Deseret News | LDS Church urges pro-Proposition 8 calls

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LDS Church urges pro-Proposition 8 calls

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Ewwww | 8:29 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

It was great to see the church take one step forward with its press release a month or so ago about same-sex attraction and utterly devastating to see them run ten steps back. Once again another act of cognitive dissonance from the church where there actions don't match their words.

marriage not an issue? | 8:31 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

To those who ask where my stats are: they are public domain from the school district that I work for and are Federally mandated data that anyone can find at any state website. The stats I cited are certified and declared by the school district to the State and then declared to the Federal Government Department of Education which sends back the federal dollars to the state and then on to the district. So what does the stats have to do with the reality of the school that I teach at? Just a ploy by the gay community to cover their own ineptness and selfishness that a family with a mon and dad have a greater impact on the success of a child than no family or a makeshift pitiful facsimile. You are demeaning the concern for the future of our youth. This type of questioning smacks at the core of every teacher and care giver of at risk children or students. Families of mom and dads DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE! Go live in the projects if you want your own assessment of mom and dad in the home and their value.

RealLDS | 9:20 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

To LDS and opposed to 8. Quit pretending and take off the mask.

Comments continue below

JUDGE NOT | 9:32 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

Judge not and be not Judged, If I remember right this past confrence was about not Judging our neighbors and loving those who despise us, to all the orthadox L.D.S. Remember not everyone fits in the small mold you want to put them in, we all have Free agency, Even Gay people believe it or not, until I have walked in their shoes I will not Judge them, Someday science may discover a gene that proves this...........

Brian in Boise | 9:35 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

To: LDS4gaymarriage
I'm not Steve in Boston, but if the Dr went to a NEO-Nazi church, and the couple were coming in for fertility treatment...I personally would have no problem with the Dr. refusing to treat them. Fertility is not a life/death issue and it would not go against their hippocratic oath.

The Methodist church had every right to not allow the use of their property. I think these judges are way out of line.

As for the Catholic loosing the funds...I agree the government has the right to require them to adopt to all couples if they are using government $$$. I'm dissappointed though that the government would rather not have them provide the service if they refuse to adopt to gays. Very dissapointing.

You are clearly not LDS though, having read through your comments. You need only read the Church's Proclamation on the Family to see how far off base you are.

Investigator 0708wa | 9:47 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

In the year that I have been attending a LDS church I have learned,

Marriage is between a man and a woman

There is nothing wrong with having high moral standards.

You are all free to do what ever you want, just be prepared for the consequences.

The women aren't slaves to the men. (quess who really wears the pants/has the keys in the family)

The letter that was read on Sunday from the first presidency said nothing about how or who I should vote for. Only to study up on the issues and vote what ever way I want.

The people that claim the Mormans have all kinds of secrets, have yet to share with me what the secrets are.

The temple is not a dark scary place.

And Mormons don't have horns. (I haven't seen any)

Jeff | 10:01 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

Every time this issue comes up, I am very concerned about those within the church, struggling with homosexual feelings. It is very difficult for these folks to listen to the kind of angry rhetoric here or elsewhere and not be deeply affected. This can be incredibly damaging and all too often results in suicide. I know this firsthand because I am gay, grew up in the LDS Church and I tried to kill myself 3 times when I was young as a reaction to a less than loving environment. Thank God I did not succeed! I deeply honor the right of all to believe what they will, even if it may be harmful, but it is my hope that the Church and its membership would make an investment of love and resource that is at least equal to its investment in the passage Prop 8. I don't want to hear of another suicide or another gay LDS member suffer from the mental illnesses I have struggled with for years. The Jesus I know loved "The One" above institutions and it is my wish that no more lives be needlessly sacrificed at the altar of religious zealotry.

re: comment at 9:20 | 10:03 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

I hate to tell you this but they are not pretending. A friend of mine at BYU told me yesterday that a lot of people she knows there are in the same boat. They believe that a loving, tolerant person would be happy to allow gays to marry.

It would not be loving and tolerant to remove the laws of the road that keep us safe. A loving God understands what would happen down the road. There is no true freedom without proper laws and latter-day prophets have given us the word of the Lord, absolutely, on the subject.

