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Doug Robinson: BYU football: A father's dream
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John | 12:35 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
He was truly an amazing quarterback and he probably deserves to be in the hall
of fame. I appreciate BYU's stance however and don't think they
should bend the rules for Jim or anyone else. The way is there for him to be
honored if he desires it.
Jim, finish the degree... | 12:52 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
So they will put you in the Hall of Fame. You need to be there. I was 9 years
old when I saw the Miracle Bowl... I'll vote for you.
AzByuFan | 12:53 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I agree McMahon was the best QB at BYU. Young had a great Sr year, he was good
prior but not as consistent as McMahon. Detmer had great stats but had more
opportunities with an earlier start.
But McMahon was not a great represantative of BYU. He was a poor representative of BYU; he mocked the rules he agreed to and he has bad-mouthed the university. That doesn't make sense why he would have any resentment toward the Y. He is very lucky he wasn't kicked out sooner. I respect the rule to be in the Hall they need to be a graduate as well.
As great as we was he did not put BYU on the map. The ball was already rolling. They had great coaches and as time indicated it was already a great system and he had some very good predecessors.
But McMahon was not a great represantative of BYU. He was a poor representative of BYU; he mocked the rules he agreed to and he has bad-mouthed the university. That doesn't make sense why he would have any resentment toward the Y. He is very lucky he wasn't kicked out sooner. I respect the rule to be in the Hall they need to be a graduate as well.
As great as we was he did not put BYU on the map. The ball was already rolling. They had great coaches and as time indicated it was already a great system and he had some very good predecessors.
Comments continue below
BYU should make do. | 1:23 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I'm sure if he went to school for a semester to get those 9 credits and
graduate, BYU would gladly induct him into the Hall of Fame.
I'm sure it would provide some amusement for his classmates and the media.
However, what BYU you did to Jim was wrong. They know it, We know it. There is no question about it.
If he isn't willing to complete the degree if they aren't willing to accept his enrollment, they should make an effort for some concessions.
They should right the wrongs, THEY created.
I'm sure it would provide some amusement for his classmates and the media.
However, what BYU you did to Jim was wrong. They know it, We know it. There is no question about it.
If he isn't willing to complete the degree if they aren't willing to accept his enrollment, they should make an effort for some concessions.
They should right the wrongs, THEY created.
To AZBYUFan | 1:38 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
It doesn't make that he would resent BYU? They ignored all his reported
rule-breaking as long as it suited them, then kicked him out the moment he was
no longer eligible to play football for them--half a semester's worth of
credits short of graduation. That seems more than a little self-serving of the
Y. I'm a huge BYU fan, but I'm not going to pretend they're
faultless.
BYUFAN | 1:51 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Jim McMahon was a great quarterback, but he most certainly broke rules left and
right. It is a miracle he didn't get kicked out earlier. He failed to
graduate, he actually got kicked out, and for that reason alone, he fails to
qualify for Hall of Fame or jersey retirement.
However, will all of these years behind him, I'm confident if he chose to fulfill the requirements by applying to BYU and finishing his degree, BYU would allow Holmoe to talk them into letting him finish, as long as he agreed to abide by the honor code.
If McMahon will agree to, and abide by the honor code and finish his degree, why not? But if he refuses, why on earth should BYU give him an honor he didn't deserve, nor did he earn?
However, will all of these years behind him, I'm confident if he chose to fulfill the requirements by applying to BYU and finishing his degree, BYU would allow Holmoe to talk them into letting him finish, as long as he agreed to abide by the honor code.
If McMahon will agree to, and abide by the honor code and finish his degree, why not? But if he refuses, why on earth should BYU give him an honor he didn't deserve, nor did he earn?
Chicago Cougar | 2:02 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Being QB of a Super Bowl Champion team and getting voted into the college hall
of fame would seem to rate higher for McMahon than being in the BYU hall of
fame.
I was at BYU during his senior year and didn't know he was kicked out following the Holiday bowl...seems like strange timing.
Some things are set in stone at BYU....you can't get a real Diet Coke on campus and you need a degree to get into the hall of fame.
I have two degrees from BYU and would be more than happy to give Jim one!!
