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FLDS pledge political activism in Texas
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No Different | 12:49 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Good for the FLDS. Thier banning together is NO different than the 97% of
blacks that voted for Obama.
Gal50 | 12:52 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
The fear of regular people is that they can lose their voice in local
government. The local government in short creek is all FLDS. The FLDS come into
a rural area and bring more people than live in the area. It would be hard to be
governed by the FLDS if the organization feels you are not among the chosen.
Joey | 1:07 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Well, someone needs to be held accountable, that's for sure. Innocent
families, women and children, were wrenched apart, threatened, and emotionally
and physically abused. They shouldn't be able to get away with what
they've done to the FLDS in Texas. We're in a civilized country. This
isn't Afghanistan. People have rights.
Comments continue below
anonymous | 1:18 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Fat Willie has a Big mouth to go with his stature. Most FLDS families have
decided NOT to return to the ranch.
The only ones going to pay are those men who married and had sexual relations with underage girls!
Get your act together FLDS!
The only ones going to pay are those men who married and had sexual relations with underage girls!
Get your act together FLDS!
re: Joey | 1:51 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Yes, we do have rights - we also have laws! Why should you have the RIGHTS when
you continue breaking the laws?
Something Funny | 1:55 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
The election just happened and they did not make a difference in this election.
Why? Why would they not vote now to make changes?
Anonymous | 1:58 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
These religious prisions need to be shut down. No voting rights should be
extended to sexual offenders in the name of god.
Joey | 2:09 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Ahhh, some people still like to lump the FLDS all together. If one allegedly
breaks the law, then they all break the law. Let me know what town you live in,
and the next time someone in your town commits a crime, I'll refer your
entire town to the CPS, so they can haul of your kids, and put them all up for
adoption. And then let's have the cops go tear every house apart on your
block looking for evidence of adultery or some such antiquated law. Sheesh!
Kev | 2:14 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
FLDS are offensive to the human race. They embarrass those of us who have a
brain. Their twisted perversions however, need to be cleaned up for the sake of
their children. very sad situation for the FLDS children who are raised by
perverts.
Mrs. | 2:35 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
I think it's great that they're a bit more open to getting involved in
the real world now.
Kev | 2:52 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
And if you think the FLDS are perverts (a big name to just throw out there) what
do you call the homosexuals who want to marry? Now that is a perversion
according to most religious canonized scriptures, where as Polygamous marriage
has been around and considered divine in the Old Testament portion of the Bible
and Kohran for centuries and is still practiced by thousands worldwide. The way
it has been practiced among the FLDS is a perversion of our US law which does
not allow, for very good reasons, under age sexual encounters of young women
with older men. Women finally have a voice and don't want to be forced
into marriages anymore. With that said however, some of the FLDS, but not
all,intimidate young women into early marriages but there are many of the young
women who do feel it is their divine call and they should have the right, at the
appropriate age with in the law, to choose and at least have the same rights as
a homosexual couple when it comes to civil liberties. I don't believe
either union however should be allowed to marry under the law for many varied
reasons.
nosugrof | 3:08 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
That hatemongers like Doran and Hildrebram were so wasily relected is truely
unfortunate.
To Joey | 2:09 | 3:25 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
If I decided to live in a town founded on and dedicated to evil oppression,
manipulation, and violation of the rights of women and children, I guess I would
expect to be a suspect.
I would also whine a lot -- like you do -- in the hope that I could sucker a few morons into feeling sorry for me.
Doesn't work very often, does it?
I would also whine a lot -- like you do -- in the hope that I could sucker a few morons into feeling sorry for me.
Doesn't work very often, does it?
Joey | 3:48 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
What works or doesn't work is irrelevant. There is a Bill of Rights with
prescribes certain protections families in this country can expect from
indiscriminate raidings and plunderings of their children and belongings. Those
protections under the Bill of Rights are afforded to individual families. They
are not community rights; they are *individual* rights. The sheriff and the
rangers violated their oath to uphold the Constitution of this country by
blindly raiding the homes of families for which they had no probable cause to
suspect them of wrongdoing other than the vicinity in which they live.
TO FLDS | 3:50 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Deranged acts against God in the name of God. NOW, how weird is that? You folks
need to repent!