Vazquez | 10:06 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

I will do as the Lord commands!!!!

Tammy | 10:21 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

To the several posts who want to know how legalizing same-sex "marraige" will harm "the rest of us":
Marriage, and all rituals and social expectations related thereto form the basis of all societies.
For example, marriage began to seriously "fall-apart" after the impact of the women's liberation movement in the 60's and 70's. They influenced the changing of "women's roles" in marraige which began a morally damaging ripple effect throughout society,
changing our world a great deal.
Their "stepchildren" in every age feminism has come
to are the homosexuals, who spawn as well as are the spawns of feminism.
Marriage is not just a casual relationship, but links the present with the past and future, by uniting male and female to produce offspring. It cannot be intellectualized, legalized or demoralized into something else.
Society is the subset of marriage, not the other way around.
IF you alter marraige you alter everything else.
If you find this hard to see, it is because you are too close to it.

@marriage is not an issue? | 10:26 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

The fact that you seem to think that you can take stats about a single parent living in the projects and use that as evidence that gay couple cannot be good parent is frightening if you truly work in our school system. I could just as well make justification for an argument that because short people cannot reach the top shelf all beds should have headboards. So I will see your unrelated stats and raise you peer reviewed research (I assume you know why that is significant) available on the websites of the American Pediatric Society and the American Psychological Association. They conclude that there is no difference in social or psychological functioning between children raised in a heterosexual two parent household and a homosexual two parent household. Actually comparing apples to apples, see how that works?

Jerome | 10:29 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

There recently was a lawsuit by a student who is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to compel a Christian Fraternity to admit him as a member since The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints considers itself Christian even though the fraternity does not. This is not the first lawsuit by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints against other religions seeking to force them to make changes.

Reading through the arguments on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints web site the basic concern seems to be that if same sex relationships are designated as marriages then people who oppose same sex marriage would be open to this kind of lawsuit by the people who favor it. These lawsuits could be used to change the notion of marriage just as the influx of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would change the notion of a Christian Fraternity.

@Tammy | 10:40 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

Tammy do you have any evidence showing a causal link (which is different from a casual link) between the changing nature of marriage and the womenï¿½s rights movement or homosexuals? Unless you can show a causal relationship then I could just as easily use an equally silly argument that marriages have declined since the 1970's due to the introduction of disco. Oh wait that might be true.
I am assuming you do know that not all societies have defined and do not currently define marriage the same way you do, but based on your other statements that may not be as safe assumption.
statments that may not be as safe assumption.

Anonymous | 10:57 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

Urban legends will not support your bigotry. Try again.

inferno714 | 11:05 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

To the guy who quoted Luke 18:9-14 at 6:20 pm, if you're going to change the words of a passage of scripture, at least let people know that you're changing it, please. I don't disagree that this could apply to the situation you gave, but the actual parable was of a publican and a Pharisee, not a bishop and a homosexual person. Good analogy, though. There are arrogant people out there who will judge their fellows without knowledge. This is very un-Christian and not the way the Lord would have them do.

That being said, I would vote for Proposition 8 if I lived in California. There are too many things that can go downhill if it doesn't pass, most of which have already been mentioned. There will be domino effect of sorts. Other states will likely follow suit, and it may get to the point where I don't have the option of moving somewhere that doesn't allow gay people to call their relationship marriage. Next thing we know, people will want to marry their cousins or their uncles because of "love," and we'll have to let them. I know some will think this is ridiculous, but it's a possibility.

To Brian in Boise: | 11:06 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

New Jersey gave a state property tax deduction to the Methodist church in exchange for a pavilion being opened to public use. The ruling stated that public use meant public use and any discrimination against members of the public meant it was not public use and therefore did not qualify for a property tax deduction.

Catholic Charities was not just receiving money from the state - they were acting as a state agency by placing children who had been removed from homes for various reasons. As a state agency, they could not discriminate. LDS Family Services, which functions as a private adoption agency, has faced no legal challenges pertaining to adoptions.

