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Prop. 8 protest draws thousands in Salt Lake City
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Plain & Simple: | 11:49 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008
To Nigel UK:
Your assertion of " . . . commanded to obery. Every Mormon bishop in California was instructed to inform you, based on your tithing, how much you should contribute to Prop 8." How about a source for that one? Interesting that someone from the UK would be weighing in on California politics.
Your assertion of " . . . commanded to obery. Every Mormon bishop in California was instructed to inform you, based on your tithing, how much you should contribute to Prop 8." How about a source for that one? Interesting that someone from the UK would be weighing in on California politics.
Plain & Simple | 11:57 p.m. Nov. 10, 2008
To Joseph:
"The Mormon church's enormous financial support of this proposition is hurting both." The church gave no enormous financial support. If you would take the time to check the California Secretary of State's website you would know that. However if you want to emote do not go there, because facts get in the way of emoting.
"The Mormon church's enormous financial support of this proposition is hurting both." The church gave no enormous financial support. If you would take the time to check the California Secretary of State's website you would know that. However if you want to emote do not go there, because facts get in the way of emoting.
Comments continue below
Plain & Simple | 12:04 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008
To Heidi:
"The LDS church gave $22 million . . ." Stop the lies; if you believe you are telling the truth then back up that stuff with a source. The LDS church did not donate $22 million. Over 19,000 entities mostly individuals made contributions. The truth is easily found on California's Secretary of State's website, but most people know it is easier to sit at a keyboard and spew out falsehoods when facts aren't important.
"The LDS church gave $22 million . . ." Stop the lies; if you believe you are telling the truth then back up that stuff with a source. The LDS church did not donate $22 million. Over 19,000 entities mostly individuals made contributions. The truth is easily found on California's Secretary of State's website, but most people know it is easier to sit at a keyboard and spew out falsehoods when facts aren't important.
More than a moral issue | 12:08 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008
David LeCheminant is quoted in the article as saying that "The LDS Church
sees this as a moral issue." My understanding is that there were also legal
concerns, like the possibility that the LDS church, or any church for that
matter, could be forced to perform same-sex marriages or be shut down. I cannot
speak for the church leaders, but my sense is that if they could have been
guaranteed that they would not be forced to compromise their doctrine, they
probably would not have been so vocal or involved. I'm sure they would have
reiterated the church's stance on the sanctity of marriage between a man
and a women, and they may have encouraged their members to support that position
specifically (or maybe not). However, I think it's also possible that they
would have, like they do every election, simply encouraged their members to
exercise their right to vote, first of all, and second, to vote for candidates
and policies that each member feels best support his or her values. I think
there was more to the church's concern than what kind of marriage is
"right" or "wrong."
Plain & Simple | 12:13 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008
To Judeges in California:
I suppose the point you were trying to make with the make up of the California Supreme Court being made up of 6 Republican appointed judges and one Democrat is that the court is conservative and not liberal. That may be true on criminal cases, but not social issues. Just because they were appointed by a Republican doesn't make them conservative. Does the name Earl Warren mean anything to you? He was one of our nation's most liberal justices to the U.S. Supreme court and was appointed by Dwight Eisenhower (R).
I suppose the point you were trying to make with the make up of the California Supreme Court being made up of 6 Republican appointed judges and one Democrat is that the court is conservative and not liberal. That may be true on criminal cases, but not social issues. Just because they were appointed by a Republican doesn't make them conservative. Does the name Earl Warren mean anything to you? He was one of our nation's most liberal justices to the U.S. Supreme court and was appointed by Dwight Eisenhower (R).
Anonymous | 12:26 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008
To Majority Rules???:
Hats off to you that you have read In re Marriages. I am glad you have such certainty that Prop 8 will be overturned. It is one thing to overturn a statute enacted by the people, but to overturn the consitution when the people have used the democratic process to amend it amounts to nothing more than judicial tyranny. These judges do not have life time appointments and will come up for reconfirmation. I am sure they remember what had to Justice Bird and the other two justices she lead who refused to upheld any death penalty cases.
Hats off to you that you have read In re Marriages. I am glad you have such certainty that Prop 8 will be overturned. It is one thing to overturn a statute enacted by the people, but to overturn the consitution when the people have used the democratic process to amend it amounts to nothing more than judicial tyranny. These judges do not have life time appointments and will come up for reconfirmation. I am sure they remember what had to Justice Bird and the other two justices she lead who refused to upheld any death penalty cases.
