Deseret News | MormonTimes.com: Rating books for offensive material

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MormonTimes.com: Rating books for offensive material

CB | 7:29 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

What a great help for parents and others who prefer wholesome reading materials. Yes, I am able to make my own decisions and I have decided to fill my mind with uplifting information and to avoid vulgar and base reading material - but sometimes you don't know what you are getting until you have already invested in a well promoted book that doesn't meet expected standards. Just like I like to know what to expect when I go to a movie, I am excited that this service is now available, so we can make good, informed decisions on the books we read.

Anonymous | 7:54 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

This article makes me sad. Its a sad commentary, and more of the continuing wave of anti-intellectualism across the country.

Someone who will read books ahead of time and tell you if you should read them or not based on their smut value.

Why go to the trouble of developing and sharing your own values and preferences? Just go ahead and borrow someone else's!

When did we turn into such a lazy, intellectually weak society?

Don't answer that, I think I know.

LR | 7:56 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

What a great idea and service to others. After reading the article I went directly to ratedreads.com and got a feel for its purpose. I have added this to my "favorites" as a reference and as a guide to future reading. Keep it up. I'm anxious to see many additional books rated.

Comments continue below

I always wondered... | 8:28 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

I always wondered who got the job to watch movies, and now read books, to determine what the rating was. Now I know, it is some woman deciding what to put on the WARNING label. You know, I think we are all grown up enough to figure things out for ourselves. Just my opinion.

Oh brother | 8:30 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

I am sure the Scarlet Letter rates as highly offensive. Funny thing is that I know a woman who would not "allow" her daughter to read Harry Potter. She even protested, and the teacher submitted to the reading of it in a public school. I know that the daughter merely snuck the book. Isn't that a great lesson? Be so neurotic about something fairly benign so that you teach your children to sneak behind your back.

Good try-- | 8:37 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

I would hope she just does it like I do. Start the book and if it is good keep going. If it becomes quite offensive in one way or another, just stop and rate it. No need to get into the garbage. I guess since she has different levels she rates at, that she must keep going. Too bad for her but a great deal for us. There has to be a better way...but, I can't think of one.
I've noticed if I get Christian publishers USUALLY I can trust them. (Not always.)

Rating isn't censoring | 8:55 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Wow, there is a lot of negativism out here for someone who is sharing what she has found out about books she has read.

Not everyone has time to read all of the books that are being published. If she does and decides to give her opinion on it, good for her. So, if I don't want to waste my time reading trashy books, and I have a way to find out if it is immoral, why should anyone else care if I look to see what she thought of it?

I guess by the (lack of) logic being demonstrated here, we shouldn't bother to rate anything anymore. Lets not rate movies or video games for sex or violence. That mpaa rating is nothing more than censorship isnï¿½t it?

On second thought, with the moral values of this world deteriorating and with explicit sex and other filth showing up everywhere, lets keep the ratings. Rating something isn't the same as censoring it.

It seems like many people are assuming that she reads the book even if it is pornographic. That doesn't seem to be the case. She tries "to select works that she suspects will meet her standards"

Call me old fashion.... | 9:12 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Once upon a time we relied on a notion espoused by a wise man who said, "teach a people correct principles and they will govern themselves."

Who needs "services" like this when you have correct principles?

For What Its Worth | 9:21 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

I think the ratings of reading and seeing media are often off the mark. I think to label something adult reading or viewing if foolish thinking. If it is not appropriate for a child it is not appropriate for an adult. If it becomes offensive to my values, it goes into the fire or garbage or I leave the theater. I will censure my own intake. But thanks for the warning of your reading and viewing effort it may save me some time. I however would not want the job of censuring something. I wonder however if the intellectual excuse so often used isn't in its own way a lazy answer that can lead to insensitivity and appathy concerning what improves our relationships with each other.

To Anonymous | 9:34 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Your comment makes me sad.

Why is it anti-intellectual to hold an author's feet to the fire? I have to craft my work so as to competently and completely tell a good story without appealing to the reader's basest instincts. That's all I require of other authors, as the price of my patronage.

What seems to me to be anti-intellectual is the elitist, literature groupie notion that a book's author is engaged in something other than a business, and is therefore somehow "above" having to write something people will buy. A corollary is that it's my job to sift through all the chaff to get to whatever important insight the author has for me.

Bushwa! What am I paying the author for?

If an author feels he has a right to require me to wade through manure to get to whatever pearl of wisdom he has for me -- I can do without him and his pearl.

