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FLDS struggle beyond YFZ Ranch borders
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John Pack Lambert | 3:07 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
To the 5:23 commentator,
Who did the FLDS ever murder?
Who did the FLDS ever murder?
John Pack Lambert | 3:14 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
To David at 6:16,
Polygamy is illegal. We should enforce the laws. If you want to legalize it, contact your representative or get a petition drive to put the issue on the ballot. However, as long as laws against polygamy are on the books they should be enforced.
Polygamy is illegal. We should enforce the laws. If you want to legalize it, contact your representative or get a petition drive to put the issue on the ballot. However, as long as laws against polygamy are on the books they should be enforced.
Comments continue below
realitycheck | 3:13 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
re David 2:14pm -
actually, all my posts have been clear and concise. And I believe this is a serious issue. No need to be rude simply because you disagree with my opinion.
zxcvbnm on the other hand has a habit of making everything a joke. That's what I meant.
And since you are so pro-FLDS and I feel they rob children of their future, I guess we can see that you care about the adults (who can stick up for themselves) and I care about the children (who can't).
And none of this has to do with polygamy, so I don't understand your 6:16am post. This has to do with a group of people that refuse to allow their children to decide what they want to be when they grow up. The parents ENSURE the children will be just like them and do exactly what they are told.
You may be ok with that, but I put it in the same category as slavery.
Now I've been saying this for a while, and it's unclear to me which part is "childish, emotional, and irrational" but I assume you will tell me....
actually, all my posts have been clear and concise. And I believe this is a serious issue. No need to be rude simply because you disagree with my opinion.
zxcvbnm on the other hand has a habit of making everything a joke. That's what I meant.
And since you are so pro-FLDS and I feel they rob children of their future, I guess we can see that you care about the adults (who can stick up for themselves) and I care about the children (who can't).
And none of this has to do with polygamy, so I don't understand your 6:16am post. This has to do with a group of people that refuse to allow their children to decide what they want to be when they grow up. The parents ENSURE the children will be just like them and do exactly what they are told.
You may be ok with that, but I put it in the same category as slavery.
Now I've been saying this for a while, and it's unclear to me which part is "childish, emotional, and irrational" but I assume you will tell me....
realitycheck | 3:32 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
John Pack Lambert 2:54pm:
Your first statement is entirely incorrect. I absolutely do not want to destroy the FLDS. I also stand by my statement that it is better to be abused in foster care than to grow up FLDS. That IN NO WAY trivializes the abuse or rape. It is merely the lesser of two evils.
It's unclear to me what you do not understand. All of these "constitution citers" are decrying the actions of Texas. Yet they ignore the fundemental truth that the FLDS parents STRICTLY PREVENT a child from attempting to choose their own path.
IN MY OPINION that is a MUCH worse offense than Texas violating the civil rights of some adults.
There is no reason to prevent the children from having a decent understanding of the world around them and what opportunities are available. The parents say they are "protecting the childen from the evils of the world" when in fact they are merely ensuring they will never leave.
There are a million interesting things to do in life and these kids will do none of them. They will as they are told.
IN MY OPINION, that is a fate worse than death.
Your first statement is entirely incorrect. I absolutely do not want to destroy the FLDS. I also stand by my statement that it is better to be abused in foster care than to grow up FLDS. That IN NO WAY trivializes the abuse or rape. It is merely the lesser of two evils.
It's unclear to me what you do not understand. All of these "constitution citers" are decrying the actions of Texas. Yet they ignore the fundemental truth that the FLDS parents STRICTLY PREVENT a child from attempting to choose their own path.
IN MY OPINION that is a MUCH worse offense than Texas violating the civil rights of some adults.
There is no reason to prevent the children from having a decent understanding of the world around them and what opportunities are available. The parents say they are "protecting the childen from the evils of the world" when in fact they are merely ensuring they will never leave.
There are a million interesting things to do in life and these kids will do none of them. They will as they are told.
IN MY OPINION, that is a fate worse than death.
realitycheck | 3:38 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
so in other words -
let the kids read some books
show them some movies or the discovery channel
let them understand the different choices in life
LET THEM HAVE A CAREER DAY AT SCHOOL
do you kind of get my issue now, John?
let the kids read some books
show them some movies or the discovery channel
let them understand the different choices in life
LET THEM HAVE A CAREER DAY AT SCHOOL
do you kind of get my issue now, John?
realitycheck | 3:52 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
I keep reading your 2:54 post, John, and I guess since you don't know me
you could perhaps come to the conclusion that I "hate the FLDS". If
you have merely been reading the words I write and not actually thought about
what I was saying, then I guess you could construe that. But again, you are
totally wrong. I should be offended, but I realize some here may have the
adgenda you speak of.
