Deseret News | Reader comments: California group delivers petition to LDS headquarters in S.L.

Reader comments
California group delivers petition to LDS headquarters in S.L.

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Anonymous | 1:58 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

This is news how ?

clholli | 2:08 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

What light minded person thought a petition on such an issue would make any diffrence, on whether or not a church that suports the union of a man and a woman, would make any diffrence? Can we say (HELLO).

bikeboy | 2:20 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

The source of the statute is not the Mormon's Monson. He is just an advocate of the position taken by the Bible on the subject. Popular opinion is irrelevant in that context. Thus, why the petition? To "make" news by drawing attention to the Mormon position? To try to "embarrass" the Mormons publicly among their "modern" and more "liberal" neighbors? It was not likely calculated to change any opinions.

Comments continue below

Sarah Beth | 2:34 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

As an LDS person in California, I fully support Proposition 8.

Karlene | 2:52 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

There are thousands of California LDS members who are happily contributing to the Yes on 8 campaign...and with every right to do so!

FG | 2:52 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law? AN NOW THE CHURCH IS SPENDING OUR MONEY TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION OF CALIFORNIA? SHAME...

TLewis | 2:57 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Gay and Lesbians aside from making death threats to Mayors and Church men are throwing every thing but the kitchen sink at proposition 8. Diane Feinstein a supporter of Gay rights is not considering the rights of children to have normal parents. Marriage is for the sake of a societies posterity not just for someones right to have anal or same gender sex. These people are promoting things that are against nature let alone against the historical family and children's rights. These people are just selfish and care nothing about children only their own lust.

AMT | 3:04 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

I grew up LDS in Northern California, and as I matured I was always impressed that the church appeared to work hard to stay out of political matters. I remember the bishopric and elders year after year encouraging members only to do their civic duty and vote according to their conscience.

So I have been inordinately saddened to find the church beginning to encourage its members to support particular measures, such as Prop 8. At a time when the LDS church is still widely perceived as being a sort of cult, its leaders choose to publicly involve themselves in a measure that seeks to deny civil liberties to particular individuals.

Vote your conscience on prop 8 - I'm not using this space to judge an individuals' choice. But I'm sad to see what i perceive as the LDS church attempting to be perceived as 'mainstream' by conservative churches. Working against Prop 8 is not going to make the church any more palatable to a hardcore evangelical churchgoer, whose mind is likely made up about Mormons. What it will do is discredit the church in the eyes of moderate individuals, who might otherwise be excellent prospective members.

GaryTheTiger | 3:15 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

The previous comment seems rather lie-filled to me. If gays were making death threats against officials, it would be making national news. The reality is that religious marrige is not going to be offered to gays and lesbians regardless if the church doesn't want to, and no church is going to be forced to marry a gay couple. This is about civil marriage. No religion should be trying to prevent civil marrage. The same people who would discriminate against gays and lesbians want to make sure that everyone else has to do so also, so they don't feel like the odd ones. For fairness to all, and to make sure that gays aren't singled out for special discrimination for all time, vote NO on proposition 8.

nathan | 3:19 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

When Jesus appeared to Native Americans did he ask them to make sure the laws of earthly governments followed his teachings, or did he ask them as individuals to follow him?

I imagine one doesn't save souls by legislation.

manaen | 3:21 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Their petition would make some sense -- if the LDS Church actually donated $ to the Prop 8 campaign.
.
It hasn't/doesn't/won't.

BP | 3:23 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

LDS members in California are welcome to support any California proposition or ballot initiative they choose to, and support it in any legal way they see fit. Nobody is arguing with that.

What has upset people is non-residents deliberately trying to influence political affairs in another state. How would you like it if a large number of citizens from, say, Vermont decided to begin influencing a ballot initiative in Utah? You'd ask, (rightly,) what business is it of theirs what your ballot issues are. And the answer is that it's none of Vermont's business. Just as Utah's ballot initiatives are none of Vermont's business, so are California's ballot initiatives none of yours.

