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LDS Church encourages member involvement in political process
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the truth | 1:46 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Boy did I read that right. that the Church is not republican. Now lets spread
the word that you can vote for a democrat and still go to the celestrial
kingdom.
Maybe now we can throw out all the crupt republicans that have be hiding behind the church and make a real change.
Maybe now we can throw out all the crupt republicans that have be hiding behind the church and make a real change.
Bot | 2:51 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Thomas Jefferson issued his famous letter to the Danbury, Connecticut Baptist
minister in which he said a one-way wall exists between the church and state.
i.e., the state would never tell the church what its doctrine should be. Coming
from Virginia, where the colony of Virginia supported (by taxes) the Church of
England, he was opposed to states favoring any one religion.
Clergy should not leave their views on moral issues of the day at the chapel door. There is nothing wrong with their sharing their views on such issues with their congregation.
Clergy should not leave their views on moral issues of the day at the chapel door. There is nothing wrong with their sharing their views on such issues with their congregation.
Comments continue below
awesomeron | 5:14 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
I had the great honor this last Saturday of going to the Polls with my 19 year
old Son and my 18 year old Daughter and all 3 of us Voted.
It was the Hawaii Primary and although the Vote turn out is Real Low, vital issue are decided. Like who is going to be in he General Election. In Hawaii you have to declare party and just vote that party in the Primary, except on Non Partisan Offices like Mayor. The Mayor did not quite get his 50% plus 1, almost. I am all for him I just want to see the Office Go to the General Election.
We have an off year Gov Election.
AS LDS we have the obligation to both Vote and when possible run for public office. When in Office we need to stay true to our Standards an Core Beliefs.
My Main Goal is to see Obama Defeated. He will win Hawaii even some anti abortion people have sold out. However at the end of a very long day Hawaii mostly does not matter.
I was so Proud to be able to Vote with my Kids!!!
It was the Hawaii Primary and although the Vote turn out is Real Low, vital issue are decided. Like who is going to be in he General Election. In Hawaii you have to declare party and just vote that party in the Primary, except on Non Partisan Offices like Mayor. The Mayor did not quite get his 50% plus 1, almost. I am all for him I just want to see the Office Go to the General Election.
We have an off year Gov Election.
AS LDS we have the obligation to both Vote and when possible run for public office. When in Office we need to stay true to our Standards an Core Beliefs.
My Main Goal is to see Obama Defeated. He will win Hawaii even some anti abortion people have sold out. However at the end of a very long day Hawaii mostly does not matter.
I was so Proud to be able to Vote with my Kids!!!
f.w.day | 6:18 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
if the people are the church that is the way the
church should speak.
church should speak.
Supporter | 6:22 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
I support the Church's statement.
eve | 6:35 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
If only all churches would be so unbiased and encourage as the LDS do, instead
of telling their members who to vote for.
Chantelle in NY | 6:40 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
I am thankful that the church has made such a statement. It is so important for
all of us with good family and religious values LDS or not, to take a stand
against Hollywood and progressive liberal thinking. If we don't the
minority will have the loudest voice. If we don't protect such things as
the constitution on what this nation was built, this country will hang by a
thread and we are all in for a very scary ride. I can't imagine what things
are going to be like if Obama wins. I hope we all have our food storage in
order. I am praying everyday that McCain and Palin will win.
xscribe | 6:54 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
The LDS church is not even close to being unbiased, or neutral, for that matter,
about how it wants its members to vote. The church, through its teachings,
tells its members how to vote. Saying to read the issues, pray about it, and
then decide which party best reflects your stance is not a neutral position when
coming from the church. Sending out a letter to Calfifornia to be read to
members saying, Do whatever you can to protect "traditional marriage"
is not neutrality. It is telling people how to vote. Unfortunatly, people then
do not get to think for themselves. I've even heard this from my own
Mormon family member: You've just got to have faith that what our leaders,
meaning church leaders, are telling us is the right thing to do. No thanks.
I'd rather think for myself!
Self Regulate your Speaking out | 6:52 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
A right abused is a right lost ... eventually.
Keeping this in mind, No church including the LDS church should seek to impose its specific rules on everyone including its members by force of law.
Somewhere around the early 1970's or late 1960's the LDS church encouraged and got a law passed in Utah that banned for a while, shopping on Sunday.
