Reader comments
10 more FLDS children to be dropped from YFZ custody case
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Joey | 5:37 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
Hello? They never had a reason to open those cases in the first place, other
than they're being in the FLDS. Since when is religious affiliation
automatic cause for opening a CPS case? They should have closed these cases the
instant the appeals court ruled that the whole ranch was not one household. CPS
needs to be sued yesterday.
zxcvbnm | 6:27 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
Great! 160 free children. I guess CPS got the pregnancy tests back from the lab.
CPS is now busy with the case of the boy of Barbaras and his illegal chicken coop. Only beef lovers have been assigned to the case to prevent claims of bias by critics of CPS.
I hear they have purched a book on chicken and farm animal rights from PETA to better understand the culture of poultry eaters.
zxcvbnm | 6:59 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
Crimmins said he was unaware of any plans to re-remove anyone else. CPS lawyers are expected to nonsuit more cases in the coming weeks.
"Unaware" will become the new slogan of CPS.
Unaware it was in violation of their own regulations to remove the kids in the first place.
Unaware that the vast majority of allegations against the families were wild rumors.
Unaware that grown women were the only pregnant persons on the ranch.
oh brother.....they certainly were "unaware"
But the biggie...the real biggie.......CPS was unaware that the nut that made the call was on the phone with Flora for close to 40 hours.....convenient ignorance.
Comments continue below
Joey | 7:39 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
BUT I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS A LIE
says the CPS worker and LE man
(where's choice2 when you need him) :)
says the CPS worker and LE man
(where's choice2 when you need him) :)
Stinky | 7:48 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
Who cares...You guys are boring the rest of us to sleep. Same old-same old. But
you poliggies must realize the authorities are not done with the ones who have
committed crimes... you folk better head for the hills...lol!
choice2 | 10:49 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
Thanks for the props Joey.
I was just passing by and heard my name.
Since I�m here I�ll have to add my thoughts;
Patrick Crimmins said "The only reason we're ending the legal case is
we don't feel it needs to be under the supervision of the court,"
The ONLY reason? What kind of slick jive talk is this?
Come on now Patrick, be a man, stand up and say it.
�We should have never taken these kids in the first place�.
I�m not sure how to take this �ONLY reason� statement.
Does he mean �If we didn�t get caught by the court system,
we wouldn�t be doing this? It just seems like a strange choice of words.
I was just passing by and heard my name.
Since I�m here I�ll have to add my thoughts;
Patrick Crimmins said "The only reason we're ending the legal case is
we don't feel it needs to be under the supervision of the court,"
The ONLY reason? What kind of slick jive talk is this?
Come on now Patrick, be a man, stand up and say it.
�We should have never taken these kids in the first place�.
I�m not sure how to take this �ONLY reason� statement.
Does he mean �If we didn�t get caught by the court system,
we wouldn�t be doing this? It just seems like a strange choice of words.
choice2 | 12:21 a.m. Aug. 27, 2008
April 4, 2008; Patrick Crimmins said,
"children are removed when authorities determine they have been or are in
immediate risk of being abused or neglected".
HE DIDN�T KNOW THEY WOULD HAVE TO TELL A LIE.
April 4, 2008; Darrell Azar, a spokesman for DFPS said
"We legally removed 18 children. We concluded they had been abused or were at immediate risk of future abuse,"
>>>>>>>> He said what he considered �legally� done.
HE DIDN�T KNOW THEY WOULD HAVE TO TELL A LIE.
>>>>>>> When they couldn�t find evidence of abuse like they thought they would, they concocted �the ranch is one household� lie. As we all know higher courts called them out on this.
BUT THEY DIDN�T KNOW IT WAS A LIE.
April 4, 2008; Patrick Crimmins said �Thirty one of 53 girls between 14 and 17 have children, are pregnant or both,�
Apr. 30, 2008; Patrick Crimmins said �ALL 26 females now deemed to be minors have children�.
>>>>>>>> How many were really mothers? One or two?
HE DIDN�T KNOW IT WAS A LIE.
"children are removed when authorities determine they have been or are in
immediate risk of being abused or neglected".
HE DIDN�T KNOW THEY WOULD HAVE TO TELL A LIE.
April 4, 2008; Darrell Azar, a spokesman for DFPS said
"We legally removed 18 children. We concluded they had been abused or were at immediate risk of future abuse,"
>>>>>>>> He said what he considered �legally� done.
