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Arizona defends evidence
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Jancis M. Andrews | 4:12 p.m. Oct. 3, 2008
Why are lawyers attempting to defend this pig? They know he's had sex with
underage girls -- they've seen the photos of him having a sexy kiss with a
12-year-old, and they know he's forced underage girls to "marry"
older men who are going to get them into bed and use them as concubines in their
harems. Men who have sex with underage kids are pedophiles, and such disgusting,
illegal acts are INDEFENSIBLE.
Why the Title? | 4:37 p.m. Oct. 3, 2008
This doesn't sound like defending the search, it sounds more like pushing
aside a sticky issue. Arizona merely pushed it aside, neither defending or
supporting it.
Joey | 4:53 p.m. Oct. 3, 2008
Whether they believed they were looking for a victim and perpetrator or not,
which is doubtful, the probable cause they had in hand to continue their search
-- two pregnant adults and a smattering of testimony about general beliefs in
marriage at whatever age by a handful of randomly selected young girls who were
questioned involuntarily and without cause in the first place -- was
insufficient to warrant the search of the numerous homes of the families that
lived there, as well as the church, and other buildings at the ranch. The ranch
was not one household. It was a community of distinct family households, and no
individualized cause was presented nor warrants obtained to search any of those
respective households, houses, apartments, trailers, or otherwise separate
family living quarters.
Comments continue below
Puzzled | 5:47 p.m. Oct. 3, 2008
Ok.
So the guy is convicted of participating in a rape because he performed a wedding ceremony.
Who was the rapist? Has that man been charged? Is he in jail? If not, why not? How can another man be convicted of being an accomplice to something that no one else has been convicted of?
For example: I have a friend that DOESN'T steal a car, but I am charged and convicted of being an accomplice to grand theft auto. Is that insane? The friend hasn't even been convicted of stealing the car.
I'm not saying whether the crime happened or not, I'm just trying to figure out how the accomplice is convicted before the perpetrator.
Thanks!
So the guy is convicted of participating in a rape because he performed a wedding ceremony.
Who was the rapist? Has that man been charged? Is he in jail? If not, why not? How can another man be convicted of being an accomplice to something that no one else has been convicted of?
For example: I have a friend that DOESN'T steal a car, but I am charged and convicted of being an accomplice to grand theft auto. Is that insane? The friend hasn't even been convicted of stealing the car.
I'm not saying whether the crime happened or not, I'm just trying to figure out how the accomplice is convicted before the perpetrator.
Thanks!
To Jancis | 5:57 p.m. Oct. 3, 2008
Under the laws of our great nation, all accused have the right to a lawer, --
even you.
I would like to believe | 6:57 p.m. Oct. 3, 2008
I would like to believe that all accused have the right to a lawyer of their own
choosing, but apparently the FLDS do not. Barbara Walthers has forced a 17 year
old girl to have a lawyer she doesn't like, and dismissed a lawyer her
mother chose to defend herself. Are we talking about the laws of the same great
nation?
zxcvbnm | 8:50 p.m. Oct. 3, 2008
Looks like Arizona won't use the "evidence" now but wants to leave the door open if they need it.
I am not sure that a man on the run voluntarily abandoned anything. Jeffs was in and out of YFZ and other safe houses that he controled while a fugative. Being in prison is certainly not voluntary abandonment and his denial of leadership was as the result of a mental breakdown.
Looks like the case is a bit complicated and Arizona is satisfied waiting to see how the Texas mess pans out. Besides.....Jeffs is on ice for ten to 60 more years as things stand today. Why waste money locking the guy up when he is locked up now.
If the State loses.....I bet they bring in Texas evidence.
arizonaindian | 9:42 p.m. Oct. 3, 2008
This whole situation is Insane! How many lawyers will become very rich and
accomplish NOTHING ?
Gal50 | 9:54 p.m. Oct. 3, 2008
The reason this case has to be prosecuted is that Jeffs has a minimal ten year
sentence. Jeffs appears to be a person who should not get out of jail and
currently there is no guarantee of this.
Accomplices are often tried before the primary criminal. We have a case in which a man allegedly starved a child and his wife cooperated. She is in jail and he doesn't yet have a trial date. We have another gang rape case in which two men were convicted, one was declared innocent and another was just arrested. So, it is understandable that Jeffs could be tried first. Jeffs did quite a bit more than perform the marriage. It appears that he forced the marriage to occur. It certainly wasn't the idea of the male or the female cousin to marry each other.
The court appoints lawyers to represent minor children. They can not have attorneys hired by their parents when the case is CPS vs parents and the subject is the children. It would present a conflict of interest. If the parent hired the attorney, the attorney could be reluctant to testify in the child's best interest and against the parent.
Accomplices are often tried before the primary criminal. We have a case in which a man allegedly starved a child and his wife cooperated. She is in jail and he doesn't yet have a trial date. We have another gang rape case in which two men were convicted, one was declared innocent and another was just arrested. So, it is understandable that Jeffs could be tried first. Jeffs did quite a bit more than perform the marriage. It appears that he forced the marriage to occur. It certainly wasn't the idea of the male or the female cousin to marry each other.
The court appoints lawyers to represent minor children. They can not have attorneys hired by their parents when the case is CPS vs parents and the subject is the children. It would present a conflict of interest. If the parent hired the attorney, the attorney could be reluctant to testify in the child's best interest and against the parent.