McMahon has never pretended to be anyone than who he actually is....if BYU has a true athletic hall of fame they should let him in.....and everyone can just let go of the past....let it go....seems like I heard that in a conference talk once!
I was at BYU during his senior year and didn't know he was kicked out following the Holiday bowl...seems like strange timing.
Some things are set in stone at BYU....you can't get a real Diet Coke on campus and you need a degree to get into the hall of fame.
I have two degrees from BYU and would be more than happy to give Jim one!!
McMahon has never pretended to be anyone than who he actually is....if BYU has a true athletic hall of fame they should let him in.....and everyone can just let go of the past....let it go....seems like I heard that in a conference talk once!
Craig | 2:14 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
McMahon was a great player, no disputing that.
But he was someone who despised the University and its traditions and he openly flaunted his rule-breaking. He also spoke badly of the University many times.
Ok, I hold no grudge against him, but why does he have to blame everything on BYU? What does BYU owe him? If he wanted to be a free spirit and disregard the rules, he ought to be mature enough to realize the consequences.
But if he wants in the hall, it's easy. Get the 9 credits and graduate. Or does he still think the rules don't apply to him..
But he was someone who despised the University and its traditions and he openly flaunted his rule-breaking. He also spoke badly of the University many times.
Ok, I hold no grudge against him, but why does he have to blame everything on BYU? What does BYU owe him? If he wanted to be a free spirit and disregard the rules, he ought to be mature enough to realize the consequences.
But if he wants in the hall, it's easy. Get the 9 credits and graduate. Or does he still think the rules don't apply to him..
Don't know | 2:48 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I'm not sure how much McMahon really cares to be in the BYU hall of fame.
I'm sure his father cares, but I don't think there was any love lost
between McMahon and the University when he left (or was kicked out or whatever).
The guy was an amazing QB, probably one of the best to ever play the college
game, but he would have never made it on today's team. Expectations and
standards are too high. He would have been successful anywhere, I am sure, and
I'm happy that he was a part of our history, but unless he wants to finish
his last few credits I think he'll forever be on the outside looking in.
Except I don't think he even cares to look in. BYU courses online
aren't hard...just ask half of USC's football team!
Saudi Cougar | 2:55 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Maybe helping Jim MacMahon to finish his degree and be admitted to the Cougar
Hall of Fame might help to heal some old wounds. He was certainly a fantastic
football player during his time at BYU Provo.
Anonymous | 3:28 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
He obeyed enough rules,they didn't throw him out so his demeanor
shouldn't be a factor. However, he didn't graduate, bottom line, he
shouldn't be there unless other non graduates are in there.
All Knowing | 4:25 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
All BYU officials knew of the behavior of Jim McMahon's since the beginning
of his career at BYU. They all turned their hears. Winning was more important. I
know this for a fact. It still happens today in many cases. You think the large
portion of young college kids are going to follow such a strict rule with
absolutism? Come on what a joke.
If it weren' for Jim McMahon, BYU would not be on the map like it is today. Surely he is not perfect but he did so much for BYU football. It is time BYU stops casting stones and lets the star athlete in as a hall of fame member and retire his jersey. I am sure he is very prideful and just wants to feel appreciated after all he has done for BYU football.
I cannot believe that this is even a topic. But then again nothing surprises me with the behavior of people within religion.
If it weren' for Jim McMahon, BYU would not be on the map like it is today. Surely he is not perfect but he did so much for BYU football. It is time BYU stops casting stones and lets the star athlete in as a hall of fame member and retire his jersey. I am sure he is very prideful and just wants to feel appreciated after all he has done for BYU football.
I cannot believe that this is even a topic. But then again nothing surprises me with the behavior of people within religion.
angel c | 4:35 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
BYU could grant him an Honorary Degree Or he could complete the nine hours via
internet for his Father and forget BYU's slight of him. They did not
discipline him until he was no longer eligable to play football seems like they
got what they wanted and forgot that his education should have come before
football. Now days they do make the education of athletes the first priority. I
hope for the sake of his Father he just takes the easy rode and knocks out the
nine hours in a summer session and BYU places him in the Hall of Fame. Let the
past be in the past and Honor your Father. It is obvious your father loves you
very much. I hope this will put a little reason into an emotional issue. I am a
mom who loves her boys also.