And he can do without my patronage.

Thanks, Ms. Lim. Keep up the good work.

Just so you know | 9:37 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

The county library has a "Gentle Reads" booklist of books that fit this criterion.

Ultimately what we decide to read and what we decide not to read is a matter of personal preference. I enjoy living in a country where we have the right to choose that, and I hope that right is never taken away. When a people lose their right to choose their reading material, their society is in danger of losing other freedoms.

JanSan | 9:42 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

To: Call me old fashion - the wise man you speak of was a Prophet of God! The Lord said to use wisdom in all things - To me it would seem wisdom and a sence of Intelligence to look at services around us that can better our own lives. To be intelligent I don't have to sit and read or watch smut and things that turn my stomach or give me nightmares when I try to sleep. Just because she gives her oponion on something does not force me to either read or not read something - I can use my intelligence with the help she has given and decide for myself if this is something I would enjoy. I see nothing wrong with this and am grateful for her imput.

Sarah | 9:59 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

I for one think this is wonderful. I do data entry for a living at the moment, and so I'm blessed with the opportunity to listen to my ipod for 40 hours a week. I listen to audiobooks regularly, and there's a LOT of filth out there. Even books that glowing reviews have things in them that I don't want to listen to, especially when I'm trying to work. There is no mention of those scenes in the reviews or in the synopsis on the back, and you don't usually don't know they're there until you stumble across them. There are literally hundreds of thousands of books out there that, at first glance, seem benign, but aren't once you get into them. That's not something that I care to litter my mind with, and I like that somebody is trying to do something to help others.

And just a note, just because you have the correct principles doesn't mean you can automatically know exactly what the content of an unread book is.

dbf | 10:04 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Interesting how people feel free to give their opinions about how someone else shouldn't be giving their opinion. Remember just because someone gives an opinion doesn't make it a fact and doesn't effect my ability to form my own opinion. There is still freedom of speech (and opinions) in our country.

Thanks | 10:30 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Thank you for making a service like this available for parents who often have no idea of what their children are reading. This is very helpful. It's just like going to a movie. You often times do not know what is going to come up and when you realize it, it is too late because you've seen it all. It is hard to leave something that you are really into.

David | 11:15 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

For all of those that think her "service" admirable, look at the bible loaded with murder, incest (resulting in multiple pregnancies), attempted murder of one's own child, adultery, war and much more. Please rate that Book with the same measure as any other book and please be honest. Until then, I will consider it hypocrisy.

Re: David | 11:40 a.m. Sept. 15, 2008

The Bible does not enter into graphic depictions of any of those instances. It mentions them, usually as a warning, and then moves on. We don't read the vivid descriptions of exactly what one person is doing to another person, in such minute detail that it is impossible not to picture every second of it in your mind. There is a vast difference between mentioning the word "murder" or "adultery" and having the graphic description of the act laid out before you.

John K | 12:06 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

It would appear that Fahrenheit 451 is closer than we think. In actuality, there has never been a book that didn't offend at least one group or person.

Fear | 12:18 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Censorship is about fear. If we had a strong society, we wouldn't fear books. If we had a strong religion, we wouldn't fear people reading. If we had a strong political philosophy, we wouldn't fear research.

Utah has a ways to go before we can live without fear.

Anonymous | 12:34 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

I'm afraid many great works of literature will not stand up to the 'uplifting and wholesome' standard.

To David, JohnK, Fear | 12:52 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

You would censor Ms. Lim in the name of anti-censorship, and provide less information in the name of free flow of ideas.

No one suggests you are bound to read her reviews, act on them, or recommend them to your friends. But for you to attempt to bully, shame, or use sophistry to dissuade others from doing so is exactly the kind of book-burning mentality you claim to hate.

A you afraid people will have more information than you want them to have?

To Fear | 12:55 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

To Fear, I concur. This concept goes much deeper and broader than just the idea of rating books....

No further comment.

Mom2-4 | 1:03 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

to: for what its worth @ 1:21

"If it is not appropriate for a child it is not appropriate for an adult."

Really? That is so sad. You are depriving yourself of a wonderful world of great literature, art and history. And you will pass this on to your children...How very sad.

RE:Re:David | 1:06 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

There is plenty of unwholesome material in the scriptures that isn't just merely mentioned without description. Enough is described to conjure up images for anyone that has any brain for imagination. I don't know if I would want my children to read about a prophet being commanded to murder someone, or to read about a war in which someone is described as scalping someone else and displaying the scalp on the point of his sword.

personally | 1:32 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Personally, I will decide what is appropriate for me and my family. I do not like censors or raters. I can read, and think for myself.

