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LDS general conference: Stand fast, love others
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How lovely | 2:12 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Could there be better advice than this? The world would be a much better place
if this advice were heeded by those who claim to believe in Christ and his
teachings. What could be more important than love, compassion, and charity? :)
Working | 2:25 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I appreciate the opportunity to read this, as I cannot listen or watch
conference this weekend. Thanks, DesNews, for the life line!
D&C 71:7-10 | 4:00 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Sounds like the Words of the Lord don't mean anything anymore.
D&C 71: 7-10
7 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest.
8 Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord.
9 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you�there is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper;
10 And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in mine own due time.
Instead of challenging enemies, the Mormons are just supposed to "bear their testimony" sweetly, instead of facing and considering TRUTH
D&C 71: 7-10
7 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest.
8 Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord.
9 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you�there is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper;
10 And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in mine own due time.
Instead of challenging enemies, the Mormons are just supposed to "bear their testimony" sweetly, instead of facing and considering TRUTH
Comments continue below
RE: D&C 71:7-10 | 4:23 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
What could possibly confound an enemy more than "sweetly" testifying
of TRUTH? Isn't it the soft answer that turns away wrath? Seems to me
like the Words of the Lord are the same yesterday, today, and forever. The
interpretations of men apparently are not so consistent.
Anonymous | 5:03 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I don't remember in any circunstance the Lord answering to pharisees and
scribes in other way than sweetly. For LDS, their testimonies are about the
truth of the gospel, so in other words, it is sweetly testifying about the
truth.
Enemy?? | 5:36 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
So now anyone with a small opposing view is an enemy? Knocking on other folks
doors to tell them that their religion is not true is not provoking a religious
discussion? Please help me understand.
Sleuth | 5:44 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I believe the more serious challenge for memebers than oppositional ideological
critics and media contenderrs against the Church, is the uninspired,
apathetical, prideful manner in which many life-time members inadvertantly and
deliberately disregard other fellow members, new ward move-ins, new members and
investigators, as unimportant and not mattering. Rote membership and attendance
at meetings and functions, tithing and proping up the statistical activity
"numbers" alone are
not capable of having the desired result or effect
to remove the more serious challenge. People need to matter here on earth and not have to wait until they go to heaven before they matter. The absence of stable, valued, recuring, sincere meaningful associations together at the ward levels will defeat any gains achieved repudiating ideologicaly oppositional critics. Perhaps this dysfunction would help explain the inactivity and progress of existing members and the 75% attrition rate of new members. Christ certainly taught that assicating together is the mother of all progress.
not capable of having the desired result or effect
to remove the more serious challenge. People need to matter here on earth and not have to wait until they go to heaven before they matter. The absence of stable, valued, recuring, sincere meaningful associations together at the ward levels will defeat any gains achieved repudiating ideologicaly oppositional critics. Perhaps this dysfunction would help explain the inactivity and progress of existing members and the 75% attrition rate of new members. Christ certainly taught that assicating together is the mother of all progress.
Rich | 6:28 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Do critics ever tell the truth or is everything they say just lies?
Jenny | 7:36 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Wow after reading these comments (and the story) why would anyone investigate.
Certainly, we have a pretty screwd up culture and I could go on and on. This
just makes me a little sad but I through the comments I can see why some of my
family members have left the Church.
Nebraksa Sister | 7:40 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
We are so thrilled to hear the announcement of a Temple in Kansas City!
It's about time! We waited 150plus years to get one here in Omaha! We are
happy our family and friends in KC won't have to travel so far to attend.
Thanks!
mc | 8:06 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Yes, critics do tell the truth. I hope we as members of the church can be open
to those who have differing view and learn from them. I hope we can truly look
upon difference as an opportunity to learn and grow.
Positive | 9:07 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
The messages summarized in this article are about as positive, uplifting and
non-confrontational as anyone can imagine. The fact that some of you have found
a way to content with that shows that nothing we do as LDS would ever persuade
you; hence the counsel to not contend with you. It wastes our time and yours.
There are thousands who are searching for the Truth who would accept the message
if we took the time to share it with them. We should spend our time and effort
sharing the message with them rather than contending with people like those
posting negative comments above. Such will find fault no matter what we do or
say. Let's spend our time searching out those who are themselves searching
for the Truth!
