Deseret News | Reader comments: Death on the line

Reader comments
Death on the line

Murder is wrong... | 12:41 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

even if the state does the killing. Killing is wrong. No man should hold that judgment seat. Only God, and he states clearly that killing is wrong.

Tamera | 3:48 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

I agree. I would go further and a bit off the subject to state that there would be no need to go to the length of putting one to death, if our jails and prisons were not so accomodating. I believe a jail should be exactly that. No television, no cigarettes, no exercise equipment. The only extra's I think appropriate would be counceling/rehabilitation. If jail were a horrible place to be, maybe people would think twice about crimes that will take them there. As well as, maybe some could see that living out ones days in a cell could be worse than being put to death.(therefore serving a just punishment) I think I went off on a slightly different tangent there, and I am sorry. I do also believe we should not kill, because it is wrong. Unless I have a gun pointed at my head. Which is an entirely different tangent again...I will just stop now and let others take it from here. :)

Your Right about somethings | 5:31 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

Killing is wrong. So why did these 3 individuals commit these horrific crimes. Based on our current laws I agree if they are found guilty without a reasonable doubt, they should quickly go and meet their maker also. I am fully supportive of the death penalty.

Comments continue below

TexanUt | 5:57 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

No negotiation,preferably execution.

Murder is wrong... | 6:28 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

and no one will argue with that.

In some instances, God has commanded, authorized, or allowed killing.

Add to your understanding.
It lowers stress and hate.

Kitchy | 6:46 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

I support the death penalty but all the appeals and costs are ridiculous. Judges, courts and lawyers are basically corrupt and the entire system is a failure. Its kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. One appeal should be it but should be fairly judged. I don't think there is fairness in the system anymore. Its all about winning now and justice is a thing of the past.

Shall call evil good and good ev | 7:19 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

Just goes to show how perverse our society has become today that they won't justify the execution of someone who sealed their fate when they made the choice to kill another.

"Whoso sheddeth manï¿½s blood, by man shall his blood be shed..." Genesis 9:6

But I guess the Bible is just a book of fairy tales.

But then again, Death by Toxin, is hardly something that scares criminals. Hanging, Electrocution, Firing Squad. All of these punishments should be brought back.

You do that and I can guarantee that you will see a significant decrease in murders. There is a reason we have such a high murder rate and it has everything to do with our "humane" punishments of lethal injection.

Anon | 7:31 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

I think it is a waste of time and money when it has already been proven that they committed a crime. They gave up their rights the minute they took an innocent life. They should now pay the consequences if it is death so be it. All choices have consequences they chose what they chose so lets save us all time and money and let them receive their consequences.

broken | 8:15 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

Legal system is broken...just like government. What meaning is there if a murderer is never executed or is executed 15 or 25 years later??????

Neil | 9:19 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

Tamera what planet do you live on. I worked at the prison for five years. Cigarettes have been banned for years. It is already a horrible place and it does not deter crime. Never will. Punishment has never changed behavior. I am sick and tired off all the hate in our society. And what about all the wrongful convictions. Happens all the time.

Keep in mind... | 9:24 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

That even if the jails were a more horrible place to be, or if the punishment were more strict, would criminals still think twice about killing? Aren't most of them not really thinking of the consequences when they are performing the crime? Isn't it passion/anger/hurt/jealousy that drives a person to kill? If their emotions are so intense, I highly doubt they are thinking of how they will be put to death themselves. And some are delusional thinking they will never get caught or they were actually in the right about killing someone... somehow justified. So, personally, I do not put much stock into criminals behaving themselves if there were worse options for their crimes.

It's Finally Been Said | 9:38 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

and by a lawyer to boot. Justice costs money. The system is inherently broken because to get a chance at justice, you have to have money -- and lots of it.

I wonder how many peope are in our jails or prisons not because they are guilty, but because they are poor or middle class and cannot afford the enormous costs of a trial, even a trial that is not a murder trial.

Expert witnesses cost. Attorney fees for court are higher than regular attorney fees. The judicial system gets bogged down. There are motions to file and fight, all costing more and more money. It all becomes so draining the defendant simply gives up rather than bankrupt his family and accepts a deal for a lesser crime or for the charged crime and serves his sentence.

