Deseret News | No Utah welcome mat for illegals?

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No Utah welcome mat for illegals?

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Anonymous | 9:15 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

This is what we are going to hear over and over again at the GOP convention: Democrats are soft on terrorism and illegal immigration.

CiCi | 9:17 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

To Joe:

Not knowing some English may be a good indicator.

CiCi | 9:27 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

When will people STOP confusing the "Immigrant" statement with ILLEGAL. They are two different things.

Comments continue below

@ bob in line | 9:27 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

The reason this is still a problem is because we don't have any elected officials with b@lls enough to stand up to the problem because they don't want to appear racist. Which makes no sense since teh people of Utah keep voting for Chris Buttars and he's been called a racist over and over again. Show me a politician who cares about this country and/or this state more than their political image, and I'll vote for them every time no matter what party they belong to!

MMMMMMMMMMMM | 9:30 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

All of you should know that 80 to 85% of crime in US have been commited by a white or black guy. less than 2% for foreign people, this was an study made by the goverment from the 90's til 2004.
Ignorants!!!

Duncan Idaho | 9:34 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Seriously, people. Are these ï¿½illegals,ï¿½ as youï¿½ve been calling them (you know, theyï¿½re human beings too), really hurting you by working jobs like construction and landscape?

I hope you all realize just because someone is of Mexican descent DOES NOT make them a gang member or illegal (youï¿½ve all been watching the news too much). There are many Mexicans who are here legally. God bless you, Jo Jo, I think youï¿½ve hit this one on the nose. I also am reading racism very rampant in these comments. Please, stop feeding me this bull about ï¿½breaking lawsï¿½ when racism is the issue here.

Anyway, Mexicans were here in Utah long before we whities were. When the first Utah settlers came here, it was Mexican territory, remember? Maybe we should learn their language? (You know, most of the world speaks more than one language. But I guess "English is what makes America so great" right "concerned"?)

D.I. | 9:36 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

p.s. Iï¿½m definitely getting an idea of all you peopleï¿½s IQ level who write in all caps.

Illegal? | 9:40 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Anybody ever heard of malum in se and malum prohibitum? Malum in se means that something is morally wrong in and of itself. Malum in prohibitum means that something is wrong just because it's prohibited, not because it's morally wrong. Immigration laws are mostly malum prohibitum. There's nothing morally wrong with crossing an imaginary border; it's only wrong because it's forbidden by law.

"Illegal" immigrants have broken a law yes, but that is much less serious than breaking a law that prohibits immoral acts like stealing property or harming a person. If immigrants, or anybody for that matter, breaks a law that is malum in se, then they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. People who break laws that are malum prohibitum should be prosecuted, but the severity of the infraction is such that there should be flexibility there.

The reality is that there are 12 million "illegal" immigrants in the United States. We can't deport them all. As long as they are otherwise law abiding citizens we should help them assimilate. Make them pay some fine? Sure, but help them assimilate just like you would a new guy moving here from another state.

ACE | 9:40 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Americans look back on their treatment of the American Indians and Native Africans and hang their heads in shame. Can't we learn from history or does history have to repeat itself with the Latin Americans? They are human beings with families and feelings just like all of us. Come across legally? There is no such thing. Many of you sound like you are looking for a legal way to an old-fashioned lynching. The problem needs to be solved, but you don't round 'em up, throw 'em in jail or toss them back across the border. We are going to pay for our actions someday and I want no part of the inhumane treatment of my brothers.

John Pack Lambert | 9:41 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Latinos add much value to Utah. The economy in Utah thrives on their work. Many have started small enterprises that make marginal profits.
While not all of these are undocumented immigrants, some of you seem to think they are.
We should be friendly to new immigrants and stop letting the federal government dictate who is here based on narrow minded decisions. The system is broken. They are willing to let in educated people, especially if they have non-religious backgrounds, but hard working Christians who will do jobs that are in demand are not allowed in because of specific nation quotas and preferences for educated people.
Beyond this, while people from represive foriegn countries whose nationals have track records of avoiding leaving are alowed to come here as students, student visas for people from Latin America are routinely denied on the argument that they are "too poor to ever be expected to leave".
The fact of the matter is that there are thousands of citizens in Utah and probably millions in the United States whose current livelihood is conditioned on the continued employment of their parents. We should at least consider these citizens in our deliberations.