Let's get the facts | 4:57 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
As I recall from one of the history of BYU sports books I have read McMahon cut
his losses and disappeared so he wouldn't be kicked out of BYU and hurt his
chances of an NFL career. Let's clear this up before any other matters are
worked on. There are lots of options for him to finish his nine credits and
never set foot on campus if he is interested in one more gift of glory.
XZoobie | 5:18 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Just think Holiday Bowl...BYU/SMU...that was all McMahon...McMahon should have
been MVP of the Bears win over the Patriots in the Superbowl. I don't know
that he'll ever get his due, but he is hands down the best quarterback BYU
ever had. Nobody comes close. So Jim, if you're reading this, just suck it
up a teeny tiny bit, finish your nine hours and get your due. You never know,
you might find an avalanche of support. A lot of people (including me) loved
you at BYU.
BYULifer | 5:27 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Great QB...no question. Bad attitude...no question. In one of his very first
press conferences after leaving BYU, Jim's opening gesture was to hold up a
cup of coffee to the camera and say "finally", to which everyone in
the press corp laughed. It's not about the coffee. It's about the
deliberate lack of integrity/respect that he loved to put on display. I was a
student athlete at the same time Jim was there. I saw it all. If he wants the
honor than he should finally show some respect for the institution that gave him
the opportunity, comply with the long standing rule and finish his degree. You
would think that after all these years a little humility and gratitude would
have developed. We all bent the rules enough for Jimmy Boy back in the day. If I
had a vote, I would say we don't do it again.
NY | 5:33 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I was always most in awe of McMahon. He was a magician out there. And, of
course, he was the one who FINALLY broke the bowl loss streak with the miracle
bowl victory. Only a guy like McMahon could have pulled that off. He was
definitely BYU's best ever quarterback.
I can sympathize with how he feels about BYU and the way they let him go immediately after they didn't need him any more. I graduated from BYU but not without a tussle with the administraiton. They do not feel like they should be bound by their own policies and promises. Only the students are bound! Amazing. I later attended graduate schools at two other universities. I was very pleased (and surprised) that both schools did exactly what they said they would do -- something I was not accustomed to at BYU.
I can sympathize with how he feels about BYU and the way they let him go immediately after they didn't need him any more. I graduated from BYU but not without a tussle with the administraiton. They do not feel like they should be bound by their own policies and promises. Only the students are bound! Amazing. I later attended graduate schools at two other universities. I was very pleased (and surprised) that both schools did exactly what they said they would do -- something I was not accustomed to at BYU.
No Way | 5:34 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Apparently Jim McMahon senior fails to recognize the nature of the instituion
and what it stands for. Being inducted into the BYU Hall of fame indicates that
you hold the same values as BYU and are a true representative of those
values.
When living in California Jim McMahon was being interviewed by a reporter. Jim was smoking a cigarette and was asked about that by the reporter. Jim's response was, "What they don't know won't hurt them."
Jim was outspoken in his criticism of BYU and the Church. That is certainly not someone who should be represented in the Hall of Fame.
I expect BYU to stand by its standards and refuse to cave in to this diatribe by his father. Jim McMahon certainly never lived up to his word he signed to follow the rules.
Based on my observations and listening to his statements, in my opinion he is a very talented football player, but one with few scruples and a lack of integrity. Not representative of BYU values and standards.
When living in California Jim McMahon was being interviewed by a reporter. Jim was smoking a cigarette and was asked about that by the reporter. Jim's response was, "What they don't know won't hurt them."
Jim was outspoken in his criticism of BYU and the Church. That is certainly not someone who should be represented in the Hall of Fame.
I expect BYU to stand by its standards and refuse to cave in to this diatribe by his father. Jim McMahon certainly never lived up to his word he signed to follow the rules.
Based on my observations and listening to his statements, in my opinion he is a very talented football player, but one with few scruples and a lack of integrity. Not representative of BYU values and standards.
Jeff | 5:49 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
He was the best QB I ever saw play at that school. I loved that guy. Still do. I
hope one day soon if he does not finish his 9 credits, they will retire the
jersey. That should happen. BYU has a new way of retiring a jersey, and this
should have already happened for Mac. Thanks Mac for all the good memories.