HE DIDN�T KNOW THEY WOULD HAVE TO TELL A LIE.
>>>>>>> When they couldn�t find evidence of abuse like they thought they would, they concocted �the ranch is one household� lie. As we all know higher courts called them out on this.
BUT THEY DIDN�T KNOW IT WAS A LIE.
April 4, 2008; Patrick Crimmins said �Thirty one of 53 girls between 14 and 17 have children, are pregnant or both,�
Apr. 30, 2008; Patrick Crimmins said �ALL 26 females now deemed to be minors have children�.
>>>>>>>> How many were really mothers? One or two?
HE DIDN�T KNOW IT WAS A LIE.
zxcvbnm | 8:09 a.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Look at the Crimmons answer to the 5th Circuit court ruleing.....The court shot down future mass roundups and will hold CPS persons liable......no immunity if they see things that aren't there.
Crimmons thought the ruling was needed.
The US 5th Circuit just put the Voss CPS out of business.
Anonymous | 11:00 a.m. Aug. 27, 2008
so - if all you supporters can take off your CPS hater hats for a minute - I
have a question.
My question is - is what the FLDS do to their children morally and ethically fair to the children.
do you think it's fair for the children to be totally isolated from the world, not have an understanding of the life choices available, not understand how the world works, and not be able to choose a future career or anything else?
Think about it before you answer, and keep in mind that there are millions of things one can do in life and an FLDS child will grow up to do very few of them (mostly because they won't even know that they exist).
Think about how you got to where you are today (assuming you are pleased with where you are) and ask yourself if you could have gotten there if you were raised in an FLDS enclave.
A simple yes or no will do, or you can elaborate, but please don't quote some legal statute, nor some scripture. I just want your opinion on this particular topic.
I appreciate your responses.
My question is - is what the FLDS do to their children morally and ethically fair to the children.
do you think it's fair for the children to be totally isolated from the world, not have an understanding of the life choices available, not understand how the world works, and not be able to choose a future career or anything else?
Think about it before you answer, and keep in mind that there are millions of things one can do in life and an FLDS child will grow up to do very few of them (mostly because they won't even know that they exist).
Think about how you got to where you are today (assuming you are pleased with where you are) and ask yourself if you could have gotten there if you were raised in an FLDS enclave.
A simple yes or no will do, or you can elaborate, but please don't quote some legal statute, nor some scripture. I just want your opinion on this particular topic.
I appreciate your responses.
Hugh McBryde | 12:09 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
It has now been shown that no pregnant girls were visually seen at YFZ. There
might have been pregnant girls under the age of consent, but the only ones
giving birth since the raid were of age at the time of conception.
There were no "Girls seen with children," either. Of the indicted by the Grand Jury, only Veda Keate could have been a "child with a child" seen at YFZ. She was not.
Thus the second cause, for the second warrant, while oft repeated, is also no cause. They only indictments have come from evidence obtained when Texas fraudulently claimed to see things that they did not, and in fact they could not have seen even if they were occurring.
A pregnant 13 year old is not evidence of a crime. It often is, but it is not since she could have been raped in Mexico or she could have a 13 year old lover.
Similarly a child with a child of her own, is not evidence either.
What Texas claims is to have seen something they did not see, and actually, could not have seen.
There were no "Girls seen with children," either. Of the indicted by the Grand Jury, only Veda Keate could have been a "child with a child" seen at YFZ. She was not.
Thus the second cause, for the second warrant, while oft repeated, is also no cause. They only indictments have come from evidence obtained when Texas fraudulently claimed to see things that they did not, and in fact they could not have seen even if they were occurring.
A pregnant 13 year old is not evidence of a crime. It often is, but it is not since she could have been raped in Mexico or she could have a 13 year old lover.
Similarly a child with a child of her own, is not evidence either.
What Texas claims is to have seen something they did not see, and actually, could not have seen.
nosugrof | 12:17 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Drop the rest of the cases. Return Merrianne. Indict Angie Voss.
realitycheck | 1:18 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
obviously I forgot to put my name on the 11 am post. Didn't want you to
think I was hiding behind an anonymous post...
Joey | 2:15 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Yes Hugh, agreed. as I've said...how can "good faith" exist in
such a preponderance of falsities.
Anon, the kids in the FLDS do have a choice to have a career, etc., they can leave the FLDS whenever they want. There was an article about that in the Salt Lake City Weekly today.
