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Dick Harmon: Hats off to Sakoda, Rams, Aggies, Cougs

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bobcat | 11:50 a.m. Oct. 7, 2008

To take a nap: I'm 29 and say "dude" all the time. I don't think I'm 16, and honestly am glad I'm not! I have a job, a 4-year degree, and am successful in my occupation. Although I am not the one that called you dude. I just thought your remark was a little silly. Just like this whole message board.

It's funny how much Utah and BYU fans bicker about nothing. I have absolutely no leaning to one team or the other. I feel I can safely say I am truly non-partial when it comes to these two teams and am an outsider looking in.

Reading this board is like reading my child's opinion on why pizza is better than hamburgers! It's ridiculous. Your arguments about SOS and who beat who are pointless. The only thing that matters, is the record at the end of the season, and for the sake of the game, I hope both teams are undefeated. That will set up a Holy War for the record books!

One good thing about all the silliness here, is it will make the Utah/BYU game just that much better, so with that in mind, argue on dude!

John | 12:01 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

BYU may have had a pretty weak schedule through this week, but I take exception at the rabid Ute fans dismissing BYU as a team.

Two points that speak to BYU being at least a pretty good team:

1) The BYU offense has been putting up some pretty good numbers. Take UCLA. Okay, so the entire UCLA offense was hurt for that game, but BYU put up 59 points on their starters. That's one sign of a pretty good offense.
2) The BYU defense has only allowed 55 points and has scored two shutouts. I don't care who you're playing, shutouts are hard. And remind me, how many shutouts has Utah's vaunted defense had this season?

Play for a national championship | 12:02 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

You mean play for a national championship AGAIN. Oh, and you're right, Utah is so special. When TCU beat a top 5 Oklahoma team two years ago that was nothing. When UNLV beat a top 15 Arizona St. team this season that was nothing. Those are just two examples but you're right, Utah is the only team that has ever done anything for the MWC. What a joke. There are no other fans in the country with a bigger inferiority complex than Ute fans. BYU has won more conference championships during the rebuilding years the past decade than Utah has won during its glory days during that same time period.

Comments continue below

Oregonian | 12:11 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

The MWC has apparently come a long way. BYU and Utah fans are arguing over which BCS teams they beat up on are worse and which ones are dragging down their SOS. Stop and think about that for a minute.

Let's just play football.

To Crowton Lover: | 12:15 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Lets see here, Utah beats Michigan, UNLV, USU, Weber and OSU. Those teams then do the following:
Michigan gets thumped by who...Illinois (AT HOME!)
UNLV loses to who...? Nevada...Holy Cow!
USU and Weber...Nuff said here!
Oregon State...wait n see on this one.

For all the SOS chest thumping going on at the U, it doesn't seem like your opponents have been real high achievers either. Just like U, BYU cannot predict the quality of teams they will play 5 years in advance. So how about we drop the SOS nonsense, and just play the games we are scheduled to play.

That's all we can do anyway right? Btw, BYUs SOS will only get better because we play the same teams from here on out correct?

Gary C. Rowton. | 12:17 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

BYU plays games that matter!!!

Northern Iowa has a phenomenal program. They also come from a state that has schools in BCS conferences. If you look at the BYU Kitties advocates on this blog, you'll undoubtedly reach the conclusion that NIU is simply underrated, and therefore a credible opponent.

If midseason rankings are SO insignificant, why are you Kitty fans touting your current ranking?? Selective application of your own principals, don't you think?

Michael | 12:17 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

3 or 4 weeks in arrow Dick has put Michigan in this article in a negative way. We get it already; Dick wants to make Y fans feel better about their SOS. My question is why be so obvious? Dick's slights would cary more weight if there was atleast the appearance of objectivity.

Gary C. Rowton | 12:19 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I meant "Principles"

Inferiority complex | 12:23 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Yes, we BYU fans have every right to feel inferior to Utah. We envy your 2nd and 3rd place finishes the past two years. We envy your current #13 ranking. We envy how you are the afterthought when national media folks talk about BCS busters (i.e. it is always preceded by: and don't forget about Utah). We envy your amazingly strong SOS, wow it's in the 50's. We envy your 58-10 win over Utah State (but I wonder: if your starters rested most of the second half how did BJ throw a TD mid-way through the 3rd, or Asiata have a rushing TD at the end of the 3rd and mid-way into the 4th? And you wonder why you have injury problems). We do have an inferiority complex: we envy your inferiority.

