Comments about ‘Prop. 8 protest draws thousands in Salt Lake City’

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Published: Saturday, Nov. 8 2008 2:12 a.m. MST

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Free Thinker

The religious right in this country is pathetic. Religion is a personal experience for each and every person. How dare ANYONE try to define it.

We ALL get to heaven in our own way.

Those that supported this 'ban' are nothing more than bigots. This is clearly, the result of a failed public-education system and the subsequent failure of intelligent parenting.

I have lived in SLC and always thought that the 'insistence' of the LDS church has always been to benefit a few and to protagonize anyone else.

LDS + CATHOLIC=BIGOT

Free Thinker

oops...is protagonize even a word? I don't think so.

Should be 'antagonize'.

Ridiculous!!!!!!!

To Smart & Final

WOW. I was under the impression that abusive, offensive comments would not be posted.

Plain & Simple is just stating the facts.

Dumb and Penultimate

To Smart and Final:

Truth is cheaper than therapy.

Moral fiber?

If gay marriage is so evil --- why has Canada not gone into the toilet?

Because they live and they let live.

I can think of a lot of things that are "heinous" and I don't see the fundamentals taking to the streets and emptying their pockets to fund a proposition with millions.

SS

Wow, 24 pages of comments - obviously the "hot-button" issue of our day. I gave up reading about/arguing about this topic several days ago. I'm not going to change my mind (I was for Prop 8) and I don't think I'll change anyone else's mind on it. Why waste your time?

The Bottom Line

No biological study has conclusively proven that all gays are born not made and I doubt there will ever be one.

Most religious people like me have deeply held convictions that cannot be explained to the non-believer. Frankly, the put downs and "intellectual" arguments posted on here and by others really have no effect.

At the same time, I realize it is important to many gays to be validated in the eyes of the majority. I really think marriage is just their chosen vehicle to get to this validation, but everyone wants to be validated nonetheless.

The bottom line then, is how do we compromise on a solution that gives one group their civil rights without violating the first amendment rights (remember religious freedom?) of others?

Both sides have to be willing to give some ground here or this will simply escalate and get uglier. It could easily escalate into violence which won't solve anything other than more needless loss of life.

Language Bigot

Yo, Free Thinker, how do you like your irony served?

Your liberal abuse of the English language, er, um, "is clearly, the result of a failed public-education system and the subsequent failure of intelligent parenting."

Oxymoron Thinker

I've always loved the idiocy of those who claim to be "Free Thinkers" simply because they have a different opinion than yours.

Using their same illogic, doesn't the mere fact that they have made up their mind on something mean that they are, by their own definition, no longer free thinkers?

Re: Moral fiber?

Obviously you haven't seen what's happening to the religious in Canada. Ministers are being sued, and in one case arrested, for preaching that homosexuality is a sin. Religious organizations, such as adoption agencies and family counseling and the like are being shut down all over the country because they don't cater to homosexuals. There are lawsuits pending to allow polygamy to be legal because it's discriminatory to allow homosexual marriage but not plural marriage. There are many other issues going on as well. Just ask Canadiandy to repost his list of all the problems arising from this issue.

Ultimate Thinker

Methinks Free Thinker lost the caboose off his train of thought:

1. "Religion is a personal experience for each and every person. How dare ANYONE try to define it."

Personally, I trust God to define it.

2. "We ALL get to heaven in our own way."

Data does not compute. So, now you can get yourself to heaven all by yourself? Please share your secret. In fact, show us now!

Everyone gets to heaven no matter what kind of life they've lived? I can't wait to share the good afterlife with Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Osama bin Laden and their ilk. Sounds like a great reward for living a good life.

3. "Those that supported this 'ban' are nothing more than bigots."

You don't really seem to be much of a Free Thinker after all.

4. "I have lived in SLC and ALWAYS thought ..."

Whoops, I guess that "Free Thinker" label kind of comes and goes, doesn't it?

5. " ... that the 'insistence' of the LDS church has always been to benefit a few and to protagonize anyone else.

Is "pro-tagonize" the opposite of "con-tagonize"?

Moral: Apparently Free Thinking is worth about what you pay for it.