Anon, the kids in the FLDS do have a choice to have a career, etc., they can leave the FLDS whenever they want. There was an article about that in the Salt Lake City Weekly today.
realitycheck | 2:21 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
re nosugrof 12:17pm
I would say the girl is better off where she is. She'll be under the spotlight until she reaches 18 so abuse is highly unlikely. She has a chance to attend a real school, will have opportunities to actually read real books so her brain can develop properly, and will gain an understanding of how the world works so she can somewhat determine her own future.
beats being isolated from the world, not allowed to read 99.99999% of books, and never understanding the choices in life that come with freedom in the USA.
She might even develop a cure for cancer or find a new species of dinosaur bones (that FLDS say don't exist). You just never know where people will end up if given half a chance... (can't wait for the inevitable sarcasm)
Note that I'm not saying legally the girl should be there, because I'm not a lawyer (although her mother did pimp her out at 12 so the mother certainly shouldn't have custody of her). Just saying for her long term freeedom, she's much better off where she is.
Hopefully all you Texas/CPS haters will recognize that this is only an OPINION.
I would say the girl is better off where she is. She'll be under the spotlight until she reaches 18 so abuse is highly unlikely. She has a chance to attend a real school, will have opportunities to actually read real books so her brain can develop properly, and will gain an understanding of how the world works so she can somewhat determine her own future.
beats being isolated from the world, not allowed to read 99.99999% of books, and never understanding the choices in life that come with freedom in the USA.
She might even develop a cure for cancer or find a new species of dinosaur bones (that FLDS say don't exist). You just never know where people will end up if given half a chance... (can't wait for the inevitable sarcasm)
Note that I'm not saying legally the girl should be there, because I'm not a lawyer (although her mother did pimp her out at 12 so the mother certainly shouldn't have custody of her). Just saying for her long term freeedom, she's much better off where she is.
Hopefully all you Texas/CPS haters will recognize that this is only an OPINION.
To zvbxcmn | 2:26 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
I hope I got those letter right!
Tell me, what is the evidence that the hoax caller was on the phone with Flora Jessop for nearly 40 hours?
That would certainly explain how she could sound so authentic.
Tell me, what is the evidence that the hoax caller was on the phone with Flora Jessop for nearly 40 hours?
That would certainly explain how she could sound so authentic.
realitycheck | 3:33 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
re Joey 2:15pm
I read the article. it stresses how difficult it is to leave the FLDS because you have:
no realistic education
minimal social skills
great fear since you've been brought up that everyone is evil
etc...
And once you leave, you are pretty much banished for life, so you are forced to choose between your family and freedom. Doesn't sound very fair to me.
so I stand by my 11am post (sorry I forgot to put my name on it).
I never said a person couldn't get out, or "escape" as authors like to put it. All I said is that being isolated from the world and not allowed to read books, etc is extremely unfair to the child, and makes it extremely difficult to have a different life - a life of your own choosing.
and therefore I personally would rather live in foster care than in the FLDS...
btw - for the record, I have a real problem with authority, so that may explain some of it....
I read the article. it stresses how difficult it is to leave the FLDS because you have:
no realistic education
minimal social skills
great fear since you've been brought up that everyone is evil
etc...
And once you leave, you are pretty much banished for life, so you are forced to choose between your family and freedom. Doesn't sound very fair to me.
so I stand by my 11am post (sorry I forgot to put my name on it).
I never said a person couldn't get out, or "escape" as authors like to put it. All I said is that being isolated from the world and not allowed to read books, etc is extremely unfair to the child, and makes it extremely difficult to have a different life - a life of your own choosing.
and therefore I personally would rather live in foster care than in the FLDS...
btw - for the record, I have a real problem with authority, so that may explain some of it....
re zxcvbnm 6:27pm | 6:09 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
don't you mean 160 free children now going back to isolation and
repression?
no? not what you meant? FLDS = freedom? now that's a different thought process.....
no? not what you meant? FLDS = freedom? now that's a different thought process.....
CURIOUS | 5:15 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008
Anonymous,and Realitycheck, some fine comments from you both, I totally agree
with you both, isn't it nice to have freedom of speach, and we all
don't hide behind the 5th ammendment.
R | 8:00 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008
Think about how you got to where you are today (assuming you are pleased with
where you are) and ask yourself if you could have gotten there if you were
raised in an FLDS enclave.
I'd probably be living in a different state, but other than that, yes.
I'd probably be living in a different state, but other than that, yes.
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