Deseret News | BYU football: A father's dream

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Doug Robinson: BYU football: A father's dream

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Ron | 11:30 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Jim, Finish the degree so that we your greatest fans can see you BYU Hall of Fame honored! Your dad is right, you deserve it, but you need to finish the degree....get a golfing degree in PE!

Joey | 11:39 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

While I agree that waiting to kick him out until after the football season is rather dubious, it is not entirely self serving. It also helped McMahon. Kicking him out during the season would have been far worse for McMahon than kicking him out after the season.

m demass | 11:47 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I'm for Jim McMahon inducted into the BYU Hall of Fame. What he did for BYU football is no small feat. He deserves it.

Comments continue below

Mike R. | 11:48 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

McMahon gave us some great football. He originally wanted to go to Notre Dame but they wouldn't give him the time of day. If not for BYU and their system, he'd still be living in Roy and working at Hill AFB. Although he has moderated his behavior in recent years according some people I know who know him.

The dude is 48 or 49 years old. He ought to grow up and take the nine credit hours on line. He could do that in no time flat. Get his degree, then get into the Hall of Fame.

BYU should retire his number.

Ida | 11:50 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Jim, you were a great football player, and my guess is that you are a good husband and father. You deserve to be in the BYU hall of fame, although I am sure it isn't one of your priorities. However, why not honor your father and teach your children a principle of life which is to finish what you start. You can get the credits you need anywhere and transer them back to BYU and then graduate. I did it, and I was halfway across the nation, so I know it can be done. This makes the issue go away, your father leaves this life satisfied with his son, the rules are intact and your children will honor you for being the bulldog with an old boot that you have always been in every other situation.

Scoobie | 11:58 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Ref; BYU and Missionaries
Bronco does not recruit missionaries already committed to other programs...he has stated that several times. Any missionary transfers as have happened such as Max Hall from AZ STATE and the more recent Utah recruit that a few months ago announced that he had decided to transfer upon return from his mission, were initiated by the Missionary athlete. I can't speak for Crowton who didn't want athletes turned Missionaries anyways, because of his own personal recruiting philosophy.
The point is that if other D-1 schools especially religious schools being the best examples like SMU, Southern Methodist University, or even TCU, Texas Christian University in our own Mountain West conference, would be able to have the same regulations and the same oppurtunities as Utah, Utah State and BYU. There is no BYU monopoly on this regulation. And while we are at it there is an almost identical set of NCAA regulations that apply to Student athletes who are members of the National Guard and Reservists from all branches of the Military to include the Merchant Marines ...which is a civilian branch of the military.

My question now is. Are we done or are you going to keep harping???

The Apple and the Tree | 12:04 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

When I put myself in McMahon, Sr.'s position, I think I would certainly handle this in a different way:

Dear Son,

It appears that I am still teaching you that rules apply differently to the McMahon family than everyone else. Shame on me.

Whether BYU was culpable or not in turning a blind eye to your indiscretions, is irrelevant at this point. Perhaps it is time for me to be your father, not just another fan.

With all respect to the next generation of McMahons, lets make this a teaching moment. We all have the opportunity to reject or repeat the mistakes we have seen in our history. Lets fix it now.

Jim, Son--I did not mean to teach you that rules are meant to be flaunted, and if you have learned that from me--then I have set a poor example. I still have time to change, and I will.

Dad McM

Scoobie | 12:33 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Ref: Double Standard
Funny.... Virgil Carter, Gifford Nielson and Marc Wilson were every bit as excithing to watch in "Cougar Stadium".

Regardless of that, I can't pass on your comment that "Jim McMahon created the interest that allowed the building of the stadium. Now that's real interesting. I graduated in 1981 and even though this is 2008, unless I'm living in a different universe Lavell Edwards Stadium was Cougar Stadium that was added upon with both endzone arcs and the sill existing East West sections adding seating to the lower level by lowering the playing field. Additional upper decking was also added to the East side section.
Not wanting to take away from McMahon.... because he is still BYU's best College level quarterback... but, both Steve Young and Robbie Boscoe played in Cougar Stadium before completion of the additions and the renaming of Cougar Stadium to Lavell Edwards Stadium.