And I readily admit - I am not trying to help people, at least not all of them. I couldn't care less about the adults. But the children are not getting even close to a fair shake from their parents nor the leaders of this "church".
And for the record, I am not religious at all. I think God is inside of you, and it's who is talking to you when your conscience speaks up. But to each his/her own. Believe in what you want however you want. Don't care, it's a free country.
But its not a free country for these kids. And it should be. Not hate. Simply think they should not be forced (through coercion) to accept one type of life.
And I readily admit - I am not trying to help people, at least not all of them. I couldn't care less about the adults. But the children are not getting even close to a fair shake from their parents nor the leaders of this "church".
And for the record, I am not religious at all. I think God is inside of you, and it's who is talking to you when your conscience speaks up. But to each his/her own. Believe in what you want however you want. Don't care, it's a free country.
But its not a free country for these kids. And it should be. Not hate. Simply think they should not be forced (through coercion) to accept one type of life.
Edward | 3:53 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
Re; John P Lambert 2:46 I agree with you......
I have polygamist ancestors, and my very large family FROWN at the practice of polygamy... Nothing anyone wants to bring back into existence. Most everyone I know personally within the LDS church do not have polygamy ancestors, just a very small few. I think there was only 3% of the church in pioneer times that practiced...a small group.
Tigerlily must be FLDS to make such a ignorant statement. She's got her information from the wrong sources.
I have polygamist ancestors, and my very large family FROWN at the practice of polygamy... Nothing anyone wants to bring back into existence. Most everyone I know personally within the LDS church do not have polygamy ancestors, just a very small few. I think there was only 3% of the church in pioneer times that practiced...a small group.
Tigerlily must be FLDS to make such a ignorant statement. She's got her information from the wrong sources.
zxcvbnm | 6:22 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
Yes RC......your posts have been clear and concise. Clear and concise babble that has a habit of beating the same drum with the same worn out sticks.
At every turn you make accusations that have proven false. Your whineing about lack of education has been answered repeatedly by members of the flds as have other accusations, yet you continue with the babble.
Flora and the cult commandos do much the same and with the identical tactics.
So I will answer with humor because rather than laughing directly at you perhaps others will get a kick out of laughing at twisted reality and might see some similarities in the means used by CPS to twist words.
So........go call the chicken police.....the boy is breaking the law. But watch where you step because the kid might defend his coop with force. I hear he has an arsenal of spitballs ready for the next intruders.
Jasper | 6:35 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
Pray tell me?---- I must have missed the boat on this one, but what is a
tigerlily? Does it have stripes? Or does it snarl like ferocious cat.
realitycheck | 7:23 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
zxcvbnm 6:22pm
babble? if its just babble to you, then you need to brush up on your comprehension skills.
and I'm not aware of anything I've stated as fact that was untrue. You simply don't lke my opinion. And that's ok. Most FLDS don't like my opinion.
but anyone that cares about children and believes in freedom certainly understands what I am saying. I wish you did.
but hey - it's a free country... for some.
babble? if its just babble to you, then you need to brush up on your comprehension skills.
and I'm not aware of anything I've stated as fact that was untrue. You simply don't lke my opinion. And that's ok. Most FLDS don't like my opinion.
but anyone that cares about children and believes in freedom certainly understands what I am saying. I wish you did.
but hey - it's a free country... for some.
Oregonian | 7:58 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
zx
You are doing a great job of putting this mess in proper prospective.
You are doing a great job of putting this mess in proper prospective.
zxcvbnm | 9:02 p.m. Aug. 26, 2008
Here's some reality for you RC..........The US 5th Circuit Court has just clipped the wings of CPS.
The new CPS spokesman is eating crow and agrees that the 5th circuits ruleing was necessary.
Read for yourself in the Houston Chronicle.
No more blanket removal of children .........CPS employees can be held accountable for their actions .....read it and weep.
