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Hundreds protest over Prop. 8
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PropProp8 | 12:11 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Homosexuality is a behavior and therefore a choice.
To Eyes Wide Open 9:01am | 12:12 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Morris Thurston's "rebuttal" of the Six Consquences has itself
been thoroughly rebutted and de-fanged. I cannot supply links, but google
"keeping marriage true".
My son is gay as is a very good friend, and they both were for Prop 8, btw.
My son is gay as is a very good friend, and they both were for Prop 8, btw.
Steve | 12:13 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The funny thing is as Men and Women they do have the same rights as the rest of
us. As a man, I can't go out and marry another man so if it is equal
rights that they are looking for... well....
It bothers me that they try to associate this with the civil rights movements of the 50's and 60's. This is NOTHING like the civil rights problems that happend then. In those cases it was illegal to violate those laws.
Proposition 8 does not make same Sex merrage illigal just illegitimate (i.e. no one is going to Jail for being in a same sex marriage or for performing the marriage).
It bothers me that they try to associate this with the civil rights movements of the 50's and 60's. This is NOTHING like the civil rights problems that happend then. In those cases it was illegal to violate those laws.
Proposition 8 does not make same Sex merrage illigal just illegitimate (i.e. no one is going to Jail for being in a same sex marriage or for performing the marriage).
Comments continue below
Southerner | 12:14 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
We are born heterosexual. Those who think they are homosexual and think they
are "born that way" are wrong and it runs against nature.
Such Fools | 12:19 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The Mormon church and its members were duped by the Catholic and other churches
who requested their support of Propositon 8. In their misguided attempt to gain
respect from the other churches, who don't even consider them Christians,
the Mormons donated more money, more time and effort than all the others
combined, including fund drives and operating phone banks from as far away as
Utah. Because of their zealous and mean-spirited performance they have
rightfully become the lightning rod for the demonstrators opposed to Proposition
8. They deserve every bit of our contempt.
The Truth | 12:19 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Dogs bark but the caravan moves on...
Confused | 12:22 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
It is my understanding that there was an election and during that election the
voters in California were asked to vote as to whether or not they chose to
legalize gay marriage. The majority voted against gay marriage. Now these
voters are being ridiculed and hated for voting for what they believe. Further,
the group that did not get their way is throwing tantrums all over the city of
LA and blaming everyone else for their failure. I had a similar situation in my
house today when some of my children voted to watch a princess video instead of
a car video. As a result, one of my kids had to go to time out. It would appear
that those protesting need to use grown ups words and take a time out. The
hardest lesson of childhood: you don't always get you way. When we become
adults, it is important that we not forget the lessons we learned as children.
God does love us all, even when you are throwing a tantrum.
To Von Richtsofer: | 12:24 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
In 2000, Prop 22 passed by more than 60% of the vote. Eight years later Prop 8
passed by more than 52% of the vote, an 8% difference. The reason it narrowed
was only partially of changing attitueds. More likely the bigger reasons it was
closer this time was:
1. Governor Schwarenegger opposed it.
2. Senator Feinstein opposed it and ran ads attacking Prop 8.
3. Attorney General Jerry Brwon gave the oppenents a huge home field advantage by tying one hand behind the back of proponents of Prop 8. He changed the wording on the ballot to say it would take away gay rights that had only existed for five months. The judges on that court are attorney who mysteriously gain great knowledge and wisdom as the pull on their black robes to enlighten all of us ignorant bigots. By the way, the original wording would have read that it restored marriage between a man and a woman.
4. The State Superintendent of Education who lied in his ads when he said they would not teach marriage in schools. His own web-site confirmed that 96% of the schools do teach about marriage.
