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Prop. 8 protest draws thousands in Salt Lake City
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KEEP PROTESTING | 9:24 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I think the target should be the visiting BYU Cougar athletic teams. Just like
in the '70s when the BYU teams traveled they were met with protests
demonstrating against the Church's treatment of African Americans. It is
time to renew the tactic. IT WAS VERY EFFECTIVE. Each BYU road trip to
California and elsewhere should have throngs of protestors pointing out the
hypocrisy of the Mormon church. The Mormons are the last group that should have
a say on defining marriage, given their history. They should be called on their
preacing of hate. After reading many comments on this board and elsewhere it
would be hard to deny they hate.
Proud To Be LDS | 9:25 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I am grateful to know we have a Prophet who follows the direction of the Lord. I
am also grateful to know there are thousands of good LDS people who follow the
direction of the Prophet.
At the end of the day the people voted just because the gay community did not like the outcome does not make it any less democratic. Or any one single organizations' fault.
The problem is we could argue this to death, but those in the right will sit back and allow those in the wrong to protest and cause trouble because ultimately the Lord's will will always be done.
I am sorry for the people who have chosen an alternate lifestyle. Please do not try to force others to accept your choices.
It will not matter how many choose your lifestyle, your numbers will never make it any less offensive to God or to those who worship Him.
At the end of the day the people voted just because the gay community did not like the outcome does not make it any less democratic. Or any one single organizations' fault.
The problem is we could argue this to death, but those in the right will sit back and allow those in the wrong to protest and cause trouble because ultimately the Lord's will will always be done.
I am sorry for the people who have chosen an alternate lifestyle. Please do not try to force others to accept your choices.
It will not matter how many choose your lifestyle, your numbers will never make it any less offensive to God or to those who worship Him.
washcomom | 9:26 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
It is amazing to me when the "GLAD" community asks for tolerance from
others, and it gives none when asked for it from them.
tol�er�ance
Pronunciation: ˈt�-lə-rən(t)s, ˈt�l-rən(t)s
Function: noun
1: capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurance , fortitude , stamina
2 a: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b: the act of allowing something : toleration
3: the allowable deviation from a standard ; especially : the range of variation permitted in maintaining a specified dimension in machining a piece
tol�er�ance
Pronunciation: ˈt�-lə-rən(t)s, ˈt�l-rən(t)s
Function: noun
1: capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurance , fortitude , stamina
2 a: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own b: the act of allowing something : toleration
3: the allowable deviation from a standard ; especially : the range of variation permitted in maintaining a specified dimension in machining a piece
Comments continue below
John | 9:26 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
This was a good rally. I was there. Reminded me of the civil rights movement.
I'm not gay and I'm not black but I believe in equal rights for
all.
Two people of the same sex getting married isn't going to hurt anyone. There is no danger. They are living together right now maybe next door. Is a marriage license going to change anything?
If God thinks this is a sin let him handle it. We aren't Gods.
Two people of the same sex getting married isn't going to hurt anyone. There is no danger. They are living together right now maybe next door. Is a marriage license going to change anything?
If God thinks this is a sin let him handle it. We aren't Gods.
Ex-patriot in China | 9:29 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I am a native Californian teaching in China and I voted for prop.8. This
business isn't about marriage- that is the symptom of the disease.
Homosexuals have a subconscious need to have their behavior seen as normal by
others of the species. It never has been the case and never will be. There is an
innate guilt feeling that is seeking validation, the lack of which causes guilt
and anger at the subconscious and/or conscious level. Their behavior speaks
sermons.
David | 9:31 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
This proves one thing...America is changing for the worst. The people of
California,Florida and Arizonia spoke. It wasn't the LDS church, it was
millions of people who voted their belief. To target the Mormon church is
ridiculous. It shows their ignorance. They have rights just like the rest, they
are just not changing the constitution and right now our constitution is hanging
on a threat so thank you California and all others who voted to uphold it.
Mona | 9:31 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
On Thursday night I watched the protest at the LA Temple on the internet.
Though I am pro-8 I appreciate that others feel differently and have the right
to protest and make their feelings known. However, I don't understand why
the LDS Church seems to be the only target, when a broad coalition of
Californians worked to defeat the measure. Some of the gay spokes-persons feel
the LDS is out of bounds by speaking out for the measure. Since when it is it
against the law in this country for a church, a business, a community
organization or an individual to express an opinion? Gays get to have their
opinions, yet they seem to think others should not when it doesn't agree
with theirs.
