Deseret News | Reader comments: MormonTimes.com: Original 'Poor Wayfaring Man' had different tune

Reader comments
MormonTimes.com: Original 'Poor Wayfaring Man' had different tune

Wow | 12:30 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

Fascinating!

Travis | 1:24 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

That is fascinating. I hope the Church incorporates this new melody when it makes films and videos about the martyrdom.
For lack of a better place to suggest this, may I say here that I think the Deseret News and Mormon Times ought to be reporting on the legalization of gay marriage by the Connecticut Supreme Court. That is a matter of high concern for members of the LDS Church.

Susan Cropper | 1:44 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

Always happy to hear a new tune and be given a copy to boot! So "THANX" is in order! Actually it is pretty similar to the one we know and sing. And that is fine. I love the hymns and knowing how they came to be, and really love - in ANY language - to lead them before congregations of saints. Wonder if we could try this in our Spanish Branch -- would anyone notice a difference? Hmmm...

Comments continue below

Sarah | 4:52 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

That's amazing. I like the new tune, it's a little less stylized than the one I grew up with. I prefer the newer one, it's one of my very favorite hymns, but I do like the old as well. I think that they should publish it in future hymnals. One or two of the other hymns have more than melody to them, and this should be as well.

Warren | 6:26 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

Interesting. I have wondered for years, though, if anybody knows the original melody to "The Spirit of God" as sung at the Kirkland Temple dedication.... (not the the current tune is not entirely inspiring)

Stephen Werner | 7:31 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

I can't wait to play this and be transported back in time.

Robert Oh | 8:06 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

That is the song that teaches about our Mother in Heaven. I've always liked it.

MP3 | 8:07 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

It would have been nice to put a link to a wav file or mp3 so we could hear it. Let's be a little more forward thinking in our reporting next time.

Download | 9:02 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

The download has a strongly worded copyright notice on it. Is it okay to download?

Bryan | 9:29 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

I always felt there was something not right about how the hymn was presented and sung in Carthage, now I know why. Ii don't know how many times I have wished I could have joined in singing with Pres. Taylor to Hyrum and Joseph, now I can.

Thank you for publishing the music. I can't wait to hear it played although I can already hear it in my mind.

Amazing | 9:38 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

What a great story! I cant wait to hear the new melody. Well done Professor Walker. Well done.

Marcus Smith | 9:41 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

In it's main delineations, this "original" hymn is not really all that much different from the one we are familiar with today. One can easily hear how Beesley tweaked here and there ... the meter matches ... the fundamental contours of the melodic line, though not a perfect mirror, are clearly from the same melodic DNA ... It's the harmonization that is responsible for significant differences in mood, and yet when Taylor sang at Carthage, important to remember, is the fact that he sang melody only ... no accompaniment. Those who analyze and follow folk melodies know that variations always occur. But you CAN recognize in today's tune this "newly found" melody. So this interests me, but I think it's really a subtle story about a subtle change over time. Beesley didn't fully ditch out on the "original" with his modern version. We perhaps sing it more sentimentally today than perhaps fits with a the rhythmic lilt of the PDF.

RE;TRAVIS 124AM | 9:44 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

This should be a high priority/concern for all true christians world wide.The gay rights agenda and outright greed and corruption by our so-called leaders are slowly but surely laying waste to the world as we know it.

Really? | 10:05 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

Something that is not in the current hymnal? There is a great deal of truly uplifting music that can't be used because of the restriction of everything coming out of the hymnal. I am not sure what happened to the concept of teaching people the correct principle and they will do what is correct accordingly. That would include special musical numbers in our church meetings when appropriate.

Sarah | 10:40 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

I think that's fantastic. I quite like the old melody, it's similar to the new but with a few changes. I hope that they might include it in the next edition of the hymnbook. There are at least one or two other hymns with more than one melody, so it'd be nice to have both available for this one as well.

Stan | 11:30 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

We noted the copyright and ask what approval/fees are required to let our choir sing it.

lois | 11:48 a.m. Oct. 11, 2008

but what most news people neglect to say is that sara didn't break any law

Mark | 2:29 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008

Hymn history has been a fascination of mine for years, so this is big news in the field. The other candidate for the original tune was one from the 'Sacred Harp', a folk hymnbook still in use that was published in the early 1840's (and was the source for Clayton's reworked hymn "All Is Well"). That tune, while in 2/4 instead of 6/8, was also closely related melodically to the familiar tune. As far as the copyright goes, only the harmonization could be copyrighted - the tune is public domain. And, not to be rude, but this harmonization is FULL of amatuerish writing - wrong voicing and voice leading, not to mention sloppy notation. I'll send you a proper setting for nothing! :)

Mark | 2:38 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008

If I read the copyright correctly, the ARRANGEMENT is copyrighted, not the tune. I am no expert, but this tune was first written down over a hundred years ago. There can be no copyright on the tune itself. If you read the copyright, it reflects this.