Scoobie | 5:52 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Jim McMahon is the luckiest guy in the world. I'm not sure that he fully
recognizes that....but, he should. I'm sure that there isn't a father
out there, who wouldn't do exactly the same thing, given similar
cercumstances. Having lost my own father years ago (1995), I can tally up a
whole laundry list of woulda's, shoulda's and coulda's that I
would gladly correct if given the chance.
MAC, if I could stand before you today and again share a conversation with you..it would be to let you know that you have a lot more friends and fans out here, than you could possibly imagine. They too, want very much to see this happen..... But, we're not asking you to do it for us........do it for the Old Man......
MAC, if I could stand before you today and again share a conversation with you..it would be to let you know that you have a lot more friends and fans out here, than you could possibly imagine. They too, want very much to see this happen..... But, we're not asking you to do it for us........do it for the Old Man......
True Blue | 6:02 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Jim McMahon deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. He represented BYU football with
greatness. Give him what he earned. The right to be known as one of the great
football players of BYU. That is what the Hall of Fame represents.
Cougar Pride | 6:10 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I love BYU but I agree with his dad. Everyone knows BYU looked the other way
when it came to Jim breaking rules. That was because he was winning games. It is
sad that they kicked him out after he was used up for them. It is not a serious
hall of fame without Jim in it!
eastcoastfan | 6:18 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I watched the Miracle Bowl and loved the confidence of Jim. He truly was a
great quarterback. I was troubled by his lack of loyalty to BYU as the years
went by--his comments etc. I do not think he is a very good representative BYU.
That said has he met the criteria to be in the Hall of Fame? Does one get
taken out of the hall if they go inactive in church or are not a member of the
church. If that were the case I am sure there are a few of those. I wish Jim
and his family well. He was such fun to watch.
Chip | 6:24 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
So give him an honary bachelors degree and let's get it done. I don't
like much of what he did off the field but on the field he was great. Jim
McMahon seems to be a good family man and I think there is grounds that BYU can
bury the hatchet and let him in.
Eugene | 6:36 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
As BYU football lover, don't require the graduation rule to be recognized
as a great football player for the Cougs. As an LDS supporter of BYU, I
can't condone the way Jim flaunted the rules even though he was probably
the greatest QB we have ever had.
Think of this, even if the rule were relaxed and McMahan was inducted, do you really believe he would even attend the ceremony? I think not! He would probably have his dad accept it on his behalf or maybe even turn down the honor to show his lack of respect for the institution that educated him and showcased him for his pro career.
Tough call and as always with McMahon, the outcome would be unpredictable.
Think of this, even if the rule were relaxed and McMahan was inducted, do you really believe he would even attend the ceremony? I think not! He would probably have his dad accept it on his behalf or maybe even turn down the honor to show his lack of respect for the institution that educated him and showcased him for his pro career.
Tough call and as always with McMahon, the outcome would be unpredictable.
Nebraska Cougar | 6:58 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
McMahon was a great player. However, he didn't seem to appreciate what BYU
did for him. His fondest memory of BYU was "seeing it in his rear view
mirror." I'm surprised he has any interest in being part of anything
associated with BYU. If he's truly interested, let him meet the
requirements expected of everyone inducted into the Hall of Fame. Personally, I
think he also owes the university a public apology.
come on Jim... | 7:00 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
finish your degree. Put your pride aside and do it. You were never a quitter on
the gridiron why be a quitter on your degree? We all want you in the Hall of
Fame. But it's up to you to be the one to finally play by the rules... and
the rules say you need to get that degree.
You're not afraid are you?
You're not afraid are you?
PullYour Heads Out | 7:07 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
The wonderful "Y". It takes players to put you on the map 12:53am
poster, not a coaching staff. If I was McMahon I would tell them to jam it. What
does that mean to him? He has the one that counts. The NCAA HALL OF FAME. Small
minds do small things.
Unfortunate !!!!!!!! | 7:11 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
It's very interesting that BYU turns a deaf ear to the rules while McMahon
was playing football, but once they got all they could out of him, they threw
him out with the trash. HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HYPOCRITICAL thing done by the
school and it has happened many times. The only reason this Utah Valley native
is not a cougar fan is because of the hypocrisy shown over and over again.