BlueBoy | 12:28 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

It's pretty simple, you know, how SOS works. When you beat someone, that immediately lowers YOUR SOS because they now have one loss. SO, for BYU's SOS to go up, the teams it beats need to be winning, not losing. Simple as that.

By season's end, everyone will have played, so the SOS at that point in time has SOME meaning---not really a lot because of the convoluted way it's done---but SOME meaning.

Utah's SOS is higher than BYU's right now because they beat a team that beat #1. Over time, that can become of less SOS value, depending on how USC and Oregon State finish up.

Ragging about SOS now is useless. It means nothing for at least another four weeks.

Kinda why we need playoffs, huh? The National Championship should be won on the field, not in peoples' minds and computers. Stupid NCAA!

BlueBoy | 12:30 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

And oh, guess who's SOS will skyrocket over the other when BYU beats Utah in November? Yup!

A lot to feel inferior about | 12:48 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

BYU fans, let's face it: we are completely jealous of Utah.

We wish we could finish 2nd or 3rd in the conference the last 2 years. We wish we could trade our top 10 ranking to be number 13. We wish people would talk about us second when they talk BCS busters THIS YEAR. We wish our head coach would leave for greener pastures as soon as he had the chance. We wish we could leave a team's best WR open on 4th and 18. We wish we could beat Utah State by 48. We wish we would try onside kicks ahead 41-0 in the 3rd quarter, why didn't Bronco take advantage of that opportunity when he had the chance two weeks ago? We wish the most nationally recognized guy on our team was a kicker/punter. We wish our QB would give opponent's free TDs in back-to-back games.

If we have an inferiority complex, it is only envying your inferiority.

Wisconsin overrated | 1:04 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I have to agree with DH on that one. I've been saying it myself since earlier in the season. They were ranked #9 and they had beaten Akron and Marshall, both at home. Then they struggled to beat Fresno St 13-10 and lost to a weak Michigan team and now they've lost to an Ohio St team whose program is also suspect.

They shouldn't have been ranked #9 and now they shouldn't be in the top 25. The love affair and bias of the voters for the BCS schools continues.

(Oops, sorry. Now we're supposed to say "automatic-qualifying BCS schools" and "nonautomatic-qualifying BCS schools" to distinguish them from us peons)

Utefan1997 | 1:12 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I'm sick of routing for utah. We have a quarterback that can't throw more than a quarter and a half a game. We have a coach that whines and pouts more than the players. All our fans care about is being better than BYU and not about being a national power. BYU is getting all the national attention, they're quarterback is 10x better than ours and they just simply get the job done. Life sucks as a ute.

From one who's been there | 1:18 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I played ball for BYU and it's amazing the angst between the fans. I can understand having passion for your team but this gets too personal. Comparing one win vs another means absolutly nothing until they go head to head. Having said that, I must say that Utah has played the tougher schedule YTD. I will say Utah needs to stop the offensive mistakes or they will get beat, which I hope they don't. Johnson needs to cut down on making the same mistakes. The Utes defense has kept them in the game. BYU seems to be prett solid too. I think BYU is more consistant at their skill positions on offense. BYU's defense might not be as good as the U's but they are definately not far behind. Having said that, I hope to see two undefeated top 10 teams battling for a BCS game. At that point go Cougs.

The difference... | 1:19 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

little brother Gary C. Rowton, is that having the best SOS isn't a ranking that they award a trophy for at the end of the season, or, Washington and Oregon State would currently be running neck-and-neck.

Gary ??? | 1:19 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

What's in a name....Gary C. Rowton (Crowton??) Could it be??!! There's something to stick to the roof of our mind!

We need to chill with the mindless banter back and forth and actually cheer our teams on as they go out and play the game. Time will tell, not some prognosticating windbag on ESPN or in this blog. That is why we play the game. I think we are seeing something called parity. It makes the games more fun than ever to watch. Cougs and Utes have bullseyes on their backs and they need to bring their A Game to every contest. In the end we may all have something to cheer about and we can join together to let the BCS know that the MWC can run with the big dogs. Enjoy the moment and stay true to your schools!

