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MormonTimes.com: A Mormon looks at the Quran
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Chris D. | 4:07 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
RE: Mark
Neither are allowed in your home? Wow. Afraid the ideas might jump out and force you to be a good person against your will?
Don't worry. Neither will convert you without your consent.
...Neither allowed in my home...unbelievable.
Objective discussions are an endangered species.
Neither are allowed in your home? Wow. Afraid the ideas might jump out and force you to be a good person against your will?
Don't worry. Neither will convert you without your consent.
...Neither allowed in my home...unbelievable.
Objective discussions are an endangered species.
Ello | 4:47 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Re: Illuminated
You list of "facts" are not "facts" they are opinion at best.
I think it is nice when people believe in something, but you should really open your eyes and stop talking down to people that don't share your views.
You should become secure with your faith and stop belittling others just because they think differently.
You list of "facts" are not "facts" they are opinion at best.
I think it is nice when people believe in something, but you should really open your eyes and stop talking down to people that don't share your views.
You should become secure with your faith and stop belittling others just because they think differently.
Comments continue below
JanSan | 4:54 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
So,, I have a question..This is not ment as a slight or a put down but one on
lack of understanding on my part. If the Koran is only in Arabic and many people
resite the words but do not understand what thoses words mean because they do
not know or understand the language - then how do they know what it is that they
are suppose to believe. How can a person truly have a testimony of something
unless they can read and UNDERSTAND what it is that they are reading. It seems
to me that people could go in and tell people all sorts of stuff like what we
see with terrorism and the people would not be able to refute it if they did not
truly understand themselves what is in the Koran. Please help me understand -
without any slaming..thanks
Granite Farmer | 5:13 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Illuminated.
That was a joke. I think you are the one who is not very smart.
The point is, people who make ridiculous statements with no facts to back, them up make as much sense as my statement.
There is not one bonified scientist who would back up any of the claims make above, and you know it.
Give me some names that I can verify, (not the ones from any LDS web sights) and I will be happy to eat crow.
That was a joke. I think you are the one who is not very smart.
The point is, people who make ridiculous statements with no facts to back, them up make as much sense as my statement.
There is not one bonified scientist who would back up any of the claims make above, and you know it.
Give me some names that I can verify, (not the ones from any LDS web sights) and I will be happy to eat crow.
Granite Farmer | 5:22 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Oh, and I am a Morman.
I just will not believe some of the original text in the Morman history.
I take what I need to live safely within my own mental health. I like the church for some reasons, and dislike it for other reasons. False history being one of those reasons. It makes me a better person to be able to toss aside unwanted, unreal, scripture.
J. Smith was just a man. Dont try and convince me that his stories were nothing but just that.
I want my children to be able to point out things they do not agree with, and not worry about people telling them that they are lost.
You can be a good Mormon, Muslim, Catholic, whatever, and still question all you want. It is healthy.
I just will not believe some of the original text in the Morman history.
I take what I need to live safely within my own mental health. I like the church for some reasons, and dislike it for other reasons. False history being one of those reasons. It makes me a better person to be able to toss aside unwanted, unreal, scripture.
J. Smith was just a man. Dont try and convince me that his stories were nothing but just that.
I want my children to be able to point out things they do not agree with, and not worry about people telling them that they are lost.
You can be a good Mormon, Muslim, Catholic, whatever, and still question all you want. It is healthy.
Max in Draper | 6:58 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
I always find it interesting that those who claim faith want to look for
physical evidence to support their claims. There is almost no physical
evidence for Jesus, Abraham, Muhammad, Buddha and the founders of many of the
world's great religions. Why do some feel compelled to hold Joseph Smith
to a higher standard?
Whether the stories in the Book of Mormon are historical facts or simply allegorical tales, faith says they are God's words to us which give us a morale foundations for guidance and direction. Expecting them to be something more than that is a recipie for disappointment.
Whether the stories in the Book of Mormon are historical facts or simply allegorical tales, faith says they are God's words to us which give us a morale foundations for guidance and direction. Expecting them to be something more than that is a recipie for disappointment.
Reece B | 7:11 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Granite Farmer:
What is a Morman?
What is a Morman?
sb | 7:11 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
The golden plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated have been seen
and handled. After Joseph Smith completed the work that was asked of him the
plates were returned to the angel Moroni and he has them in his keeping. Read
Testimony of Three Witnesses, Testimony of Eight Witnesses, then read the
Testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith in the Book of Mormon. This explains who
has seen them and where the plates are today.
