Deseret News | 14 more FLDS kids dropped from YFZ custody battle

Reader comments
14 more FLDS kids dropped from YFZ custody battle

Marriage is not abuse! | 3:19 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008

Where did the idea come from that marriage is abuse? If someone gets married in America, they are free to divorce the next day. Where is the abuse? Is Texas trying to tell us that marriage is the same thing as sexual abuse? Marriage is as old as history, and was given as a protection from unwanted outside attention from the opposite sex. It is a mutual agreement between the parties to stay true and loyal to each other, and not be with those they haven't made that covenant with. In short marriage is a protection, not abuse.

anon | 4:52 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008

How easy do you think it would be for a 12-year-old to get a divorce, considering that she has no money, no job skills, no experience or interaction with the world outside her closed community, and very little education? To all that, add the fact that she is isolated in a place like El Dorado. Does she even know how to drive? Would she have access to a vehicle if she does? The above post is so incredibly off target that it becomes blatantly obvious that it is written by an FLDS!

common sense | 6:12 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008

The law in Texas says a girl under the age of 17 CANT give her consent, thats why!

Comments continue below

Interloper | 6:32 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008

'Marriage' is not really marriage when it is illegal. No one under the age of 16 can legally marry without parental or judicial permission in most states. Persons who are already married cannot marry. Nor can adult men legally have sexual relations with underage girls. Efforts to cloak these actions, all of which FLDS men engage in, in religion by calling them 'spiritual marriages.' have failed and will continue to fail.

zxcvbnm | 7:46 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008

Yep......got the marraige contract pretty much on the button.
The East Texas lobby were the ones screaming the most when Hildebrand raised the marraige age. Gotta be from east Texas.

re:marriage is not abuse | 7:59 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008

No marriage is not abuse! But FLDS plural marriages are NOT marriage. They are not recognized by civil law or authorized by the LORD GOD at the present time on earth so don't call it marriage. They were "mistresses" and that is that, END OF SUBJECT!

Candace | 8:18 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008

A lot of the posts on Deseret News are posted by FLDS, that's been clear to me for a long time. They have an agenda, and incovenient things like "facts" and "truth" make no difference to their arguments.

John Pack Lambert | 8:32 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008

To common sense,
Actually in Texas a girl 17 or under, that is under the age of 18, cannot give her consent. Parental permision through formal documents is rwquired for 16 and 17 year old girls, and for a girl 15 or younger to get married requires formal approval of a judge.
Any sexual relations between someone 18 or older with someone 17 or younger, unless they are legally married, constitute sexual abuse according to Texas law.
The problem comes up though that in the vast majority of such sexual reltions, even when they result in pregnancy, there is no prosecution. Beyond this, Planned Parenthood engages in a regular practice of aiding and abbeting statuatory rapists in destroying the incriminating evidence by encoraging girls who call up and tell them they are 14 and pregnant to lie when they come in for an abortion.
I may have understated the number of statutory rape cases that are prosecuted. It does happen. Althogh since there are parents who are perfectly ok with their 12-year-old having sex with a 21-year-old it is often hard to prosecute.

John Pack Lambert | 8:35 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008

My last reference was to a lady who I knew on my mission who was nominally Catholic, but if she went to mass twice a year I would be shocked.
The state had taken away her children for a time on accusations of abuse, so CPS did act against her. However since neither her nor her daughter would support the police in pressing statutory rape charges the man was never prosecuted.
On a related note, I read a study of statutory rape cases that were brought in Rhode Island. There 17 year olds having sex with any older person is acceptable. I can not remember if 16-year-olds having sex is a statutory rape issue. In virtually all cases the male was older than the female, and I think the average age for people charged with statutory rape was 28 or so. There were a good number in their 30s.
What the study concluded is that in general people got light sentances. I did not read the whole thing, but I suspect partly what happened was in many cases the girl came in and pleaded for leniency and went on about how wonderful the man is.

Not FLDS | 8:42 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008

I'm not FLDS and I'm not justifying this underage marriage thing at all. BUT, having said that, if a younger teenager can't give informed consent--how can she give informed consent to sexual activity outside of marriage--that makes no sense to me. And if you look at the birth rates and abortion rates of that age group, you can see that there are way too many girls giving UNinformed consent to sexual activity. I find that a large problem in our society. What can be done about that?

John Pack Lambert | 8:43 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008

To Interloper,
In all states in the United States the age for marriage without parental consent in 18. There are a few states that grant exceptions in the case of the woman being pregnant, but the theory behind such laws is that the couples would be similar in age.
I believe it is Maine where if someone is under age 21 they need parental permission to marry.
There is one state where the age actually is 19 not 18. Also, at least some states have clear provisions for being an emancipated minor, and in most states there is some method of legal appeal over parental objections to marriage.
However, in no state is it possible for a couple where one or both of them is under age 18 for the couple to get a marriage license through normal proceedures. In all cases some level of formal parental permission has to be legally recorded or some judicial process has to be invoked.
States differ on the exact procedes and requirements and weather parents need to be present at the issuing of the license or if a notorized statement from the parent is ok. But 18 is the line.

zxcvbnm | 12:33 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

Read it again John. The age of consent in Texas is 17.

tobydolly | 7:59 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008

for Interloper: "marriage is not abuse"
I agree... marriage by 2 adults who are in a relationship that developed over time into a life long committment and sealed by marriage.. that indeed is not abuse.
what is abuse: making a 12 year old marry an old man telling her she will not go to heaven if she does not obey.. telling her she will be left on earth if she does not produce babies and be sweet at all times, telling her she is to be obedient to her "husband" ... telling her she will be taken away from her family and home if she does not obey... and if her "husband" wasn't locked up, she'd most likely be the mother of 2 right now, provided she didn't miscarry at her tender age. And the most abusive part of it all... her parents gave her away to this old man at the age of 12. That is abuse. The 14 year old child was given a life sentence when she was handed over at the age of 12. CPS has given her life back to her. Imagine this: she grows up and marries the man she loves. Wow!

anonymous | 10:47 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008

The 12 year old was never married to Warren Jeffs. Just because someone says some words doesn't make you married. When you get married, you apply for a marriage license, then you get legally married. Marriage is a legally binding contract, it is not some guy saying a few magic words so the old guys can have sex with little girls.

zxcvbnm | 6:45 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008

Sure am glad you settled that Annon. So I guess Jeffs gets out of the bigamy charges and since the 12 year old denies having sex the abuse charges won't stick either.

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