Marching Band | 1:24 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

For heaven's sake they are 18-20 years old and in the marching band!! They deserve a little sexual misconduct for a change!

To: Bobcat | 1:34 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Anyone over the age of 16 using the word "Dude" to address someone needs to get a life. You may be 29 years on this earth but your still living in your glory years. Having a 4 year degree doesn't make you mature in your vocabulary. But I am sure that you call your Dad "DUDE" too...

Anonymous | 2:00 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Remember 2007 when Utah played such a difficult OOC schedule:

Oregon State, UCLA, Utah State, Louisville,

and BYU played that cream puff OOC schedule:

Arizona, UCLA, Tulsa, Eastern Washington?

The final 2007 Colley's Matrix SOS for each MWC team looked like this:

UNLV--56
SDSU--57
CSU--62
Wyo--65
Utah--68
BYU--70
TCU--80
AF--83
NM--97

Watch and learn SOS drumbeaters, this year will be no different. By the end of the season, WHEN IT REALLY MATTERS, BYU and Utah will have nearly the same SOS.

The good news for BYU and Utah is that the MWC is currently ranked 5th, ahead of two BCS conferences, by CM.

Rankings Explanation: Each conference is grouped together as one mutual competitive entity. All games are then treated as one conference vs. another. Intra-conference games are ignored. The ratings and rankings are computed by the Colley Matrix method, as usual.

SEC 28-5 0.721585
BIG 12 38-10 0.692217
BIG 10 31-9 0.651364
ACC 28-10 0.632009
MWC 23-11 0.587923
BIG EAST 21-12 0.570250
PAC-10 13-15 0.510470
I-A IND 11-11 0.492292
WAC 16-17 0.457332
CUSA 16-23 0.389695

Bad news for Boise State who is trying to pass BYU and Utah.

RR | 2:17 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

These comments crack me up! Whenever I need a good dosage of medicine, I come here for some laughter. Thanks Mr. Harmon for writing in a way that gets so many responses. I don't think any sports writer gets people to talk about articles like yours.

Yes, WI is overrated. I live on the WI/MN border. When I heard "WI band suspended" and "drinking" in the same sentence, I knew the media got their facts right. With that said, I was hoping to see WI beat OSU, just so we don't have to hear them in the NC title talk any more! They'll fall soon enough.

Hungry | 2:18 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

This is the best restaurant I've ever eaten in.

Conference Rankings | 2:26 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Rank Strength Record College Conference
1 6214 ( 28 - 5) SEC
2 6064 ( 38 - 10) Big 12
3 5741 ( 31 - 9) Big 10
4 5627 ( 28 - 10) ACC
5 5026 ( 21 - 12) Big East
6 4984 ( 23 - 11) MWC
7 4876 ( 13 - 15) PAC 10
8 4531 ( 11 - 11) I-A Independents
9 4010 ( 16 - 17) WAC
10 3964 ( 17 - 27) MAC
11 3750 ( 16 - 23) C-USA

Wisconsin's Band | 2:42 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

should ask the Stanford Tree to join them. They seem to have a lot in common.

Re: Marching Band | 2:50 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

"This one time in band camp..."

To: Inferiority complexes | 2:52 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

As I see it, both sides can go back and forth on who has done what. The great thing about sports is that there is hope every year and every year brings different situations/circumstances.

Isn't it great that some years BYU has a great season and gets the best of Utah? And isn't it great that some years Utah has a great season and gets the best of BYU? We all just HOPE that this is "our" year. How boring would it be if one or the other was absolutely dominant or the "doormat"!

If you post and everyone reading it knows who your allegiance is to, then your post should automatically be discounted. Your bias is just that, bias. In virtually all cases your view will be tainted by the color of glasses through which you see things.

Rankings, SOS, BCS Busting, Hall vs. Johnson, Asiata vs. Unga, Collie vs. Casteel, etc. are all fun to talk about, but let's put everything into context. In the end we are all fortunate that 2 great teams are performing at an optimal level this year. Is this fun or what?

