Deseret News | Reader comments: High school sports: Dad, mom must make sports fun

Reader comments
High school sports: Dad, mom must make sports fun

HS Football Coach | 8:41 a.m. Oct. 21, 2008

I think that one problem, in football specifically, is starting the kids too young. I really feel as a football coach and as a physical educator that 8 years-old is way too young to start contact football. Its kind of like baseball. You start kids out playing t-ball. You're asking little boys without any hormones to go out and be aggressive.
I think that up until 7th grade that's how it should work. I think that this would keep more kids involved, as well. Then, start full contact in the middle school/jr. high (another example of Utah's educational inadequacy), rather than in parent-run little leagues. This is how it works in Wisconsin and in Texas.

HS Football Coach | 8:42 a.m. Oct. 21, 2008

I meant to have them play flag football in elementary up until they reach 7th grade.

Thanks Amy | 8:59 a.m. Oct. 21, 2008

This is great article. Unfortunately, it only scratches the surface of what I think is one of the most important topics we should be concerned with in sports today. I have always been very competitive, and striking a balance between helping my kids get better and just letting them be kids has always been a difficult line to walk. There is some great food for thought, and I hope all of us parents take some time to contemplate how sports should fit into our kids lives.

Comments continue below

Amy- you're the best! | 9:05 a.m. Oct. 21, 2008

I agree that parents are the most important people in an athlete's life-but I believe a close second is coaches, teammates, and supporters. I also believe that one of the really important people in my daughter's Lindsie and Adrienne sport's careers was you-AMY. You have no idea the great influence you have on so many of these girls and their parents-especially on my daughters. You are absolutely the best!!!! Our family is so grateful to you for all the suppport you give to all the girls playing sports in Utah. Jay Nielsen

Football Coach | 9:47 a.m. Oct. 21, 2008

HS Football Coach: I could not agree more. I coach high school football and have seen a lot of good players choose not to play in middle school and then high school because of a bad experience in "accelerated" youth football. They did not so much have a bad experience with the game but with inadequate coaching and high expectations by parents. Flag football teaches skills that need to be learned before pads are put on. There is a reason high school, colleges and even pro football teams have pre-season camps wearing nothing but helmets.

Mike | 10:11 a.m. Oct. 21, 2008

Although it is important to have fun with sports, that is not the most important thing. When you work so hard, and it pays off and you win, it is a lot more fun, than if you had lost. Sports take time and commitment. When I ran XC I would run 8-10 miles a day for practice, up hills, sprints and in crazy weather. It takes effort and hard work that can feel like a job. It is when parents let their children give up because it has become too hard for them that causes problems. Keep your children in sports, let them work as hard as they can, and then let them feel the amazing feeling when they win, and all their hard work has paid off. We live in a society today that is so afraid of hurting people's feeling, taking away celebrations because it is "unsportsmanlike" and such. It is nonsense. Work hard, play hard, win and feel happy, or loose and work harder to win next time. That is the bottom line.

MOMS | 10:38 a.m. Oct. 21, 2008

How many are forced out by the relentlessness of super-league, all-star and competition teams whose coaches and sponsors eliminate all but the precocious?

Parent/ High School Coach | 10:58 a.m. Oct. 21, 2008

I have 2 sons that have and are playing college baseball. We always talked about the game afterwards but I also let them know if they won or lost, something they need to learn early. We also talked about what they did well and what they need to work on but always, and I mean always, they got their dinner. Parents put too much stock on winning and scholarships. Both mine got scholarships but we never put pressure on them to practice on their own. We made it fun so they were always asking when can we go and workout. When it becomes a job, the fun is gone and so is the incentive to become better. Quit living through your children. Just sit in the lounge chair and enjoy. If you have knowledge, then coach and pass it along to the kids. But keep your priorities in order!

