Detmer needed to be honored but let us not forget Jimmy Mac. THE BEST EVER!!
Brad Rock, I totally agree with you. In all of BYU football history, Jim
MacMann, Steve Young, Ty Detmer and Robbie Bosco where by far the most exciting
to watch and no one did better in the NFL than Jim MacMann. Steve was great
You say without McMahon there would be no Detmer. Your prob right. McMahon did
give BYU the National respect. Which easily leads to the conclusion that Detmer
played much better competition and still holds the records. IE: Florida State,
Miami, Penn St, Colorado etcSo when 66000 Cougar fans watch a BYU football
game and glance up to the ring of honor, they WILL see Detmers #14 but not
McMahons #9 regardless of whom you or I think is better.And if I
remember correctly, Lavell asked McMahon to redshirt so he would not have to
make a decision between Wilson and McMahon. Maybe he still goes with McMahon,
but it also shows that McMahon was not that overwhelming QB stud that the
Cougers couldn't put off a year.And of course, I do think Stockton
is the best pure "point guard." If he wanted to be a better scorer, he could
have as evidenced by his above 50% shooting percentage. Why don't we
throw a few more comparisons that public don't agree with but the numbers say
different.Marino over Montana, Farve and ElwayAaron over RuthDr. J over JordanSanders over EmmettMaddux over Clemmons,
Not sure why you had to bring Stockton into this...but now I have to get into
it. There are many who do not consider him the best point guard of all
time...but a pretty elite group do. That group includes but is not limited to
(in order of importance of course) Me, Magic Johnson, Charles Barkley, and Bill
Walton. Ironically none of these guys are great communicators but they are all
(especially Me) pretty knowledgeable in regards to basketball. And by the
way...Stockton graduated. Not entirely sure why I said that but it is important
that we don't equate Stockton and some of these lesser individuals. MacMahon
and Detmer combined didn't have the consistency and staying power of Stockton.
In fact he played on while all of their careers (Young's too) came and went.
Don't mess with my basketball man!!!
The guy is not a better player than McMahon. The poster who said that McMahon
would be on the field and Detmer would be on the bench, if they were playing in
the same era is correct. John Stockton holds alot of records but many still
don't consider him the all time best point guard in the NBA. If it wasn't for
McMahon there would be no Detmer at BYU.
Maybe the University of Utah should put him in their Hall, and teach that school
down south the act of forgiveness?
Being a Laker & BYU fan, thanks for the information about Shaquille O'Neal.
Shaq is a much bigger name in sports than Jim McMahon! I'm glad to know that it
was not "beyond" him to go back and finish in order to get inducted into LSU
Hall of Fame. Why can't Jim?BYU is totally right on this! I
support them in their decision. If Jim wants to be in BYU Hall of Fame then
finish the degree. It was very clear in the one article that BYU is willing to
work with him on this if he wants to do it!
I agree the Heisman is political, I never gave that as a reason for Ty
greatness, although he should have won both his junior and senior year.Your own reasons, "nobody did more with the offense, nobody held so many
passing and total yard records as McMahon", well thats my point, nobody did and
Detmer broke them all. Detmer holds pratically every single BYU passing and
total yardage record by a large margin.The opposing defense applauds
him? Of course their not going to applaud Detmer, he just handed them thier
lunch all afternoon.And your comparison to Terrell Davis? I didn't
care for Davis at all. But if the Denver scheme is so awesome, tell me how many
RBs before and after TD rushed for 2000 yds? Zero, so maybe TD was pretty good
in his own right.So if it is the system, McMahon played in the same
system, thus McMahon would be a product of the system as well.Our
memories may waver and believe what we want to believe, but the results never
change. And as time goes on and people look back, the records will all point to
Come on Now is right. McMahon was by far the better player not only as a QB but
he also was a very capable punter. Detmer was a product of a perfected BYU
offense just like Terrill Davis was a product of the Denver Bronco offensive
scheme. McMahon made more happen with the BYU offense. Nobody has ever held so
many passing and total than McMahon did when he finished at BYU. Detmer didn't
have that many. What did Detmer do after he left that offense? On field
perfomance....Detmer??? When did Detmer ever have an opposing defense applaud
him after a game? Heisman trophy are as political as the BCS. Detmer's win
made up for McMahon and Young getting stiffed. I can't believe that some of my
fellow BYU fans fail to remember McMahon's greatness. Maybe I don't want
McMahon in the BYU Hall of Fame...the fans don's deserve him.
re: come on NowI could give you that McMahon was better if Ty would
have barely broken his records. But it wasn't even close, Ty set the bar so
high, that adding McMahon's best season to his totals would not even come close
to Ty's marks.Maybe McMahon was physically better gifted, but "on
the field" performance belongs to TY.
In your opinion.Records are meant to be broken and they were broken
by Ty. And they were not the padded stats like Houston's Klinger and Hawaii two
QBs. They were against top notch teams like the Penn St and Miami etc.Were talking college QBs, if you want to add the NFL, then clearly Young would
be heads and shoulders over the others. But in college, it was Detmer.
RE: StudentAthlete | 11:55 p.m. Oct. 22, 2008 Give me a break if
Detmer and McMahon would've been at BYU Ty would have been riding the pine.
