Comments about ‘MWC football notebook: Mountain West a conference of haves, have-nots’

Anyone who has watched these teams play know that several of them are very good and barely lost to top 20 teams. They will improve, its only a matter of time.

This is why the BigEast and the ACC are still ranked ahead of the MWC by the computers. They don't have as many ranked teams, but they don't have as many gimmies either. The MWC has two teams in ESPN's "bottom 10" list. Even the WAC only has one.

giving the Big East and ACC automatic bids to the BCS bowls is such a farce. Lots of average and medicre teams, but no really good teams, and yet the Big East and ACC still get a guaranteed berth in a BCS game.

I swear this is the same arguement used by MWC supremacists to disparage the WAC. Supposedly the MWC is supposed to be the greatest conference ever because it is sooooo balanced. The WAC is supposed to be second rate because it only has a few good teams and a bunch of garbage. Besides, Boise supposedly is leaving the WAC for the mtn. HA HA HA HA!!! I wish the MWC homers would realize that the success of the MWC and the WAC are tied together nationally and stop trying to put everyone else down (BYU fans I'm looking at you). It is no accident that all the BCS "busters" have been either WAC or MWC. Maybe now the supremeacists will have to find a new attack line (maybe they can have McCain work on one after Nov 4).

would probably be in third place if they were in the PAC-10.

The MWC has two teams in the bottom 10 but the WAC only one? I agree that both Wyoming and SDSU deserve to be there but Idaho is probably the worst team in the country. And do you think Utah State is better than Wyoming and SDSU, if they are it's by a razor thin margin. Not so sure I'd be on my WAC soap box to brag about that...

Are you seriously arguing that the WAC is as good as the MWC? Combine the two conferences and this is how they would rank from top to bottom:

1. Utah
2. TCU
3. Boise State
4. BYU
5. Air Force
6. Colorado State
7. San Jose State
8. Fresno State
9. New Mexico
10. Hawaii
11. Nevada
12. UNLV
13. New Mexico State
14. Lousiana Tech
15. Utah State
16. San Diego State
17. Wyoming
18. Idaho

Still think the WAC measures up?

I'm surprised that anyone would argue that the WAC is as good as the MWC this year. Split the conferences into three tiers; elite, middle, bottom and you'll see it's not even close: Utah/TCU/BYU are collectively head and shoulders above Boise State/San Jose State/Fresno State. Air Force/Colorado State/New Mexico are much better than Hawaii/Nevada/New Mexico State. And the bottom three of each, UNLV/SDSU/Wyoming vs. Louisiana Tech/Utah State/Idaho, is a wash. Convinced yet?

The wac, who the heck are you people trying to convince of your power. Boyzee State and nobody else period, zero, notta. You all are just rung's on a ladder for BSU.

Wyoming and SanDiego are terrible, but anyone who is remotely intelligent would know that there is no way they are worse than utst, nmst, idaho. Theres no way. Also has ESPN's bottom 10 become a national poll? If I remember its just 1 mans perspective for fun instead of legit. No way any of the Wash teams are worse than the WACs bottom half. In fact outside of Boise the Wash teams would probably finish 2-3 in the Wac.

RE: Re: Turn about... | 11:19 a.m. Oct. 30, 2008 and all you other MWC supremacists:

Your rankings lose all credibility at the very top. Boise is ranked above TCU in EVERY major poll. Your rankings are therefore based on your own biased opinion regarding the MWC. Fresno has been disappointing, but they are still receiving votes and should be ranked ahead of Colorado State. So you make your own poll to "prove" your point? You are delusional...

What surprises me the most is that MWC supremacists use the same biased thinking and flawed logic to assert their greatness that the BCS cartel uses to claim dominance. Yet the MWC supremacists whine and moan when their own logic is used against them!!!

Still think the MWC measures up?

The mtn, who the heck are you people trying to convince of your power. (Insert dominant team on given year, say...BYU for the last few years) and nobody else period, zero, notta. You all are just rung's on a ladder for (initials of dominant school...BYU). Convinced yet?

In the spirit of full disclosure, due to Idaho's vicotry over New Mexico State they get a 1 week reprieve from the bottom 10.

Fair question from a Pac-10 fan. Oh, yeah, you've got Boise State--which IS legitimate--and those one-hit wonders, the Hawaii Rainbows, who forget what a football is the second they leave the islands. Fresno's OK, but nobody trembles in fear when they hear the name, either. So--Who else? Seriously. Idaho? Utah State? San Jose? La Tech? Keep trying to defend THAT and give us all a laugh, will ya?

Also seriously--the Mountain West IS a better conference, at least THIS year. Look at UNLV, winless in MWC play, beating ASU in Tempe. Granted, ASU's a disappointment, and the Pac-10's having a down year--BUT then again, New Mexico beat Arizona, BYU smashed UCLA, and Utah topped Oregon State. The MWC's plenty competitive this year, tell ya that much!

So--aside from Boise State, let's hear all about the WAC's signature wins over BCS opponents. Tell us all when a winless-in-conference WAC team has ever, EVER beaten a BCS foe. You WAC folks, make your case! ON THE FIELD, TOO!

"Really"...you sound like you are trying to convince yourself of this "fact."

There is no way any of the Wash teams are worse than the MWCs bottom half. In fact outside of TCU the Wash teams would probably finish 2-3 in the mtn. UW had BYU beat! Anyone who is remotely intelligent would know that wyoming and sdsu are worse than Utah State at least.

