Deseret News | BYU football: A father's dream

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Doug Robinson: BYU football: A father's dream

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John S. | 12:28 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Jim McMahon dissed BYU on several occasions after leaving. Why should we honor him? We should honor people who represent the University well, not bad mouth it.

nine | 12:36 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

nine credits could be done on the internet..come on Jim sr. do it for him, if it means that much to you. It must not mean that much to him.

RockOn | 12:38 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Hold to your standards, BYU.

I could care less what Papa McMahon wants.

Yes, JM was a great quarterback but he was a 100% jerk. Still is. He can't even humble himself enough to complete 3 classes just so he can stick it to his self-professed enemy, the LDS Church and BYU.

When he was once interviewed at the Holiday after the dramatic BYU-Penn St. game he had nothing good to say about BYU and said Ty Detmer was a loser and he was a winner. (I was there.)

If McMahon fits ALL of the requirements, then great... but don't bend the rules once again to placate this foolish boy who can't grow up.

Comments continue below

1980 Cougar | 12:39 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Mr. "double standard" cry me a freakin river! Get your facts straight. Family members of missionaries contact BYU all the time. The coaches don't proactively go after them!

As for Jim, I watched him in the stands and loved the games where we were up 21-0 at the end of the first quarter. I also watched and loved the Miracle Bowl and know that he probably is the best QB to ever play at BYU. But, if a university has certain rules or guidelines to get into the hall of fame why can't Jimbo achieve them if for no other reason than to make his Dad happy?

People have to learn that in life there are rules to follow, laws to abide by and if you want to get into any club you have to follow their rules. I mean we all learned that as kids didn't we?

Time for Jim to suck it up, realize there are consequences to not following the rules and do what is necessary to make his Dad happy.

Scoobie | 12:55 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

JIMBO,....see if any of the needed classes are on line...and make your father proud. Just know that you have a lot of support out here. You being in BYU's Hall of Fame means more than the Heisman Trophy
....which in actuality there should be two of anyways.

IFJIMWANTEDIT------- | 12:59 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

who said JIM M.Jr wants this??-He publicly mocked BYU while he was playing and continues to do so. In HIS mind he has nothing to gain by swallowing his pride and getting 9 units or even accepting the BYU HALL of FAME honor--FACE IT DUDES !!JIM got what he wanted out of BYU-a chance to be a throwing quarterback when most major teams were option or just hand to an amazing runner with a few passes thrown in to keep the other team honest. BYU coaches and system helped JIM showcase his amazing talents that led him to NBA and NCAA fame.IF JIM M. wanted to be in BUY's hall of fame he'd be there-IF he doesn't give a flip --get over it everybody! IF a father's dying wish doesn't overcome his disdain for BYU and all it stands for OR his personal pride then so be it!What does a silly old jersy and and picture in a buiding HE dispises mean to JIM M.Jr?

Wild but Nice | 12:59 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

My grandpa lived in Provo across the street from Jim during Jim's senior year. As I recall the story, BYU had Jim move in with a family to try and keep him under control. While he was living across the street from my grandpa, Jim shoveled my grandpa's driveway several times. My bet is that Jim's a great person who had a wild streak.

Sounds like both he and the Y made mistakes in their relationship. I'm sure if Jim want's in the Cougar Hall of Fame, he would complete the college classes and he'd be admitted. Of course Jim Sr. wants to see his son honored, what father wouldn't. But until Jim Jr. comes out stating he wants to be inducted, who knows and what does this all matter?

I could see it now, Jim showing up at the induction ceremony and mooning the administration and crowd. Would that make him a bad guy, not necessarily, it just illustrates that he's not the squeaky clean person BYU likes to put on show.

lvman | 1:12 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

There is no question that Jim McMahon had a hall of fame career at BYU if the only criteria to be in the hall of fame is athletic skill. In every other aspect of his career, including after BYU, that would not be based on athletic skill, he had a hall of shame career. It is too bad that BYU was so desperate during his days that they were willing to overlook his behavior to win a few games. There are only a handful of people, Lavell Edwards being one of them, who probably know the full truth of that angle. But if what is suspected and what Jim McMahon has personally said is true, he would have been gone from BYU faster than Ronney Jenkins. TO me, hall if fame status honors a person, not the number of records set. No hall of fame for Jim even if he graduates.

re"wild-nice | 1:20 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

NO argument that JIM M. was probably one of the greatest quarterbacks to play at the Y.His NFL records and rings prove IT. There is also no arguement that as a person he had some good points but PLEASE don't make JIM the VICTUM of the big bad evil religious owned university DOWN south. Jim got what he wanted from BYU --a national showcase to show of his amazing talents that FEW if ANY football coaches including NFL appreciated at that time.
IF JIM wanted or cared about BYU's hall of FAME he'd have gotten the credits by now and been a man about getting things straight with BYU administration.
GO COUGARS!!!GO UTES!! NOV 22nd is coming!I HOPE you BOTH suck it up and bring your A games so YOU"ll both be undefeated on that morning at kickoff time!