Anonymous | 4:48 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008
While the church may not have given financial support itself, it encouraged its
members to do so and was very public about it. A clear case of "Do as I
say, not as I do," if you will. Opponents of Prop 8 will not consider your
argument claiming no financial involvement based on your transparent
technicality. I myself reviewed a very long published list of the individual
names and their associated companies and places of employment for each donation,
large and small, all from Utah in a very public newsletter I subscribe to
online. Protests against these sources and their affiliated institutions will
continue, and those institutions will be held accountable.
Smart & Final | 8:48 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008
To Plain & Simple:
Do you have an obsessive compulsive disorder? Suggest you get therapy...
Do you have an obsessive compulsive disorder? Suggest you get therapy...
STUNK | 9:55 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008
Everyday it gets a little stinker on here. Whoooy!
Free Thinker | 11:17 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008
The religious right in this country is pathetic. Religion is a personal
experience for each and every person. How dare ANYONE try to define it.
We ALL get to heaven in our own way.
Those that supported this 'ban' are nothing more than bigots. This is clearly, the result of a failed public-education system and the subsequent failure of intelligent parenting.
I have lived in SLC and always thought that the 'insistence' of the LDS church has always been to benefit a few and to protagonize anyone else.
LDS + CATHOLIC=BIGOT
We ALL get to heaven in our own way.
Those that supported this 'ban' are nothing more than bigots. This is clearly, the result of a failed public-education system and the subsequent failure of intelligent parenting.
I have lived in SLC and always thought that the 'insistence' of the LDS church has always been to benefit a few and to protagonize anyone else.
LDS + CATHOLIC=BIGOT
Free Thinker | 11:20 a.m. Nov. 11, 2008
oops...is protagonize even a word? I don't think so.
Should be 'antagonize'.
Should be 'antagonize'.
Ridiculous!!!!!!! | 12:22 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
To Smart & Final
WOW. I was under the impression that abusive, offensive comments would not be posted.
Plain & Simple is just stating the facts.
WOW. I was under the impression that abusive, offensive comments would not be posted.
Plain & Simple is just stating the facts.
Dumb and Penultimate | 12:39 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
To Smart and Final:
Truth is cheaper than therapy.
Truth is cheaper than therapy.
Moral fiber? | 12:55 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
If gay marriage is so evil --- why has Canada not gone into the toilet?
Because they live and they let live.
I can think of a lot of things that are "heinous" and I don't see the fundamentals taking to the streets and emptying their pockets to fund a proposition with millions.
Because they live and they let live.
I can think of a lot of things that are "heinous" and I don't see the fundamentals taking to the streets and emptying their pockets to fund a proposition with millions.
SS | 12:58 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
Wow, 24 pages of comments - obviously the "hot-button" issue of our
day. I gave up reading about/arguing about this topic several days ago.
I'm not going to change my mind (I was for Prop 8) and I don't think
I'll change anyone else's mind on it. Why waste your time?
The Bottom Line | 1:18 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
No biological study has conclusively proven that all gays are born not made and
I doubt there will ever be one.
Most religious people like me have deeply held convictions that cannot be explained to the non-believer. Frankly, the put downs and "intellectual" arguments posted on here and by others really have no effect.
At the same time, I realize it is important to many gays to be validated in the eyes of the majority. I really think marriage is just their chosen vehicle to get to this validation, but everyone wants to be validated nonetheless.
The bottom line then, is how do we compromise on a solution that gives one group their civil rights without violating the first amendment rights (remember religious freedom?) of others?
Both sides have to be willing to give some ground here or this will simply escalate and get uglier. It could easily escalate into violence which won't solve anything other than more needless loss of life.
Most religious people like me have deeply held convictions that cannot be explained to the non-believer. Frankly, the put downs and "intellectual" arguments posted on here and by others really have no effect.
At the same time, I realize it is important to many gays to be validated in the eyes of the majority. I really think marriage is just their chosen vehicle to get to this validation, but everyone wants to be validated nonetheless.
The bottom line then, is how do we compromise on a solution that gives one group their civil rights without violating the first amendment rights (remember religious freedom?) of others?
