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2 of 3 Utah congressmen vote no on bill
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Disappointed | 1:12 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
It is sad that our local legislators are too worried about their re-election
bids to do what is right for the country as a whole. The only one who did the
right thing isn't up for re-election. The bailout would not have cost the
taxpayer significantly over the long run because most of the troubled securities
that would have been purchased would have paid out. The only threat to
repayment is whether the individual borrowers (the taxpayers themselves) refused
to follow through with their loan obligations. I guess this just shows that
taxpayers don't trust themselves.
Nah, nah, nah... | 1:11 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Goodbye to Chris Cannon!! I am glad that I helped vote him out in the primary
elections. This man does not represent me and doesn't care about his
constituents. Good to see that Matheson and Bishop can listed to the voice of
the people.
Comments continue below
Thanks | 1:14 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
I think the market's reaction to your "NO" vote shows what a
tremendous mistake you are making.
arc | 1:19 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Good Job Cannon...
While I agree that Congress is responsible for part of the mess in the 1st place, for requiring loans to higher risk homeowners, it isn't that simple. The Fed lowered rates for long enough for many people to get lower, variable rate loans, and then the feds raised the rates, 3% in a short few months. That caused many people to not be able to afford the loans. They started failing, and housing values, due to the forclosures, started sliding, which made it worse. Sub-prime mortgages, were like hot potatoes, and no one wanted them. Banks couldn't loan more, as they had these loans they couldn't even sell.
In Utah, that has started to slow down construction financing, and other business loans. When they can't get credit, the companies start failing. Other industries have been effected.
If they buy up the worst of the sub-prime mortgages, (There are reportedly $2 Trillion of them) and interest rates are kept low by the Fed, and most homeowners/taxpayers pay back the loans, the government and the tax payers will be OK.
While I agree that Congress is responsible for part of the mess in the 1st place, for requiring loans to higher risk homeowners, it isn't that simple. The Fed lowered rates for long enough for many people to get lower, variable rate loans, and then the feds raised the rates, 3% in a short few months. That caused many people to not be able to afford the loans. They started failing, and housing values, due to the forclosures, started sliding, which made it worse. Sub-prime mortgages, were like hot potatoes, and no one wanted them. Banks couldn't loan more, as they had these loans they couldn't even sell.
In Utah, that has started to slow down construction financing, and other business loans. When they can't get credit, the companies start failing. Other industries have been effected.
If they buy up the worst of the sub-prime mortgages, (There are reportedly $2 Trillion of them) and interest rates are kept low by the Fed, and most homeowners/taxpayers pay back the loans, the government and the tax payers will be OK.
Undecided | 1:20 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Yeah, maybe politicians are finally "listening" to us, but just to be
re-elected?
Thank You | 1:31 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
It's nice to see representatives doing their job. Let the companies fail.
Americans need to learn responsibility.
Live within your means!
Live within your means!
Argh! | 1:54 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Lamb duck congressman "conservative" votes for the nationalization of
the banking system. You're out, why can't you do the right thing for
once?
Got it right | 1:59 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Matheson and Bishop are listening -- Cannon isn't.
Ridiculous | 2:01 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
This whole thing is absurd. We should never have gotten into this position but
now that we are but letting it get worse will only throw us into an economic
depression that is worse than any of our nightmares.
C.W. | 2:06 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
I'm VERY happy to see the bailout fail! Notice Cannon doesn't mind
voting FOR it, but then he leaves in 2 mos. I DO think that if someone may have
explained the bailout better to the public, it may have had a chance of passing.
But for Bush to just say things like "disastrous, calamitous" was not
very explanatory! I know I'll take a hit in the stock market, but it
wouldn't be as bad as the long-term effects of printing all this worthless
money! The vote REALLY reflects the publics distrust of the president, congress,
and wall street. The emails to Congress were running 90 to 1 against! I would
have thought Bush and Congress would have learned their lesson when they tried
to ramrod the illegal immigration bill through, not to try a fast one on the
public again!
noname | 2:10 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
thank you Rob Bishop... I tell you it is about time our elected officials listen
to whom they were elected by. I will re-elect him because I feel that I already
do my part as a working class American who pay thier bills... on time, lives
within a budget, and feels that capitalism works only at its best when the
government keeps their hands off.
Thank you again
Thank you again
Re: Thank You | 2:08 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Normally, I would agree with your comment - if companies make bad decisions,
then they should pay the price for their bad decisions. If you or I take out a
loan and we can't pay it, then we suffer and nobody bails us out. But,
this whole bailout goes beyond that simple line of thinking.