This law had no community benefit, it was merely trying to enforce LDS rules on all by force of law.
Keeping this in mind, No church including the LDS church should seek to impose its specific rules on everyone including its members by force of law.
Somewhere around the early 1970's or late 1960's the LDS church encouraged and got a law passed in Utah that banned for a while, shopping on Sunday.
This law had no community benefit, it was merely trying to enforce LDS rules on all by force of law.
"Various parties" not two-party | 6:57 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
By its statement, the LDS Church has affirmed its preference for a democracy
more-inclusive than a two-party system.
Note the use of the phrase "various parties."
Please don't inject personal bias in favor of a two-party system on to clear statements by the LDS Church to the contrary.
Most of the world's democracies have a proportional, multi-party system.
Note the use of the phrase "various parties."
Please don't inject personal bias in favor of a two-party system on to clear statements by the LDS Church to the contrary.
Most of the world's democracies have a proportional, multi-party system.
uncannygunman | 7:10 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Rights are for citizens. Churches are entities, not citizens. I will support a
church's "right" to free expression when it pays taxes like
everybody else.
to f.w.day... | 7:30 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
except the people are not the church. The Church is the Lord's, and the
people are trying hard to be like him. The church speaks for the Lord and the
people, each of whom has chosen to be involved, follow. It's a wonderful
concept.
liberal Larry | 7:34 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
The pattern of Mormons to vote as a block was one of the things that scared many
people about Mitt Romney. Whereas Catholics have the good sense to ignore much
of what their leaders direct, the LDS seem to be monolithic in their voting
patterns, and it gives the appearance that their leaders have too much power.
It is the right of LDS leaders to try to direct their members to vote a certain
way, but it doesn't play well with national voters. It be something that
will shackle Mormon presidential candidates for a long time, unless the
candidate is a democrat.
Uthanian | 7:40 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Elderly LDS will vote for McCaine but the younger ones will vote for Obama and I
beleive Obama will win
Yockel | 7:49 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
I hope that people will be able to look at the Bush record and take
responsibility for their poor judgment in 2000 and 2004.
If we keep voting for the same people then we need not be surprised about having less money to provide for our families, collapsing bridges, lower declines in abortion, and frivolous quagmire wars.
If you want to be better off, vote for somebody different.
If we keep voting for the same people then we need not be surprised about having less money to provide for our families, collapsing bridges, lower declines in abortion, and frivolous quagmire wars.
If you want to be better off, vote for somebody different.
Anonymous | 7:50 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
I'm writing in Ron Paul. All those others mean nothing to me... and
don't tell me I'm throwing my vote away. Voting for either Obmanation
or McBush is throwing my vote away.
As a Mormon independent | 7:52 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
I'll vote for who I want. The church doesn't tell me who to vote for.
Never has and never will. I know very faithful church members both Democrat
and Republican. Once and for all the church does not tell anyone who to vote
for. Study the issues and vote your conscience. That is all the church has ever
said. Just for the recored I am leaning to Obama.
to xscribe | 7:54 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Encouraging LDS members to support traditional marriage, even in vote form, does
not support a political party. There is no encouragement to vote/support a
specific party. If they were encouraged to support an amendment to protect
"in God we Trust" on currency, would you feel so strongly? It's
just not as "hot button" an issue as this one.
And liberal Larry, I don't think accusing Catholics of having good sense in ignoring their leaders is much of a compliment to them. Mormons don't vote as a block (that would require formal organization to support the "block"), but are more unified in purpose than many.
I think Uthanian has a point. This election could be the first in a long time that Utah goes to a Democrat.
And liberal Larry, I don't think accusing Catholics of having good sense in ignoring their leaders is much of a compliment to them. Mormons don't vote as a block (that would require formal organization to support the "block"), but are more unified in purpose than many.
I think Uthanian has a point. This election could be the first in a long time that Utah goes to a Democrat.
Reenie | 7:58 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
My husband and I are 70 years old. We have 4 married children, aged 37 to 48.
None of us are going to vote for Obama. How you vote being determined by age,
is not a given. None of us live in Utah, all are active in the LDS church, not
all born in Utah. We all hope that Mr. McCain is our next president. At least
you know what you are getting with him.