And if you do feel that strongly about it, put your mouth where your money is. Go to California and stand in those protest lines. Don't hide behind your wallets; go to San Francisco and help your California LDS brethren.

manaen | 3:24 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

AMT,
.
The LDS Church claims to be led by revelation from God. Our leaders are called to, well, lead. Most folks are comfortable with the idea that a prophet's role is to warn when the tribal wisdom is wrong - until he does it and then come the complaints that the prophet is out of step with the tribal wisdom. That's his job!

Chris | 3:26 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

The fact that the Mormon Church is contributing financially to this political initiative should invalidate its tax-exempt status. If the Mormons, or any other church wish to play politics, they need to start paying taxes - otherwise we, the taxpayers are subsidizing their activities.

Anonymous | 3:26 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Every child deserves a mother and father. As a daughter and a mother I know that no woman could replace my father or my husband.

I feel so sorry for children in same-sex homes. They are missing a vital element of human relationships. Social science backs that up, but some people only like science when it agrees with their agenda.

Re: FG | 3:28 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Keep in mind, it's the funds willingly donated to the church by faithful members of the church who are in full support of the Leadership of the church.

John | 3:31 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Proposition 8 is NOTHING more than bigotry, discrimination, and hate. Doesn't anyone remember this show before? It was all about inter-racial marriage then and it was just as disgusting. Now the LDS and anyone supporting Prop 8 are playing the bigot as history replays itself and history will judge just as harshly. Denying love between two people? That's about as hateful as it gets.

doxie_ellen | 3:35 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Either you are a tax-exempt church or a tax-paying lobbyist. If any church starts meddling in politics, they should lose their tax exemption! You can't be both!! I support equal rights for all, as proclaimed in the constitution!

Kathy | 3:46 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

I have no problem with legal civil unions with all the rights, however, I do have a problem with gay marriages performed in churches. Stop screwing with people's faith.

Ignorant of the law | 4:10 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

People clamoring for Churches pushing for specific to lose tax exempt status are speaking for a place of ignorance. They don't understand law, they just feel better saying, "Get them!" It may feel like justice to people but it isn't the way the law works. Oh well, enjoy the angst.

Trogdor | 4:14 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

The church hasn't contributed money directly. It's members have been encouraged to contribute in any way possible, but as of yet the church hasn't funded the proposition 8 campaingn, only supported it.

Anonymous | 4:17 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

A petition to stop funding support on something that will be voted on in *TWO* business days? Give me a break.

Californian | 4:18 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

"I feel so sorry for children in same-sex homes..." O.k., then don't marry someone of the same gender. It's that simple. As a married heterosexual I shouldn't have any authority to impose my beliefs (especially if I don't live in the same state). Tell me again about how children are harmed (especially the ones who are adopted by loving and committed homosexual couples. Say no to discrimination and vote No on Proposition 8.

Californian | 4:21 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Don't forget Loving v. Virginia (1967). The majority of Americans were opposed to interracial marriage. Did that make it right?

Paul | 4:23 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

As a resident in California everyone should be aware of what is going on. Same sex unions in California are currently protected by cival laws. This Proposition is about the definition of marriage and takes no rights away from those that choose to follow same sex relations. There is absolutly nothing written into it to say discrimination. As a supporter of YES on Prop 8 I have had my support Porp 8 signs stolen, I have had notes of hate left on my car, I have witnessed outright lies occur in the media. Ask yourself why would the other side stoop to such tactics?
It is about creating a sense that same sex relations are acceptable and no different. Once kids are taught that it is "OK", they will grow up and be very tolerant of same sex relations. The reality is the minority are driving this under the fake portrayal that they are being discriminated against.
That is false, that is wrong. God help this nation and its current liberal direction.

Steve Williams | 4:25 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

I don't want my kids learning in school about homosexuality. Stop trying to cram your beliefs down my throat. I'm not cramming mine down yours.

Re: John | 4:30 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

I agree - along with laws prohibiting grown men from having intimate relationships with little girls. If it's "love," you shouldn't judge, right?

Miketwill | 4:33 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

I agree that this is a civil matter more than religious. The LDS church has a greater than thou attitude and obviously no tolerance for ideals that dont mesh with their cultist ways. I would not worry as much about children of same sex marriages as gays seem to be more compassionate and caring than your cracked out poverty stricken urban nightmare parent/parents. Its a case by case thing.