This will be the last time we see Voss and her coffee charged chronies get away with seeing things that aren't there.
realitycheck | 8:47 a.m. Aug. 27, 2008
well, at least I comprehend what you are saying. And I never said Texas went
about it right. Nor did I ever say that my complaint with FLDS was a legal one.
It's a moral and ethical issue of a child's civil rights.
But since you can't comprehend what I am saying, it makes sense that you would address a comment to me that has absolutely nothing to do with what I've been saying.
and I'm glad they made some changes at CPS. They were sorely needed.
unfortunately, that does nothing to fix the real problem, which, in my opinion, is the lack of any kind of future for the children. Doomed to be mini-me's, making babies and working construction.
Perhaps if they were allowed to read books...
But since you can't comprehend what I am saying, it makes sense that you would address a comment to me that has absolutely nothing to do with what I've been saying.
and I'm glad they made some changes at CPS. They were sorely needed.
unfortunately, that does nothing to fix the real problem, which, in my opinion, is the lack of any kind of future for the children. Doomed to be mini-me's, making babies and working construction.
Perhaps if they were allowed to read books...
zxcvbnm | 9:51 a.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Every parent in this country has the right to raise their children as they see fit. The parents can censor reading material, censor the TV (the V chip works) , remove the TV. Heck....they can even forbid dogs.
Parents can educate their own children if they wish. The concept of assimilation into a larger society and what we call socialisation has been shot down by the courts long ago.
I know that the Jeffs dynasty has pushed the envelope of "rights" but the 5th circuit has stopped the CPS from running roughshod over the rights of parents and the freedom of children.
It may be to late for flds to take advantage of the ruling but hey.........a moral victory is good enough for now.
zxcvbnm | 10:53 a.m. Aug. 27, 2008
BTW RC.....I'm not FLDS. I am Just a good ole Catholic boy, educated by nuns.
I follow an ex-hitler youth guy that wears a beanie or a pointed hat with his dress.
I'm kinda familiar with Texas justice since my ancestors cane to this state when it was still a Republic and have suffered at the hands of the Texas Rangers on more than one occasion.
Several guys were even murdered by the rangers for refusing to support slavery.
You see.....Texas has a habit of supressing the rights of minority religious groups and minority groups in general that goes back a bit longer than 2008.
Just ask the twenty convicted murderers released in Tarrant county which minority group they belong to.
So RC..wrap yourself in the arms of your own children and worry about their upbringing and perhaps the innocent victims of Texas injustice will forgive you. I hear the count of innocent children is 160 and counting.
realitycheck | 10:53 a.m. Aug. 27, 2008
zxcvbnm:
I didn't ask you what is legal. I know the law. Take off your CPS hater hat for a minute.
My question is - is what the FLDS do to their children morally and ethically fair to the children.
I say it's not even close to fair. And you keep parroting the law. And yet I am interested in your opinion, so let's try one more time....
I'll ask it in plain english and will assume that you're not ESL:
do you think it's fair for the children to be totally isolated from the world, not have an understanding of the life choices available, not understand how the world works, and not be able to choose a future career or anything else?
Think about it before you answer, and keep in mind that there are millions of things one can do in life and an FLDS child will grow up to do very few of them (mostly because they won't even know that they exist).
A simple yes or no will do, or you can elaborate, but please don't quote some statute, nor some scripture. I just want your opinion on this particular topic. Thanks.
I didn't ask you what is legal. I know the law. Take off your CPS hater hat for a minute.
My question is - is what the FLDS do to their children morally and ethically fair to the children.
I say it's not even close to fair. And you keep parroting the law. And yet I am interested in your opinion, so let's try one more time....
I'll ask it in plain english and will assume that you're not ESL:
do you think it's fair for the children to be totally isolated from the world, not have an understanding of the life choices available, not understand how the world works, and not be able to choose a future career or anything else?
Think about it before you answer, and keep in mind that there are millions of things one can do in life and an FLDS child will grow up to do very few of them (mostly because they won't even know that they exist).
A simple yes or no will do, or you can elaborate, but please don't quote some statute, nor some scripture. I just want your opinion on this particular topic. Thanks.
Hmmmmm!!!!! | 1:41 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Joey | 9:00 a.m. Aug. 25, 2008
No child is better off in foster care. The foster care industry should be abolished. Children are four times more likely to be raped or killed in foster care than in their own homes (Wikipedia). The industry currently self-sustains itself by seeking more and more victims, and it does so by lowering the threshold of "risk" the children would be in if allowed to remain with their parents. CPS uses a very low threshold of risk, and gets a court to order children like this girl taken from their loving homes, "just to be safe" since the evidence usually is highly questionable. Meanwhile families are devastated. It's tyranny and opression, all government sanctioned.