Seattle LDS | 9:39 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I think the point is nothing good ever comes from contention. I remember a few
years ago, a good friend decided to use what he'd learned at one of these
"retreats" having something to do with "how to convert a
Mormon." He went on the attack. It got very heated and, needless to say,
we are no longer friends.
In hindsight, I should have just told him he was welcome to his beliefs and I had mine and I'd like to leave it at that. I'm not sure he would have left it alone, but I do know that once it got contentious, there was nothing to be gained for either side.
Debating merely entrenches both sides more deeply into their positions. My discussions with friends who were genuinely interested in what I believe have been very positive.
An earlier post asked what we expect when we knock on doors to tell people their religion is wrong. That is not why I knocked on doors. We were able to find many who were sincerely looking.
In hindsight, I should have just told him he was welcome to his beliefs and I had mine and I'd like to leave it at that. I'm not sure he would have left it alone, but I do know that once it got contentious, there was nothing to be gained for either side.
Debating merely entrenches both sides more deeply into their positions. My discussions with friends who were genuinely interested in what I believe have been very positive.
An earlier post asked what we expect when we knock on doors to tell people their religion is wrong. That is not why I knocked on doors. We were able to find many who were sincerely looking.
I give up | 9:44 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Positive,
You are not positive. You are insular and thus you probably won't understand. Keep being "positive".
You are not positive. You are insular and thus you probably won't understand. Keep being "positive".
Louis | 10:02 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Positive @ 9:07, that is just WOW! Let us pick up the easy pickins (?) but let
those whom deny and argue just lye in the wind. Not very Christ-like and pretty
weak by standards. Pick, it up Mr. Positive and become a better reflection on
the Church and Jesus Christ. PS you and most whom argue in the name of the
Church are hurting us more than you are helping. The Deseret News blogs make a
mockery of the LDS people!
Re: mc | 10:32 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Important to point out that SOME critics tell the truth sometimes. There may be
those whose feelings we've hurt and that's something we can work
on.
But many other critics are simply unhappy people, not content to live their lives the way they have chosen, but out to drag others down with them. They linger on insignificant bits of obscure information, certain that if a member of the Church will just "listen with an open mind," they will see "the truth."
I guess I have never understood the positive goals of the anti-LDS (what they are). If they do not like the church, why not leave it behind and start a new life, rather than spend so much time and effort trying to sway others and disprove what can not be disproved? Wouldn't it be a better life to embrace and live what one believes than spend so much time on what one doesn't believe?
But many other critics are simply unhappy people, not content to live their lives the way they have chosen, but out to drag others down with them. They linger on insignificant bits of obscure information, certain that if a member of the Church will just "listen with an open mind," they will see "the truth."
I guess I have never understood the positive goals of the anti-LDS (what they are). If they do not like the church, why not leave it behind and start a new life, rather than spend so much time and effort trying to sway others and disprove what can not be disproved? Wouldn't it be a better life to embrace and live what one believes than spend so much time on what one doesn't believe?
El Paso | 10:55 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I love the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I found this conference
to be one of the most inspiring that I've viewed. The power of the Holy
Spirit reached into my heart as I listened to the inspired messages to follow
the Savior, to be better members, more loving families, kinder and more caring
neighbors and more involved citizens. I have come away with a desire to do more
in my life to follow Jesus Christ.
Anonymous | 11:04 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
The music and talks were very inspiring! I wish I could have been there in
person.
To those who left the Church | 11:58 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008
As a parent of a child who turned away from something that I treasure most
dearly, it saddens me to hear mean comments. It isn't just that my child
left the church, my child has turned away from Christianity, that really tears
at my heart. When I read some of the comments of those who have negative
feelings towards the church, I wonder, do they have parents or siblings or
cousins or grand parents that hurt, because they left something that their
family members feel so strongly about? Thank heavens my child doesn't want
to be reading a conservative paper, and reads the Tribune and makes comments
there. If my child ever came here and ripped on the church, it would open up
the sadness I felt when it all began. So please, you that have left the church,
realize that your words are being said in a way to your family members that are
in the church. You have your agency, that is respected, but we have ours and
desire to express ourselves without getting into fights here. Maybe you need to
do like my child does and read a paper that is more fitting to your ideas.
