else who voted with them. What happened to the "leading
the charge" attitude that existed pre-election? Why are you high-tailing it to
the hinterlands now? Are you uncomfortable with your success and
what it means for so many of your loved ones and their inability to now create
legally recognized family units the way you and the rest of their relatives and
friends have? Does the victory seem a little hollow to know you've
broken many hearts that are yearning for a modicum of recognition for their
committed partnerships?Maybe in the cold light of the day after it
doesn't feel so much like loving your neighbor as yourself.
To Tired of the LDS Church:Why does the gay community try to impose
their morals on others? Obviously gays feel it's important that it's their duty
to make everyone think like they do. Why else would they have such an active
protest program. If you don't believe in majority rules, then don't accept the
results and whine until judges rule in your favor. Otherwise, why don't you just
live your life how you want and allow others to do the same. We would all live
happier and longer if we lived by that motto.
To Philip C. Smith,The University of Hawaii is not a real
university, least of all for sociology.
Could it be that many of these protesters are ex-LDS, which creates a particular
animosity? Many leave the church, but can't leave it alone.
The Opponents of 8 only care about their rights and could care less about mine.
What about the rights I have as a parent and the rights of children who don't
want this leftist agenda continually forced down our throats? I'm sick of it.I stood out on corners holding signs in CA and you wouldn't believe the
profane, vulgar, obscene actions of these people. I've never been flipped off so
many times in my life.There is truly hate in their words and actions
and they will stop at nothing to get their way including perpetuating lies
during the campaign and slandering the church. There is little to no civility or
respect on the No on 8 side.Shame on them!
We don't want our society turning into another Sodom and Gamorrah. Yes, they
were destroyed because they were "GAY".Hello, God will not bend to your
It's comical that Mormons are out front defining marriage when just a few yearS
ago Mormons were defining marriage as one man and anywhere from one to a few
dozen women. Why do Mormons think they are such moral highbrows that they
should be out telling everyone else how they need to live. I was a fifth
generqtion MORMON BUT JUST BECAME DISILLUSIONED WITH THE WAY mORMONS HAVE TO
ALWAYS BE TELLING EVERYONE ELSE WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING. lIVE AND LET OTHERS
seriously, you all need some intense psychotherapy.
The right to worship freely and the right to speak our beliefs freely are so
important that our Founding Fathers gave us the First Amendment.The
free-speech war is lost. Hate-speech, hate-crimes, and anti-discrimination laws
now punish men for their words. "Oppressing," "intimidating," or causing
"emotional distress" to - in other words, criticizing - members of a legally
protected group in the exercise of their rights is a criminal act under
hate-crimes laws.Our God asks us to teach repentance and obedience
to His commandments. Due to Proposition 8, we can now avoid falling afoul of
hate-crimes laws in teaching Gods law of sexual morality by teaching that sex
outside of marriage is sin; we no longer have need to directly criticize
homosexual practices.It will not stay this way. The US Supreme
Court, in Lawrence V. Texas, demonstrated that it is willing to look to foreign
legal precedence, in opposition to the Constitution, American legal precedence,
and culture, to ensure the politically correct results - against Christianity.
The American experiment in religious liberty ends when the Supremes rule against
us.Thank-you, California, for Proposition 8. Our persecutors must
once again act illegally to attack us.
Speaking as a Lutheran from California, the question I have is, How come the
Mormons are the ones standing up for marriage and family? Where's my Church on
this?Every Lutheran I know supported Prop 8 but my Church was
silent.We main stream Protestants need to get with the program.
I read a lot of these comments. It all boils down to what the people voted for.
The state of Massachuesettes voted to have gay marriage. It is known fact that
it has caused charities to close their doors. It is fact that being gay is
being taught as "NORMAL" in public schools. The LDS church did its research and
has not told even ONE lie. NO, we told the truth, The truth always hurts those
who don't want to hear it.
I will never understand how gays getting married effects me or anyone elses
marriage. Not everyone has the same religious beliefs and it is truly appalling
to force thos beliefs on others. Gays aren't asking for anything more than what
other Ameericans have...equal rights. I don't care what screwball church
supported this measure. It's hateful, mean and unamerican. Jesus is shaking
his head in shame at his follwers who hide behind him as they spread
intollerance and hate.
Holding picket signs is a social event, and a meaningless expression of anything
in the 21st century.The reason they are choosing the mormon church
is because they always turn the other cheek. If they did this to the catholics
or the baptists they would be nursing bruises right now. mormons
make up less than 3% of any given population in the united states. What this
really should be viewed as is an attack on religious freedom by an even more
meaningless hate group, i.e. the GLBTs of the country. What a joke.