Fed Up | 4:41 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

The streets of my city (Neewport Beach) have been lined with sign-waving, pro-Prop 8 activists. It was depressing for me to think my neighbors had become so mean-spirited. My husband even said it made him re-think whether he wanted to live here.

Then we found out they're all Mormons, most of them from out of state, bussed in to work in favor of this proposition. I also learned the LDS Church was the largest contributor of funds to Yes on 8.

I used to have a favorable view of Mormons. No more. I now see that Mormons are determined to impose their narrow morality and religious views on the whole U.S. And have the money to pull it off.

Please -- work for laws you want in your own state, not mine. We don't come to Utah and lobby for changes to your constitution -- so please return the favor. The very reason I live in California is because I want a progressive, tolerant environment for myself and my family.

CA Resident | 5:38 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Please Mormons, and others, we need your help to pass prop 8, and protect our families.

everyone quit whinning | 5:58 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Everyone of age has the right to vote. Vote according to what you believe is right, or who you think will best help the state, the country ect.

People and organization will push the views they believe in. I think it is great that we can see people who care about what they believe in be it yes or no.

Not just marriage | 6:22 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

This is not just about 'equal rights' or marriage. This has repercussions far beyond that. Last week, an elementary school in Hayward, California had a "Coming Out Day" and an "Ally Week". The kindergarten classroom is used at lunchtime for the Gay-Straight Alliance. "Jane and the Beanstalk" was one of the stories read to the children. Parents had NO RIGHT TO OPT THEIR CHILDREN OUT OF THE WEEK'S INSTRUCTIONS AND EVENTS.

A few weeks ago a 1st grade class went to San Francisco City Hall on a school outing to witness and celebrate their lesbian teacher marrying her partner (by Mayor Gavin Newsom). This was classed as a 'teachable moment".

Check these stories out online - these are not myths floating around that people have made up.

Also check out the official California schools site. Parents have NO RIGHT to opt their children out of this instruction, and marriage IS required in 96% of California schools.

Domestic partners/civil unions in California have all the legal rights that married couples have. Nothing is denied, except traditional marriage.

Right now parents do not have rights to determine their own families moral teachings. School is now and will teach about gay marriage.

John S. | 7:02 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Fed Up "Then we found out they're all Mormons, most of them from out of state, bussed in to work in favor of this proposition. I also learned the LDS Church was the largest contributor of funds to Yes on 8."

1. The Local members are holding up the signs, at least where I live in California.
2. The Church has not donated to Yes on 8.
3. 1/3 of the money for No on 8 is coming from out of state, which is a much higher percentage than for Yes on 8.

So why don't you complain about the No on 8 who is getting 1/3 of their money out of state.

Please get your facts straight.

David S. Fanene | 7:08 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

To bad, the LDS Church wont back down from what is morally correct.

alex | 7:18 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Steve Williams, by trying to pass this you actually are trying to impose your views on others. Gay people just want to be left in peace and have the same rights as anyone else. You're trying to take that away.
Has everyone forgotten about separation of church and state? Not everyone believes homosexuality is a bad thing. It is found in animals in nature so it is a natural occurance, and they are not hurting anyone. If you changed how you viewed it, you would realize there is nothing to fear. If any of you had a gay relative or friend you really cared about would you feel the same way?

Anonymouse | 8:03 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

But even if Prop 8 passes it still be overturned since any lawyer can argue that it violates the Equal Protection Clause in the State and Federal Constitution which not only overturn that but also other ones in other state there by putting the "traditional marriage" movement on ice preeminently.

Freedom of relgion | 8:59 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Those who scream "intolerance" are really attacking our freedom of religion! Don't believe it? Ask the Methodist Church in New Jersey where the minister refused to "marry" a same sex couple and a liberal judge ruled they will lose their tax free status. Ask the Catholic Church in S.F. who rather than be forced to adopt children to gay couples, left the city. Ask the doctor in Ca. who for religious reasons refused to perform artificial insemination for a lesbian couple now being sued for "discrimination" These people are not tolerant of your religion people! They want to force you to give up your freedom of religion! This is what is at stake here!

anonymouse | 9:09 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Freedom of relgion, That's a load bullcrap. Separation of Church and State cuts both ways. The Catholic Church hasn't been force to marry divorced people yet. There are Churches like United Church of Christ or Metropolitan Community Church who would happily marry a gay couple whether if it's legal or not.