Sponge Bob | 3:57 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
The FLDS are a good indication of those who do not live righteous.
legalize it | 3:58 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
The best thing that could happen is for polygamy to get legalized as a result of
this ongoing litigation. Then us LDS can go back to practicing it the right
way, as opposed to the way the flds is doing it today with underage girls
marrying 80 year old men.
JW Morrison | 4:01 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Just because people don't believe or act like you doesn't mean they
don't have rights. If you take away the rights of a single group then you
make it possible to take away the rights of another group.
Soon, your group will be the one that rights are taken away from if you don't help to keep the rights of another.
As far as polygamy, I don't support it, but as more and more that believe in Islam come to this country, who believe in polygamy, it will not be long before polygamy will be recognized in this country as legal. There are many Muslims in this country that practice polygamy right now but you don't see them being attacked for their actions.
Soon, your group will be the one that rights are taken away from if you don't help to keep the rights of another.
As far as polygamy, I don't support it, but as more and more that believe in Islam come to this country, who believe in polygamy, it will not be long before polygamy will be recognized in this country as legal. There are many Muslims in this country that practice polygamy right now but you don't see them being attacked for their actions.
To Joey | 3:48 | 4:47 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
To respond to your latest disingenuous whine:
As, of course, you know but are unwilling to admit, there was no indiscriminate plundering.
There was a detailed, internally consistent, believable complaint. That it turned out to be manufactured was unknown at the time. Nor has anyone suggested there was any connivance by local law enforcement.
When law enforcement and CPS attempted to investigate the complaint, rather than cooperation, they encountered lies, harrassment, and hindrance at every turn. The limited investigation they were permitted to conduct led them to reasonably and correctly conclude that the whole community was involved in either the illegal behavior or in facilitating it, which makes them guilty as principals.
Everything that followed, including action by the Court of Appeal, was 100% by the book, and resulted in the protection of scores of children, as well as the parental rights of non-abusing parents.
It must be embarrassing to you when you run into someone who knows enough not to swallow your bilge, but you ought to get used to it. Thanks to Texas authorities, we're all learing more about the FLDS.
And we aren't through with you.
As, of course, you know but are unwilling to admit, there was no indiscriminate plundering.
There was a detailed, internally consistent, believable complaint. That it turned out to be manufactured was unknown at the time. Nor has anyone suggested there was any connivance by local law enforcement.
When law enforcement and CPS attempted to investigate the complaint, rather than cooperation, they encountered lies, harrassment, and hindrance at every turn. The limited investigation they were permitted to conduct led them to reasonably and correctly conclude that the whole community was involved in either the illegal behavior or in facilitating it, which makes them guilty as principals.
Everything that followed, including action by the Court of Appeal, was 100% by the book, and resulted in the protection of scores of children, as well as the parental rights of non-abusing parents.
It must be embarrassing to you when you run into someone who knows enough not to swallow your bilge, but you ought to get used to it. Thanks to Texas authorities, we're all learing more about the FLDS.
And we aren't through with you.
Jacob | 4:50 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
I'm sure their will always be a few nitwits on our globe who will indulge
in the sinful practice of polygamy. The world has had degenerates on it since
the beginning of time who have participated in many immoral acts. However, woman
should have the RIGHT to CHOOSE if they want to live a life style of sin, and
with an infectious old man full of disease.
realitycheck | 4:59 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
I really wouldn't worry about this. The FLDS members don't get
involved - that's why they lost their trust fund.
If they do take over, easiest thing to do is just move. Property values would plummet anyway, and who wants to live next to fanatics anyway.
And those of you talking about polygamy - NO ONE CARES ABOUT THAT. Polygamy has NEVER been the issue. It's the underage marriages that's the problem. And that won't stop - it's part of their religious doctrine - per the FLDS members themselves - and quoted AGAIN just the other day in an interview with a Barlow. He stated that it was part of their religious doctrine, and when the reported asked him if he knew it was illegal, he stated "if they want to get married, why should we stop them?"
It's too bad we can't just give them a large piece of land and leave them alone. Go in once a year and remove any girls over 10 years old - and let the rest do whatever they want. That's really the only solution I can see.
If they do take over, easiest thing to do is just move. Property values would plummet anyway, and who wants to live next to fanatics anyway.
And those of you talking about polygamy - NO ONE CARES ABOUT THAT. Polygamy has NEVER been the issue. It's the underage marriages that's the problem. And that won't stop - it's part of their religious doctrine - per the FLDS members themselves - and quoted AGAIN just the other day in an interview with a Barlow. He stated that it was part of their religious doctrine, and when the reported asked him if he knew it was illegal, he stated "if they want to get married, why should we stop them?"