As for the doctor, California statutes prohibit discrimination. Businesses have to treat everyone the same. Is that really such a horrible thing?

Re; Jeff | 11:23 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

Jeff, your comments were about the best on this blog. Having a gay cousin who grew up active LDS, I truly do feel for what you went through and continue to go through now.

I have no hard feelings toward anyone who is gay or thinks they might be gay. I do not wish them to be unhappy.

I am concerned, however, with the agenda that is behind the same-sex marriage effort. I think we've seen some of the side effects in Europe, Canada, and Massachusetts. It seems less about civil rights (which civil unions already provide) and more about taking away the fundamental right to believe what one wants to believe.

Ron | 11:27 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

Marriage is the union of a Man and a Woman. That's the definition. How any institution or organization can have the authority or right to change that definition is absurd.

LDS members here opposing this need to be reminded of Sodom and Gomorrah. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

If same sex couples want to be together, well, that's their choice, but why do they need to call it marriage? Why should they have the right to degrade something that is sacred and special to myself and countless others? I'm so sick of all the so called 'minority' groups who feel they have every right to just waltz in and change any rules they want just to fit their selfish desires!

If we allow things like this to continue, when does it end? This is the part people miss. If we continue to gradually back away from every conviction we have, in the end, we will have nothing left. Grow a backbone and stand up for your faith and your leaders.

Aaron | 11:36 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

As a member of the LDS church, I don't see the urgency for the church to get involved.
Although gay marriage may be a reflection of moral decay in society, I do not see how it would be the cause of it.

Even If gay marriage were legalized, there would be absolutely no way the laws could revoke any church's freedoom to deny performing a gay marriage or the teaching of homosexuality as a sin.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Pre-Missionary Mormon | 11:58 p.m. Oct. 8, 2008

Said Sadly, I am sad about these steps too. The People are so ignorant and afraid of political correctness and offending people they will not act. I am sick of ignorant people bowing to loud mouth opportunists. I will not support gay marriage. My wonderful Church leaders, under direct guidance from GOD are also speaking out. Our leaders are right to do and say these things.

I do not hate gay people. I oppose the thing but accept your free will. You will now say how much I really do hate gay people but it is a lie.

Sodomy is an affront to God. Marriage is God's institution. Gay marriage mocks God. It really is that simple. If you don't agree then I will let you alone. This is the main difference between the aptly named Gay Mafia. They will not shut up. They know if they do they will loose because the majority will forget them and that would ruin all that they have created. Read the mentioned articles about how this will effect marriage.I beg the quiet reader, please rise from your ignorance. I cannot stand ignorance. A free people must prove they are worthy of it.

Southern CA Porter Rockwell | 12:06 a.m. Oct. 9, 2008

For those fellow LDS who oppose or have liberal opinions about California's Proposition 8, may I remind you of question # 4 in the temple recommend interview? It is very simple, just Choose The Right! Vote YES!

Heather Fisher in California | 12:35 a.m. Oct. 9, 2008

I feel strongly about this, so I give my name. This isn't about benefits, inheritance, or hospital rights...if Prop. 8 fails, we all lose. Our opinions, beliefs, and values will be outlawed. Gay marriage is a step towards outlawing Christian teaching on homosexuality. Ake Greene, a Swedish minister, was sentenced to prison for strong anti-homosexual sermons- he was charged with violating the country's hate-crimes law after an anti-gay sermon. Fortunately, he was acquitted on appeal, but we'll see the same here if Prop. 8 fails. In the name of "equality for all," our rights to freedom of speech will be curtailed and even ended. Canada and Europe have hate-speech laws now. This is 1984 (George Orwell novel)! I will NEVER condone or accept homosexual behavior or anything that sanctions it. I live with the knowledge that someday down the road, I may have to go to jail for my beliefs. David Parker in Massachussetts was arrested after asking school officials to give him an opt-out on homosexual material for his child at school (his right as a parent). He refused to leave until they granted that, but they had him arrested for trespassing instead. VOTE YES on PROP. 8!