(You see, this arguement is a two way street and proves nothing, which is my point. "1 man's perspective")

TCU's only loss was to #4 Oklahoma and they beat then #8 BYU. That's why I think they're better than Boise State. BSU's only signature win was over then #16 Oregon. But go ahead and switch TCU and BSU in my rankings, if it makes you feel better, it doesn't really change anything. By the way, don't be surprised if TCU jumps Boise State in the 'polls' (that you like so much) if the Horned Frogs beat Utah in seven days.

As far as Fresno State goes, they have been nothing but a HUGE disappointment. Who cares if they are still receiving some votes in whatever poll, they ALMOST and should've lost to Utah State! That says it all right there! It's ironic though how you'll try and use a national perspective to try and prove your point when the consensus among national pundits this year is more centered around the MWC possibly being better than the ACC and Big East, with no mention of the WAC anywhere in that discussion.

Hey BSU fan, it's funny how critical you are of others for being too biased when you yourself are completely incapable of listening to reason. Maybe this will help. These are Jeff Sagarin's Conference Ratings:

1 BIG 12 (78.18)
2 BIG TEN (77.24)
3 ATLANTIC COAST (76.97)
4 SOUTHEASTERN (76.54)
5 PAC-10 (74.33)
6 BIG EAST (73.44)
7 MOUNTAIN WEST (70.27)
8 I-A INDEPENDENTS (67.33)
9 WESTERN ATHLETIC (65.57)
10 MID-AMERICAN (65.18)
11 CONFERENCE USA (63.31)
12 SUN BELT (61.11)

Notice how the Mountain West is closer to the PAC-10 and Big East conferences than they are to the WAC. In fact, the MAC is breathing down your neck and Conference USA isn't too far behind either.

I am a Pac-10 fan too, and the Pac-10 is in real trouble when its fans start comparing it to the MWC...

There are no winless teams in the WAC this year. The point of the article is that the MWC is top heavy. Your shining example of success in OOC games is UNLV? They lost to in-state rival and WAC member Nevada AT SAM BOYD STADIUM. Oops. Your other examples are a buch of top of the heap mtn schools beating lower tier Pac-10 schools. Boise beat Oregon and Fresno beat UCLA...same thing.

Let me get this straight...your standard of success is "when a winless-in-conference WAC (or MWC) team has...beaten a BCS foe?" Seriously? I'll play along for a second. Last year at 0-2 in the WAC, Nevada had already claimed a victory at Northwestern. Hey, just like your example it was a team from Nevada!

If the Horned Frogs beat Utah, then Utah will drop below Boise. If it wasn't obvious by my "biased thinking and flawed logic" comment that I hate the polls, well...I hate the polls. I just think your rankings are worse. That's your opinion though. As long as we are downplaying signature wins...what is BYU's signature win?

Fresno's close call against USU does say it all: that the bottom of the WAC is not as bad as you want to make them seem. No winless in conference teams in the WAC right now. USU also played BYU tougher in Logan than most people thought was possible. That score "ALMOST and should've" been 34-21. BYU is better than Fresno, but probably not by much.

So you want to give your pundit friends some dap when they talk good about your conference, but discredit them when they ignore you? I believe this same conversation last year was about the WAC among the lower BCS conferences with no mention of the mtn. It's the same song with different lyrics. Like I have said before, the WAC and the MWC are basically the same and need each other. Cooperation not separation.

... the point was that the MWC is much more competitive against the Pac-10 than the WAC. To gauge a conference's OVERALL effectiveness in this way, you take the performance of its LOWER-ranked teams into account. So looking at what the LOWER-ranked MWC teams have done against the Pac-10 is embarrassing but true. It's the evidence on the field--ultimately the only evidence that counts.

The competitiveness at the TOP of the Pac-10, if you ignore USC, is more or less equal to the MWC. TCU, Utah, and BYU would all be strong competitors for 2nd in the Pac-10 this year. So would Boise State, but ONLY Boise State from the WAC. That's the real deal.

So even most of the lesser MWC teams have had success against the Pac-10 this year--what you see in a strong conference. The WAC bottom-feeders, though, would still supply the Pac-10 across the board with an automatic W. No doubt about that.

As for saying "the Pac-10 is in real trouble when its fans start comparing it to the MWC," well, yes. Exactly. I couldn't agree more. Time to admit it: Parity has caught up with the Pac-10, Big Least, and ACC.

Worst Athletic Conference EVER!!!!

I am not a BSU fan. You sir make too many assumptions. I guess you must be a BYU fan. Oops, there I go contradicting myself again. I love reason, which is why I have been trying to provide some. Are you capable of listening?

The ratings for the MAC and CUSA are up because of Ball State and Tulsa, respectively. Great achievements and I respect them.

I swear I read somewhere that someone said the MWC was better than the ACC and the Bib Least. I guess you proved that wrong! Thanks!

Funny thing is...you want to use your chart to prove that the mtn is better than the WAC, yet still argue that the mtn is better than a few BCS schools? Great "reason."

The MWC is still over 3 points behing the Big Least. I guess "close" is relative. You want to lump the mtn in with the Pac-10 when the difference between the Pac-10 and the MWC is roughly the same as it is between the MWC and the WAC? I guess the distance looks a lot shorter when you are looking up rather than LOOKING DOWN ON someone (including the MAC and CUSA).