The magic of #9 | 12:35 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Interesting that the exact number of credits he needs is the same number that is going to be retired...or not.

I was one of the young morons that left the SMU Holiday Bowl early as well...aaagh!

Oh, and one last thing, "blow it out your Bass, Ernest T.!"

Steve | 12:40 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

He could just make a big donation to the athletic department to get them to change their rules, oops, that was another institution. My bad.

NORCA BYU FAN | 12:45 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Let's get Vai, and Tom and former graduates to contact Jim and get him rolling. I agree that he should be in the Hall based on athletic performance alone and not based on graduation; however, rules being rules, it is what it is. However, for Jim, it's Graduation! I hope Jim would see it that way. You're never too old. And It doesn't matter how he respresented the Y. I have my issues with the Y and I'm not Mormon. When I lived there, I loved to challenge the establishment and sometimes that needs to happen. I'm still a Y fan and there are great people at that school.

Tom Chambers | 12:45 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Reminds me of the same exact situation as Tom Chambers. The best basketball player to ever play at the University of Utah. He was an NBA All-Star, slam dunk champ, All-Star game MVP, one of the top NBA scorers of all-time....but NO jersey retired at the University of Utah. What a shame!

mark in austin tx | 12:49 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I think fans would LOVE to see Jimmy Mac in the BYU hall of fame. I also sense fans have more of an ownership on McMahon than Jimmy does on BYU. I get the feeling from reading his book a long time ago, he was soured and bitter and hated BYU. - but we didnt hate him.

we should find a way to get him in.

Ken | 1:15 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

He signed the honor code and he knew what the rules were. His Father played Mormon Church softball. Let's not have anyone believe Jim was ignorant to the rules. Jim was and probably still is a rebellious person with athletic gifts and good fortune. Non-monetary Awards don't mean anything to Jim in real terms and Jim is ahead of his Dad in that respect. I submit that the band-aids and extraordinary efforts to keep him eligible back then were in some way trying to get Jim to recognize how privileged he was. All of that is not ours to judge and neither is the foolishness of the Hall of Fame discussion. Jim made his bed and now must sleep in it.

Glory? | 1:54 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Let all glory be to the Father..Remember the situation where someone wanted all the glory?He and his followers were cast out...Send his Dad a nice thank-you for raising a son who gave so much to help BYU.

BYU fan | 2:06 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I'm a huge BYU fan, and I'm sad about the way that BYU kicked Jim out AFTER he was done playing. Nobody is perfect, and that was clearly a mistake on the part of the University. If they had the intestinal fortitude to enforce the Honor Code violations while he was winning games, and not after, I'd feel differently. BYU owes him, don't bend the rules, he should have to graduate, but make it easy for him to get the 9 credits in and get him his degree and get him into the hall.

re: Double Standard | 2:15 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

To all of those who think that Bronco is out ACTIVELY recruiting missionaries, find another excuse to hate BYU, that one is pathetic and worn out. He will give them an audience if they inquire, but has said over and over again that he does not actively recruit them. Even if you hate Bronco and BYU, you have to admit he is honest to a fault, and doesn't lie about this. Heck, he even told the media his team didn't deserve to move up in the polls after not playing. Do you think that helped his team the next week? They moved down after a win. If I was a pollster I'd want to send a message for doubting my decision to move them up. Bronco knows this, and still spoke the truth. Time to leave that one alone, there's nothing there.

TexMexCoug | 2:18 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Very tough situation to sort out... I think this is another example of cry-babies and whiners simply being dumb....

The graduation requirement is a rule to get in the Hall of Fame -- period. True winners in life do what they need to do to achieve their goals. If McMahon wants to get in he will take 9 credits of classes and be done with it.

It is obvious McMahon Jr doesn't care about this. That is his right and personal feelings. I think McMahon, Sr. is just a great dad looking out for his son.