This is really wrong! So all the movie stars and the Ca. Teacher Union and Power
Co. and all the ther rich people that poured money into the No on 8 vote we
should go down and picket around their places. Also, I think that it is very
telling that the LDS church is being so reconized as being the fource behind the
vote - wait to go other religions! You want us to join with your coalition and
then you let us take all the heat! Maybe if you had stood stonger yourselves
then we would not be the ones to get all this hate thrown at them. I guess when
the Lord has need of a fight He know who he can count on!
Thank You Catholic Church for your press release. Moral people should be
How nice that someone can demonstrate their opinions with toddlers in tow. When
I did that at a rally with my toddler, he was struck in the head with coins from
a moving car going 60mph. Other people had rocks thrown at them, profanities,
nudity flashed - crazy stuff, all from opponents of Prop 8. Was that the
experience of the opponents who gathered at the temple? Hmmm, interesting.
Any LDS member who opposes Prop 8 needs to read the scriptures a little more
thoroughly. Homosexuality is a sin and "the Lord cannot look upon sin with the
least degree of allowance." (Alma 45:16)
What do they honestly hope to accomplish by holding a rally? It doesn't make
sense. Being gay will never be a right, get over it.
My favorite part of the whole article was the interview with Chandelle Bates.
Does anyone else see the fundamental problem of her teaching her children
"compassion" while calling the church "disgusting" . . . . or is it just me?
The LDS Church strongly encouraged its members to participate in a concerted
effort to remove the existing rights of a minority. Of course gays
and lesbians are angry! They are fighting for their families! Would
you do any less?
To Phillip Smith,Yes, we need thoughtful discussion based on
reasoned empirical studies.But we also need carefully considered
meta-analyses rather than biased summaries such as you provided. As
a claimed scientist, you should know better than to declare vague, nonspecific
support for a position based on "Professors... who studied THE ISSUE." That is
not scientific, that is rhetoric of the most UNscientific kind. You attempt to
give the illusion of scientific credibility without any science behind it.
Moreover, science is not about "ideals." No scientist worth their PhD would ever
"indicate" what you have claimed. None.More importantly, to claim
"the best unit for preparing the next generation" requires an agreement on what
"best" means. The "best" outcomes for society are not always the "best" outcomes
for individuals, couples, or groups, and vice versa.Finally, you
completely ignore and are unqualified to speak about the POLITICAL ETHICS of gay
marriage. Even IF "uphold[ing] by example this [hetrosexual]
ideal" is good, that does not mean "we should hold to and encourage all others
to do so," especially through Constitutional Amendments voted by popular vote
rather than Constitutional Convention and debate among ALL branches of
I wonder why so may guys on here are taking up for these loser guys. Geeze! Men
should be men and women should be women, and attracted to the opposite sex from
what they are. This is how we were all made by GOD. Quit twisting things around
to fit your sick perversions.
From what I've heard, the justification for homosexuality by those who practice
it includes several features. One is that they have a biologically fixed and
uncontrolable propensity toward having sexual relations with those of their own
gender.As a scientific research librarian, I have done a study (just
out of curiosity and never published), of the medical and biological literature
databases, and have found that there are (conservatively) at least 2-3 times
more scientific literature that links a biological propensity of the brain and
alcoholism versus a biology propensity of the brain toward homosexuality. The
real number is there is probably about 5-10 times more evidence for a biological
propensity for alcoholism than for homosexuality.Why is that our
society treats one behavior that may have a biological component as a negative
(alcoholism) and the other as a given, uncontrollable action, never to be
questioned. Personally, I believe there may be a biological
propensity to many of our numerous negative behaviors. Our job in life is to
resist such propensities. As a practicing LDS, I believe God would not put us on
this earth without the power to overcome those propensities. Thanks for
Boycott Utah? It was the CA Mormons who donated their effort to this cause. God
answers prayers. I must say that there is a difference between Utah Mormons and
CA Mormons. Our testimonies here in CA are tested on a daily basis, we don't
live in the comfort of the majority like Utah, we face more discrimination and
the weak don't last here.
It really sad to see rights not offered to people in the 21st century. Maybe we
should turn back the clock and take away the rights of others too.
WOMEN,BLACKS....Why not? if one group cant have full rights why not
take all rights away!I mean seriously think about it. If you
discriminate on 1 group you clearly send the message that hate on all groups is
Are the gay & lesbian protesters going to head to Rome to protest in front of
the Pope? Protesting the Mormon Church and the state of Utah is only a facade.