Anonymous | 9:54 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

We were born in this country and when we first moved to Utah we applied for Housing(Subsidized and Sec. 8) We were told that there would be a year to 18 month waiting list. Good hopefully we will not end up needing it. We called after the first year of waiting, it would be about 6 months. More than 6 months past called again to see how much longer we had to wait. Another year at least. They ran out of funds. Okay then why is it that the interperter for our military from Iran was immediately given(he was invited) housing - no wait at all. Seems this happens to a lot of those who come to this country especially when they are here uninvited but yet those who are born here and white are treated more like second class citizens and as though they are the illegals.

Also why is it that those of us who only speak english can't get a job but those who only speak spanish can? I have several neighbors who have homemakers and they speak little to no english. I would demand someone who only spoke English.

PLEASE LEAVE! | 9:55 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

USA cannot afford Illegals. They need to pack their bags and go home! We also cannot afford the crime they bring here. So nice little law breakers and leave before you are forced.

Dray | 10:03 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Let's think why illegal immigrants come here, because people keep hiring them to work. I'm Latino, I talk to people all the time about this.

Social Security doesn't work anymore, it is so easy to get fake SS cards, that have real SS numbers on them. SS is how everything is tracked in this country, it has been so abused that it is an inaccurate way to track anything (the number of illegal immigrants in this country is proof of that).

I don't like being discriminated against because I speak Spanish, but with all the problems immigration has caused, I understand where people are coming from. I'm all about people bettering their lives, but there are laws that need to be followed. Hopefully this great country takes huge steps to solve these problems before its too late.

Re: USA | 10:17 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

That was before it was a FELONY to come to the country illegally. That's the crazy thing about this country; we establish laws to help curb inappropriate behavior. Don't apply that time and situation to the current time -- Apples to Oranges!!

kris | 10:22 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

One is not a person of good will if they break our laws to be able to live here. They do not contribute to society when they are enjoying health care and schooling that we pay for.

bubba | 10:29 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

If they want to be here, then they should do it legally if not they have norights at all then they broke our laws ,. Let them be punished according to our laws.DO NOT reward them with jobs wefare or any other benefis, when you do they laugh at us .and call us stupid AMERICANS. I have heard this first hand.

Re: Duncan Idaho | 9:34 | 10:36 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Your right. We should stop watching the news so we won't know about the crimes illegals are committing. If we ignore the problem it will go away.

Most of the illegals are not poor fathers coming over to work hard to support their families. Most are criminals and come over hear and milk us poor blind fools dry and committ violent crimes in the process.

The Deuce | 10:37 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

I am one of those people who were hit by a car driven by an illegal who did not have a driver's licence or insurance. Their fault and my insurance paid to replace my car that was totaled. While I am in favor of a guest worker program, I am not in favor of individuals coming into the US illegaly. In Utah, the LDS Church has contributed to this by allowing illegal immigrants to be baptized members and then side-step honesty questions in order to attend the temple. True, these are all people who for the most part are trying to improve their lives. But, we are seeing an increase in crime and pressure on our welfare system and healthcare system. This has to stop and stop now. Until we have restructured the immigration laws, we need to enforce the ones we have now. Yes, we need to go after both employers and individuals who have broken the law. These people have accepted the risk associated with coming into this country illegaly. It is not the fault of law enforcement when they enforce the law. It's time to saddle up the horses and ride.

Re:MMMMMMMMMMMMM | 10:46 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

People are tired of crimes being committed against them and their families by illegal aliens. You call that racism? Far too many illegals bring crime, drugs, and gangs that kill seven year olds to our communities. People are tired of this and YOU call that racism. Get a clue on what racism is.

Anna | 10:49 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

My ancestors came to this country speaking English 300 years ago. So why are there now people working here we cannot understand their mixed (NOT TRUE SPANISH) language? It's hard to us sign language with these illegals who do not know how to speak English. I'm quit fed-up the way things are going. I truly wished these people would clime back underneath the same fences in which they came here and leave.

Unemployed Housewives | 10:51 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Then who will do the jobs the illegals are doing? Unemployed housewives of Utah lawmakers? Yeah, right. I'm sure they're too busy hanging out at the mall and gossiping on their cell phones to actually get a strenuous job.