RE: Enemy?? | 12:47 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
No. And yes, that could provoke a religious discusion. At any rate,
"Knocking on other folks doors to tell them that their religion is not
true" would never be a good idea or in the spirit of the LDS faith.
Knocking on other folks doors to share a spirtual message should be what LDS
missionaries/members are doing. Someone may later decide their current religion
isn't true as a logical byproduct of their choice to believe in the LDS
faith due to that initial discussion. This is an important freedom that each
party has the right to exercise.
This is so sad... | 4:03 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
In a world where we seek peace and understanding, we come here to a forum where
we find brother against brother, and sister against sister. Isn't this
what we in the world are trying to fight against? Why is it that so many just
love to contend? I know there is only one author of that...and I think you do
too. Satan loves it when we just sit here and bad talk one another, or one
another's faith.
Why does it matter if you are no longer interested, left the church or disagree. Why bring up hard and unkind feelings?
This is what I do not understand. SO many of you make this out to be a trial. If this is what you desire, there are plenty of court rooms in the country where you can sit and watch people argue about who was right and who was wrong.
In the Conference today...peace and love were spoken of and how to be more kind and loving and of service...to emulate the Savior. I guess I should have known...that coming here to the Deseret news would bring this...as it goes...There is opposition in ALL things. Makes the testimony grow stronger.
Why does it matter if you are no longer interested, left the church or disagree. Why bring up hard and unkind feelings?
This is what I do not understand. SO many of you make this out to be a trial. If this is what you desire, there are plenty of court rooms in the country where you can sit and watch people argue about who was right and who was wrong.
In the Conference today...peace and love were spoken of and how to be more kind and loving and of service...to emulate the Savior. I guess I should have known...that coming here to the Deseret news would bring this...as it goes...There is opposition in ALL things. Makes the testimony grow stronger.
oldman | 4:23 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
Lip service anyone? Same trite comments and no change.
awesomeron | 4:32 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
I either watched, or attended all 10 hours. The time really went by fast. I have
it on tape for the parts I slept through. Not on purpose but it is so relaxing
and the music is so good. I enjoyed the Choirs. I did notice some Black Women in
the Tabernacle Choir, some young black kids in the Kidde Choir. Guess who's
coming to Dinner some day.
I am just old and I know everyone is equal and it does not matter any more who you merry as long as its in the Faith Group and in The Temple. Remember that the Dinner happens at both houses.
My Son 19, and my Grandson attended Priesthood Meeting with me, and I was happy. I put aside my issues as much as I could just didn�t say much, hi to my home teaching partner and another old friend, and a conversation with my High Priest Group Leader about the View from the Stake Center. The Building is High on a Hill and the Parking is tiered X 5 and you can see Pearl Harbor, Downtown, and all the way to Diamond Head, The View Beyond Rocks. Good, Conference, Vibrations, and Hope.
I am just old and I know everyone is equal and it does not matter any more who you merry as long as its in the Faith Group and in The Temple. Remember that the Dinner happens at both houses.
My Son 19, and my Grandson attended Priesthood Meeting with me, and I was happy. I put aside my issues as much as I could just didn�t say much, hi to my home teaching partner and another old friend, and a conversation with my High Priest Group Leader about the View from the Stake Center. The Building is High on a Hill and the Parking is tiered X 5 and you can see Pearl Harbor, Downtown, and all the way to Diamond Head, The View Beyond Rocks. Good, Conference, Vibrations, and Hope.
shirley | 5:01 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
I loved this article and am grateful it is shared and appreciated by many. Life
is good because of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I know this with all my being. I
will be a better person because of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Have a
wonderful day.
Sleuth | 5:02 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
Who in the Church doesn't know that contention with unbelievers is counter
productive? That's bone head. Moreover, can someone direct me to find the
"negative" comments above?
Above, I see feelings and opinions expressed; nothing overwhelming or noteworthy negative. Some are testimony driven and others testimoniless. What do those with testimoies expect of those without testimonies; and vice versa? It would be ironic that an individual with a testimony of the Restroed Gospel and Church would expect one without to know of its truthfullness.