And in this corner ...

Re: Free Thinker vs. Ultimate Thinker:

Game, set and match to Ultimate Thinker.

Free Thinker Dude, try bringing your "A" game -- if you have one -- next time.

To S.S.

Who wrote:

"Wow, 24 pages of comments - obviously the "hot-button" issue of our day. I gave up reading about/arguing about this topic several days ago. I'm not going to change my mind (I was for Prop 8) and I don't think I'll change anyone else's mind on it. Why waste your time?"

Waste time? --- you don't see the change in society.

The LGBT group has gained ground, a 10% gain in popular opinion in 8 years, judging by the vote in Prop. 22 in 2000 over the Vote in Prop 8 just last week. That's wasting time? Obviously you will not change your mind because you are set in your own locked up mind, but 10% of the population has changed their mind in the last 8 years. Too bad yours is locked up in age-old mentality.

We'll wake your mind up when everyone has equal rights. Don't worry.

Re: To S.S.

Who wrote:

"The LGBT group has gained ground, a 10% gain in popular opinion in 8 years, judging by the vote in Prop. 22 in 2000 over the Vote in Prop 8 just last week. That's wasting time? Obviously you will not change your mind because you are set in your own locked up mind, but 10% of the population has changed their mind in the last 8 years. Too bad yours is locked up in age-old mentality."

Speaking of locked-up minds, what are the chances of you changing your mind?

That's what I thought. Looks like you are set in your own locked-up mind.

Just because public perception is changing doesn't make it the right thing to do.

Ya know, I'm pretty sure all those people who refused to board Noah's Ark considered themselves free thinkers, too.

Morality talks. Free thinking walks.

Re: Utahn living in New York

"Just over a 100 years ago, we were the ones fighting for the acceptance of the "Mormon" definition of marriage (e.g. one many/many wives)."

While I do give you full marks for having a good point, you are forgetting a key point. This article is not about them trying to get acceptance (though many of the comments are), it is about a rally held in Salt Lake. 100 years ago, when the government ruled that marriage was to be between ONE man and ONE woman, the church leaders immediately declared that we would obey the law. These people are not doing the same. They are acting in denial of the law, and refusing to believe that they could possibly be wrong.

Steve

To any of my fellow LDS people here who are unaware of how letting them do what they want affects us, allow me to sum it up for you.

If Prop 8 is passed, gay/lesbian marriage becomes legal.

If G/L marriage becomes legal, they can be married according to their choice. Everybody with me so far?

Now here's the bad part. Suppose somebody that is LDS decides to be G/L anyway. Where will they want to be married? thats right. In the temple.

But we wont let them marry in the temple, because is it against our standards and doctrine.

So, suddenly, the church is discriminating because of something that apparently is now legal.

This could spell out a major blow, or even the downfall of the church. THAT is why I am for Prop 8, because I believe that the LDS church is true, and I do not want it removed from the Earth.

Jonas

I predict that years from now, thanks to the internet, the meticulously documented and well-circulated list of contributors to the prop 8 fund, their hometowns and employers will be looked at as a historical disgrace from the ascendants of those contributors.

Nostrajonas

I predict that years from now, thanks to the Internet, the meticulously documented and well-circulated list of contributors to the Prop 8 fund, their hometowns and employers will be looked upon with historical respect from their descendents because they stood up for what they believed in and feared God more than the prevailing doctrine of man.

Yo, Steve

Steve, passage of a law allowing gay marriage may indeed have drastic repercussions on the continued decline of morality in the world today, but it will not result in the downfall of the church.

If you believe LDS doctrine, as you say, you should know that the church will never again be taken from the Earth until the Second Coming.

Anonymous

People don't decide to be gay or lesbian. They just are.

Marriages between same sex couples and mixed sex couples are recognized in the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, South Africa and Canada. There are also Mormon Temples in the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, South Africa and Canada.

As far as I know, not a single same sex couple in any of those locations has filed a lawsuit demanding they be allowed to be married in their local Mormon Temple.

The Mormon Church remains free to exclude mothers, fathers children and siblings who don't meet their standards from even attending weddings in its Temples.



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