It allows them to get in the news the way they want, and keeps the issue alive.
I have no problem with that, but come on, were Mormons the only one's involved?
Let's see some protests of African-americans or the Catholic Church, etc. It's
time that the protesters show some equality or I will request that the tax
exempt status of the Gay & Lesbian Associations be removed!
I was born LDS and I was born gay. I have not been the target of much
self-righteous hatred by Church members because I am still deep in the closet.
But I have seen Church members say and so some of the most inhumane, hurtful
things to other gays who have come out of the closet. Friends of mine have been
beaten to within an inch of death by fellow LDS members. I understand such
violence is the exception and most members would never do that, but that is not
the point. The violence finds its roots directly in the anti-homosexual attitude
and spirit that permeates the Church.But here is the beautiful thing
about being homosexual. You cannot tell by looking at me. I serve in callings
and move about among my ward and stake members and nobody knows. I send money to
support groups and gay rights causes and nobody knows. I vote against
Proposition 8 and nobody knows. I stay in touch with my friends and partner
using the internet and text messaging and nobody knows. My beliefs are mine and
I answer only to God for them. But you cannot discover me. My closet is safe.
Gosh, where did the LDS Church ever get the idea that homosexuality is
immoral?Oh yeah, the Bible!Gen 13:13Gen 18:20
Gen 19:5Lev 18:22Lev 20:13Duet 23:17Isaiah 3:9Ezek 16:50Rom 1:271 Cor 6:91 Tim 1:102 Tim 3:3Jude 1:72 Peter 2:10Check it out.....
All I know is that gay people are liars, trouble makers and stomp their little
feeties if they can't their way. The gay people are adults acting like spoiled
tempered babies. It's totally disgusting to see adults act as they do. I'm
totally repulsed to watch them. The protest last night was completely
When good people do nothing, bad things happen,Thank
goodness the people of California are showing that they are good people, by
getting rid of that that is offensive to us.
Actually I think the LDS Church is getting too much credit for passing
proposition 8. I'm flattered that we are, but actually we were only one of many
organizations that were behind the effort. Thanks for the compliment though.
I want you to know just how awesome it feels to stand up for Democracy. Last
week I walked my neighborhood and delivered flyers reminding people to vote and
asking for their vote on Prop 8. It felt wonderful to stand up for what I
believe in and ask others to do the same. Later in the day I stood on the
highway and waved signs that support Prop 8. Some honked in approval and others
gave me the international one finger salute. It didn't matter. I was standing up
for what I believe in.I was in Westwood California on Thursday
afternoon. My car has a support Prop 8 bumper sticker on it. I was honked at and
called names and shown the one finger salute again and again. I just smiled and
waved. There is no hate in me. I believe marriage is between a man
and woman. I am thankful to live in a Country that let's me vote and those that
oppose my views vote. It is nice to know that others agree.Driving,
voting, hunting, and marriage are all privileges that the government has
regulated for a long time. They are not rights.
Would those who claim that the law (Prop 8) discriminates agaist a certain class
of people, extend the same rights to those who desire plural marriage?
1. Why are only the LDS being singled out? These protesters are very
hypocritical.2. Why can't gay couples have civil unions with the
rights that come with marriage but without legally requiring any church to
recognize it as marriage?3. You gay rights folks do realize that all
the protesting and legislation in the world will never eliminate the 'ick
factor' (your term, not mine), right? No judge will ever force straight people
to equate gay to normal.
Mormons should not be troubled or concerned about the protesters at temple
square. Those that followed the prophet in upholding traditional marriage can
draw comfort from the scriptures and see the parallel.Therefore sent
he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and
compassed the city about.And when the servant of the man of God was
risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses
and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we
do?And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they
that be with them.And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee,
open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man;
and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire
round about Elisha.We have done our part. It is not our fight
you fools give the LDS church way too much credit for the passage of Prop 8.
Are you really dumb enough to think that the Mormon church has that much power
in the state of California? The Mormon church more influential than Hollywood
and the coorporate giants like Apple and Google. As a California Mormon I'm
The Arizona version of Prop 8 was Prop 102. I live on a corner, and all 4 of us
had Prop 102 signs on our lawns. 2 of us are LDS and 2 are Catholic. One of our
Catholic neighbors came to us to ask where he could get a sign, and of course we
gladly helped him get one. My other Catholic neighbor had his sign before we had
one. Protecting traditional marriage is important to many diverse religious and
ethnic groups, as demonstrated by the 70% of African Americans who also voted
for it in California. Somehow I don't think the primary source of inspiration
for those votes came from the LDS Church. Those who are ranting now didn't have
a problem when 4 judges dismissed millions of votes in the previous California
action. Now they dismiss the wide diversity of voting and pick what they see as
a safe target to vent their anger; the LDS Church.