??? | 1:38 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Can he earn the 9 credits and graduate from another University and still be eligible for the Y Hall of fame?

Mike in Iraq | 1:50 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Anyone else watch the Miracle Bowl in the Marriot Center? I was there as a 9 year old kid from Orem and watched it until the end. Very exciting.

Jim, get the damn degree (as you would probably refer to it)! Show all the kids that you inspired, and will inspire, that completing a degree is a worthwhile endeavor. In fact, get Gordon Hudson into classes with you and reminisce about old times.

If your pride prevents you from allowing BYU to honor you and your family for your significant accomplishments, then you are an idiot. Life is too short for such petty arrogance. If you're not interested, tell your dad to quit whining to BYU and the General Authorities about it.

Good luck!

93 cougar | 1:57 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Plus he was part of that awesome Bears rap song...

Does the qualify him or disqualify him?

Sorry but Young | 2:02 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Sorry Jim was great and I was there for both but Steve Young was the better athlete and QB. Give him as much time as Jim an he would have done as well and had rushing yards to boot. Sorry but Young was better. But it is like comparing exotic sports cars. We all have our opinion don't we? There have been some really good ones. Each have their own strenghts.

Jim get the 9 credits and I am 100% for you to be in the Hall of fame. You deserve it. No more rules exceptions for you.

Merits YES Attitude NO! | 2:13 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

When you play like he did YES!!!
When you fail to keep your word
and even mock the University/System
it negates onfield merits.
JIM was pehaps the best DIV 1 QB ever.
However... Be a man of your word and
keep the promise you made to live the
honor code that is still in place and
always will be.
Appoligize and try and make it right hard head!

Pretext | 2:20 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

My father is in the BYU Hall of Fame and he didn't graduate (he left school to pursue professional opportunties about 12 hours short of his degree). To say this has always been the policy is not accurate and I think to lean on this point as an excuse is really pretext for other reasons to keep him out. Few would argue that McMahon, through his amazing play on the field has merited induction, but it is not his action on the field that keeps him out.

Cougar76 | 2:24 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

I am in the BYU Hall of Fame and never attended the school. Without a name, I can claim anything.

Lifelong Cougar Fan | 2:25 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

I have watched and loved BYU Football longer than I can remember. I watched and still watch them all, from Sheide to Max Hall. #9 was and still is the best that ever took an snap at BYU, as a fan you always felt that he ran out of time. He never lost a game. That being said, the rule is that he has to graduate to be in the BYU Hall of Fame. That's fine, but retire his number. I don't hear of any mention that graduation being a requirement of having your number retired. I will be honest, I don't mean any disrespect to anyone of those that have worn #9 since the Miracle Bowl game, but #9 to me will always be Jim McMahon. I really don't think that anyone will be enough of a player to erase that from my memory however good they may be. I agree that he needs to graduate to be enshrined in the BYU Hall of Fame, but at least retire #9 in the honor of the best ever to play quarterback at Quarterback U!

Holiday Bowl Hall of Fame | 2:30 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

I have an autographed picture in my den of Jim McMahon throwing the final touchdown pass in the 1980 Holiday Bowl. I did not ask for the picture. Jim sent it to me with a note of thanks for his experiences at the Holiday Bowl. In 1993, Jim was inducted into the first class of the Holiday Bowl Hall of Fame along with LaVell Edwards and Gordon Hudson. Jim is in my hall of fame.

Dick Circuit, Holiday Bowl President, 1994

Pretext | 2:55 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

I'm not protecting my name but my fathers. You can believe what you want I could care less. It's a fact!

Jim, | 2:59 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

your Dad wants to see you there. You have a choice. What will you do? Will you do what you have always done, or will you make the right choice? I know as soon as you read that your heart will pull you away from what a person says is "right". If this truly is about your Dad then make it about him and not you.