Records are meant to be broken but McMahon was by far a better player and
QB...Heisman or not. What did Detmer do in the NFL except watch a lot of game
film? BYU was didn't get enough respect back in the late 70's and early 80's in
the Heisman voting.
I am an avid BYU COUGAR football fan and agree that Jim McMahon was one of the
greatest college quarterback ever! However, Jim ...grow up, will ya?! Why all
the bitterness? What example as a husband and father are you still setting for
your family? Not a very good one. You are an adult so start acting like one
and take responsibilities for your actions. Believe me, BYU fans from all over
the world would love to see you in BYU's Hall of Fame. Stop acting like Uncle
Rico from Napleon Dynamite! Just do it and graduate!
The thing I find interesting is that he was tolerated as long as he had
something they (BYU) wanted. As soon as he was of no more value to them, they
dumped him. If he was so bad, why didn't they allow him to go to school elswhere
while he had some eligablility? Were they so hungry for a win? Who knows what
would have happened and where he would have ended up if they had turned him
loose sooner. Maybe that's what they were afraid of.
To the losers who claim McMahon a horrible example...grow up dude! Golden
Richards is in the HOF...all Jim ever did was drink a couple of beers and set
the College football world on its collective ear....Jim should have won the
Heisman over Marcus Allen, but NY couldn't bring itself to honoring a school as
obscure as BYU......He married a Stake Pres Daughter out of Calif who is drop
dead gorgeous and raised two boys and 2 girls, holds celebrity golf tourneys for
MS, visited the soldiers in Iraq, funnier than Leno....the guy is the BYU HOF!
Reachout to him.....where is the olive branch....Jim is a great guy!
interesting that Jim doesn't seem to have a problem with this. BYU doesn't seem
to have a problem with this. Why should we.. way too much time spent on
Few athletes could be considered a more deserving candidate for inclusion in a
university athletic hall of fame than Shaquille O'Neal. He was a two time
All-American at LSU, a two-time SEC player of the year, and he received the
Adolph Rupp Trophy as NCAA men's basketball player of the year in 1991. He was
also the NBA Rookie of the Year and an Olympic gold medalist. And yet, for years
Shaquille O'Neal was kept out of the LSU Athletic Hall of Fame. Why? Because he
had not graduated, and LSU would not change their hall-of-fame standards, which
required a college degree, even for Shaq.But O'Neal returned to
school, and in 2000 finished the requirements for a bachelor's degree. He was
inducted into the LSU Athletic Hall of Fame later that same year. BYU is not alone is understanding that being a hall-of-fame caliber
student-athlete requires more than athletic achievements; it also requires
completing what a student goes to college to attain: a degree.
As a former student athlete, they are called student athletes, and thus have to
excel both to be honored.And I think it is comical all the post
declaring McManon as the best BYU QB when Detmer owns all the records.
I enjoyed watching Jim Mcmahon play against Utah. If BYU can't put him in their
Hall of Fame maybe Utah can claim him in its Hall of Fame for the amount of
yards and touchdowns he threw against us.
You have to be kidding. To bend the rules for a guy who broke his word and then
mocked his alma mater? The guy has no class, fewer morals, and is a horrible
example to our younger generations.He made a promise to follow the
code and broke it. Thank goodness there is still BYU that will put standards
above the game and morals above athletic achievement. If you don't
stand for something, you'll fall for anything.Hold the line Cougars!
There have been two BYU players I enjoyed watching in college and beyond--one
was Steve Young and the other was Jim McMahon. It is a shame that McMahon is
being kept out the BYU Hall of Fame. It is going to be wound that will never
heal unless BYU steps up and reviews the situation again. There was one BYU
Hall of Fame member who was arrested on DUI charges. Does BYU revoke a member
if the standards faulter after induction?
Funny two non-members and catholics at that, Jim and Clay put BYU on the map. Is
there that much bitterness at BYU and th LDS culture that you would not let him
in. A little sad but you do what you need to do and obviously the Lord will
judge you for your convictions. He was a great player folks and should be judged
for that and nothing else.
To compare Jim to OJ well thats a pretty big stretch. He did us good and proud.
Let the man in. Goodness where were you people when he brought the program to
prominence. I'd like to hear Coach Edwards true feelings on this situation.
How many LDS member are in the Notre Dame hall of fame? Jim just does not
deserve it either! We have a little something called standards at BYU and within
the Church. Jim has not lived up to those and therefore should not even be given
a thought. He had his chances here to choose a better path but dismissed it and
look at where he is now.
You prove once again that there really are no Yewt fans, only BYU haters. Thanks
for confirming that for us.
to "Silly Comments" at 108pm who said: "Sorry U fans, more people care about Y
football than any other team in the state."More people buy
CD's by the likes of Britney Spears, T.I., and 50 Cent than any other artists in
the county. That doesn't make them any good.More people watch
American Idol than any other show, but it's still a load of crap.Just expressing the obvious.
Do you have to be a mormon or better yet a mormon in good standing to be in the
hall? Geezers people get a grip, the guy helped get us on the map! He should be
in despite his short commings. I thing this is even rediculious discussing the
obvious. Shame on BYU for not letting him in and if they did I would not be
suprised for him standing them up at the ceremony. Disrespect at the upmost but
this is the culture in provo and with the church.
We have standards and Jim does not. We as LDS stick to those standards and I for
one believe he should have never been allowed to be recruited. My vote is NO!!