My point above is not negative. I am merely saying that if members cannot treat fellow existing members with love, without respect of persons, reinforcing in each and everyone meaningfuly that they too matter, so that all enjoy that they have a worth and are included in the day-to-day Church Ward operations, activites and fellowshipping, then what victory is had overcoming ideological critics and media opponents? In the end, few will remain to enjoy the Church's truthfulness.
Personally, I expect non-believers to be negative md sleptical. If the world persecuted the Savior, why not me? After all, I am his follower.
Above, I see feelings and opinions expressed; nothing overwhelming or noteworthy negative. Some are testimony driven and others testimoniless. What do those with testimoies expect of those without testimonies; and vice versa? It would be ironic that an individual with a testimony of the Restroed Gospel and Church would expect one without to know of its truthfullness.
My point above is not negative. I am merely saying that if members cannot treat fellow existing members with love, without respect of persons, reinforcing in each and everyone meaningfuly that they too matter, so that all enjoy that they have a worth and are included in the day-to-day Church Ward operations, activites and fellowshipping, then what victory is had overcoming ideological critics and media opponents? In the end, few will remain to enjoy the Church's truthfulness.
Personally, I expect non-believers to be negative md sleptical. If the world persecuted the Savior, why not me? After all, I am his follower.
John | 5:07 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
I'm with Louis. These blogs do make us LDS look like whining nitpickers
sometimes.
I have served 2 full-time missions and 5 part-time. Five of my kids have left the church. I continue to be a diligent contributor.
Was I wrong often? Yes!
Do they and I hurt? Yes!
Is an aggressive approach going to help me and my kids to heal? No!
The words of today's latter-day prophets are sound and "true" counsel for us all.
I have served 2 full-time missions and 5 part-time. Five of my kids have left the church. I continue to be a diligent contributor.
Was I wrong often? Yes!
Do they and I hurt? Yes!
Is an aggressive approach going to help me and my kids to heal? No!
The words of today's latter-day prophets are sound and "true" counsel for us all.
Conference was very uplifting | 5:45 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
It was so great to hear messages of hope and peace. There is so much negativity
in communication these days, that is mistakenly cloaked as news, which I feel is
a result of 24/7 availability to information. It is uplifting for anyone in the
world to hear that people everywhere can obtain emotional and spiritual strength
to solve their problems and live their lives.
Konner | 5:50 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
Couldn't we all agree that if everyone followed the 10 Commandments and the
Sermon on the Mount, the world would be a much better place? Why not spend more
time focusing on the things we have in common and less time on the things over
which we disagree, regardless of what brand of Christianity you choose to
embrace.
Robert | 6:14 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
As a non-Mormon and profound admirer of the Church, the words of D&C71:7
resonate in my heart. My many Mormon friends courageously live the prophesy; I
join them in challenging the viciousness displayed publicly by so many who are
ignorant of the true mission of the Church.
John Robert Mallernee | 6:26 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
Brothers and Sisters:
Yes, even an adverse news report about our Church can be a positive missionary opportunity.
As they've long said in Hollywood, it doesn't matter whether it's good publicity or bad publicity, just so long as they spell the name correctly.
For example, the recent negative comments arising from news reports about polygamists provoked a lot of inquiries about our Church.
With the divinely inspired creation of the Internet, each of us can now experience a multitude of opportunities to answer questions and share our testimonies.
*********
Note to Working:
You can still watch all of the sessions of General Conference on your computer.
Just go to the web site of BYU Television.
That's where I watch Church programming from my room here at the Ol' Soldiers' Home in Washington, D.C.
*********
Note to Anonymous:
Read our scriptures.
Our Lord did NOT always respond "sweetly" to the Pharisees and Sadduccees.
He referred to them as "serpents" and a "generation of vipers".
Remember when He physically drove the moneychangers from the Temple, and overturned their tables?
**********
Thank you.
John Robert Mallernee
Official Bard of Clan Henderson
Armed Forces Retirement Home
Washington, D.C. 20011-8400
Yes, even an adverse news report about our Church can be a positive missionary opportunity.
As they've long said in Hollywood, it doesn't matter whether it's good publicity or bad publicity, just so long as they spell the name correctly.