I support McMahon jr. in not wanting to let BYU have the privilege of retiring his number. If I were him, I would complete my degree at University of Utah and ask that they retire my number as the greatest QB ever to graduate from the U.
I support McMahon jr. in not wanting to let BYU have the privilege of retiring his number. If I were him, I would complete my degree at University of Utah and ask that they retire my number as the greatest QB ever to graduate from the U.
Dick George | 7:14 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Who didn't love Jim McMahon's performance as a quarterback? However
for the sake of our youth we need to look to something longer term than fame.
Graduation is Jim McMahon's ticket to the BYU Hall of Fame.
Double Standard | 7:33 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
It is interesting to read comments by those who say he isn't worthy of the
BYU hall of fame because of his behavior. If that is the case, he
shouldn't have been allowed to play. If he lived the code well enough to
suit up, how is not eligible for the hall?
I am a BYU grad, and the double standard that is applied is what keeps me from being a fan. Bronco almost had me, until he started recruiting players while they were on a mission.
I am a BYU grad, and the double standard that is applied is what keeps me from being a fan. Bronco almost had me, until he started recruiting players while they were on a mission.
OK Cougar Fan | 7:36 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
BYU is subject to star treatment as well. They hold on to a guy long enough for
him to win as many football games as he is eligible to and then, when
they've exhausted that, they kick him out. He's only worth the
headache if he's helping the team.
Great quarterback, yes. Arrogant and prideful, yes. I wouldn't call him a team player. He didn't care about the school or its image. He cared about winning for himself and to beat the other team.
Does he deserve the hall? Absolutely. In this case it seems both sides are to blame to some degree.
Great quarterback, yes. Arrogant and prideful, yes. I wouldn't call him a team player. He didn't care about the school or its image. He cared about winning for himself and to beat the other team.
Does he deserve the hall? Absolutely. In this case it seems both sides are to blame to some degree.
RichM | 7:53 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Yes, it can be said that BYU football and the Univerity got what they wanted out
of Jim Jr. but in all fairness, Jim Jr got what he wanted out of BYU also. He
wanted to and did play for the perfect football system for him. As a graet
young football player and yet foolhardy young man, Jim also had a disire to
"stick 'em in the eye" or "one up'em" and show the
school system that he was above all others and they would have to give in to him
and let him win this "game of will". As a young unwise man, Jim felt
the school thought it had the last laugh. So he went along to show them that he
would have the last laugh by putting them down at every opportunity.
To Jim, just as you used the rules of football on the field to win footbal games; now with you age, maturity and wisdom use the rules to get this great honor for yourself, your father and your family. In fact you will be surprised that even getting the degree it self will a great feeling to you.
To Jim, just as you used the rules of football on the field to win footbal games; now with you age, maturity and wisdom use the rules to get this great honor for yourself, your father and your family. In fact you will be surprised that even getting the degree it self will a great feeling to you.
Buckeye Fan | 7:54 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
What is being lost here is a father's dieing wish. I'm sure if you
heard both sides of the story, you would say that both, the institute and the
individual, were wrong. Jim was wrong in not showing respect for the school.
If he wanted to breaking the rules, fine. But don't flaunt it. As for the
school, turning your eyes and ears in the opposite direction...until you
don't need his services anymore. Unacceptible. In my eyes the institute
is no better than the player being held out.
But a father's wish before he dies...irreplaceable. Jim, if my father made a plea like this, as your father has done, I would do everything in my power to make his wish happen. If you wanted this for yourself, you would have already gotten the 9 credits. But you don't. Do it for your dad. Like he said, we don't know how long we have on this earth. What a gift you could give him. It may sound like your dad wants it for himself...he doesn't. He wants it for his son...just like every father alive would want. Jim, he's doing it for you...now do it for your father.
But a father's wish before he dies...irreplaceable. Jim, if my father made a plea like this, as your father has done, I would do everything in my power to make his wish happen. If you wanted this for yourself, you would have already gotten the 9 credits. But you don't. Do it for your dad. Like he said, we don't know how long we have on this earth. What a gift you could give him. It may sound like your dad wants it for himself...he doesn't. He wants it for his son...just like every father alive would want. Jim, he's doing it for you...now do it for your father.