We benefit from the labor of illegals, yet we put them down. That's intelligent. Kick them out of the state, and who makes up for that lost production and tax revenue, because they add to both. Are lawmakers prepared to jack up our taxes if they kick out illegals workers and the taxes they pay?

Renfrom | 11:04 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

I just can't believe the comments that I read here. It seems that most of you need a lesson in history. How about the CIA sponsored coup in Guatemala in the 50's and then 80's. Thousands of people died, and lots of them had to flee to ... the U.S. Nicaragua? Same story, first in the 20's then in the 80's. Do you remember the Contra scandal that "our local hero" Reagan backed up? Yup, that was Nicaragua in the 80's. People fleeing from Nicaragua to a safer place after our valiant ambassador in Honduras (Negroponte by the way) supplied the Contras from Honduras. How about Chile in the 70's? Another coup sponsored by our tax money; thousands killed and a military dictatorship imposed. Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia, Bolivia, Ecuador, Panamï¿½ (how to forget that one), all of these countries have suffered the anger of a foreign policy that doesn't allow for independent DEMOCRACIES to work according to the mandate of the people. Mexico is the prime example: NAFTA, and years of ransacking the country by transnational companies in agreement with the local government. Accepting immigrants is a bill that we owe that needs to be paid.

dave4197 | 11:12 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Your rants (by posters here and by politicians in Park City) about illegal immigrants refer to an 80% latino population, anyone with a brain concludes that your rants are racist. Stop resting on your phrase about the "rule of law" and recognize and admit your racist rants. The "illegal" immigration "problem" will be eliminated by a stroke of the pen of the US congress / administration.

Time to get to know your new neighbors, and stop hating them so rabidly. Time for our gov't leaders to spend more time organizing a better education effort for immigrants (and all students), spend more time speaking out for more tolerance. Our legislative nerds who quote the present bad law need a dose of reality - the existing law needs to be changed. Put your energy and effort into updating and fixing, instead of propping up a bad law.

Ummmm... | 11:13 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

So if I went to Mexico illegally, took a job using forged or stolen papers, and allowed the state to pay for all the medical needs of me and my family, do you honestly think for one SECOND the Mexican government wouldn't throw my butt in jail? I doubt they would just send me home to cross back into their country illegally again. We need to take a much harder line on these law breakers. Yes, they are people....people who don't care about breaking the laws.

CougarKeith | 11:32 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

I love all people, no matter what a person has done (Good or bad) there is something good about them, and somewhere to start to build a friendship with them. With that said, an illegal alien is that, a good person to some degree who shouldn't be here! They came here wrongfully. It doesn't matter whether they are Mexican, or Canadian, or European, or African, Asian or from Mars, they didn't enter the country Legally or have overextended their "Welcome" by not leaving when they were supposed too. HOW CAN THEY BE WELCOME no matter how nice they are are? They broke a law and must face the consequences, GO BACK HOME AND COME BACK LEGALLY! I get a kick out of everyone who complains when there is a "Raid" or something, the fact is, they shouldn't be here, and they won't turn themselves in. WE HAVE TO CATCH THESE PEOPLE AND SEND THEM BACK! No Amnesty, just go! Poor family, the dad was abducted by the government now they don't have a dad, he was deported! Well fix it, go to the Holding center and go back with HIM! SELFISH FAMILY lets him go back alone! Some Family?

It's a Little Late . . . | 11:55 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Sorry, folks, but "illegal" immigrants founded the United States of America and fostered its expansion, mostly destroying the political, governmental, and cultural systems of the land's previous inhabitants. Think what you want about whether this was divine destiny, or whatever, but it is a fact.

Does this mean we should go back in the "time machine" and start over? No.

Does it mean we, today, are responsible for the acts of our forefathers? No.

Does it mean we we should disregard our laws or the rule of law in our nation? No.

Does it mean that bleeding-heart liberals have all the answers on immigration? No.

Does it mean we should learn something from history, show some compassion, and come up with a legal approach to immigration that fosters a humane attitude towards people, families, and their lives? It does to me.

It's just too easy to say, "they're illegal, they're illegal, hang tough, throw them out. . . " etc.

Complex problems require a thoughtful response, and heaven knows this one is complicated.