Sad Times | 1:16 a.m. Oct. 9, 2008

As Latter-Day-Saints there is no group in our country who should be more tolerant of non- traditional forms of marriage than all of us who look backward to our wonderful, if polygamist, ancestors who suffered and were persecuted because of their "non-traditional" form of marriage.

Have today's Saints forgotten that in the 19th century our ancestors were violently and relentlessly attacked for their peculiar institution; have they forgotten that our ancestors plead for understanding, tried to prove to the nation that they were still good parents, gave our grandmothers the vote to prove that they were not downtrodden, and prayed to the Lord for the protection Celestial marriage against the great out pouring of hatred in the nation?

For those of us who come from beloved and respected ancestors who practiced polygamy, and many who were jailed for it , as was our great-great grandfather, we more than any other group in America should be standing up to defend the right of other Americans to make "non-traditional" choices.

Re: Aaron | 4:44 a.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Unfortunately, yes, there's quite a lot you're missing here. Marriage is a sacred and holy sacrament, divinely instituted by God. As it is His law, He is the one who gets to set the rules. When the leaders of His church on Earth say that passing this law in this country will lead to a slow destruction and ruin, then that is what will happen. As chosen servants of our Heavenly Father, they are privy to information that we are not. When they sign their names to a document in the name of the First Presidency, that carries a heavy weight, equal, or nearly so, to cannonized scripture. Those documents are inspired by revelation from the Lord.

When you keep the commandments, you will prosper in the land. When you turn away from God, you will eventually be destroyed. Until recently, this country has prospered. In the last few decades, as more and more civil laws are passed that are contrary to the laws of God, and more people turn away from Him, there has been a definite downhill slide. This will only steepen and continue unless there is a major shift back to humble righteousness.

Tammy | 10:59 a.m. Oct. 9, 2008

to @Tammy:
Your post shows how ignorant people generally are about marraige and its total sociological importance throughout time. The truth of what I stated is so very obvious that I do not have to defend it.
You say I should have to prove something to you.
I say, Look for yourself.
I would also like to say that Scientology will CURE HOMOSEXUALITY.
Don't believe me, go LOOK FOR YOURSELF.
No one really wants to stay gay.

re re Aaron | 11:25 a.m. Oct. 9, 2008

"marriage is a sacred and holy sacrament"? Are you talking Temple marriages, Church Marriages, Quickie Las Vegas Marriages, Britney Spear's Drunken, 12 hour Just-for-Fun Marriage, Shotgun marriages before a justice of the peace, gay marriages in MA or CA, or maybe just your marriage?

Now or Later | 12:07 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

YOU ALL need to read the Constitution again! There is NOTHING in the Constitution anything like what you people are claiming! Nothing.

What IS in the Constitution, the 9th Amendment, is an explicit statement that any and all "rights" that can possibly be imagined belong by default TO THE PEOPLE. In other words, just because a "right" is NOT specified or enumerated in the Constitution (U.S. or State) does not mean that there is no such right!

Now if you had the capacity to reason logically, you would be able to see that the 9th amendment guarantees that the "right to marry" is a right that belongs to gays and lesbians already and cannot be infringed by any amendment to a state constitution! That is why if Proposition 8 passes, the group in which I am a member will take this fight to the U.S. Supreme Court!

So, you can concede the rights of gays and lesbians now by voting against Proposition 8, or you can concede their rights to marry later when this goes to the US Supreme Court.

You choose how much sacred Tithing money and time you want to waste on this hopeless cause.

LDS4gaymarriage | 2:38 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Re: LDS4gaymarriage - Your user name clearly indicates that you think yourself to be LDS. Anyone who is for this is clearly not actively practicing their religion. The position of the LDS church in relation to the Marriage...you need only look at the Proclamation to the world...that was done when...1995.

LDS - Sorry, but though I agree with the Proc, it is NOT scripture. The prophets have said that scripture supersedes their own words when the 2 are in conflict. D&C 134:4 and 1 Cor. 10:29 condemns those who use their religion as an excuse to infringe upon the rights of others. Gays, at least in CA, **DO** have the right to marry and we're using our religious opinons to prompt us to infringe upon those rights. It's that simple. Since scripture supersedes the Proc., condemning Prop. 8 is the only way to adhere to the Gospel. "My House is a House of order". "Everything is to be done in order".