It's too bad we can't just give them a large piece of land and leave them alone. Go in once a year and remove any girls over 10 years old - and let the rest do whatever they want. That's really the only solution I can see.
J-man | 5:03 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Joey, the FLDS like to justify their way of life under the pretense of religion
and hide behind the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.
But how many of them actually serve in the military protecting freedom?
But how many of them actually serve in the military protecting freedom?
Same OLE...... | 5:13 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
I always know if I read an Flds site or blog, that I'm in for great
perversion lecture. Where do you people come from? It certainly isn't
heaven.
BoneThickBetweenTheEars | 5:20 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Re: J-man,
Flds are too busy hiding under the skirts of woman. Flds are nothing but sexual cowards.
Flds are too busy hiding under the skirts of woman. Flds are nothing but sexual cowards.
Joey | 5:35 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
"The limited investigation they were permitted to conduct led them to
reasonably and correctly conclude that the whole community was involved in
either the illegal behavior or in facilitating it, which makes them guilty as
principals."
--------------------
This is a very controversial conclusion: to conclude that an unknown large number of families and individuals living in numerous buildings and homes on 1700 acres of land are collectively guilty of something based on rumors and speculation is...well...unprecedented. I think the question will be scrutinized and settled by the Supreme Court, hopefully in a manner that preserves the rights of all communities against unwarranted blanket assault by government authorities.
--------------------
This is a very controversial conclusion: to conclude that an unknown large number of families and individuals living in numerous buildings and homes on 1700 acres of land are collectively guilty of something based on rumors and speculation is...well...unprecedented. I think the question will be scrutinized and settled by the Supreme Court, hopefully in a manner that preserves the rights of all communities against unwarranted blanket assault by government authorities.
Reload | 5:50 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Amazing.
FLDS participate in polygamy and the call it a crime.
Hugh Hefner does it and they call it "The Girls Next Door" reality TV show.
The only difference: Blonde bibos with fake boobs vs. homely women in long skirts, poofy hair and running shoes.
FLDS participate in polygamy and the call it a crime.
Hugh Hefner does it and they call it "The Girls Next Door" reality TV show.
The only difference: Blonde bibos with fake boobs vs. homely women in long skirts, poofy hair and running shoes.
realitycheck | 5:51 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
wrong, Joey. This is old news, and no one will even remember it except a small
group of religious zealots living in the desert. If you think it's going
to the supreme court, you're naive.
really - no one cares except you, a couple of other posters, and a bunch of religious fanatics that have no business raising children anyway. With luck, they won't go back to the "ranch" (or underage brothel, as we call it) and they will simply assimilate into the general population.
really - no one cares except you, a couple of other posters, and a bunch of religious fanatics that have no business raising children anyway. With luck, they won't go back to the "ranch" (or underage brothel, as we call it) and they will simply assimilate into the general population.
HL | 6:07 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Reload kinda has a point...
Ironic | 6:26 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Religious outfit establishes superior numbers to manipulate local politics. See
also Utah liquor laws, and the 'LDS Church thankful for prop. 8
support' story.
MR POLYGAMIST | 6:58 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
yes sireeee, we polygamists are much like the old boy, Hugh Hefner, we lover
boys all need to "stick together" when it comes to all the lady folks,
who also come a dime a dozen in our groups. Switching wives around has it's
rewards as well. Take my word-Hugh Hefner has it more together with the
teddy-wear though.
Red | 8:13 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
anonymous 1:18 pm: "The only ones going to pay are ..."
The entire community has paid horribly already.
The entire community has paid horribly already.
John Pack Lambert | 9:25 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
To the 4:47 commentator,
The complaint was not internally consistent. If they had thought through it they should have first checked medical records which would have proved the hospitalization claim was a sham. If they had been into fixing the problem they would have talked to Barlow on the phone. They wanted to get in there and steal the children.
While I disagree with polygamy, I do not agree that being a member of the FLDS Church should be grounds for deneying the vote, which seems to be what some people want.
People have a right to move into new areas. The old boys networks runners in West Texas have to figure out ways to coexist with new people instead of trying to imprison them all.