It is ironic opponents of gay marriage argue homosexuality is "not natural"
because it does not produce offspring.This argument is based on a
complete MISunderstanding of biological science.Biological science
is on the side of the gays and lesbians!Homosexuality is found
extensively in the animal kingdom and is as "natural" as is heterosexuality.Social symbiosis has been extensively documented in many species,
including the valuable survival role provided by homosexual and nonreproductive
members of many species within the species, as well as among different
species.Nobody can possibly argue that God DESIGNED humans to be
strictly heterosexual and that homosexuality is, therefore, "unnatural" and
"sinful" and will bring about the destruction of human societies.Neither the scientific nor the ethical cases can be made for that.By contrast, the ecological perspective in biology completely supports the
"naturalness" of homosexuality as well as the societal benefits non-reproducing
(homosexual) members and couples of species provide.----------Unintelligent Design (2003) by Mark Perakh and Unintelligent
Design: Why God Isn't as Smart as She Thinks She Is (2007) by Robyn WilliamsThe Blind Watchmaker (1986) by Richard DawkinsBiological
Exuberance (1999) by Bruce Bagemihl
To Plain and Simple: You can look up the term civil marriage yourself.
However, you will not find it in your bible or Book of Mormon. Perhaps you
should change your moniker to Plain and Simpleton?
I wish the media would stop giving exposure to these kinds of activities. But, I
do have one question. Are you who were involved in this protest on Temple Square
going to go and protest your so called cause at the Cathedral of the Madelain.
Because the Catholic Church also helped to get Prop. 8 passed. Or are you just
biased against the LDS Church??
Isn't protesting what was ultimately the vote of the people in California i.e.
democracy in action (and yes it takes monetary support to bring about a vote -
unless the politburo is in charge) rather pathetic ? These same people would
probably applaud judges bypassing democracy to mandate laws while bypassing 'we
the people'. I would expect Rocky Anderson to be all for such nonsense.
Those of you who keep asking why the Mormon church is being singled out remind
me of children asking their mothers why they are being blamed and not their
siblings when they were in fact the ones responsible for the blame.
With talk of "homophobes" and gay-haters, I believe, at least for myself, we're
not afraid of, nor do we hate, homosexuals. We just disagree vigorously with
the practice of homosexuality.Personally, I view it as a sin,
similar to any other moral sin like adultery, viewing of pornography,
fornication, etc. We love the sinner and hate the sin.Now, what
I've said may sound unfair, biased, and morally "high-minded", but am I not free
to voice my concerns in an open forum. And that, thanks to our founding
fathers. For those who believe in a living prophet and have a firm
conviction of LDS beliefs, this is a very real issue. Much depends on it, both
in people's lives and for society and the country. From that perspective, how
could anyone expect us to stay silent when issues of such importance ARE on the
Most of you commenters don't seem to have the facts. The LDS church preached
from the pulpit in favor of prop. 8, they made up over 40% of the money for the
pro-8 campaign, and members were given "callings" to work on taking away
marriages from gays and lesbians.What you are witnessing is people
of good will, who have compassion and care about equality standing up against
the imposition of LDS beliefs on the government of CA. Being LGBT
is genetic, and gays are not going away. You only have a choice about how you
treat your fellow human beings. Sadly, the world is now seeing how cruel the
LDS church can truly be. But at least some of you and your neighbors let the
world know last night that not all Utahns are haters, and not all mormons lack
compassion. And sometimes, people are willing to stand up for what is right and
To arc: What if the Constitution hung by a thread a no one was there to save it
because they were all at home watching Ellen?
such hateful comments from people who claim to be from a church of god.