801 expat | 9:31 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
The absurdity of the church calling the protesters "mean" or
"inappropriate" is rich. It's like if a thief broke into your
house and smashed or stole all of your possessions, and when you caught him and
started calling him names and fighting back, he accused you of "not
respecting his rights". GIVE ME A BREAK! The mormon church has come into
my state and worked tirelessly to destroy my marriage. I think we have a right
to maybe protest that a smidge!
eyesnowopen | 9:32 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
As a Church member I am ashamed. Why? Because the LDS Church had a huge role
in the campaign--and the campaign relied on fear tactics and misleading/false
statements. You who live in UT have no idea as to what transpired here in CA.
The tactics and strategies used to fight are as important as the fight itself.
I bet Focus on the Family--James Dobson, Tony Perkins are enjoying this
spectacle of the protestors. We Mormons are gullible, blind fools.
Laura | 9:32 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
This is what I see coming in the near future:
*Ellen Degenerate throwing a tizzy fit on her show and begging (her buddy)Obama to "fix this!"
*General Conference will not only have the born-agains protesting outside but now, the gay coalition (whom they detest) will be numbered among them too!! It's gonna be a real show folks!
*Ellen Degenerate throwing a tizzy fit on her show and begging (her buddy)Obama to "fix this!"
*General Conference will not only have the born-agains protesting outside but now, the gay coalition (whom they detest) will be numbered among them too!! It's gonna be a real show folks!
Yeah, that's right | 9:33 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Yeah right, the Church has asked for a spirit of understanding from both sides.
The gay community has protested, defiled sacred property, name called,
threatened members of the Church, sought to have their tax exempt status revoked
even though they have broken no law or done anything to warrant that - they have
name called, vilified, just about everything they could do.
In the gay community, tolerance is defined as forcing the conservatives to accept their perverted lifestyle. Marriage has traditionally been reserved to a man and a woman. They produce offspring. Hopefully they stay together and are faithful. The children are raised in an enviornment of love with the benefits of a mother AND a father - both of whom have differing tendencies and characteristics which are necessary for the favorable setting for the rearing of children. Homosexuals cannot provide that enviornment, cannot reproduce and cannot - apparently - tolerate anyone who has any views different than their own.
Tolerance is a ONE WAY STREET!
In the gay community, tolerance is defined as forcing the conservatives to accept their perverted lifestyle. Marriage has traditionally been reserved to a man and a woman. They produce offspring. Hopefully they stay together and are faithful. The children are raised in an enviornment of love with the benefits of a mother AND a father - both of whom have differing tendencies and characteristics which are necessary for the favorable setting for the rearing of children. Homosexuals cannot provide that enviornment, cannot reproduce and cannot - apparently - tolerate anyone who has any views different than their own.
Tolerance is a ONE WAY STREET!
vegasjeff | 9:34 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
oh my heck, someone please think of the children!!!!
Wassup | 9:39 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
First of all Mr. Whipple, get you facts straight even though it make not serve
your agenda. You mentioned that the LDS church members donated 77% of the funds
to pass Prop 8. I just saw the KTLA video of the march at the Los Angeles
temple. They said that members had donated about $15M...........clearly less
than 50%. But in an effort to paint the LDS church members as the majority
donators, get your facts straight.
Stick to your civil unions. Don't force your definition of marriage down the throats of everyone else who believes your BEHAVIOR is immoral.
Perhaps your group will now petition diety to add two more commandments. Honor thy father and thy father and Honor thy mother and thy mother. That was TIC! Why is the vast majority of religious denominations against gay marriage?
BTW..........I look forward to your march in Compton or Watts to protest the high percentage of blacks and latinos voting in favor of the Proposition. Let me know how you are treated there vs. in SLC
Stick to your civil unions. Don't force your definition of marriage down the throats of everyone else who believes your BEHAVIOR is immoral.
Perhaps your group will now petition diety to add two more commandments. Honor thy father and thy father and Honor thy mother and thy mother. That was TIC! Why is the vast majority of religious denominations against gay marriage?