For example, the recent negative comments arising from news reports about polygamists provoked a lot of inquiries about our Church.
With the divinely inspired creation of the Internet, each of us can now experience a multitude of opportunities to answer questions and share our testimonies.
*********
Note to Working:
You can still watch all of the sessions of General Conference on your computer.
Just go to the web site of BYU Television.
That's where I watch Church programming from my room here at the Ol' Soldiers' Home in Washington, D.C.
*********
Note to Anonymous:
Read our scriptures.
Our Lord did NOT always respond "sweetly" to the Pharisees and Sadduccees.
He referred to them as "serpents" and a "generation of vipers".
Remember when He physically drove the moneychangers from the Temple, and overturned their tables?
**********
Thank you.
John Robert Mallernee
Official Bard of Clan Henderson
Armed Forces Retirement Home
Washington, D.C. 20011-8400
"Sweet" | 6:31 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
I love the Church, but not everything about it is "sweet,"
"positive" or "uplifting." Ugh, get a grip. I cannot see
how avowed truth seekers constantly look away from the truth.
troy philippines | 7:21 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
thank you for all of this comments.but there is one thing i can say,i love this
church, i know that we have a prophet of today who is not just a statue but in a
living person who guides us as members of the church.and about the conference,
the conference is a very special moment to raise our hands in sustaining the
prophet of today.to all the people who are criticizing the church where i
belong,thats you believe,but we believe in the first and second commandments,to
love god and to love my neighbor.i know that this church is true no doubt about
it.
Richard | 7:23 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
"Sweet" pretty much stated my thinking. I am a lifelong member,
served a mission, served in a bishopric and in stake positions. My ancestors
crossed the plains. But, I am no longer active. Truth is very important to me
and I see a church that did not follow the counsel of Spencer W. Kimball when he
warned against the sin of Idolatry.
The church membership by his standard has become an idolatrous people. And like the scribes, Pharasees and Nephites of old, they don't see it in themselves. There is a term for it. It is called Cognitive Dissonance. When you think you are right nothing will convince you otherwise, no matter how wrong you are and no matter how strong the evidence.
As Jesus said in Matt 23. "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."
Furthermore he said(it is so evident in the LDS political thinking), "Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel."
It happened in times of old. We have been warned it could happen today. It is happening.
The church membership by his standard has become an idolatrous people. And like the scribes, Pharasees and Nephites of old, they don't see it in themselves. There is a term for it. It is called Cognitive Dissonance. When you think you are right nothing will convince you otherwise, no matter how wrong you are and no matter how strong the evidence.
As Jesus said in Matt 23. "All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."
Furthermore he said(it is so evident in the LDS political thinking), "Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel."
It happened in times of old. We have been warned it could happen today. It is happening.
Threw us a bone | 7:45 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
Did I hear President Monson say "Obey the laws of the land where you
live"?
Well, that's a start.
I'm sure he was just talking about stop signs and speed limits; not immigration laws.
Well, that's a start.
I'm sure he was just talking about stop signs and speed limits; not immigration laws.
indifferent | 8:03 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
I have been happily inactive for almost 10 years now and I like it that way and
I'm guessing so does the church cause ain't nobody come knocking on my
door in those 10 years... I think it would be so frustrating to be a prophet to
say the same thing over and over and have 11 million people ignore you time and
time again.
Also, if any member has been reading their scriptures, they'd notice a trend... the downfall of God's people through out time doesn't come from outside, but from within... from even the most devout followers.
Also, if any member has been reading their scriptures, they'd notice a trend... the downfall of God's people through out time doesn't come from outside, but from within... from even the most devout followers.
Truth | 8:03 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
As a long time convert to the LDS Church I am constantly remembering that there
is much truth out there shared by different faiths and different peoples. It is
not totally exclusive to our Church, we just believe we have more! As the only
part of our family that ever joined the Church we continue to have a loving
relationship with our relatives, and are all mutually respectful of each
other.
If all the members of the Church were perfect it would be a lot easier for all of us, but, alas, it is not to be. Contention is never of the Lord. Pride is a sin. Christ-like behavior is the way we are all supposed to be trying for.
For those who have been hurt or offended by some in the Church, I am so sorry. I always remember a wise old Mission President in England being the first to tell me that the Church is perfect, the members are not - and until they are we will continue to build buildings, teach and share with each other.