Both sides have to be willing to give some ground here or this will simply escalate and get uglier. It could easily escalate into violence which won't solve anything other than more needless loss of life.
Language Bigot | 3:12 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
Yo, Free Thinker, how do you like your irony served?
Your liberal abuse of the English language, er, um, "is clearly, the result of a failed public-education system and the subsequent failure of intelligent parenting."
Your liberal abuse of the English language, er, um, "is clearly, the result of a failed public-education system and the subsequent failure of intelligent parenting."
Oxymoron Thinker | 3:17 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
I've always loved the idiocy of those who claim to be "Free
Thinkers" simply because they have a different opinion than yours.
Using their same illogic, doesn't the mere fact that they have made up their mind on something mean that they are, by their own definition, no longer free thinkers?
Using their same illogic, doesn't the mere fact that they have made up their mind on something mean that they are, by their own definition, no longer free thinkers?
Re: Moral fiber? | 3:35 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
Obviously you haven't seen what's happening to the religious in
Canada. Ministers are being sued, and in one case arrested, for preaching that
homosexuality is a sin. Religious organizations, such as adoption agencies and
family counseling and the like are being shut down all over the country because
they don't cater to homosexuals. There are lawsuits pending to allow
polygamy to be legal because it's discriminatory to allow homosexual
marriage but not plural marriage. There are many other issues going on as well.
Just ask Canadiandy to repost his list of all the problems arising from this
issue.
Ultimate Thinker | 3:37 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
Methinks Free Thinker lost the caboose off his train of thought:
1. "Religion is a personal experience for each and every person. How dare ANYONE try to define it."
Personally, I trust God to define it.
2. "We ALL get to heaven in our own way."
Data does not compute. So, now you can get yourself to heaven all by yourself? Please share your secret. In fact, show us now!
Everyone gets to heaven no matter what kind of life they've lived? I can't wait to share the good afterlife with Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Osama bin Laden and their ilk. Sounds like a great reward for living a good life.
3. "Those that supported this 'ban' are nothing more than bigots."
You don't really seem to be much of a Free Thinker after all.
4. "I have lived in SLC and ALWAYS thought ..."
Whoops, I guess that "Free Thinker" label kind of comes and goes, doesn't it?
5. " ... that the 'insistence' of the LDS church has always been to benefit a few and to protagonize anyone else.
Is "pro-tagonize" the opposite of "con-tagonize"?
Moral: Apparently Free Thinking is worth about what you pay for it.
1. "Religion is a personal experience for each and every person. How dare ANYONE try to define it."
Personally, I trust God to define it.
2. "We ALL get to heaven in our own way."
Data does not compute. So, now you can get yourself to heaven all by yourself? Please share your secret. In fact, show us now!
Everyone gets to heaven no matter what kind of life they've lived? I can't wait to share the good afterlife with Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Osama bin Laden and their ilk. Sounds like a great reward for living a good life.
3. "Those that supported this 'ban' are nothing more than bigots."
You don't really seem to be much of a Free Thinker after all.
4. "I have lived in SLC and ALWAYS thought ..."
Whoops, I guess that "Free Thinker" label kind of comes and goes, doesn't it?
5. " ... that the 'insistence' of the LDS church has always been to benefit a few and to protagonize anyone else.
Is "pro-tagonize" the opposite of "con-tagonize"?
Moral: Apparently Free Thinking is worth about what you pay for it.
And in this corner ... | 4:14 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
Re: Free Thinker vs. Ultimate Thinker:
Game, set and match to Ultimate Thinker.
Free Thinker � Dude, try bringing your "A" game -- if you have one -- next time.
Game, set and match to Ultimate Thinker.
Free Thinker � Dude, try bringing your "A" game -- if you have one -- next time.
To S.S. | 5:43 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
Who wrote:
"Wow, 24 pages of comments - obviously the "hot-button" issue of our day. I gave up reading about/arguing about this topic several days ago. I'm not going to change my mind (I was for Prop 8) and I don't think I'll change anyone else's mind on it. Why waste your time?"
Waste time? --- you don't see the change in society.
The LGBT group has gained ground, a 10% gain in popular opinion in 8 years, judging by the vote in Prop. 22 in 2000 over the Vote in Prop 8 just last week. That's wasting time? Obviously you will not change your mind because you are set in your own locked up mind, but 10% of the population has changed their mind in the last 8 years. Too bad yours is locked up in age-old mentality.