BTW..........I look forward to your march in Compton or Watts to protest the high percentage of blacks and latinos voting in favor of the Proposition. Let me know how you are treated there vs. in SLC
kenny | 9:41 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
There are many organizations scattered across the world that focus on the
family. The Latter Day Saint Church is probably one of the most respected and
influential of those groups.Should society embrace a new defination of the term
family and its makeup then that weakens the long estblished defination being
that of man and woman united together in marriage.Offering union to two beings
other than man and woman should be and will be spoken out againts by a moral
christian society.We have lost our focus on the principle of what is right and
wrong.God allows us to choose but He directs the judgements upon us.There is no
escape.
car face | 9:41 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
people need to grow up
pjw | 9:42 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I live in California, grew up in Utah. I think that the protesters have a
point. I dont agree with gay marriage, but the mormons should lose their tax
status for getting so heavily involved in another states politics.
Remember the they obtained the end of main street-one of the most valuable properties in SLC-for a song and a dance from the city.
Utah is the only state in the union that doesnt respect the US constitution and separation between church and state.
Every high school has a mormon building across the street and their theology on kid's class schedules. Shame on them and their half baked theology!
Somebody said that half of California is Mormon? Huh have you ever been here?
I supported Prop 8, but I would sure as hell rather get it passed without some religious groups violating the US constitution.
That after all is a hell of a lot more serious than gays marrying!
Remember the they obtained the end of main street-one of the most valuable properties in SLC-for a song and a dance from the city.
Utah is the only state in the union that doesnt respect the US constitution and separation between church and state.
Every high school has a mormon building across the street and their theology on kid's class schedules. Shame on them and their half baked theology!
Somebody said that half of California is Mormon? Huh have you ever been here?
I supported Prop 8, but I would sure as hell rather get it passed without some religious groups violating the US constitution.
That after all is a hell of a lot more serious than gays marrying!
vegas jeff | 9:44 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
such hateful comments from people who claim to be from a church of god.
The View | 9:44 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
To arc: What if the Constitution hung by a thread a no one was there to save it
because they were all at home watching Ellen?
reason | 9:45 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Most of you commenters don't seem to have the facts. The LDS church
preached from the pulpit in favor of prop. 8, they made up over 40% of the money
for the pro-8 campaign, and members were given "callings" to work on
taking away marriages from gays and lesbians.
What you are witnessing is people of good will, who have compassion and care about equality standing up against the imposition of LDS beliefs on the government of CA.
Being LGBT is genetic, and gays are not going away. You only have a choice about how you treat your fellow human beings. Sadly, the world is now seeing how cruel the LDS church can truly be. But at least some of you and your neighbors let the world know last night that not all Utahns are haters, and not all mormons lack compassion. And sometimes, people are willing to stand up for what is right and decent.
What you are witnessing is people of good will, who have compassion and care about equality standing up against the imposition of LDS beliefs on the government of CA.
Being LGBT is genetic, and gays are not going away. You only have a choice about how you treat your fellow human beings. Sadly, the world is now seeing how cruel the LDS church can truly be. But at least some of you and your neighbors let the world know last night that not all Utahns are haters, and not all mormons lack compassion. And sometimes, people are willing to stand up for what is right and decent.
RW | 9:48 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
With talk of "homophobes" and gay-haters, I believe, at least for
myself, we're not afraid of, nor do we hate, homosexuals. We just disagree
vigorously with the practice of homosexuality.
Personally, I view it as a sin, similar to any other moral sin like adultery, viewing of pornography, fornication, etc. We love the sinner and hate the sin.
Now, what I've said may sound unfair, biased, and morally "high-minded", but am I not free to voice my concerns in an open forum. And that, thanks to our founding fathers.
For those who believe in a living prophet and have a firm conviction of LDS beliefs, this is a very real issue. Much depends on it, both in people's lives and for society and the country. From that perspective, how could anyone expect us to stay silent when issues of such importance ARE on the ballot?
Personally, I view it as a sin, similar to any other moral sin like adultery, viewing of pornography, fornication, etc. We love the sinner and hate the sin.
Now, what I've said may sound unfair, biased, and morally "high-minded", but am I not free to voice my concerns in an open forum. And that, thanks to our founding fathers.
For those who believe in a living prophet and have a firm conviction of LDS beliefs, this is a very real issue. Much depends on it, both in people's lives and for society and the country. From that perspective, how could anyone expect us to stay silent when issues of such importance ARE on the ballot?
Who Me? | 9:48 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Those of you who keep asking why the Mormon church is being singled out remind
me of children asking their mothers why they are being blamed and not their
siblings when they were in fact the ones responsible for the blame.