Kahuna | 7:58 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
When has the LDS church openly say to it's people, vote republican?
Seriously folks, do you have to BE COMMANDED in all things? Get out and vote for
whom YOU believe will BEST serve this Republic.
Idiots posting comments, gads.
Idiots posting comments, gads.
OC guy | 7:58 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Liberal Larry has a point. I have read numerous articles that describe "the
Catholic vote" as a swing vote that closely mirrors the national popular
vote for President. Gore narrowly won a plurality among Catholics, though he
lost in the Electoral College. Bush won a majority of Catholics' votes in
2004, by a narrow margin of a few points, in line with his national win.
According to exit polls in Nevada, Utah, and Arizona, Romney received 90-95% of the primary or caucus votes of Republicans who identified themselves as being LDS in the surveys.
Other groups like Knights of Columbus and Focus on the Family are giving large amounts of money to pass Proposition 8 (ban on same sex marriage) in California. The LDS Church has pressured its members to donate. A Wall St Journal article this weekend documented that wealthy LDS donors received conference calls from L. Whitney Clayton (General Authority and member of Presiding Bishopric) who suggested that "$25,000" would be an appropriate amount to "donate".
By asking the members to donate themselves, the church saves money but also saves itself from bad publicity because there are no identifiable donations from church headquarters.
According to exit polls in Nevada, Utah, and Arizona, Romney received 90-95% of the primary or caucus votes of Republicans who identified themselves as being LDS in the surveys.
Other groups like Knights of Columbus and Focus on the Family are giving large amounts of money to pass Proposition 8 (ban on same sex marriage) in California. The LDS Church has pressured its members to donate. A Wall St Journal article this weekend documented that wealthy LDS donors received conference calls from L. Whitney Clayton (General Authority and member of Presiding Bishopric) who suggested that "$25,000" would be an appropriate amount to "donate".
By asking the members to donate themselves, the church saves money but also saves itself from bad publicity because there are no identifiable donations from church headquarters.
Anonymous | 8:06 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Last I checked Utahns were still donating their fortunes and freetime to
limiting freedom in California. I'll let you guess what organization was
spearheading such behavior. No representation without taxation.
Take note... | 8:16 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Take note...the republican party is not your only church sanctined option.
"There are elements worthy of our support in both parties" (or it went
something like that...). And they are right. Remember the poor, the
downtrodden, the sick and the afflicted. Study who may best help the helpless.
There but for the grace of God go we...
To Lib Larry, OC Guy | 8:15 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
So, your complaint is not that LDS Church leaders speak out on issues, merely
that LDS members believe them.
Hmmmmm.
Hmmmmm.
Correction | 8:17 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
OC Guy, I have been keeping close watch on the articles from Wall Street and
they never printed what you claimed. There have been no conference calls from a
General Authority and they have never given an amount that is appropriate to
donate.
Two Party System | 8:23 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
GOP-haters take note. Yes, a two-party system is preferable. At the local
level, the differences between them are usually minor or non-existent. However,
the National Democratic Party, which has strayed far from family values on
social issues since the late 1960's... show no signs of moderating their
extremely liberal platforms which directly contradict LDS values and beliefs.
They proudly proclaim support for abortion, gay marriages, gay rights, activist
government that supplants parental roles, etc. So, don't get on this forum
and WHINE that Utahs don't buy into the Democratic rhetoric --- no matter
how eloquent Mr. Obama is. Until the Democrats moderate their views and accept
more conservative viewpoints at the national level, Utahns and majority of LDS
(Harry Reid Notwithstanding) will continue to reject them.
To: Take note... | 8:28 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
"There but for the grace of God go we" is a phrase often cited, but
little understood. To believe such is to put all accountability onto God, which
the LDS do not ascribe to. We have our agency, we have our choices and WE are
accountable to Him for them. Don't try to blame God for the course of your
or anyone else's life. We should remember the poor, to teach them to fish
instead of giving them one, to serve them in ways to build them up, not enslave
them to the dole.
Definitions please? | 8:33 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Can I please get a definition for the following terms: "crupt",
"Uthanian," "McCaine," and "sanctined,"?
With these words defined, I may be able to understand your posts a little better.
With these words defined, I may be able to understand your posts a little better.