5. Continued to my next post.
1. Governor Schwarenegger opposed it.
2. Senator Feinstein opposed it and ran ads attacking Prop 8.
3. Attorney General Jerry Brwon gave the oppenents a huge home field advantage by tying one hand behind the back of proponents of Prop 8. He changed the wording on the ballot to say it would take away gay rights that had only existed for five months. The judges on that court are attorney who mysteriously gain great knowledge and wisdom as the pull on their black robes to enlighten all of us ignorant bigots. By the way, the original wording would have read that it restored marriage between a man and a woman.
4. The State Superintendent of Education who lied in his ads when he said they would not teach marriage in schools. His own web-site confirmed that 96% of the schools do teach about marriage.
5. Continued to my next post.
To Keble | 12:02 | 12:24 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Good for you!
Preaching the Gospel to decent folks will make our missionary efforts much more efficient.
Thanks!
Preaching the Gospel to decent folks will make our missionary efforts much more efficient.
Thanks!
Gayle | 12:25 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
A man and a woman = Marriage
Same Sex couple = civil union
Can't it be that simple?
Same Sex couple = civil union
Can't it be that simple?
To Von Richtsofer part 2 | 12:28 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
5. The California Teacher's Association who despite protests of many
teachers dumped in more than $1.25 million to fight it.
Take away those five factors and it would have been another hugh landslide in favor of Prop 8 close to numbers like Prop 22.
Take away those five factors and it would have been another hugh landslide in favor of Prop 8 close to numbers like Prop 22.
Christians Stand | 12:30 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I believe the Christian community is doing as the Bible says.
2 Thessalonians 2: 15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught.."
I don't think homosexuality is a tradition.
2 Thessalonians 2: 15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught.."
I don't think homosexuality is a tradition.
Dave | 12:31 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I want to get married to the fire hydrant outside of my house. Can we make that
legal as well?
Curious Observer | 12:34 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
In regard to my comment posted at 10:20 today: exactly as I suspected... Matthew
7:16 indeed. You cannot create truth - it just is. Shame on you for your
pride.
brian | 12:35 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
we have fine out that the people on the left do not have tolerance, they must
not be living in this county because that don't believe in the vote. you
want to love something then do so but please behind door and everybody do the
same, sex on the street make me sick.
Clarence | 12:39 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
"Maybe we homosexuals should pick up and leave this country in order to be
able to practice our beliefs."
What are you waiting for?
What are you waiting for?
Lane Meyer | 12:46 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
How can you have libertarian ideals in a socialist society? As this nation
continues to embrace socialism, more and more fights will erupt along these
lines. It is symptomatic of one group of people wanting to feed from the public
trough.
Commonsense from CA | 12:47 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Thanks CA citizens for standing up for truth and right on this Huge MORAL issue
of our time. This is not about civil rights, gays & lesbians have the right
to civil unions. Read California Family Section 297.5. This is about a small
miniority forcing their personal choice down the throat of the majority. If they
can't do it via a referundum, they resort to activist judges to trample
upon the rights of the majority, legalize moral decay and destablize our beloved
country and democracy.
Being gay or a lesbian is a choice. They, as a small miniority want to force the gay lifestyle down our throats. Why doesn't anyone ask the question. If only the gay rights proponents' parents would have adopted the cause and strictly lived it for just ONE GENERATION. The gay & lesbian zealots would not be here. The wide adoption of the lifestyle is not good for humanity. Think about that...if everyone in the world followed their gay and lesbian way. No children would be born into the world.
Being gay or a lesbian is a choice. They, as a small miniority want to force the gay lifestyle down our throats. Why doesn't anyone ask the question. If only the gay rights proponents' parents would have adopted the cause and strictly lived it for just ONE GENERATION. The gay & lesbian zealots would not be here. The wide adoption of the lifestyle is not good for humanity. Think about that...if everyone in the world followed their gay and lesbian way. No children would be born into the world.
DotDot | 12:47 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Homosexuality as been around for thousands of years. If you study history alot
of civilzations that have collapsed go back to banning this behavior. Why? For
one reason is the diseases associated with this life style. To name a few, anal
cancer, gonorrhea and gastrintestinal infevtions as a result of their sexual
practices. It is three times deadlier than smoking. Men who engage
inhomosexual behavior are 860% more likely to contract a sexually transmitted
disease. (The Centers for Disease Control). If you can convince me this is a
healthy safe environment do so. But I see it has a health hazard to the
public.