This rings so loud and true--Please people, look beyond your jealousies and pride and do something about the children in the foster care system. There are thousands of children truely suffering at the hands of the great Government of the United States of America!! While they (the government) are showing a rightous air and going after other governments for far less crimes than they themselves are committing!!!!
No child is better off in foster care. The foster care industry should be abolished. Children are four times more likely to be raped or killed in foster care than in their own homes (Wikipedia). The industry currently self-sustains itself by seeking more and more victims, and it does so by lowering the threshold of "risk" the children would be in if allowed to remain with their parents. CPS uses a very low threshold of risk, and gets a court to order children like this girl taken from their loving homes, "just to be safe" since the evidence usually is highly questionable. Meanwhile families are devastated. It's tyranny and opression, all government sanctioned.
This rings so loud and true--Please people, look beyond your jealousies and pride and do something about the children in the foster care system. There are thousands of children truely suffering at the hands of the great Government of the United States of America!! While they (the government) are showing a rightous air and going after other governments for far less crimes than they themselves are committing!!!!
Hmmmmm!!!!! | 1:46 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
It's amazing that even now President Bush still has not had anything to say
about this great atrocity of human rights violations on American soil!!!!
What a wimp!!!!
What a wimp!!!!
J-man | 2:23 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
To Hmmmmm!!!! 1:46
While we are talking about wimps, let's mention Merril Jessop too. He was the ringleader of the FLDS circus in Texas. He is the one who married off his 12 y/o daughter to Warren Jeffs. He is the one who has abandoned his family and followers to avoid prosecution and is lurking in the shadows...
While we are talking about wimps, let's mention Merril Jessop too. He was the ringleader of the FLDS circus in Texas. He is the one who married off his 12 y/o daughter to Warren Jeffs. He is the one who has abandoned his family and followers to avoid prosecution and is lurking in the shadows...
SLIPPERY-SLOPE | 2:29 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
=
LIST EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE FUNDAMENTALLY (A) BASIC, (B) INTERMEDIARY, AND (C) ADVANCED
HUMAN RIGHTS:
(X) FOR MEN
(X) FOR WOMAN
(X) CHILDREN
Signed: Reckips.
=
LIST EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE FUNDAMENTALLY (A) BASIC, (B) INTERMEDIARY, AND (C) ADVANCED
HUMAN RIGHTS:
(X) FOR MEN
(X) FOR WOMAN
(X) CHILDREN
Signed: Reckips.
=
realitycheck | 2:31 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
re Hmmmmmm!!!! 1:46pm
I firmly agree!! Unfortunately, the FLDS parents hide behind the law and continue to violate the children's rights. There's really not much that can be done. The drone machine will continue until someone smart enough in the FLDS opens their eyes and stops the isolation and ridiculous restrictions on books, education, etc. Unfortunately, that may never happen, because the current regime does it's best to ensure the FLDS populations stays ignorant. So it's probable that they will never raise anyone smart enough to see the forest for the trees.
but good input. Thanks!!
I firmly agree!! Unfortunately, the FLDS parents hide behind the law and continue to violate the children's rights. There's really not much that can be done. The drone machine will continue until someone smart enough in the FLDS opens their eyes and stops the isolation and ridiculous restrictions on books, education, etc. Unfortunately, that may never happen, because the current regime does it's best to ensure the FLDS populations stays ignorant. So it's probable that they will never raise anyone smart enough to see the forest for the trees.
but good input. Thanks!!
Sniff them out... | 3:43 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
How come there are so many, many more Females in the FLDS cult than there are
men? Where are the men and boys???? Something doesn't smell right about
this whole FLDS cult.
Looks more and more like a NAZI compound to me.
Looks more and more like a NAZI compound to me.
zxcvbnm | 4:33 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Well RC, since I do not believe most of the accusations against the FLDS I believe they have the same rights as any parent in this country to raise their children as they see fit.
What you call brainwashing I do not believe is brainwashing. What you call abuse I believe are extreme statements.
THe FLDS can raise their children as they see fit.
BTW......14 more kids have been freed from CPS supervision.