Bald Coach reply to mike | 11:02 a.m. Oct. 21, 2008

Mike you are right in saying winning is more fun than losing. I also agree that there are alot of people that take away from teams or individuals celebrations because of political correctness. However as a XC runner what was your biggest opponent? The clock!! Winning is important but not as important as playing with dignity and striving to do ones best. Not all of us can be winners like Mike. Someone has to lose. It is ok to lose if you have done the best that you can. That is all I can expect of my athletes. Before you say that I probabyl coach at a program that doesn't have success I will say that I have been apart of coaching in 9 State Championships in the last 10 years. I understand both the thrill of winning with a team that did its best and the agony of losing. The teams that lost I will say gave it their all. They were able to walk off the court with their heads held high. The problem with sports today is that people don't accept that there is always someone better

Concerned | 11:03 a.m. Oct. 21, 2008

I usually put my name on here, but I don't want to get run out of town. I am concerned about the local football team. I see the same thing as the HS coaches have mentioned: kids losing interest and getting burned out. The team here in town (3A) has a fairly new coach. He is trying to build a program, and I applaud his efforts. But, I think in a lot of ways he shoots himself in the foot. Extremely long practices night in and night out have deterred several good athletes from going out for the team. Then, requiring the team to watch film on Saturday. In my opinion, these players have no time for anything other than football, including schoolwork. They are just teenagers, and I don't think they should be expected to sacrifice everything for the team.
Don't get me wrong, they need to work hard and devote themselves to the team, but I think this situation is a bit extreme. I think he has chased some of his best prospects away.

Comment | 11:25 a.m. Oct. 21, 2008

I agree w/ HS Football Coach. There are many college/pro coaches that don't let their sons play football until they're in middle school - for many reasons. It would be interesting to poll some long time college coaches and pro coaches to find out when their sons starting playing pad football. In regards to fun - once you're in high school it becomes your job. Everyone is competing for that starting spot - it's a life lesson. If you love football and enjoy football then your movitation takes over and it is fun. That movitation carries over to the classroom - no pass, no play. Football is motivation to do well in the classroom, or you don't play. I agree w/ the article in regards to youth sports - but when you're talking high school sports and above, it's a different story.

Curious | 11:28 a.m. Oct. 21, 2008

Great article but why didn't it run on Monday in its usual spot? Almost missed it.

HS Official | 12:30 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

Amy- You hit this one head on! Kudos to Judge for instituting their program! Please push this program throughout the rest of the high schools and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get it instituted in Little League!!! If the parent does not attend the clinic, their kid cannot play! It would be in the best interest of the kids.

There should also be a similar program required for the entire coaching staff of high schools! Too often, you see HS coaches that push single sport athletes, and dominate a kid's life. There are some GREAT HS staffs out there, but in general it would be a great mandatory program for the entire staffs. UHSAA, don't allow the head coach to skip out on it like the rules clinic... where they can assign an assistant to attend to avoid their $50 fine, and then are not on top of the new points of emphasis, rule changes at the HS level, etc.

I credit much of my success in business and in life to the lessons I learned from some great coaches and the various sports I played growing up. I both won & lost state titles. I learned much from both.

volleyball coach | 1:23 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

I have read two of the PCA's books (Double Goal Coach and Positive Coaching) and we have use stories and ideas with our girls. there are some great practices and we seem to be winning, hey what the heck, keep using it.

JM Alum | 1:50 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

To Concerned:
I attended the seminar at Judge and it was very well done and quite an eye opener.
You may want to consider contacting the A.D. at Judge Memorial, Dan DelPorto. I'm certain he would be happy to provide you with any information you might need to help put you in contact with Mr. Thomas at PCL and help your program refocus it's priorities.
Best of luck to you and your school.

re: Mike | 2:51 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

I agree that winning is more fun than losing. But, no one wins all the time. So, if you are not going to win all the time you might as well have fun playing and competing. As good a runner as I am sure you are, I am also sure there are people that can beat you no matter how hard you work. Does that mean you should quit because you lose? I would say it means you should continue competing for more than just winning, because as I said you don't win all the time and there is always someone better.