Bury the Hatchet | 7:57 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Both sides need to bury the hatchet and work together to make this happen.
I was at the Holiday Bowl and Jim McMahon IS the best quarterback ever to play for BYU. One of the greatest moments in BYU football history was created almost single-handedly, by Jim McMahon. Steve Young and Ty Detmer were great, but there's no question that if Jim McMahon had started 4 years, Ty Detmer never would have held the record for the most yards passing in a career. The record would have been untouchable.
BYU needs to extend a hand, offer to help Jim in anyway they can for him to finish his degree, AND, they need to offer and apology for the way he was treated following the Holiday Bowl.
Jim should accept the apology, and offer an apology in return, for flaunting the rules that he agreed to follow when he enrolled at BYU, then work with BYU to finish his degree.
Jim deserves to be in the BYU Hall of Fame, but both sides need to work together to make it happen the right way.
I was at the Holiday Bowl and Jim McMahon IS the best quarterback ever to play for BYU. One of the greatest moments in BYU football history was created almost single-handedly, by Jim McMahon. Steve Young and Ty Detmer were great, but there's no question that if Jim McMahon had started 4 years, Ty Detmer never would have held the record for the most yards passing in a career. The record would have been untouchable.
BYU needs to extend a hand, offer to help Jim in anyway they can for him to finish his degree, AND, they need to offer and apology for the way he was treated following the Holiday Bowl.
Jim should accept the apology, and offer an apology in return, for flaunting the rules that he agreed to follow when he enrolled at BYU, then work with BYU to finish his degree.
Jim deserves to be in the BYU Hall of Fame, but both sides need to work together to make it happen the right way.
sally ann | 7:58 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
After leaving BYU, Jim made some pretty nasty comments about his BYU experience.
I don't think he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. He was a great
quarter back but did'nt control his mouth. A player who makes it into the
Hall of Fame should be a great example in all areas.
Bob in line | 8:01 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Notice that the basis for this article was his father, not the quarterback. I
doubt McMahon wants it.
We all know people like Jim McMahon, jr. He is feisty, likes a good grudge and is motivated by it. If they gave him the honor he would likely not show up and/or just moan and groan about how bad BYU was.
One thing that Jim should consider in his ingratitude towards BYU, what other school would have given him the chance BYU did? Remember back then most schools ran some version of the wishbone. Throwing the football 45 times was still a BYU/Lavelle Edwards phenomina. Had he gone to Utah he would have thrown the ball 15-20 times a game. Had he gone to SMU, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Georgia, etc he would have thrown the ball 15 times or less.
He likely never would have played for the Bears if it weren't for his days at BYU, not some other school.
Good quarterback, I'm sure a great guy, he should go online, get his three classes and get it over with. If he doesn't it really must not matter that much to him.
Still love that play against SMU.
We all know people like Jim McMahon, jr. He is feisty, likes a good grudge and is motivated by it. If they gave him the honor he would likely not show up and/or just moan and groan about how bad BYU was.
One thing that Jim should consider in his ingratitude towards BYU, what other school would have given him the chance BYU did? Remember back then most schools ran some version of the wishbone. Throwing the football 45 times was still a BYU/Lavelle Edwards phenomina. Had he gone to Utah he would have thrown the ball 15-20 times a game. Had he gone to SMU, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Georgia, etc he would have thrown the ball 15 times or less.
He likely never would have played for the Bears if it weren't for his days at BYU, not some other school.
Good quarterback, I'm sure a great guy, he should go online, get his three classes and get it over with. If he doesn't it really must not matter that much to him.
Still love that play against SMU.
Pocatello Cougar | 8:09 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I'm not upset at the fact McMahon was booted out of school; rather,
I'm still upset they waited util his eligibility was up. Sure, there's
a chance that prior to his eligibility expiring, all the school had was
"suspicions" and that something verifiable came to light after the
Cougars beat Washington State 38-37.
But I doubt it.
Yes, BYU used him but he used the school too. He was a Catholic kid living in Utah -- he knew how different he was from Mormons and he knew he would have a difficult time. But he went there anyway. If memory serves, Weber State was the other school that offered him a scholarship. Why didn't he go there? He certainly would have fit in better.