Should there be grounds for appeal -- more money. There needs to be a way to get justice without it being dependent on your economic status.

karron | 9:50 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

My son was murdered. In cold blood. Along with his best friend. For no reason. By someone we all knew and liked. Because he was drinking, he didn't get the death penalty even though it was premeditated murder. Am I happy with that? Absolutely not. Not when the killer has no remorse, no willingness to say why he killed two men and tried to kill a third other than he wanted to kill someone. He is proud of his actions because he thinks that makes him a man.

Until you have walked in the shoes of someone who has lost a loved one to murder, don't start with the whole holier than thou thing. It would be a perfect world if everyone had love and compassion. It isn't, and will never be a perfect world. What we have to deal with is the aftermath of the way society thinks video games where murder is the winning, and violence is gratuitous in a million ways, are FUN.

I absolutely believe in the death penalty for those who kill without conscience, and feel it is their right to do so. An eye for an eye . . . for those who hate.

Another Thought | 10:08 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

How about an innocent man convicted
Yes this happens in Box Elder County
The Judgres are the problem
Federal Criminals
Once charged, You are locked up
Innocents is not an option
The Prosecutor does not protect innocent people
He is a prosecutor
Utah has a bad reputation with prosecutors
You may be next to be prosecuted

Our justice system is the worst. | 10:26 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

Our justice system is the worst... minus all the rest.

It may have issues, but I live here BECAUSE OF OUR justice system. It is a major part of the Great Experiment that this great county is built upon. People come here because of the fairness and equal treatment under the law (as well as economic opportunity). The simple fact that we can complain and snivel about our government is a trait that makes our justice system and our system of governance great.

I am a supporter of Capital punishment, and of the constitution. The constitution was written with a suspicion of government as the greatest threat to individual liberties. With that in mind, amendments limiting the power of the government were added. Over the years, those great words have guided our imperfect justice system. When the government has encroached on the individual liberties the justice system has imperfectly restored the balance.

The weighing of punishment vs. individual rights of the accused is an expensive and methodical process especially when we are talking about the ultimate penalty. I donï¿½t mind the cost. It assures that before MY government kills, that the level of evidence is sufficient.

uncannygunman | 10:33 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

I disagree with the very first premise expressed in this article: these murders do not appear to be particularly heinous to me, they're just murders. You stab your father on Father's Day and you get the death penalty but you stab him on Mother's Day and you just get life in prison? Where are all the anti-hate crime people hollering about how "every crime is the same"?

Meanwhile, you have the situation where a group of people invade a home and brutally beat two gay men and the DA won't even charge them (No, this stain on the DA's office is not going away.).

There are a lot of reasons to oppose the death penalty, but the randomness with which it is applied is one of the most convincing to me.

Tamera and broken | 10:36 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

Broken and Tamera you both state that the court system is broken then advocate using that broken system to take another persons life, exactly how many innocent people are you alright killing using a broken system?
Also Tamera as someone that has worked in the salt lake count jail I can tell you it is not a comfortable place to be, they do not have it easy.
Before anyone starts on me with their bull let me tell you I do not advocate just letting criminals run free but what I learned when I worked in the criminal justice system has convinced me that our system is far to imperfect to safely justify execution.

legal eagle | 10:38 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

This article points out why I prefer life sentence. The appeal process is a circus, and makes a mockery of the system and our society. The costs in dollars and emotions are outrageous. Putting the killers away for life, to slowly rot, forgotten by the society they offended, is more punishing than all the attention they get during the years of appeals of a death sentence.

Not a Deterrent | 11:46 a.m. Oct. 12, 2008

"There is a reason we have such a high murder rate and it has everything to do with our "humane" punishments of lethal injection."

What about the fact that Canada and most of Europe doesn't have the death penalty - and yet most of those countries have a significantly lower violent crime rate than us? We are a violent culture. The violence in our society has nothing to do with "fearsomeness" (or lack thereof) of the death penalty. The death penalty is NOT a deterrent.