That legalese out of the way, I really like this tune. I never could quite understand why the Prophet would want such a melancholy tune sung when he was so down. It just didn't match what I know about Joseph Smith.

But I can definitely see where he would want this upbeat tune sung twice just before the martyrdom.

Jeff Walker (arranger) | 4:37 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008

Friends,

I am certainly more of an historian then a musician. Anyone can use the arrangement as long as it is not for profit. The copyright only extends to "for profit" use. I am confident that others will arrange the tune beautifully and with much more skill than I have done. My goal was to keep it simple and not to detract from Taylor's melody.

I have prepared a lengthy paper documenting my work in uncovering Taylor's melody and placing it within a proper historical context. I understand that BYU Religious Studies will be publishing it.

Jeff Walker

Lizzy | 4:56 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008

Re: Mark 2:29 p.m.
While the arranging may have been simple, it certainly speaks to your level of maturity with your comments about the article and song. They were rude. The beauty of the song, article and presentation was in it's simplicity and cherished history. Too bad you were too busy critiquing it's musicality to enjoy the spirit that accompanied it.

a musician | 10:11 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008

That's not a different tune. It's a "variant" version of the same tune.

It's frustrating to read a story in the Deseret News and then check the facts and find out that the story is wrong.

Kurt | 11:03 p.m. Oct. 11, 2008

By the way, I just wish that Ebenezer Beesley and the rest of the Church Music Committee in 1887 had taken the time to write down the names of ALL of the old tunes that the Saints had been singing since 1835. Or maybe they did, and we just haven't found the list yet. When they wrote the Latter-day Saints Psalmody (the first LDS hymnal to include music with the words), the Church Music Committee discarded almost all of the old tunes that the Saints had been singing from memory for 50 years. As a result, today we have almost no clue as to what tunes the Saints sang in 1836, at least for about half of the hymns in the 1835 hymnal. What a shame.

Kurt | 10:51 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

Warren,
I believe I found the original tune to "The Spirit of God" several years ago. Actually, there were two "original" tunes. In the Messenger and Advocate, January 1836, Phelps specified the tune AMERICAN STAR, which you can still find in The Sacred Harp. By the dedication of the Kirtland Temple in March, 1836, Phelps had changed the tune to something called HOSANNAH, which was also used by "Now Let us Rejoice" at that dedication. The only 12 11 12 11 meter hymn named HOSANNAH I have been able to find was in the 1820 Supplement to the Kentucky Harmony. It fits The Spirit of God perfectly,in my estimation, and is very likely the tune you were wondering about.

Frans Heijdemann (musician) | 4:26 p.m. Oct. 12, 2008

A great discovery. It's confusing that this tune is referred to as new while being older than the one we're used to sing. I always wondered about what John Taylor would have sung exactly. I sang the hymn (in Dutch) on a pioneer songs cd, using Beesley's melody version and with a simpler accompaniment than in the hymnbook, and I noticed that it's hard to sing it fluently, at the sime time avoiding taking breaths at illogical places.
The original tune is more folksong-like and easier to sing than the version in the hymnbook; apparently Ebenezer Beesley wished to make the melody more fluent, and he also made the rhythm more regular for the hymnbook. I would not recommend using the provided pdf for singing by a choir or for accompaniment; many musicians should be able to provide a better singable or playable arrangement.
In any future movies on Joseph Smith's martyrdom, the now discovered tune should be used, to be sung unaccompanied of course.
It would be interesting to see what's thought to be the original tune for The Spirit of God. Is it available in any modern publication?

Mark | 12:58 a.m. Nov. 6, 2008

I'd really like to see a scanned copy of the original in addition to the new Walker arrangement. There's no way for me to tell what exactly was arranged. It's good to know exactly what the original was like, is what I mean.

Were there any other copies of the choir book printed, or just this one? Was it printed, or hand-written?

Also, how is it known that George Coles wrote the original (as stated in the PDF)? It isn't Duane Street, if that is what is thought (I know that tune, by George Coles, which is also paired with these lyrics, and it's completely different). Of course, it is possible that George Coles wrote two songs called Duane Street, but I doubt that, and partly because his style does not seem anything like the style contained in this tune (it is not at all lively).

Do you have any pre-1939 sources with the tune names and composers of either of these tunes?ï¿½the 1889 Psalmody calls the Beesley tune Hyrum. I personally believe everything published after 1939 is in error regarding the matter; Stories of Latter Day Saint Hymns Their Authors and Composers, 1939 (p. 12) can explain why.

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