The real Jim McMahon? | 3:45 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Years ago in the mid-eighties I shared a television gig with Jim as we both participated in a Children's Miracle Network Telethon session at the Osmond Studios. I was there to present a check to Merlin Olsen and Marie Osmond (and the CMNT) on behalf of my company and he was there as part of the program that day. I vividly recall a few people in the studio who, off camera, were encouraging Jim to act up and say or do something crazy on camera, as was his reputation at that time. He said something that impressed me very much that day. He said that something as serious as a sick child was not funny and that much of what he did when goofing around was more about marketing himself. On camera, he conducted himself with dignity and class. He is a good man who chose to do some things that were out of step with some very high standards. I would love to see him in the BYU hall of fame and hope that he chooses to get the 9 credits and feel the appreciation that many of us have for him as he is inducted.

re:sob | 3:58 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

YEP!!!

Why restate what I said? I, mean, that's exactly what I said that it said. Thank's for repeating it for me.

I know it said Pluto, which was Danny Plato's nickname, and he was going through severe medical issues.

McMahon, was sure that no one knew this so that it would properly disrespect the Bears and the NFL.

If he wanted to respect Plato, that's what he would have on his headband.

He also stuck his tounge out at the nation, and when told not to wear Cowboy Boots on the sideline when injured, he told Ditka that his boots cost more than Dicka's whole outfit.

Point is McMahon, arguably, the greatest QB to play for BYU does not respect others, does not respect his father or himself to do what it takes to get this done, unless he can do it breaking the rules to do it.

He doesn't care. I say put his dad in the hall of fame for dealing with him.

Anonymous | 4:03 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Maybe it's time to move on about Jim's past, he's been a good citizen, he's stayed out of trouble, he must have matured , he has a family and is takinfg care of them. I'm not a Y grad but feel the Y needs to recognize him for what he did for their program. Maybe both can show maturity..

NY | 4:18 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

So many here are missing the point. The point is that BYU has a policy that a player must graduate. If Jim chooses to graduate, I have no doubt that he would immediately be placed in the Hall of Fame. Come on Jim, you don't even need to attend BYU. Just take the last three classes at another college, transfer them to BYU and apply for graduation. No big deal. As I said in an earlier post (way back) Jim is the best ever and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. It is all up to him if he wants to do it.

snipe | 4:30 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Sorry, stop being a horse's butt and get the degree!

Yes, JM was a great QB. So what? He did not graduate and is therefore not eligible for the HOF.

If it weren't for JM's insufferable pride, he would be in the HOF already.

He was a great QB, now get the stinkin' degree. And his dad should stop whining.

zippy | 4:38 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Buuuuuuutttttt he did nOOOOOOOOT! play alone to became a hero that he was He really was great but there were 10 others who protected him and help him became who he was. May Sr. McMahon should be the hero who cares. Jr didnt care.I fully agree with all those who said get your 9 credit and go on.

dj | 5:42 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

????? - maybe he can get those credits somewhere else, it all depends on types and numbers of hours.. and maybe he can get them online, maybe not - depends on what he needs.

And for someone who doesn't understand why anyone cares about a hall of fame, this has been a good article and discussion for me to read. Thx

Hypocrisy University | 6:09 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Just vote him in and complete the entire tale of hypocrisy that applied to McMahon from day one. The Honor Code did not apply (until after his final bowl game, of course). And the graduation rule should not apply either, until after he is inducted. Great show BYU, thanks for showing us how the Lord's University is run!

lets be honest | 6:42 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

The reason he will never get in is the degree, because he will never come back and live the honor code this time around he will never get his degree and then be in the Hall of Fame.

Nor do I think it is a good Idea to induct someone to the LDS churches hall of fame that so willing hates the church.

rbhornet | 6:59 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Does Jim McMahon want in the BYU Hall of Fame or just his father? Maybe this isn't an issue.

McFan | 7:13 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

He was as good as they get and more!! who cares what happend back then. If Jim's Father want's to see what is right and his number hanging. Then Jim should step up for his dad and take a few min. on the i-net and get it done. If he really cares!!!!

Cougar Mom | 7:42 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

While Jim was in school, the Utah County DEA spent tens of thousands of dollars attempting to entrap or otherwise entangle Jim in some sort of drug escapade. It was a sorry time for civil rights and for any football player on the BYU team. Certainly there are standards, but just what are they?

BRUCE REID | 7:44 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

A WAY FOR BOTH TO SAVE FACE AND JIM CAN HONOR HIS FATHER.
1. TOM- Invite Jim to take some easy classes online involving writing papers on Sports. Tom, you pick neutral Subjects and work out some General Studies degree.
2. JIM- Honor your father with his wish before it's too late and be good for the month it takes to write some Sports Journalism.
3. BYU- Show some understanding and allow this option to others who need less than one quarter to graduate so they might have the possibility of the BYU Hall of Fame.
4. Both BYU AND Jim benefitted from each other and it's time to put this all behind.