SOS | 3:17 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

SOS only matters if BYU has a higher one. Dont you realize that?

GO RAMS | 3:25 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

We need Colorado State back in the hunt for MWC championships. GO RAMS beat BYU.

From One who's been there.. | 3:31 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Gary C. Rowton here.... no personal attacks intended. I find it just humorous watching how "WERE # 9, WERE #9!" chants dominate the blogs, but when I mention an unbiased ranking (Colley Matrix) all of a sudden, rankings don't matter......at least not yet. Cougar fans bash the U for playing, and not running up the score on Weber State, where the former Ute head man is the coach. Those same fans forget that they played Northern Iowa, who, by no stretch of the imagination is a contender. UCLA? Washington? 0-5? I'm a Ute fan, (not a Whittingham fan), I'm simply poking the kitty in the cage, and enjoying the replies. Have a terrific day! Thanks for the laughs fellas.....

GO RAMS | 3:52 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Nice timely comment. Only four weeks early. Heck, the Rams play the Utes first.

SOS | 3:54 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Only matters at the end of the season. This is a 10K, not a sprint. It doesn't matter whose SOS is stronger in the 5th or 6th lap. What matters is whose SOS and overall ranking is stronger in the final lap. Don't you realize that?

ESPN | 3:59 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

ESPN did a mock BCS standing based on current stats and Utah was ranked 9th while BYU is 12th. It would be nice if BCS rankings weren't the only thing that mattered at the end of the season, but unfortunately they are.

P.S. Michigan will go to a bowl game even if they end up at 2-10, that's just how screwed up things are.

Re:Go rams | 4:08 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

CSU has a football team?

two cents | 4:58 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

to blue boy: your SOS will go up when you play utah period, W-L will have very little effect if any at all on how high BYU SOS jumps from the Utah game, in fact your SOS will jump higher if utah wins cause you would have played a higher ranked team than if they lose, so your point is neutral at best and bordering on crap smack talk. To BYU fans touting there ranking, in the rankings that will matter starting next week utah is projected 9 byu 12, not that it really matters, both teams are ranked high enough that whoever wins will go to a bcs bowl so is good for everyone right now.

Ute in Milwaukee | 5:56 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

The Wisconsin Badgers may not be much at throwing the pigskin - but they can power rush and play defense - and I am not entirely convinced that a certain finesse team from Provo would be able to hold up to their pummeling rush attack for 4 quarters. Go Utes ... and memo to kitties - don't so casually disrespect tough Big 10 squads that you are apparently afraid to play.

BCS SOS BS | 6:10 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

It's amazing how some fans struggle with the relatively simple concept of SOS and BCS rankings.

To simply:

If, BYU wins their next two games vs. New Mexico and TCU, their rankings in the AP, Coaches, and Harris polls WILL go up (because of the certain losses of teams ranked ahead of BYU), as will their SOS.

If, Utah wins their next two games vs. Wyoming and Colorado State, their rankings in the AP, Coaches, and Harris polls WILL probably go up (depending on how far the losing teams ahead of them fall), but Utah's SOS will go down.

Bottom line, when the first official BCS poll is released on October 19th, BYU will be ranked ahead of Utah. Not that it will matter, since their head-to-head matchup on November 22nd will be deciding factor, provided both teams are still undefeated, regardless of which team is ranked higher when the game is played.

Unless BYU, Utah and TCU each knock each other off, and thus finish 1-1 against each other, the BYU or Utah team the goes 2-0 against the other two will get the BCS bowl bid.

SOS will only be a factor in deciding the NC game teams.

Loser Cougs | 6:28 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

After the UTES big win over OSU the phone lines on the Radio shows were ringing off the hook talking about how bad we were and how much better BYU is. Not to say that UTE fans don't do the same but I'm not one of them. Anyway coug fans brought up a good point that you can't compare the two until they play common opponents. Well there you have it, even USU's coach said Utah was tougher to play.

Re: SOS | 3:54PM | 6:47 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

From now on, both Utah and BYU play only conference games --ie at the end their conference SOS will be approximately the same.
So the difference will be non-conference game factor:
Utah BYU

Oregon State > UCLA
Michigan > Washington
Weber State > NIA
USU > USU

before all my little brothers jump on me for saying USU > USU --but think about this...the advantage goes to Utah since the scores are 58-10 vs 34-14.