That a sad reason to be a ute fan, just because Jim McMahon is not in the hall.
Give it time and he will be in the hall and then you can repent and come back to
the cougar faithful.Go Cougars! Maul the utes!
How can they let someone in that does not fit the criteria?I am a
huge BYU fan, a huge McMahon fan, I know Jeff Holland is a huge McMahon fan, I
know that 99% of BYU fans are HUGE McMahon fans, but that does not make him
eligible for the BYU Hall of Fame.So BYU inducts STUDENT-athletes?
What's the big deal?McMahon will always be Huge in my book.McMahon knows what to do to get there. If he cares, he will.
Wasn't he also famous for mooning someone while with the Bears. I realize that
was while he was in the pros, but it sure embarrassed alot of us BYU Grads.
Jim but I take off my hat to BYU for sticking to their rules...
The Hall of Some Very Good Players.
I dislike BYU as much as the next guy...probably more than most...but it is
their hall of fame...so they make the rules. Simple concept but rarely
understood these days. Everyone wants others to change to meet their
demands...MacMahon got his career from going to quarterback U just as much as
BYU benefitted from him! If he hadn' known that he would have gone to a
different school...he was recruited!
Nobody's perfect, and I include the general authorities -- every single one of
them. Yet we all must live by rules to achieve certain things. Still, I think
the graduation requirement for BYU Hall of Game inductees should be changed.
Maybe the requirement should be that the inductee took a full academic load for
at least six semesters.
Why should non-BYU-fans even care who BYU includes in BYU's Hall of Fame?The only fans who should have any say in the matter are BYU fans.All others can keep their "self-righteous" criticism to themselves.
Lets see play good, dis the institution,get dad to dis the institution,get DN to
dis the institution, agree to rules disregard the rules,sounds like what JM has
done all his life. Hall of fame is multi faceted it is for those we hold in high
esteem for the service they chose to give to the institution. I guarantee if you
asked JM if BYU helped his career he would say no. But if it wasn't for BYU JM
would be washing trays and flipping hamburgers as a non graduate. If BYU will
help him meet the minimum criteria then he should accept that graciously.This man flouted authority and but the great help that Coach Edwards went out
on ledges for all the time for him. He wouldn't be where he is today.I am glad it is not up to me if it were he would never get the award. The hall
of fame is so much more than just being a good athlete. I to am a
BYU graduate and am proud that I signed and lived by the Honor Code. I had a
choice so did JM. I wish good luck to JM
Jimbo's most famous quote is: "The best part about BYU was leaving it." He has
other classic BYU zingers, as well.Jimbo has flaunted that fact that
he routinely violated BYU's Honor Code while attending BYU. He brags about it.
He flaunts it. I drank, I smoked, I ... You got the idea.The
principle behind the Honor Code is that each person who attends the Y signs his
name and agrees to live on his honor, that is, he agrees to live by the Honor
Code.I don't think that a person who brags about violating the Honor
Code has earned a place in BYU's Football Hall of Fame. Perhaps the Hall of
what would Jesus do?
Hey silly comments,Enough of the self-righteous talk about BYU. This is
exactly why so many people HATE BYU. How can you assume that more people care
about BYU football than any other team? Are you saying more people care about
BYU football than the Utah Jazz? I personally care about High School football
teams more than I do many of the college teams. Get over yourself, BYU!!! Now I
have stated the obvious.
Having Known and played with Jim, I believe he belongs in the hall. If BYU
Doesn't like his off the field standards they should have never recuited him in
the first place. Not everyone that goes to BYU is a Chior Boy. Let him in the
hall for his on field play. Jim is a decent human being. Just because he
doesn't live all of the BYU standards doesn't mean he isn't a good man. God
will forgive who he will forgive, but we are required to forgive all men. Judge
not...ect. ect. ect. It's time for we latter-day saints to take a look at our
selves first, and then Let Jim In The Hall Of Fame!!!
I don't care what the arguement is? But Jim McMahon was the greatest football
player to wear a football uniform in Utah! An arguement can actually be made
that he may have been the greatest college player to have ever played the game!
HOF or not, perhaps Jim is bigger than the HOF at BYU! To keep him out only
deminishes the mission of such an honor for everyone else who has been fit to be
inducted. I mean how would it feel to be a Hall of Fame inductee to the
University of North Carolina Tar Heels, if the University refused to induct
Michael Jordan? Say what you want about Jim off the field, but on it, he
represented BYU with integrity and honor, and honorable of any HOF!
If Jimbo needs three classes to graduate he should hit the books and get it
done. He could probaly take the classes else where and transfer the units back
to the Y. You only need a "C-" average Jim...do it for your kids if not for
yourself. I believe Jim is a great QB and person, and I believe he'll do it
when he is ready.
Mr Negative (Rock) needs to find a good anti-anxiety med to help him sleep at
night. And Jimbos daddy needs to realize his spoiled, arrogant,
never-give-back-to-the-world-because-they-owe-me son CAN be in the hall of fame.