Media | 2:52 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

Along with the coaches, and parents the media plays a role. The titles of the high school football articles state: such and such high school team: "lashed", "whipped", "dominated"...great for the team that won...not so much for the team that lost.
I have read the comments on the recent football articles that make statements about wanting the other team to hurt or "pound" the opposing team. I have read statments about the teams in the Region 7 football stating: Provo High Players are "cowards", the coach is a "joke". The player on the Payson team have: "No Talent". Mt. View "will be luck to win." Timpview will "run over" or "pound" any other team in the state. Timpview, Timpview, Timpview....
Maybe the Media should focus on so much on rankings, recuitment, and focus more on positive aspects of the team, and the individual players.

Mike to Bald Coach | 3:52 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

Thank you for your input. I agree with you, not everyone can win. What I really wanted to get across was how frustrating it is that sometimes, when people or teams have lost, everyone always says it's ok, it doesn't matter. It does matter, athletes put in a lot of time and work, and it does matter to win, but as long as you know you gave it all you had and leave it on the field/court/pool/track/whatever then a loss can be ok. Last year I was watching my little brother in a wrestling tournament, and at the end of the match, even tho he had won, they raised both kids hands. How does that teach a child anything? It is saying, you can not do as well as someone else, but you will get the same result. Life doesn't work that way. But again, I say thank you to Bald Coach, I agree winning isn't everything, but it is what every athlete strives for.

Mike | 4:06 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

My point is proven exactly with the post by Media. Whoever it is wants "positive" talk. They don't want people to feel bad. Hello, it is sports. Just like everyone has been saying, there is a winner and a loser. So if you don't want to be called cowards, or here you were pounded, or whipped or dominated, then don't! When you win, stand up and win with dignity. When you don't, then work harder so it doesn't happen again, and do it with dignity. Quit tyring not to hurt peoples feelings because of your silly politics.

Whatever! | 4:50 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

It is sports, everyone understands that there are winners and losers. That is not the problem. I don't think it is about feelings. It's about sportmanship, winning with dignity is not about throwing it in the face of the losers. Name calling is not winning with dignity! You can win with dignity and lose with dignity.
Parents, coaches, and the media is obessed with WINNING! No one wins all the time. If you lose it does not MAKE you a: "whinner", "coward","without talent", or a "joke". Kids quit becasue it is not fun. High school football players expected to pratice for hours and hours, however, if they lose and put down by fans, media, parents, called names.

Veteran Coach | 5:04 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

Amy did a great article, didn't she? Thank you.

I've coached for over 18 years. Had good teams and not so good ones.

I've always believed that you need to have fun in practice and games. Working hard is fun. Winning is fun. But the most fun is derived by having good relationships on and off the field.

Mike | 5:18 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

If they don't want to be put down, they shouldn't lose. It is as simple as that. It is life, not a fairytale. Do you think the loser out of Obama and McCain is gonna have everyone saying sweet, nice things so they don't feel bad! NO!!! Life is not a perfect wonderful thing. If you don't know how much it sucks to lose, then you can't feel the glory of victory. Stop with your whiney attitudes and win if you don't like feeling bad.

Same Paper | 5:36 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

This article that is recieving all of these kudos, for being so pro-sportsmanship, comes from the same sports writing department that a couple of months ago had one of its staff post an article asking if the D-news should report the names of the "bad" play makers as well as the good. For example "Johnny" made the error in the seventh inning. I just wonder how Ms. Donaldson feels about reporting the bad along with the good.

mike | 7:20 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

I am with you . Apparently mr. concerned about practicing too hard and watching film on Saturdays has NEVER been around much football. The kids that don't want to play isnt because of the coach, it is because they can't stand living vicariously through their parents. The only thing that parents like (Concerned) are good at, is blaming other people. Go deep concerned.