If the definition of marriage is redefined what is to guarantee it won't change yearly or at every sexual desire of another group?
If the definition of marriage is redefined what is to guarantee it won't change yearly or at every sexual desire of another group?
Anonymous | 12:48 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The definition of marriage as between a man and a woman is of relgious
contruction. Separation of Church and state is a necessary part of the freedom
we enjoy in the United States. You may not believe that God or your church
recognizes a marriage between a gay or lesbian couple as such, but the law
should not deny any citizen a right which is available to the rest. Gay and
lesbian people deserve happiness and equal opportunity under the law too,
whether you believe that homosexuality is a choice or not. My best friend is a
lesbian and I hope that one day she will have the same right that I do to marry
whomever she loves.
To various posters | 12:55 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
To Thinking: The reason gay marriage is confusing to you and your son is
because gays cannot define marriage.
To Sherry Talbot: You can love anyone you want, but please define marriage for us.
To Keble: Please define marriage to us. To simplify for you, you can drop the adjectives of civil or temple.
To Gayle: You've got it! It's all about words. They mean something. When we use them in ways they don't fit they lose meaning. When they lose meaning we have a harder time communicating ideas to one another.
To Sherry Talbot: You can love anyone you want, but please define marriage for us.
To Keble: Please define marriage to us. To simplify for you, you can drop the adjectives of civil or temple.
To Gayle: You've got it! It's all about words. They mean something. When we use them in ways they don't fit they lose meaning. When they lose meaning we have a harder time communicating ideas to one another.
Southerner | 12:55 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
"We are born heterosexual. Those who think they are homosexual and think
they are "born that way" are wrong and it runs against
nature."
And you know this because?
And you know this because?
Utah Cougar | 12:55 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
If you're not sure about this, ask God, he listens, and he answers.
you KNOW | 12:57 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
"I will stand by the teachings of the church, because I KNOW it is
true."
I guess the debate is over.
I guess the debate is over.
Skippy | 12:58 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The voice of the people have spoken.
TO: Dennis Wofford | 12:59 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The same thing you just have said has been said for almost 180 years. No, the
Church will NOT fall apart or dwindle away.
geedub | 1:01 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
No one is denied the right to marry. Homosexuals can marry anyone they want, as
long as they marry someone of the opposite sex, because marriage is defined as
the union of a man and a woman.
It doesn't matter how many times you call a screwdriver a saw it's still a screwdriver. Marriage is the union of a man and woman. If you want to unite with a person of the same sex you have to call it something different, like civil union.
It doesn't matter how many times you call a screwdriver a saw it's still a screwdriver. Marriage is the union of a man and woman. If you want to unite with a person of the same sex you have to call it something different, like civil union.
Rich | 1:01 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Helaman 5:12
Jason, NYC | 1:02 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
"An openly gay man in our office married his partner two months ago, yet he
routinely goes on "dates" with other men every weekend, this is just
part of their lifestyle."
So, I learn from this:
1) all gay men go out on their partners
2) heterosexuals don't go out on their partners
Glad I read these postings.
So, I learn from this:
1) all gay men go out on their partners
2) heterosexuals don't go out on their partners
Glad I read these postings.
Southerner | 1:02 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
There are probably more homosexuals in California than Mormons and still they
could not get out the vote. They gave us much money as the Mormons to campaign
according to their freewill for the against Prop 8. And they want to blame the
Mormons??? Give me a break.
re: Jason, NYC | 1:03 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
last posting was regarding Jason, NYC not from Jason, NYC.......
To Keble | 1:09 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Please give us your source of where the LDS church gave money. Only KNBC 4 got
it right this morning that members of the church donated. All the other news
outlets misinformed the public by saing the church donated to Yes on 8. Do they
not have editors before they go on air?