Re: Erniest T. Bass | 7:18 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
What part of Mormonism teaches us to strap bombs on ourselves and kill as many
"infidels" as we can so we can go to heaven? I must have missed that
in my R.S. classes! So much for Islam being true!
To JanSan, | 9:09 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
"How can a person truly have a testimony of something unless they can read
and UNDERSTAND?"
Good question.
�I believe that no matter how diligently you try, you cannot with your human mind fully comprehend the eternal significance of the Atonement nor fully understand how it was accomplished.�
--Richard G. Scott, Ensign, Nov2006
�The most important thing we can do in preparing individuals to receive the full blessings of the Atonement is to understand it and to believe in it ourselves.�
--Neal A. Maxwell, Ensign, Oct2001
�Here we have exalted, noble beings on a plane and status so far above our present circumstance that we have no way of comprehending their dominion and glory� performing a work that there is no way for us to understand as far as magnitude and glory and importance is concerned.�
�Now we cannot comprehend, we do not understand, we do not know nor can we in our present state, how the effects of this infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice passed upon all men.�
--Bruce R. McConkie, New Era1984
How do LDS have a testimony of Atonement? Is it a �Ransom Theory�, �Satisfaction Theory�, �Moral Influence Theory", Or �Penal Substitution� theory?
They don't understand.
Good question.
�I believe that no matter how diligently you try, you cannot with your human mind fully comprehend the eternal significance of the Atonement nor fully understand how it was accomplished.�
--Richard G. Scott, Ensign, Nov2006
�The most important thing we can do in preparing individuals to receive the full blessings of the Atonement is to understand it and to believe in it ourselves.�
--Neal A. Maxwell, Ensign, Oct2001
�Here we have exalted, noble beings on a plane and status so far above our present circumstance that we have no way of comprehending their dominion and glory� performing a work that there is no way for us to understand as far as magnitude and glory and importance is concerned.�
�Now we cannot comprehend, we do not understand, we do not know nor can we in our present state, how the effects of this infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice passed upon all men.�
--Bruce R. McConkie, New Era1984
How do LDS have a testimony of Atonement? Is it a �Ransom Theory�, �Satisfaction Theory�, �Moral Influence Theory", Or �Penal Substitution� theory?
They don't understand.
Maggie | 9:09 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Any person of either the Christian or the Muslim faith, who are either
predisposed or indoctrinated (or both) to exacting violence against those not of
their faith have plenty of ammunition in both the Bible and the Quran to justify
and encourage it. The question is - why? My God is one of neither violence nor
force.
anti spin | 9:16 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Religion is religion. God created many.
Pompous J A | 9:22 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Nothing about this article makes too much sense. Can someone please rewrite it?
natural eyes | 9:50 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
"The Prophet Joseph Smith, and Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer and myself,
went into a little grove to pray to obtain a promise that we should behold it
with our NATURAL EYES, that we could testify of it to the world. We prayed two
or three times and at length an angel stood before Oliver and showed them the
plates, but I had gone off by myself for I knew it was me that was keeping the
angel from appearing. In my desperation I asked the Prophet seer to kneel down
with me and to pray for me also that I may also see the plates, and we did kneel
down and pray. Immediately, the angel stood before me and said, "Look"
and when I glanced at the angel, I fell, but I stood on my feet and saw the
angel turn the leaves of gold and I said, "It is enough, my Lord and my
God." I then heard the voice of God say, "The book is true and
translated correctly."
There is so much material documenting this incident that to say these men saw it with spiritual eyes is complete conjecture.
There is so much material documenting this incident that to say these men saw it with spiritual eyes is complete conjecture.
TRUTH!! GREAT POINT!! | 10:27 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
This article is VERY MISPLACED!!
This was more about the translation format and purpose behind they way the translate in comparison to the LDS belief system RATHER than an ACTUAL commentary about a Mormon perspective on the Quran. This was only a perspective on what the book basically is and then comparing their form of translation to our own.
Why even write the article? I'd have written MUCH more into the belief similarities/differences and commented in a productive way about how the two religions either share beliefs or could work together to further both paths on this earth and helping the rest of the earth by having a mutual friendship/certain beliefs(charity etc) with another group. All this does is say. Hey, it's a book about a guy....and WE translate this way, THEY do this way... that's really interesting....!?!?!?!?