I live in California, grew up in Utah. I think that the protesters have a
point. I dont agree with gay marriage, but the mormons should lose their tax
status for getting so heavily involved in another states politics.Remember the they obtained the end of main street-one of the most valuable
properties in SLC-for a song and a dance from the city.Utah is the
only state in the union that doesnt respect the US constitution and separation
between church and state. Every high school has a mormon building
across the street and their theology on kid's class schedules. Shame on them and
their half baked theology! Somebody said that half of California is
Mormon? Huh have you ever been here? I supported Prop 8, but I would
sure as hell rather get it passed without some religious groups violating the US
constitution. That after all is a hell of a lot more serious than
people need to grow up
There are many organizations scattered across the world that focus on the
family. The Latter Day Saint Church is probably one of the most respected and
influential of those groups.Should society embrace a new defination of the term
family and its makeup then that weakens the long estblished defination being
that of man and woman united together in marriage.Offering union to two beings
other than man and woman should be and will be spoken out againts by a moral
christian society.We have lost our focus on the principle of what is right and
wrong.God allows us to choose but He directs the judgements upon us.There is no
First of all Mr. Whipple, get you facts straight even though it make not serve
your agenda. You mentioned that the LDS church members donated 77% of the funds
to pass Prop 8. I just saw the KTLA video of the march at the Los Angeles
temple. They said that members had donated about $15M...........clearly less
than 50%. But in an effort to paint the LDS church members as the majority
donators, get your facts straight.Stick to your civil unions. Don't
force your definition of marriage down the throats of everyone else who believes
your BEHAVIOR is immoral.Perhaps your group will now petition diety
to add two more commandments. Honor thy father and thy father and Honor thy
mother and thy mother. That was TIC! Why is the vast majority of religious
denominations against gay marriage?BTW..........I look forward to
your march in Compton or Watts to protest the high percentage of blacks and
latinos voting in favor of the Proposition. Let me know how you are treated
there vs. in SLC
oh my heck, someone please think of the children!!!!
Yeah right, the Church has asked for a spirit of understanding from both sides.
The gay community has protested, defiled sacred property, name called,
threatened members of the Church, sought to have their tax exempt status revoked
even though they have broken no law or done anything to warrant that - they have
name called, vilified, just about everything they could do. In the
gay community, tolerance is defined as forcing the conservatives to accept their
perverted lifestyle. Marriage has traditionally been reserved to a man and a
woman. They produce offspring. Hopefully they stay together and are faithful.
The children are raised in an enviornment of love with the benefits of a mother
AND a father - both of whom have differing tendencies and characteristics which
are necessary for the favorable setting for the rearing of children. Homosexuals
cannot provide that enviornment, cannot reproduce and cannot - apparently -
tolerate anyone who has any views different than their own.Tolerance
is a ONE WAY STREET!
This is what I see coming in the near future: *Ellen Degenerate throwing a
tizzy fit on her show and begging (her buddy)Obama to "fix this!" *General
Conference will not only have the born-agains protesting outside but now, the
gay coalition (whom they detest) will be numbered among them too!! It's gonna be
a real show folks!
As a Church member I am ashamed. Why? Because the LDS Church had a huge role
in the campaign--and the campaign relied on fear tactics and misleading/false
statements. You who live in UT have no idea as to what transpired here in CA.
The tactics and strategies used to fight are as important as the fight itself.
I bet Focus on the Family--James Dobson, Tony Perkins are enjoying this
spectacle of the protestors. We Mormons are gullible, blind fools.
The absurdity of the church calling the protesters "mean" or "inappropriate" is
rich. It's like if a thief broke into your house and smashed or stole all of
your possessions, and when you caught him and started calling him names and
fighting back, he accused you of "not respecting his rights". GIVE ME A BREAK!
The mormon church has come into my state and worked tirelessly to destroy my
marriage. I think we have a right to maybe protest that a smidge!
On Thursday night I watched the protest at the LA Temple on the internet.
Though I am pro-8 I appreciate that others feel differently and have the right
to protest and make their feelings known. However, I don't understand why the
LDS Church seems to be the only target, when a broad coalition of Californians
worked to defeat the measure. Some of the gay spokes-persons feel the LDS is
out of bounds by speaking out for the measure. Since when it is it against the
law in this country for a church, a business, a community organization or an
individual to express an opinion? Gays get to have their opinions, yet they
seem to think others should not when it doesn't agree with theirs.
This proves one thing...America is changing for the worst. The people of
California,Florida and Arizonia spoke. It wasn't the LDS church, it was
millions of people who voted their belief. To target the Mormon church is
ridiculous. It shows their ignorance. They have rights just like the rest, they
are just not changing the constitution and right now our constitution is hanging
on a threat so thank you California and all others who voted to uphold it.
I am a native Californian teaching in China and I voted for prop.8. This
business isn't about marriage- that is the symptom of the disease. Homosexuals
have a subconscious need to have their behavior seen as normal by others of the
species. It never has been the case and never will be. There is an innate guilt
feeling that is seeking validation, the lack of which causes guilt and anger at
the subconscious and/or conscious level. Their behavior speaks sermons.
This was a good rally. I was there. Reminded me of the civil rights movement.