DCS on foreign invaders | 11:57 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Like it or not this is a continual invasion of our country encouraged by an inept and horribly corrupt Mexican government that thumbs it's nose at the U.S. while demanding that Americans atone for their sins. American politicians will nonetheless continue to pander for the Mexican vote and ignore the pending disaster. Most Mexicans I know are among the most agreeable, hard-working and family-oriented people I know but their political culture has produced little if anything good. If we do not drastically reduce the flow of immigrants from failed societies we will soon inherit their political cultures and values rather than assimilating them into ours. The American southwest will effectively return to Mexico.

Gus in so Cal | 12:05 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

If you've been watching the news, you've probably heard that california has a $15 Billion dollar deficit this year. Los Angeles and Orange Counties have fired countless teachers so that the student teacher ratio is increasing from 25:1 to 33:1. 20,000 state employees had their pay reduced to minimum wage, which ends up being $266/week after taxes and benefits. These aren't rich business owners who are suffering, these are poorly paid state workers, teachers, and children.

Among other government waste, a huge part of the california deficit is due to the $10 billion per year that goes to fund welfare, healthcare, and education for illegal immigrants. I know that it's a sensitive issue because we are dealing with human beings, but if we don't take a stand now and enforce the law, the general condition of our communities will continue to deteriorate at an alarming rate and our debts will only increase.

Re: CougarKeith | 12:06 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Your comments really show how out of touch with reality and racist many from your University (who I've personally met) are.

True legal American | 12:08 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Gee, I don't need any illegal doing my yard work. I find it nice to do it myself. It's very good excise and gives me extra savings.

Federal Law | 12:22 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

The intire State Of Utah is a Federal Law Breaker
Where are the FEDS?
The Judicial Branch of Government is like a bunch of Gangsters milking the Public
The Courts are corrupt trying to employ Lawyers
The Lawyers are innorant of the Federal laws they are required to know.

Cool down, people | 12:26 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Those of you convinced that illegal immigrants are a drain on our economy could stand a little homework. The Wikipedia article "Economic impact of illegal immigrants in the United States" is a good starting point. Plenty of economists argue that our economy is better off because of migrant workers.

Those who think illegal immigrants cause increased crime need to do homework, too. Your assumption is contested by studies that have found crime rates to be significantly lower for illegal immigrants than for U.S. citizens--probably because they are afraid of doing anything that will put them in jeopardy of being deported.

Those upset because illegal immigrants don't have proper identification should understand the motivation for driver identification cards.

Those who feel a pathway to citizenship would give illegal immigrants the message that there is no penalty to breaking laws do not understand the price illegals pay to be here. They live in fear of getting caught. Employers exploit their status to pay them unfairly. They can't turn to the law for recourse. They pay taxes but fear using public services.

Try Elder Jensen's council: "Meet an undocumented person and come to know their family." Their goodness might surprise you.

Obama | 12:32 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

will solve the problem. He'll give them free medical care to encourage more illegal immigration. Hope the legal immigrants and citizens can afford their own medical care.

Anonymous | 12:50 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

"wet foot; dry foot" policy look it up.

It's not just Mexico........

Jan Garbett | 1:01 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

I applaud the Sutherland Institute for their civil and courageous stand. It is a privilege to have been born in this state and a privilege to welcome others seeking the bounties this area has to offer.

Stop the Lies | 1:03 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Those who say the Immigration system is broken, have no idea of how it works. The only change illegals want is for an open door to come and go as they choose. That is not reasonable, they want to live here, benefit from our social and medical services and send the bulk of their money to mexico to benefit their own country. This has to stop.

River rats | 1:07 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Round em up send em home... good idea! It's about time and none too soon. The ones that I have known personally are some of the rudest people that I have ever met. I am tired of them! TO-ILLEGALS---Your Mexico awaits you, so PlEASE leave. There is no place in the USA for anymore law breakers.

Madden | 1:11 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Kudos to all who understand that almost everyone would love to improve legal immigration. We are not a nation or state of bigots.

Shame on those who use racial politics to brand those who are simply tired of the burden illegal aliens foist upon us. And by the way, the burden goes way beyond dollars only...we are currently creating an immoral second class of people living in the shadows - most of whom are fine folks that deserve our pity. Our inconsistency in enforcing our laws is hurting them and us.

Immigrants are welcome here, but you have to do it right.

DD | 1:22 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

I abhor the Sutherland institute and their foolhardy pronouncements. Most of these "trust babies" need to go out and get a real job instead of sitting around trying to outsmart each other. If you read their report you'll notice how absolutely condescending it is.