As far as me being a CPS hater....I wear that badge with pride. Until the CPS uses humain tactics and stays within the law I will hate their overreactions with a passion.
Looks like I have the 5th Circuit Court and the Tx Supreme Court are in my corner.
A rogue state agency has to be controled by someone and the last thing they need are tanks.
realitycheck | 5:09 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
well, zxcvbnm - you certainly evaded the question. Is it really that
difficult?
did you really not understand the question? or were you, in a very round-about way, trying to say that it is fair for the children?
actually you didn't answer the question at all. Not even in a round-about way.
Are you sure you're not FLDS? Or CPS? Both are very good at evading simple questions.
And that's too bad, since I was actually looking forward to your answer.
btw - I really don't know what you mean by you "don't believe most of the accusations against the FLDS". Didn't know I had made any that they don't feely admit. Nearly all books are banned. No clear understanding of the world is taught. Higher education is not promoted, and is in fact discouraged. The FLDS high school, if there is one, certainly doesn't have a career day. No social skills are provided since they aren't required in the little FLDS circle.
Not sure why this is so difficult for you, and why you have to keep parroting "parents have a right to raise their children as they see fit". That wasn't even the question.
did you really not understand the question? or were you, in a very round-about way, trying to say that it is fair for the children?
actually you didn't answer the question at all. Not even in a round-about way.
Are you sure you're not FLDS? Or CPS? Both are very good at evading simple questions.
And that's too bad, since I was actually looking forward to your answer.
btw - I really don't know what you mean by you "don't believe most of the accusations against the FLDS". Didn't know I had made any that they don't feely admit. Nearly all books are banned. No clear understanding of the world is taught. Higher education is not promoted, and is in fact discouraged. The FLDS high school, if there is one, certainly doesn't have a career day. No social skills are provided since they aren't required in the little FLDS circle.
Not sure why this is so difficult for you, and why you have to keep parroting "parents have a right to raise their children as they see fit". That wasn't even the question.
zxcvbnm | 8:07 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
Tell ya what RC.....if ya don't get it then ya just don't get it.
I am not exactly thrilled with the 12 year old "spiritual union thing" but since Jeffs is in jail and flds has banned "spiritual unions"and or marraiges at least till the kid is 16 , with parental permission, the point is rather moot.
I could care less if the only book they are given to read is the bible. I really don't have a problem with the no dog issue. If they are educated to believe that Santa is a communist or that the easter bunny is a pervert it is no business of mine or yours.
If they never go to college they can compete for jobs with the illegals in the building industry and the girls can make babies till the sun doesn't shine, provided they are of consenting age.
Those people can sit on that ranch, make all the cheese they want to, teach every kid on the place to milk a cow and live happily ever after.
Since they don't believe that man landed on the moon they don't have to worry about the competition from the green cheese fanatics.
CHANGE | 10:05 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
re Zxcvbnm
You forgot one thing and that is letting these kids also "CHOOSE" who they want to marry--like someone close to their own age. NO MORE OLD STINKING, GEEZER MARRIAGES! People are much happy to have someone they pick to love who has as much vitality and as youthful as them in a marriage--- Not OLD dirty dish water grime.
You forgot one thing and that is letting these kids also "CHOOSE" who they want to marry--like someone close to their own age. NO MORE OLD STINKING, GEEZER MARRIAGES! People are much happy to have someone they pick to love who has as much vitality and as youthful as them in a marriage--- Not OLD dirty dish water grime.
realitycheck | 10:41 p.m. Aug. 27, 2008
zxcvbnm 8:07pm
now THAT was an answer I can understand. It's obvious from your comment that you wouldn't want to be FLDS. And it's plain from your wording that you believe children raised in that way are extremely limited in their choices. And I get your humor this time!
I have also agreed with you that Texas couldn't have done a worse bungling job on this whole thing. But that doesn't bother me nearly as much as the children's lack of opportunity. Whereas it bothers significantly.
So we agree on the issues, and actually the only thing we differ on is which issue to be passionate about. You and your Texas/CPS and me with the drone children.
now THAT was an answer I can understand. It's obvious from your comment that you wouldn't want to be FLDS. And it's plain from your wording that you believe children raised in that way are extremely limited in their choices. And I get your humor this time!