Deseret man in Milwaukee | 9:49 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Isn't protesting what was ultimately the vote of the people in California
i.e. democracy in action (and yes it takes monetary support to bring about a
vote - unless the politburo is in charge) rather pathetic ? These same people
would probably applaud judges bypassing democracy to mandate laws while
bypassing 'we the people'. I would expect Rocky Anderson to be all
for such nonsense.
CP | 9:49 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I wish the media would stop giving exposure to these kinds of activities. But, I
do have one question. Are you who were involved in this protest on Temple Square
going to go and protest your so called cause at the Cathedral of the Madelain.
Because the Catholic Church also helped to get Prop. 8 passed. Or are you just
biased against the LDS Church??
Blue | 9:51 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
To Plain and Simple: You can look up the term civil marriage yourself.
However, you will not find it in your bible or Book of Mormon. Perhaps you
should change your moniker to Plain and Simpleton?
Biologist 2 cents | 9:52 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
It is ironic opponents of gay marriage argue homosexuality is "not
natural" because it does not produce offspring.
This argument is based on a complete MISunderstanding of biological science.
Biological science is on the side of the gays and lesbians!
Homosexuality is found extensively in the animal kingdom and is as "natural" as is heterosexuality.
Social symbiosis has been extensively documented in many species, including the valuable survival role provided by homosexual and nonreproductive members of many species within the species, as well as among different species.
Nobody can possibly argue that God DESIGNED humans to be strictly heterosexual and that homosexuality is, therefore, "unnatural" and "sinful" and will bring about the destruction of human societies.
Neither the scientific nor the ethical cases can be made for that.
By contrast, the ecological perspective in biology completely supports the "naturalness" of homosexuality as well as the societal benefits non-reproducing (homosexual) members and couples of species provide.
----------
Unintelligent Design (2003) by Mark Perakh and
Unintelligent Design: Why God Isn't as Smart as She Thinks She Is (2007) by Robyn Williams
The Blind Watchmaker (1986) by Richard Dawkins
Biological Exuberance (1999) by Bruce Bagemihl
This argument is based on a complete MISunderstanding of biological science.
Biological science is on the side of the gays and lesbians!
Homosexuality is found extensively in the animal kingdom and is as "natural" as is heterosexuality.
Social symbiosis has been extensively documented in many species, including the valuable survival role provided by homosexual and nonreproductive members of many species within the species, as well as among different species.
Nobody can possibly argue that God DESIGNED humans to be strictly heterosexual and that homosexuality is, therefore, "unnatural" and "sinful" and will bring about the destruction of human societies.
Neither the scientific nor the ethical cases can be made for that.
By contrast, the ecological perspective in biology completely supports the "naturalness" of homosexuality as well as the societal benefits non-reproducing (homosexual) members and couples of species provide.
----------
Unintelligent Design (2003) by Mark Perakh and
Unintelligent Design: Why God Isn't as Smart as She Thinks She Is (2007) by Robyn Williams
The Blind Watchmaker (1986) by Richard Dawkins
Biological Exuberance (1999) by Bruce Bagemihl
Arizona Guy | 9:52 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
The Arizona version of Prop 8 was Prop 102. I live on a corner, and all 4 of us
had Prop 102 signs on our lawns. 2 of us are LDS and 2 are Catholic. One of our
Catholic neighbors came to us to ask where he could get a sign, and of course we
gladly helped him get one. My other Catholic neighbor had his sign before we had
one. Protecting traditional marriage is important to many diverse religious and
ethnic groups, as demonstrated by the 70% of African Americans who also voted
for it in California. Somehow I don't think the primary source of
inspiration for those votes came from the LDS Church. Those who are ranting now
didn't have a problem when 4 judges dismissed millions of votes in the
previous California action. Now they dismiss the wide diversity of voting and
pick what they see as a safe target to vent their anger; the LDS Church.
MORMON POWER | 9:53 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
you fools give the LDS church way too much credit for the passage of Prop 8.
Are you really dumb enough to think that the Mormon church has that much power
in the state of California? The Mormon church more influential than Hollywood
and the coorporate giants like Apple and Google. As a California Mormon
I'm flattered, really!
They that be with us | 9:54 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Mormons should not be troubled or concerned about the protesters at temple
square. Those that followed the prophet in upholding traditional marriage can
draw comfort from the scriptures and see the parallel.
�Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about.
And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?