For example they call illegal aliens "neighbors who live side-by-side with us" and then raise these questions "Do they have families like we do? Do they marry like we do? Do they divorce like we do? Are their family structures like ours". Does the Sutherland institute actually believe that these are burning questions which Utahns want answers to?

At the very least the Sutherland institute needs to acknowledge that they are Libertarians, not conservatives.

Cammie | 2:00 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

The Sutherland institute has it correct. They know what they are talking about.

djc | 2:10 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Yes, the way to fix this is to make them legal but not citizens. Issue an id card so we know who they are and so we can keep control. Make it easy and legal to come and go as they please so they don't feel it necessary to bring their families here, but revoke the privilege for anyone getting into any trouble. At the same time treat them as welcome guests so we and they don't feel like they are 2nd class.

Jassey | 2:23 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

To illegals...JUST LEAVE THE SAME WAY YOU CAME! Thank you!

I Was There | 2:31 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

The Sutherland Institute wanted to welcome those that are here committing ID fraud and theft, with open arms. However, they couldn't answer a question from a committee member on how many more we should accept and when and how would it ever be stopped. The Sutherland Institute was standing up the best they could for their cheap labor financial sponsors.

This hearing was not about arresting and deporting illegal aliens. It was about cutting off the magnet that draws them to Utah, cheap labor employers, social benefits and weak enforcement of our laws. The Sutherland Institute does not oppose these magnets.

There are plenty of folks in Utah that complain, but like the weather, fail to do anything about it, other than sit at their computer. Perhaps it would help to become involved with those that are doing something such as: UMP (The Minuteman Project), CCII (The Citizen Coalition on Illegal Immigration) or UFIRE (Utahns for Illegal Immigration Reform and Enforcement) They all have websites and contact information.

Big D | 2:51 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

LEAVE. Most of the people that want to accept illegals and help them are those who have not had their neighborhoods infested. The problem is they come here for a better life but bring their baggage with them. If it continues, in the not too distant future, the citizens of the US will be broke from supporting leaches, and Mexico will have just moved it's borders to the north a little.

Nat | 3:09 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

They're not "illegals." They are human beings.

Wake Up | 3:10 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

To: How to fix Illegal Immigration,

Here is how you really fix it:

A Presidential order that gives anyone who is here illegally 30 days to get out of the country or face 2 years in prison and a $50,000 fine. You also tell anyone here illegally that if caught they will never be allowed to become citizens of this country.

So this is the message:

GET OUT! GET OUT NOW! OR PAY A FINE AND GO TO PRISON!

Tell companies who need workers to find legal immigrants or pay someone enough to live on and they will have all the workers they want. We will all be saving millions of tax dollars so who cares if a hamburger cost an extra 50 cents or a tomato costs an extra dime? Stop coddling illegal criminals and bleeding heart liberal who want them here buy everyone else to pay for it.

One more thing... | 3:13 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Illegal immigrants pay into social security and never get any of it out. This is just one of the many ways that the US makes money off of and that citizens benefit from illegal immigration.

Bill | 3:13 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

The problem isn't just with the illegals. The problem is with our gutless federal government that can't muster the will to enforce the law. Far, far more applicants for legal visas should be processed and approved expeditiously, and the border should be patrolled diligently and violators punished. As it is, we can hardly blame some illegals. They can see that they would have to wait many years to come here to work legally, while their neighbors, good and bad alike, cross the border illegally and go unpunished.

Don't care... | 3:42 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

if illegals "add" or "take away" from the economy. Don't care if they are "good people." Don't care if their families are broken up.

They are ILLEGAL. Period. End of story. No discussion.

echo | 4:07 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008

We need a guest worker program- a way to legally allow non-citizens who want to work at undesirable jobs citizens don't want. It would go a long way to stop the exploitation of illegals, allow them to participate in legal society, pay taxes and feel like they can cooperate with law enforcement. Now, we have otherwise honest people afraid to report crime because they fear they would be targeted for deportation.

I lived along the border in Texas and Arizona and saw the sacrifices people made to give their families a better life. I didn't see a lazy, free-loader in the bunch. They work a lot harder every day than I have in my life. If I were in their shoes you'd better believe I'd do anything I could to come here. Count your blessings that you were born here and not there and quit judging people you don't understand.

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