I have also agreed with you that Texas couldn't have done a worse bungling job on this whole thing. But that doesn't bother me nearly as much as the children's lack of opportunity. Whereas it bothers significantly.
So we agree on the issues, and actually the only thing we differ on is which issue to be passionate about. You and your Texas/CPS and me with the drone children.
zxcvbnm | 12:50 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008
oh RC.........I do not see the children as drones.
I see the children as being raised by loving parents whos' main concern is the respect for and the worship of their God. The put the priority of their religious views and the teaching of their views as their first priority.
Should the kids disagree with the parents rules and the strict religious upbringing they sprout wings and fly.......
The fact that the kids enter a foreign world or
experience a culture shock is their choice.
The fact that Carolyn and Flora rejected their upbringing and chose to attack those that they disagree with makes great press but they have managed to make a living out of their demonizing innocent people.
It may have taken Carolyn 18 years to jump ship and Flora split when she was 18 but to blame others for holding them back is childish on their part.
The drama sells.....reality is boring.
I see the children as being raised by loving parents whos' main concern is the respect for and the worship of their God. The put the priority of their religious views and the teaching of their views as their first priority.
Should the kids disagree with the parents rules and the strict religious upbringing they sprout wings and fly.......
The fact that the kids enter a foreign world or
experience a culture shock is their choice.
The fact that Carolyn and Flora rejected their upbringing and chose to attack those that they disagree with makes great press but they have managed to make a living out of their demonizing innocent people.
It may have taken Carolyn 18 years to jump ship and Flora split when she was 18 but to blame others for holding them back is childish on their part.
The drama sells.....reality is boring.
!Sweet Wives and Daughters? | 2:23 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008
I think it's horrible to have more than one wife, but if it's
consenting adults, I don't see much difference that what goes on in all of
society: adultery, divorce, births out of wedlock.
Where I have a problem, and where this article UNFAIRLY plays on our sympathies, is the fact that the polygamy here is NOT among consenting adults. It is among pre-pubescent or barely pubescent CHILDREN. That is sick and wrong, I don't care how much they "love" each other!
These folks may have familial love that is admirable, but the practice of wedding pre-adult girls to men is abhorrent and needs to be addressed in an article such as this one. All this one does is make us thing, "oh, look at this poor, sweet loving family. They have to live apart and be away from each other. And they all KNIT and BAKE fresh bread!" Instead of, "Oh, look at these sweet people who are indoctrinated to marry off their 12-year-old daughers to have sex with men in their 40's. That's right! That 14-year-old girl's rights to an innocent childhood should be protected!"
Where I have a problem, and where this article UNFAIRLY plays on our sympathies, is the fact that the polygamy here is NOT among consenting adults. It is among pre-pubescent or barely pubescent CHILDREN. That is sick and wrong, I don't care how much they "love" each other!
These folks may have familial love that is admirable, but the practice of wedding pre-adult girls to men is abhorrent and needs to be addressed in an article such as this one. All this one does is make us thing, "oh, look at this poor, sweet loving family. They have to live apart and be away from each other. And they all KNIT and BAKE fresh bread!" Instead of, "Oh, look at these sweet people who are indoctrinated to marry off their 12-year-old daughers to have sex with men in their 40's. That's right! That 14-year-old girl's rights to an innocent childhood should be protected!"
Ron | 8:32 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008
Some people need to grow up in their thinking. Please quit with all the
perversion talk! Our world doesn't need to decline because of you, who
cannot control your lustful behaviors and controlled sex.... Get a life!
realitycheck | 11:09 a.m. Aug. 28, 2008
zxcvbnm -
I disagree with most of what you said.
But I do agree with your statement "They put the priority of their religious views and the teaching of their views as their first priority".
They put their religion and their church above all else, including their family. Sad for family to be second on the priority list.
I strongly disagree with the statement "the fact that the kids enter a foreign world or experience a culture shock is their choice". Actually, it's not a matter of choice - it's a matter of fault. Anyone with half a brain is going to want to leave. The fact that they enter a foreign world or experience a culture shock is the fault of the parents.
But you are right about one thing. The smart ones will leave and the stupid ones will stay, so the parents are in fact doing us a favor by keeping idiots out of the general population. We should be thankful rather than complaining.
I disagree with most of what you said.
But I do agree with your statement "They put the priority of their religious views and the teaching of their views as their first priority".
They put their religion and their church above all else, including their family. Sad for family to be second on the priority list.