And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.
And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
We have done our part. It is not our fight anymore.
�Therefore sent he thither horses, and chariots, and a great host: and they came by night, and compassed the city about.
And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do?
And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.
And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
We have done our part. It is not our fight anymore.
SS | 9:54 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
1. Why are only the LDS being singled out? These protesters are very
hypocritical.
2. Why can't gay couples have civil unions with the rights that come with marriage but without legally requiring any church to recognize it as marriage?
3. You gay rights folks do realize that all the protesting and legislation in the world will never eliminate the 'ick factor' (your term, not mine), right? No judge will ever force straight people to equate gay to normal.
2. Why can't gay couples have civil unions with the rights that come with marriage but without legally requiring any church to recognize it as marriage?
3. You gay rights folks do realize that all the protesting and legislation in the world will never eliminate the 'ick factor' (your term, not mine), right? No judge will ever force straight people to equate gay to normal.
Don | 9:56 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Would those who claim that the law (Prop 8) discriminates agaist a certain class
of people, extend the same rights to those who desire plural marriage?
Apple Valley | 9:57 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I want you to know just how awesome it feels to stand up for Democracy. Last
week I walked my neighborhood and delivered flyers reminding people to vote and
asking for their vote on Prop 8. It felt wonderful to stand up for what I
believe in and ask others to do the same. Later in the day I stood on the
highway and waved signs that support Prop 8. Some honked in approval and others
gave me the international one finger salute. It didn't matter. I was
standing up for what I believe in.
I was in Westwood California on Thursday afternoon. My car has a support Prop 8 bumper sticker on it. I was honked at and called names and shown the one finger salute again and again. I just smiled and waved.
There is no hate in me. I believe marriage is between a man and woman. I am thankful to live in a Country that let's me vote and those that oppose my views vote. It is nice to know that others agree.
Driving, voting, hunting, and marriage are all privileges that the government has regulated for a long time. They are not rights.
I was in Westwood California on Thursday afternoon. My car has a support Prop 8 bumper sticker on it. I was honked at and called names and shown the one finger salute again and again. I just smiled and waved.
There is no hate in me. I believe marriage is between a man and woman. I am thankful to live in a Country that let's me vote and those that oppose my views vote. It is nice to know that others agree.
Driving, voting, hunting, and marriage are all privileges that the government has regulated for a long time. They are not rights.
Walter | 9:57 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Actually I think the LDS Church is getting too much credit for passing
proposition 8. I'm flattered that we are, but actually we were only one of
many organizations that were behind the effort. Thanks for the compliment
though.
Valley Girl | 10:01 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
When good people do nothing,
bad things happen,
Thank goodness the people of California are showing that they are good people, by getting rid of that that is offensive to us.
bad things happen,
Thank goodness the people of California are showing that they are good people, by getting rid of that that is offensive to us.
Brain Imbalanced | 10:03 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
All I know is that gay people are liars, trouble makers and stomp their little
feeties if they can't their way. The gay people are adults acting like
spoiled tempered babies. It's totally disgusting to see adults act as they
do. I'm totally repulsed to watch them. The protest last night was
completely ridiculous!
Hmmmm | 10:03 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Gosh, where did the LDS Church ever get the idea that homosexuality is
immoral?
Oh yeah, the Bible!
Gen 13:13
Gen 18:20
Gen 19:5
Lev 18:22
Lev 20:13
Duet 23:17
Isaiah 3:9
Ezek 16:50
Rom 1:27
1 Cor 6:9
1 Tim 1:10
2 Tim 3:3
Jude 1:7
2 Peter 2:10
Check it out.....
Oh yeah, the Bible!
Gen 13:13
Gen 18:20
Gen 19:5
Lev 18:22
Lev 20:13
Duet 23:17
Isaiah 3:9
Ezek 16:50
Rom 1:27
1 Cor 6:9
1 Tim 1:10
2 Tim 3:3
Jude 1:7
2 Peter 2:10
Check it out.....
Jay | 10:06 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I was born LDS and I was born gay. I have not been the target of much
self-righteous hatred by Church members because I am still deep in the closet.
But I have seen Church members say and so some of the most inhumane, hurtful
things to other gays who have come out of the closet. Friends of mine have been
beaten to within an inch of death by fellow LDS members. I understand such
violence is the exception and most members would never do that, but that is not
the point. The violence finds its roots directly in the anti-homosexual attitude
and spirit that permeates the Church.