We can't ignore scripture because we think ignoring it would bring better results. That's called "steadying the ark". The Lord frowns upon that act. repent. Live the Gospel, and vote NO on 8.

LDS4gaymarriage | 2:45 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Truly - I believe in the Church; I believe in the Prophets and Apostles; etc. But there is NO requirement of blind obedience, nor for me to be commanded in all things, nor even for me to AGREE with everything the Church leaders say, for me to be an active, temple-worthy member of the Church! The word "sustain" does NOT mean "agree with and blindly obey". Look up the word "sustain".

LDS - Consider this quote supporting your position - "As a public official in my young manhood, I was given some wise counsel by a Church leader. He said: "The only action we will ever ask you to take is to vote for that which in your heart you feel is right. We would rather many times over that you would make a mistake doing that which you felt was right, than to vote for a policy sake."
(Harold B. Lee, Ye Are the Light of the World: Selected Sermons and Writings of Harold B. Lee [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1974])
Our detractors have no response to D&C 134:4/1 Cor. 10:29. The scriptures say to vote NO. The Spirit confirms it.

Unforeseen consequences | 2:48 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

In Adelaide, Australia, 30 lesbians were artificially inseminated with sperm from one man. Now they get to organize picnics so all the kids get to know their "siblings" and don't end up having incestuous romantic relationships (same age, same community). Unforeseen consequences! This IS a slippery slope.

Anonymous | 3:21 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

RE:Taking state money does not require you to give up you consttitional rights to exercise your religion nor the right of association nor any other constitutionalallly guaranteed right.
LDS - You do NOT have a right to use your religion as an excuse to deny anyone equal treatment in society. Maybe I could join the KKK (a religious institution) so i can keep Blacks out of my store. Does THAT make sense?

RE:The Massechuttetts decision was wrong.
LDS - I've read it several times and it was right on. read it yourself.

RE:You want to preserve your society, your civilization, your country, it's quite clear what direction you must take.
LDS - Do what is right and let the consequences follow.

People say look at other countries, look at MA., no bad thing is happening.But it is like cancer, you don't see it's effect right away, and in some case you see any effect until it's too late, but give it time it WILL destroy the body.
LDS - Then we best start using kindness, gentleness, meekness and love unfeigned, as scripture directs, to persuade people to live righteously. using law is force. Force is of Satan.

LDS4gaymarriage | 3:26 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

CA - This has nothing to do with gay rights. It is a major change in our culture.

LDS - So was giving women and Blacks the right to vote, allowing mixed race mkarriages, etc... All, including gay marriage, have given people more equality and strengthened marriage and democracy.

Anonymous | 4:09 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Personal Identity Matters - Prop 8 does not deprive any basic civil rights. It defines what our society believes the word marriage should be. Please read the pages, and pages, and pages, and pages of comments stating that the gays already get their civil rights with their little civil unions.

LDS - Whites in the South said the same thing about having separate drinking fountains for Blacks and Whites. The water att the Blacks Only drinking fountains was just as cool and clear as the water from the Whites only drinking fountains.

LDS4gaymarriage | 4:21 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

6:59 - All gay people can currently get 'Married'. They simply have to do it the way it old fashioned way...to the opposite sex.

LDS - That's what Iranian government officials tell LDS and other christians..."If you want to build a church, do it like the rest of us - hire an Imam and buy several Korans". 'Why should LDS have "special rights"? "Iran is founded on Shiite principles, why should we tolerate your perversion?"

I'd love to hear how your view is substantially different than Mamoud's.

LDS4gaymarriage | 4:24 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Stand Up - "As for me and my house, we shall follow the Lord" - Joshua 24:15. May we ALL be like Joshua.

LDS - Yep, he was loyal to the Lord's teachings. those teachings are found in the scriptures and the scriptures denounce Prop.8. Be like Joshua and vote No on 8.