Prior to Nov 22, one thing that BYU has in its favor is that when the 2 teams play, Utah is a stronger opponent on BYU's schedule than BYU on Utah's schedule (since Utah's SOS is higher than BYU's SOS).

Ofcourse the final score will heavily favor Utah after they win 24-21. Utah's final SOS will be higher than BYU's SOS

SoCalUtahFan

Re: Loser Cougs | 6:59 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

USU's coach also said his team flat out gave up during the Utah game, which would explain the final score. Is it a coincidence that the USU players were more fired up for the BYU game. Makes you wonder which team is respected more and which game they wanted to win more.

Mock BCS | 7:02 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

1. Oklahoma .936
2. Alabama .929
3. Missouri .912
4. Texas .843
5. Penn State .761
6. LSU .752
7. USC .619
8. Vanderbilt .616
9. Utah .615
10. Georgia .602
11. Texas Tech .563
12. BYU .503

Thanks to a schedule-strength ranking in the 100s by most of the computers, BYU appears in the top 18 of only Billingsley's ratings and is outside the Top 25 of both Sagarin's and Massey's.

SoCalUtahFan

Re: Loser Cougs | 6:59PM | 7:06 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

They gave up because they were so out-played by Utah. They were so ...ing frustrated that they realized there was no way they could catch Utah.

On the other hand, they played close to BYU level, so they felt there was a chance to catch and beat BYU.

Simple!

SoCalUtahFan

Ute in Colorado | 7:14 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

I don't understand why everybody is arguing about SOS. It really doesn't matter at this point. If both BYU and Utah can remain undefeated, the only thing that matters is the final score on Nov. 22. We all know who played and beat who. Save your breath until the last game.

Ranking and SOS | 7:16 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Three points:
1. There are a lot more comments from Ute fans about how BYU fans are bragging about their ranking than there are BYU fans ACTUALLY bragging about their ranking.
2. 90% of the comments regarding SOS are from Ute fans bragging about how their SOS is so superior to BYU's.
3. Ute fans seem to think the most appropriate way to rank the teams is to do it based on SOS alone. They think BYU is overrated simply because of the SOS, even if BYU had beaten every team 100-0. I guess beating a mediocre Michigan team by 2 and an average OSU team with a lucky comeback in the last minute means more.

Hey! I Just Figured it all out! | 7:45 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

The reason BYU is ranked higher in the polls, is because they have more votes than Utah! The number of votes is the number next to the team's records!

You are welcome!

SoCalUtahFan | 7:59 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

To Hey! I just figured it all out!

BYU is ranked higher in human polls --human errs.

Look at the mock BCS from ESPN that combines human and computer ranks:

Utah #9
BYU #12

Get it?????

Re: Ute in Milwaukee | 7:59 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

You haven't seen Wisconsin play this year have you? I think you have been watching the 2006 season. I don't think BYU, Utah or Boise State would be afraid to play the Badgerettes. If Wisconsin had played any of the three instead of Fresno State...They would have 3 losses on their schedule (2-3 record) now that's impressive!

To SoCalUtahFan | 8:07 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

"MOCK" being the operative word. Not real, "a mock poll". Get it???????

BYU #8, #9
Utah #13, #14

Still don't get it, do you????????????????????

Re: Hey! SoCal | 8:09 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Computers don't watch football games. You are a nutbag!

mock BCS | 8:14 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Ofcourse, it is not real --because it's not official BCS poll.
If you read the article, they actually followed the BCS formula, so mock in this term is "trying to mimic" the BCS poll --ie if it's available now, this is what it will look like.

Wish I can help you understanding it...but may be it's beyond your comprehension.

SoCalUtahFan

Re: Hey! SoCal | 8:09PM | 8:19 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

And you think most coaches (who are voters) watch all top-25 games to judge the team? Don't know if they have time to read Sunday newspaper for each of top-25 games.
They based their judgement (keyword here) on the score, and may be what they think of the program --therefore, human errs...

SoCalUtahFan

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