But here is the beautiful thing about being homosexual. You cannot tell by looking at me. I serve in callings and move about among my ward and stake members and nobody knows. I send money to support groups and gay rights causes and nobody knows. I vote against Proposition 8 and nobody knows. I stay in touch with my friends and partner using the internet and text messaging and nobody knows. My beliefs are mine and I answer only to God for them. But you cannot discover me. My closet is safe.
But here is the beautiful thing about being homosexual. You cannot tell by looking at me. I serve in callings and move about among my ward and stake members and nobody knows. I send money to support groups and gay rights causes and nobody knows. I vote against Proposition 8 and nobody knows. I stay in touch with my friends and partner using the internet and text messaging and nobody knows. My beliefs are mine and I answer only to God for them. But you cannot discover me. My closet is safe.
Whatever | 10:09 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Are the gay & lesbian protesters going to head to Rome to protest in front
of the Pope? Protesting the Mormon Church and the state of Utah is only a
facade. It allows them to get in the news the way they want, and keeps the
issue alive. I have no problem with that, but come on, were Mormons the only
one's involved? Let's see some protests of African-americans or the
Catholic Church, etc. It's time that the protesters show some equality or
I will request that the tax exempt status of the Gay & Lesbian Associations
be removed!
VERY SAD | 10:18 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
It really sad to see rights not offered to people in the 21st century. Maybe we
should turn back the clock and take away the rights of others too.
WOMEN,BLACKS....
Why not? if one group cant have full rights why not take all rights away!
I mean seriously think about it. If you discriminate on 1 group you clearly send the message that hate on all groups is fine!
Why not? if one group cant have full rights why not take all rights away!
I mean seriously think about it. If you discriminate on 1 group you clearly send the message that hate on all groups is fine!
CA LDS | 10:18 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Boycott Utah? It was the CA Mormons who donated their effort to this cause. God
answers prayers. I must say that there is a difference between Utah Mormons and
CA Mormons. Our testimonies here in CA are tested on a daily basis, we
don't live in the comfort of the majority like Utah, we face more
discrimination and the weak don't last here.
research | 10:20 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
From what I've heard, the justification for homosexuality by those who
practice it includes several features. One is that they have a biologically
fixed and uncontrolable propensity toward having sexual relations with those of
their own gender.
As a scientific research librarian, I have done a study (just out of curiosity and never published), of the medical and biological literature databases, and have found that there are (conservatively) at least 2-3 times more scientific literature that links a biological propensity of the brain and alcoholism versus a biology propensity of the brain toward homosexuality. The real number is there is probably about 5-10 times more evidence for a biological propensity for alcoholism than for homosexuality.
Why is that our society treats one behavior that may have a biological component as a negative (alcoholism) and the other as a given, uncontrollable action, never to be questioned.
Personally, I believe there may be a biological propensity to many of our numerous negative behaviors. Our job in life is to resist such propensities. As a practicing LDS, I believe God would not put us on this earth without the power to overcome those propensities. Thanks for listening.
As a scientific research librarian, I have done a study (just out of curiosity and never published), of the medical and biological literature databases, and have found that there are (conservatively) at least 2-3 times more scientific literature that links a biological propensity of the brain and alcoholism versus a biology propensity of the brain toward homosexuality. The real number is there is probably about 5-10 times more evidence for a biological propensity for alcoholism than for homosexuality.
Why is that our society treats one behavior that may have a biological component as a negative (alcoholism) and the other as a given, uncontrollable action, never to be questioned.
Personally, I believe there may be a biological propensity to many of our numerous negative behaviors. Our job in life is to resist such propensities. As a practicing LDS, I believe God would not put us on this earth without the power to overcome those propensities. Thanks for listening.
Jed | 10:23 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
I wonder why so may guys on here are taking up for these loser guys. Geeze! Men
should be men and women should be women, and attracted to the opposite sex from
what they are. This is how we were all made by GOD. Quit twisting things around
to fit your sick perversions.
Gay LDS PhD | 10:24 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
To Phillip Smith,
Yes, we need thoughtful discussion based on reasoned empirical studies.
But we also need carefully considered meta-analyses rather than biased summaries such as you provided.
As a claimed scientist, you should know better than to declare vague, nonspecific support for a position based on "Professors... who studied THE ISSUE." That is not scientific, that is rhetoric of the most UNscientific kind. You attempt to give the illusion of scientific credibility without any science behind it. Moreover, science is not about "ideals." No scientist worth their PhD would ever "indicate" what you have claimed. None.