If you want something disgusting, think about the 4,000 plus American dead and the 100,000 innocent dead because Bush lied to us. Now that is scandalous and obscene. Not books, real life!!

Chris Plummer | 1:33 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

A rating system for books is a good idea, it looked like the website that was linked in the article only had less than 30 books rated. So she has a lot of work ahead of her.
I would hate to see people not read some classics due to her rating system. That would be sad, there are a lot of good books that might be off her chart that one could learn a lot from.

Henry Drummond | 1:41 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Just don't get the same clowns who rate movies to do it. Those movies ratings are worthless. I think listing thematic elements is the most appropriate approach to this.

Only a review of content | 1:43 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

This is not censorship. This is no different from any other review given on any piece of art.

Saying "This book is moderate / off the chart in immorality. If you don't like that, you won't enjoy this book" is no different than a reviewer for a news paper saying "don't go watch this movie because the acting / plot / whatever is horrible" This provides information.

She isn't telling the publishers that they shouldn't print any books, and reading through her reviews I didn't see where she told anyone not to read a book. So in that sense she is less censoring that many reviewers.

FaithNoMo | 2:00 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

I can't believe in this day and age I am reading this. This is ridiculous.

Sarah Palin | 2:17 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Was she working with Sarah Palin in banning books???

Right side of the mouth of a conservative: We want to get government out of the lives of citizens.

Left side of the mouth of a conservative: We need to censor the books out citizens are allowed to read.

Chris D | 2:40 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

What's wrong with just reading that little summary on the back or the inside flap?

I know when I'm getting a risque book. That's why I got it!

I agree with the comments that lament the intellectual laziness of our society. But I guess if you'll pay someone to care for your children and teach them values while you go off and get rich, then why not pay someone to teach you values too?

Sad.

Chris D

To FaithNoMo | 3:11 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

I'm with you, brother.

It's ridiculous that anyone should try to censor this poor lady -- Ms. Lim -- just trying to share her insights with the world.

Are the Libs trying to do to the First Amendment what they tried to do to the Second?

Teri88 | 3:22 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

The problem with censorship is that everyone has different ideas of what is appropriate or not. I do not want someone else telling me that something is not appropriate. What happens when something offends this woman and doesn't offend me? If I rely solely on her rating I could miss an opportunity to read a great book. Just look at the movies. I find myself shocked at some of the things that happen in a "PG13" movie. Yet, I've seen "R" rated movies that were not as vile. I am against rating systems, on music, video games or anything else. It's my responsibility to decide what is right for me.

Ing | 5:56 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

I guess I have to add my voice to those that have already said (and shouldn't have to say) that what Cathy Lim is doing has NOTHING TO DO WITH CENSORSHIP.

I probably wouldn't ever consult her ratings for myself. I don't share her ideas of what's too immoral to read, and I'd rather make my reading decisions without that kind of intermediary anyway.

On the other hand, I might consult that list to help ensure that my kids get books with age-appropriate content. I can't read everything myself first, so it makes good sense to gather information where I can (though not as a substitute for my own judgment, of course).

There's no law or intellectual standard or reasonable ideal that says like-minded people can't collaborate with one another on deciding for themselves what to read. We seek the advice of others all the time on matters of judgment like this. If it becomes a sort of Christian Coalition thing, where the rating list becomes a crusade to squelch books and ideas they don't agree with, then I'd have a huge issue with it. But it doesn't seem that's the case.

More power to her, I say.

David | 6:27 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Reread my post and you will see I NEVER suggest she be censored but that she not act as a hypocrite in her choice of books. As I stated: Let her begin with an honest review of the bible. Are you really so afraid of the "explicit" warning that such a book might be labeled...and appropriately so. Does reading the attempted sacrifice of Issac (unquestionable child abuse) to your children give you the warm fuzzies? It made me sick to my stomach and not one of my three children knows this story. Funny thing is that if I stated other horrific examples found within that book, I would likely not be posted for being offensive.

kathyn | 7:15 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Good grief! This lady is offering a service, people. She's not censoring anything. She's not saying who can read what. She's simply offering a service that a lot of people will find useful.