BYU should not move 1 inch -- We can argue BYU this and BYU that, but the bottom line is that McMahon as a young man and adult was in charge his behavior and actions

Herb Gravy | 2:29 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Not so fast there, pardner. Isn't this the same Jim McMahon that said the best thing about BYU was "leaving"? Or is that merely apocryphal?
A hall-of-famer should have at least a modicum of decorum. Don't think the Y should take a chance on his taking the opportunity to turn it down. How embarrassing.

FLA Cougar | 2:39 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Rules are rules. No doubt that McMahon was a great quarterback, but allowing him into the Hall of Fame without following the rules of admission would tarnish the honor of those already there. The comment was made that "BYU Football Hall of Fame without Jim McMahon Would be like the NBA hall of fame without Michael Jordan." Pete Rose didnï¿½t follow the rules and heï¿½s not In the MLB Hall of Fame. Before you squawk remember what Rose did was not illegal it was just against the rules

Too Much Misinformation | 3:01 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

There are a lot of stones being thrown around, by a lot of people who don't know what they are talking about. One of those anonymous phone calls LaVell Edwards got about McMahon's rule-breaking came when McMahon was WITH coach Edwards. Was he completely innocent? Of course not. But the Honor Code office wasn't looking the other way - each time they investigated something, it turned out to be unsubstantiated.

He left Provo before he could get kicked out, not because of Honor Code violations, but because he stopped going to class! He would have been ineligible from an NCAA perspective, based on his grades - it had nothing to do with BYU turning a blind eye and then dumping him.

Footballfan | 3:11 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

For the record, My son attends BYU (non athlete) I am a member of the church (convert) I do not believe McMahon' attitude/actions were a surprise to the BYU athletic department. Have no idea what got him kicked out and when. But, his actions throughout his career there are legendary. We just finished a wonderful conference that stressed love and reaching out to others. For goodness sakes reach out to Jim and let him take those nine units and graduate. This might be the thing that makes his life complete. (have no idea what his lifestyle is today) This is a no brainer. He was hurt, we need to reach out to him. I believe this is a commandment.

Getting In by Getting Around | 3:23 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

If he's finished the requirements for his major and only needs some General Education requirements, then here's an option that will satisfy the University's requirements and should suit McMahon's style: invented and implemented by my dear wife who didn't want to take Physical Science 100:

Take all of your BYU credits and transfer to a community college. Take a credit there if needed and get your Associate's degree. Then transfer the Associate's back to BYU. The BYU registrar is then forced to waive all GE requirements as being fulfilled by the transferred Associates. Then because the Major and GE req's are finished, all your academic requirements are complete and BYU must award the degree.

Like I said, my wife came up with this shell-game with BYU and SLCC two weeks before graduation--and it totally worked! Good luck, Jim. Hope this can be worked out. You and BYU deserve each other (crazy as that sounds).

optimist | 3:27 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I have always been a BYU Fan first. I have also always been a Jim McMahon fan second, a Steve Young Fan third and a Ty Detmer 4th. I love each of them and their placement is not meant to be a discredit to any of them. I am just looking at the Stats.

I realize that this Catholic Boy, Jim, did not share our same Word of Wisdom Values, and since they seemed out of touch with the rest of the world, it really did not resister as being that important to him even thow he did sign the agreement.

It would be great if the BYU fans, University, and Church could/would rise above the dispute, over a scholarship for Jim to complete his 9 units, and upon completion, be welcomed and honored into the BYU Hall of Fame.

If he refuses the generious offer, that would be his choice. If he accepts the offer, it would be great to welcome him as the skilled football hero that he was.

I vote for him to be in our Hall of Fame.

geezer | 3:34 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Re: Apple and the tree

Long ago I had a chance to meet McMahon senior and was very impressed. I was on a tour to Mexico and he was on the same tour. He was always very much a gentleman and his wife was kind and gracious.