First off, let me just say that I think the whole bailout offer stinks from the inside out; however, the alternative to not bailing out the banks is a lot worse - the entire banking industry could completely collapse, along with the entire financial market. So, not only would the companies fail that made the made decisions, but many other companies would fail as well since they cannot borrow the money they need to carry them until payments come in. The borrow in the short run. But, if that money dries up, one of two things can happen - either they raise prices, or they close stores, which translates into lost jobs.
I agree people should live within their means. But, for better or worse, the US economy lives on credit.
First off, let me just say that I think the whole bailout offer stinks from the inside out; however, the alternative to not bailing out the banks is a lot worse - the entire banking industry could completely collapse, along with the entire financial market. So, not only would the companies fail that made the made decisions, but many other companies would fail as well since they cannot borrow the money they need to carry them until payments come in. The borrow in the short run. But, if that money dries up, one of two things can happen - either they raise prices, or they close stores, which translates into lost jobs.
I agree people should live within their means. But, for better or worse, the US economy lives on credit.
Interesting | 2:09 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Its interesting to see how the guy who isn't running for re-election voted.
You have to wonder if Bishop and Matheson voted their conscience or
politics(?).
It was really a no win solution I think. This is the very type of situation that requires our Representatives to put politics aside.
It was really a no win solution I think. This is the very type of situation that requires our Representatives to put politics aside.
Kevin in the Terrace | 2:09 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
What are the NO voters smoking?
Cannon is lame | 2:12 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Cannon always votes against his constituents. Let's vote him out in
November!
Oh wait, that's right we already did! smile.
Hurray for they house defeating this bailout!
Oh wait, that's right we already did! smile.
Hurray for they house defeating this bailout!
Grateful | 2:13 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Great work house republicans!
I am a red republican, but Chris Cannon, I never voted for you... Your democrat predicessor was the right guy for the job.
I am a red republican, but Chris Cannon, I never voted for you... Your democrat predicessor was the right guy for the job.
Just don't get it | 2:15 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
What would life be like to view through black and white lenses? We just
don't get it. Research the issues and don't just think this bailout is
wrong. Anyone who voted agaisnt it, just hurt America.
Robb | 2:23 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Clearly this is a time when our Congressmen _shouldn't_ be listening to a
bunch of hotheads calling their offices. We need this bailout to calm things
down before there's _real_ trouble!
I have usually voted Republican, however I have respected and voted for Matheson. His caving in here is causing me to re-think my vote. Pass the bailout!! If you have reservations, you can tweak it later on. We need this before financial panic sets in!
I have usually voted Republican, however I have respected and voted for Matheson. His caving in here is causing me to re-think my vote. Pass the bailout!! If you have reservations, you can tweak it later on. We need this before financial panic sets in!
UtahRez | 2:23 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Now will they have the guts to get rid of Dodd and Frank? Obviously these two
were not looking out for us.
GRATEFUL READER | 2:25 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
THANKS FOR LISTENING TO THE VOICE OF THE PEOPLE YOU REPRESENT.
Mainstreet is toast | 2:26 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
This isn't just a bailout of wallstreet!!!
This is going to kill mainstreet.
As an average citizen we just cant say "wallstreet needs to take responsibility".
Wake up!!
When you don't have a job, or your small business can't get a loan, and your daily expenditures are still climbing in cost you will wish this bill was passed.
This is going to kill mainstreet.
As an average citizen we just cant say "wallstreet needs to take responsibility".
Wake up!!
When you don't have a job, or your small business can't get a loan, and your daily expenditures are still climbing in cost you will wish this bill was passed.
to you libs... | 2:27 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
the fact that you pay no taxes, is one point, but to tell me I need to pay for
your mistakes is another.......what you are asking me to do is a kin to a buying
a car $30k when the car is only worth 3 cents! Losers, losers, losers....let the
banks fail! There will be plenty of other solid institutions waiting to step
forward in the wings if you have solid credit!
Rebublicans created this | 2:29 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Repubs deregulated the market and now sabotage the result of that
deregulation.
HUH??
This is mutiny and purposeful sabotage.
They should be all fired.
On economic policy, don't do what your constituents want. That's like a Calculus teacher dropping the curriculum because his 3rd grader doesn't understand what's being taught.
HUH??
This is mutiny and purposeful sabotage.
They should be all fired.
On economic policy, don't do what your constituents want. That's like a Calculus teacher dropping the curriculum because his 3rd grader doesn't understand what's being taught.
depression | 2:31 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
you are right, we may have a recession! And that means we'll have to work
hard, maybe even get more than one job, earn our living, stop spending what we
don't have, live below our means, save our money, grow gardens, and do
whatever it takes to survive.