dk | 7:48 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

i completely agree with mike. America today is becoming so feel good it almost makes us weaker. when kids win, they get almost nothing out of it, if were treating kids that have lost the same way. Im not saying that for winning anyone should get special treatment and rub it in anyones face, but they should be declared and looked at as a winner. As the losers should be looked and called the losers. And this is where the problem starts. Instead of getting hurt feelings and quitting after losing, work harder. Making it like a job so to speak helps teach kids how to get through a tough time.It should still be fun but takin seriously. And then after all the work, winning is more fun than anything

a parent (and coach) | 8:12 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

Not only should parents make in course corrections, but coaches as well. I have been involved in coaching youth since 1985. I know of several instances when a hard core coach has run off kids, Why? because of the winning at all cost, yelling, put downs, playing favorites, etc, etc. I think every coach (and parent) should be required to attend a 1-2 hr "sports education" class before coaching or enrolling their children in a program/league etc. The certification could be transferable between cities and programs and has to be renewed every 2 yrs. Heck, divorcing parents have to go to "Divorce Education" before getting a divorce. Hmmmm, interesting, the concepts and principles are the same, that is "Its about the kids", not us (you).

Way out of control | 10:07 p.m. Oct. 21, 2008

Anyone who says prep sports is not a year-round commitment, a distraction from normal youth activities and a drain on a family's funds has their head in the sand. In today's world prep sports is far too important. It's not a game anymore. It's too time consuming and expensive. Mostly, it's driven by mom and dad wanting their children to be a bigger star than they were, or the star that they were not. Mom and dad care more about the headlines and honors than the kids. It's a low percentage who only care that their kids have fun. They want them to be more important than team, they want the wins, they want the honors and they want scholarships, and they'll pay big dollars and take away a child's normal life to get it.

reality czech | 12:05 a.m. Oct. 22, 2008

Mikey, Mikey - no one said that this was about blowing smoke and just telling kids nice things. It's about having high standards and correcting kids when they don't meet those standards - but in a way that educates them and doesn't demean them. Then it's for parents to realize that performance, winning and losing is up to the players and coaches - so they need to work with the coach to help make that happen by not "coaching" during the game (that many times undermines the coach) or over-analyzing the players performance after the game - that too is the coaches job. Finally kids need to learn that they will not always be * the winner* and giving their best effort is as important. If you've ever lost a game when you played great or won when you were terrible - you understand that the scoreboard is really insignificant. And unless you are the CEO of your company and your company is the best in its field - you better understand that concept!

Anonymous | 3:41 a.m. Oct. 22, 2008

It seems obvious to me that there are two people commenting on here who just don't get it. While it may be laudable to use a loss to inspire a greater effort, calling a young athlete a "loser" is simply wrong. I've been working with high school football players for over 20 years. The team I do my best to help has a record of 42-5 over the last four years, including this year to date. NEVER have I heard any of the coaches call any of our football players "a loser". We've lost games and won championships but the most important thing has always, always, ALWAYS been to TEACH. Teach integrity, honor, sportsmanship. But above all, simply expect that they give their best. To do otherwise is a greater failure than losing ever is
Winning a state championship was nice, winning region championships has become a given for us. But the best, most tremendous feeling I've known is when parents have said how much their son has grown. One mother said her son "blossomed" because of his participation in my alma mater's football program. My only thought was a hope that I helped, in some small way.

Dennis | 6:26 a.m. Oct. 22, 2008

Sports is a good reflection of life. Academically we really don't take "school" seriously until the 9th grade when peformance shows up on transcripts for later review.
Sports should be "fun" for grade schoolers.
Sports takes on a serious atmosphere the minute you take score, turn on the clock, fill the gym with fans and start crowning champions.
Stop fooling yourself Amy. Your take on High School sports has always been a severe soccer mom mentality and you do not have a clue. You look at athletics with a rose colored polyanna glasses and have no idea what is going on. Go in the locker room during a 5A championship game before the game starts and tell us all how "fun" it feels.