We'll wake your mind up when everyone has equal rights. Don't worry.
"Wow, 24 pages of comments - obviously the "hot-button" issue of our day. I gave up reading about/arguing about this topic several days ago. I'm not going to change my mind (I was for Prop 8) and I don't think I'll change anyone else's mind on it. Why waste your time?"
Waste time? --- you don't see the change in society.
The LGBT group has gained ground, a 10% gain in popular opinion in 8 years, judging by the vote in Prop. 22 in 2000 over the Vote in Prop 8 just last week. That's wasting time? Obviously you will not change your mind because you are set in your own locked up mind, but 10% of the population has changed their mind in the last 8 years. Too bad yours is locked up in age-old mentality.
We'll wake your mind up when everyone has equal rights. Don't worry.
Re: To S.S. | 6:36 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
Who wrote:
"The LGBT group has gained ground, a 10% gain in popular opinion in 8 years, judging by the vote in Prop. 22 in 2000 over the Vote in Prop 8 just last week. That's wasting time? Obviously you will not change your mind because you are set in your own locked up mind, but 10% of the population has changed their mind in the last 8 years. Too bad yours is locked up in age-old mentality."
Speaking of locked-up minds, what are the chances of you changing your mind?
That's what I thought. Looks like you are set in your own locked-up mind.
Just because public perception is changing doesn't make it the right thing to do.
Ya know, I'm pretty sure all those people who refused to board Noah's Ark considered themselves free thinkers, too.
Morality talks. Free thinking walks.
"The LGBT group has gained ground, a 10% gain in popular opinion in 8 years, judging by the vote in Prop. 22 in 2000 over the Vote in Prop 8 just last week. That's wasting time? Obviously you will not change your mind because you are set in your own locked up mind, but 10% of the population has changed their mind in the last 8 years. Too bad yours is locked up in age-old mentality."
Speaking of locked-up minds, what are the chances of you changing your mind?
That's what I thought. Looks like you are set in your own locked-up mind.
Just because public perception is changing doesn't make it the right thing to do.
Ya know, I'm pretty sure all those people who refused to board Noah's Ark considered themselves free thinkers, too.
Morality talks. Free thinking walks.
Re: Utahn living in New York | 6:54 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
"Just over a 100 years ago, we were the ones fighting for the acceptance of
the "Mormon" definition of marriage (e.g. one many/many
wives)."
While I do give you full marks for having a good point, you are forgetting a key point. This article is not about them trying to get acceptance (though many of the comments are), it is about a rally held in Salt Lake. 100 years ago, when the government ruled that marriage was to be between ONE man and ONE woman, the church leaders immediately declared that we would obey the law. These people are not doing the same. They are acting in denial of the law, and refusing to believe that they could possibly be wrong.
While I do give you full marks for having a good point, you are forgetting a key point. This article is not about them trying to get acceptance (though many of the comments are), it is about a rally held in Salt Lake. 100 years ago, when the government ruled that marriage was to be between ONE man and ONE woman, the church leaders immediately declared that we would obey the law. These people are not doing the same. They are acting in denial of the law, and refusing to believe that they could possibly be wrong.
Steve | 7:06 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
To any of my fellow LDS people here who are unaware of how letting them do what
they want affects us, allow me to sum it up for you.
If Prop 8 is passed, gay/lesbian marriage becomes legal.
If G/L marriage becomes legal, they can be married according to their choice. Everybody with me so far?
Now here's the bad part. Suppose somebody that is LDS decides to be G/L anyway. Where will they want to be married? thats right. In the temple.
But we wont let them marry in the temple, because is it against our standards and doctrine.
So, suddenly, the church is discriminating because of something that apparently is now legal.
This could spell out a major blow, or even the downfall of the church. THAT is why I am for Prop 8, because I believe that the LDS church is true, and I do not want it removed from the Earth.
If Prop 8 is passed, gay/lesbian marriage becomes legal.
If G/L marriage becomes legal, they can be married according to their choice. Everybody with me so far?
Now here's the bad part. Suppose somebody that is LDS decides to be G/L anyway. Where will they want to be married? thats right. In the temple.