We aren't entitled to ANYTHING! Americans in general are spoiled brats, we need to learn how to live without mommy and daddy (govt) always bailing us out when we make mistakes.
We aren't entitled to ANYTHING! Americans in general are spoiled brats, we need to learn how to live without mommy and daddy (govt) always bailing us out when we make mistakes.
Not Asleep | 2:42 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
The ramifications of the bailout are complicated and I haven't had
confidence in anyone's analysis, including all blogs herein for and
against, except two analysts I heard on "For the People" on KVNU in
Cache Valley. Not sure who they were with but they disagreed with the premise
of the bailout and I agreed with them though I can't provide a cogent
explanation on my own behalf. I am pleased with Matheson and Bishop-- their
constituents thought they smelled something rotten in the deal and I did too.
jane | 2:44 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
The bailout is essential to the health and confidence of the market and the
economy. I don't know what Matheson and Bishop are thinking. What a bad
decision on their part.
Terri O | 2:48 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
I'm glad we had at least two 'no' votes considering that was the
will of the people. I listened to 5 knowlegable University professors who all
agreed that we shouldn't bail out. I wouldn't expect anything else
from Cannon....that's one reason he's on his way out.
HAPPY HALLOWEEN | 2:51 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
THIS COUNTRY WAS AGAINST THE BAILOUT, FOR THE FIRST TIME DEM AND REP HAVE DONE A
VERY GOOD JOB TOGETHER!!!
GOOD FOR THE PEOPLE!!!
UTAH REPUBLICANS...DONT CRY!!! IT WAS BETTER, YOU WILL LEARN SOMEDAY!!!
GOOD FOR THE PEOPLE!!!
UTAH REPUBLICANS...DONT CRY!!! IT WAS BETTER, YOU WILL LEARN SOMEDAY!!!
To pro-bailout types... | 2:55 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Printing money to paper over industry wide blunders doesn't help industry
in the long run. You reward fraud, you get more fraud. You reward bad
business, you get more bad business.
Yes, the short term pain might be lessened by taking the "easier" road. But the long term consequences are far far worse. I would liken it to the quick buck or the quick benefit a lie can get you. But we all know it catches up and the consequences are worse when it does than the benefit will yield. To have "strong fundamentals" in the economy like they were saying a few months ago we have to build it right.
You can't build a good economy with shortcuts. We need to stand up, be men, and do the right thing. Let's go through this recession and have new industry players come in and clean up where the old/bad ones screwed up.
Print our way out of it and we'll be looking at $10 gasoline in no time.
Yes, the short term pain might be lessened by taking the "easier" road. But the long term consequences are far far worse. I would liken it to the quick buck or the quick benefit a lie can get you. But we all know it catches up and the consequences are worse when it does than the benefit will yield. To have "strong fundamentals" in the economy like they were saying a few months ago we have to build it right.
You can't build a good economy with shortcuts. We need to stand up, be men, and do the right thing. Let's go through this recession and have new industry players come in and clean up where the old/bad ones screwed up.
Print our way out of it and we'll be looking at $10 gasoline in no time.
Ya'll need to get educated up... | 2:59 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Does anyone living in Utah really have a clue as to what goes on outside the
walls of Zion? By reading these comments, I think it's a safe assumption
to say that people in Utah live in a freakin' fairy land.
Seriously, do any of you have any idea what is going on in the economy? A vote against this bill is a vote for a market collapse. Yes, the bailout stinks and the banks who would be bailed out really do not deserve to be bailed out; however, doing nothing will result in a complete collapse of the banking industry and the entire economy.
Most people do not want this bailout and are against it; however, those who are educated on the facts of the bill recognize what the result will be if we do nothing. Nobody wants this bailout, but most realize the need for the bailout. So, you swallow the bitter bill and move on.
Please understand the issues of the day before you make uneducated comments.
Seriously, do any of you have any idea what is going on in the economy? A vote against this bill is a vote for a market collapse. Yes, the bailout stinks and the banks who would be bailed out really do not deserve to be bailed out; however, doing nothing will result in a complete collapse of the banking industry and the entire economy.
Most people do not want this bailout and are against it; however, those who are educated on the facts of the bill recognize what the result will be if we do nothing. Nobody wants this bailout, but most realize the need for the bailout. So, you swallow the bitter bill and move on.
Please understand the issues of the day before you make uneducated comments.
Terry | 3:09 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Once your local bank fails - you lose your job because the company you work for
cannot get credit - your house value plumets due to no buyer can get a mortgage
- and your IRA/401K tanks 75%......Everyone will be so happy our
"representatives" did NOT do the right thing, but did the politacal
thing. Wake up Utahns this is not a Wall Street bailout - this is a Main Street
issue that will effect you. This was the one hope that our politicians could
not have the courage to support! God help us all!!!!