Whether or not we agree on any or all of the doctrines of the Church, let us respect each other.
If all the members of the Church were perfect it would be a lot easier for all of us, but, alas, it is not to be. Contention is never of the Lord. Pride is a sin. Christ-like behavior is the way we are all supposed to be trying for.
For those who have been hurt or offended by some in the Church, I am so sorry. I always remember a wise old Mission President in England being the first to tell me that the Church is perfect, the members are not - and until they are we will continue to build buildings, teach and share with each other.
Whether or not we agree on any or all of the doctrines of the Church, let us respect each other.
John-Dude | 8:09 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
I'm a decade-long Church member, but I was baptized single when I was 30.
The missionaries never told me what a cultural stigma I'd have to face as a
single man over 30 in the Church. I faced it working for the LDS Church Offices.
I faced it trying to find housing with roomates (no, we are not gay). I faced it
by being forced out of activities that were open to me when I first joined the
Church, because I'd turned a certain age, and people just assume I'm
some kind of "risk" if I remain unmarried. I even faced it in the
temple, where I worked as a veil worker: the prejudice is deep, and
humility/charity are errant. Few in this culture "remember Him" when
it comes to assigning motivations to those around them. I was amazed that NO ONE
could understand that growing up in "the world" could leave scars that
would take time and trust to overcome and unwind. I'm far from unwilling to
marry. However, my trust issues have gotten worse facing this unwarranted
ostracization in/by the Church, and there's no one to talk to when the
culture itself breaks down. Where do I go?
Atheist's Perspective | 9:17 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
I actually really enjoyed most of Thomas S. Monson's Sunday morning session
talk. It was, for the most part, advice that even an atheist could appreciate
to enjoy and savor each day and cherish the relationships with loved ones above
programs and other distractions. Hopefully we will all reach for a day when the
focus of our lives is positive and fulfilling relationships with other people
and overcoming human suffering and sadness instead of expending energy on
reading holy books, praying, building sanctuaries to certain dieties, and trying
to convince others to worship the way we do.
njp | 9:22 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
I believe we were all chastised with the pure love of Christ this conference.
Now it is up to us to accept and move forward or reject and move backwards.
Thank you President Monson and all those who spoke with such straight
forwardness and conviction.
Great advice... | 9:22 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
Too bad it fell on so many deaf ears. I love it when the LDS
"faithful" claim to believe in their prophet then igonore their
counsel. This is going to be another one of those times.
Kojo | 9:22 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
John Dude,
Please hang in there, I can't fully understand why members will treat you as such, it is wrong. I pray you hang in there and rely on the savior, your day of happiness and joy are fast approcahing, so please hang in there and don't give up, only be still and know that God is God, and he loves you and as you make righteous choices, you will feel the love of the savior encircle you to bouy you up in times of rejection and loneliness. I pray for someone from your ward to see your hidden heartach and come to your aid soon.
Please hang in there, I can't fully understand why members will treat you as such, it is wrong. I pray you hang in there and rely on the savior, your day of happiness and joy are fast approcahing, so please hang in there and don't give up, only be still and know that God is God, and he loves you and as you make righteous choices, you will feel the love of the savior encircle you to bouy you up in times of rejection and loneliness. I pray for someone from your ward to see your hidden heartach and come to your aid soon.
Mc | 9:31 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
Richard: The church membership by his standard has become an idolatrous people.
I am curious about what you feel members of the Church are doing that is "idolatrous." If you mean that some are overly concerned about wealth and status, I would agree, but I do not think that most members are like that. If you are referring to the belief that the Church is the one true church on the earth, we can not change that belief, but we can be more considerate and respectful in communicating it to others. As Pres. Hinckley said, we accept truth wherever we find it and invite those of other faiths to add the truths found in the LDS faith to what they already have that is true.
I feel bad that you have decided to leave the Church because of members who don't live up to what they are taught. It does seem to me though that you may be the one who is straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
I am curious about what you feel members of the Church are doing that is "idolatrous." If you mean that some are overly concerned about wealth and status, I would agree, but I do not think that most members are like that. If you are referring to the belief that the Church is the one true church on the earth, we can not change that belief, but we can be more considerate and respectful in communicating it to others. As Pres. Hinckley said, we accept truth wherever we find it and invite those of other faiths to add the truths found in the LDS faith to what they already have that is true.