LDS4gaymarriage | 4:29 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

One Issue - The church facilitates thousands of adoptions. If marriage is legally recognized for gays and lesbians, the law will require them to either allow them to adopt or open them up to lawsuits from the gay community for not allowing adoptions to gay couples.

LDS - Since LDS Family Services do adoptions in Mass. which already allows gay marriage, without any problems. Your point is baseless.

LDS4gaymarriage | 4:33 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

REALLDS - To LDS and opposed to 8. Quit pretending and take off the mask.

LDS - I'm not pretending. Why should I open myself up to unrighteous dominion? Go to our ORGanization's site and read more. please provide answers to our short summary of why prop. 8 is contrary to the Gospel.

LDS4gaymarriage | 4:43 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Brian in Boise To: LDS4gaymarriage
...If the Dr went to a NEO-Nazi church, and the couple were coming in for fertility treatment...I personally would have no problem with the Dr. refusing to treat them.
LDS - What if he owned a restaurant, a photo studio, a pharmacy, or was an emergency room doc?

BIB - The Methodist church had every right to not allow the use of their property. I think these judges are way out of line.
LDS - They received tax exemption for the property on the condition the public could use it. It wasn't a chapel. It was a gazebo.

BIB - Re: Catholics loosing the funds...I agree the government has the right to require them to adopt to all couples if they are using government $$$. I'm dissappointed though that the government would (not allow them to) refuse to adopt to gays. LDS - Treating everyone equally is a big downer.

BIB - You are clearly not LDS though..You need only read the Proclamation to see how far off base you are.
LDS - Not LDS? My missionary companions, wife, kids would be surprised. The proc isn't scripture. D&C 134:4, 1 Cor. 10:29 are.

Distinctly 4 Man & Wife | 4:47 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

I hope that we ALL remember that God has placed us on this earth as we are. He made men and women. He gave Adam and Eve the responsibility to have children. We are created in the image of God, and as His children are on earth to become more like Him. That is our ultimate purpose, to return to Him, and help those around us to the same.

LDS4gaymarriage | 5:04 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Jerome - There recently was a lawsuit by a student who is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to compel a Christian Fraternity to admit him as a member since The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints considers itself Christian even though the fraternity does not. ..

Reading through the arguments on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints web site the basic concern seems to be that if same sex relationships are designated as marriages then people who oppose same sex marriage would be open to this kind of lawsuit by the people who favor it. These lawsuits could be used to change the notion of marriage just as the influx of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would change the notion of a Christian Fraternity.
LDS - Our ORGanization's website has an essay entitled "Who Gets To Define The Terms 'Marriage' And 'Christian'?" It discusses the validity of using subujective definitions which are thousands of years old to determine who is a authentic Christian or has an authentic marriage. I appreciater your post.

Deb | 5:19 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Wow--you people are NUTS!!! Throwing around little scripture references, etc. Tolerance has become a politically correct RELIGION to you. Listening and following the prophet is what we are supposed to be doing. The church leaders (the First Presidency!!) have told us in California to support Proposition 8. That is what my husband and I are doing. It's not "following blindly". We SEE and are not blinded by political correctness. It's kind of crazy to even have to talk about marriage being between a MAN and a WOMAN!! Four liberal judges overturned proposition 22 which millions of us had already voted for in favor of traditional marriage. We want traditional marriage preserved and the gays can have their civil unions and all their legal rights.
Follow the prophet and read "The Family: A Proclamation to the World". You're either IN or you're OUT!!

to @ marriage not an issue | 5:43 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

We can be certain your not in education in the projects. Your politically correct spew of venom against reflecting your politics is an insult to anyone who works with the most ignored and badly treated groups in America. It's not the gays! It's the children in the slum neighborhoods whose families are non-existant. Only religious groups and large companies have dared to come to our school to help. The gay community has never come- ever- or have they even offered anything. These groups act as a pseudo family structure of a mom and dad to help them navigate to some hope of a life off the streets. Your comments are a smear campaign against what really works to solve so much of the problems in our society i.e. the mom and dad family unit. So many good deonominations have come to give that valuable assistance. After all my years in this inner city school, I truly have found the family is the only hope we have for the future. I pity your miserable mentality of life. It's sick and destructive for our future generations.