Go away Chris | 3:12 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Just another example of Mr. Cannon and his being out of touch with the people in
his district. Can he leave early from office, and can we get Mr. Chaffetz in
there to show some real leadership?
Bailout | 3:14 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Why not divide the $700 billion among homeowners who still owe on their
mortgages? That would amount to $300,000 to $400,000 each. Then, homeowners
could use that money to pay off their mortgages.
It would cost the same as the Wall Street bailout. And it would solve the mortgage crisis.
It would cost the same as the Wall Street bailout. And it would solve the mortgage crisis.
Think about it | 3:17 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
The interim CEO of Washington Mutual will be given $11M for about 10 days work
while presiding over a bank that went broke. For those who are math challenged
that's over a million dollars a day! You want to see where the problem lies
use this clown as an example. Greed did this, and they want the taxpayer to
bail these idiots out? Good for the "NO" vote! Let those chickens
come back to roost and hold them responsible!
We'll be fine | 3:28 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Ya'll and Terry. With airlines failing you still get around, right? The
politics are listening to the constituents - most of whom are sophisticated
enough to understand this stuff
Righteous indignation | 3:26 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Lousy Democrats--uhh...I mean, lousy Republicans--uh...I mean, lousy socialist
liberals--uh...I mean, lousy right-wing neocons--uh...I mean, lousy
Mormons--uh...I mean, lousy anti-Mormons--uh...I mean...
(Oh, I'm so confused! I'm on the Deseret News message board so I need to make a wild accusation about somebody, but I don't know who!)
(Oh, I'm so confused! I'm on the Deseret News message board so I need to make a wild accusation about somebody, but I don't know who!)
Un-educated????? | 3:29 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Just because the bailout got a "no" vote doesn't mean that
Americans are uneducated and don't understand what this could mean to Wall
Street and Main Street. Essentailly, it's a message to Congress and the
White House that we want them to come up with something better. We want a cure
for the problem, not just a band-aid!
To:Ya'll need to get educated up | 3:35 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Gee, you must be really smart. You seem a little worried like maybe you lived
beyond your means.
Let the free market ring! | 3:39 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
While victory will be short-lived and this will eventually be passed, I wanted
to thank Matheson and Bishop for voting against this atrocity. Hopefully they
continue to listen to their infuriated constituents and keep their money where
their original vote is.
It�s nice to see that there some in D. C. who understands that the "cure" is significantly worse than disease and that Congress is selling our financial souls to the Devil by passing this piece of criminal legislation. The markets must be allowed to work this issue out without government intervention.
Housing prices must be allowed to fall for economic health and long-term stability to be realized. If the market can set the price on the way up, it has to be allowed to set it on the way down.
Companies who aren�t leveraged to the hilt and individuals who can demonstrate an ability to repay their loan will be able to secure loans. That�s the way it should be.
This bailout will maintain inflated markets, broken financial systems, encourage reckless behavior, and create an even bigger problem in the very near future. However, a natural recession now will allow the market to purge and correct itself.
It�s nice to see that there some in D. C. who understands that the "cure" is significantly worse than disease and that Congress is selling our financial souls to the Devil by passing this piece of criminal legislation. The markets must be allowed to work this issue out without government intervention.
Housing prices must be allowed to fall for economic health and long-term stability to be realized. If the market can set the price on the way up, it has to be allowed to set it on the way down.
Companies who aren�t leveraged to the hilt and individuals who can demonstrate an ability to repay their loan will be able to secure loans. That�s the way it should be.
This bailout will maintain inflated markets, broken financial systems, encourage reckless behavior, and create an even bigger problem in the very near future. However, a natural recession now will allow the market to purge and correct itself.
Borjas | 3:40 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
I see that Utah still has no clue what government is for. The US markets are
tanking and just when the time is right for government to actually do some good
in this world they throw up the "Don't Tread on Me" banner. Only
the blind one party rule of a political extremist state would not heed the
lessons of history.
The Great Depression was not averted because of the lack of intervention by our government. Japan languished in stagflation for almost a decade because all they did is print money. Sweden actually did something very similar to our current plan and salvaged their markets.
I was glad to move to a more reasonable state that actually has common sense and political balance. It now pains me to see that the idiocy of Utah politics affecting the rest of the country.
The Great Depression was not averted because of the lack of intervention by our government. Japan languished in stagflation for almost a decade because all they did is print money. Sweden actually did something very similar to our current plan and salvaged their markets.