1st Time Commentor | 8:46 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Chantelle in NY's comment frightens me if such is a reflection of the
prevailing sentiment among voters. While I whole-heartedly agree that the
Constitution must be protected, there is not a President in recent history that
has taken more aggressive action to circumvent the Constitution than Bush! Who
is their right mind could vote for his party again?!?! NO candidate has
benefited more from the existence of the Constitution than Obama. If not for the
13th, 14th and 15th Amendments, Obama would not be free to campaign for public
office, vote, even freely exist! If voters believe that McCain and the
republican party are better suited, or even motivated, to protect the
Constitution than any other candidate, than such citizens deserve to suffer the
consequences of voting men like Bush into office who take action to curtail
their individual constitutional liberties, allow their close associates to reap
enormous windfall profits from severe crises (which the taxpayers will
inevitably fund) . . . the list of grievances is endless. Come on people, even
Taco Bell can think outside the box!
JanSan | 8:49 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
I think that it is interesting and telling that not long ago there was an
article published that told of a wealthy man in UTAH donating one million
dollars to the cause to defeat Prop 8 and many of the anti Mormons were on here
praising him and Brad Pitt for their generous donations and now they are bad
mouthing Mormons who donate for the cause the way they think and fill. You
can't have it both ways! If it is alright for this man and Brad Pitt to
donate the way they want then it is alright for some Mormon's to donate the
way they wish... This truly shows some as hyprcrites.
QUESTION | 8:59 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
I would love to hear other's ideas on this, as I am really confused right
now. Regardless of what the Church says, it is common sense to vote for someone
with your same values. Liberals are too much for me, yet am not thrilled with
McCain either. How in the world can I trust this man, when his first wife
couldn't? I don't put much stock into womanizers and adulterers...
especially ones that flaunt it. I know that was several years ago, but if you
are willing to hurt your wife so deeply, the one that is supposed to trust you
more than anyone in this world, what is he going to do with America's
trust? And on the other side, I think Palin is great. But is a vote for her a
vote against her family? Am this be taking away their mother? Reading other
comments on here tells me this is the appropriate place to ask... intelligent,
thought-provoking people that have interesting views. Can someone help me with
this problem? Thanks in advance.
Nevada Blue | 9:10 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Hel. 6: 38 And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build
them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they
had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of
the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of
their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.
The majority of Mormons have been seduced and are Socialists or Fascists just like the Nephites of old. LDS are to eschew Socialism and Fascism but instead they embrace it. Most members now choose between King-men and Gadiantons and believe they are being righteous. They are not. They are supporting Satan's counterfeit plan.
The Church does not support the two party system. Joseph Smith said that the Republican and Democrat parties would go to war and that the Independent American Party would be formed while the US was in many foreign wars. In Nevada the Independent American Party is the 3rd largest with over 50,000 members. Ezra Taft Benson was almost our VP candidate years ago.
Republicans= Fascist King-men
Democrats= Gadianton Socialists
Repent!
The majority of Mormons have been seduced and are Socialists or Fascists just like the Nephites of old. LDS are to eschew Socialism and Fascism but instead they embrace it. Most members now choose between King-men and Gadiantons and believe they are being righteous. They are not. They are supporting Satan's counterfeit plan.
The Church does not support the two party system. Joseph Smith said that the Republican and Democrat parties would go to war and that the Independent American Party would be formed while the US was in many foreign wars. In Nevada the Independent American Party is the 3rd largest with over 50,000 members. Ezra Taft Benson was almost our VP candidate years ago.
Republicans= Fascist King-men
Democrats= Gadianton Socialists
Repent!
xscribe | 9:11 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Off topic, but just to add to "Definitions Please," it's, with an
apostrophe, means "it is." Its, without an apostrophe, is the
possessive form. Just for what it's worth.
Illegal Immigration | 9:12 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
When is the church going to come out and tell Jason Chaffetz that his
immigration plan is wrong. Will the LDS allow a Congressman who wants to put
women and children into tent cities, to represent them?
I for one will not stand for it. Let the church speak, but pray they say the right things.
I for one will not stand for it. Let the church speak, but pray they say the right things.