Re: anonymouse | 9:21 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Read the constitution! Separation of church and state means there will be no "state religion" no government sponsored religion. Has nothing to do with religious people not having a say in the government!
We don't care what the United Church of Christ or any other church does about gay "marriage" that is up to them. But you want to force us to accept your morality!My children will not have to read "Heather has two mommies" paid for by tax dollars in public schools. You are trying to force some to give up their freedom of religion to support your sins with public funds in many cases!

Re:anyonymouse | 9:28 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

How much do they charge to marry you? Just a business to them apparently! Some people and churches can be bought off but some never will be! Case closed.

Freedom | 9:33 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

You are right! Give me liberty or give me death! I for one will never, never give up my religious freedom! For me, this is the "line" I will never cross, never give up, never surrender! Yes on Prop 8! It is not about "tolerance" or love it is about religious freedom! Your freedom and mine to practise our religion without interferance!

AZCapitalist | 9:42 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

God Bless America. God Bless Freedom of Opinion. Prop 8

Californian #1 | 9:46 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

OK, the Yes on 8 campaign is seeking to change the state constitution. So???

The California Supreme Court declared same-sex "marriage" legal without any consideration to the earlier decision by the voters on Prop. 22 or the current will of the people. It was the court that changed the constitution in the first place. Prop. 8 is an effort by real people all over the state to reverse this abuse by that small group of judges.

Anynonmouse | 9:46 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Freedom, Then what's next if prop 8 passes would your side force all non-christian to be christian? But If you don't your kids to learn about gays in public school put them in private school.

Anonymouse | 9:54 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

AZCapitalist, Hate to break it to you even Prop 8 passes it can still be overturned by Equal Protection Clause on the Constitution. Whereas Rights of a Minority cannot be suppressed by the tyranny of Majority.

njp | 9:56 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

If the gay population has no agenda but only to live in peace and quiet........then why take small children to witness a gay marriage, or why force schools to teach gay lifestyles, call anyone against gay marriage hateful, legislate for gay rights etc etc etc.

Anonymouse | 9:58 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Californian #1, I guess you forgot about the check and balances of our government in your civics class Further Rights of minority can not be suppressed by the majority. It's like 3 wolves voting on whether a sheep lives or not.

Anonymose | 10:07 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

njp, Last time I check the parents organize the field trip and send permission slips. From my understand is it remind everyone that not automatically assume someone is straight and that is not a choice just as much being straight isn't a choice.

So is all we need is 18,000? | 11:22 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

Do you think that if there were 18,000 residents in CA that went to the judges that changed this law and asked that they change it back, would they? I don't think so, I am surprised that anyone would even go to the church about this, first of all, it is not our place to council the church leaders and it is not their place to council God. We are here to be obedient to the commandments as revealed to living Prophets by our Father in Heaven. Gay marriage is contrary to Gods plan and for the large percentage, whom I believe choose to act on these feelings, it is not going to change to justify their giving in to their desires. We all have weakness and we all have to pay the price when we give into that weakness, be it gambling, adultry, smoking, drinking, being obese or a child molester. Some people lose their money, or spouse, or get lung cancer, or are alcoholics, or have health problems, or even end up in jail. I am fat and lazy, should I say that God made me that way, no, I neglected my health all on my own.

RE -- Nathan | 11:35 p.m. Oct. 31, 2008

If you accept that Jesus appeared in North America then you will accept that he is directing President Monson on the policy of the Church regarding gay marriage. Your logic is ridiculous. You must not believe Jesus appeared in America because you do not believe the counsel of the prophet and I caution you that this is a very slippery slope you are on. I assure you the church would not be concerned about this if the Lord was not concerned about it. And obviously the Lord was concerned about it several years ago when he had the Presidency of the church issue "The Proclamation on the Family." Yet again proof that as Amos states, "Surely the Lord God will do nothing save he revealeth his secrets unto his servants the propehts."

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