I would have hoped for more out of this. I'm not trying to cut this down, I only with there was more of an actual article talking about something productive and interesting.
This was more about the translation format and purpose behind they way the translate in comparison to the LDS belief system RATHER than an ACTUAL commentary about a Mormon perspective on the Quran. This was only a perspective on what the book basically is and then comparing their form of translation to our own.
Why even write the article? I'd have written MUCH more into the belief similarities/differences and commented in a productive way about how the two religions either share beliefs or could work together to further both paths on this earth and helping the rest of the earth by having a mutual friendship/certain beliefs(charity etc) with another group. All this does is say. Hey, it's a book about a guy....and WE translate this way, THEY do this way... that's really interesting....!?!?!?!?
I would have hoped for more out of this. I'm not trying to cut this down, I only with there was more of an actual article talking about something productive and interesting.
John Pack Lambert | 10:28 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
To Pete,
The Book of Mormon is not the message delivered by an angel. The Book of Mormon is a translation of a set of writtings delivered by an angel. It internally even tells us to not condemn it for its errors.
The Book of Mormon also does not recieve additions. It is true that Joseph Smith made some minor textual changes, such as changing that to which in a lot of cases. However Joseph would have considered this a translation from his own, colloquial English that he translated the Book of Mormon into to an English that was more standard.
The Doctrine and Covenants is the word of Jesus Christ in the most part, and is recieved over time. However some of the sections are reports on events, and it is not viewed as an infalible text. Joseph Smith's understanding of the words of Christ is not neccesarily exact. Also, Section 2, the First Chronilogically is the words of Moroni, another is the words of John the Baptist, another a translation of a document by John the Beloved that Joseph Smith was shown by the Urim and Thummim.
The Book of Mormon is not the message delivered by an angel. The Book of Mormon is a translation of a set of writtings delivered by an angel. It internally even tells us to not condemn it for its errors.
The Book of Mormon also does not recieve additions. It is true that Joseph Smith made some minor textual changes, such as changing that to which in a lot of cases. However Joseph would have considered this a translation from his own, colloquial English that he translated the Book of Mormon into to an English that was more standard.
The Doctrine and Covenants is the word of Jesus Christ in the most part, and is recieved over time. However some of the sections are reports on events, and it is not viewed as an infalible text. Joseph Smith's understanding of the words of Christ is not neccesarily exact. Also, Section 2, the First Chronilogically is the words of Moroni, another is the words of John the Baptist, another a translation of a document by John the Beloved that Joseph Smith was shown by the Urim and Thummim.
re:Ken | 12:50 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008
If you took some time to talk to a Muslim, or at least read what some of them
have to say, you'd realize that the terrorists DO NOT mirror the general
part of the faithful Muslims. Osama has been disowned by his family. Let me
say this, your opinion on Muslims committing acts of terrorism is similar to
someone unfamiliar with the LDS Church grouping FLDS members, polygamists, and
your LDS missionary into the same religion. Somehow someday I hope we can
convince mainstream American that Muslims are not terrorists, some terrorists
were brought up Muslim!
TRUTH To: Mrs. Bass | 7:23 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008
I do not attack Muslims but I will defend my religion.
To say that because Muslims are 1 billion strong and the LDS are much smaller has NO BEARING on which one holds truth and gives actual revelation.
In a CHRISTIAN world there is a belief in God and his revelations, angels, etc. Many say this is the past but the only logic is simply this: I either am given truth in the form of revelation or I make up a lie that I call truth.
You cannot MAKE UP the truth. The LDS church is the ONLY church to teach that we receive constant revelation from a constant source of truth with authority through a direct line. We are SO 'organized' because in a world with so much chaos about truth there needs to be the strongest possible line of authority to receive truth. Only we have established this and only we claim to receive revelation. In ALL respect to other religions, the Catholic church decides whether they believe in something and their bishops vote on it.
To say that because Muslims are 1 billion strong and the LDS are much smaller has NO BEARING on which one holds truth and gives actual revelation.
In a CHRISTIAN world there is a belief in God and his revelations, angels, etc. Many say this is the past but the only logic is simply this: I either am given truth in the form of revelation or I make up a lie that I call truth.