Cats | 9:13 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Unfortunately, the National Democrat Party has made it almost impossible for
most LDS to vote Democrat. They have gone so far away from LDS values, that
I'm amazed the way some LDS Democrats manage to rationalize their
choice.
However, the Church needs people in both parties so that whatever party is in power, we have some voice. That's why I appreciate Harry Reid, even though I don't agree with him. Since we have received a great amount of persecution throughout history, we need to be aware of this.
However, if you read what the Church said, it states that Gospel principles can be found in various parties. THAT IS VERY CAREFULLY WORDED! It doesn't say that all parties substantially represent gospel principles, only that some principles can be found in all parties. This is a CAREFULLY WORDED ACCURATE statement. To those with enough insight to see it, it is very clear that some parties represent gospel principles, OVERALL, much more closely than others.
The Democrats have gotten so far left that many LDS ,who might overwise be Democrats, have found it impossible to vote Democrat.
Abortion, gay "marriage," socialism and weak national security, unfortunately, don't play well with LDS voters.
However, the Church needs people in both parties so that whatever party is in power, we have some voice. That's why I appreciate Harry Reid, even though I don't agree with him. Since we have received a great amount of persecution throughout history, we need to be aware of this.
However, if you read what the Church said, it states that Gospel principles can be found in various parties. THAT IS VERY CAREFULLY WORDED! It doesn't say that all parties substantially represent gospel principles, only that some principles can be found in all parties. This is a CAREFULLY WORDED ACCURATE statement. To those with enough insight to see it, it is very clear that some parties represent gospel principles, OVERALL, much more closely than others.
The Democrats have gotten so far left that many LDS ,who might overwise be Democrats, have found it impossible to vote Democrat.
Abortion, gay "marriage," socialism and weak national security, unfortunately, don't play well with LDS voters.
To f.w.Day | 9:16 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
The People are not the church. The Church is made up of People who follow
Christ. Jesus Christ is the Head and the people follow.
The Deuce | 9:20 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Any religious faith has the right to voice their opinion on what they perceive
as moral issues facing the country. This is simply taking a stand on their
values. It is up to their congregations to study the issues and make an informed
vote. The success of any country is a direct reflection on the moral fiber of
the people and how they vote. All of our laws currently on the books have their
basis in a moral code of conduct. In my opinion those of the LDS faith are more
unified in purpose than many of the religions we see out there and this may
reflect their voting patterns. I am not of the LDS faith but those I know who
are take their religion more seriously than most other faiths and study their
doctrine. These people also pay taxes and have the right to express their
opinion as do all other citizens of the US. I still am amazed at so many posting
here that seem to have a fight against this faith with little or no real issue
other than they do not seem to be able to live the doctrine.
Ignorance is Bliss | 9:18 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
To Jan San:
There is a big difference you seem to be unaware of (or choose to ignore). Brad Pitt and Bruce Bastian pay taxes. The LDS Church is tax exempt and does not. All three have the right to express their opinions. However, of the three, only Brad Pitt and Bruce Bastion have the right to get actively involved in the political process.
There is a big difference you seem to be unaware of (or choose to ignore). Brad Pitt and Bruce Bastian pay taxes. The LDS Church is tax exempt and does not. All three have the right to express their opinions. However, of the three, only Brad Pitt and Bruce Bastion have the right to get actively involved in the political process.
TO Question 8:59- | 9:23 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
McCain by his own admission was a great womanizer when he arrived back in the US
from the conflict in Vietnam. He abandoned his first wife. I don't think
he is to proud of that fact but what happened happened. Also it happened many,
many years ago and his first wife has been quoted as saying she holds no ill
will towards him. Obama is a family man and has two daughters and is married to
the same woman and has never strayed. Palin has five children and has chosen to
be a public servant along with raising her family. It must be difficult but she
seems to manage it well. My only caution would be is that you are voting for
the President of the United States. The vice-presidency is important but the
Presidency is what is really important. I wouldn't vote for the President
based on who is running for vice-President. JMHO.
Anti-PC Infidel | 9:30 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
D&C 98:10
"Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil."
Honest, good, and wise men.
That pretty much completely disqualifies both of the presidential candidates (and almost all of the candidates for everything else as well).
And remember, too, that the commandment reaffirms the truth that the lesser of two evils is still evil.
"Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil."
Honest, good, and wise men.