But we wont let them marry in the temple, because is it against our standards and doctrine.
So, suddenly, the church is discriminating because of something that apparently is now legal.
This could spell out a major blow, or even the downfall of the church. THAT is why I am for Prop 8, because I believe that the LDS church is true, and I do not want it removed from the Earth.
Jonas | 7:36 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
I predict that years from now, thanks to the internet, the meticulously
documented and well-circulated list of contributors to the prop 8 fund, their
hometowns and employers will be looked at as a historical disgrace from the
ascendants of those contributors.
Nostrajonas | 8:28 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
I predict that years from now, thanks to the Internet, the meticulously
documented and well-circulated list of contributors to the Prop 8 fund, their
hometowns and employers will be looked upon with historical respect from their
descendents because they stood up for what they believed in and feared God more
than the prevailing doctrine of man.
Yo, Steve | 8:35 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
Steve, passage of a law allowing gay marriage may indeed have drastic
repercussions on the continued decline of morality in the world today, but it
will not result in the downfall of the church.
If you believe LDS doctrine, as you say, you should know that the church will never again be taken from the Earth until the Second Coming.
If you believe LDS doctrine, as you say, you should know that the church will never again be taken from the Earth until the Second Coming.
Anonymous | 8:54 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
People don't decide to be gay or lesbian. They just are.
Marriages between same sex couples and mixed sex couples are recognized in the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, South Africa and Canada. There are also Mormon Temples in the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, South Africa and Canada.
As far as I know, not a single same sex couple in any of those locations has filed a lawsuit demanding they be allowed to be married in their local Mormon Temple.
The Mormon Church remains free to exclude mothers, fathers children and siblings who don't meet their standards from even attending weddings in its Temples.
Marriages between same sex couples and mixed sex couples are recognized in the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, South Africa and Canada. There are also Mormon Temples in the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, South Africa and Canada.
As far as I know, not a single same sex couple in any of those locations has filed a lawsuit demanding they be allowed to be married in their local Mormon Temple.
The Mormon Church remains free to exclude mothers, fathers children and siblings who don't meet their standards from even attending weddings in its Temples.
Anonymous | 9:57 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
wow such hate on both sides. love thy neighbor as thy self.
to Roger Carrier | 11:23 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
This isn't about what they do in private. It's about how their
private behavior affects the public. If it is legalized, children must be
taught about homosexuality as part of diversity. A first grade class was taken
to a lesbian wedding. When have you heard of instruction time being used to
attend a traditional wedding? Use the internet to educate yourself about the
reality of what has happened in Mass. since gay marriage was legalized. The
next step will mandate that pedophilia be taught as part of diversity because
you cannot discriminate based on sexual preferences. they have their registered
domestic partnership CA family code 297.5 which clearly states they have all the
rights of a spouse. The activists aren't happy with that. They won't
rest until they've invaded our schools and can indoctrinate our kids. It
was legal here for only a few weeks and it didn't take long for them to
take first graders to a lesbian wedding. Let the indoctrination begin.
for prop 8 | 11:24 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
A vote yes on prop 8 bans same sex marriage in Calif., a state I left because it
became increasingly hard to watch what was happening to this good state. All
the hate and indecent, immature behavior is coming from the gay community it
seems. They sound furious with religion in general. I remember the fires and
looting in LA some years ago that was very frightening. The lawlessness shown
here is no less frightening. How do they expect us to respect them when they are
so disrespectful to everyone else. I'll not change my religious
convictions in spite of all the hateful mean things that are directed against my
faith. It's pointless. It is the gay plan (read their site on the net) to
stir up all the trouble they can across the nation to try to force their views
down everyones throats. Remember too, that the gay community had heavy
contributions on their side. Shall the majority of the nation march against
these people, boycott them and spew out hate? We're better than that.
Anonymous | 11:28 p.m. Nov. 11, 2008
gays simply choose not to grow up. they're stuck in the elementary school
mindset of thinking the opposite sex has cooties. they also choose to throw
temper tantrums when they don't get their own way.
for prop 8 | 12:08 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Same sex marriage will be taught in school if prop 8 is overturned. California
teachers union contributed to the vote on no. Other contributors to the no vote
include McDonalds, Levi Strauss, Southern Cal. Edison, Steven Spielberg, the
good governor of California speaks out in favor of a no vote. Does that not
leave cause for concern? These are people who have a lot of influence on youth.