Go Cougars! | 1:11 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
We need to discuss something less controversial, like BYU kicking Utah's
fanny in two weeks.
Wait...did I say "less"?! :-)
Wait...did I say "less"?! :-)
Ello | 1:12 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Well, tonight I will join many others in downtown SLC where we will voice our
objections to the illegal use of religion in secular politics.
I think that the LDS church has their right to be against gay marriage, but they cannot get involved in legislation, and they have done that. This is America, we stand for freedom of religion and freedom from others religious views.
I solute all the true patriots that see this is a civil rights issue, and want to continue to make this country great by setting the example of government.
I think that the LDS church has their right to be against gay marriage, but they cannot get involved in legislation, and they have done that. This is America, we stand for freedom of religion and freedom from others religious views.
I solute all the true patriots that see this is a civil rights issue, and want to continue to make this country great by setting the example of government.
STUPID | 1:19 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
IT's plain to see that only The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
wanted this proposition passed? So lets blame them for this. STUPID
Why Oh Why | 1:23 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
This will be the typical liberal campaign where they will try to wear down the
citizenry with protests and media blitzes, tearing down and riduculing anyone in
their way.
Give them an inch and they take a mile.
Give them an inch and they take a mile.
Dan in CA | 1:23 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
To those who are upset and surprised by the reaction of many in California,
please try to put yourselves in our shoes: Imagine waking up to learn that YOUR
marriage was annulled by a group of people who don't agree with you.
While I haven't joined any protests, I am nonetheless hurt and upset to have my marriage ended by someone else.
While I haven't joined any protests, I am nonetheless hurt and upset to have my marriage ended by someone else.
To Anonymous | 1:25 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
You have told me what my definition of marriage is. I have repeatedly asked for
your side's definition of marriage. I have been waiting for over 12 hours
now with no response from anyone. Are there none of you that can answer that
question? I didn't think it would be this hard to get a response.
RE: southerner | 1:27 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
"We are born heterosexual."
Explain hermophradites.
Explain hermophradites.
Ol Scratch | 1:29 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Heh heh heh...I was right...you CAN buy anything in the world with money. Even
the California constitution!
Robert Johnson | 1:31 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
The mormon church helped finance a campaign that was based on blatant lies and
deceit. For a religion to engage in that type of conduct is despicable.
The "ends justify the means" mindset can never justify religion. The mormon church should be ashamed of themselves.
The "ends justify the means" mindset can never justify religion. The mormon church should be ashamed of themselves.
That would have been good | 1:37 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I only wish the internet had been available during the 60s. Can you imagine the
DesNews discussions during that period? What? Me prejudiced?
To Anonymous: | 1:38 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Separation of church and state is a farce. The Senate begins each session with
a prayer. The consitution simply states there will not be a state-run/sponsored
religion. Gay's and Lesbians can be happy with their lives without
changing the definition of Marriage. What they want is acceptance...which is
not the same thing as wanting the 'rights'. They should push for
'Civil Unions' for everyone and leave 'Marraige' to those
who hold it's definition dear.
To Ello | 1:40 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
In your post you used the word marriage. Please define it for us. This is not
a trick question. It is not rocket science. Help us out and tell us how you
define that word.
Re: To all the haters... | 1:48 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Amen...
Very well said....
Very well said....
Equal Rights for ALL | 1:55 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I will be out there protesting for those that are not able. I don't feel
that I can make a decision for someone else when I am not in their shoes and I
believe in equal rights for all. The fact that 70+% of Blacks voted for the
passing of Prop 8 repulses me. Them, more than anyone, should know the feeling
of discrimination by their own country and should be have voted against hate and
discrimination. The only argument that I can give them is that most were
probably young voters and had forgotten what their parents and grandparents went
thought to give them their freedoms.
Dear Gay Agenda | 1:55 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
You lost the debate. The votes are in. The people have spoken.