Joy Yang | 6:33 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Being able to marry people of the same sex as one is not a civil or human right. It's misleading to equate same-sex marriage to interracial marriage between a man and a woman. We cannot change our gender or race. Many cannot change their feelings of same-sex attraction, but this does not mean that sexual behavior between people of the same sex should be upheld by government. It's also not right to force someone whose moral beliefs cannot condone same-sex sexual behavior to provide services that condone this type of behavior.

Don't call me! | 7:52 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

I'm a Californian. If I get a call regarding Prop 8, I will ask where the caller is from. If it's outside California, I will hang up. Non-California Mormons have NO RIGHT to call me to tell me how to vote - especially for a hateful, bigoted proposition.

Shame on the LDS Church!

LDS4gaymarriage | 9:34 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Heather - Our opinions, beliefs, and values will be outlawed. > Gay marriage is a step towards outlawing Christian teaching on homosexuality. Ake Greene, a Swedish minister, was sentenced to prison for strong anti-homosexual sermons- he was charged with violating the country's hate-crimes law after an anti-gay sermon >. .. we'll see the same here if Prop. 8 fails. > I live with the knowledge that someday down the road, I may have to go to jail for my beliefs. > David Parker in Massachussetts was arrested trespassing after asking school officials to allow his kid to opt-out on homosexual material at school (his right as a parent). He refused to leave until they granted that. >

LDS4gaymarriage | 9:37 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Sad Times - AMEN!!! The persecuted have now become the persecutors. Even Elder Oaks saw the irony in that.

LDS4gaymarriage | 9:50 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Re Re: Aaron - Marriage is a sacred and holy sacrament, divinely instituted by God. As it is His law, He is the one who gets to set the rules. > As chosen servants of our Heavenly Father, they are privy to information that we are not. > When they sign their names to a document in the name of the First Presidency, that carries a heavy weight, equal, or nearly so, to cannonized scripture. Those documents are inspired by revelation from the Lord. >

the gay agenda | 10:01 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Please look into the Illuminati group of 1838 in Germany. There you will see the seed beds of Fascist Beliefs. There you will see the beliefs of the Gay Activist groups. "Putting a group above another even by forcible means. Taking away rights of other groups and individual beliefs." Gays have taken it right out of the play book of other self absorbed groups that stopped at nothing to denegrade others (remember a little fanatic with a bad haircut and small black mustache who hated Jews and religious leaders, and ethnic groups?). Same arguments by gay right activists on this site sound just like the old regime of Germany in 1938. It was suppose to be a new world order of greatness and rights to all.

LDS4gaymarriage | 10:06 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Joy Yang - Being able to marry people of the same sex as one is not a civil or human right. It's misleading to equate same-sex marriage to interracial marriage between a man and a woman.
LDS - No it's not. Both deal with whether society's subjective morals can dictate whom one can marry. Societal norms in the South prevented interracial marriage. majority rules?

JY - We cannot change our gender or race... It's also not right to force someone whose moral beliefs cannot condone same-sex sexual behavior to provide services that condone this type of behavior.
LDS - But we CAN change our religion and our political affiliations. maybe I can keep out Democrats and Jehovah's Witnesses. If they REALLY want to come in, they can CHOOSE to be LDS or a Republican. What's wrong with that? many Pro-8 posters have said that gays still can marry, just marry someone of the opposite sex. They CHOOSE not to. JW's and Democrats likewise CHOOSE not to come in my store because they CHOOSE not to be LDS Republicans. Fair is fair.

LDS4gaymarriage | 10:09 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

Don't Call Me - I'm a Californian. If I get a call regarding Prop 8, I will ask where the caller is from. If it's outside California, I will hang up. Non-California Mormons have NO RIGHT to call me to tell me how to vote - especially for a hateful, bigoted proposition.

LDS - pro-8 people claim that the LDS Church isn't contributing a dime to the campaign. I wonder who is picking up the tab for the phone and utilities in those call centers. I wonder if they're calling from ward buildings.

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