Jim McMahon has always been about Jim McMahon, but that's okay; I'm sure many LDS players have been just as arrogant and self-centered. What's the difference? The LDS players felt no compunction to throw the school and coaches "under the bus."
Let McMahon show regret for his lack of maturity,let him apologize in public, let him get his degree, and then BYU fans will welcome him into the hall of fame.
But not a moment before.
But I doubt it.
Yes, BYU used him but he used the school too. He was a Catholic kid living in Utah -- he knew how different he was from Mormons and he knew he would have a difficult time. But he went there anyway. If memory serves, Weber State was the other school that offered him a scholarship. Why didn't he go there? He certainly would have fit in better.
Jim McMahon has always been about Jim McMahon, but that's okay; I'm sure many LDS players have been just as arrogant and self-centered. What's the difference? The LDS players felt no compunction to throw the school and coaches "under the bus."
Let McMahon show regret for his lack of maturity,let him apologize in public, let him get his degree, and then BYU fans will welcome him into the hall of fame.
But not a moment before.
Urroner | 8:12 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
All Knowing sed:
"I cannot believe that this is even a topic. But then again nothing surprises me with the behavior of people within religion. "
Talk about non-sequitur.
And Unfortunte, your post makes even less sense. It seems that you are saying that BYU need McMahon's permission to retire his number in your last paragraph.
"I cannot believe that this is even a topic. But then again nothing surprises me with the behavior of people within religion. "
Talk about non-sequitur.
And Unfortunte, your post makes even less sense. It seems that you are saying that BYU need McMahon's permission to retire his number in your last paragraph.
Scoobie | 8:20 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
REF: PullYour Heads Out 7:07 a.m.
By really putting forth what must have been a tremendous amount of thought and spewing forth that little dittie... you certainly proved your own point......not quite what we're looking for.
Prodigal son or lost sheep.....is of no consequence. However, there is no mistaking the facts. That being.... that even as a non member Jim McMahon is a part of our fold. Just because he was and still is different... is not a standsrd sufficient to undue his accomplishments. Fully read the article and give it some thought before making any statement. Jim McMahon is not here on his own behalf.....I wish he were. His father has come forth with a simple desire that is not unusual nor is it one standing alone. It's shared by many thousands of us..... throughout the world. Who more could atest and speak for us than Mike Holmoe. Those of you responding to this article....put some thought into your responses with a little respect not only for Jim's father but for Jim himself.
By really putting forth what must have been a tremendous amount of thought and spewing forth that little dittie... you certainly proved your own point......not quite what we're looking for.
Prodigal son or lost sheep.....is of no consequence. However, there is no mistaking the facts. That being.... that even as a non member Jim McMahon is a part of our fold. Just because he was and still is different... is not a standsrd sufficient to undue his accomplishments. Fully read the article and give it some thought before making any statement. Jim McMahon is not here on his own behalf.....I wish he were. His father has come forth with a simple desire that is not unusual nor is it one standing alone. It's shared by many thousands of us..... throughout the world. Who more could atest and speak for us than Mike Holmoe. Those of you responding to this article....put some thought into your responses with a little respect not only for Jim's father but for Jim himself.
Anonymous | 8:23 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Jim is finally paying the consequences for his behavior. BYU should have kicked
him out sooner and it was a mistake, however, to wrongs don't make a right.
To even consider letting him in the Hall now would be another mistake. He
embaressed the school, the church and the fans who tried to defend him. Throw
the bum out!
Not about BYU | 8:26 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
I don't think this is about BYU at this point. They're stance
isn't going to change. This is about honoring the wish of your father
while he's alive to see it by putting aside your pride for a while and
completing 9 lousy credits.
Do it Jim! I'm with the poster above, you have way more fans and support in the BYU community than you realize. Swallow your pride, do the credits, give your dad the satisfacion of seeing it!
Same goes for Buck, Elewonibi, Hudson and Morrell! Finish what you started! You were all, McMahon included, my idols of BYU football as a young man.
Do it Jim! I'm with the poster above, you have way more fans and support in the BYU community than you realize. Swallow your pride, do the credits, give your dad the satisfacion of seeing it!
Same goes for Buck, Elewonibi, Hudson and Morrell! Finish what you started! You were all, McMahon included, my idols of BYU football as a young man.