But that would require Jimbo to actually do some honest academic work. Such a
giving, kind, philanthropic man of integrity like Jimbo should relish making
good after all his bad-mouthing, back-stabbing, ungrateful comments FOR NEARLY 3
DECADES about BYU. Maybe Rock and Jimbos daddy can have a good pity party over
all this. Waah!!!
to rf: did you get up on the wrong side of the bed today? If there hadn't been
the final touchdown, there wouldn't have been an extra point. Jim gets most of
I wish the paper would interview Jim and see if he cares or not. Why
has the paper not interviewed JM ?If he says no way I don't want to
be in BYU's HOF it takes care of it, if McMahon says I would appreciate it then
a door opens, maybe both are waiting to see if the other wants to make peace. If
he does want in help him out to take the 9 credits online and move on. Call
him, I am sure you can find the number.
BYU is its own worst enemy. It has never understood that to get respect you
have to do more than simply take a stand; you have to take a stand that is fair
and makes sense. Keeping Jimbo out of its HOF, just like yanking Chad Hardy's
diploma, makes BYU appear petty and out of touch, not principled.
Jim McMahon was a great QB. Noting allowing him in the hall of fame is a joke.
He put BYU on the map nationally (in a good way) and deserves to be recognized
as the second best QB BYU ever had (next to Steve Young).
1. MANY universities require you to be a grad. Most of them did not have the
requirement in place at the inception of the University. 2. It's not the
NFL where you don't even have to finish high school. 3. McMahan takes
every opportunity to diss BYU. He could care less. 4. BYU has offered to
hold his spoiled, thankless, back-biting hand through the process of completing
his diploma. 5. Some athletes are givers. They give of themselves, their
time, their talents to serving those around them. Jim McMahan is a taker. Always
has been. Always will be.
McMahon doesn't deserve special treatment. He's been getting that all his life.
Holmoe has extended the olive branch. All McMahon needs to do is reach out and
accept it. He needs to complete the nine units and graduate--like Steve Young
and every other hall of fame member.
BYU is a great university. Jim McMahon is a great quarterback. Both mutually
benefited from the relationship at the time. Both now want the relationship to
be over. Let it be.
Press: "Mr. McMahon, what did you like best about BYU?"McMahon:
"Leaving."Jim McMahon is loving the attention, otherwise he couldn't
care less about being inducted into the BYU Hall of Fame.
McMahon doesn't deserve special treatment. Holmoe has extended the olive
branch. McMahon needs to finish his nine units and graduate--like every other
pereson in the hall of fame.
Jim was great. Let him donate $2M to the school and they will give him a
honorary degree and then place him in the hall. Call it tithing if you want.It sounds more like his father wants it more than Jim does anyway.Keep the rules as they are.
The fact that we are talking about athletes like Simpson, Bonds, Cobb and other
bottom of the barrel types to justify McMahon getting into the HOF explains
BYU's position clear enough for me.
RE: Why If McMahon "flaunted" the honor code why didn't the school
punish him until after football season? He never pretended to be a saint. I
graduated from BYU and wasn't impressed with the "honor" code. How honorable is
it to tattle on friends and others? That's what you're expected to do. Maybe
just maybe he's not the only football player at BYU to ever break the honor
code. For his fathers sake I'd like the university to forgive past sins (he
actually may have had a beer or two!!!) and let him see his son enter the BYU
Hall of Fame. (immediate exaltation promised to all that enter)
Jim is like an investment whose value will NOT deminish. Some of you ask, what
has he given to BYU before and since? The fact is he has given BYU notoriety&
prestige that will never cease, as long as college football exists at BYU. His
contributions are still evident and are primary in maintaining validity to BYU's
football program, even through the Crowton years. The rest of the nation doesn't
look at BYU football for it's honor code. The rest of the nation respects BYU
football, partly due to McMahon's contributions, and as a result our values and
honor code are demonstrated from a more practical and less preachy standpoint.
The players and we as fans are watched and observed and we display what we
believe. This publicity is sooooo valuable in establishing who we are as LDS
members & BYU. People recognize Jim for what he is. His offerings to BYU,
naturally, put him in a very elite group. His excellence needs to be
acknowledged. Maybe split the HOF into two groups, athletic excellence and
academic. Don't bunch them together as if they must always be akin. Otherwise,
we should ask why pencil-neck Earnie the scientist isn't in there.
I love how Rock says he is widely believed to have done steroids, and then later
says that he is sure Bonds cheated. How is he so sure... don't get me wrong, I
think he probably did too, but to say I'm sure. I don't think I could do that.
Ute fan stop your lecturing and self righteous appointment of judge over the Y.
Go worry about your own school which has PLENTY of problems itself.
Who in the world care about BYU Hall of Fame, or for that matter any Hall of
Fame. Jim McMahon was no big deal, yes he played well but so what. BYU can
put anyone they like in THERE HALL Of FAME.All this stuff about Sports is
Bull, spent your time with the important things of life. Football is not LIFE.
Every institution has a right to establish its own requirements. And having a
graduation requirement only makes sense for STUDENT ATHLETES. Is it the best
rule, maybe not, is a good rule, hello of course. It's at lease worthy of
consideration. At least there is one university in the land that has a backbone.