The complaint was not internally consistent. If they had thought through it they should have first checked medical records which would have proved the hospitalization claim was a sham. If they had been into fixing the problem they would have talked to Barlow on the phone. They wanted to get in there and steal the children.
While I disagree with polygamy, I do not agree that being a member of the FLDS Church should be grounds for deneying the vote, which seems to be what some people want.
People have a right to move into new areas. The old boys networks runners in West Texas have to figure out ways to coexist with new people instead of trying to imprison them all.
Christian | 10:43 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
The Utah God is a different God from the rest of the world.
zxcvbnm | 10:57 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
The pre-raid drivil continues. There were no pregnant girls.......none ...zero...zilch.
400+ children and their parents were cleared by CPS
SCOTEX declared the siezure of the kids illegal. The US 5th Circuit put an end to immunity for future raids.
If in fact the FLDS could get enough people to vote as a block they would gain control of one precienct and perhaps the Sheriff but that would entail getting perhaps 1000 voters on the ranch. A bloc is a long way off.
Keep gripeing about the flds and you may get just what you fear.....a mass migration from shortcreek to YFZ......10,000 church members and the biggest cheese factory in Texas.
To John P | 9:25 | 11:06 p.m. Nov. 5, 2008
Your comments show both your ignorance and your bias against law enforcement and
child protection professionals.
Why do you assume -- completely unencumbered by the facts -- that they were incompetent or acted out of bad motive? The FLDS were treated the same as anyone else.
They have no right to stonewall, demanding conditions on their cooperation, such as medical records checks or endless and pointless telephone negotiations.
You would not have been permitted to engage in such dilatory gamesmanship. Why should the FLDS?
No one has "deneyed" the FLDS the vote. Obviously, no one denied their right to move into the area. No one tried to imprison them. And the only people refusing to coexist are the FLDS.
Why do you assume -- completely unencumbered by the facts -- that they were incompetent or acted out of bad motive? The FLDS were treated the same as anyone else.
They have no right to stonewall, demanding conditions on their cooperation, such as medical records checks or endless and pointless telephone negotiations.
You would not have been permitted to engage in such dilatory gamesmanship. Why should the FLDS?
No one has "deneyed" the FLDS the vote. Obviously, no one denied their right to move into the area. No one tried to imprison them. And the only people refusing to coexist are the FLDS.
R | 4:42 a.m. Nov. 6, 2008
//pointless telephone negotiations.//
You mean the telephone calls they made to prove the alleged abuser lived in another state?
Give me a break.
You mean the telephone calls they made to prove the alleged abuser lived in another state?
Give me a break.
Joey | 7:30 a.m. Nov. 6, 2008
Re: John P. You are missing the point. The CPS and LE were treating the entire
community as one home. That was their first mistake. They should have stopped
there. Instead they continued on treating them all like one household.
It'll take the Supreme Court to enforce the point *again* that the YFZ
ranch was NOT one household it was a community of households. LE and CPS had no
right to treat them all as one house. End of story.
to zxcv | 8:59 a.m. Nov. 6, 2008
"The US 5th Circuit put an end to immunity for future raids."
What are you talking about? Which case did that? Are you talking about the SCOTEX ruling on sending the kids home?
What are you talking about? Which case did that? Are you talking about the SCOTEX ruling on sending the kids home?
Oklahoma Mormon | 9:17 a.m. Nov. 6, 2008
You girly boys sure know a lot about women's rights. Since you are so smart
how come we didn't vote for or against you? Illegal search is what is in
question, not some not existant crime. If Big Brother doesn't like you, he
will go to any means to harrass you. Get a real life, you do not know what you
are talking about. Find out the truth first, not what the media says.
zxcvbnm | 10:06 a.m. Nov. 6, 2008
The US 5th Circuit made a ruleing in an Arkansas case that sets precedent for CPS immunity within the %th circuit jurisdiction. The ruleing was made a few months ago and even Crimmins made a comment acknowledging the ruleing.
It seems that now individual CPS members can be held libel for errors in siezeing children. Only the child that is the subject of an investigation may be siezed and not all children within a household.
I am sure a lawyer can explain the details better than me but it boils down to CPS has to get it right and can't round up every child in a household. Even Crimmins is aware of the ruleing but it came too late to apply for flds.....State immunity covers a blind Voss for this mess.
J-man | 11:16 a.m. Nov. 6, 2008
Joey, since you are the self-appointed FLDS spokesman, how about an answer to my
question.
