Deseret News | Reader comments: Utah Jazz: Competition fierce for 2-guard minutes

Reader comments
Utah Jazz: Competition fierce for 2-guard minutes

Move on | 1:21 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I believe that Harpring has been a great player for the Jazz, but it is time for him, or the team, to move on. Injuries are limiting him and he is limiting the developement of these other guys. It is time for him to retire, while he can still walk, and give his minutes to younger and more athletic players.

Eagle Tail | 7:22 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

One more year Harpring. Often it is well worth keeping a wyile senior citizen player to influence young players. They bring stability, wisdom, experience, insight and in Harpring's case, a proven track record.

Combinations | 7:24 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Ultimately I believe Brewer will start because of his all-around solid play and his defense. I also see CJ getting significantly more minutes this year at the expense of Harpring. The Jazz will play more small ball this year; they can afford to with Millsap and AK's ability to play bigger than than are. AK will play more 4 this year with Millsap playing some 5. The second unit will have Millsap(5), AK(4) (Or Koofus at the 5 and Millsap at the 4), CJ(3), Korver(2), and Price(1). CJ will lead the second team in scoring much like Harpring has in years past. Unfortunately for Harpring, Almond, Knight, and Fes, I just don't see much room for them. If Almond really is that improved, the Jazz will let Korver go after this season, but barring injury, Mo just won't see much PT this year. All in all though, you have to LOVE the depth this year. Unreal!

Comments continue below

The sad thing | 7:32 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

As bad as Hapring is physically, he is still better than all the 2 guards when he steps on the court. If you want to play then beat out those ahead of you. CJ, Morris and Kyle can't do that!!

Jimmy's Mother's Sneakers | 8:05 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I agree that although Sloan loves Harpring, it is not in the best interest of the team to play him 18-20 minutes a game anymore. I am thinking Harpring should be the 11th or 12th man now since his body is so worn down. CJ, Kyle and Morris are due to shine this year and will only be able to do so if Harprings minutes are up for grabs.

Hollywood | 9:00 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

It really is in the best interest of the Jazz to sit Harpring and get these guys as much PT as possible. I see the rotation pretty much staying the same as last season, with Brewer and Korver rotating quarters.

CJ will pick up some minutes at the 3, especially early on with Harpring out. Almond will be the odd man out, but that's o.k., because he has a year of DLeague eligibility left. He won't like it, but I think that's where he's headed until at least mid-season.

Trades or off-season moves will take care of the problem. As the trade deadline approaches, the Jazz will look for a tough veteran defender at the 5, particularly to match up against the Lakers. CJ or Almond + Collins' expiring contract can be part of that deal.

I think the Jazz will make Korver a good offer - if he opts out - but they can't afford to overpay. Kyle's worth 3-4 wins because of his ability to hit FT's down the stretch. Or, if behind, he can bring the team back in a hurry with his 3's. Those are skills that neither Brewer nor CJ nor Almond have.

Jazz Fan (The Original) | 9:10 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Why don't we get articles in the local rags about the other teams in the NBA? This area is so campy. I want to hear about other team rosters. The Jazz are not a title contender with all the no names they have in camp. They are a weak team on both ends of the floor. If Kirilenko wasn't free lancing the passing lanes, they would be in deep stuff on defense. This is a nice team, and the only team in the area to watch with no NFL, NHL, MLB teams. What is going to happend when the Larry H. Miller interests decide to dump the franchise? We need more NBA teams in the league so everyone coming out of high school has an opportunity to play in the league! Ha, ha!!!!!!! Seriously, there are too many franchises, and with all the Euro players, there are fewer and fewer jobs available for homegrown players.

Tommy K | 9:23 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

yea I agree with most peeps up here. I think Harping should get less minutes and let CJ mile come off the bench instead, we develo mile and with thatI hope he plays up to his contract. sloan please play mile and less harping.

Toughness & Heart | 9:44 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Harpring brings toughness and heart to the team. It is something where his presence can influence other players. Williams and Milsap are really the only other players on the team that exhibit it at times. Brewer is getting there and AK fades in and out.

Don't mistake playing hard for having toughness and heart. Most of the Jazz players play hard, they just lack that "hate to lose" toughness that Harpring has.

Trade Kyle | 9:49 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Maybe after the season has begun so other teams can forget what he looked like in the playoffs, the Jazz needs to trade Kyle Korver. Perhaps it would make sense to use him as part of a bigger trade involving Okur or Boozer for a high profile center. Orlando and Toronto both seem to be willing to trade any real talent they ever luck into getting.

ZEKE | 10:07 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

What`s with the beat up on Harpring comments? No body and I mean no body plays harder than Matt Harpring. He comes in and hits some shots and plays hard nose defence on the player he is guarding. What players show in training camp usually does`nt so up when they get into a game. If they want Matt`s time they are going to have to show they are better during the game.