To cave in to public pressure without discussion or considerion of the integrity
of the institution lacks integrity. Hey AD eventually got his number in the
rafters, McMahon will eventually get in too and he will be welcomed with open
Sorry U fans, more people care about Y football than any other team in the
state. Guess I had to state the obvious
Brad Rock's reasoning is intellectually dishonest. Barry Bonds cheated and
McMahon didn't? In what universe is deliberately and repeatedly violating the
Honor Code that he promised to uphold not cheating? McMahon helped the status
of BYU football, but he had nothing but contempt for the university. He helped
the football program for his own purposes (to enhance his standing with NFL
scouts), not because he felt any allegiance to the school. Playing hard to win
helps him the most.It was hypocritical to keep him in school as long
as BYU did, I agree. But admitting him to the Hall of Fame, regardless of
whether he graduates (and by the way, he was at BYU five years with all expenses
paid for--plenty of time to become a legitimate student), would only compound
the hypocrisy. He was a great football player, and he got the reward he
wanted--fame and fortune in the NFL. He said, referring to BYU, "I couldn't get
away from that place fast enough." This is why he doesn't care about BYU's
HoF--he himself thinks it would be hypocritical for BYU to induct him, and
hypocritical for him to accept it. He was, however, BYU's best-ever
Re jim McMahon Rule:You use the word Fact, were did you get your
facts, your brothers friends cousins friend who went to the Y?
It's as predictable as Dick Homer Harmon always writing a BYU
article........when the Cougars flounder, then let's bring out anything about
former Cougar players that we can think of.....
BYU needs more people like "Mad Mac." This would be a refreshing change to
BYU's self righteous attitude. The new Mac and Collie could be roommates. That
would make for an interesting reality show.
too many of the people who place the Cougars players on a pedastal have no idea
what many of the players actually do. I won't mention details but my best
friend was a recruit and played there in the late 80's and there were things
done on the recruiting trips that were as aggregious as anything Jim McMahon
did. He's the only one who apparently didn't care about getting caught, but
definitely not the only one who has violated the code, including some who are in
the vaunted Cougar Hall of Fame. Please stop with your self righteous comments,
it makes you look very bad.
Interesting what place sports has come to play in our lives. It used to be that
a "good sport" included good character now it is all about wins and records.
Sometimes I will not say that I am a fan because that definition includes
behavior that is unbecoming to humanity. What should we use to
measure and honor men and women - even for a student athlete I would hope our
least consideration of what we give honor to be based solely on their physical
accomplishments. One thing I like about BYU is that it expects both its
students and fans at the game to behave honorably. Yes, I know, it is that
hated holier than thou attitude that comes from those that would disrespect
anything of honor.
The past couple of years (since Bronco showed up) the team has established a
very strong positive impact off the field. This is in line with BYU's mission.
Jim McMahon did not project these core values off the field and therefore should
not be in the hall of fame.
I don't care how many beers he drank, or rounds of shirtless golf, the number of
times he flipped the bird to "Yewt Fans, or even if he passed one class at BYU?
But I do KNOW that when he played football at BYU, he played better than anyone
past or present ever has! You can keep him out of your HOF, but we all know
that if we were talking Steve, Giff or even Ty, you would be inducting them
without a degree! The rules run contrary to the standards you try to uphold!
Eliminate the JIM McMAHON RULE and do the right thing! Do it for Us his greatest
and your greatest fans, and pay tribute to the greatest football player ever to
wear a BYU uniform, Jim McMahon!
Why does Jim McMahon care about being in the BYU Hall of Fame? He hated BYU
while he was there, and I'd think that the important Hall of Fame would be the
College Football Hall of Fame (which he's got). My uninformed guess is that he
wants it because he currently can't have it.
Several have mentioned that BYU expelled McMahon because they didn't need him
anymore. Isn't it more likely that he, after using his eligibility, decided to
flaunt the Honor Code more than he ever did before. After all, he knew he was a
celebrity and was surely going to play in the NFL anyway. He no longer needed
BYU so why continue going to a school whose rules he really didn't like in the
first place? Plus...his rebel attitude was very appealing to the media...and he
got plenty of media attention for his comments about BYU.I would be
very disappointed if BYU made an exception to it's rules to allow him into the
byu is a joke and does a good job to embarrass the state of utah at all
timeskeep up the good work.i wonder if the roy, utah
native's superbowl win didn't impress byu either.i guarrantee if
mcmahon was on the team this season they wouldn't be finishing 3rd in the Mtn
Fact: There are those in the hall that did not graduateFact: The
graduation rule olny came about after JM was done playing. When I say after I
mean directly after.It is known as the Jim McMahon rule! BYU let go of
He should be in the hall. But who cares about BYU's Hall anyway? He is in the
College Hall of Fame and that is obv. superior to just a single school.
Where is the BYU Hall Of Fame anyway? Is it really that big of a deal? Jim
McMahon didn't graduate and BYU doesn't give a flying hoot who he is/was.......
you don't graduate, you don't get in. If you have a problem then either
graduate (doesn't he only need 9 more credits?) or forget about it cause it
doesn't make much of a difference for BYU.This really isn't a big deal.
I served in the Bay Area and ate at his In-Laws every Sunday. The way they
talked about Jim was awesome. It was fun to see them sit at the table and say,
"How did Jim do today" and then talk about it. I talked to them a little about
him, and they said he was the best father and husband they could ever want for
their daughter. Come on BYU, put him in! I know the criteria, and his past
antics, but he deserves it! I've been going to BYU games for about 30 years.
I'll be happy when it's a done deal.