That pretty much completely disqualifies both of the presidential candidates (and almost all of the candidates for everything else as well).
And remember, too, that the commandment reaffirms the truth that the lesser of two evils is still evil.
MormonDemocrat | 9:43 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Dick Cheney, George Bush, and Sarah Palin have consistently shown by their
actions that they do not �support and uphold the
Constitution of the United States�. Instead they have
shown that they support secrecy in government, that the-end-justifies-the-means,
and that disloyalty will not be tolerated. Barack Obama has shown that he is
intelligent, has the ability to bring people together to solve problems, and has
earned respect both here and abroad. That is the kind of leader we need today.
I pray for his health, safety and success.
Jud | 9:49 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
As an LDS person I appreciate the leadership of the Church expressing once again
that I need to make up my own mind. I'm leaning to Obama because the
Republican administration has in my opinion made the last 8 years into sheer
horror--massive deficits, absurd wars, economic meltdown, erosion of civil
rights, and none of our national problems resolved, e.g. health care costs. They
are apparently incapable of governing. Sorry, fellow LDS who are
Republicans--I'm not with you on this.
Ben Huyck | 9:54 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
@Correction
Please read or re-read the Wall Street Journal article entitled "Mormons Boost Antigay Marriage Effort" written by Mark Schoofs on September 20, 2008. I believe OC Guy was referring specifically to this paragraph:
"Later, [Mr. Bolingbroke] was invited to participate in a conference call led by a high church official, known as a member of the Quorum of Seventy. Mr. Bolingbroke, a former president and chief operating officer of The Clorox Co., estimates that 40 to 60 Mormon potential donors were on that call, and he said it was suggested that they donate $25,000, which Mr. Bolingbroke did earlier this month."
The certainty with which you assert that this meeting never happened calls into question either 1) your integrity, or b) your ability to read.
I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and I will assume that you did not read the article thoroghly.
Please read or re-read the Wall Street Journal article entitled "Mormons Boost Antigay Marriage Effort" written by Mark Schoofs on September 20, 2008. I believe OC Guy was referring specifically to this paragraph:
"Later, [Mr. Bolingbroke] was invited to participate in a conference call led by a high church official, known as a member of the Quorum of Seventy. Mr. Bolingbroke, a former president and chief operating officer of The Clorox Co., estimates that 40 to 60 Mormon potential donors were on that call, and he said it was suggested that they donate $25,000, which Mr. Bolingbroke did earlier this month."
The certainty with which you assert that this meeting never happened calls into question either 1) your integrity, or b) your ability to read.
I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and I will assume that you did not read the article thoroghly.
Utah County Resident | 9:55 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
I am for the proposition that anyone who does not own property/pays taxes has no
vote for anything. What is all this freeloader business and proposals by
certain candidates that "I" will give you such and such. This makes
me wonder where their brains are. Giveaways by the government are
anti-American. My proposal is to define what is taxable income (do not exempt
any untaxable pretax income), and then the total tax bill is 5% federal and 5%
state and local tax (no exemptions); and then the government lives with it. No
deficits (illegal) at any level of government; and limited bonding. What is
this notion that everyone is "entitled" to the American dream of
owning a home, etc. That is simply an idiotic piece of garbage. "YOU EARN
IT" Those subhuman people who are running Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac are
candidates for for jail. Golden parachutes should be outlawed.
Ronnie Bray | 9:55 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Asd a convert to the Cghurch of almost 60 years, my political philosophy has
never been questioned except in the USA.
I am a [British] socialist because it is my belief that taking care of needy people, including the outcasts, the frail, the elderly the sick, the chronically sick, the disabled, and the vulnerable is what the scriptures teach us as God's children to be aware of, search out, and fill the needs of all souls who stand in need of assistance.
Whilst the Church per se no longer gets involved in politics it has long encouraged members to be involved, and, thereby introduce gospel principles into evefryday life, and engage such principles of honesty, integrity, and the well-being of all into the local and national political machinetry.
That which Jesus Christ told his followers uin the past, "Ye are the light of the world," so he calls upon his disciples today to be involved in worldly affairs that His Light will permeate human society, and thereby raise and exalt all people everywhere, at the worst in a temporal sense, and at the best in a spiritual sense.