I feel bad that you have decided to leave the Church because of members who don't live up to what they are taught. It does seem to me though that you may be the one who is straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
Re: John Dude | 9:40 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
I'm a 53y old male member, going on 17 years single, and have felt overlook
by married members for many years, They the married are average everyday people
with many life's challenges too. But, a good people. I am not there to feel
the perfections of the married saints as they bask in the earthly love of
likeminded married folks. although sometimes that happens along the way,
I'm their for my own personal relationship with God and his Son Jesus
Christ. To partake of the sacrament, draw near to him in prayer and study and
to attend his holy house, even the Temple. I know my personal relationship with
God, and that what counts. I will NEVER depart from the truth because of being
not noticed as a friend to others here in this life. that is just me!
SlapJack | 10:05 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
In order to love someone you actually have to get to know them. I really
don't see this happening anytime soon.
Randy W. | 10:14 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
re: Doctrine and Covenants 71:7-10
Might I suggest that yes, Doctrine and Covenants 71:7-10 IS scripture and is divine direction for us as members of the church, but might I also suggest that it is to be taken in context and with inspiration.
Let us consider the instructive Ecclesiates 3:1-11, which states that, "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" The next 10 verses describe widely diverging actions, all of which are appropriate in their given "season".
Also, the Lord himself says in the Book of Mormon 3 Nephi 12:25, "Agree with thine adversary quickly while thou art in the way with him, lest at any time he shall get thee, and thou shalt be cast into prison." He also says "Love your enemies".
What we see here are two apparently conflicting counsels. Contend with your enemy; make peace with your enemy. But in context and with inspiration, both can be of benefit. Reconciling the two (as in most cases of supposedly conflicting scriptures) is one of our lifelong pursuits in understanding the gospel.
Might I suggest that yes, Doctrine and Covenants 71:7-10 IS scripture and is divine direction for us as members of the church, but might I also suggest that it is to be taken in context and with inspiration.
Let us consider the instructive Ecclesiates 3:1-11, which states that, "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" The next 10 verses describe widely diverging actions, all of which are appropriate in their given "season".
Also, the Lord himself says in the Book of Mormon 3 Nephi 12:25, "Agree with thine adversary quickly while thou art in the way with him, lest at any time he shall get thee, and thou shalt be cast into prison." He also says "Love your enemies".
What we see here are two apparently conflicting counsels. Contend with your enemy; make peace with your enemy. But in context and with inspiration, both can be of benefit. Reconciling the two (as in most cases of supposedly conflicting scriptures) is one of our lifelong pursuits in understanding the gospel.
just me | 10:28 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
I've been feeling alone for a long time, trying to connect with God and
find some peace. This conference was truly an answer to prayer -- so uplifting
and inspiring.
I'm so grateful for the goodness of the speakers and for their hope-filled messages. It has filled me with the light I've been looking for.
THANK YOU!!!
I'm so grateful for the goodness of the speakers and for their hope-filled messages. It has filled me with the light I've been looking for.
THANK YOU!!!
Beethere | 10:31 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
The most important commandment we have is to love our God and love others. The
council to be grateful, to have gratitude, and to kneel in prayer and Thank our
Heavenly Father for all he has blessed us with, will truly bless us with the
spirit more than anything. The sun shines on the ones who are trying (and some
who, not so much,) to follow our Savior. It has been said many times, we can do
all we have been counciled to do, attend meetings, pray, scripture study, attend
the Temple, etc, etc. But if ye have not Charity (which is the pure love of
Christ) ye are nothing. We need to love our neighbors, reach out to others,
mostly in small ways, but we need to do it. Be kinder to our family members.
Not judge, but love each other. I do bear testimony of the incredible blessings
of the Temple. Is life challenging, yes, is our Savior there for us, most
definitley. Do the blessings of the Temple make life so much easier. YES I bear
an absolute witness of that. Getting past the imperfections of people are worth
the Temple Blessings, it makes us better.