Doug Robinson | 8:05 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Wow, it sure is great that we have hardcore U of U homers like Doug Robinson to expose this utter travesty of American sport. What other motive was there to write this article than to try to embarrass BYU? Its funny to see that Utah fans care so much about how the Honor Code is enforced and how hypocritical BYU is in recruiting etc. I didn't know they loved Jim McMahon so much.

maddog | 8:09 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

If he was good enough to play at BYU, good enough to put BYU on the NCAA map, he should be good enough for your hall of fame. Look what he did for you? I am a die-hard Ute fan and I can't believe the y treats him that way. Just get the sports media department to air-brush out his history of antics (it wouldn't be the first time) and put him in...

McMahon needs to grow up | 8:11 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

I was at BYU when he was there. I was proud of his football accomplishments, but he acted like a brat. He's lucky he hadn't been kicked out sooner, which means we wouldn't be talking about this now because he'd have had no career stats at BYU on which to crow. He treated those of us at BYU badly by his actions. If he still cannot behave as others of us at BYU did or should have done, then he doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. Pete Rose is a good example, no matter how good a player he was. I was booted from BYU, I speak from experience. I've never completed my degree, but the bottom line is I didn't live as I should have and they did the right thing... in both our cases.

Finish What You Start | 8:44 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Much as I ordinarily detest the "rules are rules" argument when I don't think it makes sense, in this case, I think it does. BYU wants to honor players who finished what they started, and there's nothing wrong with that. But it WOULD indeed be a shame not to honor Jim McMahon.

Jim, I'll pretend you'll read this--but you're the first BYU QB I ever saw play. You're part of the reason I still follow BYU football, even if the so-called "fans" are... well, let's save that thought.

Anyway, you'd never walk off the field with the game on the line and a minute left on the clock. Similar thing here. Finish your 9 credits--heck, it'd take you a few weeks!--and we'll see you in the Hall of Fame.

That's the win-win solution here. Jim finishes what he started, BYU honors him, and everybody's happy. Let's do it.

RightOnBuzz | 9:12 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Just reading most of these comments - the ones from people who capitalized on McMahon's successes on BYU's behalf, bragged incessantly on his achievements, and generally sickened the rest of us with their vanilla football - reminds me why I can't stand Cougars, their school, and their sissy little fans! McMahon actually made Cougar sports interesting while he was there.

snubbed | 9:30 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

The real raw deal is he didn't win the Heisman. That was a no brainer pick.

Give it up Dad. | 9:58 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

McMahon Sr., why do you bring this up. If Jim doesn't want it then you should let it drop. Don't let something as small as this honor get in the way of your relationship with you son during the years you have remaining.

Really, worldly honors are not that important. Be happy knowing that your son Jim was one of the greatest quarterbacks in the nation. He won a superbowl. He was super cool. Putting that in writing won't change it or validate it. Just be happy and don't worry.

WACfan | 10:34 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

What changes if you get inducted into the Hall of Fame? Do your stats change? Your won-lost record? Your NCAA records? No, of course not. But do you get more recognition from people if you are able to put on your resume that you are a Hall of Famer? Do people who don't know your stats think more highly of you if you're an inductee? If so, who cares? Why would you care about the opinion of people who are, literally, ignorant about you and what you've done?

Honestly, the hunt for titles and trophies is so meaningless - and we're talking about honors for playing a GAME! There are much more important things for ME to think about, and I would hope Jim and his father can identify some important things to do in the days remaining to them that are more important than a little more brass-colored plastic and a few formica name-plates in a glass case. As great as McMahon was (and he was, of that there is no doubt), his absence from the Hall is more conspicuous notoriety for him than inclusion would be. And it's just the kind of notoriety I think he would relish...

BYU and missionaries... | 11:05 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

Missionaries should loose a year of eligibility if they change schools while on a mission. BYU has an unfair advantage with football players who are serving. The NCAA already stops their eligibility clock while they are out. They should not get the added benefit of being able to transfer as well. If they choose to transfer there should be a penalty.

BYU 1981 Grad | 11:27 p.m. Oct. 5, 2008

There have been a lot of misunderstandings about Jimmy Mac's time at the Y. BYU did not turn a blind eye to his antics, he dealt with the Honor Code office more than once, and while there were and are employees of that department that would love to notch an athlete on their belt, he worked out his issues-with a big help from Coach Edwards.
As for his leaving, when he was injured in the Colorado game, he stopped attending classed to work full time on his rehab. Actually a common sense decision, since an NFL career is worth more than a Journalism degree. His leaving at the end of the semester is a bit of a mystery, there was no HC action taken to my knowledge, best guess is it was a mutual understanding, and he needed to start working out full time to get ready for the draft, just like a lot of recent BYU players have done.
I hope that sooner or later, he gives a bit, finishes his classes, and BYU swallows it's pride as well. All's well that ends well.