I'm not gay and I'm not black but I believe in equal rights for all.Two people of the same sex getting married isn't going to hurt anyone. There
is no danger. They are living together right now maybe next door. Is a marriage
license going to change anything?If God thinks this is a sin let him
handle it. We aren't Gods.
It is amazing to me when the "GLAD" community asks for tolerance from others,
and it gives none when asked for it from them. tolerance Pronunciation: ˈt-lə-rən(t)s, ˈtl-rən(t)s Function: noun 1: capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurance
, fortitude , stamina2 a: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices
differing from or conflicting with one's own b: the act of allowing something :
toleration3: the allowable deviation from a standard ; especially : the
range of variation permitted in maintaining a specified dimension in machining a
I am grateful to know we have a Prophet who follows the direction of the Lord. I
am also grateful to know there are thousands of good LDS people who follow the
direction of the Prophet.At the end of the day the people voted just
because the gay community did not like the outcome does not make it any less
democratic. Or any one single organizations' fault.The problem is we could
argue this to death, but those in the right will sit back and allow those in the
wrong to protest and cause trouble because ultimately the Lord's will will
always be done.I am sorry for the people who have chosen an alternate
lifestyle. Please do not try to force others to accept your choices.It
will not matter how many choose your lifestyle, your numbers will never make it
any less offensive to God or to those who worship Him.
I think the target should be the visiting BYU Cougar athletic teams. Just like
in the '70s when the BYU teams traveled they were met with protests
demonstrating against the Church's treatment of African Americans. It is time
to renew the tactic. IT WAS VERY EFFECTIVE. Each BYU road trip to California
and elsewhere should have throngs of protestors pointing out the hypocrisy of
the Mormon church. The Mormons are the last group that should have a say on
defining marriage, given their history. They should be called on their preacing
of hate. After reading many comments on this board and elsewhere it would be
hard to deny they hate.
Next are they going to protest in East Los Angeles since a vary large percentage
of African-Americans and Hispanics voted yes? Are they going to protest these
ethnic groups? I didn't think so. No intellectual honesty. Not surprising.
Nothing to see here. Just move along.
Proposition 8a:Make an non-married status that someone can pay a
small fee to get. This non-married status will allow them to name a person as a
health care beneficiary, a hospital visitor and setup inheritance stuff. This
will not be marriage. Marriage is a religious institution.
Government started charging people to get married and having them register and
then began to give certain benefits to them because nuclear families are good
for society. Some people join the voluntary minority and obviously
don't care for society and what most people in that society have voted for. If
they want equal treatment from the government they can have it. But they should
not cheapen marriage with a new definition. Next, pedophiles and animal pervs
will want marriage. There is a line and it has been drawn by the
voice of the people.
It's interesting that as you scream "biggots", you use intimidation to cram your
agenda down the throats of those who fought your agenda peacefully. Your
political correctness really means, "Shut up. You'll hear my side, but don't
you say anything. I will have things the way I want, and I will do what it takes
get it." Legally, this will be taught to young impressionable kids in school
(form of recruiting) since schools have deemed themselves as social engineers;
look at Massachusetts and their legal requirements. In their eyes, parents have
lost their rights to say anything in objection about it. This has been going for
a long time; 15 years ago, Project 2000 "donated" gay romance novels to Midwest
school districts which we fought. With the family being attacked by drugs,
schools using their forum to push diversity, and various other threats, the
traditional family must be extremely worthwhile and worth fighting for. You
should revisit your true agenda and be honest about it--it is the destruction of
the family unit.
I was invited by someone on Facebook to come down and protest. These are my
reasons as to why not do so.A) I'm not going to protest against my
church.B) I have way better things to do on a Friday night.C) I
agree with 1 Nephi 14:13. I kinda giggled because it's true.D) It wont
change anything to stand and complain with signs in an immature fashion.
Again the people have spokenyou CANNOT Dictate to Heavenly Father how you
are going to live...
The LDS church deserves all the vilification it is now receiving. It has earned
it. Other churches opposed Proposition 8, but they did not support it with all
the malice and money like the Mormons.