The result:
Marriage remains the original definition that involves the union between a man and a woman.
Main questions answered in the debate:
Are people born without a choice as to who they will have sex with?
--No, we all have the right to choose our sexual orientation by who we choose to have sex with.
Is it a matter of civil rights?
--No, equal rights are granted to everyone, regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation, or any other distinction of humanity. America allows for any person who is a member of the human race to marry according to marriage's upheld definition.
Does the government owe benefits to unions other than marriage?
Government benefits are not inalienable rights. Marriage technically does not have any extra rights than individuals outside of marriage; however, the government has attached benefits to marriage that gay unions fairly desire. The government doesn't typically benefit every group in society evenly though, nor do they have to (no flat tax, for example).
The protest:
Demonstrates further that some don't respect democracy. The decision ran its course. Lobby for benefits, without changing marriage. Debate over!
The result:
Marriage remains the original definition that involves the union between a man and a woman.
Main questions answered in the debate:
Are people born without a choice as to who they will have sex with?
--No, we all have the right to choose our sexual orientation by who we choose to have sex with.
Is it a matter of civil rights?
--No, equal rights are granted to everyone, regardless of gender, race, sexual orientation, or any other distinction of humanity. America allows for any person who is a member of the human race to marry according to marriage's upheld definition.
Does the government owe benefits to unions other than marriage?
Government benefits are not inalienable rights. Marriage technically does not have any extra rights than individuals outside of marriage; however, the government has attached benefits to marriage that gay unions fairly desire. The government doesn't typically benefit every group in society evenly though, nor do they have to (no flat tax, for example).
The protest:
Demonstrates further that some don't respect democracy. The decision ran its course. Lobby for benefits, without changing marriage. Debate over!
AM | 2:07 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Everyone in California still has the right to marry- a member of the opposite
sex
No More Racial Parallels | 2:10 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
A couple notes, please refrain from referring to this battle as the same as the
civil rights battle. Nobody is being lynched, nobody is being held from voting
or from obtaining employment. That civil rights battle for the GLBT community
has already passed. Even if you see a relation, the magnitude is not parallel
(much like Iraq--a terrible war fought unjustly/immorally is not equivalent in
scale to Vietnam). To say this fight is the same is insulting...just as the
Mormon church's persecution was not equivalent to slavery. When was the
last time one of the leaders of the GLBT advocacy was gunned down? When was the
last time a busload of supporters was stopped, tortured, and left to die? To
compare the two struggles is counterproductive. It only makes the sympathizers
of the civil rights battle unsympathetic to your cause. There may be a
connection here as to why you failed to gain the support of the African-American
and Latino communities.
Be an Example | 2:11 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Yes, I do KNOW that the church is true. Please don't mock me. If you would
like to know for yourself read the Book of Mormon and pray about it. Last I
heard mocking someone was an unchristian thing to do...no? This online arguing
back and forth does nothing ...But I will end with a few quotes and scriptures
for those interested...
"As a prophet reveals the truth it divides the people. The honest in heart heed his words, but the unrighteous either ignore the prophet or fight him. When the prophet points out the sins of the world, the worldly either want to close the mouth of the prophet, or else act as if the prophet didn't exist, rather than repent of their sins. Popularity is never a test of truth. Many a prophet has been killed or cast out. As we come closer to the Lord's second coming, you can expect that as the people of the world become more wicked, the prophet will be less popular with them."
Also Matthew 10:27-40.
"As a prophet reveals the truth it divides the people. The honest in heart heed his words, but the unrighteous either ignore the prophet or fight him. When the prophet points out the sins of the world, the worldly either want to close the mouth of the prophet, or else act as if the prophet didn't exist, rather than repent of their sins. Popularity is never a test of truth. Many a prophet has been killed or cast out. As we come closer to the Lord's second coming, you can expect that as the people of the world become more wicked, the prophet will be less popular with them."
Also Matthew 10:27-40.
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