Matt | 10:28 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I can't believe the Harpring comments I'm reading... his body is worn down??? Do you watch any Jazz games? If he is in pain, he definitely doesn't play like he's in pain. Harpring is a warrior, he can't guard the quicker 2 guards, but he plays huge minutes.

Although the Jazz have talent at the 2 and 3 positions, they are still one of the weakest teams at this position. Just look at the rest of the league. Kobe, Arenas, McGrady, Lewis, Redd, Finley, Allen, Barbosa, Ginobli, Gordon... I could go on! I love Korver and Brewer, and I have huge hopes for Miles, but I don't think the Jazz are all that deep at this position.

That being said, I think Korver is gonna tear it up this year and if Brewer starts hitting his jump shot he has the potential to be listed with those names above.

My Vote. | 10:46 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

After watching the srimage, I'd say it's Brewer 1, Korver 2, Miles 3 and Almond 4. Brewer looks better than last year, he killed Kover and miles head to head. CJ still hasn't learned how to hit a floater/short jumpshot after getting by his guy and Almond kept loosing his grip on the ball and wasn't very good on D. It was only one practice, however, I wasn't that impressed with Almond. If you are looking for improvement from the Jazz. You have to hope Brewer,Milsap and D-will, will lead the way. And if Koufos beats out Collins for back up minutes that would be a good thing as well. Harpring doesn't look like he will be back until at least December..by then we will see if CJ is ready.....Fess and Almond? back to the D-league...

Why Harpring? | 11:07 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

All of you guys do realize that Harpring is a small forward, not a 2 guard...so all of these Harpring comments are completely moot. I realize its a mostly similar position, but come on, the article doesn't even mention him. Even if he retires, the Jazz don't have another true SF besides AK, which means they'd just pick someone else up. CJ, Korver, and Mo can all switch up between the 2 and 3, but none of them are a true 3.

Jerry Sloan positive? | 11:33 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

It always worries me when Jerry starts to hand out praise. I like the critical Jerry better than the satisfied Jerry.

magnus | 12:14 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I agree with the Harpring chatter, even though I love Harp, that guy is a warrior! I think he is a great influence and a good guy to have a round but I'd say about 10 minutes a game sounds right.

However I don't think CJ should get all of his minutes at the 3, I think they should play Brewer there more and give CJ more minutes at the 2. Brewer is bigger, stronger, and better around the basket while CJ does his best work from the perimeter.

I also hope that the young guys step up and Collins never sees the court this season. Collins is a great guy but he is literally one of the least effective players in the league (see Hollingers efficiency stats), he's not a great defender, he's not huge or athletic, offensively he may as well be a ghost, and he's certainly not an "enforcer". There are litterally 100's of guys available for alot less than $2 Mil who could give you more than what he brings to the table.

my thoughts | 12:24 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Collins does not play. Koufos needs to beat out Millsap to get minutes - not Collins. Millsap demands minutes and Sloan began playing him behind Okur as a back-up center. That happened right around the time we got Korver. I wonder why no one mentions that for a reason the Jazz turned their season around. Also - Okur finally overcame a nagging injury around that time. Anyway, all I heard for the last 6 months is that we need to trade Collins. Collins Sucks - no one wants him. We can't get anything for him.

PurplePeopleEater | 12:45 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

All Jerry's doing by praising Brewer so much is to just reinforce to the other players what he expects of them: WORK!

Jerry likes hard workers because he knows that hard work creates improvement, and that's all you can ask of any NBA player is to keep improving.

Jerry's praise of Brewer, though sincere and warranted, is really a jab at some of the other players. Not all, because many did improve this off season.

The Jazz' weakest position is small forward (Harpring and AK's), not because neither defends well, because they do, but because that's all we really have there are those two.

Sure, 2-G is weak compared to the likes of Kobe, but not that many teams have Kobe-quality 2's. What's more important is interior defense (BOOZ!).

bill dalew | 12:56 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I honestly think Utah's best lineup would be to play Brewer and Korver together. They complement each other perfectly. I don't know that they need to start that way, but they should definitely be finishing games that way. Also, the Harpring comments have merrit, he plays hard, but he also fouls like crazy, giving up tons of points from the free throw line. At some point you've got to develop your young talent.

Moto X | 1:57 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I will give Harp his due and there is nothing I enjoy much more than watching Harp punish players on offense AND defense. All that being said, Harp has slowed a step and he fouls too much and fouls in some stupid situations because he can't move his feet fast enough.

He is and has been an amazing player for the Jazz. Coming back from his surgeries year after year and playing through alot of pain. Not many in this franchise or league have the toughness and fortitude he has shown.

Today's NBA demands more speed and athleticism though and that may cost Matt some minutes that go to other players this year.

re: Matt

You are correct we do not have the "superstar" at the 2 but those teams have MAJOR drop-off when they step off the floor--they are the go-to guys on their team. That is Deron and Booz for us.