Geoff | 10:36 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
To "Great advice" --
So can we have a number count on how many "deaf ears" this counsel fell upon? Are you including yourself in that count? To predict that the faithful -- excuse me, I guess I should put that in quotes as you did -- to predict that the "faithful" are going to ignore the counsel is a terribly biased and judgmental position. Good grief, it's only been one day since the counsel was given, and you've already written off� How many people?
Yes, many will forget the counsel, but not because they consciously choose to ignore the counsel, but because they struggle with the human condition known as imperfection. And many Will Remember It! Next conference similar counsel will be given, and the faithful (notice, no quotation marks, I literally mean faithful) will take stock, recognize the improvements they've made, realize they can still do more and help others to do more. The counsel was given to Everybody, yourself included.
So can we have a number count on how many "deaf ears" this counsel fell upon? Are you including yourself in that count? To predict that the faithful -- excuse me, I guess I should put that in quotes as you did -- to predict that the "faithful" are going to ignore the counsel is a terribly biased and judgmental position. Good grief, it's only been one day since the counsel was given, and you've already written off� How many people?
Yes, many will forget the counsel, but not because they consciously choose to ignore the counsel, but because they struggle with the human condition known as imperfection. And many Will Remember It! Next conference similar counsel will be given, and the faithful (notice, no quotation marks, I literally mean faithful) will take stock, recognize the improvements they've made, realize they can still do more and help others to do more. The counsel was given to Everybody, yourself included.
Jason | 10:53 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
Richard,
I agree with you, Spencer W. Kimball's talk on The False Gods We Worship, calls a spade a spade. We as a people are laboring in idolatry, and I am sure that the current prophet seers and revelators are fully aware of it.
We are no different than the Nephites of old and the same cycles that befell them will befall us.
However, I also believe that there is opposition in all things and that while there are many laboring in Idolarty there has also never been as much righteousness in the church.
Bottom line, the Lord and the church needs you. The Savior stands at the door and knocks, others decision not to let him in ought not effect our own.
We stand amidst the climax of the great war that started before the creation of the world. Now is the time to stand strong, and hold to the faith of our fathers, reject Babylon, and build the Kingdom.
I agree with you, Spencer W. Kimball's talk on The False Gods We Worship, calls a spade a spade. We as a people are laboring in idolatry, and I am sure that the current prophet seers and revelators are fully aware of it.
We are no different than the Nephites of old and the same cycles that befell them will befall us.
However, I also believe that there is opposition in all things and that while there are many laboring in Idolarty there has also never been as much righteousness in the church.
Bottom line, the Lord and the church needs you. The Savior stands at the door and knocks, others decision not to let him in ought not effect our own.
We stand amidst the climax of the great war that started before the creation of the world. Now is the time to stand strong, and hold to the faith of our fathers, reject Babylon, and build the Kingdom.
Mario Carey | 10:59 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
In response to Sleuth...
I think his sentiments are not invalid. I have seen the Church in two different countries as a normal member, not as a missionary, and so I can say I am in the position to make objective observations about Church associations in general here in Utah and in my home country. I say "as a normal member" because having served a mission myself, I know how missionaries are always treated differently, in a better way.
The Church in Utah needs some shaping up to do in the aspect of establishing sincere, meaningful, truly Christlike friendships in its wards. The sweet stories told by the authorities are becoming the exception rather than the norm. Few members actually live the gospel in a way that reaches out to others in a sincere and not pretend way. In the country where I come from, it is not necessary to do formal church socials and mingles --- every Sunday meeting or any day activity is a Church social and connections are made naturally and without pretense.
I think his sentiments are not invalid. I have seen the Church in two different countries as a normal member, not as a missionary, and so I can say I am in the position to make objective observations about Church associations in general here in Utah and in my home country. I say "as a normal member" because having served a mission myself, I know how missionaries are always treated differently, in a better way.
The Church in Utah needs some shaping up to do in the aspect of establishing sincere, meaningful, truly Christlike friendships in its wards. The sweet stories told by the authorities are becoming the exception rather than the norm. Few members actually live the gospel in a way that reaches out to others in a sincere and not pretend way. In the country where I come from, it is not necessary to do formal church socials and mingles --- every Sunday meeting or any day activity is a Church social and connections are made naturally and without pretense.
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