I remember listening to a Paul Harvey radio commentary titled "What's a guy got
to do". He listed an amazing series of passing records and then asked why this
guy was not in Heisman trophy competition. That guy was Jim McMahon.I watched Jim McMahon play at BYU. I was in the stadium for the miracle
comeback in San Diego. Yes, Jim was a bad boy by BYU standards. I have heard a
number of stories of his antics and near arrests. But, he was a terrific
quarterback and a fierce competitor. I watched an interview on a
talk show where the host was trying to get him to badmouth BYU and he wouldn't.
All he said was that it was a great football school.I support BYU
and its standards. This is not a standards issue. No one has violated standards
by not graduating.Jim deserves to be in BYU's Hall of fame
graduation or not - so do Mo and Jason. The graduation requirement should be
quietly removed. It has nothing to do with football. Academic achievment should
be rewarded separatly.
I agree with 19...Sounds like BYU overlooked all the honor code violations while
JM played there and then as soon as the season was over...OUT YOU GO. It just
seems at that point football was more important than maintaining standards. It
just smells like a double standard to me. I agree that he shouldn't be in the
HOF if he doesn't meet the criteria, but should he have really played at BYU in
the first place?
It's only 9 or so credits, and if he really were interested in pleasing his
father and getting into the hall, I would think he would make the effort. I love the guy and think he was the best BYU QB ever, but this is the
university's HofF. Sport's are the secondary reason for attending school.
Education is the first.
IS BYU in the vast minority in requiring school graduation in order to make its
HOF? Jimmy Mac's dad's letter alluded to that - anyone know if its true?
How about this contrarian view I think BYU wants McMahon in the HOF much more
than he wants to be there.BYU will gladly turn a blind eye to
McMahons off the field antics and celebrate with relish an opportunity to induct
him into the BYU HOF, if hell pick up the needed credits to graduate. He could
do it sleepwalking if he wanted to. HOWEVER, I think this is just
one more way for Mad Mac to give BYU a raspberry.
There is no doubt that Mac is the best and that he does belong in but, Mac is
Mac and until he can swallow his pride it won't happen. All I can say is that
if my own father were still alive I'd give up a little of my pride in order to
finish a few things I started that my father tried to get me to
finish..........just hope that when the time comes, which it will, that Mac can
live with his choices.Cherish your father Mac...while you've still got
as long as he was winning games for you. honor code! Please!
Just graduate . . . then he meets the requirements, and THEN he has a case.
Until then, he is not in.
McMahon talks about the fact that he a Chicago Bear first and foremost. He is
forgetting the only reason he was a Bear is BYU. What other school would have
given him the stage to do what he did. There were not a lot of throwing schools
in his day and BYU gave him that opportunity. Would he have starred at another
school? Maybe. And maybe he would have ridden the bench. Jim, get your degree
and Rock, leave it alone.
Easy. BYU gives him an honorary degree and then he can be voted into the HOF.
Everybody wins and Mr. Rock can sleep at night.
I think McMahon was the best qb at BYU, and Steve Young was the best NFL qb from
BYU.IMO it makes sense for McMahon to be in the BYU hall of fame...
But when has BYU been about making sense?
To Jim and S Gawrys: you said it right. Since when is a rule not a rule. JM
agreed to attend BYU and was given the same info that all other athletes are. He
agreed on paper but had no intention to agree in person. Good quarterback, yes.
Honorable student, no. BYU should have expelled him sooner only they gave him
every chance to succeed both athletically and academically. JM chose to do what
he did. Pride and pecularity don't mix. He made the "important" Hall of Fame.
BYU stick to your standards!
Come on "Puke fan in MS", if Jim McMahon not being in the Cougar Hall of Fame is
one of the many reasons your a Puke Fan, then I can only imagine the other
pathetic reasons you are the "Puke fan from MS". Listen, Jim has one option
GRADUATE! But since he is to prideful and lazy that might never happen... Does
he deserve to be in there because of the great career he had at BYU -YES- but
there are certain requirements that a school with academic integrety must
inforce and I respect BYU for that.
Why would you honor anyone who flaunted BYU's honor code and is not worthy of
any honor? If you think so, you don't know what he got away with. It was not
as Rock said "an action after he used up his playing time at BYU. His flagrant
acts finally caught up with him.Rock loves to look at all subjects
McMahon was definitely the best ever BYU quarterback and it is a shame that he
is not in the BYU Hall of Fame. It is also a shame that BYU waited until after
his last game to suspend him. What a lack of integrity on the part of the
university (and I am a BYU grad who attended when McMahon did). They used him up
and then booted him out. However, all Jim needs to do is enroll at virtually any
college and transfer the credits to BYU (Is it six credits he needs?) He can
then graduate and be admitted to the Hall. If Jim is unwilling to do so little
to get this done, then it must not mean much to him. Of course, since it means a
lot to his dad, he ought to do it for that reason alone.
It looks like both parties involved have major pride issues. BYU could extend a
palm leaf towards JM and I think he'd come running given the proper invitation
(similar to Adrian Dantley). JM could/should do his part too but neither party
is being the bigger person. Perhaps the institution with its so called standards
should be the bigger party, step up, forgive, and accept...that would show the
higher law and standards in action. I think JM would reciprocate as well.
"Bonds doesn't belong in baseball's hall because he cheated to set his records,
and McMahon belongs in BYU's because he didn't."Rock, as always SPOT
This reminds me of the same thing that Larry Miller and the Utah Jazz did to
Adrian Dantley. Both McMahon and Dantley should have been in their respective
halls of fame. Jim was a great Football player, maybe not the best role model
at BYU but a BYU hall of famer non the less. Put him in and maybe his attitude
toward BYU will change, either why this is one long time Cougar fan that thinks
he earned it on the field!!!