How many FLDS serve in the military? Or is it considered too un-spiritual?
How many FLDS serve in the military? Or is it considered too un-spiritual?
Joey | 11:35 a.m. Nov. 6, 2008
zxcvb.. re: Voss' immunity. She likely won't have it regardless of the
Gate's ruling this year. If bad faith, recklessness, or prejudice can be
shown, she will have NO immunity. She ordered the mass seizure of hundreds of
children disingenuously insisting they all belonged to one household -- an
assumption that defies common sense.
zxcvbnm | 12:55 p.m. Nov. 6, 2008
We'll se how the immunity issue plays out for the present case. Future cases look like they may not occur. I am sure that the State has informed the present staff about the 5th circuit court decision and Crimmons is aware of it.
To the persons so concerned about FLDS military service. There were several flds men drafted during WW2 as well as others subject to the draft during its existance.
I am not aware of any flds serving in the military now but hey.......those 18 year old "lost boys" could certainly sign up if they so chose.
anonymous | 7:05 p.m. Nov. 6, 2008
Weird Willie said he wanted 800 voter registration cards in May!!
HAHAHAHAH!!!1
How many FLDS voted in The county! 50!!!! the Big 50!!!
Whoa now! Big turnout on FLDS part! lol
How many FLDS voted in The county! 50!!!! the Big 50!!!
Whoa now! Big turnout on FLDS part! lol
To Joey | 7:30 | 8:54 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I'd say the one missing the point is not To John.
Here's the point -- there was not a single cooperative family in that compound. Every last one was engaged in either illegal activity with minors, or in actively covering up that illegal activity. That kind of "Yearning for Zion" makes them all co-conspirators.
And that spells danger for every kid in the compound. That's why they were removed. And that's why the ones returned are all on CPS parenting agreements and properly under CPS surveillance.
Here's the point -- there was not a single cooperative family in that compound. Every last one was engaged in either illegal activity with minors, or in actively covering up that illegal activity. That kind of "Yearning for Zion" makes them all co-conspirators.
And that spells danger for every kid in the compound. That's why they were removed. And that's why the ones returned are all on CPS parenting agreements and properly under CPS surveillance.
realitycheck | 11:47 a.m. Nov. 7, 2008
of course no FLDS would ever serve in the military. They make it a point to
take but never give anything back.
Besides, if they're scared of Warren Jeffs, they don't stand a chance against real adults!! How pathetic is that?
Besides, if they're scared of Warren Jeffs, they don't stand a chance against real adults!! How pathetic is that?
zxcvbnm | 1:58 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Read it again....... flds men have served in the military.
Every family was not engaged in illegal activity. Every family is not under service plans.
The ones under service plans were coerced...sign or we take the kids...Coercion.
Geezz people..........get your facts straight.......the rumor mill is what started this mess.
R | 2:12 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
I wonder if all of you fretting over whether any FLDS members have served in the
military have actually researched the question.
I also wonder whether you would bring it up if it were a Quaker congregation under discussion.
Heck, I wonder if you've served in the military yourselves.
I also wonder whether you would bring it up if it were a Quaker congregation under discussion.
Heck, I wonder if you've served in the military yourselves.
Retired Stripling | 4:17 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
To R:
Yep, I served. 32 years. Never met an active FLDS. Served with a very fine soldier in Kuwait, a "lost boy" from SLC, who had been stripped of his faith by the hypocrisy of his leaders.
The point being made was that FLDS men are takers, users, and oppressors. Not givers.
They'll take from the Nation, use its laws and freedoms, but wouldn't think of giving back.
I'm sure Joey and zxcvbnm will have some snarky and irrelevant comment, but there is no rebuttal.
Yep, I served. 32 years. Never met an active FLDS. Served with a very fine soldier in Kuwait, a "lost boy" from SLC, who had been stripped of his faith by the hypocrisy of his leaders.
The point being made was that FLDS men are takers, users, and oppressors. Not givers.
They'll take from the Nation, use its laws and freedoms, but wouldn't think of giving back.
I'm sure Joey and zxcvbnm will have some snarky and irrelevant comment, but there is no rebuttal.
R | 5:20 p.m. Nov. 7, 2008
Given that there's probably less than two thousand of them eligible for
service, and given that they're scattered over a few states, the fact that
you didn't meet any of them doesn't mean a thing.
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