serious business | 7:54 a.m. Oct. 22, 2008

Playing sports is truly like a job
You work hard to get your position
you butter up to the boss
you are dedicated and there and on time every day
you play your role
you support your team
the pay check is the win
When you lose, even in a job, you don't give up
You try harder. Just like a job.
And by the way practice practice practice. Practice does not make perfect it improves. Which is something that we all, as hard working citizens strive for. The kids and the coaches are NOT the problem. If you ever go to a high school game. You notice that the kids are working hard with every piece of their hearts and souls, the coaches are dedicated and trying to help them accomplish that. The parents are in the stands , fighting amongst each other , screaming at the refs,degrading the players and the coaches. Do you get the big picture?

MOMS | 8:23 a.m. Oct. 22, 2008

Dennis must be one of those making money off of these kids. LIkely, he is one of those who describes the courage needed in sports, especially football, as seconod only to war. It is he who does not understand.

Get your head right | 9:23 a.m. Oct. 22, 2008

I am the parent of a couple of pretty good HS athletes. I have coached for the Boys & Girls club, part of the United Way youth athletic program. What people need to do is get their head right about youth sports..INCLUDING HS. It is important to instill a WILL to win in your team. Anyone who has seen a team who has become accustomed to and comfortable with losing knows that a part of the lesson to be taught has been lost. HOWEVER, to place winning above all other virtues and of the utmost value is even more harmful. The end result of such emphasis on win at all cost is a realization by the athlete, at some point, that they are not good enough to ALWAYS win. No matter what. THAT is what leads to kids dropping out of the program. If winning is all that matters, and they can't win, then it doesn't matter. Get the picture. The responsibility always falls FIRST on the parents, then on the coaches to instill proper values. "It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game" Sound familiar? The game hasn't changed. The words still apply!

former player | 9:44 a.m. Oct. 22, 2008

Sports were always fun until the coaches and parents showed up....

You kids health | 10:41 a.m. Oct. 22, 2008

Can you say obesity? Gone are the sandlot days, of tag and hide and go seek. You must play to win, and you must know absolutely know if you are a loser. If you canï¿½t win go play video games and eat junk food. Any wonder why we have become the fattest nation in the world. Go to a recreational league and watch the crowd ï¿½ itï¿½s not for recreation any more. Why not preach the value is in the exercise not the score and maybe your kid will live a little longer and healthier. (There nothing more valuable than your health)

BaldCoach | 10:49 a.m. Oct. 22, 2008

Exactly correct Get Your Head Right.
There are successes found even if you don't finish first in a race or win a match.
Mike losing is not the desired result, don't get me wrong. But the pressure that is put on Athletes by coaches, parents, classmates, and community members can be too much. The kid wouldn't be playing if they didn't want to win. Plain and simple. I have seen D1 caliber kids not want to play anymore after highschool because of the pressure they played with all through high school.

OH GET OVER IT | 10:52 a.m. Oct. 22, 2008

just a bunch of wanna bees...in the beehive! i'll just be a cheerleader! go beetdiggers!!

commonsense | 1:18 p.m. Oct. 22, 2008

It is only common sense that we don't call kids, people,etc. names. It is only common sense that we instill good values, integrity etc into our kids. And it only common sense that kids have the opportunity to play extracurricular sports AFTER school. Maybe you parents should focus on NO homework, so that the kids CAN play sports, take dance or whatever! They have been in school all day and now it is time to get physically healthy. Mind..... all day,physical...after school.common sense. They have been trying to preach this since JFK. Would you rather have your kids sitting in front of a T.V.? Come on... common sense. Get over it!

re: commonsense | 4:04 p.m. Oct. 22, 2008

??? I miss your point. We all agree that kids partisipating in excersize and sports is a good thing. The topic is on emphasis on winning over the sport itself. As for OH GET OVER IT...it is not whining to want the best for your children. It's called being a parent, wich it sounds like your not. Old time values. That is what America is lacking. It is what is causing the economic troubles we are facing today. We have forsaken the value of savings. It is responsible with the break down in the family unit. We don't honor our mothers and fathers, or our spouses. And it is what is the problem with youth athletics. We have become the "ME" generation. It is difficult, at best, to be a team player with that attitude.