I doubt you know these people, but are insinuating something to this effect "Like father like son." I don't think you know what you're talking about. Obviously you've never had a son that likes to feel his oats once in awhile. The Bible and Book of Mormon are full of these examples if you're an "inspired scriptorian."

Maybe instead of Jim McMahon having to be superman to be in the Hall of Fame he could just be recognized for his outstanding contributions on the playing field.

Randy | 3:59 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Honorary Degree

I.F. FAN | 5:16 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Give him an honoray degree!!!!!!He deserves it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

byufan | 5:34 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

He needs to get over his pride and finish his degree. Simple as that!

TexMexCoug | 7:02 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

this whole article is ridiculous - I am reading post after post criticizing BYU making it seem like BYU is the reason McMahon is not the in BYU Hall of Fame --

drop this anti-BYU ranting -- In case you did not read the article, BYU and Holmoe have their arms WIDE OPEN and are extending the possibility for Jim to make it into the Hall of Fame

The ball is in his court -- All he has to do is earn 9 credits to get in -- People including this writer are blowing this up to proportion --

McMahon Sr instead of writing BYU and the Church write to your son, tell your son to do what he needs to do -- Your real battle is with your son -- You are crying to BYU because your son wont hear you out -- No doubt Jim has within him the grit to earn 9 credit hours...

This post in no way is trying to trash on anyone. But even Jim himself told his dad not to send the letter.. Either he is just not ready or he just doesn't really care...

Irony | 7:14 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Isn't it interesting to hear so many of you clamoring for BYU to "just let him in". Come on, relax the rules. He was a great jock so cut him some slack. I say baloney. And for all of those saying that BYU only kicked him out after they were done with him, again I say baloney. My take on it is BYU ALLOWED him to stay on until he could be kicked out without damaging his NFL opportunities. If not for their "cutting him some slack", i.e. showing mercy for his sake, he probably would have been kicked out long before then.

Can you imagine the uproar from the many BYU-haters if BYU did lessen the rules just for him? Geesh, we would never hear the end of it!

Let me add that Jim is by far my all-time favorite BYU quarterback with Ty being second. I was there during his time. He was the very best, hands down, that I have ever seen! So come on, Jim, finish your degree so we can all celebrate your induction into the Hall of Fame. What a great day that would be.

Cougarfan | 7:39 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

What the heck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Put Mcmahon in the Hall of Fame! He did so much for BYU football show the man some love!!

TexMexCoug | 8:04 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Like it or not, McMahon played at BYU and was a legend.

Lessons were learned -- Never ever recruit a player to BYU if he/she is unwilling to follow the Honor Code.

Bronco understands this and basically tells his recruits to either embrace and commit to follow the honor code or go somewhere else.

It is better to throw it out and

Wayne in Rocklin | 8:24 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I read Jim McMahon's book and I seem to recall that he wrote that after the football season was over he got a letter from the Honor Code committee asking him to appear before them. I recall that he said that he quit school after he got the letter. I don't have the book anymore so I could be wrong. The point being that he was not kicked out of school, he left of his own volition.

I do recall that many of the complaints that Lavell Edwards received about McMahon were bogus because he was in Roy visiting his family when he was supposedly buying beer or cigars or something in Provo. Maybe it was those jealous Ute fans.

I do believe that McMahon could come halfway, take some courses on the internet, graduate and get inducted into the Hall.

ruby | 8:39 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I am NO BYU fan. But I do remember McMahon's greatness. Couldn't he finish as an online student? It is certainly OK for charter schools and foreign students and students making up credits. Hey, BYU, do you monitor the honor code standards of on-line students? Or is the honor code just for those in the public eye? A variation of "don't ask, don't tell."

aweome fan of byu cougars | 9:24 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

i remember when i saw jim in the smith feild house he was was acting like he was better then everyone else well then after he leaves the school an gos pro he puts down levell edwards an the people who got him there in the first place im glad that steve young was who he was it shows what great man steve was in compare to jimmmy

Tyler | 10:03 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

He did alot for the program... Degree or no degree put his name on the stadium.