I'm tried of people wanting to down grade requirements to get an award. If Jim
wants to come back and graduate, I am all for letting him in. If he can't change
his lifestyle to be admitted, then keep him out. A requirement is a requirement.
Why don't we drop the requirement of actually being good in the sport???
It just so happens, I just went to the International Boxing Hall of Fame in
Canastota, NY. I asked about Mike Tyson. He has not been inducted yet merely
because he fought a few years ago. No fighter can enter the Hall of Fame until 5
years have passed without fighting.
I love McMahon, but, remember, BYU was as good to him as he was for BYU. He will
be in the Hall, if he complies with the rules.Jim has stated for 27
years now that he will not get his degree from BYU. It's very simple, take 2
classes and you will be in. In spite of all the nasty remarks he has made about
BYU over the years. Stop whining and get your degree, you too
Buck!BYU promoted Jim for the College Hall of Fame, if he were playing
today, Jim would not qualify for that Hall either. They also now have a
graduation requirement, which Jim avoided by a year or so.Jim's
stubborness defies logic, take classes on-line and be done with it. This is the
same obstinance which made Jim great, and it's also the reason he had a short
career and did not follow Steve YOung into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He
defied coaches in the the Pros and beat his his body to a pulp. Just
stop being the contrarian. It's there for the taking, do your part!ajarizona
Brad Rock could found the "Please Jim Please" foundation. I personally would
contribute the cost of one of the remaining 9 hours Jim needs to graduate.
"Please Jim Please"
Brad, you seem a little arogant telling BYU what to do.The BYU Hall
of Fame does mean more than the College Hall of Fame. It requires standards
above a player's athletic accomplishments. At BYU the skill of the
player has never been paramount. Colt McCoy would not be allowed to play at BYU
if he did not promise to live the honor code. Doesn't matter how good he is. I really couldn't care less if he's in or out. But you are you to tell
the university what to do?
i would like to see jim not to have the right to bve there because of his
atitudes he has a very bad problem
BYU oould humble themselves and put him in. Jim could humble himself and take
the necessary classes on line and graduate. Too much pride all around.
RE: Anonymous 5:51 a.m."BYU is a peculiar insitution." I'm sure you
also thing we're "peculiar people." Great, we're a bunch of weirdos and BYU is
full of nerds. McMahon brought more positive attention to BYU and the LDS
church than a thousand missionaries could do. (as did Steve Young) Can't we
just recognize him for the great things he did for BYU while playing football.
I find it "peculiar" that BYU won't recognize one of the greatest athletes to
ever play for the school.
I am a fan of Jim being recognized for his accomplishments by BYU and being
inducted into the Hall of Fame; however, the graduation rule has been in place
prior to McMahon taking the field and should continue to apply. Jim McMahon
should do what he needs to do to graduate and the Honor is his. BYU should not
change the rule.
... what's he given back to BYU since he left? And what beyond sports did he
contribute to BYU while he was here?While I agree he was one of the
best BYU QBs ever, I can understand the institutional reluctance to honor him.
He gave us some wonderful sports memories, then trashed BYU on his way out the
door. It was pretty clear he wasn't supporting BYU's standards or ethics while
he was here. I ask again--what's he given to BYU, then and since,
*besides* sports memories? Fair question.
Few will know of the lows that McMahan stooped to while at Cougerville. In the
end though, he was just a guy that took up a couple of valuable years that Steve
Young or another QB could have been playing--they, like McMahan would have had
records too. He wasn't a difference maker at BYU, the difference was already
Oh Brad, what sycophantic falderall. This is NOT the football Hall of Fame...
Mac would be a shoe in. It is the College Football Hall of Fame for graduates of
BYU. It is to showcase college-athletes. Mac only half qualifies. He qualifies
on the football or athletic side but not on the college academic side.It begs the question: if McMahon had focused on studies would he have been as
good on the field? We'll never know, but, BYU can give him a Mulligan if he
simply goes on line, takes the few classes he needs and he can enter through an
elongated and pampered hallway into the Hall.He's a jerk, so, he
Jim McMahon's greatest attribute was his never say die attitude; it was his
example and determination that made the Miracle Bowl possible. Many other
players contributed, but it was Jim's leadership that created the spark that led
to one of the most memorable events in BYU sports history.It's that
same attitude that's keeping Jim out of the BYU Hall of Fame -- refusing to
lose. In a way, he's being just as stubborn about maintaining his "standards" as
BYU is.BYU doesn't need to lower it's standards, it just needs to
extend an olive branch to Jim; offer an apology, tell him they want him in their
Hall and work with him quietly, behind the scenes to make it happen.It's been almost 28 years; it's time to bury the hatchet.
You want the University to compromise and change the rules. This guy has spent
his whole life wanting the rules changed for him. All he has to do is get the 9
credit hours (compromise) and the pressure would then really be on the
University. It's a great rule because they are all STUDENT athletes. Just
because MONEY has changed the whole NCAA picture is no reason to change this
rule. I wish each one of them would get their Degree.