Scoobie | 5:24 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Ref BYU and Missionaries

This is a blog about Jim McMahon and his father Can't you read???

That rule applies across the board for any college in the U. S. BYU as well as Utah and Utah State are all able to do it and any school in the nation can also accomidate for it.... plus the Church of Jesus Christ LDS is not the only Church with student athletes who go on missions for their churches. The main difference with BYU and all other Schools is that we have a lot more than any other universites primarily because their coaching staffs or their administrations choose not to accomodate and use their scholarships in a different manner. There is no issue of unfairness...plain and simple

Dr. J | 7:06 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

The real scoop . . .

After the '81 Holiday Bowl J Mac went way out on a limb and did things that would even make a gangsta rapper cringe. They were way past his previous shenanigans and because he wasn't in the football program, LaVell couldn't protect him, so he was toast. Don't let Robinson make you think that there was some institutional attempt to get Jimmy out, it was his way of saying Sianara--good-bye BYU. And, he defied them to kick him out. This time, they had to.

Buckeye Fan | 7:43 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

First of all, this article is about what a Father will do for his son. I'm sure it was written correctly, Jim didn't want his father writing that letter.

A lot of the comments are about the breaking of rules and quarterback records. Jim, wouldn't this be the ultimate dig at the university for you. If you finished the 9 hours to graduate...then what would be their excuse. Like I said in a prior post, do it for your father. My wife always tells me..."Anyone can be nice for 2 hours."

Someone said the Hall of Fame is for everyone. Don't see any scholars up there. It's for the athletes. It's what was done on the playing field not the classroom. BYU was always on the map, but Jim was the one who got the guru's to notice it. A player is recognized in a sport's hall for how they dominated the sport when they were playing. Nobody dominated in that era like Jim McMahon did. If they did put this rule in to keep Jim out, what poetic justice would it be for him to graduate. Remember, anyone can be nice to two hours!!!

geezer | 8:28 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Mcmahon wasn't recruited by BYU to be a missionary. He gave all he had on the football field. We all sure loved him every Saturday he played. Let's give the guy credit for the good he did. Do you have to be an L.D.S. "saint" to be appreciated in Provo? His father just wants him to be recognized for his outstanding football achievemnts. So what if he didn't like the LDS faith. He never claimed to be something he wasn't.

BYU and missionaries | 9:35 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Hey Scoobie,

I can read and I have read all three pages. Jim McMahon is my favorite BYU QB ever. He should be in the Hall. My comments, in regards to recruiting missionaries were in response to three or four other posters who mentioned it before I did. Other Athletes cannot transfer to another D1 university unless they loose a year of eligibility. It should be the same for missionaries. The fact that the two years does not count on their clock is a gift from the NCAA. If they choose to transfer the clock should remain ticking. If you don't think BYU has an advantage in this area you are kidding yourself. This change could put everyone on an equal playing field.

Ken Lowe | 9:45 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Jim McMahon was the greatest quarterback to ever come out of BYU. He had a fierce competitive spirit that literially carried some weak BYU teams to victories over stronger teams. Regardless of the "independent thinker" status that characterizes this ultimate competitor, Jim solidified the national recognition for BYU which all of us BYU fans have enjoyed for many years. As a 1970 graduate of BYU, I strongly encourage we set aside any past or current negative feelings and embrace Jim as a true Hall of Fame candidate. He has more than earned it! I will be greatly disappointed with the school and the administration if his position in the Hall of Fame is not secured.

Linus | 11:30 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008

Sorry, but I'm old enough to know that Jimbo didn't put BYU on the map! Preceding him were greater men playing quarterback at QB University. Why have you all forgotten Virgil Carter, Gifford Nielson, Gary Sheidi, Marc Wilson? There were successful NFL careers by BYU quarterbacks before McMahon. BYU football was on course. They had a system that turned out great quarterbacks on the assembly line. It would be an HONOR to be inducted in the BYU Hall of Fame, but what does McMahon know of honor after ignoring the HONOR code? My guess is that Jim was the one waiting for his last game to force BYU to take a stand. You bleeding hearts don't know what he did to force their hand. I was entertained by Jim's skills, but disgusted by his disrespect for the program that made him a millionaire.

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