I was glad to move to a more reasonable state that actually has common sense and political balance. It now pains me to see that the idiocy of Utah politics affecting the rest of the country.
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM | 3:38 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Terry...
A crunch will effect us all, but let's face it, we've been living on consumerism and trumped up paper profits for far too long.
Rice and beens 4 a year! No biggie!
A crunch will effect us all, but let's face it, we've been living on consumerism and trumped up paper profits for far too long.
Rice and beens 4 a year! No biggie!
I Don't Trust Congress | 3:39 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Congress got us in this mess and they are trying to make it worse. This bailout
is for protecting the big insiders. If the government is trying to protect the
mortgage holders, buy the mortgages directly from them instead of giving the
money to the money guys who made stupid loans in the first place. This bail out
will only put more money in the pockets of special interests thieves that has
bought congress with their
�donations�.
Cannon, I voted against you in the primary and I look forward to you and your staff being unemployed in 3 months. Cannon the closet Democrat comes out finally he voted with the Democrats to protect the big boys and shaft us. Even Matheson listened to us the taxpayers and voted no.
Cannon, I voted against you in the primary and I look forward to you and your staff being unemployed in 3 months. Cannon the closet Democrat comes out finally he voted with the Democrats to protect the big boys and shaft us. Even Matheson listened to us the taxpayers and voted no.
Thumbs up to Bishop, Jim! | 3:41 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Of the three Reps, the one I have least faith in generally is Cannon, the fact
that he supported President Bush (one of the worst Presidents in the history of
this country) lends me to believe that probably this bailout does not deserve
support. Perhaps Matheson and Bishop may support a bailout that has been
thoroughly researched and debated.
I doubt a problem of this magnitude can be solved in three weeks. It requires more thoughts by the best minds out there in business, labor and the citizenry in general. This plan is happening too fast. The stock market drop, as well as this plan, just proves that we in America are reactive rather than (critically) proactive. We need to calm down and think this through and possibly proceed with a economic plan.
I doubt a problem of this magnitude can be solved in three weeks. It requires more thoughts by the best minds out there in business, labor and the citizenry in general. This plan is happening too fast. The stock market drop, as well as this plan, just proves that we in America are reactive rather than (critically) proactive. We need to calm down and think this through and possibly proceed with a economic plan.
Math skills... | 3:45 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
To the poster from 3:14
700 billion would only net 3-4,000 to each man and woman, not 300-400k. Do the math and start reading e-mail with the critical thinking switch turned on.
700 billion would only net 3-4,000 to each man and woman, not 300-400k. Do the math and start reading e-mail with the critical thinking switch turned on.
DougS | 3:48 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
"Bailout", you lost some zeros. I saw the e-mail too.
$700,000,000,000 divided by 200,000,000 adults in the US equals $3500.
Some Name | 3:48 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Cracks me up when I read about people saying we should divide the money among us
and not have to pay it back. Here is a perfect word scenario. 1. government
buys at risk mortgages. (so called bailout) 2. Government resets interest
rates on those mortgages so stupid people don't default. Fed can do that
since they own the federal reserve (where all banks get their money) and a side
affect 7 million people keep their homes! 3. government resells those
mortgages back to private sector after crisis passes at either break even or
profit. Hey its a dream right?
TO ya'll need to get educated... | 3:52 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
Ya'll, don't assume Utahns are stupid just because YOU have limited
options.
In Utah we've got food storage!
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM
In Utah we've got food storage!
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM
Steve | 3:53 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
we get what we deserve, we hate the fat cats so much that we are willing to let
everyone go done w/them
Non Utahns are so smart | 4:03 p.m. Sept. 29, 2008
I wish I could be like Borjas. He is so smart. He was smarter than everyone in
Utah so he moved to a smarter state. Wouldn't it be great if all the other
'enlightened' people would follow his lead.
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This bill was bad from the beginning. By killing it they force the House Democrats and our big government lov'n President to do something better.
The House GOP floated the idea of lending the money at a nominal 2% interest rate and let the banks settle their own bad debt. Or better yet, we do the bailout but NOT buy the debt, the US Treasury acts as an investor. Any profits goes right to paying off debt.
Best idea, let this settle itself out. Today we watched another bank go under, Wachovia. It did not get a bailout but instead was bought by Citigroup. Wachovia was one of the largest banks in the world, top 5 in the US.
Market forces have settled Lehman Brothers, now Wachovia, and even Wamu. These will work just fine.
The risk of the bailout is the complete failure of the dollar. In either case, people are going to lose illusory money based on home values that were never really there.
I want the Community Reinvestment Act ended.