More than once I've tossed a book that was just too offensive and it wasn't worth wading through a bunch of garbage. I, for one appreciate what Cathy Lim is doing. Nobody is forcing anyone to go to her site, so please calm down. (And to equate scripture stories with the smut that is out there today is so outrageous!) The scriptures tell things that happened in a way to make a point or to warn us. So much of today's books(great literature they aren't) appeal to the most base of instincts.

Many authors today confuse foul language with good writing. The truly great authors could tell a wonderful and moving story without resorting to detailed sexual accounts, whose sole purpose seems to titillate. I'll take Charles Dickens any day over most of today's writers.

To David | 7:47 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Since you feel so free to tell Ms. Lim how to run her own business, I'm sure you'll permit me to suggest it's hypocritical of you to dishonestly suggest that she's dishonest.

You don't have the remotest notion of why she selected the books she did. You don't even know whether or not she has reviewed the Bible.

Yet you feel free to cavalierly accuse her of dishonesty because she didn't do things the way you think she should have.

The biggest hypocrites are those that stretch to find hypocrisy in the innocent actions of others.

Sarah | 9:48 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

The comments on this thread are some of the most twisted, ridiculous comments I've ever seen. She's reviewing books. She's not banning them, she's not forcing her views on others, she's not demanding that people stop reading books she finds offensive, she's offering a free service to those who wish to use it. How is that hateful? Some of us don't LIKE to read garbage, we like to read books that uplift us. That includes some classics, and discounts others. Just because a book (or a movie) is deemed to be excellent by the public at large doesn't mean it's worth reading (or seeing) to everybody.

To David: | 10:07 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

I personally love the story of Abraham and Isaac, and I think you're doing your children a huge disservice to learn a valuable lesson by not teaching them that story. There are some very important messages taught there: that not only are we required to sacrifice for Heavenly Father, sometimes greatly, not only are we required to do all that He asks of us, but also that if you love your family more than you love God, you're not worthy of Him. Each of these tenants is taught many times throughout the Bible, but you rarely see all three in one story.

Anti-PC Infidel | 10:12 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

>There is plenty of unwholesome material in the scriptures

A hormone-charged 13-year old might get that impression, but an adult can tell the difference.

Dan | 10:24 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

"...there is no greater calling, no greater challenge, and no greater source of joy--both proximate joy and ultimate joy--than is found in the process of discipleship. This process brings its own joys and reassurances. Don't, however, expect the world to understand or to value your discipleship. They will not. In a way, they may admire you from afar, but they will be puzzled about the priorities resulting from your devotion." Neal A. Maxwell, BYU Devotional, 27 March 1994

Maggie | 10:40 p.m. Sept. 15, 2008

Many of lifes most important accounts and lessons are shared through a history of graphic writings both historic and fiction. It's about establishing 'sense' and 'sensibility' in the broadest sense and within ourselves and should not be dependent on, what will certainly devolve into, the censorship of another whether its the initial purpose of the ratings process or not. In other words - learn for yourself and discuss.

To Maggie: | 8:20 a.m. Sept. 16, 2008

There are some things many of us don't want to "learn." Some things you can be forced to "learn" while reading what you thought was a decent book are things we don't wish to be exposed to. Foul language and explicit sex scenes do not make a good story, in my opinion. That is not entertainment, and that is not something I care to learn from what I choose to read.

Jeffrey | 3:22 p.m. Sept. 16, 2008

Dear Religious Fanatics,

I'm having a hard time making my own decisions in life. It seems I just can't decide for myself what is offensive or not. Many time I enjoy a work of art - be it a film, novel, or painting - but then am told I should be offended by it. Other times I am offended, but then am told I should not be.

Since I just seem to lack the ability to live my own life, can you please take it upon yourself to make those decisions for me? Please be so noble as to subject yourselves to all that you view as vile and repulsive, so that you can then warn me of the dangers.

I think that only then will I be able to make it through my days.

P.S. Oh, and if you could pass laws enforcing your judgment, it'd sure help a ton! Thanks!

Suzanne | 3:25 p.m. Sept. 16, 2008

I have known Cathy since we were teenagers. I've worked with her at three newspapers. I know her to be dedicated to both her religious beliefs and the priciples of the First Amendment. To those who picture her as a slavering book-burner: You could not be more wrong. Cathy is a fair-minded journalist who hopes her communication skills can be of some use. This is not censorship (a legal term applicable only to government bans, by the way). It is a service designed for a self-selecting community. Use it or don't. But the name-calling is unfair and undeserved.

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