Anonymous | 12:35 a.m. Oct. 4, 2008
If someone lures a victime into an alley to be raped, and encourages the
perpetrator to participate in the crime. And then keeps watch and encourages it;
that's rape as an accomplise. When a self righteous pious prophet arranges
a sexual union between a little girl and her adult cousin; performs a ceremony
and then encourages the perpetrator to have sex and children with the victim;
that's rape as an accomplise. When you are accused of the crime and you run
from the consequences instead of defendng your supposed beliefs and way of life;
that's an admission of guilt. The jury simmply heard the evidence and
affirmed one of hundreds of atrocities committed under the guise of religion. If
was only religious material found in TX, why are the church leaders and their
attorneys going to such extraordinary efforts to bury it. The fact is that there
is probably much more evidence of underage unions and their only hope is to
repress the evidence. Where were the fights of hundreds of little girls who
were placed in these illegal and revolting unions. It's just plain wrong.
Always has been and always will and that's hard to defend against. Common
sense.
Trash the fourth amendment | 12:50 a.m. Oct. 4, 2008
The state's case is utterly specious. They sidestep the issue by making
this bogus argument of standing, then seem mysteriously unaware that everything
they have against Jeffs is fruit of the poisonous tree (did they all go to law
school with Barbara Walther?). Are we to believe that you can be thrown in jail,
then your house and neighborhood searched on the basis of a hoax phone call, and
because you were in jail, you have no right to challenge the illegal search? If
so, this will be a great tool for bootstrapping the prosecution of any citizen.
They could trump up a traffic infraction, throw you in jail for thirty days, and
while you�re there, go through your house on the theory
that you abandoned it.
Puzzled | 5:08 a.m. Oct. 4, 2008
Gal50, thanks for your response.
Cats | 8:12 a.m. Oct. 4, 2008
To Puzzled: Yes, the man who actually committed the rape against Elissa Wall
has been charged and is being prosecuted. The sad thing is that he is actually
a victim, himself, of generations of this kind of sick behavior. He was just
doing what Jeffs told him to do.
Obviously the FLDS perpetrators know the evidence that has been seized will prove their guilt. That's why they are trying so hard to get it suppressed.
Warren Jeffs has announced publicly that he is a FRAUD. He came to power by manipulating and strong-arming his members. Now that he has been caught in his crimes, he folded up like a cheap suit.
Jeffs has admitted that he is NOT a prophet, he NEVER was a prophet and he is one of the WICKEDEST men of this dispensation. He's clearly terrified of meeting his maker and, for onece in his life, he's telling the truth.
This sure is a contrast with the way Joseph Smith conducted himself when he was wrongly accused of crimes and in prison. Joseph behaved the way a TRUE prophet would. He never faultered.
It's so sad these people are still in denial about Jeffs.
Obviously the FLDS perpetrators know the evidence that has been seized will prove their guilt. That's why they are trying so hard to get it suppressed.
Warren Jeffs has announced publicly that he is a FRAUD. He came to power by manipulating and strong-arming his members. Now that he has been caught in his crimes, he folded up like a cheap suit.
Jeffs has admitted that he is NOT a prophet, he NEVER was a prophet and he is one of the WICKEDEST men of this dispensation. He's clearly terrified of meeting his maker and, for onece in his life, he's telling the truth.
This sure is a contrast with the way Joseph Smith conducted himself when he was wrongly accused of crimes and in prison. Joseph behaved the way a TRUE prophet would. He never faultered.
It's so sad these people are still in denial about Jeffs.
tigerlily | 9:21 a.m. Oct. 4, 2008
zxcvbnm: arizona can't use illegally obtained evidencee and more than texas
can.
Anonymous | 9:38 a.m. Oct. 4, 2008
And why are they being referred to as Fundamentalist LDS Church in the article?
FLDS. Get it right so you offend fewer people.
keep being puzzled | 10:56 a.m. Oct. 4, 2008
This puzzling issue has been since the beginning of the worlds creation, it is
the battle of good and evil. Why did they crucify our Lord and Savior. Men
flexing thier own power, not doing the right thing when given the chance. God
is at the helm, He will deliver the righteous.
tigerlily | 12:39 p.m. Oct. 4, 2008
Cats: the young man wanted the marriage. the flds know that it was obtaiined
illegally and can't be used. what jeffs said can't be held against him
because he was uder a lot of stress
tigerlily | 12:41 p.m. Oct. 4, 2008
Cats: it's also sad that the judical system used that young man, told him
that he was a victim too and then arrested him.
Brother Jessop | 2:51 p.m. Oct. 4, 2008
Cats, everything you said was/is true. It's a shame that one man (Warren
Jeffs) has led so many astray...
Brother Jessop | 2:56 p.m. Oct. 4, 2008
Tigerlily, Uncle Warren made those statements voluntarily. Being under stress
has nothing to do with it whatsoever. He admitted that he was never a prophet.
Lawyer | 4:16 p.m. Oct. 4, 2008
Thanks for nothing
What I have seen is Utah
No thanks
What I have seen is Utah
No thanks
Cochise | 7:11 p.m. Oct. 4, 2008
Arizona Indian - the answer to your question about how many lawyers will get
rich is - none at all. The lawyers representing the fathers are all volunteers,
the children's attorneys-ad-litem were appointed by the Court, and the
mothers are represented by Legal Aid.
common sense | 7:56 p.m. Oct. 4, 2008
Well since Texas has indicted warren jeffs themselves, he will be supeona to
appear in court from Arizona.
Arizona doesnt have to worry about prosecuting Jeffs, Texas plans on doing it themselves.
Arizona doesnt have to worry about prosecuting Jeffs, Texas plans on doing it themselves.
R | 5:07 a.m. Oct. 6, 2008
Anonymous:
FLDS stands for Fundamentalist [Church of] Latter-Day Saints. You're annoyed over nothing.
FLDS stands for Fundamentalist [Church of] Latter-Day Saints. You're annoyed over nothing.
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