Kragthorpe, how can you say McMahon wasn't juiced? I am not saying he was, but
during that era of college football many players at top programs were juiced and
at the pro level as well. I trust that BYU was a program that policed itself
and didn't let steroids into the locker room, but I'd be surprised to learn that
BYU was 100% clean during that period. As for McMahon in the BYU
Sports Hall of Fame, it has different standards than the College Football HOF.
I think that is great although I wish those that produced on the field would
finish what they started and complete the last requirement and get that
If the Athletic Hall of Fame exists to recognize outstanding BYU athletes, then
McMahon deserves to be in the Hall. If the school wishes to recognize students
for their academic contributions, then set up another Hall of Fame. My wife and
I are BYU grads, so are two of our children and we have no problem seeing Jim in
the Hall of Fame. BYU certainly gets the recognition every time McMahon's name
is mentioned, so give him his due. It takes NOTHING away from BYU by giving him
the honor he deserves.
There's your title, Brad. For example, Jeffrey Dahmer is "famous" and performed
some "incredible" things so let's put him in some kind of hall of fame.Yeah, Dahmer is an extreme, but Jim McMahon was also extreme. Oh wait, not
that type of extreme. He was a GREAT player for BYU, probably one of the very
best, if not the best, so he belongs in the Hall of Great Players at BYU.Yet, I don't consider his exploits off the field, and his contempt for
the Honor code, recognizable as a standard of excellence at BYU. He was great in
his performances as an athlete. I commend him for that and so he should be
recognized. Am I comparing him to Dahmer, of course not. Is McMahon famous?
Without question.Easy way to get into the hall of fame. Graduate! So
he was conveniently booted from school after eligibility ended, shame on the
administration, but then again, maybe Jim made some choices then that forced the
administration to act.If honor and integrity aren't part of the
issue, then by all means, let's get Jim into the Hall. You have my vote, because
he was GREAT as a player.
That should do it. Everyone was just waiting for Brad Rock to opine on this and
now he has put the case for McMahon over the top. Nevermind that McMahon
himself hasn't asked to be honored by BYU or that he consistenly bad-mouthed BYU
during and after his experience there or that he dismissed, while there, most of
the standards he had agreed to live. I have an option. Let's create a new Hall
of Fame category to fit his situation (perhaps Hall of Fame for Great former BYU
athletes who hate BYU) and then wait for him to indicate an interest. Until
then, he just doesn't seem to fit the profile and the standard seems pretty
reasonable for a unique school like BYU. If you don't like the standard, well,
that's too bad. Life is difficult.
When I was younger I loved JM. He was the best. I still look back with fond
memories, but lets stop going after BYU over the Jm legacy. Jm was the kind of
dude that acts obnoxious and gets laughs at everyone else's expense. He was
funny though. I think BYU has paid the price for JM actions not the other way
around. Sure he helped the school win games and we all love to point out how he
was expelled following his final season, but perhaps it would have been unfair
to the coaching staff and players to boot him sooner. Additionally,
JM wants nothing to do with BYU. He never has. He is a Chicago Bear and he
wants to keep it that way. I never thought I would say this but BYU is not the
bad guy. JM is the bad guy on this issue. If Mac wants to get in the HOF then
he should make it right with BYU (publicly). But he won't.Just an
opinion from a BYU Alumni, a former BYU athlete, and a big JM fan.
BYU should change the requirements. It is a football hall of fame not an
academic hall of fame. There has never been a better leader than Jim McMahon at
BYU. Much of his antics are misconstrued and have become legend or urban myth.
Jim is a good guy who not only was a great player but still continues to support
LDS missionaries in his home from time to time. He needs to be in the hall of
fame at BYU... He is in mine.
BYU is a peculiar institution and should remain that way, even if its students
must conform to be accepted.
Mad Mac should have been in the BYU HOF years ago. This is one of many reasons
I'm a Ute Fan. Come on BYU get a clue, he was a great QB and one of the most
exciting players ever to play at the Y.
Great article and whether I believe that Mad Mac should be in the hall is
irrelavant. However I do take umbrage that he threw the winning touchdown.As I recall he threw the tying touchdown. The point after won the game. The
game would have ended in a tie if the kick would have been missed. I know
it's a little thing but gee whiz Rock get it right. After all you are a
reporter. Never mind I have watched over the years how ALL reporters change
what we see and hear. Have a great day.
He can be named to the hall of fame if he meets the requirements. He can
graduate. He's been offered help to do so. He doesn't want it, don't give it to
If we change the rules to allow McMahon in, and it means we also have to allow
Buck, I vote the rules stay as they are.
I agree -- good point
I love the Mad one. All time best college qb ever. Any one who disagrees never
saw McMahon play. But he himself has made it abundantly clear that he doesn't
care if BYU puts him in or not. He would only have to take 1 semester of BYU
independant study (no honor code required) to graduate, but he is admittedly
unwilling to do so. He was reported in last weeks D-news as asking his dad to
just let it go and move on because he himself already had.I don't
hear anyone at BYU denigrating Mac, his name is still all over the record books
and when people list the great ones, his is usually the first name spoken, ahead
of Young and Detmer.Plus you must remember, this is BYU. If you
think they are going to lower their standards and expectations in any way while
Bronco is on watch, you are dumber than Gary Crowton. Is it a shame
that two stubborn sides can't work out a compromise? Perhaps. But Mac is happy
and BYU is happy and neither one is likely to give in, so ya'll had better get
used to the status quo.