"Catholics stand in solidarity with our Mormon brothers and sisters in support
of traditional marriage the union of one man and one woman that has been the
major building block of Western civilization for millennia," Weigand said in the
statement."The ProtectMarriage coalition, which led the successful
campaign to pass Proposition 8, was an historic alliance of people from every
faith and ethnicity. LDS were included but so were Catholics and Jews,
Evangelicals and Orthodox, African-Americans and Latinos, Asians and Anglos.""Bigoted attacks on Mormons" for their part in the coalition
"shameful.""I call upon the supporters of same-sex marriage to live
by their own words and to refrain from discrimination against religion and to
exercise tolerance for those who differ from them," he said. "I call upon them
to accept the will of the people of California in the passage of Proposition
We actively supported Yes on 8. I have never been so proud to stand shoulder to
shoulder with great people who refused to sit back and do nothing. Yes on 8
supporters have been consistently respectful, and supportive of the democratic
process. Gays have lost no legal rights and they can do whatever they want
behind closed doors. But I am sick and tired of all their public displays of
affection, the affect this has on little children, etc...you did hear about the
kindergarten class that attended their gay teacher's wedding as a school
sanctioned field trip, right? Maybe we should redefined the definition of Love
next. This entire group of people have their foundation in lust not love. They
are not the same thing. Look at the numbers, people. I wish there
were that many LDS people in CA but there are people from every walk of life
that supported 8, not all of them Christian, LDS, or uneducated bigots as you
suggest. This is America, we all get a vote. We all know your position and we
care for you as individuals but we will not support your union being called
marriage, because it quite simply~isn't.
I remember someone said "evil will be called good, and good...evil".Are we there yet?
Big Deal. So they draw thousands in SLC. If the vote had been in Utah, Millions
would have voted to reverse the decision of the liberal judges. If the vote had
been nation wide, many Millions would have done the same.DesNews and
the Tribune are making way too much of this story. The majority of the people
have spoken.Isn't interesting that the Black vote helped support a
To California Mother @ 1:43AM..."This was about preserving the
rights for our children not to be indoctrinated by those who wish to educate our
children to their belief system"Are you kidding me? Isn't this
exactly what your missionaries do world-wide on a daily basis? I've never had a
couple of gays show up at my door....
Really! This is the strangest protest ever. If it weren't so terrifying, it
might be funny. "The law is only the law when it goes my way," the protesters
seem to be saying. Or perhaps, "My vote should count more than yours." Or,"You
have a right to your opinion as long as it doesn't disagree with mine. There
really was a time when America was a kinder, gentler country. I remember it
well. That's what we ought to be demonstrating for now. You protesters and
rabble-rousers have taken something precious and lovely away from us. The most
pernicious, four-letter word in the English language, H-A-T-E, has become the
password of the masses, and the world has suffered because of it. Bring back
kindness, respect and civility, both in word and deed.Allow Americans-and
all people- the right to voice their opinions through the ballot box. And let
the voice of the people be heard! Get a life, you protesters! Turn up your
hearing aids and accept the voice of the people. This is not the cause of any
one grooup or religion. It is the collective voice of Americans exercising their
rights. Live with it!
Tired of the LDS church. Does that mean you are tired of the Catholics, Jews,
Muslims, Blacks, Latinos, etc etc. They voted against it too and evidently
think marriage should remain between a man & a woman.
We are interested in obtaining rights for our respective minorities as Negroes,
as Jews, and as Homosexuals. WHY we are Negroes, Jews, or Homosexuals is totally
irrelevant, and whether we can be changed into Whites, Christians or
heterosexuals is equally irrelevant.
The smugness expressed by many of the Mormon apologizers on this board is rather
sickening. And you call yourselves Christians?
I wonder how Joseph Smith or Brigham Young would have felt about this?
Persecuting a group because you don't agree with them....eliminating their
rights to be happy.The LDS church is anti-gay, no question about it!
I would love someone to give me a good reason why marriage must be between a
man and woman. Don't give me the "thats how God set it up crap". I want a
really good reason that explains to me how it impacts your life.
I was trying to think when LDS Church members have gone en mass to California
(BYU football notwithstanding) and the Church has made direct contributions...
oh yeah... all those wildfire, earthquake, and flood cleanups.
So in your opinion the vote of the people of the sate of California doesn't
matter..I've never seen a bigger group of cry babies in my life..You lost get
over it. I haven't been an active memember of the LDS church for years..But the
courage of the church in this last episode has made me rethink my inactivity..Oh
and I will go striaght down to the temple if the church needs my support.
I as a veteran and an American support and I am willing to defend the
Constitution of the United States.Under the constitution we are given the
freedom to practice our religion. Those that would denigh that right should be
"As for the LDS church, why don't they spend their money on improving schools or
helping the homeless instead of their usual patented brand of hate and fear
mongering?"The LDS do spend their money as you suggest. I disagree
that picketing constitutes a superior form of humanitarian service.
tourist-bypassing-utah? Goodness. How immature. So let me think???? Everyone
one Utah is mormon and everyone in utah is a bigot and everyone in utah owns the
ski slopes? Yes! you are really thinking straight here!!Utah will really
feel pain because of your stupidity!!