I strongly disagree with the statement "the fact that the kids enter a foreign world or experience a culture shock is their choice". Actually, it's not a matter of choice - it's a matter of fault. Anyone with half a brain is going to want to leave. The fact that they enter a foreign world or experience a culture shock is the fault of the parents.
But you are right about one thing. The smart ones will leave and the stupid ones will stay, so the parents are in fact doing us a favor by keeping idiots out of the general population. We should be thankful rather than complaining.
Anonymous | 11:54 a.m. Aug. 29, 2008
....culture shock happens with students that come from emerging third world countries....If anti-polygamy is so concernced about culture shock, then they should start denouncing the disparities of educational systems between nations, countries, or the grand illusions of progress towards parity.
wilsok | 1:47 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008
Freedom of Religion in America- not the issue- go worship a rock, who cares?
It's the kids that matter, no-one (even God? Where did Christ ever say
it's ok to marry little girls??) can or should condone their (FLDS)
behavior.
BTW- they started calling themselves F-LDS only a few years ago. Why?
Another point: where LDS and FLDS are sort of alike, God's law overrules man's law anytime, so when LDS gave up polygamy (which may have been needful at the time)it wasn't because man told them to, it was because God told them to, or they would have never gave in. So- if God was talking to LDS- then those FLDS hiding in the desert weren't listening. SO God's chosen people have to hide and lie, cheat, steal, hate, etc? Where did this Jeff dude come from anyway? Dictators control information, and wipe out opposition. Oh well. Two cents worth. Maybe three.
BTW- they started calling themselves F-LDS only a few years ago. Why?
Another point: where LDS and FLDS are sort of alike, God's law overrules man's law anytime, so when LDS gave up polygamy (which may have been needful at the time)it wasn't because man told them to, it was because God told them to, or they would have never gave in. So- if God was talking to LDS- then those FLDS hiding in the desert weren't listening. SO God's chosen people have to hide and lie, cheat, steal, hate, etc? Where did this Jeff dude come from anyway? Dictators control information, and wipe out opposition. Oh well. Two cents worth. Maybe three.
zxcvbnm | 2:17 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008
Re Wilsok: Check out the historical data concerning Mary the mother of the Son of God.
Check out the biblical references to the marraige age for persons.
You may open your eyes a bit. The fundamentalist versions of many religions and literal translation groups even point to pologamy as being sanctioned by God.
Yep......this is about religion......21st century modern religion and government vs 19th century and old testament religion with a little pre 1978 Book of Mormon thrown in for a wildcard.
realitycheck | 3:33 p.m. Aug. 29, 2008
like I said - they're doing us a favor by keeping single-strand DNA kids
out in the cornfield and away from the general population. that's a good
thing. Can you imagine how screwed up we'd be if they started mixing
their DNA with regular people?
If you think the gov't is stupid now....
If you think the gov't is stupid now....
Aghast | 3:17 a.m. Sept. 1, 2008
I do not understand how these communities have been permitted to continue. How
is it that we, in th US, cannot figure out that there are so many polygamous
communties in existance? Why is child marriage ever considered areligious
freedom and not statutory rape? For these communtities to have grown to the
size and number that they have, people at the state levels in Arixona, Utah and
Texas (and, most likely, many other states)must have been turning a blind eye.
This is not acceptable, is an embarrasment to our country and a mockery of
religious freedom.
zxcvbnm | 6:57 a.m. Sept. 1, 2008
Religious freedom is a cornerstone of of our constitution and the regulation of religious freedom is an embarassment to our government.
Arizonza didn't learn its lesson in 1953 and a country of full of men who had just fought the Nazies thought the government over reacted.
Now in 2008 Texas looks like the bully. Government is the embarassment not the polygamists.
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To trivialize being raped by people in foster care is an outrage. This would not be statutory rape, it would be an act of brute force by a male who only wants sex and may even want it as a means to demean the female.
I wonder why reality check hates the FLDS so much. Him, and some of the other extreme haters make me wonder if some people have alterior agendas. I think some, but not all by any means, of the FLDS haters want to use this incident to attack other groups.
In fact I have seen places where people openly admit their real goal is to attack the LDS Church, and some people have actually used the FLDS situation as a club to hit Romney.
I think people who just hate all FLDS should stop lieing and say they are trying to help people, especially if they think it is ok to be raped in foster care.