To: Double Standard | 8:28 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Get over the missionary recruiting. He's said time and again that he
doesn't pursue missionaries from other programs UNLESS they initiate the
contact. Once the missionaries inquire, Bronco would be dumb not to pursue them
if they're worth a pinch.
Scoobie | 8:29 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
Sorry...Correction to my last post "Tom Holmoe"
Vernal Roid | 8:33 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
When I was a youg kid I had heard about some of the antics that Jim was able to
pull off, I'm sure B.Y.U just over looked them. Jim never catered to anyone
and probally never will. I wonder if it was that Jim was never a member of the
church along with his Kenney Stabler type attitude that really bothered BYU, I
say If you preach forgivness this would really be a good time to show it, BYU
Football Hall of Fame without Jim McMahon Would be like the NBA hall of fame
without Michael Jordan.
Do the correct thing let him in if he'll come.
Do the correct thing let him in if he'll come.
I wonder | 8:37 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
what the whole story is behind his dismissal following the Holiday Bowl.
I'd dare bet that if the truth were known his leaving the school was a
"mutual agreement" to part ways as opposed to a "kicking
out". I'd guess the school offered him the opportunity to finish his
last semester if he'd play by the rules. He couldn't use BYU any more
for football so he likely told them he wasn't going to play by the rules,
so BYU ended the relationship.
I don't know any facts...I'm just speculating that this is probably pretty close to what happened. If this is true though, then that puts even more onus on McMahon to bury the hatchet and just "get this thing done" for his dad's benefit.
I don't know any facts...I'm just speculating that this is probably pretty close to what happened. If this is true though, then that puts even more onus on McMahon to bury the hatchet and just "get this thing done" for his dad's benefit.
Sally in Cali | 8:38 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
If you want to see a contrast to the old "look the other way" coaching
days, visit a great story about BYU football on Yahoo Sports (search: Bronco
Mendenhall). This will give you some perspective. BYU football's current
success, to a large degree, is directly related to how well athletes truly honor
the honor code they all agreed to keep. BYU, I hope, will never be like other
D1 schools, and McMahon knew this when he agreed to play there. He was a
supremely talented, foolish, cry baby at BYU, and unless he finishes his degree,
if only to honor his father, he is still a immature, stubborn boy--even in his
fifties.
sob | 8:49 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
all you sactimonious chest thumpers about rules being rules, you didn't
seem to care when he was winning games. this is one of the reasons your "
quest for perfection" makes you legends in your own minds but makes every
one who knows the truth of your ways laugh
Indycoug | 8:50 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
"There are a number of star athletes who are not in BYU's Hall of Fame
because they didn't graduate, including Outland Trophy winners Jason Buck
and Mo Elewonibi, All-American tight end Gordon Hudson and All-American
defensive back Kyle Morrell." If BYU's best linemen, defensive back,
and one of the top tight ends can't get in because they didn't finish,
what's the big deal. If he wants in he can get in easily. I'm glad
to see all the haters taking yet another opportunity to bash BYU. Thanks,
without you we would only have 1/4 the comments on here. I'm sure Dnews is
happy for all of your hits.
Get the degree Jim. | 8:54 a.m. Oct. 5, 2008
What about Honorary degrees? I am sure a College Football hall of famer and
Super bowl winner qualifies for a phys ed degree.
9 Credits isn't very much to get either. Sounds like Holmoe is willing.. Come on Jim I want to see you in the BYU hall-of-Fame. Time for BYU and McMahon to make this right on both sides...it would be great publicity for both.
McMahon was the best BYU quarterback and put BYU on the map. He deserves it more than any previous or current players. Do the right thing.
McMahon supplied LDS missionaries in St. Louis with beds for their aprtments when they had none. I understand his wife and kids are LDS and he attends church during holidays.
9 Credits isn't very much to get either. Sounds like Holmoe is willing.. Come on Jim I want to see you in the BYU hall-of-Fame. Time for BYU and McMahon to make this right on both sides...it would be great publicity for both.
McMahon was the best BYU quarterback and put BYU on the map. He deserves it more than any previous or current players. Do the right thing.
McMahon supplied LDS missionaries in St. Louis with beds for their aprtments when they had none. I understand his wife and kids are LDS and he attends church during holidays.
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