Deseret News | Reader comments: Education officials in limbo on tests

Reader comments
Education officials in limbo on tests

Steven Jarvis | 5:37 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

These schools must take the CRTs so that we have a comparative result. How else would we know if these tests are better or even have validity?

Anonymous | 7:39 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

CRT's are a complete joke that show or prove nothing except that a kid can decipher the ridiculous questions.

to: Anon. 7:39 am | 8:41 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

I wonder if you are confusing the CRT, Criterion Reference Test, with the U-PASS, Utah Performance Assessment System for all Students, or the test that they must pass to get a diploma.

Comments continue below

Dreaming | 9:18 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Wouldn't it be nice to be a Private School and not have to deal with the turning tides (and unfunded or partially funded educational mandates) in Washington, D.C.?

Science Teacher | 10:29 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

You mean those private schools that just up and close their doors and take all the money with them?

Both pluses and minuses in all camps.

Anonymous | 10:52 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

No I'm not confusing them. I have to give the CRT's and a large number of the students seriously can't even figure out what the tests are asking.

They are just horrible tests.

orion | 1:12 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

In Logan district, due to a "new and improved scheduling," English, math, and science classes at the high school are at 40+ students per class. Can you believe it? A productivity program if I ever saw one. All on the backs of the teachers who are pressured by administrators into keeping up test scores. Ridiculous.

No wonder teachers are leaving the profession by the boatloads. Administrators are way out of line for rebuking teachers when test scores are lower due a mass-pruduction mentality.

Oh My. You May Need My Post... | 1:46 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

It would have been nice if this article had told the public what computer-adaptive testing is. It is a method of computerized testing that gives a student easier questions if he performs poorly. If gives students the feeling that they are doing OK when perhaps are not, and it muddles objective measures.

It is a very expensive procedure public schools are looking at to "address" poor student performance without actually improving it. It is what some of us have come to expect from public education.

DC | 1:51 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

So what exactly is computer adaptive testing?

Jaded | 2:36 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

To: Oh My

Computer-adaptive testing is one of the recommendations of the Governor's Blue Ribbon Panel on Assessment. Please go to the USOE site to see the members of this panel. Some, like Senator Howard Stephenson, are not known for advocating educational measures that don't improve student performance.

If you "expect" poor student performance from public education then that is exactly what you will will "see" through your jaded eyes!!!

orion | 2:58 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

If the legislature had to take the computer-adaptive test, would they get the one written in comic-book form?

Headline | 3:29 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

"Education officials in limbo on tests"

When are the Utah State Department of Education Officials not in limbo? This is news?

If that "White Palace" was on fire, Administrators would not leave the building until after their coffee break, a visit to the restroom, putting a cover sheet on the TPS reports, making a memo to make a memo about memos, then sitting at another Administrators desk and discussing how it feels to be wearing clothes that on fire.

Wanna cut education spending, that's the first place to look.

Oh My... | 5:35 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

To Jaded:

This testing system does not prepare students better. It does not address student preparation. It is an assessment or measurement tool only, but the data it creates is complex and obfuscates aggregation and meaningful comparison and extrapolation. It is a feel-better measure, and it is expensive.

Yes, an entrenched panel support it.

Steven Jarvis | 6:31 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Jaded,

Howard Stephenson is not a friend to public education. In the past year he FINALLY allowed small schools to get some of the fees they were required to wave reimbursed from the State. He actually even voted for it! He has kept this statute off the floor for years despite the need for those funds in rural Utah and has been the only thing to his credit done well. I still wonder why the sudden change of heart. Is he up for re-election?

Stephenson shut out funding to the IB program (saved by the omnibus after Stephenson and Dayton killed it in committee), porked 3.5 million for Preschool computer software when older kids don't even have access to computers (put on the Omnibus after it was defeated), and lowered the money both Charter schools and District schools get by forcing a change in how property taxes fund things (also put on the omnibus after its defeat). It shouldn't surprise anyone why we cannot allow omnibus bills to ever be used again, just pointing out Stephenson.

Don't forget Stephenson is an ardent supporter of the Private school voucher program. He was the most egregious of the offenders.

Steven Jarvis | 6:37 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Dreaming | 9:18 a.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Private schools have problems in Utah and across the US that you may not be aware of. My friend has three kids in one. Last year they ALMOST closed doors. At some point they will. Private school education has such a high cost that they cannot keep enrollment up. Even my sister's class has just thirteen students (she teaches at a private school). When they lose a family because of the cost, the cost for the remaining students goes up. More then leave causing the cycle to repeat.

Didn't anyone ever wonder why PCE was so active pushing Vouchers? They are trying to save the Private school system. The only private school system that has relative stability is our excellent Catholic school system in Utah. Most of the others are stressed.

Clear? | 7:35 p.m. Oct. 13, 2008

Steven,

I agree with everything you have posted. Read both of my posts again--you are missing my way of saying things.

Working in public education for 18 years, I am well aware of the agenda of Senator Stephenson. I was simply trying to point out to "Oh My" the inconsistency of slamming public education (again) by criticizing a program supported by a foe of public education. Is that clear now?

As for the matter of private schools...

The frequent poster "reason" loves to advocate vouchers as a way to inject "competition" into education. My point is that true competition cannot happen when public schools must follow the changing winds of Washington, D.C. (as well as the very expensive unfunded/partially funded mandates coming from D.C.) and private schools don't. Once again I have 18 years of awareness of the challenges facing both public and private education in our state and country. Clear?

THE JOKER | 9:02 a.m. Oct. 14, 2008

Testing required to graduate...Say What? Parents complain, lawyers get involved and next thing you know they have no validity.

Steven Jarvis | 11:38 a.m. Oct. 14, 2008

I posted earlier, but apparently it was censored.

These boards really should require registration to use. Really.

I misread your earlier post Jaded. Sadly many in Stephenson's area will vote him back in despite his record in education. Some I have talked to actually believe he has done a great job. He has too much power and influence, has been public enemy number one to public education, but gets re-elected time and time again.

THE JOKER | 9:20 p.m. Oct. 14, 2008

Hey Jarvis...You Da Man!! Stephenson needs to go away!!!

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