He worked very hard in Orange county where he lives and works to get prop 8
passed. He said at one time he respected gays but not any longer as the abuse he
and others had to suffer even prior to the vote was disgusting and something no
person should have to experience. I personally object to allowing sodomy to be
enshrined in law and to call it marriage. To allow gays to marry sends a
terrible message to all children. The risks of more power to the gay agenda is
scary. More activist judges will trample on the rights and freedoms of moral
expression in opposition to homosexuality. I am proud of LDS for their line in
the stand. People everywhere will come to know who REALLY has moral standards
and has the backbone to stand up for our Biblical(and Book of Mormon) moral
teachings.The reason the LDS Church is taking the brunt here is because Satan
knows all too well who he hates the most and who will fight back against evil.
Hey enough will all this gay marriage talk Jerry just got his 1000th win.
That's what is truly important.
Please be aware of the hateful agenda of the people who pervert the use of
orifices. Please note that they demonize the LDS Church for its support of Prop
8 while speaking softly of the dignified support of other Christian groups of
Prop 8. This strategy is as old (and effective) as civilization itself--DIVIDE
AND CONQUER! First, separate the most vocal and active of the opposition, in
this case the LDS Church, from others of like mind, weaken the opposition by
pealing them off one by one. Yesteryear, I learned in Civics class (no longer
taught, too American) that the Frenchman Alexis deToqueville opined that America
is great because America is good. When America ceases to be good, America will
cease to be great. So gird up your loins, put on the whole armor of God, the
barbarians are at the gate. This battle will rage on, it will be long and
unyielding against people who clamor for tolerance but have none for anyone
else. It's not tolerance they want but rather to indoctrinate.
Gay rights activists are trying so hard to make this an equal rights issue
likening themselves to women and blacks. The difference is that it ISN'T
immoral to be a woman and it ISN'T immoral to be black. It IS immoral to be a
practicing homosexual. Wrong is wrong. What about sexual predators
or those who are 'genetically' prone to violence? Are these people, "who can't
help it," entitled to equal rights too? There is no such thing as
being genetically gay. There might be a tendency there, but we ALL have a
choice. If one is Christian, one cannot accept that God on one hand
will say that being homosexual is an abomination and on the other create people
that are gay. God is fair and just and will not ask us to do anything we cannot
do.We cannot let alternative lifestyles that degrade a moral society
bully or intimidate society. Let's continue to stand up for what is
What?You want me to politically "normalize" a behavior that I believe to
be morally wrong? I ain't gonna do it! I can not help. I will not help.
5,424,916 voted for Prop 8. Last time I checked there weren't that many Mormons
in CA. Perhaps the gay groups should see that this goes a little deeper than
support from the LDS church.
I LOVE IT! THINK OF ALL THE PRESS THE CHURCH IS GETTING! BAPTISMS ARE GOING TO
Amen, brother. I could not possibly have said it better myself.
Strictly financial and sticking to facts. If same sex mariages were to take
place there would be tax breaks for the same sex married couples. However those
couples cannot produce offspring. So they would take tax breaks but not feed
back in to the system. It takes offspring to continue a workforce and a tax base
for the future. It does not seem fair that man and woman relationships would
have to fill that void.
Wow! I decided to do a little bit of math. As of 2007 the LDS Church had about
750,000 members in CA. 10.24 million people voted in the election, and approx.
5.2 million in favor of the ban. That means that if every LDS Man Woman and
child were able to vote and did 4.45 million people still voted in favor of the
amendment. The LGBT communty has made the LDS people thier wipping boy becuase
they weren't smart enough to voice thier opinion before the election. They are
barking up the wrong tree. If they want to be accepted They need to change thier
own image(Its tough to relate to the image of a 250 Lbs man dressed as dorthy).
I do not believe the LDS church will ever change its stand on the definition of
marriage. For them it is far more sacred an issue than in most religions. But if
the LGBT community want the practical benifits of marriage (IE: tax, care, ETC.)
without the name i doubt that they will stand in the way. They may even find an
ally when comes to thing besides the definition of marrage.
When this eventually hits the church where it counts (in their wallet),they will receive another high-profile "revelation." It may take a whilebut sooner or later, their pocketbooks will take a hit. (Can you say"Take the church" ? Tax all churches.
I am delusional or aren't other churches involved in this issue also? Does the
Catholic church, Baptist church and other christian denominations that are Bible
based churches believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman?
WHY ARE YOU CASTING THE BLAME ON THE MORMONS? Is it because they hav