BT | 10:39 p.m. Oct. 22, 2008

"Dennis", I've been in the locker room before the 5A state football championship game, with Bingham in '06. Some of the football players were tense but that wasn't the predominant feeling. It was excitement. The team had their usual pre-game music playing loudly. Maybe you've been in a state championship game, maybe you haven't. If you have been maybe you were nervous and tense before the game started. I don't know. But from what I saw that day, the Bingham football team expected to have fun in that game. It was intense and close, but also a lot of fun.

Wow!! | 11:58 p.m. Oct. 22, 2008

It's interesting to see what's been posted, I would hate to see our athletic programs be eliminated because we as coaches, parents, players, fans etc. cannot act civil to one another. What I get out of reading this article and posts is that the "winning" or "loosing" attitude our kids develop starts at home, in our homes is where we need to teach our children about what's really important when it comes to sports, when they see us belittle coaches or ref's then that attitude is passed on and our kids think it's okay to treat people disrespectfuly. It all starts in the home, take care of business there and we won't have the problems we're discussing here!!! just food for thought!

Being a parent | 10:04 a.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Apparently being a parent does not require the ability to spell or write a coherent, complete sentence. Wasn't English once one of those "old time values"?

re: Being a parent | 3:44 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

Way to make a personal attack and not stay on topic. I don't know why I even read this trash. I guess if you can't make an inteligent remark you just smear the other guy. All brains and no smarts...you must be a Democrat. Now THAT was a joke, and a good one at that.

republican | 3:49 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

`You have your democrats and republicans mixed up. NO JOKE

i just teach em | 5:11 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

your good because momma and daddy says so!

yeah | 6:33 p.m. Oct. 23, 2008

and you just look the other way with your double standards for sure!

Everyone's guilty... | 12:51 a.m. Oct. 24, 2008

parents, coaches and even the athletes. If winning wasn't a factor in anything we do would there be any use in competition? Winning is important when looked on as a measure we use to improve ourselves in whatever we do. If we lose, I'm speaking of sports specifically, we look to see why and what we need to improve our performance whether it's individual or as a team. When winning becomes the only goal then we often lose site of why we compete in the first place. Because somewhere way back when, it started out as just being fun. If it's not fun than it's just work. If it's work than it's just a job and if we love our jobs so much why do we always look forward to weekends, holidays and vacations? Ok, so I ramble.

commonsense | 9:52 a.m. Oct. 24, 2008

to re: to me How did saving money get into this conversation with wanting our kids to get physical exercise. I know I must not be a good parent because I think that it is important to get exercise. I must say, YOU are probably one of THOSE parents that sit in the stands, and bad mouth everyone, teaching YOUR children that kind of behavior. Simply because you attacked me for saying that the kids need exercise. Go Deep!

re:commonsense | 10:52 a.m. Oct. 24, 2008

Saving money is an example of a VALUE. I also think that exercise is important. I was agreeing with you. IT IS OF VALUE. If it came across as an attack it was unintentional and I apologize. The discussion was whether too much emphasis is placed on WINNING and not on developing the attributes that the sport builds (physical fitness, coordination, work ethic, sportsmanship) FYI, I am NOT one of those blame all parents. I support the coach 100%. I support the teachers 100%. I support, encourage, and do my best to motivate my children to do their best, in all things, INCLUDING EXERCISE. We are on the same side. My point is that a "winning attitude" is more important that a victory on the field. With preparation, attitude, determination and commitment much is possible, both in sports and in life. And THAT is the lesson that should be being taught in athletics. The measure of a person has never been how you stack up against others. If it is, than your VALUES are messed up.

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