And, for the record, I had a close uncle killed by a hitchhiker. And one of my best friends was killed by a man who broke into her home. In cold blood, etc. And, yet, I still don't support the death penalty. Imagine that.

KTMJIMMIE | 3:28 p.m. Oct. 12, 2008

I fully support the death penalty, but I also believe that if they are found guilty and punishable by death, then the grace of god should take them within 48 hours of said sentence and I'm sure that the state, and county will find it alot cheaper. Cheap justice....mabe. But these people made a decision to kill, that's what make's them criminals!

Melinda L. Brown | 3:30 p.m. Oct. 12, 2008

I believe people should be given a chance to repent and change. However, if someone murders they should be required to give up their own life.

awesomeron | 4:25 p.m. Oct. 12, 2008

The Death Penalty is a good thing and should be applied to other crimes other then Murder, such as Child Rape, some people just need to be turned off.

There is also a question of being "Judged by God" what if a person does not believe in God?

The only problem with the Death Penalty is that in America it takes far to long to carry out, once convicted the process should be expedited as soon as possible. Weeks instead of years. This is better for the convicted person and for society in general. Also it cost far less.

I have no problems with Kirsch and Gardea getting the Death Penalty. However Ragsdale Not So Much. I see him as a Victim and I do not think he was sane at the time of the crime. Life perhaps but Death No Way.

Also this method is used to get life sentences with out a Court Fight, the so called Plea Deal. That is sick and somewhat wrong.

I like Utah County Attorney Jeff Buhman for the vast most part.

Utah is lucky to have the Death Penalty, Hawaii does not and we suffer greatly for not having it.

protection | 5:19 p.m. Oct. 12, 2008

The death penalty is not only about justice, but also to protect the innocent--heaven forbid one of them should get the opportunity to hurt someone again.

Skippy | 6:14 p.m. Oct. 12, 2008

If you don't agree with the death penalty law in Utah move.

really? | 6:35 p.m. Oct. 12, 2008

so KTMJIMMIE and awesomeron you are alright with inocent people being killed by the state, well I hope for your sake you are never falsely convicted of a crime.

Death Row and $$ | 7:09 p.m. Oct. 12, 2008

A Lehi police officer told me that it costs about $1 million each year per death row inmate. That's ridiculous. The problem is all the mandatory appeals. Why I don't want someone innocent to die, there needs to be a better (and far cheaper) way to handle this.

Broken System | 7:09 p.m. Oct. 12, 2008

I challenge all those who have commented on this thread to read the book "Actual Innocence: When Justice Goes Wrong and How to Make it Right."

Sometimes juries get it wrong.

@skippy | 9:05 p.m. Oct. 12, 2008

oh yippee skippy thats right it is your state and the rest of us should just get out!

Murder - killing | 10:23 p.m. Oct. 12, 2008

Someone commented about killing (i.e., death penalty) in biblical context. I would suggest some deep research on the following. In the ancient Hebrew, there was a difference between the word that gets translated to kill and the word that gets translated to murder. There is a different context.

re: Not a Deterrent | 10:46 p.m. Oct. 12, 2008

Oh please. Explain then why Saudi Arabia has a lower murder rate than almost every other country? Much lower than Canada? Could it be that they are extremely strict with misconduct in society? Nah, that could never be it.

You cannot possibly argue that punishment and consequences are not deterrents to crime.

Lucky | 4:36 a.m. Oct. 22, 2008

From first hand experience....You don't EVER want the USA to be more like Saudi Arabia. They are more unfair and intolerant than most nations on this Earth. If a non Saudi National has an incident with a Saudi, regardless of who is at fault, the non Saudi will have an almost impossible time trying to get out of assuming all the blame, costs and punishment. Do you want to be scared of your government? Go ahead and become more like Saudi. Do you want to have rights to a fair trial and legal representation if you can't afford it? Then keep the common law system as practiced in the US and most Western countries.
Those who are not guilty have no reason to fear....In a perfect world maybe but this aint a perfect world and due course has to be followed'so you have the best chance at getting at the truth. It protects us all.

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