RB
I am a [British] socialist because it is my belief that taking care of needy people, including the outcasts, the frail, the elderly the sick, the chronically sick, the disabled, and the vulnerable is what the scriptures teach us as God's children to be aware of, search out, and fill the needs of all souls who stand in need of assistance.
Whilst the Church per se no longer gets involved in politics it has long encouraged members to be involved, and, thereby introduce gospel principles into evefryday life, and engage such principles of honesty, integrity, and the well-being of all into the local and national political machinetry.
That which Jesus Christ told his followers uin the past, "Ye are the light of the world," so he calls upon his disciples today to be involved in worldly affairs that His Light will permeate human society, and thereby raise and exalt all people everywhere, at the worst in a temporal sense, and at the best in a spiritual sense.
RB
re:Ignorance Is Bliss | 10:01 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Obviously you are wrong as the reality indicates. You may wish the situation
and rules to be different but they are not.
Dogs | 10:06 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
Unfortunately, the National Republican Party has made it almost impossible for
most LDS to vote Republican. They have gone so far away from LDS values, that
I'm amazed the way some LDS Republicans manage to rationalize their
choice.
If you read what the Church said, it states that Gospel principles can be found in various parties. THAT IS VERY CAREFULLY WORDED! It doesn't say that all parties substantially represent gospel principles, only that some principles can be found in all parties. This is a CAREFULLY WORDED ACCURATE statement. To those with enough insight to see it, it is very clear that some parties represent gospel principles, OVERALL, much more closely than others.
The Republicans have gotten so far right that many LDS ,who might overwise be Republicans, have found it impossible to vote Republican.
Reckless spending, immoral wars, corrupt capitalism and weakening national security, unfortunately, shouldn't play well with LDS voters.
If you read what the Church said, it states that Gospel principles can be found in various parties. THAT IS VERY CAREFULLY WORDED! It doesn't say that all parties substantially represent gospel principles, only that some principles can be found in all parties. This is a CAREFULLY WORDED ACCURATE statement. To those with enough insight to see it, it is very clear that some parties represent gospel principles, OVERALL, much more closely than others.
The Republicans have gotten so far right that many LDS ,who might overwise be Republicans, have found it impossible to vote Republican.
Reckless spending, immoral wars, corrupt capitalism and weakening national security, unfortunately, shouldn't play well with LDS voters.
Free Thinker | 10:10 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
I am a voter who is not listed with either party. I'm grateful for the
latitude of free conscience the LDS fosters among its people.
Unfortunately, Deseret News did not notice the Church's position that they quoted in this article, when DN said the Church encourages a two-party system.
The Church stated, "Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties" The word "various" means more than two.
As voters of good conscience, we should take time to look seriously at all who are running for office, not just the major two parties. (Perhaps Alan Keyes, or Ralph Nader might be more to your liking.)
We don't have to vote for the winning person to please God with our vote.
Unfortunately, Deseret News did not notice the Church's position that they quoted in this article, when DN said the Church encourages a two-party system.
The Church stated, "Principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties" The word "various" means more than two.
As voters of good conscience, we should take time to look seriously at all who are running for office, not just the major two parties. (Perhaps Alan Keyes, or Ralph Nader might be more to your liking.)
We don't have to vote for the winning person to please God with our vote.
SingingBirthdayCard dot com | 10:19 a.m. Sept. 22, 2008
I'm glad that the L.D.S. church remains neutral politically, but I do
believe that all Americans, Mormon or not, are responsible to influence
government to uphold their core beliefs.
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Now if we could just get politicians to pay as much attention to the crucial wording, "preserving . . . health and safety" as to the important "freedom of choice" language.
Both are important.
As much as a freedom to drink, the people of Utah deserve the freedom to seek meaningful redress of misuse of that freedom by drunk drivers and their proponents and enablers.
Utah's current dram shop law effectively immunizes much of the "hospitality" industry, insulating from responsibility most brewers, distillers, and distributors. This permits them to freely siphon billions from the economy, while placing the burden for highway carnage they cause, encourage, and enable largely on the backs of widows and orphans.
Reform of Utah's alcohol laws must be fair and comprehensive. We'll be watching to see if politicians are looking out for us, or just for their campaign contributors in the "hospitality" industry.