Go Cougars.

haunyocker | 10:13 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Just think of the vitriol McMahon would have spewed if he had been kicked out of BYU before his last game. It's a no win situation. McMahon doesn't want a degree from BYU, BYU doesn't want him in the hall of fame given his antipathy toward the University and Church. Where's the surprise? McMahon didn't honor his promise to keep the honor code, what makes anyone think he'll honor his father's wish and finish 9-units making him eligible for the HOF. If McMahon was so great, why didn't he win 4 Super Bowls like Terry Bradshaw or Tom Brady.

Scott | 11:39 p.m. Oct. 6, 2008

I do believe that Jim McMahon should be in Byu HOF, but only if he gets his degree.I don't think Byu made that degree requirement for hof just to keep McMahon out. There is requirements for most athletic hof and if he does not finish it up then does not get in.

Pluto | 12:51 a.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Admitting Jim McMahon into the Hall of Fame without a degree is exactly what BYU should not do. Elite athletes like him are given way too much at too early an age, and a sense of entitlement develops. No doubt, based on his play alone his inductment would be a no brainer. But that isn't the only guideline. Yes, the administration at BYU was self-serving and hypocritical when it came to Jim McMahon, and other BYU athletes over time. There is dirt on other guys on the list who are in the BYU hall of fame, who definitely didn't obey the honor code their entire time at BYU. This isn't about the honor code. When given the shot at getting their education paid for by playing a sport, an athlete should take advantage of the opportunity and obtain their degree. BYU makes special efforts to reach out and encourage their athletes to do so, and they would for Jim McMahon. But I get the feeling that he is content enough to travel the celebrity golf circuit and cash in on the groupies who still go for a 50 year old living in his past glory.

Reality | 7:46 a.m. Oct. 7, 2008

You know what would make a great reality show?

Jim McMahon returns to BYU to finish his degree and get inducted into the Hall. Bad feelings on both sides could be soothed, and old issues resolved.

Now that's good drama!

If he really wants it | 1:42 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Play by the rules, complete a degree. Try toeing someone else's line for once in his life. It's not ALL about McMahon...

Simple | 7:49 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

BYU, as one of what I bet is a minority of colleges in the U.S., requires their athlete's to complete a college degree before being elected to the school's hall of fame because they put an emphasis on learning and intelligence.

Get the degree and McMahon will be inducted before the ink dries on his final paper.

BTW, I was a teenager when McMahon played for BYU and he was simply AWESOME to watch!!

Kyle Morrell | 7:58 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

Wow, a mention of Kyle Morrell!

I was a sophomore at Viewmont High School when he was a senior and that guy was incredible! He started at QB and FS, he was our star guard on our basketball team and an ace pitcher on our baseball team. He was so good he was offered a football scholarship AND a baseball scholarship to BYU, lettered as a true freshman (he played a lot in the nickel defense package), started for the next 3 years, was team captain as a senior and an All-American as a senior and was then drafted by the Minnesota Vikings in the 4th round.

I know Morrell was hurt his rookie year and was injured reserve and then started one Monday Night Football game his second year and then he got hurt again. I think he ended up leaving the NFL after his third year?

DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM FOR SURE? WAS HE TRADED? DID HE GO TO THE CFL?, ETC? ANYBODY KNOW WHAT HE DID FOR A PROFESSION AFTER FOOTBALL?

He took our 2-6 varsity team all the way to the state championship (we lost to West 31-6) and ended the year 6-7.

Anonymous | 8:27 p.m. Oct. 7, 2008

It's not about "forgiveness" on the part of BYU, it's about maintaining standards.

Sure, God forgives, but He doesn't forgive until the individual shows a willingness to correct their behavior, or as they say in religious terms, "repent".

Think about it, everyone with a brain knows that while God forgives He sure isn't one to lower His standards, not even an inch.

transferredOUTofbyu | 9:47 p.m. Oct. 9, 2008

this is off the current topic but does anyone know whatever happened to Kyle Morrell?

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