A good friend of mine is concerned her children will one day have a field trip
to a gay wedding through the school. Sound ludicrist? Well, it happened and
could happen to her children too. How many field trips have you seen a school
take to see a straight marriage? What message did that carry? Of course there
will be sad reprocusions if the gay rights succeed, both morally and legally.
How come all the defacing these people have been doing is not being considered by the law as hate crimes? Their faces were on TV as they hung their signs in LA on the LDS temple wall. Not rocket science as to who did it, so why does not the law enforcement act when appropriate?
How come all the defacing these people have been doing is not being considered by the law as hate crimes? Their faces were on TV as they hung their signs in LA on the LDS temple wall. Not rocket science as to who did it, so why does not the law enforcement act when appropriate?
Gisele | 12:44 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Over and over and OVER on these Prop 8-related comments, I have seen supporters
of prop 8 proclaiming that there is nothing in the Constitution that separates
church from state--like it is their right to allow their dogma to dictate the
government's actions. I will enlighten you. If there was no separation of
church and state, the STATE would be dictating YOUR beliefs. NOT vice versa.
The STRATOSPHERIC arrogance of some of the childish, inarticulate religious supporters of prop 8 on these message boards is flabbergasting! Do you REALLY think your religion, a tiny minority itself, would BENEFIT from a unity of church in state against everyone else's beliefs in all of the religious institutions in your imagined American democratic theocracy?
You had better thank your lucky stars that this is NOT the way our country is run and be VERY careful what you wish for.
The STRATOSPHERIC arrogance of some of the childish, inarticulate religious supporters of prop 8 on these message boards is flabbergasting! Do you REALLY think your religion, a tiny minority itself, would BENEFIT from a unity of church in state against everyone else's beliefs in all of the religious institutions in your imagined American democratic theocracy?
You had better thank your lucky stars that this is NOT the way our country is run and be VERY careful what you wish for.
RE: Gisele | 3:34 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
I'm glad we have the articulation police patrolling this thread. The
establishment clause treats the subject of government-sponsored religion. If you
think we're trying to cause the government to establish our religion, you
are clearly mistaken. There are plenty of secular, evidence-based arguments
promoting traditional marriage, and there are plenty of religious-minded people
trying to protect a natural order. Is there plenty of religious fervor in this
debate? Absolutely! How can you separate life from religion?! Not even the gays
can claim immunity from religious conviction! Humans, by nature, are
religious!!!
The People | 8:30 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Boycott Utah, The Hate State!
It's all been explained now | 8:32 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
"gays simply choose not to grow up. they're stuck in the elementary
school mindset of thinking the opposite sex has cooties. they also choose to
throw temper tantrums when they don't get their own way."
Venting is what goes on here, not exchange of reasonable ideas.
Venting is what goes on here, not exchange of reasonable ideas.
Yankee Doodle | 9:04 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Starting today, gay marriages being in Connecticut. Are you Mormons going to
turn your venom on that state now? Doesn't your prophet worry about the
children there and start another hate campaign towards that state?
IMAN | 9:24 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
RE:Steve
you and your religion are already sliding down th eslippery slope of irrelevance. It's only a matter of time.
you and your religion are already sliding down th eslippery slope of irrelevance. It's only a matter of time.
Anonymous | 10:28 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
no venting just the facts. They are acting like children both in the bedroom
and on the streets.
Keri | 10:43 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
If California says homosexual marriage is bad, it must be really bad. If they
say it twice, it must be really, really bad!!!!!!
Shazam, Gisele! | 10:47 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Step back away from the edge, Gisele ... take a deep breath ... let rational
thought occur before typing any further responses ...
I'm halfway convinced that you are a Yes on Prop. 8 troll, whose purpose it is to make the "No" side look ridiculous by spouting such utterly inconceivable rhetoric.
But ... in the slight case that you are for real ... I suggest you learn what the separation of church and state is. It is not that generally religious ideals, morals and ethics cannot be reflected in societal laws. It is that there is no state-sponsored religion. This country was founded on the basis of "freedom of religion" not "freedom from religion."
No one is suggesting a "unity of church and state" as you so "flabbergastingly" suggest. For you to so state is either just another in a string of lies espoused by the "No on 8" crowd or stratospherically arrogant and a low point on the childish, inarticulate scale of debate.