More importantly, to claim "the best unit for preparing the next generation" requires an agreement on what "best" means. The "best" outcomes for society are not always the "best" outcomes for individuals, couples, or groups, and vice versa.
Finally, you completely ignore and are unqualified to speak about the POLITICAL ETHICS of gay marriage. Even IF "uphold[ing] by example this [hetrosexual] ideal" is good, that does not mean "we should hold to and encourage all others to do so," especially through Constitutional Amendments voted by popular vote rather than Constitutional Convention and debate among ALL branches of government.
Yes, we need thoughtful discussion based on reasoned empirical studies.
But we also need carefully considered meta-analyses rather than biased summaries such as you provided.
As a claimed scientist, you should know better than to declare vague, nonspecific support for a position based on "Professors... who studied THE ISSUE." That is not scientific, that is rhetoric of the most UNscientific kind. You attempt to give the illusion of scientific credibility without any science behind it. Moreover, science is not about "ideals." No scientist worth their PhD would ever "indicate" what you have claimed. None.
More importantly, to claim "the best unit for preparing the next generation" requires an agreement on what "best" means. The "best" outcomes for society are not always the "best" outcomes for individuals, couples, or groups, and vice versa.
Finally, you completely ignore and are unqualified to speak about the POLITICAL ETHICS of gay marriage. Even IF "uphold[ing] by example this [hetrosexual] ideal" is good, that does not mean "we should hold to and encourage all others to do so," especially through Constitutional Amendments voted by popular vote rather than Constitutional Convention and debate among ALL branches of government.
RangerGordon | 10:27 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
The LDS Church strongly encouraged its members to participate in a concerted
effort to remove the existing rights of a minority.
Of course gays and lesbians are angry! They are fighting for their families!
Would you do any less?
Of course gays and lesbians are angry! They are fighting for their families!
Would you do any less?
Oh the hypocrisy!!! | 10:31 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
My favorite part of the whole article was the interview with Chandelle Bates.
Does anyone else see the fundamental problem of her teaching her children
"compassion" while calling the church "disgusting" . . . .
or is it just me?
Pathetic | 10:31 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
What do they honestly hope to accomplish by holding a rally? It doesn't
make sense. Being gay will never be a right, get over it.
Concerned | 10:33 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Any LDS member who opposes Prop 8 needs to read the scriptures a little more
thoroughly. Homosexuality is a sin and "the Lord cannot look upon sin with
the least degree of allowance." (Alma 45:16)
terawill | 10:33 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
How nice that someone can demonstrate their opinions with toddlers in tow. When
I did that at a rally with my toddler, he was struck in the head with coins from
a moving car going 60mph. Other people had rocks thrown at them, profanities,
nudity flashed - crazy stuff, all from opponents of Prop 8. Was that the
experience of the opponents who gathered at the temple? Hmmm, interesting.
Thank you | 10:33 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Thank You Catholic Church for your press release. Moral people should be
united.
JanSan | 10:35 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
This is really wrong! So all the movie stars and the Ca. Teacher Union and Power
Co. and all the ther rich people that poured money into the No on 8 vote we
should go down and picket around their places. Also, I think that it is very
telling that the LDS church is being so reconized as being the fource behind the
vote - wait to go other religions! You want us to join with your coalition and
then you let us take all the heat! Maybe if you had stood stonger yourselves
then we would not be the ones to get all this hate thrown at them. I guess when
the Lord has need of a fight He know who he can count on!
Timothy DoRight | 10:38 a.m. Nov. 8, 2008
Holding picket signs is a social event, and a meaningless expression of anything
in the 21st century.
The reason they are choosing the mormon church is because they always turn the other cheek. If they did this to the catholics or the baptists they would be nursing bruises right now.
mormons make up less than 3% of any given population in the united states. What this really should be viewed as is an attack on religious freedom by an even more meaningless hate group, i.e. the GLBTs of the country.
What a joke.
The reason they are choosing the mormon church is because they always turn the other cheek. If they did this to the catholics or the baptists they would be nursing bruises right now.
mormons make up less than 3% of any given population in the united states. What this really should be viewed as is an attack on religious freedom by an even more meaningless hate group, i.e. the GLBTs of the country.
What a joke.
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