At the 2 position we have a very athletic starter and a deadly shooter as a back up. Then CJ after that. That affords us alot of "situational/matchup flexibility" that other teams simply do not have. I would say we have fairly good depth at 2.

Re: Why Harpring? | 1:58 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Umm AK isnt a true 3 either. The 2 and 3 spot our 100% similar in the Jazz offense.

Ronnie Brewer is more of a natural 3 then AK. Korver played the 3 till he came to Utah.

Matt Harpring might have the strength at SF, but he has the speed of a PF.

CJ, Brewer and Korver are all capable of playing the 3 for Utah, they wouldnt need to acquire anyone. If Harpring left CJ would take his minutes, much like he did for AK and Harpring all of last yr.

Re: My Vote | 2:54 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Unbelievable. Do you really think you can rate all these guys after a single scrimmage. I'm tired of people saying what CJ can't do. YOU HAVEN'T SEEN HIM ENOUGH YET TO JUDGE! CJ is only 21 years old... way younger than the other 2 young two guards. The future of the jazz is Ronnie at three and CJ at two. CJ will surprise you this year. Don't be surprised if he plays 20 minutes per night

CJ fan! | 2:59 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Look, Harpring can play as hard and as tough as he wants.. but the fact remains, he just isn't fast enough and doesnt have enough talent to hang. We should have been playing CJ the majority of Harps minutes last year! He was turrible, turrible, turrible in the playoffs.. If the Jazz play CJ we will win 3-5 more games than if we play Harp.

Agree with Bill | 3:09 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Play Korver at 2 on offense and 3 on defense. Play Brewer at 3 on offense and 2 on defense.

With the reputation he began to build for himself as a defender last year (especially in playoffs), Brew is on path to be a defensive star in the NBA. He has the long arms, big hands, hops, quickness and speed to defend the likes of Kobe better than anyone else in the NBA. However, Brew's a bit of an offensive liability in an offense originally designed to have have a sharp-shooting 2 like Hornacek or Griffith. Playing Korver at that 2 on offense covers that liability--so long as the opposing 3 isn't too big or too quick for Korver. Fortunately, Korver can defend a lot of opposing 3s.

In situations when Korver can't defend the opposing 3, then you keep AK at the 3 and play CJ at 2, since CJ can both shoot and defend reasonably well. CJ and AK should be played together routinely, just like Kover and Brewer.

Small Ball | 4:00 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

It appear the Jazz are the new Golden State Warriors. The real problem is the bigs aren't getting it done.Boozer was a no show for the playoffs. Okur is small ball in a big body. Sloan is making the right move by going small, but only out of desparation. Small ball will win alot of regular season games, but what about the playoffs. Sure Golden State beat Dallas 2 years ago, but then look what happened. The Jazz would gladly give up two of these guys for a quality big man.

My Vote:Re My Vote. | 4:44 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I'm not rating these guys just on one practice, however, if you think my rating is off....tell me why? you can't! Nothing has changed from last year from what I've seen. As far as CJ goes....He made that same mistake twice during the scrimmage (not pulling up for a short jumper) Young guys think they can make a highlight play every time down the court instead of making the basic play. CJ hasn't done enough at this point to beat out Korver for the back up position at the 3 or the two. Brewer or Korver should get most of those minutes. CJ needs to prove he deserves to play not just get minutes for the sake of his contract. CJ will get his chances. I think he is improving just not at the rate Brewer is. We will see where CJ is at the end of the year and if the Jazz think he is good enough to let Korver walk. Right now, I think my vote is right Brewer,Korver,Cj in that order.

Experts? | 4:59 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

It seems that everybody is the expert...It bugs me when people develop these insane opinions based on a couple of practices and scrimmages. What do you know that Jerry and the coaching staff don't?

Don't bury Harping yet | 10:02 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

One of the Jazz's weakness has been toughness, when a team is beating up on the jazz sloan sends in Harping to play some physical"not dirty" rough and tumble basketball, no wonder he is always injured he gives up his body. I like his 15-17 foot jumper and his moxey. I know the more athletic players are more enjoyable to watch but this is basketball not ballet. Sometimes alittle brutal. The Jazz player's problem on the road is that when they get punched in the mouth a few times they roll over and play dead.

shan | 10:15 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

dude it makes me ill to see all these know it alls with their solutions...you guys are just stans who fill the seats and bump the ratings, remember that and also remember one other thing while you rave and rant, a roach can live for nine days without its head but you cant...

CJ is nothing special...Ronnie Brewer is the best at the 2 guard position and Kyle is good to have fresh at the end of games for his free throw %. Mo Almond has the purest shooter form besides DWill and as far as Harpring goes he is our hustler and every team needs one of those....

and wut??? Go jazz from the only stan who knows the deal...

Jazz Fan | 11:55 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

All i have to say is this is the year that we need to win the championship. We have all the guys that we need and like many have pointed out, this could be the last year that this group of guys are all playing on the same team.
LET'S GO JAZZ!

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