Thanks for "enlightening" us with your dogma.
(The preceding message was approved by those who don't feel the need to capitalize random words to express their points of emphasis.)
I'm halfway convinced that you are a Yes on Prop. 8 troll, whose purpose it is to make the "No" side look ridiculous by spouting such utterly inconceivable rhetoric.
But ... in the slight case that you are for real ... I suggest you learn what the separation of church and state is. It is not that generally religious ideals, morals and ethics cannot be reflected in societal laws. It is that there is no state-sponsored religion. This country was founded on the basis of "freedom of religion" not "freedom from religion."
No one is suggesting a "unity of church and state" as you so "flabbergastingly" suggest. For you to so state is either just another in a string of lies espoused by the "No on 8" crowd or stratospherically arrogant and a low point on the childish, inarticulate scale of debate.
Thanks for "enlightening" us with your dogma.
(The preceding message was approved by those who don't feel the need to capitalize random words to express their points of emphasis.)
Ryanne | 10:49 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
The majority of Los Angeles county voted to ban gay marriage. That shows
despite the celebrity endorsements and the big bucks thrown to the no campaign,
the majority of Californians are intelligent, moral people who can see through
the lies and deceptions. No raised more money and had alot more TV ads than yes
did. They aired during the top rated shows. Guess what, it didn't work.
These ads claimed gay marriage had nothing to do with schools and yet it was a
well known fact that first graders were taken to a lesbian wedding. Yes on 8
won!!!! Deal with it.
I-WOMAN | 10:52 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
Yes, IMAN, just as soon as all the mindless vandalism, pointless protests,
message board rants and profane placards all fade into oblivion, we will all
return to our previous state of irrelevance.
Thanks for noticing!
Thanks for noticing!
to IMAN | 10:53 a.m. Nov. 12, 2008
We shall see, we shall see.
Serves Him Right! | 12:38 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
The California Musical Theatre in Sacramento, California today confirmed that
its Artistic Director, Scott Eckern, a Mormon, resigned under pressure this
morning after gay and lesbian artists began organizing a boycott of the theater
company over Eckern's $1,000 contribution in support of Proposition 8.
The Theater's Board of Directors said the organization is "dedicated only to the mission of providing quality theatrical productions. At no time does it involve itself in political issues or ever impinge on the rights of its employees to engage in political activities of their choice."
Before he resigned, Eckern issued an online apology through the theater publication, Playbill.
"I honestly had no idea that this would be the reaction," Eckern wrote. "I chose to act upon my belief that the traditional definition of marriage should be preserved. I support each individual to have rights and access and I understand that in California, domestic partnerships come with the same rights that come with marriage. I understand that my choice of supporting Proposition 8 has been the cause of many hurt feelings, maybe even betrayal," Eckern wrote. "It was not my intent."
The Theater's Board of Directors said the organization is "dedicated only to the mission of providing quality theatrical productions. At no time does it involve itself in political issues or ever impinge on the rights of its employees to engage in political activities of their choice."
Before he resigned, Eckern issued an online apology through the theater publication, Playbill.
"I honestly had no idea that this would be the reaction," Eckern wrote. "I chose to act upon my belief that the traditional definition of marriage should be preserved. I support each individual to have rights and access and I understand that in California, domestic partnerships come with the same rights that come with marriage. I understand that my choice of supporting Proposition 8 has been the cause of many hurt feelings, maybe even betrayal," Eckern wrote. "It was not my intent."
re: anonymous | 12:59 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
"They are acting like children both in the bedroom and on the
streets."
So, you are not a believer in legal, organized protests?
So, you are not a believer in legal, organized protests?
Religion and Gays | 1:02 p.m. Nov. 12, 2008
If everyone took the time and effort to see how a lot of religions have treated
their gay brothers and sisters through the ages, I think it would be apparent to
understand the anger they have towards them. I think this was probably the
tipping point.
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Wow two whoppers in one post! Your sources please on the amount you claimed. Also your assertion that the LDS church dumped money into California from Utah. Tell that to all the coalition members in California. Better yet look up the California Secretary of State's website and you can see where the donors came from and how much they gave. Admittedly that takes more effort than to report misinformation.