You cannot MAKE UP the truth. The LDS church is the ONLY church to teach that we receive constant revelation from a constant source of truth with authority through a direct line. We are SO 'organized' because in a world with so much chaos about truth there needs to be the strongest possible line of authority to receive truth. Only we have established this and only we claim to receive revelation. In ALL respect to other religions, the Catholic church decides whether they believe in something and their bishops vote on it.
TRUTH To: Mrs. Bass (part 2) | 7:29 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008
The First Council of Nicaea was held to DECIDE what they believed. To decide
what you believe is a lie and that is proven by the fact that it was a decision
to create the truth. To say that you have been told the truth and you believe in
it. You have no proof, but that you have faith in it is something which cannot
be argued because you are openly stating you have no evidence but that you agree
with its form and that you have either tested it with your faith or that you are
giving to that belief.
In a Christian world the only truth if there is one would have to be in the LDS church simply because we are the only organization which claims to receive revelation and doesn't vote on what we believe. We vote on things, whether a congregation will support a Bishop that he is a clean and upright man with authority to lead our ward. But have we EVER voted on doctrine? NOW THAT is blaspheme and the Catholic church could never argue otherwise. The reason I bring this up is that Muslims do not continue in revelation. Where is truth?
In a Christian world the only truth if there is one would have to be in the LDS church simply because we are the only organization which claims to receive revelation and doesn't vote on what we believe. We vote on things, whether a congregation will support a Bishop that he is a clean and upright man with authority to lead our ward. But have we EVER voted on doctrine? NOW THAT is blaspheme and the Catholic church could never argue otherwise. The reason I bring this up is that Muslims do not continue in revelation. Where is truth?
RE Anitispin | 9:29 p.m. Aug. 28, 2008
God has only one religion: HIs.
Man created the many religions. An For as many reasons.
For God to have have created many religion would be a God of anarchy, defying what is truth, decieving some, and He would cease to be God.
There is only One God, one truth, one way. Although some religions have part.
Man created the many religions. An For as many reasons.
For God to have have created many religion would be a God of anarchy, defying what is truth, decieving some, and He would cease to be God.
There is only One God, one truth, one way. Although some religions have part.
Correction | 8:21 a.m. Aug. 30, 2008
To TRUTH To: Mrs. Bass,
Wow, have you ever been brainwashed by Mormon apologists!
Do you honestly believe that the LDS Apostles do not �vote� about what the LDS believe? They didn�t vote on polygamy? They didn�t vote on the blacks receiving the priesthood? They didn�t vote on changing the Introduction to the BOM to eliminate the word �principal�? Clearly, you don�t know how it works up there in SLC.
ALL of the ecumenical councils, including the Council of Nicaea, were simply CORRELATION meetings, no different than the function currently served in the LDS Church by the CORRELATION DEPARTMENT. Back in the 1900�s, BH Roberts, James E. Talmage, and a few others formed a Correlation Committee that correlated the Doctrine of the Church. There were many �votes� taken. They �voted� to remove the Lectures on Faith from the canon of scripture (the �Doctrine� of the Doctrine and Covenants), which happened in the 1921 edition.
You also don�t understand any other religion. Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, as well as Islam (Shiites, Sufis, and others) ALL continue in revelation from God!
You have no clue what you are talking about!
Wow, have you ever been brainwashed by Mormon apologists!
Do you honestly believe that the LDS Apostles do not �vote� about what the LDS believe? They didn�t vote on polygamy? They didn�t vote on the blacks receiving the priesthood? They didn�t vote on changing the Introduction to the BOM to eliminate the word �principal�? Clearly, you don�t know how it works up there in SLC.
ALL of the ecumenical councils, including the Council of Nicaea, were simply CORRELATION meetings, no different than the function currently served in the LDS Church by the CORRELATION DEPARTMENT. Back in the 1900�s, BH Roberts, James E. Talmage, and a few others formed a Correlation Committee that correlated the Doctrine of the Church. There were many �votes� taken. They �voted� to remove the Lectures on Faith from the canon of scripture (the �Doctrine� of the Doctrine and Covenants), which happened in the 1921 edition.
You also don�t understand any other religion. Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, as well as Islam (Shiites, Sufis, and others) ALL continue in revelation from God!
You have no clue what you are talking about!
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Sorry but none of that is verifiable physical evidence. If it was you wouldn't need faith... Mormonism would be proven true with physical evidence. And no it wouldn't hold up in a court of law. There is doubt. But good try anyways.